PSY 2310 - Cognitive Psychology [END]

[Tangrowth]

I don’t want to insert myself too much into the discussion, but I do think one of my strengths as a player is to better the thread environment and... that felt more important to me than trying to pressure myself to feel like I have to have all the answers.

[Tangrowth]

I also just feel like... lots of wires seemed crossed to me. Asking questions of people in addition to giving me an “in” through to trying to see the game through another person’s perspective is another way to disarm volatility and get someone to step back and focus on something else.

[Tangrowth]

Or, really, I just idolize Sloonei. Who doesn’t?

[staypositivefriend]

her primary concern wasn't to ~blend in~ or spew out a bunch of takes

can you elaborate on this take? I agree with the second half but strongly disagree with the first half.

when i think of a wolf that is trying to "blend in" with a thread, i think of someone that's trying to match the vibe or the overall atmosphere of the thread they're in. a wolf in RVS will often be performatively casual/jokey because it's what they perceive as "normal" behavior. a wolf right outside of RVS will often force themselves to take stances or out reads because it's what they feel they "should" do. there are a lot of talented wolves that win games by mirroring other people and doing all the "right" things at the "right" moments

i think it's fair to say that tangy's posts up until the ones at the top of page 4 were "blending in" (i forgot she made any posts before that point TBQH), so that lends credibility to your point and diminishes mine a little bit

but i was specifically thinking about tangy's string of posts at the top of page 4 - she entered a thread that was in the middle of some pretty intense/divisive conversation, and there were a lot of reads/stances being thrown out. tangy's posts around that time were extremely casual and extremely relaxed - she expressed happiness at being in the game, she asked a few softball questions about my meta (among other things), but her commentary of the game itself was minimal and she seemed disinterested in giving her takes on the stuff that was going on, barring her read on nutella. her posts were casual in nature, but they were distinct from the vibe in the rest of the thread that is fairly unusual for wolves who are trying to dip their toes into the thread

kinda thinking that i'm clearing tangy too easily after writing this out tbh, but i do think that she's rand town so far

[Tangrowth]

Oh hey Dizzy is in this game too, omg did we finally roll the same alignment.

[outed wolf]

few things:

1) think nutellas knee jerk reaction (and it is a knee jerk imo - seems obv and the justification locks it in) to a tangrowth push is probably the villageriest thing she has going for her. spf is obv right on nutellas posts earlier (just wanted to note this for posterity). i understand the emotion reads but i feel they are kinda lame and assume that nutella cant get annoyed as a wolf.

2) gavial votes, my understanding of their play means they (votes) seem fine but obv see how it plays out

3) dont think the tangrowth push by arete is wolfy and i understand how someone could get there, i entertained a brief push there earlier but i believe it is more likely to be tangrowth getting into ww after being out for a bit regardless of alignmnet (though i dont fault anyone for not buyin that)

4) go rams

5) if that alison post is real and not just haha faking xd its bizarre. like just straight up you cannot believe that as a villager

[outed wolf]

that said ive seen villas say some weird weird shit so im not gonna jumo down her throat completely aorn

[Tangrowth]

few things:

1) think nutellas knee jerk reaction (and it is a knee jerk imo - seems obv and the justification locks it in) to a tangrowth push is probably the villageriest thing she has going for her. spf is obv right on nutellas posts earlier (just wanted to note this for posterity). i understand the emotion reads but i feel they are kinda lame and assume that nutella cant get annoyed as a wolf.

2) gavial votes, my understanding of their play means they (votes) seem fine but obv see how it plays out

3) dont think the tangrowth push by arete is wolfy and i understand how someone could get there, i entertained a brief push there earlier but i believe it is more likely to be tangrowth getting into ww after being out for a bit regardless of alignmnet (though i dont fault anyone for not buyin that)

4) go rams

5) if that alison post is real and not just haha faking xd its bizarre. like just straight up you cannot believe that as a villager

I wouldn’t say this is significantly due to being out of practice, but maybe it could be more than I realize. I feel like I took a similar approach in other games coming off of higher periods of activity, like... asking more questions of people at the beginning of a Champs game or something. But it’s sort of hard to remember.

[Hally]

What’s villagery about that Arete post, Hally?

i think the first paragraph re: you responding to arete and apologizing to them as though you had TMI that they’re a villager is a villagery thing for arete to think

it’s not unfakeable and i have no idea what their wolf range is, but it struck me as genuine

[outed wolf]

few things:

1) think nutellas knee jerk reaction (and it is a knee jerk imo - seems obv and the justification locks it in) to a tangrowth push is probably the villageriest thing she has going for her. spf is obv right on nutellas posts earlier (just wanted to note this for posterity). i understand the emotion reads but i feel they are kinda lame and assume that nutella cant get annoyed as a wolf.

