Corrupt!? Mafia (ENDGAME)

[Johann]

With that said, if we do shoot Jack first and he flips scum, that might clear Mac altogether.

We’re never shooting me unless a wolf gets the gun.

Why would wolfs shoot you? You are a waste of shot if you are town. You are suspected as it is by a lot of people. Why would mafia kill someone they can frame

-- Why would mafia frame someone if they don't intend to have them shot by either themselves if they get the gun or by town?

Simple

To waste time and energy

Hmm. Fair point.

It is. In champs game i used that tactic against phighter and beck. Poor dudes spent 4 days arguing and wasting energy before i killed them and won.

If i was mafia i would milk that cow to the end. And the fact jack is sus to people you can always frame him later when needee

[Johann]

Hyena question for you

Why didnt you push for Dragomir despite scum reading him

[Hyena]

I feel like I need a little help interpreting the new-to-me folk. I liked Hyena Day 1 but he looked nervous Night 2 after Nanook named him in his shot list. Is that normal Hyena behavior one way or the other?

Yes, I get nervous when people mention they want to kill me. I don't know if it's AI though, since I think I'd be able to fake that as scum.

[Hyena]

Hyena question for you

Why didnt you push for Dragomir despite scum reading him

I only started scumreading Dragomir at the beginning of D2. Two things happened that made me start scumreading him -- 1. Nutella flipped town, and 2. he voted to give Nanook the gun after Nanook said he wouldn't shoot Drago if he received the gun. I feel like I brought up both of these points multiple times throughout D2. That was my push on Dragomir. I wasn't as active on D2 as I was on D1, though, so maybe the volume of my posts (or the lack of it) made it feel like less of a push? Like, I feel like I did push for Drago.

[Jackofhearts2005]

With that said, if we do shoot Jack first and he flips scum, that might clear Mac altogether.

We’re never shooting me unless a wolf gets the gun.

Why would wolfs shoot you? You are a waste of shot if you are town. You are suspected as it is by a lot of people. Why would mafia kill someone they can frame

Wolf: Shoots Jack
Wolf: Oh darn. Jack should have played better.

Townie: Shoots someone other than Jack.

Not like the wolves can shoot someone who isn’t suspected at all.

[Jackofhearts2005]

And i wanna swing it back to Slooney. Is he/she a regular here?

He is and he has a rep as a very good player.

Sloonei’s saying he thinks he was poisoned for his rep, not his reads.

So in a nutshell he was poisoned by a core member of this site?

That’s the idea. Drago could be that player, though.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I don’t think I’d shoot wilgy today, if last game is anything to go on if he’s town he’ll show him himself eventually and be a force. I was terrified of him as soon as he started playing in the coronavirus game.

If Dougall is mafia, he wouldnt be so critical and salty about Nutella death. He would just shrug it off and say stuff like everyone wanted her dead

Dougall came in and told us we were lazy, unmotivated and we allowed it to happen. Mafia doing a pep talk to town is beyond me. If dougall is mafia then wp

Id shoot
Dragomir - Hyena

I wouldnt shoot
Gman
Gman

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] I think these were the quotes about you and Wilgy I agreed with.

Yeah, the one about you was actually from Johann. There was a 4 or 5 layer multi quote discussing you so maybe I mixed that up? Couldn’t find Nanook saying he thought your reaction to Nutella’s death was honest, which is what I remember agreeing with.

I can understand why that’s not the best look for me but whatever.

[Jackofhearts2005]

hyena was O F F n1 but the buildup looked genuine except for the flip flop on nutella but she's town so ...

nanook you got some meta knowledge on him?

WHY IS THIS GAME SO HARD.

WHERE'S THE SCUM

hyena was O F F n1 but the buildup looked genuine except for the flip flop on nutella but she's town so ...

nanook you got some meta knowledge on him?

A very small amount, a scum game and a pair of town games (only one I remember well tho)

does this feel like scum hyena or town hyena to you?

Could be either!

ahhh..... aha.

well

idk if i'd be down with a hyena shot anymore tbh. if i'm wrong it's whatever.

jack or wilgy are some real spicy shots imo

but once again your opinion matters the most

What I’d like to get from everyone is two people you would shoot and two people you would not. Doesn’t have to be ranked 1/2, I don’t care. Just give me two names on either end.

I would NOT shoot G-Man or Funny.
I WOULD shoot Dragomir or Boo.

