Christmas Time Is Here Again

[sig]

Literally trying to tie it the second poll closes?

[Grand Scheme]

They chopp'd him on a winter's day
With the frisky levels rising
So, got too big,

[sig]

Syn's gotta go

[Alison]

The aggression shown by both sig and samu right out of the gate felt like two civilians who thought they’d caught mafiers.

If I show aggression out the gate you don't give me townpoints, because you know it's very well within my scum range. Same for Mac, nutella, or any other experienced player. sig is an experienced player. Why does he get points for aggression?

I am not awarding sig townie points simply for exhibiting aggression. I am awarding him townie points because I thought his particular aggression looked authentic. Samu's got a unique style, both verbally and in methodology, so it does not alarm me that a player would react the way sig did. It is not the first time I've seen that. Samu and I played together briefly in Champs, and the entire early portion of Day 1 was spent bickering about whether or not his play was suspicious.

Samu initiated the exchange with sig, and sig's response reads more like "irritated civilian whose words are being twisted" than "defensive wolf" to me. If anything, I feel like a mafia sig would be less inclined to react as harshly as he did. Sig is aware of his reputation as easy mischop bait. If he's mafia and trying to avoid that, he can do so there by not launching into a crusade against the wordy newcomer. But he does it anyway, because that's what his impulse tells him to do. I do not have any meta examples to back this up, it's just my kneejerk reaction to what I am seeing from this version of sig right now.

I'll also note one other thing that gave me a slight town lean on sig:

Also hey. I'm in 2 games again somehow so activity may be a bit light for awhile

One of his first posts in the game is something that could serve as an excuse to be a low-volume contributor on Day 1. Since then, he has been one of the highest-volume contributors on Day 1.

I townread you for this post, mostly because I think noticing sig's excuse/followup status is a townie thing to do. I'm not townread him for it though - it's way too easy to fake or be NAI, and I don't share your meta read of him.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Cat (4): grand scheme, samu, sloon, sig
Sig (3): alison, syn, Kyle
Wilgy (2): mewtini, made
Made (1): cat
Not voting (2): wilgy (coaled), falcon

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@cat has died and flips town.

Send me your targets in case you’re gifted, if you don’t submit a target and are chosen to be gifted your target will be selected at random among players of your own alignment.

@DrWilgy
@falcon45ca
@sig
@Sloonei
@Syn
@Grand Scheme
@Made
@Samusamu
@Kylemii
@Alison
@mewtini

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Effective immediately, @Marmot has replaced falcon.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@Alison has died and flips town

@Marmot has been coaled and his vote will not count today.

D2 ends December 22, 5pm EST, or when someone receives 7 votes.

@DrWilgy
@marmot
@sig
@Sloonei
@Syn
@Grand Scheme
@Made
@Samusamu
@Kylemii
@mewtini

[Marmot]

Howdy folks! I'm all caught up on the game, please respond to my direct questions and accusations which can be found in this spoiler.

Spoiler: show

I guess everyone is to busy adulting or something.

But. I do have a few ideas regarding gifts, so from the rules it sounds like mafia give them out, but we don't know who got it.. This is gonna further muddy the waters paired with coal.

I don't think hero shooting is necessarily the best way to approach it until mid game, before mid game and once we get closer to end game it would probably make the most sense if everyone targeted the same person. That would insure town has more control over the game and we're not just hitting random people.

I'd also say for n1 we just target people who haven't shown up yet. I'm never really a fan of lynching non posters I think its a good way for mafia to blend and not have responsibility, but given that these are kills i think it may make the most sense to trim the fat early

I like this post from sig. It came early on, which tells me it was his own thoughts (not one discussed among scummates), and I doubt a wolf so blatantly proposes a pro-town strat like this.

I guess everyone is to busy adulting or something.

But. I do have a few ideas regarding gifts, so from the rules it sounds like mafia give them out, but we don't know who got it.. This is gonna further muddy the waters paired with coal.

I don't think hero shooting is necessarily the best way to approach it until mid game, before mid game and once we get closer to end game it would probably make the most sense if everyone targeted the same person. That would insure town has more control over the game and we're not just hitting random people.

