Christmas Time Is Here Again

[Syn]

I chose to shoot Sloonei last night
Maybe we should string him up tight

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

this is a hell of a stretch

[Samusamu]

I chose to shoot Sloonei last night
Maybe we should string him up tight

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

this is a hell of a stretch

You should recieve coal irl for ignoring me and trolling

[Syn]

I chose to shoot Sloonei last night
Maybe we should string him up tight

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

this is a hell of a stretch

You should recieve coal irl for ignoring me and trolling

Sloonei won best player in Mafia Universe's Champs tournament this year

[Sloonei]

I chose to shoot Sloonei last night
Maybe we should string him up tight

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

this is a hell of a stretch

You should recieve coal irl for ignoring me and trolling

Sloonei won best player in Mafia Universe's Champs tournament this year

Long overdue, tbh

[Grand Scheme]

@Grand Scheme how much of this game have you read?

Though perhaps I have been slankier than most
I have dutifully skimmed through every post

[Sloonei]

@Grand Scheme how much of this game have you read?

Though perhaps I have been slankier than most
I have dutifully skimmed through every post

You must have missed the part where I am Santa-and-Mrs-Claus-confirmed, undeniably and without a shade of doubt, lock town.

[Grand Scheme]

@Grand Scheme how much of this game have you read?

Though perhaps I have been slankier than most
I have dutifully skimmed through every post

You must have missed the part where I am Santa-and-Mrs-Claus-confirmed, undeniably and without a shade of doubt, lock town.

I'm not gonna argue and wax philosophical
What you propose is quite comfortably possible

[Sloonei]

Well anyway, I’m gonna place a tentative vote on sig while I start digging.

[Sloonei]

Made ISO

Spoiler: show

I just wake up, coal on wilgy is wifom at the moment.

Changemymind.jpg

But it is not wifom If we want to look at the mental profile of the mafia, it is more interesting to take that into account.

Probably need to lynch a few of them first. I personally would coal my own buddy D1 but i tend to be a little insane so i don't expect a lot others to do it.

Think of it this way, you think it's safest to put it in a partner on d1.

The metagame causes you to think about who is more likely to put a partner or who is more likely to put a town.

You, who are human and have an ego, will want to be above your goal or not and will do the opposite of what you are expected to do or not. In the end your defence against such an accusation is as easy as saying, hey, that I wouldn't have done this, it is very obvious to me, or saying, hey, that this is the opposite of what I would do, it is not my "metagame".

That's why it's wifom.

As I pointed out before, the interesting thing about this fact comes now by reading the game and seeing how it develops.

Nah okay wait. If santa's elfs from hell don't get to kill people and only get to kill people through their one shot, then optimal play is to give your teammates the shot asap. Obv that's wifom, but that doesn't change the benefit you get from that. the more we talk about it thread, the more it becomes wifom, which is why I don't think this conversation serves town

I'm inclined to go ahead and lock Samu in as town for the way Made pushed him all of Day 1. It starts here. It continues. Samu is town and I'm not gonna bother spending time and energy on it unless there are important developments.

Spoiler: show

Wilgy's stocking is full of coal
But Grand Scheme will not judge his soul

Agreed with samu's Change My Mind
Wilgy's stocking is full of wine

I see your scheme as i see his coal
but with wifom can you not judge a soul

so direct are hearts to thing with meanings
Mr. Wilgy, what are your readings?

Made picks up Long Scheme's couplets but doesn't really say anything about Grand Con, just uses it to prod Wilgy without much weight or direction. I'd call this a good look for wilgy, or the start of one at least. Made wanted very much to push Wilgy and Syn together, and this is the first step in that direction.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Sig] aubergine

booo

Made is displeased with Samu's vote for Sig. Noted.

Spoiler: show

I don't think wilgy getting the coal means he's bad, but i do think wilgy shouldn't use to night shoot unless he's proves to be on the nice list, and right now he's on the middle place list

thoughts?

Made says what amounts to nothing about Wilgy, this post seems to exist solely for the purpose of making sure we don't all town-read the good Doctor. Wilgy town.

Spoiler: show

I see your scheme as i see his coal
but with wifom can you not judge a soul

so direct are hearts to thing with meanings
Mr. Wilgy, what are your readings?

Samu town,

Sig and Syn scum. Hbu?

Sig town,

Samu scum. Why is sig scum?

Wilgy responds to Made's vague prod with some direct reads: samu is town, sig and syn are not. Made disagrees with the reads on sig and samu. He ignores the Syn read altogether.
Samu is still town. Sig has now appeared twice in Made's ISO, both times Made has been disapproving of suspicion against him. Noted.

Spoiler: show

cat is a duck, and i do not like that

Just noting this for Made's treatment of the confirmed-town feline. Joke suspicion that seems to justify positioning himself on board with the Cat bandwagon, as indicated by his next post.

Spoiler: show

Cat, Samusamu, syn, and Mewtini please explain yourselves

I Refuse.

you're the only person in this town that I respect

this a meme or like....?

Kyle makes an appearance. It is nothing.

Spoiler: show

(my two cents is that i also don’t entirely jam with the playstyle, but i’m very hesitant to just call unfamiliar playstyles scummy esp in a new group; noting here that i’m a little frustrated by alison characterizing my “i don’t do hard scumreads d1” as a hedge + that she seemingly asked a question in the hopes of receiving a specific answer?)

top scum read? or is that the thing you don't do on d1???

Noting Made's treatment of mewtini. I'd still be suspicious of her if she was alive, so meh. He gives her a very generic prod.

Spoiler: show

Wilgy’s iso is bad. like really really bad

I've deduced that wilgy is good. Like really really good. (also i've got Sherlock on in the background as I type this up and Martin Freeman just said the word "deduce" at the exact moment I typed it. It's a Christmas miracle.)