OH YEAH. DRAGOMIR

is an option

Okay this is a pretty darn townie looking progression from FG.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I would shoot Jack and Sloonei
Wouldn't shoot FG/Duskfall

Lol

[Jackofhearts2005]

Boo, did you turn on me because I lowered you to null and raised Jack up to null with you? :P Also, did you think the argument that I originally made about Nutella (that you pushed alongside me), where I said that scum might not want the gun and might not want to be responsible for shooting town, was towny?

Turning on you would imply we were ever on a team. I found you suspicious at points during d1, but not enough to not push you above other people. N1 that changed some, d2 that changed a lot. The weakest part of my town game is not adjusting reads enough as I go (or being so aware of that I go all over the place because I trust none of my reads). I'm fairly satisfied with how I handled my Nutella suspicion this game. I was wrong, but such is life. I think I'm approaching you right. I failed at my approach to Jack in a few ways. Regrouping on that front and if Nanook doesn't decide to shoot him I'll look at it again d3.

Doing Towny things doesn't inherently make someone town.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Kill 2:
Jack & Hyena

Don't kill:
FG & Mac

[Jackofhearts2005]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

I'm basically with you on Wilgy and Mac. I'm not in the same place with you on Sloon, GMan or Johann but I'm of the same opinion that none of them should be shot today.

Tell me what you got out of my interactions with Boo yesterday?

Talk to me about FG, Drago and Hyena. What is the most compelling reason to kill and not kill each of them?

I could have sworn there was a post where Nanook laid out all his reads and this was in response to it but I can’t find it. I don’t like the idea that I was actually not on the same page on Mac and replying to two different players over several posts.

If anyone sees it...

[Jackofhearts2005]

@G-Man

When you read Boo, can you look at his general aggression and ask if you think it is coming from a town perspective with townie motivation or if its defensive/offensive without being inquisitive. I don't think evaluating how logical he is or isn't is the key bit but rather how logical it is for town and scum versions of Boo to say the things he's saying.

Queuing up Boo's ISO showed me that he's been punchy with a lot of folks. At a cursory glance, he seems to post more counterpoint material than proposing ideas. The big idea he seems to have right now is being held close to the vest. His ISO is long, though, and I admit that I went through it looking for consistency, and that is what I found. If I can find the time, I will try to analyze it from a civ-or-scum mindset tomorrow.

Jack's ISO has enough of his manic snarky style to seem normal, but I still find the flavor a little bland through Day 1. Coasting perhaps?

Wilgy is being Wilgy, and I never know what to do with that. For now, I feel like I have to slide him into the not-a-good-look tier given the size of the game.


@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME This is probably too late to be helpful, but:

Would Not Shoot: Sloonei, Mac
Would Shoot: Dragomir, Hyena

We don’t really need more reasons to townread GMan but there’s this.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Cocky theory time: Sloonei being poisoned suggests at least one syndicate regular is mafia.

Yes it's Jack. I am just about convinced. What a shame that I didn't shoot him.

Here’s a secret I may regret sharing.

Town!Jack is scared of Wolf!Sloonei. Wolf!Jack is not scared of Town!Sloonei.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I don’t think I’d shoot wilgy today, if last game is anything to go on if he’s town he’ll show him himself eventually and be a force. I was terrified of him as soon as he started playing in the coronavirus game.

If Dougall is mafia, he wouldnt be so critical and salty about Nutella death. He would just shrug it off and say stuff like everyone wanted her dead

Dougall came in and told us we were lazy, unmotivated and we allowed it to happen. Mafia doing a pep talk to town is beyond me. If dougall is mafia then wp

Id shoot
Dragomir - Hyena

I wouldnt shoot
Gman
Gman

@MacDougall I think these were the quotes about you and Wilgy I agreed with.

Yeah, the one about you was actually from Johann. There was a 4 or 5 layer multi quote discussing you so maybe I mixed that up? Couldn’t find Nanook saying he thought your reaction to Nutella’s death was honest, which is what I remember agreeing with.

I can understand why that’s not the best look for me but whatever.

We agreed that it was useless AtE that didn’t negate a prior TR IIRC

[Jackofhearts2005]

Okay, so after the four people I mentioned, things get a bit hazy.

HOWEVER

Theoretically, us four would need to find only two more town to have autowin, assuming we're correct about everything.

Out of the remaining six, {Boo, Wilgy, G-Man, Jack, Johann, MacDougall}, I feel the most confident about G-Man being town. Most of it comes down to the emotional reaction he had D2 when he was frustrated about how fast the game was going. It felt genuine, and I feel like if he was mafia, his partners would keep him filled in on what was going on. Thus, I would want to include him in my towncore.

Funny has been calling Johann town, and Nanook has been talking about bringing him to F3 regardless of his alignment. I need help seeing that he's town, and it would be great if I can do that since that would make him a good option for our second towny.