I'd also say for n1 we just target people who haven't shown up yet. I'm never really a fan of lynching non posters I think its a good way for mafia to blend and not have responsibility, but given that these are kills i think it may make the most sense to trim the fat early

Ññññ.

Too early to talk about lynching non poster.

I was thinking about the hero shooting thing.

I conclude that i dont care meanwhile that person can explain the shot and that explanation sound legit to me in day 1/2.

Saying hey i have a shot lets talk to decide who should we shot its a good and easy way for deepwolfing.

This post sounds to me like preparing the ground for the scenario where a scum is given the shot and can easily spend half a day just talking about the shot and not giving an opinion.

You post like a mafia .

100% disagree, but I don't think this post is scummy.

From what i've heard Wilgy isn't that dangerous of a player, so this coal is surprising.

The hell does this mean?

Who's telling cat things?

I don't like this entrance from Wilgy.

1) Wilgy is the type of player who would target himself or a teammate for the coal on Day 1.
2) Wilgy is generally a light-hearted player, especially early on. This first post reads as annoyed, and especially out of place since Wilgy later remembered to make his standard entrance.
3) cat flipped town, obviously no on was telling cat things.

Samu is town
Syn and Sig are scum

No idea why syn is a scumread here. Possible w/w pairing.

oh....so coal is just a straight negative... ight doesn't change the null wilgy read, but it does change the flavor of wifom.

I thought the coal turned into a gift the next day...which when you say it out loud, sounds pretty silly

The evolution of Made learning about coal looks natural. Town-lean here.

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

For very good, very legitimate reasons.

Get out of here heathen.

Really before this phase is over everyone should weight in on how they think we should handle shots and try to come to a consensus on who to shoot

I think we shouldn't necessarily all pick the same person, I do think it's correct that it's easy for mafia to hide in the consensus. But I do think we should all state who we're going to shoot before EOD to get an idea of who might have performed the kill.

....or not? I can't vote???? did i miss something?

Sorry bout that, I fixed it.

brb reading everything as i haven't been here since p#20

what'd i miss. how's everyone's night (or day)

Hello Minori!!! I forgot to mention, Toradora used to be one of my favorite anime.

It's my birthday so I won't be super active. I'll try to check in once or twice. Based on page 1:

Syn, Wilgy, GS and Samu are strong townreads. Sig is scum for the defensive tone when being attacked early and the excessive focus on mechanics at the start.

Hello inactive birthday player, why is DrWilgy a strong townread?

This post is pretty townie.

why? the tmi comment? since i see you're doubting Made atm

Kyle/mewtini, I'm having the hardest time reading you two. Weigh in on sig vs samu, please.

think samu is clear town for energy and genuineness. also appreciated him trying to preserve thread direction and eventually saying "maybe sig is just aggravated town," felt like he was acting in good faith

reluctant to slap a scumlean on sig out of personal policy (which is that it's d1 and i want to see more before SLing anyone); i think i'm sideeyeing made more at the moment, actually. sig's recent posting feels more genuine / less wordtwisty than earlier posting did (need to reread later, the language boundary was i think a nonnegligible part of it + made was a bit more strange about it than necessary)

i'm curious about any metareads that anyone else may have on made/sig tbh. i also find it pretty difficult to read much of anything from the current lowposters, e.g. i'm wondering where the syn reads are coming from

How do you determine who to vote for if you don't make scumreads D1 on policy?

Sig brings up mechanics basically right away immediately. i don't really understand what hero shooting means in this context, but that may be because i haven't read the rules or roles page. bringing up the idea of lynching non-posters at a point in the day where non-posters might not even be a thing is, maybe the most suspicious thing. samusamus seems to latch onto that. says sig is sus for trying to talk about lynching nonposters and something, he says that um.... ok at this part it seems to me like samu has a misunderstanding about the nature of the "gift" thing because they talk about how the person who recieves a gift could waste time during the day by talking about who they should target with it, but that doesn't seem to be how the feature works. sig responds to this asking if samu read the rules, and then accuses him of trying to twist his words. at this point they just sort of talk past each other a bunch without stopping to consider what the other one is saying, bunch of syntactical bullshit. i missed this before but sig accuses of samusamu of TMI as well which is a strange interesting interpretation. i think there is an element of language barrier involved in this chain of discussion. what is hero shooting and why is it relevant here?

i don't remember sig being this intense before. i think gth between the two players involved, sig looks worse, with a possibility of this being a dumb day 1 thing where civs just yell paragraphs at each other for no reason.