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine feels like a more intentional cat, but somehow more airry

If this is how Made treated his teammate on Day 1 I will be very surprised.

may it please the court:

made
sig
syn
kyle
sloonei

GS
mew
cat


alison
wilgy
samu

Day 1 reads. Alison was town and I am inclined to say that each of the other two in the bottom tier are as well. Grand Scheme is the only living player left in the middle tier. I'm not sure how Made would be inclined to classify his teammates here, but I think it's evident he's not trying to bus. He may have been inclined to at least separate his teammates, in which case the Schemer is the obvious odd man out.

If Made wanted to list both of his teammates in the top tier, then we're probably looking at a sig + kyle team. It ain't me and I'm fairly sure after yesterday that it ain't Syn either. (More on that later in this ISO, I'm getting ahead of myself!)
Oh his very next post points out that Falcon/Marmot is absent both from the list and the game at this point. I cannot read much into their absence from the list: on the one hand, Made probably would be less likely to forget to include his absentee teammate in a list of reads, but on the other his acknowledgment that he forgot could also be indicative of a partnership, or the omission could be intentional. Gun to my head, I'll read Marmot as town by omission, but I'm not taking that to the bank or anywhere else, even.

Spoiler: show

may it please the court:

made
syn
kyle
sig
sloonei


GS
alison
mew
cat

wilgy
samu

iso'd alison and updated

cat alison interactions look good, alison sig interactions look bad.

[VOTE: Alison ] aubergine

This doesn't seem like your civ game st all. I don't think your vote on me is genuine. In fact you were taking advantage of samu vote to try and get a wagon started.

which post looks different? what are your reads generally?

Made ISOs Alison and bumps her up to the middle tier. But he makes the weird point that "alison sig interactions look bad." This means absolutely nothing since Alison is town and Made knows it. This is the first time in the game that Made has suggested any sort of negative stance adjacent to sig.
He asks him a follow-up question to a point he raised about Alison. It tells me nothing.

Spoiler: show

Mr. Sloonei, what's ur take on Syn?

Ms. Syn same question but for sloonei.

Made went to some length to try to shade both Syn and I. Later on there was an implication that we could be partnered, but he also emphasized that we were independently suspicious. If he pushed harder on the angle of us being partners then I would read this less in syn's favor. But instead Made tried to push Syn and I both in the same vein that he pushed Wilgy. I highly highly doubt that Made prioritized pushing me along with his two teammates. I also think it would be a bit silly if he pushed two civilians and one teammate in the same exact manner, especially since there was relatively little prompting to suspect either of Syn or Wilgy on Day 2. He did that on his own, and I think his intentions were uncomplicated: get one of us mischopped. Just look at his more detailed Day 2 reads list:

Spoiler: show

~Reading Rainbow~

civvie

Made is town

mew reads like a civvie whose out of element but doesn't force the "hey guise i don't know what's going on!?". Her end of day looks genuine

The Marmot recap pretty much follows my thinking beat for beat. wifom on the coal pt2 feels like a trap worth avoiding for now

Grand Scheme is a green utilitarian, and his rhymes are as fun as baseball is american.

Kyle doesn't feel like he's really pushing things in any direction. His post felt fluffy in thread on first read, but his iso doesn't. plus i love kyle <3

ehhhhh

sig's mechanic talk was kinda irrelevant, but in a civvie way. His alison vote looked weird, but im vibing with him today

samu looked worst for not moving things yesterday, but i like his pushes today

bad

sloonei insist that samu is obv town because and then argues i'm bad because and then argues mewtini is bad because all of it feels forced

syn's end of day looks AWFUL. if wilgy is bad then syn is the teammate.

wilgy's talk looked bad yesterday, EOD vote around him look bad, silence today looks bad. iunnlikeem

knowing [VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine's alignment feels like it gives us the most information

thoughts?

The three "bad" reads were a major part of my case against Made. The bad reads are bad. Syn is town. Wilgy is town. I am comfortable moving forward with each of these reads. Samu is also town. There's three. Yay.

Made has sig in the "ehhh" category, but his read struggles to actually commit to anything unfavorable ("kinda irrelevant, but in a civvie way" [What?] "alison vote looked weird, but im vibing with him"). This reads like a town read that is arbitrarily placed outside of the section for town reads. Not a good look for sig.

The read on Kyle is distinctly more negative than the read on sig. It is jarring to see them placed in the order they are. I'll call that a good look for Kyle.

Made has Grand Scheme as his third highest town read. That does not compute. That doesn't even come close to computing. Damn. I shouldn't have focused so much on the bad reads. The "civvie" reads are even worse. I would have liked to make Made expand on this read, because... like, what on earth has Grand Scheme done to earn any sort of town read, let alone this third from the top placement?
Oh by the way, did I mention that the top two town reads are mewtini and Marmot? Granted, mewtini is now confirmed town, but I struggle to see what she did in her time here to earn Top Town Read status (and this point is why I was confident she was partnered with Made, mistakenly). Marmot as the second top town read is not as outrageous, but still something that seems far-fetched, especially given that Made was lamenting the slot's absence the previous day.
I think the absence of convincing top town reads is more to do with Made's insistence on keeping Samu and I (the two most obvious townies in the game, if I may say so) down low on the list. Grand Scheme and Sig are the two names that stand out most: sig because he is placed lower on the list than he should be based on Made's own words, and Grand Scheme because Made has no words to say about him.
Based purely on this list, I'd name Marmot as a more likely suspect than Kyle. I think if Made wants to town-read his partner Kyle here, he can do so without this level of shade.

