Amdibals at the Zoo! [END]

[DrWilgy]

Also, allow me to voice a concern or opinion about this game.

With how much presence town seemed to have earlier in the game, I was of the opinion that the likely remaining scummeroonies were either a negative to neutral voter day 1 and a slanker.

Being 1 of 3 slankers probably makes it much easier for me to say well lets lynch the other two...

...BUT I STILL FEEL THAT IS CORRECT DAMMIT!

[DrWilgy]

I want Carote thoughts. How do we feel about the rabbit?

[Long Con]

Wilgy, 10000calories may have been slanking, but he was town, and so am I. What makes you think the game is as easy as slankers are Mafia?

[ColinIsCool]

Proto somehow isos Amy to justify his tunnel. Amy townread me. Urist was flipped by thread kill and I didn't vote on him. TSP by thread kill and I wouldn't have voted for him if I had the remotest sense I could push a wagon anywhere else. Doesn't even bother to ISO Tutuu apparently who was town reading me. Ignores posts from Urist reevaluating me. Ignores the fact that nutella's last content is deflecting an accusation I make onto her. Ignores the fact that I as mafia pocketed nutella for an entire game he played in ergo why in fuck would I fear kill her? Proto, hard aligning against me is a solid way to lose this game for town.

Every day the person I came into the day hardest scum reading has gone over. 112 was the one I didn't reevaluate. So I clearly can reevaluate. If I reevaluate Urist and TSP and try to get people to push off them why wouldn't I do it for 112? Proto stop making this game day focused on me. It's asinine. I am alive for one of two reasons. 1. The mafia think they can get me killed. 2. I've been pocketed and will be killed later.

I am also being town spewed by too many people for you to be scum reading me. Mafia partners don't hard shield generally and never do for me because I establish distance. You watched how I mafia partnered with Alison. You watched closely. You're ignoring everything you saw.

Alison hasn't even posted today and TSP hard scumread her. Tutuu wanted Alison/TSP to flip. Everyone else appears to be town reading me. So either I have to think the person not evaluating me at all and just tunneling me is mafia (with the person who has slanked). Colin is mafia. Or I am being pocketed. It's probably not by Nook though because he's been too self aware of being pocketed himself. Ted and Wilgy have done the ol gee nah he's just town id lose to thing which could mean they just intend to solve me at night. Probably hoping that I'd just come back at you and get you yeeted.

I saw something Ted did I didn't like. I'm voting there again.

Re: hard shielding teammates — is that something you’d say you do, Mac?

[ColinIsCool]

I could vote for any of you mfers tbh

[ColinIsCool]

Proto, does your case on Mac essentially amount to “these players got killed because they thought Mac was bad and he was paranoid and wanted them gone?”

Because, no offense to TSP or Urist (for example) but why should we give a shit what they thought at this point? They dead.

[ColinIsCool]

I’m just struggling to see the argument here:

gotta say Proto is starting to look mighty poo to me

I also find this post incredibly towny

why

Does mafia Mac ever make such a bad and naked push onto billboard town?

Yes.

Let's kill Mac please.

and lord knows townies make bad arguments, but ... you do see what I’m saying about how this absolutely is not valid, right?

[ColinIsCool]

Could the ted voters please address me here

Ehhh ted going hard in the paint to “bury” nutella D1 does not feel anything like a wolf push so he’s probably good.

[ColinIsCool]

Might just be Nanook / Long Con

[tedxtr]

Also, that was said when 112 and I had the lead in votes. It's possible that it was offered as the start of a counterwagon to 112 without directly jumping on me.

Other thing to note is that 112 was on me. Perhaps an avoidance of the th/Wilgy wagon was to distance while still offering an option.

You're really quoting the post Colin referenced, a vote that was made at 2 PM, 12 hours or so before EoD and attributing it to me defending my scum buddy?

How do you expect that vote saves my "buddy" there? I didn't even look at the vote count , that argument is ludicrous. I just voted and then moved on.

[tedxtr]

Stop it I’m trying to townread you

Idk man, if scum is like Mac and Alison or something then I'll happily give them the win over someone that kissed mac's ass without doing any solving of his own when I am fully aware that as a town, they have a desire to solve the puzzle

I know it's a silly reasoning but I'm playing minesweeper in this

Like it can't be just LC / Wilgy, game can't possibly be that easy

Why can't it? This is real TMI. Ted has had a great deal of TMI.

