Dogs vs. Cats [END]

[Dom]

tbh the TH kill could also be in Dom's favor. How long has it been since they've played a Mafia game together? That would be a lame choice.

Obviously all of this stuff is subject to "but maybe the other mafioso overrode!". I'll consider that player-by-player. I don't think Epignosis gets overrode. I think Dom would be reasonably animated about it too.

I hate commenting on this shit, but...

I would literally kill my teammate before I killed Turnip Head in this game on Night 1.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why are you singling out sprityo and not Michelle?

Michelle has already responded to me, and I think she sounds pretty genuine for the most part. I got nothing for sprityo.

That tracks.

But... why would rej link them, then?

I'm just not sure what the point you're making is.

When he spoke of them as siamese twins (get it?), the implication tended to be vague and negative. He voiced some suspicion early, and then recalled it repeatedly later without developing or acting upon it. I think there's utility there if one of them is a teammate, as it wrongly forges a connection to the other (a civilian). If the civilian goes down, it looks good for the teammate. If the teammate goes down, it looks bad for the civilian.

There's also the general fact that there's literally nothing to say about sprityo and Rej still said things about sprityo.

[novaselinenever]

speedchuck, why Rej?

Because not Dragomir. Dragomir's current play feels scummy, but doesn't make much sense as scumplay on further reflection.

I buy Dragomir's response to pressure better than Rej's. Rej has been on edge since the first time he was prodded.

@Rej what is your absolute favorite thing ever about sprityo in this here game thread?

Gimme a break I cant ISO posts on mobile, can I?

Felt like a disproportionate reaction, hardly worth noting at the time. But it's escalated to the point that he has a vote on you, and that read doesn't seem genuine. He's banking all of his analysis on the one Persona game, which is fallacious as heck. "JJJ isn't doing things exactly like he did in P5" is not a case, it's a justification.

Speedchucks evolution seems well marked here. In fact, he never really jumps on the drago train very hard. Nova, I'm not sure your analysis is fully there.

I don't really like the "current play feels scummy", and how he further reflected on it apparently but it doesn't make sense. Like why doesn't it make sense for him? And where's that reflection at.

I don't mind that his initial take on Rej's thing here, but he seemed to soften up when Jay gave him some more insight on the Persona game and how it was the only game the two player together. It made me think that he didn't really buy his own stuff, and he just pulled Persona out of nowhere.

I don't see the point you originally made, though.

All his game content prior to that post of him having further reflected were about Drago. He wasn't going hard at him like you were, but his game revolved around him and how he was dancing around with it questioning him in a messing around way is the whole shadowing vibe I get.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]novaselinenever[/mention], present take on Fayt?

[novaselinenever]

About JJJ, Rej's read on him made no sense at all and I don't know why he didn't grill him for it. Rej had him as civ yet he thought his suspicion of Drago were forced, then he had him as a scum read. Reminds of the scrimmage game with Ultra and Jay when they were bad together and he had a scum read on him.

[Dom]

There's also the general fact that there's literally nothing to say about sprityo and Rej still said things about sprityo.

I think this is the best point you've got.
And it's the last one you made.

[Fayt]

kinda took a nap, didn't expect this many posts and some votes on JJJ and Dragomir. Hmm. Here are my thoughts

Hmm I stated at the beginning of my earlier post, I don't think scum would start a lynch for me because it would be too risky once I flip. I don't think I'm a very good mislynch either but that's just my opinion on me personally. I also checked your interaction with Rej and it seemed non-fabricated and natural. However, my mind could change. I still have to comb over through everything and I would like to see how the day progresses.

For Mac, I think Rej was trying too hard to set up Mac. Mac is a solid town read from me, I can't see him as a cat.

What did you like about my interaction with Rej? You may be in the minority.

I don't get the scumreads on Dragomir. Sounds a bit forced by JJJ and novas, also it was quite a speedy jump.

Mac is looking OK

There was a thing with Sprityo and Michelle that bothered me. They just quoted each other and then dropped the D0 fluffing. It gave me a "picky" vibe.
I really wait for @sprityo and @Michelle post to deduct further about their alignment in the game.

Again about the above tizzy I feel like JJJ is town. It fits with his previous townplay of engagin agressively to collect as much data as possible from something, I like it and I wanna see more of it through the course of the game!

