Philosophy Mafia 2: Electric Boogaloo

[MacDougall]

if roles arent tied to alignments, then why was the mafia presumably informed when mac and falcon became lovers? if the roles are written to be alignment-neutral then it doesnt really make sense to me that a condition of their role would be: "the mafia will find out when you do X", but maybe i shouldnt think about it

flail harder nerd

all i hear is howling

that sounds like an illness... you should get your hearing checked

[MacDougall]

emagherd if you nerds just let this play out the way I wanted I'd be killed by mafia without trying which would be hilar

just pretend to townread me and we will go away and you won't have to worry about us anymore... amazing stuff!

Yeah but this is mafia so you should find wolves, not just survive.

if I can get myself killed by the mafia early when they're trying to get me mischopped that's more +ev for town than me making reads tbh

[Esooa]

emagherd if you nerds just let this play out the way I wanted I'd be killed by mafia without trying which would be hilar

just pretend to townread me and we will go away and you won't have to worry about us anymore... amazing stuff!

Yeah but this is mafia so you should find wolves, not just survive.

if I can get myself killed by the mafia early when they're trying to get me mischopped that's more +ev for town than me making reads tbh

bruh

you can do both

[Marmot]

emagherd if you nerds just let this play out the way I wanted I'd be killed by mafia without trying which would be hilar

just pretend to townread me and we will go away and you won't have to worry about us anymore... amazing stuff!

Yeah but this is mafia so you should find wolves, not just survive.

if I can get myself killed by the mafia early when they're trying to get me mischopped that's more +ev for town than me making reads tbh

I recognized this too, which is another reason I've been mostly ignoring you today.

But you could probably offer a gamesolve since you're here, that would help that cause.

[MacDougall]

I just gave you a gamesolve. The mafia have been trying very hard to mischop me since jump. Especially SPF. NAA voting me now is probably outing for him. Nutella can die too.

[Dyslexicon]

How's that a towny post? With posts like that town isn't getting any closer to a solve

Also I don't know how many times I'll have to repeat this but the anne wagon still sucks

Well if I had great ideas, I would say so. I could make shit up also, if I was mafia.

Better to be open about being unsure than tunnelling on town all game like you are with me =)

Instead of hating everything I'm doing without trying to understand, why don't you engage with my reasons for town reading Nutella, since you are scum reading her?

I'm not the one who's voting anne for basically no reason. But go on ahead, I don't really buy arguments from other people that "x player never does this as mafia" or "b player always does this as town" because 1. people can learn from their past mistakes, 2. these arguments often reflect the biases of the person making them, and 3. a skilled player can fake all this anyway and I'd like to assume we're not bad players. JJJ was nothing like his scum game in the game I hosted where he was scum, but it didn't stop him from being scum. The reasons to scumread nutella are largely based around Jay interactions and how she dealt with the threadstate at EoD. This is more reliable because wolves can fake effort, they can fake emotion, but wolves will not generally make blatantly suboptimal plays. nutella only really defended Jay after I made it safe to do so by stating Jay was unlike his last wolf game, and the way she popped in to say she was alright with a Jay vote, but not actually change her vote in case anne picked up again, and her willingness to try to pick up an anne wagon again today with barely an acknowledgement it was confirmed to be wolfy. These are all stronger pieces of evidence against her than anything for her, and I still don't like her interaction with Esooa, and her contributions today are largely tinfoiling which doesn't help town. I also don't like how she seems to be added to the towncore alongside players like Lime Coke, Marmot, and cass who all have much stronger reasons to be townread. nutella seems like she might have an important role though, so I may be more willing to vote you or Esooa over her today, but you can't deny that nutella has had many wolfy moments this game.

Also, it's not unheard of for mafia to let town destroy itself, and given how much of a mess these past few pages are I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. Nobody should be giving anybody town points for hedginesss right now.

Anyway, I'm nearly out of posts right now and probably will only post again before EoD in case of an emergency, so keep that in mind.

Eh. I think you could do better trying to walk in other people’s shoes instead of forcing your own standards on others. But that’s just a general thing that probably won’t do anything for you.

I do hear you on Nutella tbh. But I don’t think you’re correct in saying Nutella only defended Jimmay after you did. Cause she defended Jimmay at several points during D1. It’s also the specific wording that makes me think she displays a lack of tmi. She said that him being off was overblown. Like he was generally fine. I don’t think she does that as teammates, because I think Jimmay was not really fine and basically the whole game agreed he was off. Reads more like lol!nutella who is contrarian and lacks tmi. I can see your reasons, but I think they are extremely superficial.

I think your reads are bad.
But the chances you will listen to me is minimal. But at least I tried.
Why is Anne town to you?

[nutella]

if roles arent tied to alignments, then why was the mafia presumably informed when mac and falcon became lovers? if the roles are written to be alignment-neutral then it doesnt really make sense to me that a condition of their role would be: "the mafia will find out when you do X", but maybe i shouldnt think about it

flail harder nerd

all i hear is howling

either the setup is broken or theyre bullshitting about the mafia finding out that theyre lovers

i changed my mind again [VOTE: spf] aubergine

like i feel like youre poking holes in the wrong things, i see no reason to believe they'd just make that part up lol (also what marmot said but im also squinting a bit at how he said his role gave the mafia clause if he randed town)


spf remind me what your stance on anne is rn bc i probably want to end on one of you or maybe naa

[falcon45ca]

Mac's explanation kinda makes sense if the role is exactly what it says it is.