After that, I don't have much of a read on Wilgy yet, but after seeing him in Corona Virus mafia, I think he'd be able to show that he's obvtown. I don't know if just hasn't had that chance yet whether it's due to time, RL commitments, or something else. I'm not willing to kill him yet.

That leaves {Boo, Jack, Mac}. I don't think there's more than one scum in Boo and Jack just based on the argument they had D2. Thus, we could also potentially look for town in that pair. Granted, there's also the chance that both of them are town.

Finally, Mac is just ??? If we go with calling Johann town and G-Man town, then he's already in the PoE.

Altogether, the PoE for me right now would be {Boo, Jack, Mac, Wilgy}. Things that would change it would be us finding clear town in Jack or Boo, or Wilgy becoming obvtown today by doing what he did in Corona Virus mafia.

Jack is bad. Boo has great tone but almost has to be bad via POE. It could be Wilgy instead of Boo. But yes your POE is spot on. I'd include Johann but only at a stretch.

More weird takes.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

I'm basically with you on Wilgy and Mac. I'm not in the same place with you on Sloon, GMan or Johann but I'm of the same opinion that none of them should be shot today.

Tell me what you got out of my interactions with Boo yesterday?

Talk to me about FG, Drago and Hyena. What is the most compelling reason to kill and not kill each of them?

I could have sworn there was a post where Nanook laid out all his reads and this was in response to it but I can’t find it. I don’t like the idea that I was actually not on the same page on Mac and replying to two different players over several posts.

If anyone sees it...

I think you were replying to several posts of mine rather than one specific one? Not sure but your reply made sense to me at the time, so idk

[Jackofhearts2005]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

I'm basically with you on Wilgy and Mac. I'm not in the same place with you on Sloon, GMan or Johann but I'm of the same opinion that none of them should be shot today.

Tell me what you got out of my interactions with Boo yesterday?

Talk to me about FG, Drago and Hyena. What is the most compelling reason to kill and not kill each of them?

I could have sworn there was a post where Nanook laid out all his reads and this was in response to it but I can’t find it. I don’t like the idea that I was actually not on the same page on Mac and replying to two different players over several posts.

If anyone sees it...

I think you were replying to several posts of mine rather than one specific one? Not sure but your reply made sense to me at the time, so idk

You got that I was saying “don’t shoot Mac” not “shoot Mac,” right?

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Sloonei I would like you to summon as much energy as you can please. I know you're on the road but hit us like a freight train. You are a confirmed town voice. Play a 1 dat stump please.

Stump is in theory a role I’d love cause it’s basically bulletproof vanilla town and I’m rarely the deciding vote.

In practice, so much of my towngame revolves around how players treat me and if everyone treats me as confirmed town, I suck.

[Jackofhearts2005]

And nobody ever nks me anyway.

[Jackofhearts2005]

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
G-Man
Funnygurl555
Hyena

Johann

boo
DrWilgy

Jackofhearts2005

This is my reads list. I know it echoes many others. I think we are on the right track. I understand I'm probably in most of your POEs. I admit I didn't show up d2 which was hypocritical of me after complaining about d1. I was pretty disappointed in myself and needed to take the time quite honestly. I didn't want to be a toxic jerk.

I think Jack is scum. He's the least town player in the game. Hasn't done anything impactful aside from summon almighty ATE to move my gun from his head. I'd like that to be the shot.

Boo has been solid town read for me all game but he is in the POE all the same. I'd prefer Wilgy shot over him.

I am confident that everyone else I've named is town. Even Hyena. I think Hyena and myself are the only valid bad shots here so I fully expect to see arguments towards us. Hyena is exceptionally townie by content and his reads echo mine. He hasn't built his reads in a way to give himself outs.

Why has boo been “a solid town read” for you all game?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Dougall if you think Hyena is town bcs he shares same scum views as you ( and mind you so do i ) why is he town and i am not? In fact i think i am superior to hyena in every aspect

Hyena said drago is scum BUT NEVER PUSHED for Dragos death. I pushed for Drago death entire D2 but hyena never did so except saying ye i think drago is scum and he needs to die when asked by nanook

Hyena has been smoke with no fire so far and i just cant see him as town

If you will say i bussed Drago why not say same shit to Hyena then?

I just find it beyond funny how Hyena who never had anything of substance and didnt even push for Dragos death is somehow a more townie than me who pushed on Drago sincr d2 started and called for his death on every occasion.