I am too tired to read a wolf in Drago or novas, in best case I want them to be town with us.

I will go sleep now, I hope I won't have to catch up that much pages when I am at work after I woke up.

JJJ and Mac look worser than before.
Fayt is ok.
Epi is also ok.

So who wanna join a JJJ or Mac lynch?

@Dragomir we must be the best mafia players on earth when people always try to get us dayoned.

Yare yare I come and I have to catch up as fuck on mobile.



Ok switch in scenes: I am sitting on the toilette and have time now:
@JaggedJimmyJay I was neither civ nor scum reading Dragomir. Until you bring me a vital slip I wont scumread Dragomir that easily simple as that. Get used it.

Back to JJJ : I feel you are way too agressive to get a clear civ read from me. I dont know how scum profits from this but we got 2 fast wagons started up. And I feel town does not profit from these wagons. We still have time and need to wait for some replies.

So I have 3 votes on me. And I threw soft suspicion on Michelle and Sprityo. I feel like scum is voting me up in hope that my wagon becomes stronger EoD when others join up to generate an easy mislynch.

I will revisit novas post brb.

You said you didn’t understand the case on Dragomir. That can imply a number of things, and I seek to know precisely what was in your head. You say didn’t read him as a civilian or as mafia. Cool beans. You defended him anyway, before he’d made any truly substantive post, and I am not clear on what’s not to understand. Whether it’s right or not, the beefs with Dragomir were pretty ordinary stuff.

I don’t care whether you give me a “clear civ read”, and I don’t know why you felt it necessary to say that. I’m aggressive, which you seemed to anticipate given your earlier assessment of me (I’ll have to quote it in a separate post, mobile is abysmal). Now I’m all of these at once:

~ Not clear civ
~ Behaving in a way that you don’t know benefits the mafia
~ Looking worse
~ One of two lynch candidates

I don’t see any progression whatsoever leading you here other than “JJJ voted for me”.

Again about the above tizzy I feel like JJJ is town. It fits with his previous townplay of engagin agressively to collect as much data as possible from something, I like it and I wanna see more of it through the course of the game!

This is literally the opposite of what you just said. Getting into tizzies and being aggressive were not only town indicators for you, but you enjoyed it and encouraged more.

What changed?

progression and interaction here felt real from JJJ here. Rej seemed off-putting going from Mac is okay and I think JJJ is town to Let's make a JJJ or Mac lynch! I think he was trying to set something up but found Mac was an easier target than JJJ. Because shortly after JJJ eased off on Rej and Dragomir, Rej immediately goes "what about Mac" as if he's trying to buddy with him. I don't think Rej would have reasons to bus or distance himself from JJJ because he's not in danger of being lynched at all.

If JJJ's plan as scum is to lynch me, it's a terrible idea. Imo. Not only is he under hot water because he fell off of Rej's wagon onto LC, he's going for me who everyone will see that I will flip civ had more people decide to jump on the lynch. I have read some arguments about JJJ, and I will consider them but this is why I leaned town on him.

Rej, as far as I am concerned your vote is on Dragomir right now. You're exploring ideas and asking questions, but the day is over in less than 40 minutes. Who do you want to lynch?

I have my vote nowhere for exactly such a moment. We can agree on doing the Long Con gamble lynch. Else my lynch would be wasted on others I feel, in a sense that we can't get enough votes maybe.
So my vote on Long Con should be bringing us forward.
[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

Gonna take a smoke, gonna check all 5 minute instances.

Dafuq is this

Rej/LC w/w?

[VOTE: rej] aubergine

Let's talk about Rej/LC w/w.

What does w/w mean?

[MacDougall]

wolf wolf... teammates

[JaggedJimmyJay]

About JJJ, Rej's read on him made no sense at all and I don't know why he didn't grill him for it. Rej had him as civ yet he thought his suspicion of Drago were forced, then he had him as a scum read. Reminds of the scrimmage game with Ultra and Jay when they were bad together and he had a scum read on him.

No offense to ol' Rej, but honestly: very few of his posts made sense. That can be called suspicious (rightfully in this case), and I did find some of it suspicious. It can also just be called "I fundamentally do not understand how this guy's brain works, how he conveys his perspectives, and there may even be a language barrier". There was a bit of that in Persona as well.

The latter interpretation gave me doubts. I was never really comfortable with a Rej lynch.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

There's also the general fact that there's literally nothing to say about sprityo and Rej still said things about sprityo.

