Fargo Mafia [Game Ends]

[Sloonei]

I meant. Now convinced. He is mafia. Fucking typo.

What gives you this confidence?

[tutuu]

I dont know this for sure but i do think mafia michelle is probably not given enough credit to. We'll see

[KZA]

I am not 100% convinced KZA is mafia.

I meant. Now convinced. He is mafia. Fucking typo.

[tutuu]

I am not 100% convinced KZA is mafia.

I meant. Now convinced. He is mafia. Fucking typo.

LMAOOOOOO HOW ARE U SO CUTE

also u have it written that u dont mind any pronouns, do u mind if i use she/her for u? ur just so cuuuuuuuute

[KZA]

LMAOOOOOO HOW ARE U SO CUTE

also u have it written that u dont mind any pronouns, do u mind if i use she/her for u? ur just so cuuuuuuuute

yes that is okay

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Everyone >1000 posted in the GoC.

There was a goc?

[Sloonei]

Everyone >1000 posted in the GoC.

There was a goc?

we weren't invited.

[tutuu]

lmao

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Everyone >1000 posted in the GoC.

There was a goc?

we weren't invited.

Pretty rude to have a GoC and not invite the mafia team tbb

[tedxtr]

Spoiler: show

What'd I miss?

Numerous micro-interactions between various pairs and trios of players that could not be effectively summarized without writing a novel. You might be well advised to try catching up with ISOs instead of forcing yourself through the thread. If you want to do that though, you do you.

My tactic in large games has been to largely ignore everything that happens until halfway through Day 1 for my own sanity. That said, town has lost every such game. I'll start with SPF and KZA isos.


Why are you voting me and why do you have 100+ posts already?

what are these questions

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

what is this question x2

This game already feels like a civilian win. Strut your stuff town gang and we can climb the 2021 leaderboard in no time. Just do your thing, because you've been blessed with a state of total solving comfort.

JJJ trying to make this game look easy on page 2. I dislike.

i dunno if marmot is that type of mafia player archetype where he picks up on specific stuff to call out, given that he hasn't been around in a long time and just recently picked up the pace, i'm gonna go with a slight villager look

@staypositivefriend how d'ya think you'll wield your vote once you decide not to chop yourself?

my vote would probably land on aL_sama, marmot, or ted right now. i honestly don't have a single name that i can point to as definitely being scum right now though - i moreso have the game divided between "probably town" and "probably not town"

I also had a salad for dinner tonight.

my number one takeaway from this game so far is that i don't understand what "salad" means :P

"I would vote A, B, or C" is close to the prototype for the player salad tell. It's suggestive of keeping one's options wide open when not comfortable committing to suspicions. What's holding you back from placing one of those votes right now?

that makes sense - i would say that i am thinking in salad terms right now because of the particular gamestate we're in

i'm not at a point where i can confidently point to one player and say "this person is a wolf", but i am at a point where i can point to a pool of people and say "this pool probably has wolves", and vice versa for town. the more specific wolfreads tend to come later in the game when i've had more time to interrogate people and feel things out

there's nothing particularly holding me back from making a vote right now, either. i just don't feel particularly inspired to do it at the moment. it'll happen

JJJ said this game would be easy, but it never actually is.

Also, that's a lot of adverbs and use of the word "particular" in one post.

I don't think he's ever gone for this line as a wolf before? Correct me if wrong

My concern about tutuu is that she's been all over the place, playing a cute version of Mac's spew shit and see what sticks meta, and it's one that he replicates pretty well as mafia.

i'm confused as to why he thinks tutuu would deliberately attempt to fake mac's play style

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

What moved you?

i no longer felt comfortable with my vote on fingersplints, and the concerns that i had about marmot yesterday have not been alleviated in the slightest by his posting today.. i got the impression that he may have been trying to play up the dichotomy of tutuu/myself

I had mild suspicions of both of you, and then you starting butting heads, or at least tutuu starting calling you scum. That's when I happened to voice said suspicions.

But of course tutuu's back to townreading you (as of this post of yours), which is also my qualm with her.

this seems fine

@Marmot could you elaborate on those nanook and tutuu reads?

Tutuu's been an active presence in the thread, but changing her reads on a whim.

Nanook said he's not going to read JJJ until Day 3-4, but he's made multiple posts like [url[https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 91#p760791]this one[/url] and this one that look like mild attempts at shade.

fine too, i guess?

This game feels like Jay and I are mafia teammates. I wonder if anyone has made that observation yet.

I think a majority of scum rn is active

What's the point of this post if the following is your readlist?