Re-reading the next section of posts where Made and I argue about his reads, I'm realizing he actually has a lot more to say about Wilgy than Syn. He has relatively little say about Syn, and most of it actually is in conjunction with mentions of my name. So maybe this is an effort on Made's part to tie me to his partner in the event that Syn goes down. But doing that would require Syn to be in the line of fire, which he is not. I'm still inclined to call Syn town.
The aggression of his push on wilgy is way too much to be bussing.

Spoiler: show

I'm like 60/40 on Made, I do think Sloonie comes off alot better in their discussion and made does look worse, but I'm also very confident in my Syn read.

I also like how confident you are on this, but I'm waffling.

My biggest issues with Made stem from the fact he did seem a bit opportunistic with Samu and how he waffled on me. Plus he didn't respond to Sloonie's case very well.

What do you think of my reasoning for sloonei, specifically his reads of mew and me?

Sig starts acknowledging that Made is a suspect. Made asks sig a generic question. beep boop. This tells me nothing.

And that's the end of it.

Samu
Wilgy
Syn
Kyle
Marmot
Grand Scheme
sig

[Kylemii]

sloonei is civ purely from the standpoint that if he's mafia and able to fake a post that long, then i would rather just lose to him than fight him

[Kylemii]

also for other reasons

[Kylemii]

i intend to do an iso thingy, at some point.

considering i work and this thing ends at 2pm on christmas it's unlikely that i'll get to it soon but it's on the things to do lust.

[Sloonei]

Sig & Made

Spoiler: show

Also I'll be back to reevaluate and take a deeper look at samu after work today.

Other random thoughts

Made may be trying to budd/pocket me, not a fan of this slight ping.

Wilgy makes an interesting point without straying to deep down the meta hole i think we can accurately say at least one mafia member is a TS native. Still iffy on him.

I don't think sloonie is on samu team that's mainly gut though.

"Made may be trying to pocket me" which is an alleged ping. Keeps the door open to arbitrary Wilgy suspicion. Sloonei and Samu are not partners. Cool. How does this Made read progress?

Spoiler: show

Mew, made and sloonie look good right now,

LC is slanking a bit and that pings me

Made looks good. Okay. Why? Made's most recent posts before this one were pushes on cat and samu. I think neither looked good.

Spoiler: show

may it please the court:

made
syn
kyle
sig
sloonei


GS
alison
mew
cat

wilgy
samu

iso'd alison and updated

cat alison interactions look good, alison sig interactions look bad.

[VOTE: Alison ] aubergine

This doesn't seem like your civ game st all. I don't think your vote on me is genuine. In fact you were taking advantage of samu vote to try and get a wagon started.

which post looks different? what are your reads generally?

Someone else also said this. But she's not attempting to be a town leader really and even more damning is the lack of any desire to talk mechanics.

She's also being alot more nitpicky and only seems to be focusing in on me which isn't what I saw from previous games from her.

Sig responds to Made's generic prod RE: Alison with a decidedly negative stance. Okay.

Spoiler: show

Quick read list atm in no order

Town
Sloonie
Lc
Mew

Town lean
Made
Samu
Syn

Null
Falcon


Scum lean
Kyle
Wilgy
Cat

Scum
Alison

Made is a "town lean" with Samu and Syn. Noting that Long Scheme is a top town read for sig as well. What is happening here?
"Scum leans" are Kyle, wilgy, and cat. That wilgy read is dubious, as always. I don't know why the Kyle read exists.

Spoiler: show

I'm leery of a Made lynch I'll review the cases today but he seems to be playing within his normal civ meta.

I'd say he'd be a good present target also (Made) but jd prefer to lynch syn/wilgy since if ones mafia I'm certain they both are

I was pleading with everyone to acknowledge my Made case and it finally started to gain traction. Sig didn't seem to like that, but he can't bring himself to outright defend Made. I have no idea why he thinks Made would be better suited for a shot-in-the-dark nightkill than a chop.

Spoiler: show

Made would probably be my secondary counterwagon to Syn, Wilgy should only be lynched/shot if Syn is mafia. Otherwise alot of the reasoning for me would be gone.

Now I'd prefer to lynch Syn for the shot dynamics. If Syn is civ shoot Made. If Syn is mafia shoot Wilgy. Either way I'd say we'd be down 1-2 mafia members. Since I don't see a world where all 3 are civs based off the cases made.

Made is distinctly not Sig's priority. Noted.

Spoiler: show

Also I know it's the holiday, but the thread is very stagnate. Which makes me wonder if we're going in the complete wrong direction here.

Talk about made.

I'm torn. So, I think you raised some good points I especially find the mew/made connection a bit weird. But he's had the same views as I do with Wilgy and Samu which earns him some town points.

From a meta view there isn't alot to go on for me he's always been harder for me to get an angle on, but as far as what I've seen it seems more in line with his civ game.

The biggest thing that's making me a bitch sketchy is how his opinion on me evolved, it seems like he was buddying me D1, then when I mentioned I was pinged a bit he suddenly finds me more scummy.

I disliked this post and it was where I really started to suspect a sig/made pairing. Sig's hesitance is right there on his face, and the point he chooses to emphasize ("the mew/made connection") was hardly a primary piece of my argument against Made and, as we now know, it is one that obviously would have given him a nice easy scapegoat today in the aftermath of Made's flip.
I was also skeptical of sig's citation of Made's meta. It's been a while since Made played. I have a hard time buying that sig has a distinct working memory of the differences between Made's town/mafia metas.

Spoiler: show

I also disagree with you on Syn, regardless of anything else that's scummy.

Honestly the biggest reason I'd switch to Made is since you're so sure of it and i've basically got you down as a lock civ

Okay, Imma reread the entire Sloonie vs Made thing real fast

First, sig continues to push Syn while all of this is happening.
Second, Sig has reluctantly come along to offer the most tentative possible support of the Made case on the basis of my confidence in the read. No mention of specific points (such as the mew/made connection, for instance), just citation of my read. But then, after that, he says he'll go and read the case. Which... if he hasn't done that yet then why's he agreeing with aspects of it? Bad post from sig.