I think this is the best point you've got.
And it's the last one you made.

There can be no slam dunk case against a man with four posts.

He can still be a cat, and I'm inclined to explore that.

[MacDougall]

Just btw I 100% believe Jay would absolutely kill TH if he thought it was the right move, "site health" be damned. I have wolfed with Jay and cannot in a million years imagine him saying "let's not kill TH because he's only just came back" if TH was empirically the best kill to be made. He'd be like "exterminate the prick and even better because I can say that I'd never do it and dumb shits would believe me muahahaha". Jay is absolutely cold and pragmatic as scum and him even trying that on as defence is scummy as shit.

[novaselinenever]

novaselinenever, present take on Fayt?

Good stuff. Most of my thoughts are linked to their D1 where I liked their energy and how they were trying to participate and share their thoughts. I like how the thoughts aren't usually like the compatibility one, it feels original and genuine. Also that kind isn't usually easy to articulate so it felt like they were stumbling throughout. Bonus points being a newcomer. The Rej lynch looks good, I think they had the opportunity to just stay quiet and give Rej the chance to survive. Don't see the late vote on Rej as a bus seeing how close it was. Also the reason for it was something legit, I had gripes myself with it. Rej had Dragomir as a scumread yet he was going on LC who was a gamble according to him lol.

[MacDougall]

Just btw I 100% believe Jay would absolutely kill TH if he thought it was the right move, "site health" be damned. I have wolfed with Jay and cannot in a million years imagine him saying "let's not kill TH because he's only just came back" if TH was empirically the best kill to be made. He'd be like "exterminate the prick and even better because I can say that I'd never do it and dumb shits would believe me muahahaha". Jay is absolutely cold and pragmatic as scum and him even trying that on as defence is scummy as shit.

[mention]nutella[/mention] you have scummed with Jay, what do you think?

[novaselinenever]

Jay, present take on Mac?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Thanks for expanding [mention]Fayt[/mention]. The points you make are valid, and again I don't think you seem like you're making them up. That's good.

I just have to contend with the surprise that you're the one defending me right now. That's the last thing I would have anticipated entering this day phase. There's a certain degree of instinct that most people face when hounded as a suspect as I did with you entering this phase. To look entirely past that and see me as a civilian, even considering my LC vote and general EoD activity, is... a miraculous display of restraint.

I'll just keep mulling. That's what JJJ does, see? He mulls.

[Fayt]

wolf wolf... teammates

Ah, thanks. I feel like that might be another possibility mainly because if JJJ's theory about bussing at the very end is true, I would look at LC since they were tied and Rej's role might be "weaker" than LC. I found the whole LC train really odd but I can't figure out why. I keep thinking it's because someone was trying to save Rej but I wonder if it's because Rej didn't expect the LC train to pick up from JJJ, Nut, and Michelle.

Rej's comment about being a "gamble" on LC bothers me though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Just btw I 100% believe Jay would absolutely kill TH if he thought it was the right move, "site health" be damned. I have wolfed with Jay and cannot in a million years imagine him saying "let's not kill TH because he's only just came back" if TH was empirically the best kill to be made. He'd be like "exterminate the prick and even better because I can say that I'd never do it and dumb shits would believe me muahahaha". Jay is absolutely cold and pragmatic as scum and him even trying that on as defence is scummy as shit.

Pragmatic certainly, cold nah. If you don't buy it that's fine. I want Turnip Head to stick around and killing him immediately is not the way.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, present take on Mac?

I still lean green. He's living in the theoretical space that I have come to associate with him -- ideas that are at face value perhaps improbable because they require numerous moving parts and conditions. The ideas are not, however, ridiculous to the point of absurd tinfoil etc. I think he looks the part.

[MacDougall]

If anyone wants a rough idea of how JaggedJimmyJay thinks as a Mafia read this.

https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/26LK2KPamm7Az

Then tell me whether you think that cold blooded psychopath would ever spare TH.

[MacDougall]

Jay's kill methodology is always "what is optimal". I don't believe for a second that he'd override the game experience of his wolf teammates in the interest of "site health". It's bunk. It's bullshit.

[novaselinenever]

He killed Sloonei in our game on Bubblegarden, that's all I need to know

[JaggedJimmyJay]

He killed Sloonei in our game on Bubblegarden, that's all I need to know

He's the only guy that actually knows how to read me. Maybe MP too. So yeah they can die.

