Steely Dan Mafia [ENDGAME]

[speedchuck]

Why is Juliets not the counterwagon here?

linki - Jay where do you see me struggling to keep up? I just got back from the gym if it's some recent thing.

It's right now. You're a little slow to the posting trigger. If you just got home then do your thing, and I'll see how it goes.

I wouldn't lynch someone for being a bit behind at times. That can be so skewed by RL circumstances and passion level, like, c'min.

[speedchuck]

Being confident that JJJ is town feels like TMI in any context.

[nutella]

Dunya, what does tmi on me and jay mean in response to nutella? Like, are we not supposed to bring up old games like that? Or is it like the truth being stretched?

too much info, cos mafia know who's good.

like she hadn't considered the possibility of you or jay being bad. i might be willing to give the benefit of the doubt where jay is concerned because all of his posts, but i don't feel like she had any reason to town read you at that point. she did say she had entertained the possibility of you being bad after i asked, but she didn't care...and i didn't care for that response.

Again I didn't even mention it there bc it wasn't relevant. Jack asked me why people were voting for me and I know eloh has done this to me as town on town so it didn't come up.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I wouldn't lynch someone for being a bit behind at times. That can be so skewed by RL circumstances and passion level, like, c'min.

Nicer. Than. I.

[speedchuck]

I wouldn't lynch someone for being a bit behind at times. That can be so skewed by RL circumstances and passion level, like, c'min.

Nicer. Than. I.

I thought it had more to do with that being less alignment indicative than like ten other things, but I'll take the compliment.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Being confident that JJJ is town feels like TMI in any context.

I mean, kinda, cause scum have a hard time mislynching him but he also tends to take on the town leader role and draw legit townreads. Idk how you can be sure of TMI.

I thought you were joking about voting Jay. Who are you voting for for realzies?

[nutella]

What isn't genuine about his civilian reads? The DDL one was something prompted from their interactions, and felt like natural conversation especially considering its context (The Firefly game).

He wrote a novella to explain why he read DDL as a civilian. I don't believe that was necessary, and I don't believe that's how MacDougall operates. He was similar in his handling of dunya. He technically called me light green, but I haven't the faintest idea why -- his read on me doesn't exist. He said he liked juliets because she is "more involved than usual" (no she isn't?). He loved Kites for his big reads post, which is such an easy thing to say.

Bleh.

I gotchu. I could vote for him to save myself but would still prefer Luna.

[nutella]

Being confident that JJJ is town feels like TMI in any context.

Not here. Reasons.

[Lunalee]

I wanna vote Luna but I’m secretly a huge softy and feel bad about her getting lynched a lot D1.

This makes me cringe. It reads like you know I'm town, and feel bad joining in on the lynch.

[dunya]

Why is Juliets not the counterwagon here?

linki - Jay where do you see me struggling to keep up? I just got back from the gym if it's some recent thing.

It's right now. You're a little slow to the posting trigger. If you just got home then do your thing, and I'll see how it goes.

I wouldn't lynch someone for being a bit behind at times. That can be so skewed by RL circumstances and passion level, like, c'min.

yeah. i don't even like that fire under someone's feet to play at a faster pace than they are comfortable with. juliets posting in rapid succession and keeping up with the thread every right now would seem weird and off meta to me.

[speedchuck]

Being confident that JJJ is town feels like TMI in any context.

I mean, kinda, cause scum have a hard time mislynching him but he also tends to take on the town leader role and draw legit townreads. Idk how you can be sure of TMI.

I thought you were joking about voting Jay. Who are you voting for for realzies?

Considering nutella.

But I'm not totally kosher with Jay either.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The people who played on Bulbagarden are spooked.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I wanna vote Luna but I’m secretly a huge softy and feel bad about her getting lynched a lot D1.

This makes me cringe. It reads like you know I'm town, and feel bad joining in on the lynch.

It’s not like being lynched as mafia is easier or more fun. It’s not an alignment thing.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I wanna vote Luna but I’m secretly a huge softy and feel bad about her getting lynched a lot D1.

This makes me cringe. It reads like you know I'm town, and feel bad joining in on the lynch.

I feel differently about Jack, but I also kind of feel your cringe.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Being confident that JJJ is town feels like TMI in any context.