Spoiler: show

I'm like 60/40 on Made, I do think Sloonie comes off alot better in their discussion and made does look worse, but I'm also very confident in my Syn read.

I also like how confident you are on this, but I'm waffling.

My biggest issues with Made stem from the fact he did seem a bit opportunistic with Samu and how he waffled on me. Plus he didn't respond to Sloonie's case very well.

Sig continues to drag his feet toward Made's inevitable chop. But he won't let go of Syn.
His "biggest issue" with Made has changed now to his treatment of Samu. The connection to mewtini is not mentioned. This feels like a false progression.

Spoiler: show

So did a quick reread of made, since I'm aware the clock is running out.

I'm still worried this could be town/town, at the same time
1. i don't see sloonie or samu dropping this so it needs to be resolved and we still can loose a civ and be fine number wise.
2. Sloonie is a solid town read and samu is a moderate town read, so I don't think this is a case of mafia trying to redirect onto made
3. The more I read over Made day 1 action the less I like it specifically how he seemed to partly use me as a reason to vote for samu and my argument around mechanjc but then dropped it d2 and said that didn't make me seem civil. I don't see how that can coexist if he was scum reading samu for opposing my shot idea/me. But then also doesn't clear me for it.

Made's chop is inevitable at this point. Sig says so himself. This feels a bit more strained than it should: I don't really buy it at all when Sig says that his Syn suspicion is as strong or stronger than the argument against Made. By his own admission, the Syn case is flawed, but he refuses to let go of it for no particular reason.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: made] aubergine

I'm not really sold on this lynch tbh, not very confident he's gonna flip mafia but. There's enough that I do see the case sloonie made and I do trust him totally. We also do need to resolve it and can't really trust the gift to 100% go to either him or syn.

I do think we should shoot syn though.

He votes for Made ~30 minutes before EoD. I still feel like he's straining here. This is not the vote he wants to cast (he spends too much time justifying the vote in ways that don't actually involve Made), but he has no other choice.

At this point I will be surprised if sig is town.

[Sloonei]

sloonei is civ purely from the standpoint that if he's mafia and able to fake a post that long, then i would rather just lose to him than fight him

Kyle haven't you heard that I'm literally the best mafia player in the world now?

[Sloonei]

Who's telling cat things?

There's not been a word 'tween he and I
But cat's belief could be TMI

And of all the posts that have been played
The towniest, to me, is Made.

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

For very good, very legitimate reasons.

Sloonie my dear, what are you're thoughts on shots and my back and forth with Samu

you are both town

Okay, then who isn't?

You, kyle, and mewtini

Though they could act with utmost guile
I do not think it's sig and Kyle

I declared a scum team of Made/kyle/mewtini. Long Scheme responds by saying it's not sig and kyle. I never mentioned sig. I mentioned Made. Made, the player he had just called "the towniest" a few posts earlier. He has nothing to say about that. No objection. In a comment that exists purely to object.

And that's it. There is not enough here to be damning, but I still don't like it. I'll do Marmot and Kyle if I have a moment later on, but holiday festivities beckon me.

Merry Christmas!

[Sloonei]

Well, holiday festivities don't beckon me this instant. It's 3 AM. I'm the only creature stirring in the house. But, later.

[Samusamu]

I chose to shoot Sloonei last night
Maybe we should string him up tight

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

this is a hell of a stretch

You should recieve coal irl for ignoring me and trolling

Sloonei won best player in Mafia Universe's Champs tournament this year

Ah, the champiomshit, i know, i played and vote for him in first round .

[Samusamu]

i noddle everytime i read slooney, my screenshots of yesterday reread are the same than he mention.

And our list are pretty similar but my poe was something like.

Grand scheme
Kyle
Marmot
Sig.

Well, i screenshot the same post of gs saying that made was town but skipped the other part that slooney mention. That makes me like

@Syn @DrWilgy and the rest of the town.

If sig flips scum and we shoot in the poe the game prob is won by mechanics.

So today have to be consensus with the names.

It is okey for everybody

[Samusamu]

i noddle everytime i read slooney, my screenshots of yesterday reread are the same than he mention.

And our list are pretty similar but my poe was something like.

Grand scheme
Kyle
Marmot
Sig.

Well, i screenshot the same post of gs saying that made was town but skipped the other part that slooney mention. That makes me like

@Syn @DrWilgy and the rest of the town.

If sig flips scum and we shoot in the poe the game prob is won by mechanics.

So today have to be consensus with the names.

It is okey for everybody

It is okey for everybody?

[Samusamu]

Who's telling cat things?

There's not been a word 'tween he and I
But cat's belief could be TMI

And of all the posts that have been played
The towniest, to me, is Made.

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

For very good, very legitimate reasons.

Sloonie my dear, what are you're thoughts on shots and my back and forth with Samu

you are both town

Okay, then who isn't?

You, kyle, and mewtini

Though they could act with utmost guile
I do not think it's sig and Kyle

I declared a scum team of Made/kyle/mewtini. Long Scheme responds by saying it's not sig and kyle. I never mentioned sig. I mentioned Made. Made, the player he had just called "the towniest" a few posts earlier. He has nothing to say about that. No objection. In a comment that exists purely to object.

And that's it. There is not enough here to be damning, but I still don't like it. I'll do Marmot and Kyle if I have a moment later on, but holiday festivities beckon me.

Merry Christmas!

This about gs is what i didnt noticed.

[Samusamu]

sloonei is civ purely from the standpoint that if he's mafia and able to fake a post that long, then i would rather just lose to him than fight him

Is not only being long, the analysis, the how its said, the what is said, when (momentum) or why ( agenda).

