Mountain Mafia [END]

[Elohcin]

I need some feesback on my thoughts of dunya. What are y'all thinking?

[Long Con]

The issue I'm running into is that at this point I suspect both dunya and jack, but they can't both be bad, dunya is voting for Jack, Jack is being irregularly difficult at all times.

I'd be up for a dunya lynch. I keep having this nagging voice in the back of my head that says, "She's bad, Tasha. B. A. D." But part of me feels bad because she does aeem to be really on top of things and very helpful, especially for a replacement.

There are a number of people doing fuck all, and people seriously want to lynch someone who, in my opinion, breathed life into a stagnant thread?

If Dunya is bad, let her keep talking.

Regardless of his alignment, I respect a guy who takes a principled stance and refuses to answer a question in good conscience.

So I'll take this stance:

I'm not voting for Jack today. Four mafia out there. Jack may well be one, but I'm not voting for him today. Maybe tomorrow if the fancy strikes. I don't believe anybody will believe we're teammates even if he is bad, so I don't even care on that front.

This almost had me voting for Dom, then,

The issue I'm running into is that at this point I suspect both dunya and jack, but they can't both be bad, dunya is voting for Jack, Jack is being irregularly difficult at all times.

I'd be up for a dunya lynch. I keep having this nagging voice in the back of my head that says, "She's bad, Tasha. B. A. D." But part of me feels bad because she does aeem to be really on top of things and very helpful, especially for a replacement.

There are a number of people doing fuck all, and people seriously want to lynch someone who, in my opinion, breathed life into a stagnant thread?

I like the sound of that.

[colonialbob]

Oh my word, in this back and forth with Kyle I am feeling like Jack's tone is very sincere... this is why this extended Day 1 situation is bad for me, the more stuff thrown at me the more indecisive I feel... I'll re-evaluate when I get home later tonight. I may change my vote.

I like Kyle less and Jack more in reading this argument.

Wow this game exploded tonight, gotta catch up.

Sorry to be that guy but yeah totally this. Kyle's push on Jack is weird. Like why is it so important for Jack to answer that question if it's a purely mechanical question?

I've already explained this, but I wasn't pushing on Jack to roleclaim, I was pushing on Jack cus he appeared to be refusing to discuss the events of day 2 with me on any level even hypothetical

But why was it so important that Jack answer those questions vs anybody else?

[Elohcin]

I'm done listening to Jack and Dunya. You two hit the showers. I want people talking about other people.

Who do you want to talk about?

I don't want to talk about anyone. I want people talking about other people:

"Jack and Dunya are dead. Who gets your vote and why?"

How did they flip?

Speedchuck or Kyle.

I'd do chuck. But Inthink kyle is good.

[Kylemii]

But why was it so important that Jack answer those questions vs anybody else?

Why would anyone other than Jack know if Jack was lying?

[Kylemii]

But why was it so important that Jack answer those questions vs anybody else?

Why would anyone other than Jack know if Jack was lying?

............. oh my god. I see your point now actually.

[colonialbob]

But why was it so important that Jack answer those questions vs anybody else?

Why would anyone other than Jack know if Jack was lying?

How can Jack lie about a hypothetical?

[Jackofhearts2005]

"Jack and Dunya are dead."

I'm not even mad.

It's a fair prediction.

[Kylemii]

But why was it so important that Jack answer those questions vs anybody else?

Why would anyone other than Jack know if Jack was lying?

How can Jack lie about a hypothetical?

what

the theory I was asking jack about was that Jack used Sloonei's "this is a wasted lynch" to his advantage by also making a hint that he'd survive, but later.

lie hypothetically isn't the same as hypothetically lie

[speedchuck]

@speedchuck, not that it makes a huge difference, but I am actually a "she". Going through your post now.

I knew that. I say it under your avatar and made note of it. And then it completely slipped past me.

@Quin That's an interesting vote on a player I have trouble reading most of the time. Can I get a summary of why?

I've had success reading her in the past. This doesn't feel like good Eloh.

I don't think she's following through on her cases in the way a civilian would. She'll say that something is suspicious and that'll be the end of it, like she's rejecting any attempt to change her mind. She's done that with me and LC in this game.

