Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 13]

[Lunalee]

People: "wilgy is a bad vote for people scared to be held responsible"

Also people: "nah let's not vote for anybody on his wagon"

[VOTE: tranq] aubergine

still want juliets

This post is weird and I may be misunderstanding it. But is colonialbob saying people scared to be held responsible will vote off wagon? Then Sloonei quotes it, not only saying he's voting off wagon, but that he's not even voting for who he wants to vote for. If you're going to vote off wagon anyways, why not go for juliets?

[Lunalee]

I think we made the best decision I was able to come up with. That's all we can ask for in any lynch.

ew. Really don't like the vibe here.

[Sloonei]

People: "wilgy is a bad vote for people scared to be held responsible"

Also people: "nah let's not vote for anybody on his wagon"

[VOTE: tranq] aubergine

still want juliets

This post is weird and I may be misunderstanding it. But is colonialbob saying people scared to be held responsible will vote off wagon? Then Sloonei quotes it, not only saying he's voting off wagon, but that he's not even voting for who he wants to vote for. If you're going to vote off wagon anyways, why not go for juliets?

cbob was suggesting that we should vote for a player who was voting for wilgy at the time because a number of people were complaining that his wagon was shady and weak. Tranq was on the wagon and was a person who'd garnered a fair amount of suspicion.

Why'd you kill nutella?

[ColinIsCool]

I think we made the best decision I was able to come up with. That's all we can ask for in any lynch.

ew. Really don't like the vibe here.

He’s joking

[ColinIsCool]

I won’t be able to do the TH interactive analysis either but somebody should

[Lunalee]

People: "wilgy is a bad vote for people scared to be held responsible"

Also people: "nah let's not vote for anybody on his wagon"

[VOTE: tranq] aubergine

still want juliets

This post is weird and I may be misunderstanding it. But is colonialbob saying people scared to be held responsible will vote off wagon? Then Sloonei quotes it, not only saying he's voting off wagon, but that he's not even voting for who he wants to vote for. If you're going to vote off wagon anyways, why not go for juliets?

cbob was suggesting that we should vote for a player who was voting for wilgy at the time because a number of people were complaining that his wagon was shady and weak. Tranq was on the wagon and was a person who'd garnered a fair amount of suspicion.

Why'd you kill nutella?

I would like to look at Wolbre's wagon. That's a good place to start.

Nutella died? I haven't seen the end of night post.

[Lunalee]

Oh dang, TH was scum. Cool

[LoRab]

Sorry to see both LA and TH go as players. But as roles: RIP LA. And BIH TH.

Leaning towards a Wilgy vote at the moment. For his convenient pop up defense soon after the last day ended. And more recent denial of having known there was a need to defend.

[Enrique]

Most of her posts are just saying Sloon is town and the usual jokes. In Firefly she spent most of the game coming hard after our teammate Golden, which was hilarious. I think Sloon was probably a high-posting non-teammate that she tried to cling onto and win over so they could dominate the game later.

I *suspect* we're only looking at a teammate or two for TH. The roles don't have alignment marked but looking at them there's only a few that stand out as obviously bad and then you have to split them in at least two teams plus potential baddie-ish independents. There's a lot of secrets in the roles and it's an LC/BR game so there's probably opportunities for recruitment and all that (I don't have a better/precise analysis of the roles handy but that's what I thought when I was reading them earlier).

[Sloonei]

Examining kyle1002.

Lots of joke posts on Day 0.

Keep an eye on the folks who darted in here early and, in light of the D0 poll result, pooh-poohed ties on the lynch poll. It’s a subtle way to establish a preemptive cop-out for either train-hopping later (to show they stick to their convictions) or blame-shifting to set up fall guys who tie polls that result in mislynches.

Close lynches and ties (whether mid-phase or at EOD) are valuable sources of information. Granted, that information is best in hindsight after the herd has thinned some.

like

We may not know who is on the Tribunal but we’re starting out with more civs than baddies (unless this game is extra-double whacky) and there are also two baddie factions, so the odds are against Tribunal being filled with one baddie team.

what is tribunal?

"Likes" G-man's speculation about tie naysayers and doesn't know what the tribunal is. This post does nothing. What did you like about G-man's post, Kyle?

Yeah if someone votes to break ties that's also worth looking at but what I'm saying is if someone votes to cause a tie, and especially if that tie then breaks against whoever they voted for, that's a red flag for me

when did this start? was this always your opinion on ties? i don't remember this coming up before and i feel like it would have, cus i basically do that constantly

DH is talking about something specific to this game and kyle questions the history of it. I still can do nothing with this.

Actually, to be more clear, Luna's vote seems fine. I was trying to reference this POST of hers: "Sorry, but that is not a god reason to vote someone. Anything Jack has done this game to make you suspect him?"

I don't like when people try to make big deals out of anyone's day 1 vote, because frankly, to me they ALL are weak votes. Why call one specific one out?

"Like!"

Now he Likes timmer's post calling out Luna. What did you like about timmer's post, Kyle?

Luna's cool for now

Probably gonna move my vote to Colin soon unless he steps it up

Nah.

Lock civilian.

is your lock civilian luna or colin? also why

Colin.

Let's play a game.

You guess why I believe Colin is a lock civilian.

that sounds like a fun game except instead of doing that, what if you just told me why you believe colin is good and then afterward i'll tell you if i guessed it correctly

This post is less concerning coming from Kyle than it would be from other players, but something about it seems yucky. I can read it as kyle holding back from needing to provide a read.

i don't see anything shiningly obvious-good in colin's posts, and i don't know colin's baseline game-personality well enough to know what his tendencies are

This is his stance. Okay.