I mean, kinda, cause scum have a hard time mislynching him but he also tends to take on the town leader role and draw legit townreads. Idk how you can be sure of TMI.

I thought you were joking about voting Jay. Who are you voting for for realzies?

Considering nutella.

But I'm not totally kosher with Jay either.

Tell me about both of them.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Question for the whole gang:

If we lynch a low-poster, who should it be?

If that's not your preferred strategy: great, grand, wonderful. You can still answer the question.

[nutella]

I wanna vote Luna but I’m secretly a huge softy and feel bad about her getting lynched a lot D1.

This makes me cringe. It reads like you know I'm town, and feel bad joining in on the lynch.

I feel differently about Jack, but I also kind of feel your cringe.

I believe jack is town but this post actually makes me feel marginally better about luna.

[VOTE: mac] aubergine bc it's probably my best bet and your main point on him is pretty strong.

[nutella]

Question for the whole gang:

If we lynch a low-poster, who should it be?

If that's not your preferred strategy: great, grand, wonderful. You can still answer the question.

Neverwhere

[Jackofhearts2005]

This is dumb (because it doesn’t make me town) but I feel the need to prove that I am in fact a softy.

I cried when Bingbong Jumped ya’ll.

[juliets]

What isn't genuine about his civilian reads? The DDL one was something prompted from their interactions, and felt like natural conversation especially considering its context (The Firefly game).

He wrote a novella to explain why he read DDL as a civilian. I don't believe that was necessary, and I don't believe that's how MacDougall operates. He was similar in his handling of dunya. He technically called me light green, but I haven't the faintest idea why -- his read on me doesn't exist. He said he liked juliets because she is "more involved than usual" (no she isn't?). He loved Kites for his big reads post, which is such an easy thing to say.

Bleh.

Ok here's what I see. I initially liked his posts about DDL and I really liked his reads wall (even tho I didn't agree with everything) because he was explaining why he had the reads he did. Looking back over it though what strikes me is he never does this. He usually just throws out reads with no backup whatsoever and when people question him he ignores it or responds negatively. But is this indicative of a bad Mac or just a style change? I need to look at a bad Mac game, anyone know a recent one?

lots of linki

[Matahari]

I am having a hard time catching up. Still have two pages to read but when I’m done with those, it will be four or six. So I’m stopping at this point, and I’ll going to try to make sense of something.
The last game I was in, someone got to use an ability on day 0. That made me think that maybe Nutella had been forced to quote lyrics. Then Jay roleclaims about being able to put a posting curse on someone that stops short of insanification. Wen day 0 is up, Nutella isn’t insulting Jay anymore, and everything is peachy keen. That just pings the crap out of me. Ok. I’m back to reading.

I hope I get time to go back and see who suddenly showed up after Epig post about 24 hours.

[speedchuck]

If I was to lynch a lurker, it'd probably be Niju or Leetic.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Question for the whole gang:

If we lynch a low-poster, who should it be?

If that's not your preferred strategy: great, grand, wonderful. You can still answer the question.

Not applicable.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ok here's what I see. I initially liked his posts about DDL and I really liked his reads wall (even tho I didn't agree with everything) because he was explaining why he had the reads he did. Looking back over it though what strikes me is he never does this. He usually just throws out reads with no backup whatsoever and when people question him he ignores it or responds negatively. But is this indicative of a bad Mac or just a style change? I need to look at a bad Mac game, anyone know a recent one?

He suggested a style change when he explained his civilian read on DDL:

I feel some of the people townreading me are bad. At least one of them

Feels like one of those games where I manage to post in a very obvious civ way which convinces people, but baddies already noticed that and are blending in.

I might get NKd soon.

I feel like I've been able to civ read you better lately. Things that I used to incorrectly read you as Mafia for I now see as civ traits. Tbh it was mostly my cynicism because I used to read you bad for having strong insights that I chalked up to TMI but I've come to realise that we sort of see the game similarly. The way that I have been handling our interactions in games lately is a lot of the reason I feel my civilian game has improved. That and taking a back seat more. I realised that even though I have strong insight into scum, that brute forcing my opinions into the thread was counterintuitive to civilian wins and started playing more cerebrally. Less plaudits but stronger results. Only took me 8 years.

