Inception [END]

[Evenstar]

Also give me your Michelle read.

[Master Radishes]

Radishes, because of everything that happened in D4, plus compelling reasons that I can't share. Willing to let the vig get him though.

Why can't you share with the class? I'm assuming it can't be PR-related, since you're the Mason, so surely you're allowed to, since it will presumaby help the Town solve the game.

If I share with the class I'll be modkilled. I asked. Also, I'm like 99% sure that you specifically already know what it is I'm trying to claim and you're just trolling me.

I have to give you credit, Eva, you don't go down easily.

Being heavily sussed? No problem, just imply some sinister mechanics that no one can prove or disprove to discredit your opponent.

I mean, it's working so far since no one seems ready to vote you. It's impressive.

If I leave the Nutella wagon right now and join Evenstar's, will you join with me?

I think it's fairly obvious my vote is ending up on her today. I was going to play with some other wagons first, but if you insist.

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

[Evenstar]

@Master Radishes you gave up to the Elephant wagon. what made you switch?

the fact that he never intended to lynch me today in the first place

[nutella]

Here's a question for the Syndicate people. I'm not used to playing with role points. Would the power roles usually still have role points left this far into the game, or would they be spent? Or would the PRs have kept a RP saved up? How would new players handle this?
The thought behind this is, is it safe to talk about PRs now? If the RPs are spent, we are all as good as vanilla now, and if we can identify roles, we have townclears.

The role point mechanic is new to us as well lol.

[Hyena]

Radishes, because of everything that happened in D4, plus compelling reasons that I can't share. Willing to let the vig get him though.

Why can't you share with the class? I'm assuming it can't be PR-related, since you're the Mason, so surely you're allowed to, since it will presumaby help the Town solve the game.

If I share with the class I'll be modkilled. I asked. Also, I'm like 99% sure that you specifically already know what it is I'm trying to claim and you're just trolling me.

I have to give you credit, Eva, you don't go down easily.

Being heavily sussed? No problem, just imply some sinister mechanics that no one can prove or disprove to discredit your opponent.

I mean, it's working so far since no one seems ready to vote you. It's impressive.

If I leave the Nutella wagon right now and join Evenstar's, will you join with me?

He'll never lynch me today, even though he scumreads me. I really hope you're seeing what I'm saying here.

[mention]Master Radishes[/mention]
Evenstar is daring you right now to vote her and try to get her lynched. I'm happy to oblige helping you lynch her, but I want to see you join her wagon.

[juliets]

From my catch-up, one thing that I think might not be clear is one reason people were looking at TLib as possible scum is because several of us read GH's article Stopping the Juggernaut after we kept mislynching people.

The article is about what to do when from a town perspective the game is going horribly wrong, i.e., how to find the wolves. In it he says "Firstly, we have the player quietly in the POE but isn't really pushed. What makes this archetype so important is that it has a high chance of flipping wolf." (There's more about this but this line sums it up.) This described TLib pretty well. He didn't have much to say most of the time but we could see that he was in the thread, he was generally toward the bottom of our list, and we had not pushed him hard. This wasn't the only reason people were looking at TLib but it was one of the reasons I was looking at him.

I urge @Trustworthy Liberal to get more involved today and give his thoughts if he is town. I would like to be able to town read him like I did at the beginning of day 2 after he voted Drago.

Okay am online now and going to try to play for a bit but you are already wrong in this post. The bolded I completely wrong I've been pushed multiple times and been one of the main counter wagon this game also you bringing the article and using I to push me I retrospect is slightly sus I my opinion.

I've had a bad weekend and every time I was able to play people were fighting and seemingly attacking each other I posts some getting personal which I extremely aganist how i ever want to play and why I kinda just walked away for yesterday sorry just now playing with that kinda attatude.

I am strongly against TL lynch today, this post shows no agenda, while scum with visible agenda have town points and free pass.

Time for me to keep my word, i will Iso TL from now on.

Michelle, can you discuss why you are against a TL lynch today or do you need to do the iso first?

[Evenstar]

Radishes, because of everything that happened in D4, plus compelling reasons that I can't share. Willing to let the vig get him though.

Why can't you share with the class? I'm assuming it can't be PR-related, since you're the Mason, so surely you're allowed to, since it will presumaby help the Town solve the game.

If I share with the class I'll be modkilled. I asked. Also, I'm like 99% sure that you specifically already know what it is I'm trying to claim and you're just trolling me.

I have to give you credit, Eva, you don't go down easily.

Being heavily sussed? No problem, just imply some sinister mechanics that no one can prove or disprove to discredit your opponent.

I mean, it's working so far since no one seems ready to vote you. It's impressive.

If I leave the Nutella wagon right now and join Evenstar's, will you join with me?

I think it's fairly obvious my vote is ending up on her today. I was going to play with some other wagons first, but if you insist.

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

nice bluff I think I'll call it

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

[Trustworthy Liberal]

From my catch-up, one thing that I think might not be clear is one reason people were looking at TLib as possible scum is because several of us read GH's article Stopping the Juggernaut after we kept mislynching people.

The article is about what to do when from a town perspective the game is going horribly wrong, i.e., how to find the wolves. In it he says "Firstly, we have the player quietly in the POE but isn't really pushed. What makes this archetype so important is that it has a high chance of flipping wolf." (There's more about this but this line sums it up.) This described TLib pretty well. He didn't have much to say most of the time but we could see that he was in the thread, he was generally toward the bottom of our list, and we had not pushed him hard. This wasn't the only reason people were looking at TLib but it was one of the reasons I was looking at him.