2) gavial votes, my understanding of their play means they (votes) seem fine but obv see how it plays out

3) dont think the tangrowth push by arete is wolfy and i understand how someone could get there, i entertained a brief push there earlier but i believe it is more likely to be tangrowth getting into ww after being out for a bit regardless of alignmnet (though i dont fault anyone for not buyin that)

4) go rams

5) if that alison post is real and not just haha faking xd its bizarre. like just straight up you cannot believe that as a villager

I wouldn’t say this is significantly due to being out of practice, but maybe it could be more than I realize. I feel like I took a similar approach in other games coming off of higher periods of activity, like... asking more questions of people at the beginning of a Champs game or something. But it’s sort of hard to remember.

there is some game i spectated with you in where you were doing a similar thing i think, which is why i lean towards it being nai

[Tangrowth]

What’s villagery about that Arete post, Hally?

i think the first paragraph re: you responding to arete and apologizing to them as though you had TMI that they’re a villager is a villagery thing for arete to think

it’s not unfakeable and i have no idea what their wolf range is, but it struck me as genuine

Thank you!

(More generally, to you or anyone) in the future thank you for answering any of my questions, I may not get around to expressing it due to the post cap.

As for the Alison thought, I don’t find it an unbelievable thing for Alison to genuinely think. She sometimes has some pretty strongly delivered takes that struck me as... notable (for lack of a better term) in a similar way.

[nutella]

What’s villagery about that Arete post, Hally?

i think the first paragraph re: you responding to arete and apologizing to them as though you had TMI that they’re a villager is a villagery thing for arete to think

it’s not unfakeable and i have no idea what their wolf range is, but it struck me as genuine

i actually disagree with this, i think it's very fakeable to accuse tmi and while sure i'm confbiasing a bit it didn't make me feel any better about them

also they completely ignored my elaboration on why i thought their push might come from a wolf

i did agree with their view on your page one stuff though. kinda feels like i can't really suspect both of you lol

visor's thoughts are good imo. i didn't find alison's view of the push on me weird at the time from my own biased perspective, but a few hours removed from it visor may have a point that it seemed overblown for this early, and alison could have been attempting to pocket me a bit there. but it also could have been one of her trademark overstated confidence things to generate reactions/discussion. shrug, i have basically no read on her.


i remember a couple people saying they townread c4, why's that? i didn't like his reaction to the early votes on hally etc and otherwise don't remember anything noteworthy from him. the way he cursorily tossed arete a townread even kinda reminded me of stuff he did as a wolf in vienna, but it's something he does as town too i'm pretty sure


gavial is kinda whatever, we could vote him out d1 for any reason tbh, he could be a wolf but also feels like an "easy" option



aight, i'm going quiet for at least 12 hours or so (got my second pfizer jabbie a few hours ago so it's kind of a mystery how much energy i'll have to play tomorrow)

here's roughly where some early impressions are

town
amy
kza
dya
tangy

slight lean town
spf
zack
visor

null
alison
gavial
---
dizzy
marl
vulgard

slight lean wolf
arete
c4
hally
sunbae

[sunbae]

I always find it weird when I vote for someone early, a few others do as well, and then during all the back and forth the actual reason I voted for them never gets mentioned by anyone else. So now I start wondering if I'm just overthinking it or what.

Voted Nutella because of the "Sunbae's entrance meh, others are ok" into voting not-me 30 posts into the game sequence. The way that it came after Amy voted me made it feel like a little nudging along one incorrect thread suspicion and then starting another one. Feel like if you really thought everyone else was ok you would have either voted me or just chilled out without a vote until more things happened (since, you know, it was presented as a seriousish vote and not just normal early game tomfoolery).

From my quick skim since then I see some posts mildly scolding dya for the style of posting in a post cap game, ( Dya's alignment is a whole different topic I'll get to later), brushing off votes as "the MU elite bros clique" (which is an entirely different kettle of fish as I think it's both an unfair representation of my approach in general - someone that tries to interact and work stuff out with everyone - and in this particular game - I'm basically being Amy's little PogChamp so far so idk why I'm being lumped into some group with Bronana and Outed Wolf), some shade on me for not being villagery (which resulting in no actual push ties into my initial reason for voting you in the first place), and giving "i dont think thats a real read" reads to cases.

All in all, not super great. I've tried to approach things from a few different perspectives:

- Nutella is a wolf who is just kinda flailing around now. Game's hard (wolfing this lineup would be hard no matter what), got off on the wrong foot, didn't know who to push early, and is trying to recover.
- Nutella is a villager who just kinda came outta the gates hard and is biting back to pressure while finding new targets to wolf read.

My largest concern with vNutella worlds is that why is there so much bite at other people but not to me either initially nor in those thin shade post about me/outedwolf. For having the initial wolf read be due to the kid gloves with finding me meh, seeing them continue one while others got some bite towards them makes me dig in more.