Fail.

you're a little confusing sometimes,

what do you think of DH (DharmaHelper)

Promptly changes the subject to DH. Why did you want to know about DH here, Kyle?

i think there's like a 85% chance epi/sloonei is a civ

Why?

I didn’t say what I voted for but it was the Become More, sorry.

I like Epi’s post re: DDL’s role speculation.

This was the main ping. Up to this point he had asked a mechanics question and said he voted for the N0 poll randomly. His first engagement with the actual game was to say he liked Epi's post on DDL, with no elaboration or follow up. Since I was going to be out of pocket all day, I figured I would rather have my vote out there and doing something than locked up tight and useless, so I voted. I didn't want to say my reason, because it gives him an easy out if he's mafia to make the suspicion go away. I wanted to see a response not based on my suspicion, and sure enough I got it. Not giving a reason also sort of forces people who jump on the wagon to supply their own reasoning, rather than just saying "yep I agree." D1 I think that's particularly valuable.

like!!!

What did you like about cbob's post, Kyle?

I dig this question. This one too.

@Sloonei i think i agree with your assessment of juliets' posts here

jc's hogwarts posts have a different feel to them, like a slightly more active feel. (active in terms of being less passive)

Thanks. I came to the same conclusion when I looked at the first page of juliets' Hogwarts posts later.

also: i'm not voting for sloonei today

sloonei is just about the least likely mafia memebr out of the players with votes

Good read and all but, like, Turnip Head did the same thing. Clearly that implicates kyle.

i would also be down for a wolbre vote actually, a lot of his posts have felt like busy-work and he ignored my questions :\

Late support for the wolbre wagon. I don't know what to do with this at the moment, but it exists.

is there still a pretty solid correlation between silent wilgy and sneaky wilgy? is that still a meta

Kyle at least has the appearance of considering both options at the end of yesterday's awful lynch. Slightly good look.

i would also be down for a wolbre vote actually, a lot of his posts have felt like busy-work and he ignored my questions :\

Can you point out which of his posts sounded like busy work? I saw that you poked his long post where he made observations as "busy work". Where was your better one?

This post, of all the Wolbre votes I saw reads as the most hypocritical; voting for a guy becasue his player impressions post was not all that from a guy who made no posts even similar to it. If you had just said "save myself" that would have actually sounded better to me. This post sounds like trying to sound legit, and that's baddie.

hi svs, did you read the post in question? it wasn't full of impressions, it had like 4 impressions and no conclusions,and about a dozen question marks, and none of his future posts seemed to be informed by whatever work he put into making that one. it looked like work for the sake of work. he also spent time photoshopping the map to show changes which would have been an easy way to seem like he was contributing without actually doing anything

i also don't see why i would need to make a similar long post in this game in order to be able to judge other people's long posts? i've made them before.

I think Kyle seems genuine and believable here.

Kyle started off fluffy but has grown more assertive and active as the game has progressed. Slight town read. I'd like answers to questions and more reads. All the reads.

[Sloonei]

People: "wilgy is a bad vote for people scared to be held responsible"

Also people: "nah let's not vote for anybody on his wagon"

[VOTE: tranq] aubergine

still want juliets

This post is weird and I may be misunderstanding it. But is colonialbob saying people scared to be held responsible will vote off wagon? Then Sloonei quotes it, not only saying he's voting off wagon, but that he's not even voting for who he wants to vote for. If you're going to vote off wagon anyways, why not go for juliets?

cbob was suggesting that we should vote for a player who was voting for wilgy at the time because a number of people were complaining that his wagon was shady and weak. Tranq was on the wagon and was a person who'd garnered a fair amount of suspicion.

Why'd you kill nutella?

I would like to look at Wolbre's wagon. That's a good place to start.

Nutella died? I haven't seen the end of night post.

How do you feel about the wilgy wagon? Why do you think nutella died?

[Enrique]

Hey [mention]Dana[/mention] I'm just wondering, are you on one of the evil teams?

[Sloonei]

Most of her posts are just saying Sloon is town and the usual jokes. In Firefly she spent most of the game coming hard after our teammate Golden, which was hilarious. I think Sloon was probably a high-posting non-teammate that she tried to cling onto and win over so they could dominate the game later.

I *suspect* we're only looking at a teammate or two for TH. The roles don't have alignment marked but looking at them there's only a few that stand out as obviously bad and then you have to split them in at least two teams plus potential baddie-ish independents. There's a lot of secrets in the roles and it's an LC/BR game so there's probably opportunities for recruitment and all that (I don't have a better/precise analysis of the roles handy but that's what I thought when I was reading them earlier).

Who is your first paragraph about?

[Enrique]

[Jackofhearts2005]

Potential Nutella killers: Dark Worshiper, Frost Knight, Psionic Ninja (probably not).

Potential TH killers: Idk. Dark Worshipper still seems pretty doom-y.

[Sloonei]

G-man!

Knowing the epic nature of Long Con & Black Rock games, the fact that the baddies kill range increases as their numbers wain shouldn’t surprise me, but oof. Clever way to keep everyone else from getting overconfident.

What is this post? G-man's first observation is a celebration of the mafia kill mechanics. That's... unusual. Why? Why is this the first thing G-man notices and talks about?

Keep an eye on the folks who darted in here early and, in light of the D0 poll result, pooh-poohed ties on the lynch poll. It’s a subtle way to establish a preemptive cop-out for either train-hopping later (to show they stick to their convictions) or blame-shifting to set up fall guys who tie polls that result in mislynches.