I urge @Trustworthy Liberal to get more involved today and give his thoughts if he is town. I would like to be able to town read him like I did at the beginning of day 2 after he voted Drago.

Okay am online now and going to try to play for a bit but you are already wrong in this post. The bolded I completely wrong I've been pushed multiple times and been one of the main counter wagon this game also you bringing the article and using I to push me I retrospect is slightly sus I my opinion.

I've had a bad weekend and every time I was able to play people were fighting and seemingly attacking each other I posts some getting personal which I extremely aganist how i ever want to play and why I kinda just walked away for yesterday sorry just now playing with that kinda attatude.

Trustworthy, sorry to hear about your weekend and I understand you walking away from the game yesterday.

Are you saying that you were pushed and that's the part of the statement that is wrong? I can remember people voting you I just don't remember anyone really pushing it except maybe Benson but then he died that night. If this is not what you meant please let me know.

I have been pushed as the thrid counter wagons each day even was an attempt D1.

Long Con as another example pushed a case of my Hal way D2 and hasn't stoped trying to get me lynched I havn't seen a revaluation from him since D2.

I know they flipped but both Vanuty and Creature were ready to kill me without a case just because I was scum readying vanity yes I was wrong but still was do case behind them.

I am missing some but don't want call out people wrongly but you've also been pushing me since you posted that article

i really need to ask would a scum game of mine help to view I would be me subbing it later in the game think D3, but it's tge only forum one i have rest are town.

[Hyena]

Radishes, because of everything that happened in D4, plus compelling reasons that I can't share. Willing to let the vig get him though.

Why can't you share with the class? I'm assuming it can't be PR-related, since you're the Mason, so surely you're allowed to, since it will presumaby help the Town solve the game.

If I share with the class I'll be modkilled. I asked. Also, I'm like 99% sure that you specifically already know what it is I'm trying to claim and you're just trolling me.

I have to give you credit, Eva, you don't go down easily.

Being heavily sussed? No problem, just imply some sinister mechanics that no one can prove or disprove to discredit your opponent.

I mean, it's working so far since no one seems ready to vote you. It's impressive.

If I leave the Nutella wagon right now and join Evenstar's, will you join with me?

I think it's fairly obvious my vote is ending up on her today. I was going to play with some other wagons first, but if you insist.

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

Cool.
[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

[nutella]

Elephant 4 [Long Con, iaafr, Michelle, Nutella]
JackofHearts2005 2 [Epignosis, Dom]
Long Con 2 [Macdougall, JackofHearts2005]
Nutella 2 [Lady Lambdadelta, Evenstar]
Evenstar 2 [112, Sprityo]
Epignosis 1 [Pawn Lelouch]
Hyena 1 [Master Radishes]
iaafr 1 [Quin]
Dom 1[Elephant]
Trustworthy Liberal 1 [Hyena]

3 Not Voting: Juliets, ColinisCool, Trustworthy Liberal

17 votes cast and the largest wagon is 4.

What an absolutely atrocious votal. We need to get our shit together.

(I guess it's better than "nova/jack is obvious scum, lol", but not by much.)

@Hyena
@Elephant
@Quin
@Master Radishes
@Pawn Lelouch

All of you, make your strongest case for why the person you are on right now deserves to be in contention. If you don't have a case you're willing to put time in to defend, vote someone else.

@juliets
@ColinIsCool
@Trustworthy Liberal

This may be the most important day phase in the entire game. We need your input. Put a damn vote down already.

Dom is an infolynch at this point. If he flips scum, Michelle is absolutely town, unless she refuses to commit -- and if she refuses, I need to re-evaluate her.
I have made a case on Radishes for the F3 lynch.
Lynching in my group is straight POE.

Sorry, hold on. You want to infolynch at this stage ? And you want it to be Dom, because it'll clear Michelle?

I have too much respect for you to think that's town mindset logic.

I'm not convincing you anyway. You're not baiting me here.

Fine, I'll try to cut down the sass. I do mean it that I respect you, though.

But we're not lynching Dom today just to see how that makes Michelle look. We are far too deep into this game, and the mafia are doing far too well, to be wasting a lynch on that. Vote for Dom if he's a wolf, not because he's an info lynch.

If Michelle is town, Dom is 100% a wolf, pending Michelle's reaction.

uh what why

[Master Radishes]

He'll never lynch me today, even though he scumreads me. I really hope you're seeing what I'm saying here.

You literally just described what you're doing.

[Hyena]

Radishes, because of everything that happened in D4, plus compelling reasons that I can't share. Willing to let the vig get him though.

Why can't you share with the class? I'm assuming it can't be PR-related, since you're the Mason, so surely you're allowed to, since it will presumaby help the Town solve the game.

If I share with the class I'll be modkilled. I asked. Also, I'm like 99% sure that you specifically already know what it is I'm trying to claim and you're just trolling me.

I have to give you credit, Eva, you don't go down easily.

Being heavily sussed? No problem, just imply some sinister mechanics that no one can prove or disprove to discredit your opponent.

I mean, it's working so far since no one seems ready to vote you. It's impressive.

If I leave the Nutella wagon right now and join Evenstar's, will you join with me?

I think it's fairly obvious my vote is ending up on her today. I was going to play with some other wagons first, but if you insist.

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

nice bluff I think I'll call it

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

Awesome. <3

[Evenstar]

Go ahead, Radishes. Lynch me. I would bet money you'll be off my wagon come EoD.

[Michelle]

@Master Radishes you gave up to the Elephant wagon. what made you switch?

the fact that he never intended to lynch me today in the first place

not every player who starts with E is Eve, I don't see the connection between not lynching you and leaving Elephant wagon

[sprityo]

[Master Radishes]

Go ahead, Radishes. Lynch me. I would bet money you'll be off my wagon come EoD.