With that said I'm also going to factor in the "I shouldn't be playing mafia" post because I'm a sucker for those. And if it makes the game more enjoyable to not be behind the 8 ball for a while then it's well worth it. Games long, I can spend my time elsewhere for a bit.

Im annoyed at myself for this wall of text 6 hours into day 1 but I thought it would be helpful to elaborate on all this stuff both for Nutella and for myself.

[sunbae]

On an entirely different note: I learned about the Sleeping Beauty problem tonight and that ones really throwing me for a loop so maybe others will find it enjoyable too

ps: its still 1/2. right. right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Beauty_problem

[Arete]

also they completely ignored my elaboration on why i thought their push might come from a wolf

I didn't ignore it

it's just that your entire argument about my push on Tangy is

which, while that can be a valid thing to wolfread people on, is very much the kind of thing i would latch onto as a wolf to make a villager look bad

which is basically saying 'it could be a real read but some people might also do it as a wolf to shade a villager' which... is true? I don't think it's such a brilliant and villagery case that I could never do it as a wolf? it's just that in fact ... I am a villager wolfreading her for it ... which is literally a possibility you acknowledge and say is valid in your post...

I'm sure this is an incredibly helpful and enlightening response.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It occurs to me that a role blocked night phase post doesn't entirely function given certain timing constraints. As a correction, note then that only the following night phase prizes can be hindered by a role block or a jailing. They can only be blocked on the same night during which they are activated, which in the case of the behind-the-scenes-chat is the night prior to the prize actually resolving.

- 1-shot voyeur (learn what ability target player was targeted with if any).**
- 1 night phase of behind the scenes chat with target of choice**

Please don't interact with this post. If there are questions or if anyone's confused, please contact me privately. Thanks gang.

[outed wolf]

yo jim

talk to me about dyas alignment

[sunbae]

Please forgive me, I am struggling to navigate the site in a way I'm used to doing so it's taking me a bit longer to catch up in full/iso a few interesting slots. I'll get it, just might take me a bit longer.

Tangy's catchup seemed fine. The towniest thing for me was the Arette interaction. "I'm not trying to appease you I just understand where your coming from" just felt good to me as I read it. I don't think the diffusion of tensions was alignment indicative though, just fyi SPF. That's just the way Tangy rolls.

I also thought Arette pulling out the case on Tangy and the subsequent defense of it to Nutella came off well. I don't agree with the conclusion but I follow the thought process on where it came from and the "Why are you apologizing to me" question struck me as a town response.

I haven't played with Alison before I don't think (at least not that that name? Sorry if wrong) but I'm on board with their posting. I don't necessarily agree with the idea that people will be trying to jam through a mischop of someone hard to mischop this early, but I was a big fan of seeing that comment followed up on and thought through to the conclusion that it was. It wasn't just "wolves trying to chop villa" but instead followed up by looking at the wagon, how those people interacted with each other, and coming to the conclusion that one looked like they were trying to pocket the other was the wolf there. It just seems like a step further than most throwaway wolf comments get on things like that.

I mention these three specifically and by themselves because I have very little experience - if any at all - with them and I'd like if those of you more knowledgeable can course correct me if required. I think I'll do a fairly good job of getting there on the alignments of a good chunk of the game that I'm familiar with, but worry a bit about the blind spots I could run into from those I'm not.

[sunbae]

yo jim

talk to me about dyas alignment

Dya is posting like she's disheartened to have randed wolf in a game like this yet again but gonna push through it anyways.

I'm gonna give space there because I could see myself just not really vibing with the thread flow during the "im not really available nor paying attention but ima throw out some posts for fun" phase I was in during my first stint and the "somewhat tense" thread state during my catchup. Hoping tomorrow when we have time together in the thread I can change my mind there.

[sunbae]

I also think Bronana's posts could potentially just be pocketing me specifically for fun but that's more of a fear/self-centered read and I'd hate to throw away a fun villa vibe with him out of fear

[outed wolf]

yo jim

talk to me about dyas alignment

Dya is posting like she's disheartened to have randed wolf in a game like this yet again but gonna push through it anyways.

I'm gonna give space there because I could see myself just not really vibing with the thread flow during the "im not really available nor paying attention but ima throw out some posts for fun" phase I was in during my first stint and the "somewhat tense" thread state during my catchup. Hoping tomorrow when we have time together in the thread I can change my mind there.

yeah, got big org game feels there.

this the v/v repeat eh?

[sunbae]

I'm hoping you're a wolf so I didn't get snapped off immediately yet again lol. Your ability to soul read me lately is mildly disappointing

What did it for you this time?