Close lynches and ties (whether mid-phase or at EOD) are valuable sources of information. Granted, that information is best in hindsight after the herd has thinned some.

We may not know who is on the Tribunal but we’re starting out with more civs than baddies (unless this game is extra-double whacky) and there are also two baddie factions, so the odds are against Tribunal being filled with one baddie team.

Kyle liked this post. I think some other people did not. I was indifferent to it. Looking at it more critically, I have to wonder what exactly G-man's gripe is here. Yeah, close lynch polls can provide useful info, but that doesn't mean people should be hungry for ties. Ties are a bad thing. Close polls are messy volatile. A poll should play it as the voters deem appropriate. I question the entire premise of this post now. G-man, wassup? Who are "the folks" you warned us to keep an eye on and what do you think of them?

To me the only reason a person would vote to tie a lynch that they weren't in danger in is because they are on the tribunal or know who is and they want to save the person that is in the lead during the un-tied period.

Significantly more plausible baddie motives RE: Ties.

Knowing more than meets the eye is far from the only reason that ties happen. At EOD it does look suspicious but it happens many times during the day phase as well. Some people have hunches about and reads on people that lead them to tie up the poll. Poll momentum shifts as the day progresses as well. Your post is very short-sighted, reactive, and dismissive. Anyone else posting it and I’d be somewhat suspicious. But you’re you, so I don’t know if the needle moves much.

I don't disagree that DH's take on ties is a little shortsighted, but I wonder why G-man felt the need to attack/provoke him like this. Seems kind of shoehorned in. He'd made his case, and then it's as if he needed to frame DH in a negative light afterward. Perhaps.

Knitting a sweater takes time. So does forming reads on people (for me at least). It feels like it’s been ages since I played in a game this size, and I’m already blurring several of you together in my mind like all the dwarves in The Hobbit. Certain personalities stand out more than others but that’s because I don’t play often enough.

My comments to DH were designed to be loud enough to register with people, helping me be noticed in a game where I haven’t said much yet. I’m playing a long-game strategy, which will probably get me killed for admitting it but oh well.

I’m not interested in competing in the big, loud Day 1 contest some of you like to engage in. That’s never been my style. Feel free to fling poo, needle, and fish for reactions. Just know that I’m in observation mode out of both preference and necessity (guess who doesn’t know I’m playing- again).

I didn’t like the concept of “let’s avoid ties because of the mysterious sppoky tribunal thing,” so I said something. Then I reiterated it. I’m done talking about because I don’t want to be perceived as a one-issue player (least of all over a tangential issue).

I’m going to look at the loudest folk and try to determine who among those voices sounds insincere. I’ll also look at the middle-of-the-packers and decide who may look the most blendy. I’ll vote for whichever one I feel strongest about at the time.

Why do you want to be noticed, G-man? Why are you so conscious of your perceived identity in this game? I'll circle back to your final pledge there later, because I'm still not settled on your vote.

KA-POW! We watched Incredibles 2 tonight. I wasn’t all that impressed.

Anywho, the top five talkers by post count when I snagged it were Sloonei, DH, juliets, timmer, and Epi.

Sloonei was quite talkative for someone with a paper to write. From my skim, he started out throwing poo everywhere to fetch reactions. Standard issue stuff. He tried to shut down Epi’s ‘gotcha’ sequence and became less poo-flingy as the day went on. By the end of the ISO he felt more accommodating and interactive rather than just “WHAM with the poo and tell me how you feel about that.” More dialogue and less shooting from the hip. It’s been a long time since I played with full-bore Sloonei.

DH was a pretty good read but I know he’s wiley as all get out after seeing his charm offensive in Outpost 31. Thing of beauty, that one. He talks about a number of people without going too far in interpreting their actions. No seed-planting as far as I can detect. Nothing out of place there, but Outpost 31.

Juliets spends most of her time responding to people’s thoughts and stances on other people without offering many of her own thoughts on anyone. I feel like this is normal but it’s also easy to fake. Her post count is high but it is, as she admits, all over the place. Is she being a sponge or just feigning a somewhat active appearance?

Timmer feels like Timmer. Some general discussion the first half of Day 1 but he doesn’t just ride the phase out in neutral. He’s warming up, gradually engaging in discussion about specific people and offering his own insight. Progression doesn’t always mean anything but it felt good to see it from a Top 5 Talker.

Epi seemed to Epi along but then hit Sloonei with a try-hard sledgehammer with extra stank on it. He’s a force to be reckoned with regardless of alignment, and no one can accuse him of dialing it in early here. It’s a bold play for a baddie to try to demolish a civvie like this early but there are also two baddie teams, so baddies are hunting too. Fairly standard stuff but the presence of multiple baddie teams gives me pause.

If I had to put these five in order of most likely to be faking it to least likely, my gut puts it like this:

Juliets
Epi
Sloonei
DH
Timmer

Here are those reads! I'm square in the middle but I ended up being the recipient of G-man's vote. Juliets is at the top and I was inspired to ISO her by this very post. G-man explained his vote by saying that I [url=http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 32#p501832]"'went hog wild on Juliets after she looked worst on my narrow list"[url] and "you were all over the place yesterday." As I've said already, it's funny that people are treating my erratic play as a bad thing. If my vote for juliets is going to be treated as opportunistic, then why are we not looking at G-man's (silent) vote for me in the same light? He had announced his departure along with a vote for juliets but then apparently continued lurking long enough to see the development of my wagon and cast a new vote without a word. Hogwash, utter hogwash!