I do think it's very important to acknowledge that yes, they could both just be townies. I think they are.

Kylemii is townie. Very transparent thought processes.

Agreed.

Cat might be bad instead of kyle

What do you mean "instead of"? I admit cat's posts at this point didn't look great, but why would that make Kyle townie?

From what i can tell townie Alison is a tad more agressive and tries to take a town leader approach, or atleast keep others in check to make sure they aren't stupid.
Scum Alison is a lot more pockety and just places reads down without being too agressive to avoid blame. Would rather agree with someone on a read than push people forward towards one.

As far as i can tell, i can easily be wrong. If it's wrong i will just vote Sloonei, no biggie.

I think she can be forgiven for her low presence due to birthday (and I think moving soon). That said, I don't find what she's offered to be particularly townie. She backed off of her scumread of cat because of their non-agenda vote for her. And yet, Alison asks this contrived question, which reeks agenda.

Though it's not close, it's good to note
A hammer drops on the eighth vote

I think it's hard to truely get a feel
From the way GS is posting, are his motivations real?
But their content is fine, I will make that call
Now dash away, dash away, dash away all.

I've got a tin foil theory brewing that wilgy, cat, and then Allison/syn are mafia with a tin foiled version of that theory saying instead of them its samu.

These are empty words. You don't show us why it's true and you don't follow it up with a vote of your own. It's hust shotgunning shade.

Normally tin-foil theories are made because there's not much or no evidence to prove that they're true. I don't like this accusation.

So we shouldn't be suspicious of someone who other people read as town? So deep wolves don't exist and weren't literally in the last game we played.

Also its a false narrative to even say Samu is a obv town, multiple people have disagreed with that your trying to force your opinion on everyone else's.

Also given that you literally just played with me can you not tell when im joking? I'm pretty sure this is the second time it happened this game vz not at all last game.

I'm really not liking your approach this game or the reasoning for why you should go after me it seems scummy

Deep wolves exist. But what you are doing is not rooting a deep wolf out. What you are doing is attacking a townie player for bad reasoning, backing off when they get townread and reverting to a list of three safe reads, and then pretending that you're scumhunting or engaging in townie paranoia when you have no solid reasoning behind your push.

I think Samu is obvtown and I am trying to force this on everyone else. That's what playing mafia is about. I hate your push on him and scumread you on it. I don't care if you dislike my approach since I think you are scum and I want you dead.

I really dislike your accusations and suspicion of sig. This is the second time you've described things that he's doing that are quite reasonable for a townie to do, but calling him scum for it. In this case, you've described sig as "attacking a townie player for bad reasoning, backing off when they get townread". Is this not normal behavior? You've stated earlier you goal is to convince the thread that Samu is town, yet here you're suspecting sig for listening? You can't have both Alison.

What do you think about sloonei?

Hekkatown

Why?

I like the cut of ya jib, not really see an angle for a bad paprika generally, and ur defense of samu enough sense to be genuine

I think you are mafia. Thoughts?

Kinda don’t believe you, so will see where that goes, but are entitled to your onion mr. paprika. I’m town, so

Why would I lie if I'm town?

I've generally felt good about Sloonei and null on Made, but the end of this interaction is weird.

If Made doesn't believe Sloonei, normally that would mean he scumreads Sloonei.

I get that townies are far less likely to lie than wolves, but the question Sloonei asked in response is still weird. I can't put my finger on why.

Wilgy’s iso is bad. like really really bad

I 100% agree.

I don't have time to read or review Cat.

my vote is being placed on [VOTE: $ig] aubergine

I have consulted the ancient spirits of Christmas past and present and they have told me that this is the way :zen:

This vote looks awful imo. Kyle has the 3rd most posts in the game (and actually the second most at this point), suggesting he has at least some idea what's going on. And yet, he opts not to vote DrWilgy on policy, or to read back on what the case is on cat, although cat's iso was not long.

