Buckets: War of the GOATs [END]

[ilario]

To avoid my reads shaping ur reads*

[Vulgard]

oh esooa should be in VVV i forgot about her

I don't recall any progression on that read, either.

Something something progression cases are bad, thanks c4, leave me alone.

@Wiml why are u voting ur mason partner

Paying attention to such a thing is admittedly towny, but this post came after alexa's read, not before it.

[Vulgard]

I was eating popcorn.

Why does Nanook have a wagon?

Something something wolfy pop in.

townreading alison this early when she is known as the best wolf on the syndicate is sus

anyways im going to bed

VVV: Alison, Ilario, LimeCoke
VV: Transcend, EnderWiggin
~
everyone else
W: Mac

Transcend is making my points for me. There was some progression in between but it was messy, weird, and I didn't get it at all.

town: me, ale, alison, ilario, mac, tony

poe: rest

Who pushed on this day 1? This towncore is 100% pure if my reads so far are correct and alexa is town.

[Vulgard]

...Wait. Why did he put alexa in the towncore after sussing her for bad progression? Maybe he liked the answer... whatever. Either way, if my reads are any good then Transcend was on the money day 1 and was the type of player wolves would want to kill at night, and yet he was misyeeted. He's also apparently an obvious wolf or something? How did that happen?

[TonyStarkPrime]

alexa :P

[TonyStarkPrime]

basically the read on transcend was he should have known that LC was town if he was town and the fact that he expressed doubt was scummy and if that argument sounds like TMI to you then uh idk it is probably

[Vulgard]

basically the read on transcend was he should have known that LC was town if he was town and the fact that he expressed doubt was scummy and if that argument sounds like TMI to you then uh idk it is probably

This sounds more like wtf than scummy. Those types of reads kill paranoid/doubtful villagers all the time.

I wanted to say that's actually towny for alexa in a vacuum if transcend didn't change his alexa read afterward. If you're wolfing, you don't push the villagers who are townreading you. However, if you're truthful about the reasoning used to push on him, that's so horrendous that I'm back to scumreading her for it.

Did anyone else embark on the push with commentary other than placing naked votes? What did they say?

And have you fulfilled your solving quota for the day already? Is that why you aren't solving and just listening to me talk like illario?

[ilario]

I was eating popcorn.

Why does Nanook have a wagon?

sounds too casual for them to be partners?

[ilario]

basically the read on transcend was he should have known that LC was town if he was town and the fact that he expressed doubt was scummy and if that argument sounds like TMI to you then uh idk it is probably

This sounds more like wtf than scummy. Those types of reads kill paranoid/doubtful villagers all the time.

I wanted to say that's actually towny for alexa in a vacuum if transcend didn't change his alexa read afterward. If you're wolfing, you don't push the villagers who are townreading you. However, if you're truthful about the reasoning used to push on him, that's so horrendous that I'm back to scumreading her for it.

Did anyone else embark on the push with commentary other than placing naked votes? What did they say?

And have you fulfilled your solving quota for the day already? Is that why you aren't solving and just listening to me talk like illario?

ive been reading from the start with you lol. tryna see if i can clear lc of partners with everyone as a ways of finding him as town lol

[Vulgard]

I was talking to TSP, not you.

[Vulgard]

still don't tr brad and i has a sad but maybe i'm bad cause people are getting mad

I still can't believe this was the day 1.

honestly I don't think Alison would fake the dumb tell as wolf

she just said that she would lol

she lies

Mildly villagery to encourage removing Alison from the misyeet pool if the post is serious.

[Vulgard]

Spoiler: show

I cry in V/V.

[ilario]

@alexa do these nks make sense to you in an ender/tsp world?

[Vulgard]

My biggest townreads not called illario are the d1 misyeet and the n1 kill.

[Vulgard]

I thought Alexa suspected you earlier for your treatment of me.

@alexa What is your Transcend read?

Why are you talking to alexa, you already solved the game. Transcend and I are wolves.

Tfw they were actually both yeeted, d1 and d2 respectively.

[Vulgard]

I mean I wouldn't consider myself 1P seeing that I'm looking towards others with reads on certain players.