Truth is I don't have anything that compelling, if you're town Nanook then the world would have to be exactly LC and Wilgy, which in theory is possible but it would be so "wtf I just wasted my time" that I don't even wanna explore right now without having you flipped first

Why not Carotte, Colin, Proto, Alison? This is bs. There are many viable worlds. You know this.

Listen Mac, I understand that you're trying to find a wolf here. I don't think your gameplay today is scum motivated and I don't think that your vote on 112 was a conscious bussing attempt.

However, don't make silly accusations when you aren't even reading properly.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, I DID say that world would make A LOT OF SENSE game state wise, but it's so simple that I outright refuse to believe it is so. Of course anything makes sense at this point, it doesn't mean that what's possible is going to be probable though. How's that helping me iyo?

I don't think it's any of the other people because I town read them and don't have anything scum indicative for them.

If you'd be trying to work with me we'd be able to sort this out fairly easily - I've already asked you a question that you have just skipped over.

I know I have been slacking and it was hard for me to get involved in the game but it is your job to find me regardless, if you're town here. I'm trying to let myself be town by engaging with you because I believe that's the easiest way I can be found.

You did a good job town reading me until now. My role didn't change in the meantime, so play better.

[tedxtr]

Could the ted voters please address me here

Ehhh ted going hard in the paint to “bury” nutella D1 does not feel anything like a wolf push so he’s probably good.

The PoE approach outweighs the town indicative stuff I've done throughout the game that I should be read based off.

[tedxtr]

I have this world view because me not being engaged in the game too much and not being a subject of discussion has lead me to be more objective. When people don't talk about my reads / make me doubt them, I have more conviction because I'm a pretty good player. People gaslighting me are what makes me doubt myself usually.

You're thinking it's possible that anyone is scum at this point because you were immersed in the game state and are paranoid as a result, while I wasn't absorbed by the thread state and most of my reads and pushes were made after the thread moved on from talking about them.

That's why I have town reads on a lot of people and I remained with a PoE that looks good enough for me that you seem to ignore because you'd rather mindlessly flip me instead of trying to actually read me. It's quite annoying as it is. I'd much rather spend my time figuring scum and arguing with them than with one of my villas.

I'm giving you exactly 3 posts to ask whatever you want out of me and afterwards I'm gonna scum hunt - if you don't find me that's your fault.

[protocultures]

Proto, does your case on Mac essentially amount to “these players got killed because they thought Mac was bad and he was paranoid and wanted them gone?”

Because, no offense to TSP or Urist (for example) but why should we give a shit what they thought at this point? They dead.

How many games you played with Mac?

TSP has played tons with Mac. TSP is not saying he thinks Mac is a wolf for nothing.

Not sure about Urist metas with Mac.

I have played a few games with Mac.

I think Mac is scum.

if you dont see it, not much i can do.

Who is scummier than Mac today?

[protocultures]

I’m just struggling to see the argument here:

gotta say Proto is starting to look mighty poo to me

I also find this post incredibly towny

why

Does mafia Mac ever make such a bad and naked push onto billboard town?

Yes.

Let's kill Mac please.

and lord knows townies make bad arguments, but ... you do see what I’m saying about how this absolutely is not valid, right?

What is not valid here?

[protocultures]

on the plus side, I prob die tonight and then maybe someone starts looking at Mac tomorrow.

[Carotenoid]

Hmn. Reevaluation time. We're on D4 and all the chops have been relatively easy to get through: that means that either wolves were comfortable in towncore, either that they were low-posting/afk and slipped through.

I think Mac is town. By extension of Mac being town I think Nanook is too, don't think w!Nanook's whole strategy relies on Mac being wrong. I thought about w!Mac world a lot because I don't want to be fooled by w!Mac for like the third time in a row and yeah, I think I should just lock him town and reevaluate at lylo if he's still alive. He's nothing like the previous games where he was scum and I think he's saying the truth when he said that a 112/Mac/X scum team would have been more hyped D1. His case on TSP was solid even if it ended up being wrong. Also, proto and Mac are never w/w and I think w!Mac would have tried to get proto voted off instead of TSP (to keep him for a later misvote), especially since lots of people were suspecting proto.

Speaking of proto, I can't tell if he's in a bad tunnel or if he's just wolf here. Overall he's been pretty stagnant and D1 he said something like omgus being an okayish way to read people and yet he's not doing that at all, he's just trying to deflect suspicions. Except for Mac and his case is just... ???

I still think Alison's D1 was scummy and her drop-off is not really a good look. By drop-off I don't mean postcount wise, more like, "interest" wise. Like, on D3 it seemed like she was just fine with whatever was happening and not trying to change things.