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

Why the switch from Wilgy to sig?

[Marmot]

Oh, and Alison's dead and gone, that does change things.

[Marmot]

If I had a vote today, it'd go to DrWilgy.

[Marmot]

Current reads


Town:
Marmot
Sig
Samusamu
Sloonei
Grand Scheme

Middling:
Mewtini
Syn
Made

Scum:
Kylemii
DrWilgy

[Marmot]

Who did everyone target last night?

[Samusamu]

Oh, and Alison's dead and gone, that does change things.

Hi, what have changed?

[Syn]

@Marmot: I switched from Wilgy to Sig because my vote on Wilgy was from a joke early D1 and I figured it didn't matter, but then in the final minutes a wagon was forming on them, and I didn't want to have any part of it.

[Marmot]

Oh, and Alison's dead and gone, that does change things.

Hi, what have changed?

She was my #2 mafia suspect, but obviously she's town now.

[Marmot]

oh you're right, EOD is imminent

guess I need to switch from my joke vote

to uh...

to... uh...

maybe I'll just stay on Wilgy

This post from you Syn came almost immediately after this post from Made, so I took it as you agreeing with him. Was that not the case?

[mewtini]

hello hello!

Hello Minori!!! I forgot to mention, Toradora used to be one of my favorite anime.

lovely!! i was late to the party and only watched it during quarantine.

How do you determine who to vote for if you don't make scumreads D1 on policy?

sigh. i elaborated on this a bit but not enough apparently - the main point i was trying to make is that i'm far more focused on townreading/towncoring than i am on scumreading on d1 especially if there's not much content, because i think it's easy (for me, specifically) to get overly tunneled. obviously i'll still have suspicions and act on them

Who did everyone target last night?

alison

[Syn]

oh you're right, EOD is imminent

guess I need to switch from my joke vote

to uh...

to... uh...

maybe I'll just stay on Wilgy

This post from you Syn came almost immediately after this post from Made, so I took it as you agreeing with him. Was that not the case?

not the case

[Syn]

Who did everyone target last night?

samusamu

[Marmot]

oh you're right, EOD is imminent

guess I need to switch from my joke vote

to uh...

to... uh...

maybe I'll just stay on Wilgy

This post from you Syn came almost immediately after this post from Made, so I took it as you agreeing with him. Was that not the case?

not the case

Why'd you swap to sig? I couldn't find anything in your iso that suggested you sussed them, so to me, it looks there's no difference. If it was a wagon you were looking for, you had voiced suspicion of cat. Why'd you pick sig over cat

[Marmot]

Also, I picked Alison too, so I guess we won't know who actually killed her.

[Kylemii]

I don't have time to read or review Cat.

my vote is being placed on [VOTE: $ig] aubergine

I have consulted the ancient spirits of Christmas past and present and they have told me that this is the way :zen:

This vote looks awful imo. Kyle has the 3rd most posts in the game (and actually the second most at this point), suggesting he has at least some idea what's going on. And yet, he opts not to vote DrWilgy on policy, or to read back on what the case is on cat, although cat's iso was not long.

I was posting with limited time from work so I didn't make time to dr wilgy lynch is a meme and I don't respect it, cat seems like a fun person that I've never played with before, sig was a person who had done and said things which had irked me

what are your thoughts on wilgy, cat, and sig respectively? who would you have voted for if you had been around

[Syn]

oh you're right, EOD is imminent

guess I need to switch from my joke vote

to uh...

to... uh...

maybe I'll just stay on Wilgy

This post from you Syn came almost immediately after this post from Made, so I took it as you agreeing with him. Was that not the case?

not the case

Why'd you swap to sig? I couldn't find anything in your iso that suggested you sussed them, so to me, it looks there's no difference. If it was a wagon you were looking for, you had voiced suspicion of cat. Why'd you pick sig over cat

you're assigning serious intent to joke posts and I don't know if you're doing it on purpose lol

not much of a difference. sig was more aggressive than all the rest, seemed as good a choice as any, and easier to stand by than "I made a joke vote at SOD D1 and it resulted in that person getting chopped"

[Sloonei]

Anyone want to take responsibility for shooting alison?