I'm actually the least 1P player that ever existed I feel.

I'm like 13 pages in and I still haven't seen any indication this guy is here to solve the game.

[Vulgard]

Lime Coke completely ignoring Mac's openwolfing on page 13 and ignoring Transcend's contributions to it is also super wolfy, because it's like he knows it's V/V and there's no reason to prevent Mac from getting himself killed.

[Vulgard]

I don't know how to say this

You start by putting the TH together.

Then you add the I to make the "eh" sound.

Then you put the S at the end.

THIS.

Like, he's doing this instead. This is real openwolfing. He fizzled out so hard from his early pages, and it really shows. He's out of steam already, since as soon as the Epicmafia discourse ended (I think that's the community they were talking about), and he hasn't even tried to start solving yet. This really does look like what people such as Alison described as a 2/10 wolfgame and I'm starting to wonder how this wasn't yeeted day 1 over Transcend.

[Vulgard]

Fwiw, Ender is doing the exact same thing, but at least he's interacting with Mac and Transcend throughout, so it's slightly better.

[Vulgard]

Turbo Mac time.

Only been live for half a day and already caught first red.

the conviction in this post doesn't feel sincere honestly

I keep agreeing with Transcend on everything he says.

[alexa]

@alexa do these nks make sense to you in an ender/tsp world?

i think the NKs make sense in any world @ilario

[alexa]

ah, makes sense

well i will say the games that illario has read me the most uncharitably have been his scum games historically. if i were him i wouldn't take the approach toward me right out of the gate as wolf so i'm a bit hesitant to call him scum, in my gut i actually feel he may be town because i kept expecting him to not townread me immediately in a game (and he doesn't always but he never has outed a SR me on this except when he was scum), and i feel like i'm approaching this game similarly as i would as wolf so i could see it, but in addition to what brad's saying i can't townread him yet

The continued self-awareness is killing me, but I'm starting to think it's a personality thing and not AI.

didn't i defend you for gettin sussed for being overly self-aware in anni because ik im self-aware as town all the time or am i misremembering

[Vulgard]

ah, makes sense

well i will say the games that illario has read me the most uncharitably have been his scum games historically. if i were him i wouldn't take the approach toward me right out of the gate as wolf so i'm a bit hesitant to call him scum, in my gut i actually feel he may be town because i kept expecting him to not townread me immediately in a game (and he doesn't always but he never has outed a SR me on this except when he was scum), and i feel like i'm approaching this game similarly as i would as wolf so i could see it, but in addition to what brad's saying i can't townread him yet

The continued self-awareness is killing me, but I'm starting to think it's a personality thing and not AI.

didn't i defend you for gettin sussed for being overly self-aware in anni because ik im self-aware as town all the time or am i misremembering

Idr anything like that. I'm not sure I'd call myself self-aware, but that's probably not something I can determine by myself.

[alexa]

@ilario - Vulgard's posts on me feel extreme Uncharitable but i know i tend to get my view tainted by people's reads on me but it's not inspiring confidence on the slot, what do you think?

[Vulgard]

I don't know how to say this

You start by putting the TH together.

Then you add the I to make the "eh" sound.

Then you put the S at the end.

THIS.

I don't know how to say this

Lol say it. Go on. Do it.

worcestershire

It was harder figuring out how to spell it/spell it close enough so that the auto correct would list it. I had to google it.

What are you gesturing at Mac?

His drink is on the table behind you and he wants you to hand him his drink.

if Mac lives to day 2 I will quick hammer him, promise, no joke

You're funny.

like srsly why do ppl tr lime?

these are his 4 most recent posts, and none of them rly advance the game state.

town!brad tends to advance the game state quite a bit by offering his own insight on events that occur in the game but all this shit just feels blendy.