TenThousandCalories might have been spewed wolf by 112. If Alison is town I think he might be a good partner for Proto.

DrWilgy & tedxtr kinda fell in my blind spot, I need to reread them.

[ColinIsCool]

Proto, does your case on Mac essentially amount to “these players got killed because they thought Mac was bad and he was paranoid and wanted them gone?”

Because, no offense to TSP or Urist (for example) but why should we give a shit what they thought at this point? They dead.

How many games you played with Mac?

TSP has played tons with Mac. TSP is not saying he thinks Mac is a wolf for nothing.

Not sure about Urist metas with Mac.

I have played a few games with Mac.

I think Mac is scum.

if you dont see it, not much i can do.

Who is scummier than Mac today?

I’ve played like a jillion with Mac. Going back 10+ years now. I’m not saying he’s town, but I don’t think I can buy your above argument or that you buy it either.

[DrWilgy]

Also, that was said when 112 and I had the lead in votes. It's possible that it was offered as the start of a counterwagon to 112 without directly jumping on me.

Other thing to note is that 112 was on me. Perhaps an avoidance of the th/Wilgy wagon was to distance while still offering an option.

You're really quoting the post Colin referenced, a vote that was made at 2 PM, 12 hours or so before EoD and attributing it to me defending my scum buddy?

How do you expect that vote saves my "buddy" there? I didn't even look at the vote count , that argument is ludicrous. I just voted and then moved on.

Yes lol. Also kickstarting wagons is necessary if you are scum if you need to save a teammate. (Especially with enough time.)

Also it's not an argument, just a line of thought. Your response to this was not quite what I expected and strangely harsh in comparison to what I would have expected.

[DrWilgy]

Wilgy, 10000calories may have been slanking, but he was town, and so am I. What makes you think the game is as easy as slankers are Mafia?

Game tempo day 2 and 3-ish

[Carotenoid]

Wait actually now that I'm thinking about that, proto/TTC-Long Con world makes a lot of sense.

Like, they agreed that proto busses 112 to pocket Alison but TTC never came back to save 112. That can explain why Proto was down on D2 and doing the whole "wow I am so disengaged I didn't even know who the flip was": one of his partner died D1 and the other one is just not playing.

[Carotenoid]

I mean a bunch of people voting TSP.

I don't really see it.

[mention]protocultures[/mention] What did you mean with this post? Your previous post was from 3 hours ago and then you just disappeared

[ColinIsCool]

I’m kinda leaning back to town for you proto but the argument isn’t valid because it’s based on a probably false sum
of premises, like “nutella was killed because she suspected Mac,” “TSP was town and suspected Mac so Mac is scum”, and “Mac is paranoid enough to kill everyone who suspects him”. I think you’re tunneling. I don’t know for sure if your conclusion that Mac is bad is wrong but even if he is I’m not onboard with that reasoning.

[ColinIsCool]

I deadass have no reason to townread Nanook that I can recall

[ColinIsCool]

[VOTE: Nanook] aubergine

[Carotenoid]

I want Carote thoughts. How do we feel about the rabbit?

What are your thoughts about me?

[DrWilgy]

I want Carote thoughts. How do we feel about the rabbit?

What are your thoughts about me?

Felt like you belong in towncore with your 112 vote and your behavior seems in line with your town behavior from pyre.

The towncore getting bopped makes me want to review you further, BUT nothing from you stands out as indicative of being wolf.

[Long Con]

Long Con
ColinIsCool
Carotenoid
Alison
protocultures
DrWilgy
tedxtr
MacDougall
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

I'm partway through Day 1 here, and this is where my feelings are at. I sit, I read for a bit, I get up to get back to RL projects... don't expect me to plow through the whole game today, more like 1-2 pages every hour or two.

[ColinIsCool]

I ISO’d Nanook and all I got for him is tone and my own understanding of his meta, which are both bad reasons. Action-wise I don’t see a compelling reason to believe he is town

[Carotenoid]

I want Carote thoughts. How do we feel about the rabbit?

What are your thoughts about me?

Felt like you belong in towncore with your 112 vote and your behavior seems in line with your town behavior from pyre.

The towncore getting bopped makes me want to review you further, BUT nothing from you stands out as indicative of being wolf.

I didn't vote 112 though

[DrWilgy]

I want Carote thoughts. How do we feel about the rabbit?

What are your thoughts about me?

Felt like you belong in towncore with your 112 vote and your behavior seems in line with your town behavior from pyre.