Falcon-town
2. Tedextr-towny, lacking
4. Odd-fine but needs to make actual content
5. Sloonei-whatever
7. Strawhenge-town
8. JaggedJimmyJay-town
9. Staypositivefriend-town
10. KZA-probably town
11. MacDougall-probably town
13. Marmot-no thoughts
14. TSP-scummy
15. Long Con-no thoughts
16. Fingersplints-towny
17. Tutuu-playing different to her scum game from when I've seen her twice but in a way that is more scummy so idk what to think exactly
18. JPIC-whatever
19. Michelle-town
20. Alison-null
21. BoKnows-towny
22. Al Sama-scummy

this shows he's at least been paying attention to the game a bit

====

overall, his main focus seems to be shading / pushing the POWERFUL players in a POWERFUL playerlist on D0 - D1.

on the elite reads ranks, jay and marmot are probably not w/w

marmot seems like a villager

[tedxtr]

i'm bored

talk about kza macaroo

[tedxtr]

i'll also be taking my leave in about an hour, jsyk since i said i was doing isos

[tutuu]

Maybe i cleared jpic too easily idk. I agree that hes polarized between alignments. But that would be a mid to late game chop if i was the sole deciders of chops

[Alison]

Hey all. I went to bed, and woke up 16 hours later. No idea why. I'm going to be catching up now.

[tutuu]

sleepy alison cute

[Alison]

Would you like it to be? I can explain my point again, since you missed it.

My point is that Oddmerta is using the fact that I voted alongside someone that Odd suspects, as evidence that I'm bad.

I don't think that's genuine logic. Two scum CAN vote together, but is such a thing SO LIKELY that you form a suspicion on one player merely because that player voted alongside another? Of course not, that is not logical at all. Furthermore, Oddmerta fluffed it off and didn't confront or clarify that accusation, which looks bad.

I think it's pretty reasonable to say, eg. "X is scum and is voting Y. I think Y is the easy miselim scum is looking to push. Therefore everyone else who seems to be encouraging suspicion on Y should be scrutinized. Z was trying to get Y eliminated, so Z is >rand mafia".

[tutuu]

Would you like it to be? I can explain my point again, since you missed it.

My point is that Oddmerta is using the fact that I voted alongside someone that Odd suspects, as evidence that I'm bad.

I don't think that's genuine logic. Two scum CAN vote together, but is such a thing SO LIKELY that you form a suspicion on one player merely because that player voted alongside another? Of course not, that is not logical at all. Furthermore, Oddmerta fluffed it off and didn't confront or clarify that accusation, which looks bad.

I think it's pretty reasonable to say, eg. "X is scum and is voting Y. I think Y is the easy miselim scum is looking to push. Therefore everyone else who seems to be encouraging suspicion on Y should be scrutinized. Z was trying to get Y eliminated, so Z is >rand mafia".

If oddmerta townreads Y then i agree this thing would be reasonable and id side with odd and alison, if he doesnt townread Y i'd side with LC here

[Alison]

Let's play a game:

Is this low-hanging fruit, or is this a justifiable suspect?

AL_sama
BoKnows
fingersplints
JPIC
KZA
Long Con
Marmot
tedxtr

I extract these specific names because they strike me as applicable to the question -- either facing generic suspicions or otherwise pretty blank slates.

The vast majority of LHFs are justifiable suspects. LHFs aren't LHFs because someone stamped them with that title on their forehead at birth and they've been carrying it around ever since. They're LHFs because they've done something to make the rest of the thread treat them with suspicion - slanking, pushing nonsensical cases, having bad tone, voting three townies in a row, etc. In the occasions where you townread an LHF, it's because they've done something townie that overwhelms the rest of the reasons to scumread them. But most LHFs are going to be rightfully suspected.

In this particular case I don't think fingersplints should be treated as LHF, at least not to the same degree the other players on this list are. At the time this post was written (not having caught up yet), SPF hasn't dropped her big case on fingersplints yet, and I think most other people have neutral or mildly positive impressions of fingersplints. fingersplints aside, I think BK has towntold a couple of times, while the rest of the people on the list are justifiable suspects.

[Alison]

There’s also a list of people we’ve assigned to self-resolve which is longer than the number of people who can self-resolve fast enough but that’s a day 4 problem

Elaborate on this?

[Alison]

why big game over other people though?

Why do you think?

you want to test her accuracy? That's the only goal of the chop? Meh

No. I want the best deepwolf candidate in the POE resolved first before they get a foothold in the thread and start mowing down their adversaries and building the gamestate to favour themselves.

I believe the best deepwolf candidate in that POE is ted.

We’ll see about that after I bus my whole team

I encourage you to!