If you will hold me as null then hold Hyena for the same shit if not less. It is not consistent at all

This tbh

[Jackofhearts2005]

Dougall if you think Hyena is town bcs he shares same scum views as you ( and mind you so do i ) why is he town and i am not? In fact i think i am superior to hyena in every aspect

Hyena said drago is scum BUT NEVER PUSHED for Dragos death. I pushed for Drago death entire D2 but hyena never did so except saying ye i think drago is scum and he needs to die when asked by nanook

Hyena has been smoke with no fire so far and i just cant see him as town

If you will say i bussed Drago why not say same shit to Hyena then?

I just find it beyond funny how Hyena who never had anything of substance and didnt even push for Dragos death is somehow a more townie than me who pushed on Drago sincr d2 started and called for his death on every occasion.

If you will hold me as null then hold Hyena for the same shit if not less. It is not consistent at all

What I’d like to get from everyone is two people you would shoot and two people you would not. Doesn’t have to be ranked 1/2, I don’t care. Just give me two names on either end.

I would NOT shoot G-Man or Funny.
I WOULD shoot Dragomir or Boo.

I'm just re-reading and noticed this. Based on my reading right now it is perfect. Hyena has massive town cred for me for those two names he's listed as town. Would never shoot him, FG or G-man as it stands. The POE narrows.

This right here is beyond bad. Like i cant see how can anyone here read this post and go - yea i think this is good

Not only you youself arent confirmed townie you took his words 100% honest and locked him as town bcs he sings the song you wanna hear.

I listed Gman and Slooney as two i would never shoot and you never once commented on it but somehow Hyennas words are enough to give him massive town read when his list is 50% as mine and i was right about slooney???

Like what?

And you said me pushing for Dragomir kill doesnt clear me but you NEVER said anything about it to Hyena who clearly has Drago in his shoot list and Boo - that considers Jack - person you suspect - to be scum -.

I think your read of Hyenna is absolutely bad and full of holes.

In fact your read of Hyena makes you look more as a scum than Hyena himself

So as Mac is changing his read on me to town, I’m changing my read on him to scum.

[Jackofhearts2005]

The only thing is if it's say Boo and Mac, does Mac try to say it's me and Boo? Like is he that unaware of our pushes against each other?

So if it's Mac, that means it isn't Boo and I don't know who the third wolf is unless it's just Wilgy.

And the same if it's Boo but backwards.

[Jackofhearts2005]

That is I think wolves hard bus (or ignore their mate's posts) more often than they have no idea what's going on with their teammate.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

I'm basically with you on Wilgy and Mac. I'm not in the same place with you on Sloon, GMan or Johann but I'm of the same opinion that none of them should be shot today.

Tell me what you got out of my interactions with Boo yesterday?

Talk to me about FG, Drago and Hyena. What is the most compelling reason to kill and not kill each of them?

I could have sworn there was a post where Nanook laid out all his reads and this was in response to it but I can’t find it. I don’t like the idea that I was actually not on the same page on Mac and replying to two different players over several posts.

If anyone sees it...

I think you were replying to several posts of mine rather than one specific one? Not sure but your reply made sense to me at the time, so idk

You got that I was saying “don’t shoot Mac” not “shoot Mac,” right?

And...did I shoot him?

[Jackofhearts2005]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

I'm basically with you on Wilgy and Mac. I'm not in the same place with you on Sloon, GMan or Johann but I'm of the same opinion that none of them should be shot today.

Tell me what you got out of my interactions with Boo yesterday?

Talk to me about FG, Drago and Hyena. What is the most compelling reason to kill and not kill each of them?

I could have sworn there was a post where Nanook laid out all his reads and this was in response to it but I can’t find it. I don’t like the idea that I was actually not on the same page on Mac and replying to two different players over several posts.

If anyone sees it...

I think you were replying to several posts of mine rather than one specific one? Not sure but your reply made sense to me at the time, so idk

You got that I was saying “don’t shoot Mac” not “shoot Mac,” right?

And...did I shoot him?

No but Idk how much pull I have on your shot decisions.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I mean I sent the shot in like 5 minutes after I got the gun lolol

So not much

[Jackofhearts2005]

With that said, if we do shoot Jack first and he flips scum, that might clear Mac altogether.

We’re never shooting me unless a wolf gets the gun.

Why would wolfs shoot you? You are a waste of shot if you are town. You are suspected as it is by a lot of people. Why would mafia kill someone they can frame

-- Why would mafia frame someone if they don't intend to have them shot by either themselves if they get the gun or by town?

Simple

To waste time and energy

Hmm. Fair point.

[Funnygurl555]

Cocky theory time: Sloonei being poisoned suggests at least one syndicate regular is mafia.

Yes it's Jack. I am just about convinced. What a shame that I didn't shoot him.