The towncore getting bopped makes me want to review you further, BUT nothing from you stands out as indicative of being wolf.

I didn't vote 112 though

Interesting. Even more of a review warranted then because must've confused you with someone else. Your behavior matching pyre still stands.

[DrWilgy]

Long Con
ColinIsCool
Carotenoid
Alison
protocultures
DrWilgy
tedxtr
MacDougall
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

I'm partway through Day 1 here, and this is where my feelings are at. I sit, I read for a bit, I get up to get back to RL projects... don't expect me to plow through the whole game today, more like 1-2 pages every hour or two.

[Carotenoid]

[mention]tedxtr[/mention] Where's your head at? Can you post a readlist or something?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I don’t fully understand why a wilgy/LC world is “easier” than a nanook/LC or Nanook/wilgy world tbh

[protocultures]

I mean a bunch of people voting TSP.

I don't really see it.

@protocultures What did you mean with this post? Your previous post was from 3 hours ago and then you just disappeared

I didnt scumread TSP. A lot of other were scumreading TSP. What do you mean?

[Carotenoid]

I mean a bunch of people voting TSP.

I don't really see it.

@protocultures What did you mean with this post? Your previous post was from 3 hours ago and then you just disappeared

I didnt scumread TSP. A lot of other were scumreading TSP. What do you mean?

hmn ok I wasn't sure what you meant by "I mean"
It feels a lot like a pre "I told you so" post

[Alison]

Hi all. I've exed wrong twice in a row the past two days and repeatedly not been nightkilled. I am therefore throwing out most of my readslist and starting from scratch. The only reads I will be keeping are my towncore, which I am relying on to help me solve the game. You could make an argument that maybe I haven't been shot because there's a wolf in my core, but I don't think wolves would shoot me even if wolves are outside my towncore.

Here are some compelling reasons to view me as town. Every nightkill has been made on someone who townreads me. nutella, tutuu and Amy all plainly stated that they simply thought I was town based on play. Therefore, if I am mafia, I would have made the decision to consecutively shoot people who had townreads on me.

This is unlikely for the obvious reason (as scum I want to keep my allies alive), but it is doubly unlikely when you consider the gamestate reasons. If I am scum and the D1 wagon was W/W, then I surely would intend to garner as much towncred as I could off being the counterwagon to 112, and try to compensate for our lack of numbers by going deep. Therefore it would be unlikely for me to repeatedly shoot people that considered me town if my strategy was to try to get as much towncred as possible and establish myself as a deepwolf.

I'm going to catch up on the thread now - I consider this state of affairs to strongly indicate me as town and I would encourage anyone who disagrees with that assessment to speak out now.

[Alison]

[readslist]

I am hard townshielding proto and Colin. Does this change your read on them at all, given that you've indicated that you think I shouldn't be touched until FX?

[Alison]

*places Proto into the bin gently*

Let's thunderdome!

If Mac is mafia, he isn't the mafia that we're exeing today. There are too many better targets to choose from. If you believe Mac is mafia, let's focus on catching his partner and let the interactions implicate him.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

[readslist]

I am hard townshielding proto and Colin. Does this change your read on them at all, given that you've indicated that you think I shouldn't be touched until FX?

Nope

[Alison]

Okay I've caught up. Here's what I think.

My towncore (proto and Colin) is intact and if anything I have stronger TRs on them than ever. Mac is probably town. Carotte is probably town. Wilgy is probably town. That leaves the solve at [Nanook, LC, ted]. I'm not going to write huge paragraphs about why all the people I townread are town because 1) I don't have time as mentioned before and 2) I think a lot of the substance of these reads overlaps with other stuff that's already been pointed out. If you have a serious issue with one of my reads let me know and we can talk it out.

linki: okay, I'm voting nanook today. I have a hard time believing that he just doesn't care about my read at all in this gamestate if he were town.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Why would I? Your reads are fine but not, like, godlike ime

[Alison]

Why would I? Your reads are fine but not, like, godlike ime

I don't think my reads are godlike (I misread Urist and TSP this game, and I misread tutuu for much of Day 1). However, I find it unlikely that town nanook comes in and sees the game the way it is, and then just forms reads completely independently based on his own ideas without taking into account other people's. I think you tend to emphasize a more collaborative style of play when you're town. Also, you've been sheeping Mac the entire game, so unless you think Mac is way townier than me or has way better reads than me (which I don't think you do), there is no reason to completely ignore my reads.