Here's the post where he announced his juliets vote:

Kicking myself off the phone for the night and going to bed. I didn’t finish my ISO’s of mid-post level players. Colin’s ISO is thin. CBob had some meat but I need to give it another look when I have more time. Nutella was lean, DDl seemed adequate, and Mac is Mac. I didn’t hit the Jack, sig, or Luna reads yet.

I’ll vote for Juliets since I placed her the worst of my big talkers. If I wake up in the morning to find myself still alive, I will ISO everyone over N1 and the first part of D2.

The trouble with this game is that it’s only Day 1 and there are almost 900 posts, most of which is bluster and white noise.

Linki- oh good grief this may not end well for me.

Good night.

Also included are a series of vague reads that accomplish very little. I get that he's dealing with time constraints, but this is the closest thing to player salad we've seen in the game. His parting words are a vote for juliets because she looked worst of the high posters to him, but then he'd change to me somewhere along the line without stopping to say hello.

I like G-man's posts less than I liked Kyle's. Slight scum read.

[Sloonei]

Ah. I was getting some buddy vibes from TH as well but was too enamored by the support at the EoD to dwell on it.
Colin's right that we should do some interactive reads with TH. I may get on that later, but I want to do some other unrelated things first.

[DharmaHelper]

Here I will analyze TH's posts and specifically their interactions with other players:




1. Tranq Link Back and forth RE: poll options. Tranq gets up TH's ass about mentioning the possible civvieness of the poll option before voting. Pretty much IIRC the meatiest interaction Tranq has had yet. I'm gonna rate this sucker a Yellow.

2. Enrique Link Jokey "you bad?" post. Rating this one Yellow. as well since it looks like it could be distancing.

3. Epignosis Link Defends Sloonei from Epi by way of straw manning Luna. Rating this Green for Epi and Red for Sloonei and Yellow For Luna

4. G-Man Link G-Man emerges as a suspect to TH. Rating this Green for G.

5. Sloonei Link Waffley non-post about Sloonei that's also a defense without outright saying so. Red

6. Luna Link Says Luna looks "OK so far". Again not committing to much. Yellow for Luna.

7. Doc Link Defending the Doc's bullshit. Red for Doc.

8. Nutella Link "Good Catch" from nutella RE: Chuck/Sloonei. Buddying Nutella's suspicion of Chuck in order to (again) slyly defend Sloonei. Looks Green for nutella, Green for Chuck, Red For Sloonei.

9. Doc link Defends Doc by saying "more recently" he's been a civ when he's been inactive/low activity. Who gives a fuck? Red for Doc.

10. Sprityo Link Points out that sprityo is lurking and expresses a desire to lynch him. Green.

11. Doc Link Parrots my anger at Doc. Green for Doc.

[DharmaHelper]

If I had to pick a teammate out of those interactions I'd go Luna/Tranq/Enrique. The Sloonei interactions look like absolute dog shit but there's so much there it's more likely pocketing rather than actual teammate.

[DharmaHelper]

He also was soft on Doc until Doc decided to fuck himself to the front of the line, so that could be preemptive distancing.

[Sloonei]

It's DDL's turn.

Aubergine: looks like a civ since vote power is OP for baddies, but restricted enough that could be bad
Blind seer: probably civ
Chevuschade Voidwing: bulletproof makes more sense to be bad
D’Abrutsi: obvious 3P
Daisy: probably civ
Dark Worshipper: looks like our hostile indie role
Darth Malignus: name aside, silencing is such a baddie ability. If you are civ think twice before using it at all
Dream Splicer: could be either way
Frost Knight: the "does not block kills" suggests an attempt to balance a civ, but could be bad too
Gentle Shepherd: probably civ
Glint Viper: sounds like a civ, baddies wouldn't want to sacrifice themselves to bring someone back. Unless it can change alignments maybe?
Grimlock Wolverson: could be either
Hollow Man: obvious baddie
Kraken: could be either
Lycantha: tracker type role feels like a civ
Portalman: could be either
Psionic Ninja: very civ-looking, also looks very powerful. I suspect the <secrets> might be something negative, or a indie wincon.
Quantum Key: support-like role, feels civ
Quintessential Cat: 3P
Random Animal: 3P... I think? Or alternates between civ and 3P.
Sakana Sashimi: looks like a good assassin role for baddies, but might be civ
Savage Pixie: most of the text suggests a baddie, but the watcher thing suggests civ
Spirit of the Living Statue: 3P, or someone who can be recruited into any faction
Spirit Wrangler: most spirits sound like civ abilities
Thaddeus Mechaspark: protection sounds like civ, the rest of abilities look neutral
Toxic Frog: vicious sounding role, probably bad
Trickster: very bad sounding
Waresman: sounds like a 3P
Yin/Yang: probably civ

Here's the infamous post. I don't have a beef. At the time I appreciated the attempt to put thought into these things, although I'm not sure there's anything I can do with the information just yet. A consideration of role alignments seems more useful late in the game when the list is smaller and it's actually feasible to keep track of available abilities. NAI for me.

Nutella is fluffing so hard this game I almost think she has a curse.

I already talked about this post because I completely disagreed with it. Now nutella is dead. Was DDL scared of her?

btw i decided i have a truth meta now

You bad?

Prods Enrique. Noted.

These poll options seem quite meaningless.

Are people voting randomly or what?