[MacDougall]

"Alright, crew. At a glance, I think the best advantage we enjoy from the gun in this setup are the numbers. 4 of us and 13 of them represents a manageable situation. For that reason, I think it's paramount (more than it would be in most other games) that we all survive Day 1.

Our collective task is to ensure that at least one civilian is more suspicious than we are."

That is wolf Jay distilled into it's essence. Does a player with that mindset have any room for sympathetic kill choices?

Never not voting Jay. Self vote.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay's kill methodology is always "what is optimal". I don't believe for a second that he'd override the game experience of his wolf teammates in the interest of "site health". It's bunk. It's bullshit.

It is a great personal relief to me that this is untrue. I understand the perception, because in most cases I am all about optimality. I do make exceptions though. Just like I don't lynch newbies on D1.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

"Alright, crew. At a glance, I think the best advantage we enjoy from the gun in this setup are the numbers. 4 of us and 13 of them represents a manageable situation. For that reason, I think it's paramount (more than it would be in most other games) that we all survive Day 1.

Our collective task is to ensure that at least one civilian is more suspicious than we are."

That is wolf Jay distilled into it's essence. Does a player with that mindset have any room for sympathetic kill choices?

Never not voting Jay. Self vote.

Go figure we lost a mafioso Day 1 in that game.

[MacDougall]

Jay's kill methodology is always "what is optimal". I don't believe for a second that he'd override the game experience of his wolf teammates in the interest of "site health". It's bunk. It's bullshit.

It is a great personal relief to me that this is untrue. I understand the perception, because in most cases I am all about optimality. I do make exceptions though. Just like I don't lynch newbies on D1.

Also bullshit

"We have a few viable lynch options. I don't think any of the current leading wagons will be easy though. Gemma and nova both look like the types who will not go quietly. DDL gets mislynched relatively often so maybe. The climate of the thread is improving for him though.

On that front, all three of us will have to be careful. On The Syndicate it is very common for wagons to swing in large motions toward EOD. The present tally might not even matter."

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Most annoying part is that even when my role is revealed you still won't believe me on this point.

[MacDougall]

Well you played yourself and your team if you are a townie and really thought that I'd buy that defence Jay.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ain't never gonna be a game in all of the world where my mafia team loses two men, myself included, on the first two days. I'm awesome.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well you played yourself and your team if you are a townie and really thought that I'd buy that defence Jay.

Oh stow that junk, Mac. It's your job to listen to what I say and give it fair consideration. If you still decide against me, that's fine. If you just sit on your hands and say "I am Mac, I don't believe these things, it's Jay's fault", then you can go choke on a chode my dear boy.

[MacDougall]

"One concern I have is that I think in my civilian body I would be beefing more with you, Mac (not just because you're you, but because of your posts in this game). Your GTH reads in particular raise concerns -- only three mafia, one of whom has 0 posts. I am avoiding these topics, because I don't think it serves to our benefit to just gratuitously distance from each other. Indeed, if I do that too effectively then it just means you get lynched. I do think it could be beneficial though if you could find a way to emerge into this Day 3 with a new hard-line suspicion of any player at all. It'd be easier for me to settle into a dialogue with you about THAT, and more to our benefit, than for me to just make a case against you."

This is the guy we're meant to believe would never kill TH on night 1 because TH hasn't been here in a while.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Meanwhile can I get some more feedback about sprityo please? I don't think anyone said anything but Dom.

[MacDougall]

Well you played yourself and your team if you are a townie and really thought that I'd buy that defence Jay.

Oh stow that junk, Mac. It's your job to listen to what I say and give it fair consideration. If you still decide against me, that's fine. If you just sit on your hands and say "I am Mac, I don't believe these things, it's Jay's fault", then you can go choke on a chode my dear boy.

You would 100% kill TH if you were a wolf and it was an optimal kill. The longer it takes for you to recant the more I will tunnel you.

[sprityo]

Never mind I think Nova is probably town too here.