[Alison]

Let's play a game:

Is this low-hanging fruit, or is this a justifiable suspect?

AL_sama
BoKnows
fingersplints
JPIC
KZA
Long Con
Marmot
tedxtr

I extract these specific names because they strike me as applicable to the question -- either facing generic suspicions or otherwise pretty blank slates.

Down the line:
1
2
Neither it’s a trick question
1 for some reason
2
Actually feeling 2 but idk why
1
1

Why is Al_sama town?

[Alison]

Odd is now lock town for calling it a fake read btw or I guess w/w with JPIC but whatever

Just Fallout 2 things.

[Alison]

Teamwork is a virtue. Sometimes when someone you think is town is giving confident support to someone else, it's prudent to honor that at least for a time in the absence of truly powerful suspicion. I don't think any point raised against Oddmerta the last couple pages is a convincing one. I don't share Alison's confidence, but for the time being I am willing to respect her read. It's also Sloonei's read and tutuu's read and Mac's read and perhaps Nanook's read I can't remember.

Correct, and it's why I'm respecting Mac's read on tutuu. I think tutuu's posting has been kinda scummy, but Mac vouching for her holds weight in my mind, and I have other suspects. Insofar as tutuu hasn't been significantly more scummy than my other suspects, the one that's shielded by obvtown gets less priority than the one that all my townreads suspect.

[Alison]

Teamwork is a virtue. Sometimes when someone you think is town is giving confident support to someone else, it's prudent to honor that at least for a time in the absence of truly powerful suspicion. I don't think any point raised against Oddmerta the last couple pages is a convincing one. I don't share Alison's confidence, but for the time being I am willing to respect her read. It's also Sloonei's read and tutuu's read and Mac's read and perhaps Nanook's read I can't remember.

Yeah but do I strike you as a team player?

You strike me as someone who could be with but a simple choice. Maybe give it a try. I know it's not an easy thing to just look past your own read, but it can be super rewarding when it works out. There's a certain camaraderie in the game of Mafia that far too seldom is allowed to blossom. When it does blossom though, this game is such a fun and beautiful thing.

If you give it a try and it turns out later you had it right, then that's something you can rub in everyone's faces -- including mine. I know you'd enjoy that too!

>>>rand town post by JJJ unless he's exactly teamed with Oddmerta, and the odds of that are very very low.

[Esooa]

I'm sad

[Alison]

Need to take a shower and read Kant and get lunch and a covid test in the next 80 minutes wish me luck

This is how much utilitarians hate Kant.

[Alison]

@falcon45ca can I get your thoughts on the karst topography in Yunnan province of China?

In the future don't post weird shit like this unless you want people to think you're signalling or softing something.

[MacDougall]

I meant. Now convinced. He is mafia. Fucking typo.

What gives you this confidence?

the way he handled a certain someone I have a godread on

[Esooa]

Yea mafia is just a game u shouldnt take it so seriously and ppl who think theyre really good at it have opinions that are opposite of the truth, nobody is really good at mafia

I am. or will be

[MacDougall]

I'm sad

drink more

[MacDougall]

Yea mafia is just a game u shouldnt take it so seriously and ppl who think theyre really good at it have opinions that are opposite of the truth, nobody is really good at mafia

come on now lol

[Esooa]

I'm sad

drink more

idk

[Esooa]

I already did that lol

[Esooa]

sry if I was rude @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

[MacDougall]

yeah don't drink more, go to bed

[Esooa]

yeah don't drink more, go to bed

I don't want to sleep rn

[Alison]

Alright, I've caught up. That was a lot of info. I'll have a wall-of-text and a rainbow list in a moment.

Would someone mind awfully summing up what the cases are against the current vote leaders, Oddmerta and KZA? The former seemed to come out of the blue.

I'm excited.

I'll be extremely brief about summing up. Others can expand if they like. Some folks suspect Oddmerta for promoting unsubstantiated reads. Some folks suspect KZA for being self-centric in his approach to the game (focused on his accusers).

With all due respect to Oddmerta, I think Radiohead Mafia demonstrated that this is a behavior he is more than capable of engaging in as town.

[Esooa]

idk why but nanook just makes me annoyed even though I think he's a good person

[Alison]

Thanks JPIC. I’d be interested to hear more about Esooa, tedxtr, and TSP in particular.