[sunbae]

her primary concern wasn't to ~blend in~ or spew out a bunch of takes

can you elaborate on this take? I agree with the second half but strongly disagree with the first half.

when i think of a wolf that is trying to "blend in" with a thread, i think of someone that's trying to match the vibe or the overall atmosphere of the thread they're in. a wolf in RVS will often be performatively casual/jokey because it's what they perceive as "normal" behavior. a wolf right outside of RVS will often force themselves to take stances or out reads because it's what they feel they "should" do. there are a lot of talented wolves that win games by mirroring other people and doing all the "right" things at the "right" moments

i think it's fair to say that tangy's posts up until the ones at the top of page 4 were "blending in" (i forgot she made any posts before that point TBQH), so that lends credibility to your point and diminishes mine a little bit

but i was specifically thinking about tangy's string of posts at the top of page 4 - she entered a thread that was in the middle of some pretty intense/divisive conversation, and there were a lot of reads/stances being thrown out. tangy's posts around that time were extremely casual and extremely relaxed - she expressed happiness at being in the game, she asked a few softball questions about my meta (among other things), but her commentary of the game itself was minimal and she seemed disinterested in giving her takes on the stuff that was going on, barring her read on nutella. her posts were casual in nature, but they were distinct from the vibe in the rest of the thread that is fairly unusual for wolves who are trying to dip their toes into the thread

kinda thinking that i'm clearing tangy too easily after writing this out tbh, but i do think that she's rand town so far

[VOTE: staypositivefriend] aubergine

[outed wolf]

talk to me about spf

re sould read: just noting the similarities to our approach on dya

"Hoping tomorrow when we have time together in the thread I can change my mind there."

though stuff like this is p villagery - its hoping dya isnt a wolf, not saying 'we will see what dya says tomorrow' (which is still a reasonable statement to make and my plan anyways

[Arete]

Your ability to soul read me lately is mildly disappointing

I think this is a mildly villagery point of view, I think most wolves would just take a townread rather than complaining about being easy-to-read

[sunbae]

I think nutella is town and the wolves are trying to shove through a cheap misexe on someone who is normally difficult to misexe.

This points towards mafia on her wagon, which is to say sunbae/bronana/outed wolf. Probably bronana for overexplaining his vote and trying to pocket the other two by saying they're the pillars of the town.

i don’t really understand this read. why are you assuming that nutella is getting pushed by wolves as opposed to villagers who are wrong and/or don’t know her well? what specifically about the pushes is wolfy? i feel like i can see where zack and spf are coming from even though i disagree

also just for the record I moved my vote off Hally but I still think their opener sucked a lot

why?

—————

i had similar thoughts to arete as i was reading tangy’s catchup but decided to withhold judgment and observe her more. not sure where i’m at on her atm. @staypositivefriend why did you like tangy’s posts?

tangygrowth burst into a relatively tense thread and immediately became a beacon of positive energy. her primary concern wasn't to ~blend in~ or spew out a bunch of takes, but rather, to change the atmosphere of the thread and to make sure that everyone was still having fun. even as she was doing that, she zero'd in on nutella for a little while and made a point of outing a read on her (which i found villagery, or at least indicative of tangy trying to gradually get more comfortable with the game by focusing on someone that she already knows)

the strong tone paired with the lack of posts that felt focused on an agenda made me think that she was most likely just a villager. typical caveat that this read will change if tangy's trajectory doesn't go where i anticipate it will go

Blah, was trying to quote two posts sorry.

That post I quoted and this one coming back to back (this one first, previously quoted 2nd) is wolfy imo. Here you have a few reasons to villa read tangy (positive energy, agenda being the atmosphere of the thread, still making a read while doing so, strong tone, lack of wolfy agenda makes me think shes just a villager) and then it gets backpedaled into a "clearing too lightly but still rand town" hedge simply because Arete's "blending in" comments were referencing the first quick stint instead of the main one? I think nothing Arete said changes a thing from SPF's main points and the backpedal reads to me like someone not really wanting to throw down over something like this early and just disengaging.

[outed wolf]

though you're a crafty bugger and youd make that post to ease any susp on you (hell i made a post like that to rask in a recent game - classic wolf toolbox stuff), so dont think im goin easy on you

I haven't played with Alison before I don't think (at least not that that name? Sorry if wrong) but I'm on board with their posting. I don't necessarily agree with the idea that people will be trying to jam through a mischop of someone hard to mischop this early, but I was a big fan of seeing that comment followed up on and thought through to the conclusion that it was. It wasn't just "wolves trying to chop villa" but instead followed up by looking at the wagon, how those people interacted with each other, and coming to the conclusion that one looked like they were trying to pocket the other was the wolf there. It just seems like a step further than most throwaway wolf comments get on things like that.

hmm, dunno how i feel on this one. i dont feel like alison had enough around the read for you to feel confident about it. i can def understand this read is way too early and makes v little sense so prob v.

but there wasnt much substance to it and it feel weird to me to have that kind of read so early (and when it seems (also to me) so obv not true?)