There are other reasons for me finding it difficult to see you as town. I think Carotte is town, and from what you've said, you do as well. Urist and tutuu have flipped town. Am I to believe that the counterwagon against scum on D1 was 100% pure, with every wolf in the game either hiding on a vanity wagon or hard bussing? I don't find that likely. Further, the fact that this logic holds means that if you are town you should probably be suspecting Carotte more than you presently are.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I think joe has better reads than most people

I have taken some reads into account, including yours obliquely—I think you and Proto probably aren’t mafia together for your interactions/reads on each other, but that doesn’t preclude Proto being mafia imo. I don’t see a compelling reason to think he couldn’t possibly fool you.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I don’t really care about wagon composition rn tbh

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

In other words yes I think there’s a chance your wagon D1 was pure

Which should probably increase my suspicion of you I guess but tbh I don’t want to cross that bridge yet

[protocultures]

Hi all. I've exed wrong twice in a row the past two days and repeatedly not been nightkilled. I am therefore throwing out most of my readslist and starting from scratch. The only reads I will be keeping are my towncore, which I am relying on to help me solve the game. You could make an argument that maybe I haven't been shot because there's a wolf in my core, but I don't think wolves would shoot me even if wolves are outside my towncore.

Here are some compelling reasons to view me as town. Every nightkill has been made on someone who townreads me. nutella, tutuu and Amy all plainly stated that they simply thought I was town based on play. Therefore, if I am mafia, I would have made the decision to consecutively shoot people who had townreads on me.

This is unlikely for the obvious reason (as scum I want to keep my allies alive), but it is doubly unlikely when you consider the gamestate reasons. If I am scum and the D1 wagon was W/W, then I surely would intend to garner as much towncred as I could off being the counterwagon to 112, and try to compensate for our lack of numbers by going deep. Therefore it would be unlikely for me to repeatedly shoot people that considered me town if my strategy was to try to get as much towncred as possible and establish myself as a deepwolf.

I'm going to catch up on the thread now - I consider this state of affairs to strongly indicate me as town and I would encourage anyone who disagrees with that assessment to speak out now.

You were more town before this post.

[protocultures]

I mean a bunch of people voting TSP.

I don't really see it.

@protocultures What did you mean with this post? Your previous post was from 3 hours ago and then you just disappeared

I didnt scumread TSP. A lot of other were scumreading TSP. What do you mean?

hmn ok I wasn't sure what you meant by "I mean"
It feels a lot like a pre "I told you so" post

in hindsight, it is a "I told you so" post.

So can we kill Mac now or no?

[Long Con]

Yeah, we can kill Mac now. Just reading his early-game 112-talk, and it's teammate-indicative. So far, he's pretty much been like "Oh yeah 112 is scum.... I'm voting Amy" kind of thing. [VOTE: Mac] aubergine He is 112's teammate.

[Carotenoid]

Day 1
112 (7): TonyStarkPrime, MacDougall, nutella, Alison, Amy, protocultures, ColinIsCool
Alison (5): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Carotenoid, Urist, tutuu, 112
Amy (1): Turnip Head
MacDougall (1): tedxtr
Not voting (1): TenThousandCalories

Day 2
DrWilgy (1): protocultures
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME (2): Carotenoid, DrWilgy
TonyStarkPrime (3): NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Mac Dougall, Urist
Urist (6): Amy, TonyStarkPrime, tutu, Alison, ColinIsCool, tedxtr
No chop (1): TenThousand Calories

Day 3
Carotenoid (1): TonyStarkPrime
MacDougall (1): protocultures
protocultures (1): ColinIsCool
TonyStarkPrime (5): tutuu, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Alison, MacDougall, Carotenoid
Not voting (3): DrWilgy, tedxtr, TenThousandCalories
___
Hmn it turns out the Alison wagon on D1 was town driven. She also voted on the two mischops. I still think there's a busser on 112's wagon, probs in Alison/Proto. I have Alison/Proto not w/w in my notes but I can't remember why lol. Since Alison was town-driven there's a possibility the team was just caught since no other wagon was picking up.

I'm coming around proto being town though. Like replace "Mac" by "Giraffe" and it might have been me.
So yeah it's probs more Alison + someone off wagon. Off-wagon we had tedxtr, TH/DrWilgy, TTC/LC.
Alison has been pretty harsh towards Turnip Head for being "anti-town" etc but there was nothing even slightly similar for TenThousandCalories. She was super insistent that Turnip Head changes how they play but was never interested in a TenThousandCalories policy vote.