The Tribunal of Judgment is from A World Apart, it was three civvies with BTSC plus a lynch switch and pardon. Seems pro-town imo

Sounds good. Why didn't you mention this when you voted?

I actually liked Tranq for this post. He made a good point on TH and I tend to trust people who hunt at super early game when nobody else is hunting. Not gonna put my vote here. Might put on TH.

Supports Tranq and hints at voting for TH. (Followed by more Tranq support)

Are people really suspecting me for the role stuff?

I just liked the puzzle and wanted to see if I could figure it out.

This was the post that stood out to me most from DDL on Day 1. As I've already said, I can see it as a baddie who's dismayed at being caught for a dumb reason. He's right that that's a silly thing to take heat for. But it was Day 0/1 and folks needed to start somewhere.

A pair of posts critical of G-Man. I don't think this is unfair.

Tranq acted like a pro-active hunter early then he weirdly changed his demeanor to a more reactive and passive one.

Change of course on Tranq. Okay.

Defense of Colin

I'm not overly concerned with DDL's post speculating about role alignments. It's not wrong to suggest that baddies will talk about mechanics rather than gameplay early on, but I don't necessarily get that vibe from DDL. That's not to say I get definitively town vibes from him, but he's shown himself to be a somewhat idiosyncratic player in the past and I've mistakenly held that against him more than once. Also, he's not shied away from gameplay discussion either.

That said, his posts haven't read as surefire civilian to me. Some things:

This gave me vertigo.

Reads are rarely well-defined on Day 1.

I feel like you have made more remarks about how Day 1 is supposed to be weak than anyone else even though you have more posts and contribution than most people anyway.

I'm not sure what the intent of this post is.

Tranq keeps looking more and more passive and making Night 0 seems like his strongest moment in the game and I hate that.

[VOTE: Tranq] aubergine

Also G-Man's defense is alright. Not exactly conclusive, but believable.

Pivots off the G-man suspicion pretty easily (What was so "airtight" about his defense?) and moves to Tranq. I don't dislike DDL's progression on Tranq. This is a pretty off-the-radar case he's dealing with and in both cases DDL's read has appeared to be pretty unique. I don't get the sense that he's being false or manipulative here. But, of course, that means less when we have two scum teams. He elaborates on the case here

DrWilgy would be my lazy default low-poster choice.

Time for me to go and vote. I guess i'll go with the lazy default low-poster choice.

This post is about as bad as that post from Colin that I said is too bad to be bad so now I gotta wonder is this is too bad to be bad too.

Doubt is creeping in.

Sloonei boi is town, he had a real life excuse for not being active yet he has a buttload of posts

...

So?

Doesn't give a rat's behind for this post from TH.

Taking a closer look at Luna to see how I feel about her contributions as a whole:
Cites a rule that could be broken if we're not careful. This can be seen in the same vein as DDL's mechanics-talk which got him into trouble. I'm not sure I want to treat it that way, but it's there.

This sounds like some pointless piece of context. Why do you need to say someone else's post is "similar to what put DDL under scrutiny"? Who put me under that scrutiny? It wasn't you. So why are you using someone else's scrutiny of me to analyse a third person?

It doesn't feel like a civ way of thinking imo. It's like you are trying to create connections that don't mean anything just because you need connections to create.

Because I think it's somewhat arbitrary that you received so much heat for that piece, and then someone like Luna received no attention for something similar. It could suggest that certain individuals were avoiding her.

@Sloonei
That’s very sweet of you.

@Dragon D. Luffy
You ever give that Nutella read I asked for?

Oh sorry I totally missed it.

I'd say town but not strongly. Her stuff about defending the poor wishy-washy populations reads genuine as fuck, but is also not entirely related to the game. It's not like mafia can't be genuine. But I feel no reason to read her as bad so far. I did say she was super fluffly early but that wasn't exactly AI.

Weak town read on nutella last night, god rest her soul. Not sure what to do with this, but it exists.

I feel like I really like this juliets case people have put forth because I tinfoil on that every game. She always feels very passive and aimless.

The problem is that she is usually town. Does she feel more passive here than normal? Kyle says he does but I haven't felt it myself.

Super tentative support of the juliets case. ARE YOU IN OR ARE YOU OUT?

I'd put DDL in the middle of Kyle and G-man. His interactions with TH are worth looking at. On two separate occasions he is quietly dismissive of TH, and even entertains a vote for them early in Day 1 but never returns to the subject again. I could see that as baddie partners being careful to tiptoe around each other. If DDL is scum, I believe he is still actively hunting the other team. If he is town then he seems to be on the ball and I appreciate that.

[DharmaHelper]

lol fuck me I guess

[Sloonei]

The people want Luna ISO 2.0, so I'm gonna give it to them! late Day 1 and on edition:

Ahhh
Should I break the tie on wilgy or sloonei, or just stay on colin and ignore it?

linki: the tie is gone

WHAT IS THIS POST, LUNA? Why ignore it? What was going through your head as you entered the thread near the deadline? (I'll provide my own answer to that question, you tell me if i'm right or wrong)

Well I guess getting lynched Day 1 means I can study more rip

but you're not getting lynched? Wilgy has 5 votes and you have 3

Are you sitting down?

Things were volatile, votes were changing every second. I don't get this post.

I don't know what's going on and I don't have much time to catch up before EOD. Halp.

Verbal flailing.

I always self destruct under pressure look back at the Peloponnesian war mafia game where I was town

Imma bet wolbre's town.

Good call right there.

Wilgy on the other hand, has said nothing that looks lock-town.