Lmao I don't even get what you're doing here but I love it.

[Hyena]

Go ahead, Radishes. Lynch me. I would bet money you'll be off my wagon come EoD.

If he does, should I vote for him or Nutella?

[Elephant]

From my catch-up, one thing that I think might not be clear is one reason people were looking at TLib as possible scum is because several of us read GH's article Stopping the Juggernaut after we kept mislynching people.

The article is about what to do when from a town perspective the game is going horribly wrong, i.e., how to find the wolves. In it he says "Firstly, we have the player quietly in the POE but isn't really pushed. What makes this archetype so important is that it has a high chance of flipping wolf." (There's more about this but this line sums it up.) This described TLib pretty well. He didn't have much to say most of the time but we could see that he was in the thread, he was generally toward the bottom of our list, and we had not pushed him hard. This wasn't the only reason people were looking at TLib but it was one of the reasons I was looking at him.

I urge @Trustworthy Liberal to get more involved today and give his thoughts if he is town. I would like to be able to town read him like I did at the beginning of day 2 after he voted Drago.

Okay am online now and going to try to play for a bit but you are already wrong in this post. The bolded I completely wrong I've been pushed multiple times and been one of the main counter wagon this game also you bringing the article and using I to push me I retrospect is slightly sus I my opinion.

I've had a bad weekend and every time I was able to play people were fighting and seemingly attacking each other I posts some getting personal which I extremely aganist how i ever want to play and why I kinda just walked away for yesterday sorry just now playing with that kinda attatude.

Trustworthy, sorry to hear about your weekend and I understand you walking away from the game yesterday.

Are you saying that you were pushed and that's the part of the statement that is wrong? I can remember people voting you I just don't remember anyone really pushing it except maybe Benson but then he died that night. If this is not what you meant please let me know.

The thing about TLiberal pushes is that the best push was the case that Long Con posted on D2. It just never got any better than that.

[Evenstar]

Why can't you share with the class? I'm assuming it can't be PR-related, since you're the Mason, so surely you're allowed to, since it will presumaby help the Town solve the game.

If I share with the class I'll be modkilled. I asked. Also, I'm like 99% sure that you specifically already know what it is I'm trying to claim and you're just trolling me.

I have to give you credit, Eva, you don't go down easily.

Being heavily sussed? No problem, just imply some sinister mechanics that no one can prove or disprove to discredit your opponent.

I mean, it's working so far since no one seems ready to vote you. It's impressive.

If I leave the Nutella wagon right now and join Evenstar's, will you join with me?

I think it's fairly obvious my vote is ending up on her today. I was going to play with some other wagons first, but if you insist.

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

nice bluff I think I'll call it

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

Awesome. <3

by the way Hyena we're up to hydra tomorrow

gonna be so fucking fun

[Evenstar]

@Master Radishes you gave up to the Elephant wagon. what made you switch?

the fact that he never intended to lynch me today in the first place

not every player who starts with E is Eve, I don't see the connection between not lynching you and leaving Elephant wagon

oh, I thought you were talking about him leaving my wagon to go vote Elephant

[juliets]

From my catch-up, one thing that I think might not be clear is one reason people were looking at TLib as possible scum is because several of us read GH's article Stopping the Juggernaut after we kept mislynching people.

The article is about what to do when from a town perspective the game is going horribly wrong, i.e., how to find the wolves. In it he says "Firstly, we have the player quietly in the POE but isn't really pushed. What makes this archetype so important is that it has a high chance of flipping wolf." (There's more about this but this line sums it up.) This described TLib pretty well. He didn't have much to say most of the time but we could see that he was in the thread, he was generally toward the bottom of our list, and we had not pushed him hard. This wasn't the only reason people were looking at TLib but it was one of the reasons I was looking at him.

I urge @Trustworthy Liberal to get more involved today and give his thoughts if he is town. I would like to be able to town read him like I did at the beginning of day 2 after he voted Drago.

Okay am online now and going to try to play for a bit but you are already wrong in this post. The bolded I completely wrong I've been pushed multiple times and been one of the main counter wagon this game also you bringing the article and using I to push me I retrospect is slightly sus I my opinion.

I've had a bad weekend and every time I was able to play people were fighting and seemingly attacking each other I posts some getting personal which I extremely aganist how i ever want to play and why I kinda just walked away for yesterday sorry just now playing with that kinda attatude.

Trustworthy, sorry to hear about your weekend and I understand you walking away from the game yesterday.

Are you saying that you were pushed and that's the part of the statement that is wrong? I can remember people voting you I just don't remember anyone really pushing it except maybe Benson but then he died that night. If this is not what you meant please let me know.

I have been pushed as the thrid counter wagons each day even was an attempt D1.

Long Con as another example pushed a case of my Hal way D2 and hasn't stoped trying to get me lynched I havn't seen a revaluation from him since D2.

I know they flipped but both Vanuty and Creature were ready to kill me without a case just because I was scum readying vanity yes I was wrong but still was do case behind them.

I am missing some but don't want call out people wrongly but you've also been pushing me since you posted that article

i really need to ask would a scum game of mine help to view I would be me subbing it later in the game think D3, but it's tge only forum one i have rest are town.

Yes Trustworthy I think it might help me.

Also, who do you think the wolf or wolves in our group are (the group we came from)?

[Hyena]

If I share with the class I'll be modkilled. I asked. Also, I'm like 99% sure that you specifically already know what it is I'm trying to claim and you're just trolling me.

I have to give you credit, Eva, you don't go down easily.