I don't believe in her rainbow list because I don't see how Lasagne could be one of anybody's top town reads. She mentioned genuinity in her posts, with Lasagne only having one, maybe two posts of workable content. The rest is, as I said before, mainly "I'm here!" posts.

Assuming that's Mesk you are talking about, I will believe Mesk is civilian before I believe 50% of the rest of the crowd is, including you.

It was Eloh at the time

[speedchuck]

Wait, no, got confused. I should catch up

[Elohcin]

Alright...i can't stay up any longer. Time to vote..

[Quin]

No, Lasagne is Mesk.

[Kylemii]

but asking jack the questions directly was obviously dumb, he'd either lie as a baddie or stick to his non claim thing as a civ

[colonialbob]

But why was it so important that Jack answer those questions vs anybody else?

Why would anyone other than Jack know if Jack was lying?

How can Jack lie about a hypothetical?

what

the theory I was asking jack about was that Jack used Sloonei's "this is a wasted lynch" to his advantage by also making a hint that he'd survive, but later.

lie hypothetically isn't the same as hypothetically lie

what

that was not how I understood your line of questioning *at all*

[Epignosis]

You're rejecting perceptions before easing concerns. You're saying "I wasn't an active force in Pirates" when you should be saying "I'm actually not someone who takes the front line" if what they're saying is false about your playstyle.

Well.... The thing is, I don't really know what I'm like yet.

I'm still in the process of rebuilding and understanding my own meta.

I could tell you how I used to play before I left RM two years ago, I could tell you about how I'd focus so much on mafia that I'd get really burnt out on it and disappear for days at a time and miss votes and sometimes forget to send in night actions. I could tell you how I played before the exodus that happened before that one when I had seemingly boundless energy and consistently made 2x as many posts as anyone else in many of the threads.

None of those are me anymore. Playing the way I used to made me tired and anxious all the time, so I'm making a conscious effort this time around to adjust my meta to be less toxic.

I'm not interested in what Kylemii did in this game or that or what he usually does here or there. What is he doing here, independently of those other places, that makes you think good or ill of him? That question goes for anyone with an opinion.

[Epignosis]

The issue I'm running into is that at this point I suspect both dunya and jack, but they can't both be bad, dunya is voting for Jack, Jack is being irregularly difficult at all times.

I'd be up for a dunya lynch. I keep having this nagging voice in the back of my head that says, "She's bad, Tasha. B. A. D." But part of me feels bad because she does aeem to be really on top of things and very helpful, especially for a replacement.

There are a number of people doing fuck all, and people seriously want to lynch someone who, in my opinion, breathed life into a stagnant thread?

If Dunya is bad, let her keep talking.

Regardless of his alignment, I respect a guy who takes a principled stance and refuses to answer a question in good conscience.

So I'll take this stance:

I'm not voting for Jack today. Four mafia out there. Jack may well be one, but I'm not voting for him today. Maybe tomorrow if the fancy strikes. I don't believe anybody will believe we're teammates even if he is bad, so I don't even care on that front.

This almost had me voting for Dom, then,

The issue I'm running into is that at this point I suspect both dunya and jack, but they can't both be bad, dunya is voting for Jack, Jack is being irregularly difficult at all times.

I'd be up for a dunya lynch. I keep having this nagging voice in the back of my head that says, "She's bad, Tasha. B. A. D." But part of me feels bad because she does aeem to be really on top of things and very helpful, especially for a replacement.

There are a number of people doing fuck all, and people seriously want to lynch someone who, in my opinion, breathed life into a stagnant thread?

I like the sound of that.

I buy that.

[Elohcin]

I want to know your reason for voting dom, epi.

[Elohcin]

I placed a vote on chuck. I wish thenlynch wasn't ao late. Don't tie tgis up guys.

[colonialbob]

I'm not interested in what Kylemii did in this game or that or what he usually does here or there. What is he doing here, independently of those other places, that makes you think good or ill of him? That question goes for anyone with an opinion.