Here’s a secret I may regret sharing.

Town!Jack is scared of Wolf!Sloonei. Wolf!Jack is not scared of Town!Sloonei.

noted

[Funnygurl555]

i had something to say here but i forgot

anyways mac is HELLA town and if i get the gun the shot is not going there, ever

oh yeah, someone said that wiggles will be a hard person to solve. i think that's a good shot. someone here kept saying they could read wiggles as time went on though

[Funnygurl555]

mac is a waste of time and energy to make a case on. dw-- ya girl's got this read

oh also johann. johann is also town. once again gotta drive that one home

thanks

[Funnygurl555]

sloonei, confirm jack's admission that he's scared of wolf you please

[Funnygurl555]

barring some craziness hyena doesn't get shot by me in the night

sorry johann

[Jackofhearts2005]

i had something to say here but i forgot

anyways mac is HELLA town and if i get the gun the shot is not going there, ever

oh yeah, someone said that wiggles will be a hard person to solve. i think that's a good shot. someone here kept saying they could read wiggles as time went on though

Wilgy can become obvious town sometimes but it really depends on how much effort he puts into the game.

Town Wilgy -> effort -> obvious town
Town Wilgy -> low effort -> eventual mislynch
Wolf Wilgy -> low effort -> eventual correct lynch
Wolf Wilgy -> effort -> ???

[MacDougall]

Ok that was serious bs from Jack.

[boo]

Ok that was serious bs from Jack.

You'll have to be waaaaaaaay more specific.

[Sloonei]

I made it safely to my destination, but that length driving time sals my energy. Posts will come tomorrow.

[Sloonei]

Saps my energy. I don’t know any Sals.

[MacDougall]

Ok that was serious bs from Jack.

You'll have to be waaaaaaaay more specific.

Like I read all his stuff and my only reaction was what I posted.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Ok that was serious bs from Jack.

You'll have to be waaaaaaaay more specific.

Like I read all his stuff and my only reaction was what I posted.

Should we shoot you tonight or you wanna admit my game is so nuanced you have difficulty reading me?

[Hyena]

So, I was doing some thinking after Funny suggested shooting Wilgy tonight instead of waiting. If there's only one mafia between Boo and Jack, and if Mac is town, then that would make Wilgy automatically mafia assuming our towncore is correct. Thus, maybe Wilgy isn't a bad shot tonight. I'd be okay with a shot on either of him or Boo tonight.

[MacDougall]

Ok that was serious bs from Jack.

You'll have to be waaaaaaaay more specific.

Like I read all his stuff and my only reaction was what I posted.

Should we shoot you tonight or you wanna admit my game is so nuanced you have difficulty reading me?

I already admitted I can't read good players.

[Funnygurl555]

Ok that was serious bs from Jack.

You'll have to be waaaaaaaay more specific.

Like I read all his stuff and my only reaction was what I posted.

Should we shoot you tonight or you wanna admit my game is so nuanced you have difficulty reading me?

I already admitted I can't read good players.

hey

I made it safely to my destination, but that length driving time sals my energy. Posts will come tomorrow.

grats! rest well

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I don’t think wilgy is a good shot tonight tbh

[Funnygurl555]

oh ok i won't do it

[Funnygurl555]

tell me who to shoot. your voice matters a whole bunch here nanook

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Personally I’d shoot within Jack/Mac/hyena I think

I know I said that last night then didn’t but I mean it this time probably

[Funnygurl555]

sounds good. in that poe i'd go for jack

[Johann]

Wilgy should be mod killed tbh

[MacDougall]

I don’t think wilgy is a good shot tonight tbh

Respectfully I disagree and I'd like to understand what you base this on if it's not simply because you think Wilgy is gonna come into the thread and townsolve like he did in the Coronavirus game.

I believe that now is the best time to do it because we just shot a wolf so we have a window where we can clear someone without it having a huge impact on our end result. Leaving players like him around is asking for trouble. If you shoot me or Hyena tonight and we flip town you've just killed contributing town voices and still have Wilgy to deal with later.

Hyena and I, and even Boo, Jack and Johann are late game solves compared to Wilgy that's the objectively correct way to do this. I do not want Wilgy at the end of this game because if he gets there he's likely contributed nothing and probably continues to contribute nothing while there. If you want to take someone to end game, take a player who's gonna spew themselves one way or the other or that has ample information supply in the thread to solve them through. That's not Wilgy. Wilgy's performance in Coronavirus is a massive outlier to his general contribution. He consistently will just duck out on games entirely. That is quite likely to occur here. He just has too much on in the real world to be reliably expected to show up.