THANK YOU
WHY DID THEY KILL YOU DAY 1 THIS MAKES NO SENSE oiajegoieagale

[ilario]

@ilario - Vulgard's posts on me feel extreme Uncharitable but i know i tend to get my view tainted by people's reads on me but it's not inspiring confidence on the slot, what do you think?

hes town, and im not just saying that cos he trd me, if anything that made me a little wary. but then i thought to myself he would probably be less blatant about it if he were trying to pocket me

[alexa]

@ilario - Vulgard's posts on me feel extreme Uncharitable but i know i tend to get my view tainted by people's reads on me but it's not inspiring confidence on the slot, what do you think?

hes town, and im not just saying that cos he trd me, if anything that made me a little wary. but then i thought to myself he would probably be less blatant about it if he were trying to pocket me

i disagree because it feels like he went into it with "oh maybe alexa is a wolf because she seems excited" (even though this game has been pretty miserable for me and i explained my excitement) then he went and started nit-picking my posts w/that assumption so i feel like he's pocketing you

[alexa]

plus he literally knows my playstyle is like this cuz he's seen me in anni

[Vulgard]

And oh, Lime Coke's Brad? Somehow, that didn't even occur to me until now.
Turbo the guy, in that case. I villaged with him in DragonVale (admittedly he was alting but not for long) and his play didn't look like this.

@alexa How uncharitable of me to wolfread someone who's constantly self-aware, overreacts to the slightest wolfread, seeks to appease people scumreading them and pushed Transcend for bad reasons on day 1 according to TSP. I could probably spare the sarcasm, but the fact you're OMGUSing me right away for this is honestly laughable.

There are some villagery things you've done, and you've definitely been solving, but I don't think it's unreasonable for me not to townread you based on what I've seen from you in the early game, which is all that I've seen so far. And considering you seem to have misyeeted Transcend who'd be among my top TRs right now if he were alive. Yes, villagers make mistakes and push on town all the time, but I'm not sure how you can have this "scumreading me is bad faith ditto" attitude with all that in mind.

I don't hold my DragonVale misyeet against people like illario because I defended two wolves in that game and it was natural to me I'd get suspected. If you're a villager, it should be natural to you too, but instead I sense immense salt.

Don't take this personally, this isn't an attack on your character. But regardless, I think me not townreading you and putting you in PoE is perfectly fine. And sure, LC defended you on a meta basis, but LC is also very wolfy - so I don't weigh that much, if at all. Plus, you defended him as well, and I think he probably flips W now. I won't pursue this line until I actually see LC's flip, but yeah.

[ilario]

Tbh I don’t think anyone remembers anyone’s playstyle in anni. I remember seeing tsp there and if u told me this guy here and the dude I saw in anni were the same people I’d be shocked

[Vulgard]

@ilario - Vulgard's posts on me feel extreme Uncharitable but i know i tend to get my view tainted by people's reads on me but it's not inspiring confidence on the slot, what do you think?

hes town, and im not just saying that cos he trd me, if anything that made me a little wary. but then i thought to myself he would probably be less blatant about it if he were trying to pocket me

i disagree because it feels like he went into it with "oh maybe alexa is a wolf because she seems excited" (even though this game has been pretty miserable for me and i explained my excitement) then he went and started nit-picking my posts w/that assumption so i feel like he's pocketing you

That was the start of it, sure, but I fail to see how that's a problematic assumption. I didn't even put that much weight on it, it just made me take a closer look.
The pocketing remark is w/e, I can see people think that. It happens to me all the time when I townread people.

plus he literally knows my playstyle is like this cuz he's seen me in anni

I think your anni game was significantly townier than this and I thought you were obvious town on day 1. Suffice to say, I don't think so here.

[alexa]

And oh, Lime Coke's Brad? Somehow, that didn't even occur to me until now.
Turbo the guy, in that case. I villaged with him in DragonVale (admittedly he was alting but not for long) and his play didn't look like this.

@alexa How uncharitable of me to wolfread someone who's constantly self-aware, overreacts to the slightest wolfread, seeks to appease people scumreading them and pushed Transcend for bad reasons on day 1 according to TSP. I could probably spare the sarcasm, but the fact you're OMGUSing me right away for this is honestly laughable.

There are some villagery things you've done, and you've definitely been solving, but I don't think it's unreasonable for me not to townread you based on what I've seen from you in the early game, which is all that I've seen so far. And considering you seem to have misyeeted Transcend who'd be among my top TRs right now if he were alive. Yes, villagers make mistakes and push on town all the time, but I'm not sure how you can have this "scumreading me is bad faith ditto" attitude with all that in mind.