Being heavily sussed? No problem, just imply some sinister mechanics that no one can prove or disprove to discredit your opponent.

I mean, it's working so far since no one seems ready to vote you. It's impressive.

If I leave the Nutella wagon right now and join Evenstar's, will you join with me?

I think it's fairly obvious my vote is ending up on her today. I was going to play with some other wagons first, but if you insist.

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

nice bluff I think I'll call it

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

Awesome. <3

by the way Hyena we're up to hydra tomorrow

gonna be so fucking fun

I KNOW!!! I just saw the announcement earlier today! I'm fucking pumped!

[Michelle]

Spoiler: show

Elephant 4 [Long Con, iaafr, Michelle, Nutella]
JackofHearts2005 2 [Epignosis, Dom]
Long Con 2 [Macdougall, JackofHearts2005]
Nutella 2 [Lady Lambdadelta, Evenstar]
Evenstar 2 [112, Sprityo]
Epignosis 1 [Pawn Lelouch]
Hyena 1 [Master Radishes]
iaafr 1 [Quin]
Dom 1[Elephant]
Trustworthy Liberal 1 [Hyena]

3 Not Voting: Juliets, ColinisCool, Trustworthy Liberal

17 votes cast and the largest wagon is 4.

What an absolutely atrocious votal. We need to get our shit together.

(I guess it's better than "nova/jack is obvious scum, lol", but not by much.)

@Hyena
@Elephant
@Quin
@Master Radishes
@Pawn Lelouch

All of you, make your strongest case for why the person you are on right now deserves to be in contention. If you don't have a case you're willing to put time in to defend, vote someone else.

@juliets
@ColinIsCool
@Trustworthy Liberal

This may be the most important day phase in the entire game. We need your input. Put a damn vote down already.

Dom is an infolynch at this point. If he flips scum, Michelle is absolutely town, unless she refuses to commit -- and if she refuses, I need to re-evaluate her.
I have made a case on Radishes for the F3 lynch.
Lynching in my group is straight POE.

Sorry, hold on. You want to infolynch at this stage ? And you want it to be Dom, because it'll clear Michelle?

I have too much respect for you to think that's town mindset logic.

I'm not convincing you anyway. You're not baiting me here.

Fine, I'll try to cut down the sass. I do mean it that I respect you, though.

But we're not lynching Dom today just to see how that makes Michelle look. We are far too deep into this game, and the mafia are doing far too well, to be wasting a lynch on that. Vote for Dom if he's a wolf, not because he's an info lynch.

If Michelle is town, Dom is 100% a wolf, pending Michelle's reaction.

uh what why

TMI= too much information.
He knows i am villager and of course if we succeed to lynch scum Elephant today and proove my read, this post means Dom is indeed scum.

[nutella]

@112, @Sprityo
@Macdougall, @JackofHearts2005
@Epignosis, @Dom
@Lady LambdaDelta, (myself)

All of you are on a two-person lynch train. I want answers to the following three questions:
1: Why are you voting for your current target?
2: Why is the other person on your wagon voting for them?
3: Do you think the other person on your wagon is scum? Why or why not?
4: How does your read of your partner on this wagon affect your read of your target?
5: If your target flipped town, how would that affect your read of your partner?

For me, that's:
1: Nutella...
- Has a terrible voting history, having MLed 3 townies in a row.
- Tinfoiled me hard enough to be seriously questioning mech, but her vote on me didn't stick.
- Responds to pressure by trying to discredit her attackers, rather than their arguments.
- Continuously engages with people scumreading her for "no reason", rather than dismissing them as wrong and/or scum.
- Scumreads Pawn, who is my hardest townread in this entire game.
- Is supporting Epi's terrible "there was nothing really on the line in the 'F3', so it was fake" argument, which is blatantly wrong.
- Agrees that Epi might have access to other threads, but refuses to consider the obvious possibility that this makes him mafia. Characterizes this argument as "You think he's scum hinting that he's scum", and implies that I could only think this due to sleep deprivation... while also being one of like two people questioning whether I'm Spiny's mason partner. Why isn't she willing to consider that Epi could be falseclaiming?
- Went along with Dom's ridiculous "Eva is claiming vig" thing as well. Very willing to try to discredit me by whatever means necessary.

This post:

Lexi, the only thing you've done this game is insist I'm scum. When I flip town what will you do? I'm legitimately concerned for what it will do to your mental and emotional health.

2: My read is that Lexi's voting for Nutella for similar reasons to mine - to exert pressure on someone with a bad voting history. As Nutella's reactions continued to deteriorate into outright worrying for Lexi's mental health - seriously, that's textbook gaslighting - Lexi just kept digging in her claws and becoming more convinced that Nutella was scum. I agree with her 100%, and I want to see Nutella lynched today.

3: Lexi could still be scum, but her anger and increduilty in her exchanges with Nutella are very real. Her very apparent exhaustion also speaks to my soul; I can see no reason why scum would be exhausted right now, since this game seems like it ought to have been a cakewalk for them so far. If she is scum, getting the flip of one of her major, talons-in targets is the best way I know how to read her.

4: If I thought Lexi was likely to be scum, I would not be on this wagon.

5: If Nutella flipped town, I would instantly suspect Lexi. Outright pushing mislynches is very much in her meta.

How is that gaslighting though? Like, I'm sorry, and I'm sorry if it hurt Lexi, but I meant it seriously. I think she will react badly to my flip if she doesn't have an open mind about it.