I haven't really noticed this shift in previous games. I dunno if anyone else feels otherwise who has played more games than I have lately.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am having a hard time catching up. Still have two pages to read but when I’m done with those, it will be four or six. So I’m stopping at this point, and I’ll going to try to make sense of something.
The last game I was in, someone got to use an ability on day 0. That made me think that maybe Nutella had been forced to quote lyrics. Then Jay roleclaims about being able to put a posting curse on someone that stops short of insanification. Wen day 0 is up, Nutella isn’t insulting Jay anymore, and everything is peachy keen. That just pings the crap out of me. Ok. I’m back to reading.

I hope I get time to go back and see who suddenly showed up after Epig post about 24 hours.

I will just state in clear terms: I did not cause nutella to post in lyrics. I don't believe Day 0 actions existed in this game anyway.

[juliets]

Question for the whole gang:

If we lynch a low-poster, who should it be?

If that's not your preferred strategy: great, grand, wonderful. You can still answer the question.

hmmm I think niju. I can remember her running in and posting and not coming back for awhile in another game (last year I think) where she was bad.

[juliets]

Ok here's what I see. I initially liked his posts about DDL and I really liked his reads wall (even tho I didn't agree with everything) because he was explaining why he had the reads he did. Looking back over it though what strikes me is he never does this. He usually just throws out reads with no backup whatsoever and when people question him he ignores it or responds negatively. But is this indicative of a bad Mac or just a style change? I need to look at a bad Mac game, anyone know a recent one?

He suggested a style change when he explained his civilian read on DDL:

I feel some of the people townreading me are bad. At least one of them

Feels like one of those games where I manage to post in a very obvious civ way which convinces people, but baddies already noticed that and are blending in.

I might get NKd soon.

I feel like I've been able to civ read you better lately. Things that I used to incorrectly read you as Mafia for I now see as civ traits. Tbh it was mostly my cynicism because I used to read you bad for having strong insights that I chalked up to TMI but I've come to realise that we sort of see the game similarly. The way that I have been handling our interactions in games lately is a lot of the reason I feel my civilian game has improved. That and taking a back seat more. I realised that even though I have strong insight into scum, that brute forcing my opinions into the thread was counterintuitive to civilian wins and started playing more cerebrally. Less plaudits but stronger results. Only took me 8 years.

I haven't really noticed this shift in previous games. I dunno if anyone else feels otherwise who has played more games than I have lately.

The only thing I have noticed in recent games with him is he has been quieter at the beginning than he used to be. But thats really not the case here.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The reason I ask is this:

When there is a highly active Day 1, and a variety of reads/wagons/initiatives are revolving around the discussion without a good inspiration for confidence (I think we're close to that now), lynching a less-active player is usually a good idea. As it stands my strongest suspicion is on MacDougall. I acknowledge that it isn't rock solid shite, but I haven't seen a single rock solid case in this thread yet. Refer to the last 25% of the video in my signature for more information.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am here! May not be the most active for the next couple days, but I'll see what I can do.

leetic did at least project inactivity for the next couple days, which can generously be extended to the present. I'd still expect more than one post, but I haven't seen him around so

[Jackofhearts2005]

The reason I ask is this:

When there is a highly active Day 1, and a variety of reads/wagons/initiatives are revolving around the discussion without a good inspiration for confidence (I think we're close to that now), lynching a less-active player is usually a good idea. As it stands my strongest suspicion is on MacDougall. I acknowledge that it isn't rock solid shite, but I haven't seen a single rock solid case in this thread yet. Refer to the last 25% of the video in my signature for more information.

Are you classifying Mac as less active?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Happy Easter! Looking forward to playing with you all.

It seems I am unable to post in the poll.

Neverwhere's first two posts are a bit stiff.

Sorry, starting a game Easter weekend was never going to go well for me. I've not been home for like 2 days. Finally got time to catch up and theres 15 pages D: I got through four before realising I was going to be late for physio. I'll be back this afternoon to try and contribute/catch up properly. Apologies all!