[outed wolf]

Your ability to soul read me lately is mildly disappointing

I think this is a mildly villagery point of view, I think most wolves would just take a townread rather than complaining about being easy-to-read

eh ive definitely played it up (ill did it to ladd in a mash not so long ago)
maybe meh or okay or even good wolves wont do it, but great wolves will know playing it up can get results (er i think this can be construed as me calling myself great, i am def not, just a purveyor of sneaky tactics)

[outed wolf]

"clearing too lightly but still rand town"

i can see this one

perhaps she thought she came on too strongly on the read and didnt want to clear someone who didnt have to be cleared (at least so early)

[sunbae]

I don't have a ton of confidence on it but its where I'm at right now and wanted to move away from nutella for a bit so shrug
ima go to bed tho, its 2 am

[staypositivefriend]

I think nutella is town and the wolves are trying to shove through a cheap misexe on someone who is normally difficult to misexe.

This points towards mafia on her wagon, which is to say sunbae/bronana/outed wolf. Probably bronana for overexplaining his vote and trying to pocket the other two by saying they're the pillars of the town.

i don’t really understand this read. why are you assuming that nutella is getting pushed by wolves as opposed to villagers who are wrong and/or don’t know her well? what specifically about the pushes is wolfy? i feel like i can see where zack and spf are coming from even though i disagree

also just for the record I moved my vote off Hally but I still think their opener sucked a lot

why?

—————

i had similar thoughts to arete as i was reading tangy’s catchup but decided to withhold judgment and observe her more. not sure where i’m at on her atm. @staypositivefriend why did you like tangy’s posts?

tangygrowth burst into a relatively tense thread and immediately became a beacon of positive energy. her primary concern wasn't to ~blend in~ or spew out a bunch of takes, but rather, to change the atmosphere of the thread and to make sure that everyone was still having fun. even as she was doing that, she zero'd in on nutella for a little while and made a point of outing a read on her (which i found villagery, or at least indicative of tangy trying to gradually get more comfortable with the game by focusing on someone that she already knows)

the strong tone paired with the lack of posts that felt focused on an agenda made me think that she was most likely just a villager. typical caveat that this read will change if tangy's trajectory doesn't go where i anticipate it will go

Blah, was trying to quote two posts sorry.

That post I quoted and this one coming back to back (this one first, previously quoted 2nd) is wolfy imo. Here you have a few reasons to villa read tangy (positive energy, agenda being the atmosphere of the thread, still making a read while doing so, strong tone, lack of wolfy agenda makes me think shes just a villager) and then it gets backpedaled into a "clearing too lightly but still rand town" hedge simply because Arete's "blending in" comments were referencing the first quick stint instead of the main one? I think nothing Arete said changes a thing from SPF's main points and the backpedal reads to me like someone not really wanting to throw down over something like this early and just disengaging.

my progression of my read on tangy was like:

1. i get "vague good feelings" about tangy and stop just short of townreading them (https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 15#p797015)

2. i talk myself into townreading tangy a bit more confidently after hally prompts me to explain my good feelings about her and i put a little more thought into the read (https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 32#p797132)

3. after seeing hally point out that tangy has a reputation for being a good wolf, and after skimming through tangy's ISO again and realizing that she made several filler/"blend in with the game"-esque posts before the string of posts from her that i really liked, i decide that i'm townreading her a little bit too easily (https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 49#p797149)

part of my townread on tangy was predicated on the idea that she entered the game without the intention to blend in, and realizing that she did in fact attempt to blend in (regardless of her alignment) at the very beginning of the game made my read a little less strong

(i told myself i was done posting for the night but i made an exception for this :P)

[sunbae]

Spf, writing a final post just to say I've seen your response but nothing is registering in my brain at the moment. Sorry. I'll look it over tomorrow when I get up, promise

[sunbae]

The worst part of playing games like this is you don't really want to vote for anyone cause youd feel too bad for being wrong

[nutella]

ok i lied one more post before i sleepze

I always find it weird when I vote for someone early, a few others do as well, and then during all the back and forth the actual reason I voted for them never gets mentioned by anyone else. So now I start wondering if I'm just overthinking it or what.

Voted Nutella because of the "Sunbae's entrance meh, others are ok" into voting not-me 30 posts into the game sequence. The way that it came after Amy voted me made it feel like a little nudging along one incorrect thread suspicion and then starting another one. Feel like if you really thought everyone else was ok you would have either voted me or just chilled out without a vote until more things happened (since, you know, it was presented as a seriousish vote and not just normal early game tomfoolery).

From my quick skim since then I see some posts mildly scolding dya for the style of posting in a post cap game, ( Dya's alignment is a whole different topic I'll get to later), brushing off votes as "the MU elite bros clique" (which is an entirely different kettle of fish as I think it's both an unfair representation of my approach in general - someone that tries to interact and work stuff out with everyone - and in this particular game - I'm basically being Amy's little PogChamp so far so idk why I'm being lumped into some group with Bronana and Outed Wolf), some shade on me for not being villagery (which resulting in no actual push ties into my initial reason for voting you in the first place), and giving "i dont think thats a real read" reads to cases.