[Michelle]

@Master Radishes you gave up to the Elephant wagon. what made you switch?

the fact that he never intended to lynch me today in the first place

not every player who starts with E is Eve, I don't see the connection between not lynching you and leaving Elephant wagon

oh, I thought you were talking about him leaving my wagon to go vote Elephant

I don't understand why you see Elephant as town, is your read, ok, I can live with this. But you voting for yourself, this is antitown :/
I wonder why Pawn has a TR on you and how come I myself I townlean you.

[Trustworthy Liberal]

From my catch-up, one thing that I think might not be clear is one reason people were looking at TLib as possible scum is because several of us read GH's article Stopping the Juggernaut after we kept mislynching people.

The article is about what to do when from a town perspective the game is going horribly wrong, i.e., how to find the wolves. In it he says "Firstly, we have the player quietly in the POE but isn't really pushed. What makes this archetype so important is that it has a high chance of flipping wolf." (There's more about this but this line sums it up.) This described TLib pretty well. He didn't have much to say most of the time but we could see that he was in the thread, he was generally toward the bottom of our list, and we had not pushed him hard. This wasn't the only reason people were looking at TLib but it was one of the reasons I was looking at him.

I urge @Trustworthy Liberal to get more involved today and give his thoughts if he is town. I would like to be able to town read him like I did at the beginning of day 2 after he voted Drago.

Okay am online now and going to try to play for a bit but you are already wrong in this post. The bolded I completely wrong I've been pushed multiple times and been one of the main counter wagon this game also you bringing the article and using I to push me I retrospect is slightly sus I my opinion.

I've had a bad weekend and every time I was able to play people were fighting and seemingly attacking each other I posts some getting personal which I extremely aganist how i ever want to play and why I kinda just walked away for yesterday sorry just now playing with that kinda attatude.

Trustworthy, sorry to hear about your weekend and I understand you walking away from the game yesterday.

Are you saying that you were pushed and that's the part of the statement that is wrong? I can remember people voting you I just don't remember anyone really pushing it except maybe Benson but then he died that night. If this is not what you meant please let me know.

I have been pushed as the thrid counter wagons each day even was an attempt D1.

Long Con as another example pushed a case of my Hal way D2 and hasn't stoped trying to get me lynched I havn't seen a revaluation from him since D2.

I know they flipped but both Vanuty and Creature were ready to kill me without a case just because I was scum readying vanity yes I was wrong but still was do case behind them.

I am missing some but don't want call out people wrongly but you've also been pushing me since you posted that article

i really need to ask would a scum game of mine help to view I would be me subbing it later in the game think D3, but it's tge only forum one i have rest are town.

Yes Trustworthy I think it might help me.

Also, who do you think the wolf or wolves in our group are (the group we came from)?

Can't get a good read on Elephant which isn't good but makes me feel he could be one

Long Con seems highly likely having really been focusing me this game doesn't look good for them honestly and as stated before nothing after the first case.

Juliets reading you as slight town but highest I group.

Hyena/Nutella out of the remainder of if there are two is a possibility but less likely

My level reads list

Juliets
Nutella
Hyena
Elephant
Long Con

That's about where am at also only just realizing how many died I our group already

[Elephant]

Spoiler: show

Dom is an infolynch at this point. If he flips scum, Michelle is absolutely town, unless she refuses to commit -- and if she refuses, I need to re-evaluate her.
I have made a case on Radishes for the F3 lynch.
Lynching in my group is straight POE.

Sorry, hold on. You want to infolynch at this stage ? And you want it to be Dom, because it'll clear Michelle?

I have too much respect for you to think that's town mindset logic.

I'm not convincing you anyway. You're not baiting me here.

Fine, I'll try to cut down the sass. I do mean it that I respect you, though.

But we're not lynching Dom today just to see how that makes Michelle look. We are far too deep into this game, and the mafia are doing far too well, to be wasting a lynch on that. Vote for Dom if he's a wolf, not because he's an info lynch.

If Michelle is town, Dom is 100% a wolf, pending Michelle's reaction.

uh what why

TMI= too much information.
He knows i am villager and of course if we succeed to lynch scum Elephant today and proove my read, this post means Dom is indeed scum.

Would you commit to saying that your alignment is always opposite Dom's?
Would me flipping town make you reconsider?

[Elephant]

I have to give you credit, Eva, you don't go down easily.

Being heavily sussed? No problem, just imply some sinister mechanics that no one can prove or disprove to discredit your opponent.

I mean, it's working so far since no one seems ready to vote you. It's impressive.

If I leave the Nutella wagon right now and join Evenstar's, will you join with me?

I think it's fairly obvious my vote is ending up on her today. I was going to play with some other wagons first, but if you insist.

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

nice bluff I think I'll call it

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

Awesome. <3

by the way Hyena we're up to hydra tomorrow

gonna be so fucking fun

I KNOW!!! I just saw the announcement earlier today! I'm fucking pumped!

Watch out for Chicago Wolf Band!

[juliets]

From my catch-up, one thing that I think might not be clear is one reason people were looking at TLib as possible scum is because several of us read GH's article Stopping the Juggernaut after we kept mislynching people.

The article is about what to do when from a town perspective the game is going horribly wrong, i.e., how to find the wolves. In it he says "Firstly, we have the player quietly in the POE but isn't really pushed. What makes this archetype so important is that it has a high chance of flipping wolf." (There's more about this but this line sums it up.) This described TLib pretty well. He didn't have much to say most of the time but we could see that he was in the thread, he was generally toward the bottom of our list, and we had not pushed him hard. This wasn't the only reason people were looking at TLib but it was one of the reasons I was looking at him.

I urge @Trustworthy Liberal to get more involved today and give his thoughts if he is town. I would like to be able to town read him like I did at the beginning of day 2 after he voted Drago.