General impression: he's floating without engaging much, throwing out content without taking strong stances
Recently, his push on Jack is weird and I don't like it. But I also didn't like him earlier for saying Jack was confirmed town. Distancing maneuver? Need to chew on that a bit.

[Elohcin]

And before y'all ask...I didn't go with aloonei b/c epi has me not second guessing my read, but second guessing if I'm right because I don't know why he survived before.

[Elohcin]

[Kylemii]

I'm not interested in what Kylemii did in this game or that or what he usually does here or there. What is he doing here, independently of those other places, that makes you think good or ill of him? That question goes for anyone with an opinion.

I am Kyle.

[speedchuck]

I'm caught up and am not sure what to do

linki: gnight Eloh.

[colonialbob]

Sidenote - I'm starting to struggle because I don't have anything firm to anchor my reads to. A lot of my style is based on votes and vote trains, and those aren't very helpful so far. Especially with no flips.

[Kylemii]

I'm not interested in what Kylemii did in this game or that or what he usually does here or there. What is he doing here, independently of those other places, that makes you think good or ill of him? That question goes for anyone with an opinion.

General impression: he's floating without engaging much, throwing out content without taking strong stances
Recently, his push on Jack is weird and I don't like it. But I also didn't like him earlier for saying Jack was confirmed town. Distancing maneuver? Need to chew on that a bit.

I didn't say Jack was confirmed town I was asking about it.

[speedchuck]

I'ma vote Dom in hopes to save Jack. I know it's not original, but I like his tone lately, and I hope that I'm not just feeling for him because other players keep badgering him.

Even if a player doesn't answer a question, so long as they address it, move on. Don't keep arguing that they SHOULD answer when they've given their reasoning on the subject. Pah.

linki: I totally get you Cbob. I tend to POE using alignment and vote analysis based on dead players. I can't read this 1.5 week D1 for crap.

[Epignosis]

I want to know your reason for voting dom, epi.

If any member of the mafia can submit the kill for the team, then I don't care about keeping inactives around when they aren't contributing. On one level, this is still Day 1 due to an inordinate number of survivals.

It is almost certain Dom will not survive a lynch, and therefore, it is less likely that Dom is a civilian.

[Kylemii]

Even if a player doesn't answer a question, so long as they address it, move on. Don't keep arguing that they SHOULD answer when they've given their reasoning on the subject. Pah.

I understand the sentiment you're going for here but Jack was addressing different questions from the ones I was actually asking.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm tired.

Vote Dom.

There's merit in letting Dunya have more time and I don't wanna die so much.

Plus, if we lynch one inactive and replace the other two, that's a full house.

[Epignosis]

I'd do chuck.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jack voters -- give me the most pertinent reasons you feel Jack should be lynched.

[colonialbob]

One thought I've just had: Jack is uber fucking annoying in this game. He keeps talking about me. All the time. Over and over. Flip-flopping, listing reasons why he thinks I'm bad yet not being sure of them, etc.

He is so obssessed with me it's making me read him as a civ. Because I think a baddie would have either succesfully lynched me or stopped caring. He keeps caring. He cares so hard I think he is legit.

Jack's done the same thing on me. I read this as much more scummy than townie.

Explain? You think he's forcing it?

I think he's flip flopping to be able to push on somebody who seems slightly bad but not be the one going after them. Look at his reads on me from d2 until today. Iirc he has me as a lean town, then Sloonei makes his case and he's all "yeah that's a good case," and I'm back to the bottom, then a few different people show up and say they see me as town and he bumps me back to the middle. He seems like he's following consensus instead of trying to create it. That's not the civ Jack I know.

This is the best quick explanation of why my vote is on him.

[speedchuck]

I'd do chuck.

Sorry it had to come out like this man.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Wih mesk still not around, I'm thinking she is civ. She isn't new to mafia even though she is new here. I don't think she qould abandon a btsc team. Of course, I could be wrong. There is always a chance she and dunya are bad. I know I have said this before. And dunya kind of eased my mind about it, but think...mesk hasn't been back. She doesn't know that dunya is here. What is mesk was all alone in btsc and decides to justbleave and now she has a strong teammate but doesn't know it. Gah.... I'm so indecisive.