This is just all town on town hate imo. I want new voices. speedchuck sprityo nutella TonyStarkPrime Fayt Michelle Long Con can you please read Epi's Jay hate wall and comment.

now that ive been unjustly lynched again, i can put my full attention here now

[sprityo]

Meanwhile can I get some more feedback about sprityo please? I don't think anyone said anything but Dom.

ive said approximately nothing and done approximately nothing

any other questions?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Meanwhile can I get some more feedback about sprityo please? I don't think anyone said anything but Dom.

ive said approximately nothing and done approximately nothing

any other questions?

To be true I am not sure you can say much. It's about Rej's treatment of you.

It's good to see you anyway sprityo. It's been a fun Day 2. You should take a dip and see what you think.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well you played yourself and your team if you are a townie and really thought that I'd buy that defence Jay.

Oh stow that junk, Mac. It's your job to listen to what I say and give it fair consideration. If you still decide against me, that's fine. If you just sit on your hands and say "I am Mac, I don't believe these things, it's Jay's fault", then you can go choke on a chode my dear boy.

You would 100% kill TH if you were a wolf and it was an optimal kill. The longer it takes for you to recant the more I will tunnel you.

I don't care if you tunnel me. Tunneling is your weakness, and I think you know that. I will not recant the truth. How about sprityo?

[sprityo]

Meanwhile can I get some more feedback about sprityo please? I don't think anyone said anything but Dom.

ive said approximately nothing and done approximately nothing

any other questions?

To be true I am not sure you can say much. It's about Rej's treatment of you.

It's good to see you anyway sprityo. It's been a fun Day 2. You should take a dip and see what you think.

dont worry, ill stick my big toe into the water

then ill probably drink the same water

[sprityo]

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] where is this rej post i can start at?

[MacDougall]

Well you played yourself and your team if you are a townie and really thought that I'd buy that defence Jay.

Oh stow that junk, Mac. It's your job to listen to what I say and give it fair consideration. If you still decide against me, that's fine. If you just sit on your hands and say "I am Mac, I don't believe these things, it's Jay's fault", then you can go choke on a chode my dear boy.

You would 100% kill TH if you were a wolf and it was an optimal kill. The longer it takes for you to recant the more I will tunnel you.

I don't care if you tunnel me. Tunneling is your weakness, and I think you know that. I will not recant the truth. How about sprityo?

I am going to proceed to spam Jay is Mafia in the thread every time I have a moment to post and do nothing else until you are dead. Thanks.

[MacDougall]

Jay is Mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am going to proceed to spam Jay is Mafia in the thread every time I have a moment to post and do nothing else until you are dead. Thanks.

Cool just make sure you check my posts afterword, k? Everyone always fucking ignores my dead posts except that one Mountain game (heh) and it makes me a sad panda.

[MacDougall]

I am going to proceed to spam Jay is Mafia in the thread every time I have a moment to post and do nothing else until you are dead. Thanks.

Cool just make sure you check my posts afterword, k? Everyone always fucking ignores my dead posts except that one Mountain game (heh) and it makes me a sad panda.

Jay is Mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JaggedJimmyJay where is this rej post i can start at?

Here's something to look at

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] why did you read me as a civilian in the first place?

[MacDougall]

Nah this is genuinely embarrassing play as a civ. I'll stop.

Still consider what I've said. It's pretty cooked.

Moving on.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall why did you read me as a civilian in the first place?

The absence of reason not to.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I mean actually, the entire premise that I am the only person who would kill TH, regardless of whether my claim to morality is believed, is quite silly. The most obvious name to tie to that kill is MacDougall. Mac can be a cat.

[MacDougall]

I mean actually, the entire premise that I am the only person who would kill TH, regardless of whether my claim to morality is believed, is quite silly. The most obvious name to tie to that kill is MacDougall. Mac can be a cat.

Oh really cunt?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Agreed with concern about Rej take. Potential TMI on Dragomir.

Why? What about it strikes as TMI?

I'll answer for him. Firstly, you have been actually pretty scummy. So for Rej to defend you is TMI. Rej has no reason to feel like you have been civvy enough to question the people casing him.

Rej is taking the opportunity to gain your trust by dismissing the case as incredulous, which is invariably how you would feel as a civ. In the event of a civilian flip of you he is distanced from the case making of a bad lynch, which is where people first look for wolves (even though it's usually never that simple).

Now, onto Fayt, who we have common ground on.

This post smells like a litter box. Paints quite a big picture of events. "Actually pretty scummy"? Mac is purring like a devil

"Let me tell you eight thousand ways that JJJ would kill TH"