I can't blame 'em for struggling to keep up. Arriving to a game like this after it has already exploded is a daunting thing. The remorse at least looks authentic, though I can't say that's something alignment-specific.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The reason I ask is this:

When there is a highly active Day 1, and a variety of reads/wagons/initiatives are revolving around the discussion without a good inspiration for confidence (I think we're close to that now), lynching a less-active player is usually a good idea. As it stands my strongest suspicion is on MacDougall. I acknowledge that it isn't rock solid shite, but I haven't seen a single rock solid case in this thread yet. Refer to the last 25% of the video in my signature for more information.

Are you classifying Mac as less active?

No. He's my choice right now among active participants.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hello friends. Four pages since yesterday evening, eh? Geez.

Donald it is!

Errr, or I would vote Donald, but I seem to be having the same trouble as others on page 1 - I can't vote! Alas.

Shit, I forgot I was playing! It's been too long.

I won't catch up now because I need to leave for trivia in like 10-20 minutes.

Who's suspicious, eh?

niju's posts are at the opposite end of the stiffness spectrum. Three exclamation marks. They're almost gratuitously loose.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I may struggle to be involved during the final 40 minutes of the day. I'll be in class and almost certainly unable to tinker around on my computer/type a bunch of stuff.

[Spacedaisy]

What?

No, if you’re scum with Juliets, that makes Mac town. You treated Mac and Juliets differently. You treated the player you suspect (Juliets) better than the player you don’t (Mac).

Ffs Jack! Why can’t you get it through your skull that I WASN’T DEFENDING JULIETS! I was ACCUSING you for doing something suspicious. I don’t believe Mac or Nova are bad. I do suspect Juliets. And at that point I suspected you too. I can’t decide right now if you are civ and tunneling or just fucking bad because you are totally unwilling to open your goddamn mind for a second and try and see it from my viewpoint. Bsjcjjeudbfkzk c

I’m going to spend my last few hours in Ohio with my dad. I’m still going to be checking in occasionally. I’m still working out where I want to put my vote. But I will cast it.

Why don’t you place it on Juliets for safekeeping?

Jack you would find it suspicious if I did or suspicious if I didn’t.

Let’s just see, shall we? [VOTE: juliets] aubergine

[Jackofhearts2005]

What?

No, if you’re scum with Juliets, that makes Mac town. You treated Mac and Juliets differently. You treated the player you suspect (Juliets) better than the player you don’t (Mac).

Ffs Jack! Why can’t you get it through your skull that I WASN’T DEFENDING JULIETS! I was ACCUSING you for doing something suspicious. I don’t believe Mac or Nova are bad. I do suspect Juliets. And at that point I suspected you too. I can’t decide right now if you are civ and tunneling or just fucking bad because you are totally unwilling to open your goddamn mind for a second and try and see it from my viewpoint. Bsjcjjeudbfkzk c

I’m going to spend my last few hours in Ohio with my dad. I’m still going to be checking in occasionally. I’m still working out where I want to put my vote. But I will cast it.

Why don’t you place it on Juliets for safekeeping?

Jack you would find it suspicious if I did or suspicious if I didn’t.

Let’s just see, shall we? [VOTE: juliets] aubergine

That’s the beauty of it from my end.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: Neverwhere] aubergine

[Spacedaisy]

What?

No, if you’re scum with Juliets, that makes Mac town. You treated Mac and Juliets differently. You treated the player you suspect (Juliets) better than the player you don’t (Mac).

Ffs Jack! Why can’t you get it through your skull that I WASN’T DEFENDING JULIETS! I was ACCUSING you for doing something suspicious. I don’t believe Mac or Nova are bad. I do suspect Juliets. And at that point I suspected you too. I can’t decide right now if you are civ and tunneling or just fucking bad because you are totally unwilling to open your goddamn mind for a second and try and see it from my viewpoint. Bsjcjjeudbfkzk c

I’m going to spend my last few hours in Ohio with my dad. I’m still going to be checking in occasionally. I’m still working out where I want to put my vote. But I will cast it.

You are not understanding what he's saying. He's not saying you defended juliets. He's saying you were set off by his take on juliets because you are attuned to her as a topic but you are also saying you suspect her for bussing purposes. I don't think he could have made this any more clear a few posts up but you two keep talking past each other and it's really frustrating.

I don’t give a shit anymore. Frankly I’m beginning to question his civ kind frame because whereas I feel open to try and understand where things went wrong he is stubbornly following this incorrect suspicion that he has built in his own mind. I would expect a civ to be more willing to at least fucking try to understand.