All in all, not super great. I've tried to approach things from a few different perspectives:

- Nutella is a wolf who is just kinda flailing around now. Game's hard (wolfing this lineup would be hard no matter what), got off on the wrong foot, didn't know who to push early, and is trying to recover.
- Nutella is a villager who just kinda came outta the gates hard and is biting back to pressure while finding new targets to wolf read.

My largest concern with vNutella worlds is that why is there so much bite at other people but not to me either initially nor in those thin shade post about me/outedwolf. For having the initial wolf read be due to the kid gloves with finding me meh, seeing them continue one while others got some bite towards them makes me dig in more.

With that said I'm also going to factor in the "I shouldn't be playing mafia" post because I'm a sucker for those. And if it makes the game more enjoyable to not be behind the 8 ball for a while then it's well worth it. Games long, I can spend my time elsewhere for a bit.

Im annoyed at myself for this wall of text 6 hours into day 1 but I thought it would be helpful to elaborate on all this stuff both for Nutella and for myself.

thanks for sharing this thought process, it's definitely more developed than it came across at the time of your vote. i didn't push hard on you because i didn't feel strongly about anything from you, simple as that. i didnt vibe with your entrance as much as the others and basically noted you as a slot to keep an eye on in particular, now that you're producing more in depth content hopefully i can get to a read (though i don't think ive ever actually played a normal game/non-mash with you? i *very* loosely specced rocks fall and thats about it tbh so i dont really have much in the way of expectations of your non-mash style)

but yeah, i reacted more harshly to some stuff earlier while not really digging into you more -- you didnt really have many posts to dig into anyway, and neither did visor at the time which is why my issue was basically "nothing villagery in their isos" for both of you, and you've since both produced more readable content

why am i writing so many words i sound like spf lol

also they completely ignored my elaboration on why i thought their push might come from a wolf

I didn't ignore it

it's just that your entire argument about my push on Tangy is

which, while that can be a valid thing to wolfread people on, is very much the kind of thing i would latch onto as a wolf to make a villager look bad

which is basically saying 'it could be a real read but some people might also do it as a wolf to shade a villager' which... is true? I don't think it's such a brilliant and villagery case that I could never do it as a wolf? it's just that in fact ... I am a villager wolfreading her for it ... which is literally a possibility you acknowledge and say is valid in your post...

I'm sure this is an incredibly helpful and enlightening response.

yeah i mean... kinda true, i can't really justify my gut feeling that it's somehow *more* likely to come from a wolf, but it's a feeling i have nonetheless. i think it's combined with the fact that nothing previous in your iso had done much for me, you seemed kinda detached from the thread and then come in plopping a big wall case on a name that hadn't been talked about yet, for reasons that could potentially gain you cred for being original

yo jim

talk to me about dyas alignment

Dya is posting like she's disheartened to have randed wolf in a game like this yet again but gonna push through it anyways.

I'm gonna give space there because I could see myself just not really vibing with the thread flow during the "im not really available nor paying attention but ima throw out some posts for fun" phase I was in during my first stint and the "somewhat tense" thread state during my catchup. Hoping tomorrow when we have time together in the thread I can change my mind there.

i feel this a lot actually and right after posting my previous list i wished i'd moved them down a tier. bc i did have that feeling right off the bat that they had a bit of a hard time getting comfortable in thread, and i may have overcompensated in deciding to townread them instead (and also was prob biased by them defending me which in reality could be a pocket attempt as i brought up regarding alison as well)

idk, i have improved some in my ability to read dya in recent months i think, need more data but the fact that you and visor both see it this way/comparing to another game is pushing me away from townreading them at least

[outed wolf]

its def early to be super confident (and dya is capable of being flat as v too for a number of reasons) just worrying signs for now

"you seemed kinda detached from the thread and then come in plopping a big wall case on a name that hadn't been talked about yet, for reasons that could potentially gain you cred for being original"

you seem to finding reasons why its wolfy to justify afterwards - why cant a villager make a post about someone not talked about yet?

a lot of your responses in this game so far have had similar problems with them - you've immediately jumped to some kind of conclusion super hard

[nutella]

its def early to be super confident (and dya is capable of being flat as v too for a number of reasons) just worrying signs for now

"you seemed kinda detached from the thread and then come in plopping a big wall case on a name that hadn't been talked about yet, for reasons that could potentially gain you cred for being original"

you seem to finding reasons why its wolfy to justify afterwards - why cant a villager make a post about someone not talked about yet?

a lot of your responses in this game so far have had similar problems with them - you've immediately jumped to some kind of conclusion super hard

thats kinda just how i operate tbh, i toss out what my gut reaction to something is and i tend to kinda confbias it a little while also taking other ppls takes into account (i get called out a lot for being a weathervane/just sort of agreeing with whatever the last person to post said lol) but in this case i do think these are actually the reasons i had the gut reaction in the first place and it just took me a bit to articulate them

[Amy]

sunbae v

[outed wolf]

sunbae v

walk me through it

you tried to push me away from v reading him in the org game, whats the change here?