I don't hold my DragonVale misyeet against people like illario because I defended two wolves in that game and it was natural to me I'd get suspected. If you're a villager, it should be natural to you too, but instead I sense immense salt.

Don't take this personally, this isn't an attack on your character. But regardless, I think me not townreading you and putting you in PoE is perfectly fine. And sure, LC defended you on a meta basis, but LC is also very wolfy - so I don't weigh that much, if at all. Plus, you defended him as well, and I think he probably flips W now. I won't pursue this line until I actually see LC's flip, but yeah.

1. I'm self-aware. This is my playstyle. You nitpicked a post I hedged and quite literally said I hedged but just wanted to talk about my immediate thoughts. You're acting exactly how I'd expect a wolf to while picking apart me on a micro-level and ignoring things on a macro level

2. You literally cannot say Transcend would be a top townread when you weren't there

3. And this, TSP's information is wrong, I literally SAID THAT I VILLAGE READ TRANSCEND BY THE END OF THE DAY. It was mac and Alison specifically who were pushing that yeet through - I was one of the few people trying to engage with him and stating that I felt like his EOD was actually coming from him as a villager - he was just making his own bed

[alexa]

I didn't even vote Transcend by end of day one iirc

[alexa]

I have not defended LC much at all since day one and even pushed him at points. You're writing your own narrative.

[Vulgard]

I only have information from day one (not even all of it) and even said as much just now.

Now, who's being uncharitable?

[alexa]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost5066900
this is the posti 'm referring to

but like if you read any of my games i'm town ever i'm just extremely self-aware

[ilario]

does mac get caught this early as wolf very often?

i haven't played w him much but i'm giving ur thoughts about him due diligence

I haven't seen it with my own eyes but he says Hally and nutella called him out early in a game he played.

He also took heat early in Space Invaders but dug himself out rapidly with posts very similar to the ones he is making right now.

does he behave like this when he catches heat as town?

He doesn't catch heat as town.

Sometimes he does.

im gonna lol if this was a sneaky little tmi jab by ender

[Vulgard]

Meh, I don't think this is going to be very productive.

My reads are in the thread. I don't see myself doing much more today, but I'll probably keep reading tomorrow.

Vote's on Coke and I'd prefer to kill him before anyone else atm.

Glgl.

[ilario]

/unvote

[alexa]

well he's at L-1 so i'm not going to hammer him but if Brad has no reaction to everyone deciding he's a wolf then he probably is one
and it'd make sense why i haven't been able to find him with confidence all game.

[alexa]

oh good

[VOTE: LIME COKE] aubergine

[Lime Coke]

Okay I woke up to 8 notifications.

What the hell is going on?

[Lime Coke]

oh good

[VOTE: LIME COKE] aubergine

Give me a minute?

[ilario]

wagons might be tvt idk

just a threadstate read ig

[alexa]

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

[alexa]

wagons might be tvt idk

just a threadstate read ig

i really don't know and i just generally feel like i've fucked this game up by hyperposting, getting emotional, and not critically considering things, like i feel intensely that i want a redo because the thread is so bloated i don't have the motivation to parse things. it's been difficult on a new site. you're the only read i have any degree of confidence on and with the toxicity throughout this game i just lack motivation to figure anything out and feel like if i don't vote wiml i'm just going to get flamed by mac and esooa in post

[ilario]

do you think wiml/vul is a wolf though? i mean u trusted everyone elses reads in ur champs game even though ur better judgement told u it was justin. if wiml/vul is town and he gets mishammered and ur gut told u he was town you'll regret it more than if the slot is maf and u didnt hammer them because you trd it.

id always rather lose through my own mistakes than lose through someone elses.

[Lime Coke]

I actually don't have a single read yet.

I know this is like, 105 pages back, but.

Lime Coke, why did you feel pressured to give reads on page 1? Your statement implies you felt like you should have reads but did not, and I’m not sure where the first part comes from. The only read on that page before your post was Nanook hard townreading Transcend (correctly, but that’s beside the point), so it’s not like everyone was giving reads left and right. I’m not even sure whether Nanook’s townread was serious.