[nutella]

Ffs can we pick one counterwagon to save me lol

[VOTE: juliets] aubergine

[Jackofhearts2005]

I understand. Either I’m right or you misread my post.

If you’re scum, Juliets is scum. If you’re town, you really suspect Juliets too and maybe she’s scum.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I like juliets. I feel like she is involved more so than usual. I am not entirely sure why that would be but I don't think it is in a bad way and I don't really want to discourage it. I'd give her a light green skittle (if I had skittles to give).

Someone tell me this is not a fake read.

[nutella]

What?

No, if you’re scum with Juliets, that makes Mac town. You treated Mac and Juliets differently. You treated the player you suspect (Juliets) better than the player you don’t (Mac).

Ffs Jack! Why can’t you get it through your skull that I WASN’T DEFENDING JULIETS! I was ACCUSING you for doing something suspicious. I don’t believe Mac or Nova are bad. I do suspect Juliets. And at that point I suspected you too. I can’t decide right now if you are civ and tunneling or just fucking bad because you are totally unwilling to open your goddamn mind for a second and try and see it from my viewpoint. Bsjcjjeudbfkzk c

I’m going to spend my last few hours in Ohio with my dad. I’m still going to be checking in occasionally. I’m still working out where I want to put my vote. But I will cast it.

You are not understanding what he's saying. He's not saying you defended juliets. He's saying you were set off by his take on juliets because you are attuned to her as a topic but you are also saying you suspect her for bussing purposes. I don't think he could have made this any more clear a few posts up but you two keep talking past each other and it's really frustrating.

I don’t give a shit anymore. Frankly I’m beginning to question his civ kind frame because whereas I feel open to try and understand where things went wrong he is stubbornly following this incorrect suspicion that he has built in his own mind. I would expect a civ to be more willing to at least fucking try to understand.

Actually you're the one who isnt trying to understand lol but whatever.

[nutella]

I understand. Either I’m right or you misread my post.

If you’re scum, Juliets is scum. If you’re town, you really suspect Juliets too and maybe she’s scum.

Right so either way we lynch juliets

[Jackofhearts2005]

I understand. Either I’m right or you misread my post.

If you’re scum, Juliets is scum. If you’re town, you really suspect Juliets too and maybe she’s scum.

Right so either way we lynch juliets

I like to call this “strategy.”

[Kites]

Question for the whole gang:

If we lynch a low-poster, who should it be?

If that's not your preferred strategy: great, grand, wonderful. You can still answer the question.

eeny meeny miny moe. i don’t think comparing who used the most exclamation marks or whatever is gonna help there

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I understand. Either I’m right or you misread my post.

If you’re scum, Juliets is scum. If you’re town, you really suspect Juliets too and maybe she’s scum.

Right so either way we lynch juliets

I like to call this “strategy.”

Tell me why juliets is bad without saying anything about Spacedaisy.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Question for the whole gang:

If we lynch a low-poster, who should it be?

If that's not your preferred strategy: great, grand, wonderful. You can still answer the question.

eeny meeny miny moe. i don’t think comparing who used the most exclamation marks or whatever is gonna help there

We have to use the material in front of us, my dude.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I understand. Either I’m right or you misread my post.

If you’re scum, Juliets is scum. If you’re town, you really suspect Juliets too and maybe she’s scum.

Right so either way we lynch juliets

I like to call this “strategy.”

Tell me why juliets is bad without saying anything about Spacedaisy.

She poisoned the well by accusing me of a fake accusation against her just like in VH.

I had not yet accused her of doing anything.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll be clear:

I think the proposed link between Spacedaisy and juliets is a terrible reason to lynch juliets. If that's all there is, then it's the exact opposite of what I consider to be sound Day 1 decision making.

So with that in mind, I really want to hear from anyone what else makes juliets a problem. I can state very vague concerns if I squeeze my brain hard enough. Someone give me something real.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

She poisoned the well by accusing me of a fake accusation against her just like in VH.

I had not yet accused her of doing anything.

So many technicalities and no sense. You've mentioned her as a candidate to be lynched 80 times. That is basically the same thing as [insert accusation here].

I don't understand you, Jackofhearts2005.