I mean, given the options I can't say this vote is terrible. I'm not sure what to make of the note of confidence though. The vote feels a bit overstated, maybe.

Voting Dr. Wilgy. Incase he's bad. Cause I don't thin Wolbre is.

I can't tell if this vote is more a defense of wolbre or an act against wilgy. It's both for sure, but I'm unclear on what luna's primary motive was, if that sort of thing matters at all.

im not dying over an afk player
[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

dude, please be civ, cause I just saved you for no reason and if you're bad I'm gonna die.

Conclusion on EOD Luna: She showed up late in the day with a vote parked on Colin. She needed to make a decision on Wilgy or wolbre and got involved. I like that on the surface. She made a decision and stuck to it. There was not a lot of time to think things through, so everything came out a bit jumbled, but I'd be interested in hearing what exactly was going through Luna's mind when she was deciding who to vote for, just to help contextualize these posts a bit better. I lean town on her behavior here, but that's not a strong read at the moment.

Summary of my suspects: timmer, Sloonei, Tranq, INH, Luna.

PLAYA SALAD!

(joking, sort of.)

How seriously is this meant to be taken?

Bad wagon is bad. This is bad. One of the other two is Mafia and getting saved. Wilgy is always the mislynch.

...what if Mac and Wilgy are scummates.

I don't know. Do you think they are?

People: "wilgy is a bad vote for people scared to be held responsible"

Also people: "nah let's not vote for anybody on his wagon"

[VOTE: tranq] aubergine

still want juliets

This post is weird and I may be misunderstanding it. But is colonialbob saying people scared to be held responsible will vote off wagon? Then Sloonei quotes it, not only saying he's voting off wagon, but that he's not even voting for who he wants to vote for. If you're going to vote off wagon anyways, why not go for juliets?

cbob was suggesting that we should vote for a player who was voting for wilgy at the time because a number of people were complaining that his wagon was shady and weak. Tranq was on the wagon and was a person who'd garnered a fair amount of suspicion.

Why'd you kill nutella?

I would like to look at Wolbre's wagon. That's a good place to start.

Nutella died? I haven't seen the end of night post.

Agreed RE: wolbre wagon. Let us know what you think when you get a chance.

I wanted to doublecheck my town read on Luna from earlier and it hasn't gone away. It's still not super strong, but there's nothing here that really stands out to me as bad, and a few points that look genuine and proactive. I'd be open to alternative theories though.

[DharmaHelper]

Most of her posts are just saying Sloon is town and the usual jokes. In Firefly she spent most of the game coming hard after our teammate Golden, which was hilarious. I think Sloon was probably a high-posting non-teammate that she tried to cling onto and win over so they could dominate the game later.

I *suspect* we're only looking at a teammate or two for TH. The roles don't have alignment marked but looking at them there's only a few that stand out as obviously bad and then you have to split them in at least two teams plus potential baddie-ish independents. There's a lot of secrets in the roles and it's an LC/BR game so there's probably opportunities for recruitment and all that (I don't have a better/precise analysis of the roles handy but that's what I thought when I was reading them earlier).

Enrique is a real friend for this post. Love this guy.

[Sloonei]

lol fuck me I guess

No, I like what you're doing. Keep going.

[DharmaHelper]

lol fuck me I guess

No, I like what you're doing. Keep going.

I'm done that's the whole ISO (or the meaty important parts I cared enough about to note)

[MacDougall]

I still want to lynch Enrique. The universe tried to give him to us and we ignored it. Not good.

I half think you do this with me because you're protective of me and don't want to see me night-killed. Just wanna let you know I appreciate it.

Love u bb

[Sloonei]

lol fuck me I guess

No, I like what you're doing. Keep going.

I'm done that's the whole ISO (or the meaty important parts I cared enough about to note)

What about the other side? Luna/Tranq/Enrique probably interacted with TH somewhere too.

[DharmaHelper]

lol fuck me I guess

No, I like what you're doing. Keep going.

I'm done that's the whole ISO (or the meaty important parts I cared enough about to note)

What about the other side? Luna/Tranq/Enrique probably interacted with TH somewhere too.

Yeah but I wanna watch Sorry to Bother You and drink Egg Nog fam.

[MacDougall]

I think we made the best decision I was able to come up with. That's all we can ask for in any lynch.

ew. Really don't like the vibe here.

We have this thing where we suspect each other in every game and we should probably stop doing that

[Sloonei]

lol fuck me I guess

No, I like what you're doing. Keep going.

I'm done that's the whole ISO (or the meaty important parts I cared enough about to note)

What about the other side? Luna/Tranq/Enrique probably interacted with TH somewhere too.

Yeah but I wanna watch Sorry to Bother You and drink Egg Nog fam.

I understand.

[MacDougall]

Oh fuck TH was Mafia.

That means DharmaHelper is also Mafia.

[MacDougall]

DharmaHelper and Turnip Head coordinated their actions at the end of the day I have zero doubt about it. They both tried to tie up the lynch between Wilgy and Wolbre. Turnip Head even moved his vote off of Wolbre (and not directly to Wilgy) to do so.

[MacDougall]

Anyway I've ranked the people who have currently voted from most to least suspicious as of me typing this post without being linkied into any other votes:


Cbob - "His posting" is a funny but ultimately hollow and wormy way to explain the Colin vote
Colin - "No U" vote was cheeky but still bad.
Chuck - Did not give a reason for his DDL vote which IIRC came close to if not directly after Epi said he'd be voting DDL. Chuck pulling up to the train station early AF to save himself a seat.
Sloonei - Voting for anyone based on other people's reasons for suspecting people is suspicious to me. Make your own points. Stand on your own ground.
TH - Early vote for Sorsha for a hollow, funny reason. Doesn't look serious. Sorsha's not done anything overtly suspicious. Could be buddying/distancing but not worth losing my shit over instantly.
Epi - His DDL vote makes sense, he gave a good reason and was consistent.