Okay am online now and going to try to play for a bit but you are already wrong in this post. The bolded I completely wrong I've been pushed multiple times and been one of the main counter wagon this game also you bringing the article and using I to push me I retrospect is slightly sus I my opinion.

I've had a bad weekend and every time I was able to play people were fighting and seemingly attacking each other I posts some getting personal which I extremely aganist how i ever want to play and why I kinda just walked away for yesterday sorry just now playing with that kinda attatude.

Trustworthy, sorry to hear about your weekend and I understand you walking away from the game yesterday.

Are you saying that you were pushed and that's the part of the statement that is wrong? I can remember people voting you I just don't remember anyone really pushing it except maybe Benson but then he died that night. If this is not what you meant please let me know.

I have been pushed as the thrid counter wagons each day even was an attempt D1.

Long Con as another example pushed a case of my Hal way D2 and hasn't stoped trying to get me lynched I havn't seen a revaluation from him since D2.

I know they flipped but both Vanuty and Creature were ready to kill me without a case just because I was scum readying vanity yes I was wrong but still was do case behind them.

I am missing some but don't want call out people wrongly but you've also been pushing me since you posted that article

i really need to ask would a scum game of mine help to view I would be me subbing it later in the game think D3, but it's tge only forum one i have rest are town.

Yes Trustworthy I think it might help me.

Also, who do you think the wolf or wolves in our group are (the group we came from)?

Can't get a good read on Elephant which isn't good but makes me feel he could be one

Long Con seems highly likely having really been focusing me this game doesn't look good for them honestly and as stated before nothing after the first case.

Juliets reading you as slight town but highest I group.

Hyena/Nutella out of the remainder of if there are two is a possibility but less likely

My level reads list

Juliets
Nutella
Hyena
Elephant
Long Con

That's about where am at also only just realizing how many died I our group already

Thank you. I am also uneasy about Long Con but so many people here have a high opinion of him, as did vanity, that it makes me doubt myself.

[nutella]

@112, @Sprityo
@Macdougall, @JackofHearts2005
@Epignosis, @Dom
@Lady LambdaDelta, (myself)

All of you are on a two-person lynch train. I want answers to the following three questions:
1: Why are you voting for your current target?
2: Why is the other person on your wagon voting for them?
3: Do you think the other person on your wagon is scum? Why or why not?
4: How does your read of your partner on this wagon affect your read of your target?
5: If your target flipped town, how would that affect your read of your partner?

For me, that's:
1: Nutella...
- Has a terrible voting history, having MLed 3 townies in a row.
- Tinfoiled me hard enough to be seriously questioning mech, but her vote on me didn't stick.
- Responds to pressure by trying to discredit her attackers, rather than their arguments.
- Continuously engages with people scumreading her for "no reason", rather than dismissing them as wrong and/or scum.
- Scumreads Pawn, who is my hardest townread in this entire game.
- Is supporting Epi's terrible "there was nothing really on the line in the 'F3', so it was fake" argument, which is blatantly wrong.
- Agrees that Epi might have access to other threads, but refuses to consider the obvious possibility that this makes him mafia. Characterizes this argument as "You think he's scum hinting that he's scum", and implies that I could only think this due to sleep deprivation... while also being one of like two people questioning whether I'm Spiny's mason partner. Why isn't she willing to consider that Epi could be falseclaiming?
- Went along with Dom's ridiculous "Eva is claiming vig" thing as well. Very willing to try to discredit me by whatever means necessary.

This post:

Lexi, the only thing you've done this game is insist I'm scum. When I flip town what will you do? I'm legitimately concerned for what it will do to your mental and emotional health.

2: My read is that Lexi's voting for Nutella for similar reasons to mine - to exert pressure on someone with a bad voting history. As Nutella's reactions continued to deteriorate into outright worrying for Lexi's mental health - seriously, that's textbook gaslighting - Lexi just kept digging in her claws and becoming more convinced that Nutella was scum. I agree with her 100%, and I want to see Nutella lynched today.

3: Lexi could still be scum, but her anger and increduilty in her exchanges with Nutella are very real. Her very apparent exhaustion also speaks to my soul; I can see no reason why scum would be exhausted right now, since this game seems like it ought to have been a cakewalk for them so far. If she is scum, getting the flip of one of her major, talons-in targets is the best way I know how to read her.

4: If I thought Lexi was likely to be scum, I would not be on this wagon.

5: If Nutella flipped town, I would instantly suspect Lexi. Outright pushing mislynches is very much in her meta.

Also, I have been leaning town on pawn for a while. Show me where I've discredited people for attacking me other than Lexi who did not have actual arguments for me to address. I literally disagreed with epi about the f3 thing so idk where you're getting that point from. And you're misinterpreting the thing I said about epi accessing threads in a pretty ridiculous way. And I very quickly realized you hadn't actually claimed big, I just had a snap reaction to a post I saw our of context.

[Evenstar]

Go ahead, Radishes. Lynch me. I would bet money you'll be off my wagon come EoD.

If he does, should I vote for him or Nutella?

If he does lynch me then the vig will get him, so vote Nutella lol

[Trustworthy Liberal]

Here is my scum game link is to were I subbed into.

h

Spoiler: show

ttps://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/24 ... ost3604910

[Hyena]

If I leave the Nutella wagon right now and join Evenstar's, will you join with me?

I think it's fairly obvious my vote is ending up on her today. I was going to play with some other wagons first, but if you insist.

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

nice bluff I think I'll call it

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

Awesome. <3

by the way Hyena we're up to hydra tomorrow

gonna be so fucking fun

I KNOW!!! I just saw the announcement earlier today! I'm fucking pumped!