[Amy]

sunbae v

walk me through it

you tried to push me away from v reading him in the org game, whats the change here?

I was pretty disengaged from the org game. I'm pretty engaged with this one. I assume both of these things are pretty self-evident.

In the org game I kinda just skimmed the general shape of Sunbae's posts, said "yeah none of this looks particularly clearing", and was surprised when other people disagreed with me. A lot of this was borne from me knowing generally that Sunbae is a great wolf but not necessarily knowing what that actually LOOKS like (which, ftr, is still true lol), so a disengaged Amy was inevitably gonna be cautious about her read there. Other people being less so spooked me.

This game I'm actively reading and following along and paying attention, which... is probably an improvement lmao. I think the way Sunbae led off today with his "lemme just mason Amy" shenanigans felt super pure and I think him replying to you calling him v by specifically saying "I'm annoyed that you can soulread me so well" is a very... it's not what a wolf's first thought would be in that situation, I don't think.

+ I like his big wallpost re-entrance. I haven't really nitpicked it super hard, but on first impression it feels like the wallpost of someone who was trying to take it easy but wound up with too many thoughts, rather than someone forcing thoughts to look towny or whatever

[Amy]

that was a lot of words to say "good vibes" and "i played like ass in the org game" tbh

but i do feel good about making the read

[bronana]

[VOTE: arete] aubergine

sponge me mu elite bro squad

hi

It was a somewhat random vote, iirc at the time you had a couple ~reasonable-ish posts that were hardly rocking the boat and I had the impression you were staying under the radar a bit. I'm mildly surprised you are the only person who didn't completely ignore my vote, actually.

I agree with you that tan has been underwhelming so far, I was thinking about it before I started to catch up on the thread and saw your case. Never seen her wolf before, but in the few games we've been v/v I remember finding each other fairly quickly and easily. I don't really understand spf's given reasons for townreading tan, seemed like a stretch.

I'm pretty sure hally's response to nutella that you didn't like is not alignment-indicative for them.

----

Visor's (outed wolf) posts seem decent, I agree with a lot of the stuff he said and a good amount of it were things I was already thinking about. I broadly agree with him and Sunbae about dya.

Oh and sunbae, I'd pocket you as either alignment you silly goose. I don't see what you're seeing wrt alison, though; I have them as null.

----

gavial, kza, and to a lesser extent c4's posts made very little impact on me. I find the amount of townreads on c4 odd for what he has posted.

[outed wolf]

is that THE bronana from the syndicate?

i hear hes really cool

[Marluxion]

[VOTE: outed wolf] aubergine

[Vulgard]

SPF hasn't selfvoted yet. Sus.

Amy's town. Early comfort in the thread, and the read on Zack has a level of nuance I wouldn't expect from a wolf on page 1. It doesn't look like Amy's forcing herself to make a nuanced read for townpoints. It has a natural buildup/progression.

Hally calling it a push on Zack and V-leaning Amy for it is interesting. I didn't see it as a push, per se, just an early scumread. Fmpov she's overestimating the value of Amy's post.

Some part of my brain tells me Hally is conscious about her teammate, Zack, getting scumread. Would explain why she's placating Amy in that world; but I dislike preflips, so. Might come back to it later.

I tonally like outed wolf's response to Hally's post there. SPF townreads it, though, and later calls c4e town based on them voting her.

Imagine I'm voting spf for the first time

town

This mean you know why?

not really - i just see that you're being coy about your reasoning for finding me suspicious and keeping your cards close to your chest, which is the direct inverse of how you approached the early game as a wolf in CoV, which makes me think that youre probably just playing from a villager mindset

(you also agreed with me about arete's vote being vaguely towny even though i did not put that thought into the thread and decided to keep it to myself)

This is too far out there. Her extrapolating so much from that post looks like TMI. Saying SPF is sus for not selfvoting was a meme, but her being quick to townread both c4e and Hally is wolfy. Neither deserves early townreads for their posting. Especially not Hally, who SPF has experience with as both alignments.

Zack notices that about SPF, but his take is "wolf writes a post they think sounds good," not "wolf TMIng c4e/Hally (?)." Still like the fact he chose to point that out, though he isn't committing. V lean.

SPF calling nutella nervous also feels like a conclusion drawn too early. It being instantly sheeped is another thing.