The active tone with natural thought process.

Thats inst easy to fake.

Its not the first time a deepwolf faked to me that kind of things, but only two or three times i didnt saw differences between a great town or a great deepwolf in a scum.

There is nothing that puts me on alert from Slooney.

And usually i put townlean with 2 o 3 points of 7 i usually analize.

He is just 7/7

[Samusamu]

Well, really if i know some of meta it can be 8.

But that doesnt matter.

[Samusamu]

Every time I speak, people disappear

[sig]

Sig & Made

Spoiler: show

Also I'll be back to reevaluate and take a deeper look at samu after work today.

Other random thoughts

Made may be trying to budd/pocket me, not a fan of this slight ping.

Wilgy makes an interesting point without straying to deep down the meta hole i think we can accurately say at least one mafia member is a TS native. Still iffy on him.

I don't think sloonie is on samu team that's mainly gut though.

"Made may be trying to pocket me" which is an alleged ping. Keeps the door open to arbitrary Wilgy suspicion. Sloonei and Samu are not partners. Cool. How does this Made read progress?

Spoiler: show

Mew, made and sloonie look good right now,

LC is slanking a bit and that pings me

Made looks good. Okay. Why? Made's most recent posts before this one were pushes on cat and samu. I think neither looked good.

Spoiler: show

may it please the court:

made
syn
kyle
sig
sloonei


GS
alison
mew
cat

wilgy
samu

iso'd alison and updated

cat alison interactions look good, alison sig interactions look bad.

[VOTE: Alison ] aubergine

This doesn't seem like your civ game st all. I don't think your vote on me is genuine. In fact you were taking advantage of samu vote to try and get a wagon started.

which post looks different? what are your reads generally?

Someone else also said this. But she's not attempting to be a town leader really and even more damning is the lack of any desire to talk mechanics.

She's also being alot more nitpicky and only seems to be focusing in on me which isn't what I saw from previous games from her.

Sig responds to Made's generic prod RE: Alison with a decidedly negative stance. Okay.

Spoiler: show

Quick read list atm in no order

Town
Sloonie
Lc
Mew

Town lean
Made
Samu
Syn

Null
Falcon


Scum lean
Kyle
Wilgy
Cat

Scum
Alison

Made is a "town lean" with Samu and Syn. Noting that Long Scheme is a top town read for sig as well. What is happening here?
"Scum leans" are Kyle, wilgy, and cat. That wilgy read is dubious, as always. I don't know why the Kyle read exists.

Spoiler: show

I'm leery of a Made lynch I'll review the cases today but he seems to be playing within his normal civ meta.

I'd say he'd be a good present target also (Made) but jd prefer to lynch syn/wilgy since if ones mafia I'm certain they both are

I was pleading with everyone to acknowledge my Made case and it finally started to gain traction. Sig didn't seem to like that, but he can't bring himself to outright defend Made. I have no idea why he thinks Made would be better suited for a shot-in-the-dark nightkill than a chop.

Spoiler: show

Made would probably be my secondary counterwagon to Syn, Wilgy should only be lynched/shot if Syn is mafia. Otherwise alot of the reasoning for me would be gone.

Now I'd prefer to lynch Syn for the shot dynamics. If Syn is civ shoot Made. If Syn is mafia shoot Wilgy. Either way I'd say we'd be down 1-2 mafia members. Since I don't see a world where all 3 are civs based off the cases made.

Made is distinctly not Sig's priority. Noted.

Spoiler: show

Also I know it's the holiday, but the thread is very stagnate. Which makes me wonder if we're going in the complete wrong direction here.

Talk about made.

I'm torn. So, I think you raised some good points I especially find the mew/made connection a bit weird. But he's had the same views as I do with Wilgy and Samu which earns him some town points.

From a meta view there isn't alot to go on for me he's always been harder for me to get an angle on, but as far as what I've seen it seems more in line with his civ game.

The biggest thing that's making me a bitch sketchy is how his opinion on me evolved, it seems like he was buddying me D1, then when I mentioned I was pinged a bit he suddenly finds me more scummy.

I disliked this post and it was where I really started to suspect a sig/made pairing. Sig's hesitance is right there on his face, and the point he chooses to emphasize ("the mew/made connection") was hardly a primary piece of my argument against Made and, as we now know, it is one that obviously would have given him a nice easy scapegoat today in the aftermath of Made's flip.
I was also skeptical of sig's citation of Made's meta. It's been a while since Made played. I have a hard time buying that sig has a distinct working memory of the differences between Made's town/mafia metas.

Spoiler: show

I also disagree with you on Syn, regardless of anything else that's scummy.

Honestly the biggest reason I'd switch to Made is since you're so sure of it and i've basically got you down as a lock civ

Okay, Imma reread the entire Sloonie vs Made thing real fast

First, sig continues to push Syn while all of this is happening.
Second, Sig has reluctantly come along to offer the most tentative possible support of the Made case on the basis of my confidence in the read. No mention of specific points (such as the mew/made connection, for instance), just citation of my read. But then, after that, he says he'll go and read the case. Which... if he hasn't done that yet then why's he agreeing with aspects of it? Bad post from sig.

Spoiler: show

I'm like 60/40 on Made, I do think Sloonie comes off alot better in their discussion and made does look worse, but I'm also very confident in my Syn read.

I also like how confident you are on this, but I'm waffling.

My biggest issues with Made stem from the fact he did seem a bit opportunistic with Samu and how he waffled on me. Plus he didn't respond to Sloonie's case very well.

Sig continues to drag his feet toward Made's inevitable chop. But he won't let go of Syn.
His "biggest issue" with Made has changed now to his treatment of Samu. The connection to mewtini is not mentioned. This feels like a false progression.