Watch out for Chicago Wolf Band!

Hehe, yeah, I saw you there, too, as well as a couple of other people from this game!

[Epignosis]

All of you are on a two-person lynch train. I want answers to the following three questions:
1: Why are you voting for your current target?
2: Why is the other person on your wagon voting for them?
3: Do you think the other person on your wagon is scum? Why or why not?
4: How does your read of your partner on this wagon affect your read of your target?
5: If your target flipped town, how would that affect your read of your partner?

Which three questions?

- Is supporting Epi's terrible "there was nothing really on the line in the 'F3', so it was fake" argument, which is blatantly wrong.

That's a lazy characterization of what I said. I said it was not a lynch. I didn't say "nothing really was on the line." I don't know if anything was. I said it wasn't a lynch, which is demonstrably true.

Okay, sure, the player who got lynched is not oit of the game. Nonetheless, in order for it to be meaningful there must have been at least one scum in that group.

(Possibility of scum-3p-town, but unlikely.)

You're assuming it was meaningful. That's a dangerous assumption is all I'm saying. If you're wrong, you've cost the civilian faction three lynches.

But you're full of bad assumptions. I've come to expect it.

You're still assuming I had access to other threads. I did not. I don't even have access to the other layers that the others are saying they can now see.

You're still assuming that my having access to other threads (I didn't) is indicative or my role and thus indicative of my alignment.

I could go on, but I have more important matters as the deadline approaches.

What are your opinions of the TL and Nutella wagons?

I'm writing a post right now. Bear with me.

[Hyena]

Go ahead, Radishes. Lynch me. I would bet money you'll be off my wagon come EoD.

If he does, should I vote for him or Nutella?

If he does lynch me then the vig will get him, so vote Nutella lol

Okay, cool.

[nutella]

Eva, if epi is right that you are town, which I am entertaining, I would be more likely to believe Lexi is scum based on what you say here. I mainly didn't think you two were w/w, but also I figured she must actually believe what she says about me, but since you say she would do that blatantly as scum then perhaps she is.

[Trustworthy Liberal]

Go ahead, Radishes. Lynch me. I would bet money you'll be off my wagon come EoD.

If he does, should I vote for him or Nutella?

If he does lynch me then the vig will get him, so vote Nutella lol

What I the vig is out of shots like talked about before seems your willing to leave that up in the air for what seems from how you've talking a lock mafia?

Or are you the neutral that was stuck up there and don't want the flip as it would mean your next?

[nutella]

Eva-- forget nutella and Epi for a second-- I'm not voting for either.

Who is bad and why?

Radishes, because of everything that happened in D4, plus compelling reasons that I can't share. Willing to let the vig get him though.
Quin, because they've lurked through the entire game and have a wolfy pickup today.
If it's not Nutella, Hyena is very likely scum. If neither of them are, look at Long Con.
112 could still be scum and I'm very tempted to resolve them today. They've felt weird this whole game and they had a wolfy vote earlier.

Never scum:
LLD
Rabbit
Pawn Lelouch

Lmao you literally just said lld is scum if I'm town what

[Michelle]

Spoiler: show

Sorry, hold on. You want to infolynch at this stage ? And you want it to be Dom, because it'll clear Michelle?

I have too much respect for you to think that's town mindset logic.

I'm not convincing you anyway. You're not baiting me here.

Fine, I'll try to cut down the sass. I do mean it that I respect you, though.

But we're not lynching Dom today just to see how that makes Michelle look. We are far too deep into this game, and the mafia are doing far too well, to be wasting a lynch on that. Vote for Dom if he's a wolf, not because he's an info lynch.

If Michelle is town, Dom is 100% a wolf, pending Michelle's reaction.

uh what why

TMI= too much information.
He knows i am villager and of course if we succeed to lynch scum Elephant today and proove my read, this post means Dom is indeed scum.

Would you commit to saying that your alignment is always opposite Dom's?
Would me flipping town make you reconsider?

no. I disagree. Associative reads are very bad.
I don't think a connection between any of us can be made.

You are scum regardeless, if you flip town I can hung myself.

[Michelle]

@Everyone, Elephant wants me to screw the logic of my reads and this is a scum tactic.

let's lynch scum today, thanks for understanding

[Hyena]

Okay, 100% serious here, I'm probably never lynching TLib this game, and anybody that tries to from this point going forward will be scumclaiming by doing so.

[Michelle]

I made succesive attempt to provoke Dom today. No succes. My scumread on him is totally shaking.

I need help here, i need to reread something. brb

[Elephant]

[mention]Evenstar[/mention]
I have just skimmed back through your ISO, and re-found the post where you explained how Epi is POE-clamped. This reasoning rests on Dom's alignment as town, which rests on Dom not being scum with Sprityo or Radishes. How certain are you of this? Michelle asserts he is scum.

[Epignosis]

@Everyone, Elephant wants me to screw the logic of my reads and this is a scum tactic.

let's lynch scum today, thanks for understanding

How does the post below factor into the idea that Elephant and Dragomir are teammates?

honestly, guys, i'm just going to role-play my character the whole game and hope that through magickal energies i can help us effect a good outcome

Ok @juliets since you're confused lemme clear up my suspicion against 112. So my belief of there being fake character claims came from this post. The roleplaying character thing pings me hard for reasons being that there's a manipulative edge to it. I only see one perspective to why someone would do this is the scum perspective. Role-play your character in order to make it more believable if you got to claim it. Get ppl in the mindset that your character is this person thus clouding them from looking too much into the actual claim.