I don't understand the connection being drawn here. In a hypothetical scenario wherein Mesk is a mafioso who has gone AWOL on her team, potential teammates of hers within the dynamic you've drawn could then be anyone low in activity who existed in this game prior to dunya's arrival (including but not necessarily dunya herself). What is the special relevance of dunya to your read on Mesk?

[Kylemii]

I read through Jack's responses to my onslaught of bullshit earlier and it occurs to me that there is a non-0 chance that maybe I was being the asshole in that situation??

With my head cleared now I can see that his answers are fairly clear and decisive and not as smug and evasive as I was viewing them to be.

Also i noticed how warm I am right now and i realized I haven't been drinking water today which is pretty much a don't do when you've been transformed into a fountain of mucus by the gods of pestilence. I think I let some of my dehydrated grumpiness leak into the thread and I apologize.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

(PS it's colonial, I'm not in the army or anything )

I know, but when I abbreviated you as Col. Bob a new name was born. Sir.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Wih mesk still not around, I'm thinking she is civ. She isn't new to mafia even though she is new here. I don't think she qould abandon a btsc team. Of course, I could be wrong. There is always a chance she and dunya are bad. I know I have said this before. And dunya kind of eased my mind about it, but think...mesk hasn't been back. She doesn't know that dunya is here. What is mesk was all alone in btsc and decides to justbleave and now she has a strong teammate but doesn't know it. Gah.... I'm so indecisive.

I don't understand the connection being drawn here. In a hypothetical scenario wherein Mesk is a mafioso who has gone AWOL on her team, potential teammates of hers within the dynamic you've drawn could then be anyone low in activity who existed in this game prior to dunya's arrival (including but not necessarily dunya herself). What is the special relevance of dunya to your read on Mesk?

It makes it more ironic.

[Long Con]

I read through Jack's responses to my onslaught of bullshit earlier and it occurs to me that there is a non-0 chance that maybe I was being the asshole in that situation??

With my head cleared now I can see that his answers are fairly clear and decisive and not as smug and evasive as I was viewing them to be.

Also i noticed how warm I am right now and i realized I haven't been drinking water today which is pretty much a don't do when you've been transformed into a fountain of mucus by the gods of pestilence. I think I let some of my dehydrated grumpiness leak into the thread and I apologize.

Ew.

[Long Con]

The issue I'm running into is that at this point I suspect both dunya and jack, but they can't both be bad, dunya is voting for Jack, Jack is being irregularly difficult at all times.

I'd be up for a dunya lynch. I keep having this nagging voice in the back of my head that says, "She's bad, Tasha. B. A. D." But part of me feels bad because she does aeem to be really on top of things and very helpful, especially for a replacement.

There are a number of people doing fuck all, and people seriously want to lynch someone who, in my opinion, breathed life into a stagnant thread?

If Dunya is bad, let her keep talking.

Regardless of his alignment, I respect a guy who takes a principled stance and refuses to answer a question in good conscience.

So I'll take this stance:

I'm not voting for Jack today. Four mafia out there. Jack may well be one, but I'm not voting for him today. Maybe tomorrow if the fancy strikes. I don't believe anybody will believe we're teammates even if he is bad, so I don't even care on that front.

This almost had me voting for Dom, then,

The issue I'm running into is that at this point I suspect both dunya and jack, but they can't both be bad, dunya is voting for Jack, Jack is being irregularly difficult at all times.

I'd be up for a dunya lynch. I keep having this nagging voice in the back of my head that says, "She's bad, Tasha. B. A. D." But part of me feels bad because she does aeem to be really on top of things and very helpful, especially for a replacement.

There are a number of people doing fuck all, and people seriously want to lynch someone who, in my opinion, breathed life into a stagnant thread?

I like the sound of that.

I buy that.

That is not all that surprising.

[Epignosis]

Here's a fun fact from JJJ's chart. Or a few fun facts, really.

JJJ replaced MP, who did nothing.

Dunya replaced sprityo, who was suspected, but really did nothing.

Seven of eight people called JJJ good.