Spoiler: show

So did a quick reread of made, since I'm aware the clock is running out.

I'm still worried this could be town/town, at the same time
1. i don't see sloonie or samu dropping this so it needs to be resolved and we still can loose a civ and be fine number wise.
2. Sloonie is a solid town read and samu is a moderate town read, so I don't think this is a case of mafia trying to redirect onto made
3. The more I read over Made day 1 action the less I like it specifically how he seemed to partly use me as a reason to vote for samu and my argument around mechanjc but then dropped it d2 and said that didn't make me seem civil. I don't see how that can coexist if he was scum reading samu for opposing my shot idea/me. But then also doesn't clear me for it.

Made's chop is inevitable at this point. Sig says so himself. This feels a bit more strained than it should: I don't really buy it at all when Sig says that his Syn suspicion is as strong or stronger than the argument against Made. By his own admission, the Syn case is flawed, but he refuses to let go of it for no particular reason.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: made] aubergine

I'm not really sold on this lynch tbh, not very confident he's gonna flip mafia but. There's enough that I do see the case sloonie made and I do trust him totally. We also do need to resolve it and can't really trust the gift to 100% go to either him or syn.

I do think we should shoot syn though.

He votes for Made ~30 minutes before EoD. I still feel like he's straining here. This is not the vote he wants to cast (he spends too much time justifying the vote in ways that don't actually involve Made), but he has no other choice.

At this point I will be surprised if sig is town.

I'll respond to this more later, but honeslty it's a weak case.

1. I've played recent games with Made so that's moot, its just still ongoing so cant really be discussed.
2. Why is it odd for me to "drag my feet" I was literally the only player engaged in the Made discussion ive been up front the entire time in everything just because I didn't jump on the wagon and sheep shouldn't mean anything.
3. I really hate that you just continue to dismiss or flat out ignore what I and others have said about syn and wilgy. Seems disingenuous.

[sig]

Also you should be familiar enough with my meta to know as mafia I'd either hard defend made or throw him under early. I was waffling on my read since i legit couldn't make up my mind on him.

[sig]

And im not sure how I feel about GS theory, but at the same time I can't see why sloonie is still alive if he's a civ. And he's hard bussed teammates before very recently and made it to end game because of it.

@Marmot what do you think

[sig]

And this push on me feels very disingenuous

[Samusamu]

And im not sure how I feel about GS theory, but at the same time I can't see why sloonie is still alive if he's a civ. And he's hard bussed teammates before very recently and made it to end game because of it.

@Marmot what do you think

The mafia made sure to kill alison n1 and now they can't just do it.

[Samusamu]

And this push on me feels very disingenuous

Point what do u feel disingenuous

[sig]

And im not sure how I feel about GS theory, but at the same time I can't see why sloonie is still alive if he's a civ. And he's hard bussed teammates before very recently and made it to end game because of it.

@Marmot what do you think

The mafia made sure to kill alison n1 and now they can't just do it.

Why do you think the mafia did that though? Multiple people said they shot her

[Syn]

Also you should be familiar enough with my meta to know as mafia I'd either hard defend made or throw him under early. I was waffling on my read since i legit couldn't make up my mind on him.

m e t a

[Syn]

[VOTE: Grand Scheme] aubergine

[sig]

Look ive had so called "crazy" theories before.

Best example was last year's game of champions where I knew Mac as a mafia member silenced me night 1 nobody believed me even when I essentially named the entire team and they went on to win.

The fact sloonie is so quick to just dismiss what happened eod 1 with syn and not even mention Marmot case is odd. Now all of them can't be mafia but hes gone to great length to protect wilgy it seems like. He's also known for bussing.

I'm not at the point where I think we should lynch sloonie today but he knows I have a history of being an easy mislynch and I really dont like how he set up his pov.

[sig]

Also you should be familiar enough with my meta to know as mafia I'd either hard defend made or throw him under early. I was waffling on my read since i legit couldn't make up my mind on him.

m e t a

Shhh

[Syn]

i noddle everytime i read slooney, my screenshots of yesterday reread are the same than he mention.

And our list are pretty similar but my poe was something like.

Grand scheme
Kyle
Marmot
Sig.

Well, i screenshot the same post of gs saying that made was town but skipped the other part that slooney mention. That makes me like

@Syn @DrWilgy and the rest of the town.

If sig flips scum and we shoot in the poe the game prob is won by mechanics.

So today have to be consensus with the names.

It is okey for everybody

I have no reason to suspect Sloonei as deep woof

And honestly, there's no way I can match his WIM here, especially on phpBB

so I promise to pick the other person in Sloonei's most sus POE as my target if sig/lc flip red

[Samusamu]

And im not sure how I feel about GS theory, but at the same time I can't see why sloonie is still alive if he's a civ. And he's hard bussed teammates before very recently and made it to end game because of it.

@Marmot what do you think

The mafia made sure to kill alison n1 and now they can't just do it.

Why do you think the mafia did that though? Multiple people said they shot her

I would, why wouldn't you want to make sure you remove a good player like alison?

[Samusamu]

Look ive had so called "crazy" theories before.

Best example was last year's game of champions where I knew Mac as a mafia member silenced me night 1 nobody believed me even when I essentially named the entire team and they went on to win.

The fact sloonie is so quick to just dismiss what happened eod 1 with syn and not even mention Marmot case is odd. Now all of them can't be mafia but hes gone to great length to protect wilgy it seems like. He's also known for bussing.

I'm not at the point where I think we should lynch sloonie today but he knows I have a history of being an easy mislynch and I really dont like how he set up his pov.

You werent linched yesterday or d1.

D1 i wanted your head, but you look and defend yourself better than cat.

Today you are defending yourself and having time to put your thoughts in order in case you are town.