[Marmot]

Two of us have already Sloon

[Marmot]

Who'd you target last night, Smoked Papri?

[Sloonei]

Who'd you target last night, Smoked Papri?

Alison

I figured if I was picked to shoot, it meant they wanted me to shoot Made, and that would mean Made is town. I was gonna clear Made as town if I was the only one to shoot Alison.

Made is still mafia, I guess, unless we can confirm that I was chosen to shoot.

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: made] aubergine

[Syn]

why errybody trying to shoot Alison?

[DrWilgy]

Alright the hell did I miss?

[Sloonei]

why errybody trying to shoot Alison?

1/3 bad read
1/3 tinfoil
1/3 mercy

[Alison]

Merry Christmas!

[Syn]

so how 'bout that mafia

[Samusamu]

Well, i dont like u guys trying to shoot alison.

There was no reason to shoot her in d1/n1.

I hope that from maf sig, but didnt expected from sloonei, and dont know what marmot will choose alison if she was his number #2.

[Samusamu]

so how 'bout that mafia

Also, why everybody choose they targets?

I dont want only the name, i want reasons.

Why u choose me?.

[Samusamu]

Also, @mewtini can u explain your last push in the eod?

[Samusamu]

Alright the hell did I miss?

You, i want a 3vs3 coming from u, with 2 o 3 sentences saying why.

[sig]

Well, i dont like u guys trying to shoot alison.

There was no reason to shoot her in d1/n1.

I hope that from maf sig, but didnt expected from sloonei, and dont know what marmot will choose alison if she was his number #2.

Why do you think I'm mafia again

[sig]

I shot syn, I figured if mafia gave it to me, they'd think I'd shoot alison and if she didn't die then she was for sure mafia and I'm fairly certain Syn is

[sig]

I really didn't like the last second scramble from syn onto me when we were about to switch over to wilgy. Since that caused me not to switch or we'd have had a tie

[Samusamu]

Well, i dont like u guys trying to shoot alison.

There was no reason to shoot her in d1/n1.

I hope that from maf sig, but didnt expected from sloonei, and dont know what marmot will choose alison if she was his number #2.

Why do you think I'm mafia again

I say that if u were mafia prob you will choose alison.

I cant see u as a town trying to shoot alison and not others.

Can u explain it to me?

[Samusamu]

I shot syn, I figured if mafia gave it to me, they'd think I'd shoot alison and if she didn't die then she was for sure mafia and I'm fairly certain Syn is

Oh i said nothing.

Why do u think syn is mafia, i said d1 why i townread him.

[Samusamu]

I really didn't like the last second scramble from syn onto me when we were about to switch over to wilgy. Since that caused me not to switch or we'd have had a tie

Anymore?

Are u saying u were forced to voted cat cause syn's vote?

[Syn]

I shot syn, I figured if mafia gave it to me, they'd think I'd shoot alison and if she didn't die then she was for sure mafia and I'm fairly certain Syn is

Oh i said nothing.

Why do u think syn is mafia, i said d1 why i townread him.

he said anyone who switched their vote was outing themselves, because that's apparently a thing

[Syn]

so how 'bout that mafia

Also, why everybody choose they targets?

I dont want only the name, i want reasons.

Why u choose me?.

just shooting on the fringe of the POE

I don't necessarily have anything specific against you so early in the game with little content

[Syn]

my big brain theory is that alison was NK'd because she's a strong thread presence who is active and that'd be bad (to the wolves) in a world of low posters

[Samusamu]

so how 'bout that mafia

Also, why everybody choose they targets?

I dont want only the name, i want reasons.

Why u choose me?.

just shooting on the fringe of the POE

I don't necessarily have anything specific against you so early in the game with little content

Can u do a 3vs3 with 2/3 sentences of each one?

[Syn]

no

[Marmot]

Well, i dont like u guys trying to shoot alison.

There was no reason to shoot her in d1/n1.

I hope that from maf sig, but didnt expected from sloonei, and dont know what marmot will choose alison if she was his number #2.

I agree, it was a ballzy call.

I picked Alison because she didn't get towncorey vibes, and I disagreed with many things that she said. In hindsight, I probably should've picked Wilgy.