I read this the first time but it's not exactly meaty by your standards. Why requote it?

Added Colin.

Single in thread interaction between the King and Prince of Chaos Mafia. Pfft as if. Mafia teammates for sure. DharmaHelper please just lynch yourself.

[nutella]

[MacDougall]

I was watching the votes during the last 60 seconds of the day and both DharmaHelper and Turnip Head changed their votes at the very last minute. I figured they must have been civ masons to act so blatantly together, I even said as much. But if Turnip Head be flippin' Mafia then that puts them cats amongst them pigeons.

[Sloonei]

Is that Quin I see? My god I think it is!

i voted "will you become more" because it's either a rhetorical question with a motivating connotation or a question as to whether i'm going to get super fat this christmas in which case the answer is yes

Town.

i won't be buddied this time, punk.

Keep an eye on the folks who darted in here early and, in light of the D0 poll result, pooh-poohed ties on the lynch poll. It’s a subtle way to establish a preemptive cop-out for either train-hopping later (to show they stick to their convictions) or blame-shifting to set up fall guys who tie polls that result in mislynches.

Close lynches and ties (whether mid-phase or at EOD) are valuable sources of information. Granted, that information is best in hindsight after the herd has thinned some.

We may not know who is on the Tribunal but we’re starting out with more civs than baddies (unless this game is extra-double whacky) and there are also two baddie factions, so the odds are against Tribunal being filled with one baddie team.

This post is an amazing piece of wisdom and logic that doesn't acrually do any scumhuting.

yes

Supports DDL's critique of G-man. Noted

Has anyone seen Quin? At this point I'd expect to see him angrily hissing at the people accusing him.

nobody is accusing me so i have nothing to do

THAT'S NOT TOWN QUIN. Also perhaps he's a baddie overcompensating for his general lack of scrutiny to this point. -1 townie point.

I hate Day 1. I don't know how you guys do it. I hate so much the voting and trying to make cases based on so little that Day 1's just make me twitchy. As of this moment, I am mostly on the lookout for people who seem to eager to make something out of nothing. Luna's vote fits the bill, for instance.

no

Is Quin saying "no" to timmer's general stance on Day 1, or is Quin saying "no" to timmer's criticism of Luna? LET'S HEAR IT QUINNY QUIN QUIN.

Actually, to be more clear, Luna's vote seems fine. I was trying to reference this POST of hers: "Sorry, but that is not a god reason to vote someone. Anything Jack has done this game to make you suspect him?"

I don't like when people try to make big deals out of anyone's day 1 vote, because frankly, to me they ALL are weak votes. Why call one specific one out?

because if you want someone lynched you need to make a case on them. that is how mafia works.

[VOTE: timmer] aubergine

A vote for timmer. I don't love this, it feels kind of forced.

I thought I saw an epig vote mixed in there, maybe I misread?

I guess what I'm stuck on is... why not leave your vote on sig, who you seem pretty strong on, relative to it being day 1, WHILE you talk up other candidates?
Don't you weaken your own ideas by removing your vote from your #1 guy? You and me both know that a number of people will show up in the last few hours and vote with little thought, and they will do so using the current votes as a sort of weaksauce guide.

For Sloonei, this is a waste of town's greatest asset. Their vote. Sloonei throwing his vote around with varying degrees of seriousness is not something I think is scum indicative for him.

I'm not caught up but this has been "Quin sticks his nose where it doesn't belong and make a fool of himself doing so". Tune in next time.

Sounds like Turnip Head! caveat is that quin probably knows me better than anyone else in this game so if there's anyone i trust to read me accurately it's him, BUT! imma be wary of the buddy system.

I thought I saw an epig vote mixed in there, maybe I misread?

I guess what I'm stuck on is... why not leave your vote on sig, who you seem pretty strong on, relative to it being day 1, WHILE you talk up other candidates?
Don't you weaken your own ideas by removing your vote from your #1 guy? You and me both know that a number of people will show up in the last few hours and vote with little thought, and they will do so using the current votes as a sort of weaksauce guide.

I joked about voting for epi because he said I smell.

And I'm usually just loose with my vote. I move it around based on where I want the conversation to go. I've been yelling about sig for a while and it's become clear that a number of people, whose opinions I trust and appreciate, don't feel the same way that I do. In light of that, I think it's more productive to turn my attention elsewhere. My stance on sig is out there if anyone wants to pick it back up (and he promised to return later, so I'm sure it will). But in the meantime, I'd rather focus on developing other reads.

I'm leaving now, for real this time. If I had spent 1/4 of the time I've been in here on my paper today I'd be done with schoolwork for the semester.

linki: thank you quin. listen to quin. he knows my deal.

STOP BUDDYING ME

Right back atcha, slick.

Objects to sig suspicion on principle. I don't care for this general sentiment. If a player is genuinely suspicious, feel free to suspect them. I don't care what his reputation is.

actually no i want to vote for [VOTE: g-man] aubergine because ddl said super rad things about him

Okay. This is 5 hours before the deadline, for the record.

This exchange is vintage Quin, but I don't know if it tells me anything about his alignment.