Because as a former EM player, and just my playstyle in general, I end up with a few snapreads early game. I saw nothing I could really give an alignment read before I posted.

Like, she hasn't really done anything that's her town game YET. If Alexa gets going she'll be obvious town.

Everything I do is my town game because I’m town

(I also agree I don’t think I’ve done anything AI yet if someone had a correct read on me it would be surprising or a crapshoot from numbers/probability odds)

Yes, and everyone that is townreading you that's not me has TMI.

I will then tunnel those individuals, and then complain about them once they flip town and take 0 blame.

Then proceed to lead town into an L.

…Sure. Kinda villagery? The mindset presented isn't something I see wolves fake very often, because it's dumb and wolves ~usually~ don't want to sound dumb.

This was me making a joke about a game prior to this on MU, the one where I was banned specifically. We had a player basically tunnel all villagers and townread the entire wolf team, anytime someone had a correct read that wasn't her, she would call it "TMI."

Then after that person would die and flip town, she would complain about that person instead of blaming herself for misreading the player(s). She basically lost the game for town.

ok that last post from LC is actually villagery af

yes @Lime Coke but i have some problems with it

why do you think Wiml is town?

What are the problems?

first thing that sticks out from memory is the "TMI" read on transcend because transcend was nook's first townread, why would that approach be considered TMI?
i will go through it for real though actually in the morning i'm kind of too tired to game right now but yeah

Because who ACTUALLY townreads Transcend in this game? Even if you "say" you townread him, you never actually meant it. Fuck him, ya'know.

Nanook just threw a townread on Transcend and never explained why. It's a TMI read.

Idk dude he looked like obvious town to me

That's not a real thought.

did you read his posts

Still not a real thought.

kind of gut townreading EnderWiggin

I'm not seeing where she's getting that from. I know it's gut, but still.

kind of gut townreading EnderWiggin

Agreeing with you. The "I'll find him by Day 3" post was actually kinda bad ass and towny.

It feels like Lime Coke is just agreeing with everything alexa is saying, no matter what it is. And sure, Lime has a townread on alexa already at this point, but the complete and utter agreeability is... odd. Especially since I don't even find alexa towny judging by her posts until then.

?probably? not W/W? I can't see them aligning themselves together so quickly in a game and setup like this, where they'd have to hope neither ever flips, because otherwise both will - and town wins.

I mean...I agree with most of the things she says because 1. She's better than me and 2. We sorta think the same when reading people?



I gotta respond to these a few quotes at a time because I'm getting lost when Vulgard is having multiquotes that involve multiple quotes themselves.

[alexa]

do you think wiml/vul is a wolf though? i mean u trusted everyone elses reads in ur champs game even though ur better judgement told u it was justin. if wiml/vul is town and he gets mishammered and ur gut told u he was town you'll regret it more than if the slot is maf and u didnt hammer them because you trd it.

id always rather lose through my own mistakes than lose through someone elses.

i don't know. if someone put a gun to my head and i had 0 influence whatsoever i'd call the slot town, but it's hard for me to ignore the voices of dead people screaming at me. like the amount of emotion wiml had and the way he treated me, if he did that and it wasn't genuine that would be completely fucked up, so i want to call him a villager for that.. i think the emotion was likely real regardless of alignment, but the amount he was insisting he would kill in us specifically is like stuff that's hard to make up so stubbornly if you don't believe it

[ilario]

i know mac/esooa are great players and their input is something ill take into account. but at the end of the day im playing the game with more info than they are since we have more posts and content as each day goes, and that alone is enough reason to not sheep. i mean think about vtubers? i almost tossed the game cos i was feeling super lazy and was like yeah sure the entire lobby trd ilya and srd marl im just gonna trust that and vote marl. but when i read the game with the entire perspective of everything that happened ilyas game was pretty scummy and marls was just insane amounts of towniness. this COULD be the case for wiml/vul or it could not, idk yet, but more signs point to him being town than wolf and this was what i thought even BEFORE the sub.