But to insinuate that because you are usually easy to lynch, you shouldn't be seen in d3 for your interactions and other reads like Alison's, is something that insults my competitive spirit.

[sig]

Look ive had so called "crazy" theories before.

Best example was last year's game of champions where I knew Mac as a mafia member silenced me night 1 nobody believed me even when I essentially named the entire team and they went on to win.

The fact sloonie is so quick to just dismiss what happened eod 1 with syn and not even mention Marmot case is odd. Now all of them can't be mafia but hes gone to great length to protect wilgy it seems like. He's also known for bussing.

I'm not at the point where I think we should lynch sloonie today but he knows I have a history of being an easy mislynch and I really dont like how he set up his pov.

You werent linched yesterday or d1.

D1 i wanted your head, but you look and defend yourself better than cat.

Today you are defending yourself and having time to put your thoughts in order in case you are town.

But to insinuate that because you are usually easy to lynch, you shouldn't be seen in d3 for your interactions and other reads like Alison's, is something that insults my competitive spirit.

I've got no issue defending myself but when someone who's played with me for years doesn't even bother to look at my entire game, instead just going for made and throwing a vote there it's worth bringing up.

Especially since imo I don't look bad at all from it.


For the mafia kill we can go back and forth on that forever but I don't think it makes sense to waste the kill d1 when they only get one. So I've been operating with the assumption it was a misshoot by civs.

[sig]

And I could see a case by you, but imo there are alot better lynch targets today for sloonie he also only seemed to have looked at me. Just seems a bit sketchy.

[Samusamu]

And I could see a case by you, but imo there are alot better lynch targets today for sloonie he also only seemed to have looked at me. Just seems a bit sketchy.

Oh, well do the case!

Maybe you convice me to vote myself

[sig]

And I could see a case by you, but imo there are alot better lynch targets today for sloonie he also only seemed to have looked at me. Just seems a bit sketchy.

Oh, well do the case!

Maybe you convice me to vote myself

No I'm saying I could see you making the case on me. But, not sloonie given what he said previous days

[Sloonei]

And I could see a case by you, but imo there are alot better lynch targets today for sloonie he also only seemed to have looked at me. Just seems a bit sketchy.

Oh, well do the case!

Maybe you convice me to vote myself

No I'm saying I could see you making the case on me. But, not sloonie given what he said previous days

Why?

[Sloonei]

Look ive had so called "crazy" theories before.

Best example was last year's game of champions where I knew Mac as a mafia member silenced me night 1 nobody believed me even when I essentially named the entire team and they went on to win.

The fact sloonie is so quick to just dismiss what happened eod 1 with syn and not even mention Marmot case is odd. Now all of them can't be mafia but hes gone to great length to protect wilgy it seems like. He's also known for bussing.

I'm not at the point where I think we should lynch sloonie today but he knows I have a history of being an easy mislynch and I really dont like how he set up his pov.

You werent linched yesterday or d1.

D1 i wanted your head, but you look and defend yourself better than cat.

Today you are defending yourself and having time to put your thoughts in order in case you are town.

But to insinuate that because you are usually easy to lynch, you shouldn't be seen in d3 for your interactions and other reads like Alison's, is something that insults my competitive spirit.

I've got no issue defending myself but when someone who's played with me for years doesn't even bother to look at my entire game, instead just going for made and throwing a vote there it's worth bringing up.

Especially since imo I don't look bad at all from it.


For the mafia kill we can go back and forth on that forever but I don't think it makes sense to waste the kill d1 when they only get one. So I've been operating with the assumption it was a misshoot by civs.

We’ve played together for years, yes. So you should know that this is always the first thing I do when we get a mafia flip.

[Samusamu]

And I could see a case by you, but imo there are alot better lynch targets today for sloonie he also only seemed to have looked at me. Just seems a bit sketchy.

Oh, well do the case!

Maybe you convice me to vote myself

No I'm saying I could see you making the case on me. But, not sloonie given what he said previous days

D1 i wasnt right doing a case against you by your reaction, why now you could see it?

[Samusamu]

And I could see a case by you, but imo there are alot better lynch targets today for sloonie he also only seemed to have looked at me. Just seems a bit sketchy.

Oh, well do the case!

Maybe you convice me to vote myself

Why do you, sig, avoid saying i have coal?

[Sloonei]

Wilgy's stocking is full of coal
But Grand Scheme will not judge his soul

Agreed with samu's Change My Mind
Wilgy's stocking is full of wine

I see your scheme as i see his coal
but with wifom can you not judge a soul

so direct are hearts to thing with meanings
Mr. Wilgy, what are your readings?

Samu town,

Sig and Syn scum. Hbu?

This is the only interaction with or about Made in Wilgy's ISO from Days 1-2.

Wilgy has 19 posts and Made pushed him harder than anyone else in the game. I am not overly concerned with the lack of content.

[Sloonei]

Marmot's first post is his massive ketchup wall. He gives Made an early town read for Made's public lesson on coal. Not unfair.
The most substantial point RE: Made is difficult to follow:

I've generally felt good about Sloonei and null on Made, but the end of this interaction is weird.

If Made doesn't believe Sloonei, normally that would mean he scumreads Sloonei.

I get that townies are far less likely to lie than wolves, but the question Sloonei asked in response is still weird. I can't put my finger on why.

It is unclear from this which of us (me or Made) Marmot says he feels "weird" about. The first line gives no indication what the source of the weirdness is. The second line would indicate Made is the weird one. The third directly states that I am the weird one.
Could you explain this response in more detail, O Christmas Marmot?

Spoiler: show

Current reads


Town:
Marmot
Sig
Samusamu
Sloonei
Grand Scheme

Middling:
Mewtini
Syn
Made

Scum:
Kylemii
DrWilgy

Marmot has Made in the middle tier of his reads list, shared with Mewtini and Syn. Kyle and Wilgy are at the bottom.
Why is everyone listing Grand Scheme as a town read in all these lists?