Two of eight people called Dunya good.

I am far more inclined to believe that Dunya is good over 3J based on content alone.

[Epignosis]

That is not all that surprising.

I don't care about surprising you.

[Epignosis]

I care about getting you to make good decisions.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

this is not a post indicative on how I personally feel about sig and speedchuck at this time but

sig as a civilian pirate was more engaged and effortful in the high-octane Day 1 aboard the pirate ship than he was in this high-octane Day 1. Bad vibes.

Yeah, but Day 1 was over Thanksgiving holidays wasn't it?

speedchuck was willing to engage suspects pointedly, and he cut down his suspect pool with transparent civilian reads (or at least pledges not to lynch). I also like the tone he exhibited in his handling of the Epi/LC feud. Good vibes.

You reference the pirate game to give a meta based read on sig, but what about speedchuck's general aura in the beginning of pirates game when he was throwing up statistics and reads? Yet one of those gave you good vibes and the other bad vibes.

Meta reads have their place, but they are usually not ideal as a sole means of drawing reads. There's an application for them with low-content players who haven't provided the material necessary to assess them in preferable ways, i.e. thorough analysis, tone reads, or face value judgments of civilian utility. At the time I answered that prompt, I think sig had like five or six posts. For me, that's not often enough to develop an intuition. I'm willing to draw a read from the tabletop crumbs when I must, and often that's a time for a meta read to have some value. When there's more content available, as there was with speedchuck in that moment, then a purely meta read means less to me. It can still be a *component*, but it's going to move me less than my intuited reception of content at face value.

[Kylemii]

Leaning towards voting for Dom, I don't want to lynch Jack. Not right now.

Dom and Mesk are pretty much in the same boat as far as participation goes. If one of them is likely to come back and post more it's probably Mesk.

[Kylemii]

i think we can probably do better though

[Epignosis]

this is not a post indicative on how I personally feel about sig and speedchuck at this time but

sig as a civilian pirate was more engaged and effortful in the high-octane Day 1 aboard the pirate ship than he was in this high-octane Day 1. Bad vibes.

Yeah, but Day 1 was over Thanksgiving holidays wasn't it?

speedchuck was willing to engage suspects pointedly, and he cut down his suspect pool with transparent civilian reads (or at least pledges not to lynch). I also like the tone he exhibited in his handling of the Epi/LC feud. Good vibes.

You reference the pirate game to give a meta based read on sig, but what about speedchuck's general aura in the beginning of pirates game when he was throwing up statistics and reads? Yet one of those gave you good vibes and the other bad vibes.

Meta reads have their place, but they are usually not ideal as a sole means of drawing reads. There's an application for them with low-content players who haven't provided the material necessary to assess them in preferable ways, i.e. thorough analysis, tone reads, or face value judgments of civilian utility. At the time I answered that prompt, I think sig had like five or six posts. For me, that's not often enough to develop an intuition. I'm willing to draw a read from the tabletop crumbs when I must, and often that's a time for a meta read to have some value. When there's more content available, as there was with speedchuck in that moment, then a purely meta read means less to me. It can still be a *component*, but it's going to move me less than my intuited reception of content at face value.

How about Dom? He's a great lynch, am I right?

[Epignosis]

As much as I believe Sloonei is a civilian, at this point, I find it bizarre that he is voting for Jack. I'm not going to rehash why. Use your clicker thingies if you need a reminder.

[Kylemii]

Ew.

where's the emote of someone sneezing forever

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well I liked this game.

Idk if it made me do better reads but it forced me to make a firm decision on several players. Felt the need to elaborate on Bob (poe/gut/no obvious pairing) and Eloh (feels real in spite of everything) in the moment but choose not to.

I'm following the progression of Jack's read on the Colonel, as the latter alluded to. He did move quickly from a bottom-tier mafia read to a GTH good read in quick succession. One question emerges here for [mention]colonialbob[/mention]:

In a world where Jack is mafia and you are a civilian, what is the mafia benefit Jack enjoys by reversing his perspective of you in the wake of the negative press you received in the night phase? In this scenario you ought to look like a juicy mislynch steak.