I like the spark in nutella's response to SPF wolfreading her. No defensiveness, a lot of snark, plus an unrelated wolfread showing she's solving. Her wolfread isn't predicated on the people voting/pushing her, either. SPF's treatment of nutella is another story. Below is another post that I read a few times and keep getting the impression SPF knows nutella's town. Mostly about the language she uses. Relevant parts bolded.

no, you are still misconstruing literally everything i said and everything i tried to explain in the very response you are quoting

stop twisting my words

you said my post was suspicious because of "nervous energy" or something and i've explained that that is because of my efforts to conserve posts and the fact that doing so is incredibly unnatural for me and makes the tone of my posts sound unnatural

so no, i haven't misrepresented your reasoning, i've acknowledged it

and i did not call dya wolfy so stop fucking implying i did, that's really uh. un-- well. the u word. you know the one

so, to recap, the wording of your original post was this:

"ah yes putting multiy thoughts in one post is wolfy for me, it is known

dya however has multiple posts with zero thoughts

there is a cap of 100 with no lift"

the reasoning here is that if it's wolfy for you to put multiple thoughts into one post, it's also wolfy for dyachei to make multiple posts with zero thoughts, yes? you are drawing a contrast between dyachei and yourself, and saying that people should be looking at dyachei instead of you if they're looking for wolfy behavior, right?

if that's not what you mean to say, then i do apologize for misconstruing your words, but i don't really see any other way to interpret that post. you are not saying that you personally find dyachei wolfy, but you are attempting to draw attention to behavior from dyachei that looks wolfy, yes?

to recap further, when you said the following:

"ah yes putting multiy thoughts in one post is wolfy for me, it is known"

you were characterizing the reasoning for people scumreading you as being about your attempts to condense your posts, when the real reason was ~nervousness~. i understand that you are saying that you sounding tonally off is a byproduct of you attempting to conserve your posts, but you have to admit that you made a bit of an extrapolation there, yes? you used hyperbolized language to describe what you perceived as the real reason people were scumreading you for, and then used that as the foundation for your argument. that's why i called it a "misrepresentation"

i don't really see the point in getting bogged down in a discussion like this, so we should probably table it here, but i am put off by the aggressiveness and i felt like it was important to make this post and explain my perspective, because we are clearly miscommunicating incredibly badly if we're both town

nutella is a villager

what makes you think so?

Alison's opening is ~fine? I had a thought about it but it disappeared, and this annoys me. Her take that sunbae/bronana/outed wolf contains a wolf based on the nutella push is decent on the surface. Don't agree with bronana being mafia, though. Their evaluation of SPF's post on page 1 is a villagery thought and I'm comfortable V reading them for having it.

Amy's posts are still super towny as I continue to read. How large is her scumrange?

SPF and Hally both vote Gavial. I actually agree. I was going to say that in this post but I see other people said it first. I've played many games with Gavial and caught him as a wolf several times, can link the games if you'd like. His play in this game so far looks squarely in wolf meta. The only concern I have is that it's SPF and Hally who pointed that out.

SPF's been posting lots more words. I'm beginning to think my initial scumread is a playstyle thing more than anything else. I should probably go read her CoV ISO for #reasons.

@nutella Where's the massive KZA townread coming from? Their posts didn't give me any impression whatsoever.

Didn't like Sunbae's initial posts but their posting this page has been good. Very high complexity of thought. I wolfread them in MU anni last year precisely because their thoughts didn't have that iirc. And because I disagreed with their takes a lot. Sunbae's take on Alison here is pretty good and I see where Sunbae's coming from.

Okay I'm done.

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

If they're town I should know this by EoD.

Same with Arete. Right now I'm null. Don't think anything they've done so far is out of their wolfrange. And you shouldn't underestimate Arete's wolfrange.

[Vulgard]

[VOTE: outed wolf] aubergine

Talk to me about the slot? I don't have many thoughts about it at the moment. Their posts didn't really register.

[Vulgard]

(I'm assuming since you entered the thread placing that vote that it means something.)

[Marluxion]

Zomg, everyone is so villagery in this game

are we reading the same game

[Vulgard]

Marl is a villager. This is the exact part of Sunbae's posting I thought was wolfy because my perspective was opposed. I didn't explicitly say it by bringing up a quote, but Marl zeroes in on that and has my exact initial reaction.

[Marluxion]

[VOTE: outed wolf] aubergine

Talk to me about the slot? I don't have many thoughts about it at the moment. Their posts didn't really register.

still catching up, only on page 2 but their vote on nutella in P#94 is extremely meh, if they thought nutte was actually wofly they'd have shown what post they thought was bad
i also think hally has wolf equity (as of page 2) but i'm hard blocking myself from tinfoiling hally on d1 after getting their alignment so wrong in reflections

[Vulgard]

Are you still catching up, or is your vote on outed wolf based on page 1 or something?