There's no town perspective to it imo. Why should town bother themselves with roleplaying their character? All I can see it is for manipulative purposes to set something up in the future. Unless your role requires the role-play, which I don't think is the case for 112 here.

Thanks Drago I'll think through this while eating lunch.

So Drago, I guess where I'm left with this is I don't see any game related point in role-playing your character whether you are town, or scum, or 3P since the character doesn't tell us anything about the person's abilities or their role. JJJ suggested role-playing your character in the OP as just something fun to do.

For example, let's say 112 is role playing the character "loneliness" and she later claims she is "loneliness". What does that tell us exactly? Not her alignment, nor her abilities since there is no correlation. So it tells us nothing, the way I see it.

But no one else seems confused by this, just me, so I don't want to belabor the point. I'll think further on it as we go forward.

I've been assuming that whatever character you have would dictate your alignment, like if your character is a good guy, they'd be town right?

Could you please roleplay your character? A paragraph should suffice.

[Hyena]

I made succesive attempt to provoke Dom today. No succes. My scumread on him is totally shaking.

I need help here, i need to reread something. brb

I'll take an honest look at Dom later. He's kinda flown under the radar from my perspective.

[Michelle]

Here is my scum game link is to were I subbed into.

h

Spoiler: show

ttps://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/24 ... ost3604910

scum chat was nice ^^

who wants my scum game, is there too, we were buddies.

Also his tone this game is similar with town TL.

[Michelle]

@Everyone, Elephant wants me to screw the logic of my reads and this is a scum tactic.

let's lynch scum today, thanks for understanding

How does the post below factor into the idea that Elephant and Dragomir are teammates?

honestly, guys, i'm just going to role-play my character the whole game and hope that through magickal energies i can help us effect a good outcome

Ok @juliets since you're confused lemme clear up my suspicion against 112. So my belief of there being fake character claims came from this post. The roleplaying character thing pings me hard for reasons being that there's a manipulative edge to it. I only see one perspective to why someone would do this is the scum perspective. Role-play your character in order to make it more believable if you got to claim it. Get ppl in the mindset that your character is this person thus clouding them from looking too much into the actual claim.

There's no town perspective to it imo. Why should town bother themselves with roleplaying their character? All I can see it is for manipulative purposes to set something up in the future. Unless your role requires the role-play, which I don't think is the case for 112 here.

Thanks Drago I'll think through this while eating lunch.

So Drago, I guess where I'm left with this is I don't see any game related point in role-playing your character whether you are town, or scum, or 3P since the character doesn't tell us anything about the person's abilities or their role. JJJ suggested role-playing your character in the OP as just something fun to do.

For example, let's say 112 is role playing the character "loneliness" and she later claims she is "loneliness". What does that tell us exactly? Not her alignment, nor her abilities since there is no correlation. So it tells us nothing, the way I see it.

But no one else seems confused by this, just me, so I don't want to belabor the point. I'll think further on it as we go forward.

I've been assuming that whatever character you have would dictate your alignment, like if your character is a good guy, they'd be town right?

Could you please roleplay your character? A paragraph should suffice.

How can you town read him for a meaningless post?
An invite to roleplay is nothing shading or distancing, I see there a normal convo I would never consider AI.

[nutella]

@Evenstar
You mentioned that you'd think LLD would be scum if nutella flipped town. Does that imply that you think the both of us would be scum if Nutella flipped town?

Yep!

Wow.

lol, I want to see where this goes now

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

Ickyyyyy

[juliets]

Here is my scum game link is to were I subbed into.

h

Spoiler: show

ttps://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/24 ... ost3604910

Thank you! I read not all of it but enough of it to say you sound different in that game. You are more confident about your reads and don't equivocate as much which makes sense because you knew who was scum and who was town. Taking my vote off of you.

Unvote Trustworthy Liberal

[Epignosis]

@Everyone, Elephant wants me to screw the logic of my reads and this is a scum tactic.

let's lynch scum today, thanks for understanding

How does the post below factor into the idea that Elephant and Dragomir are teammates?

Ok @juliets since you're confused lemme clear up my suspicion against 112. So my belief of there being fake character claims came from this post. The roleplaying character thing pings me hard for reasons being that there's a manipulative edge to it. I only see one perspective to why someone would do this is the scum perspective. Role-play your character in order to make it more believable if you got to claim it. Get ppl in the mindset that your character is this person thus clouding them from looking too much into the actual claim.

There's no town perspective to it imo. Why should town bother themselves with roleplaying their character? All I can see it is for manipulative purposes to set something up in the future. Unless your role requires the role-play, which I don't think is the case for 112 here.

Thanks Drago I'll think through this while eating lunch.

So Drago, I guess where I'm left with this is I don't see any game related point in role-playing your character whether you are town, or scum, or 3P since the character doesn't tell us anything about the person's abilities or their role. JJJ suggested role-playing your character in the OP as just something fun to do.

For example, let's say 112 is role playing the character "loneliness" and she later claims she is "loneliness". What does that tell us exactly? Not her alignment, nor her abilities since there is no correlation. So it tells us nothing, the way I see it.

But no one else seems confused by this, just me, so I don't want to belabor the point. I'll think further on it as we go forward.

I've been assuming that whatever character you have would dictate your alignment, like if your character is a good guy, they'd be town right?

Could you please roleplay your character? A paragraph should suffice.

How can you town read him for a meaningless post?
An invite to roleplay is nothing shading or distancing, I see there a normal convo I would never consider AI.

I don't agree that it's a meaningless post if you read the exchange fully. Elephant essentially shot down Dragomir's biggest angle when there would have been no reason to do so (unless you think someone would look back and give you credit for it like I'm doing, but I don't think that was Elephant's angle).