Esooa - insistence on questioning people that townreads them makes me townread them unironically. Most mafia would take the free read then challenge it

ted - defended me in thread so it could be a bad read by me and he has pocketed me. However, i contrast his two games of his from my memory. In GoC, he tried to take charge and and wasn’t really suspected all game only for mech to out him. In MtG, he was heavily sussed all game and was a misyeet pretty early. I feel like it’s the same here

Tsp - gut read but the exchange with him and odd was peculiar a couple of pages which I didn’t really understand. His read on you which fingersplints brought up implied he had a bigger read on marmot than just null

Townie post.

[tutuu]

I'm sad

Awww whyyyy

Huggie eso

[Esooa]

I'm sad

Awww whyyyy

Huggie eso

cause I'm drunk and I played league with someone and I was really emo and I acted bad

[tutuu]

@falcon45ca can I get your thoughts on the karst topography in Yunnan province of China?

In the future don't post weird shit like this unless you want people to think you're signalling or softing something.

Uh what lol he is a history major and he was studying for his history exam

[Alison]

General notes and observations:

Spoiler: show

• I don't like @KZA saying tutuu is fake as justification for voting for her. Feels like a weak case.

• TSP claiming that JJJ is scum, then immediately giving a tepid 'well maybe not idk' response when challenged. If @TonyStarkPrime is town, I see it as a failed provocation to get JJJ to defend himself. If TSP is scum, I see it as a failed cast of a line to see if anyone would help start a bandwagon. Wild speculation here, on my part, but this moment stands out to me.

• @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME saying he agrees because JJJ won't townread him is reminiscent of overconfident scum.

• I don't know @KZA, but this reaction to TSP's read reads as earnest.

• The @Marmot's posts here and the one two posts after it feel weird. I'm not volume-shaming at all, but the linked post reads like a totally needless justification for not engaging much with D1. The latter post, asking about multiball, feels the weirdest. After 20 pages of discussion where there are plenty of cases already gaining traction, including JJJ voting for him as of then, why go back into setup speculation?

• @BoKnows has an interesting waffling moment starting here, with a 'good vibes read' on the Marmot Later, @Alison points out an exchange between the Marmot and KZA as 'insipid and wolfy', and four minutes later BoKnows says, he no longer has good vibes from Marmot and it was just based on his pfp anyway. Scum distancing himself from a scummate?

• I for sure perked my eyebrow at @tedxtr's Oddmerta vote, but I really didn't like the almost immediate and admitted bandwagoning by @Esooa. She went from gut town-lean to gut scum-lean in an instant. Esooa is sticking to this vote, which makes me even more suspicious.

Reads on vote leaders:

• @Oddmerta is for sure casting scumreads without much backup, if any at all. I'm not sure which JPIC post he says he didn't like, nor am I sure that this post in question is his reason for voting JPIC. That said, I learned early on in my mafia days that lack of elaboration ≠ necessarily being anti-town. I'm interested in what Oddmerta has to say, but I'm not convinced of the scumreads on him yet.

• @KZA is also a case I can understand, but it's another that I don't really buy. I myself have been very self-defensive in past games as a power-roled town, because I saw myself as valuable. I still don't like KZA's take/vote on tutuu, but everything else reads as pretty earnest.

Current (mostly gut) reads (each tier is roughly in order, reasons for the scum-leans are in the notes/observations above)
Alison
JaggedJimmyJay
falcon
MacDougall
Sloonei
tutuu
SPF
Oddmerta
Michelle
fingersplints
Dom
TSP
tedxtr
Long Con
nanook
JPIC
KZA
Esooa
Marmot
BoKnows

Off Topic

Hold the fuck up. There's a 'siren' button. Did...did I inspire this? If you say yes, I will cry.

I am clearing Strawhenge for this.

[Alison]

I was already townreading him but this is a full clear never touch slot now.

[Esooa]

why Alison

[Esooa]

Alison how're u feeling about the game in general? what do u think about bigger games with more pr's

also is ur pr crazy?

[tutuu]

Yea mafia is just a game u shouldnt take it so seriously and ppl who think theyre really good at it have opinions that are opposite of the truth, nobody is really good at mafia

come on now lol

Nobody has that much >rand accurate reads d00d, the only outcome of people thinking theyre good at the game is games ending up in toxicity / frustrations

It feels good to think ur good at the game and everyone has great games but nobody is consistently good at the game

[Esooa]

is ur pr bastard

[tutuu]

I'm sad

Awww whyyyy

Huggie eso

cause I'm drunk and I played league with someone and I was really emo and I acted bad

Awwww huggggg its okayyyyyy shhhhh shhhh

[Alison]

[VOTE: fingersplints
] aubergine

this is a wolf. i will explain tomorrow. goodnight!

spf is right coz shes town and smart or spf is scum trying to widen the poe coz things arent looking good for her team

What about SPF being town and wrong?