Votes for wilgy to protect me a half hour before the deadline. Thanks.

Seems to be trying to develop his read on me. Cool, I guess.

Then he is one of the first to jump on the wolbre wagon. Scum Quin may not need to do that, but scum Quin also doesn't stand to lose much from it either. Both wagons were equally terrible.
I wanna note now that Quin seems to be generally supportive of me during the end of day phase and things were chaotic enough when he showed up that the votes could have gone just about anywhere. He never turned his attention to a candidate outside of the two main wagons. I was shouting about juliets all the while, but Quin never said a word. He's certainly not the only person who's guilty of this, but I point it out because he was one of my most vocal supporters at the time, along with Turnip Head, and yet neither of them ever really advocated for the case that I was trying to make. Am I being paranoid and unfair? Perhaps. But it's an idea that just struck me as I was reading Quin's posts and now it exists in the thread.

hey here's an idea

if sloonei is bad for coordinating reads with temmie g-man, let's lynch g-man who some of us already have gripes with

He does want to push us over to G-man though. Or he gives it a limp suggestion, at least.

There's absolutely nothing here that screams "I AM TOWN QUIN" and this entire post history is compatible with clever, low-key scum Quin.

[Sloonei]

ISO'd players, ranked in order:
Kyle
Luna
DDL
Quin
G-Man

[Sloonei]

Oh wow DH and TH and Yin and Yang. My dreams have come true.

Mac did indeed make this post. I didn't notice the vote shift. Can you explain what you saw in more detail, Mr Dougall?

[MacDougall]

Oh Sloonei thinks G-Man be mafia now ... how fun.

[Sloonei]

Oh Sloonei thinks G-Man be mafia now ... how fun.

Maybe. Go back to town reading me.

What do you think of G-man? What do you think of juliets? Pretend I don't exist. but still answer these questions.

[Sloonei]

With regards to the argument that the "timing" of my juliets case is suspect or opportunistic, I'd like to point out that in no way was my case on her an isolated event. I had been working on individual player ISOs for a couple of hours before then. Juliets happened to be the last in a series of ISOs I worked on, and she also happened to be the player I found most suspicious in the exercise. Here are the other posts I made. I think they provide necessary context for my frame of mind when I made my Juliets case:

Lunalee ISO ~9:30 PM
general declaration of my intentions to ISO more people ~9:50 PM
LoRab ISO ~10 PM
Jack ISO ~10:20 PM
Response to G-man's analysis naming Juliets as a suspect ~10:20 PM
juliets ISO ~10:40 PM

[MacDougall]

Oh wow DH and TH and Yin and Yang. My dreams have come true.

Mac did indeed make this post. I didn't notice the vote shift. Can you explain what you saw in more detail, Mr Dougall?

I hit refresh a few times at 3:01pm and DharmaHelper and Turnip Head shuffled their votes around in a way that looked entirely like they were trying to take the piss and create a tie. It just looked so much like they were working together. My first thought was they were teammates, then I ruled out Mafia because I thought it would be pretty ballsy for them as Mafia to coordinate their votes that way on day 1 so I landed on civ masons and made the Yin and Yang post. Why work together to create a tie on day as Mafia? Fucks me. It's an LC game there could be a million reasons. Did they work together? It fucking damn well looked like it to me even if the explanation isn't super compelling. It's a "you had to be there" thing I guess.

Also neither even raised an eyebrow when I made that Yin and Yang post either. In hindsight, with Turnip's flip that might even be a better case against DH. If they aren't Masons together why did neither say so?

[Kylemii]

ok so, 2 kills at night means....

mafia + sakana sashimi/savage pixie/trickster/dark worshipper?

is the general consensus that the trickster is probably a mafia role? it mentions some special rules/modifications involved in killing but doesn't mention specifically being able to kill on its own

[MacDougall]

Oh Sloonei thinks G-Man be mafia now ... how fun.

Maybe. Go back to town reading me.

What do you think of G-man? What do you think of juliets? Pretend I don't exist. but still answer these questions.

G-man is suspicious. I think Juliets is a civ.

[MacDougall]

ok so, 2 kills at night means....

mafia + sakana sashimi/savage pixie/trickster/dark worshipper?

is the general consensus that the trickster is probably a mafia role? it mentions some special rules/modifications involved in killing but doesn't mention specifically being able to kill on its own

Yeah pretty sure trickster is Mafia ay

[Sloonei]

ok so, 2 kills at night means....

mafia + sakana sashimi/savage pixie/trickster/dark worshipper?

is the general consensus that the trickster is probably a mafia role? it mentions some special rules/modifications involved in killing but doesn't mention specifically being able to kill on its own

I mean, TH's role is listed as "corrupted remnant", which may actually just be indie.

[Kylemii]

what's up my name's jared and i never learned how to read

[MacDougall]

ok so, 2 kills at night means....

mafia + sakana sashimi/savage pixie/trickster/dark worshipper?

is the general consensus that the trickster is probably a mafia role? it mentions some special rules/modifications involved in killing but doesn't mention specifically being able to kill on its own

I mean, TH's role is listed as "corrupted remnant", which may actually just be indie.

Nah dude that's an LC Mafia team name for sure.

[Enrique]

ok so, 2 kills at night means....

mafia + sakana sashimi/savage pixie/trickster/dark worshipper?

is the general consensus that the trickster is probably a mafia role? it mentions some special rules/modifications involved in killing but doesn't mention specifically being able to kill on its own

I mean, TH's role is listed as "corrupted remnant", which may actually just be indie.

may it?