Incidental mention of Made in a discussion with Syn about Wilgy.

Spoiler: show

Also end of day is really early. the cat wagon feels under developed, and I don’t like samu’s vote there. where are people on mewtini?? Wilgy???

Wilgy’s iso is bad. like really really bad

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine feels like a more intentional cat, but somehow more airry

@Sloonei I thought this series of posts was sincere. I also think Wilgy's scum, and this is a great look for Made if I'm wrong.

Direct defense of Made when I prompted the thread for pro-Made arguments. Not the best look in the world, but he was just answering my question. But Marmot was the only one to really step up to the plate here, and I can't not give that some weight here. I'll also note that this is a different point than the one Marmot raised to give Made town credit earlier, if that means anything.

Spoiler: show

Oh carp, I forgot day ended now, although my vote doesn't count anyway, so whatever

If posting is still permitted, everyone should post their targets tonight imo. My pick is Wilgy.

Also, I don't think Made is mafia, but I do generally townread the voters on his wagon (and not just because their names all start with s)

Implicit support of the Made wagon. This is more direct than sig's implicit support. I still don't love the way it looks, but if I'm comparing those two then Marmot is better. But not by a lot.

This is not a comprehensive Marmot ISO, obviously, and I don't have much of a feel for his game as a whole right now. But the Made interactions are Not So Great.

[Grand Scheme]

My defense of Made was erroneous
But truly, I am not felonious!
My teammate treatment is not so blatant
This is a result of being vacant
That's why I accused you, Sloon
Imagining a bussing goon
Light skims during this busy season
Unwise snap judgments, that's the reason

[Sloonei]

Syn & Made.

I don't think wilgy getting the coal means he's bad, but i do think wilgy shouldn't use to night shoot unless he's proves to be on the nice list, and right now he's on the middle place list

thoughts?

coal isn't gun

and I think we're forced to submit a target, so no gift holstering

Syn is Made's mechanics tutor. Idk how real Made's confusion over mechanics was. It's possible he really misunderstood. If he was faking a "derpclear" then Syn could be his accomplice in this. I have no reason to allege that that is the case. It's not impossible that Made's confusion was genuine.

Spoiler: show

cat is a duck, and i do not like that

It's a goose.
I don't like you being wrong .
[VOTE: Made] aubergine

that's even worse

This looks like a joke. But I thought Canadians loved their geese.

Now @Syn i'm being imperative saying to you to do a 3vs3.

what's a 3vs3?

I'm assuming three town, three wolves

maybe?

I'm going to read way more into this casual exchange than I have any right to: I think it's a good look for Syn that he responded to this question. If Made and Syn are partners then I think they're less likely to pay attention to minor moments like this from one another, just because they're scheming behind the scenes and being careful about how they interact in public. This reads exactly like Syn just trying to be a helpful civilian when he spots some confusion. I could say something similar about the earlier mechanics tutor session.

Ms. Syn same question but for sloonei.

I would die for Sloonei

Several points:
Made asked Syn and I for reads on each other. I don't feel like Made does that if Syn is his partner. It's unprompted, out of leftfield, and invites a bit of danger to his partner's doorstep for no reason. He's also doing it so that he can go on to spin a web of suspicion around each of us. I don't think this is what bussing looks like 99 times out of 100.
Syn's answer is probably not the one Made wanted, and it also looks like he is completely unphased by the question. If this is distancing, Syn looks very casual while doing it. And they have no strategic reason to be engaging in it at this stage of the game.

And creating a tie that mafia would of resolved

my vote did not tie a damn thing

sig's whole "I was gonna switch but syn made me stay on cat " is a lie because my vote went through at the last possible second, he couldn't have switched unless he was gonna do it post-close

Yeah this isn't distancing. Syn was bothered by the accusation so much that his reaction couldn't be contained to one post. He gave the initial snappy retort, and then after hitting Submit he collected himself and came back with a more substantive response. This is a real reaction to a real bogus accusation.

laissez-faire post like syn and get wolf read

put in effort and case people like sloonei and get wolf read

be named Made and be locked town

Syn mocks the Made-wagon detractors. Syn is town.

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

The vote for Made. This is a foregone conclusion. I think all evidence points to this being a real vote. If Syn and Made are teammates, Syn is a brilliant actor.

Bonus points for this post:

who am I meant to be distancing from

This post immediately follows Syn's Made vote in his ISO. I think it's an extremely bold thing to post if he's Made's teammate, and the bluntness of it reads as if Syn thinks the premise is ludicrous, and hasn't even considered a world where could be perceived as distancing (from Made). Syn is town. Lock it in.

[Sloonei]

Kyle & Made

Cat, Samusamu, syn, and Mewtini please explain yourselves

I Refuse.

you're the only person in this town that I respect

this a meme or like....?

I've never memed a single day in my life.

Authenticators have confirmed that this exchange exists.

Please give me your most biased accounts of each case as you can muster and I will vote accordingly

Made is mafia. He made wilgy get coal.

amazing, what about the other two

This one too. I do not read this as Kyle trying to "change the subject" from Made or anything like that. I think he just showed up late and wanted to know what was happening.

That's it. There is nothing here. I can't really award Kyle any townie points for the content, though the lack of content might be worth something: If Made is his partner then I expect Kyle to show some nervousness or effort to save him at EoD2. He did not end up voting at all. The anti-Kyle argument is that he didn't have a way to comfortably justify a vote on a counterwagon, if one even existed by the time he arrived (i forget. was working and didn't have an eye on the poll, but it seemed made was comfortably in the lead so i wasn't worried). But I think Kyle's nonchalance is a slightly good look here. Light town read.