The thing I'm still having trouble with is why falcon is unquestioningly persisting with a townread on Mac. I get that they might be lovers at this point, but he's not even trying to read him, despite not specifically knowing his alignment.

I'm not unquestioning, I just feel it's a slot that'll self resolve.


My straight up thoughts on Mac are that he's def not trying too hard as far as town solve hey ho let's go Mac is concerned. We do have a wolf flip tho, and its only D2, so thats not damming


I've scummed with him (you remember) and I'm also not getting that "push town in the direction I want them to go" Mac either he does as Wolf.


So with that, combined with our role mech, I wager he's town 7/10 times this game

[MacDougall]

if roles arent tied to alignments, then why was the mafia presumably informed when mac and falcon became lovers? if the roles are written to be alignment-neutral then it doesnt really make sense to me that a condition of their role would be: "the mafia will find out when you do X", but maybe i shouldnt think about it

flail harder nerd

all i hear is howling

either the setup is broken or theyre bullshitting about the mafia finding out that theyre lovers

i changed my mind again [VOTE: spf] aubergine

like i feel like youre poking holes in the wrong things, i see no reason to believe they'd just make that part up lol (also what marmot said but im also squinting a bit at how he said his role gave the mafia clause if he randed town)


spf remind me what your stance on anne is rn bc i probably want to end on one of you or maybe naa

Nutella can be alive again

[Marmot]

[VOTE: staypositivefriend] aubergine

Let's see what this button does.

[Dyslexicon]

If spf is mafia, Lime might be as well.

I agree with Nutella that spf is poking at the wrong things there.

[MacDougall]

step 1 ... kill spf
step 2 ... Mac and Falcon go to Valhalla
step 3 ... town loses the game from there and I mock you all in post

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: SPF] aubergine

[Marmot]

Yo Dizzy, that was you 101st post of the day

[MacDougall]

Yo Dizzy, that was you 101st post of the day

how many do I have left?

[Marmot]

Yo Dizzy, that was you 101st post of the day

how many do I have left?

205 is your cap, so 8 left.

[Lime Coke]

Bruh, can we literally talk about how all of Mac's reads are based on him just reading how others read him?

It's literally just OMGUS from him. That's what he does as mafia.

If spf is mafia, Lime might be as well.

I agree with Nutella that spf is poking at the wrong things there.

First of all I was attempting to CFD JJJ every time he had a vote on him because I thought Anne was town and the other wagons felt like shit to be on. That should be fucking clearing for me.

Dizzy explain to me with what Mac is doing is town coming from him? Are you just townreading him because of this role bullshit or what?

I have 4 posts left after this but I'm spending it here because SPF SHOULDN'T BE A WAGON

[staypositivefriend]

if roles arent tied to alignments, then why was the mafia presumably informed when mac and falcon became lovers? if the roles are written to be alignment-neutral then it doesnt really make sense to me that a condition of their role would be: "the mafia will find out when you do X", but maybe i shouldnt think about it

flail harder nerd

all i hear is howling

either the setup is broken or theyre bullshitting about the mafia finding out that theyre lovers

i changed my mind again [VOTE: spf] aubergine

like i feel like youre poking holes in the wrong things, i see no reason to believe they'd just make that part up lol (also what marmot said but im also squinting a bit at how he said his role gave the mafia clause if he randed town)


spf remind me what your stance on anne is rn bc i probably want to end on one of you or maybe naa

oh give me a break nutella, you really dont think that i would notice that mac's claim looked contradictory as town? i moved on from it the moment that marmot corrected me and that is the FIRST mechnically based read that ive made in this game, so if youre gonna claim that im "poking at the wrong stuff" then youre just looking for an excuse to vote me

i think anne might be a wolf and im fine with voting her. im fine with voting NAA too even though he didnt feel that wolfy during our interaction earlier

also, this is my last post before i postcap. i think it rules that i'm the leading wagon in spite of the fact that none of the people voting me have tried to engage with my posts or dialogue with me today, and when none of the people voting me have presented any reasons for why they actually find me wolfy (beside MAYBE nutella). if y'all wanna self-destruct and kill me out of paranoia in spite of the fact that ive been one of the most vocal and active solvers in this game and have been trying hard to engage with EVERYONE here today, then be my guest. ive made myself obvious town and if y'all can't find me then it isn't my responsibility anymore

[nutella]

Bruh, can we literally talk about how all of Mac's reads are based on him just reading how others read him?

It's literally just OMGUS from him. That's what he does as mafia.

thats pretty common from town mac too ime?


also lime i think youve been pretty townie but i have some reservations on your reads and i obviously dont agree with you on spf rn. i thought you were trying to cut down on hard shields anyway in case youre wrong

[Marmot]

This day feels rotten and I just wanna spice things up.

[nutella]

how does naa have zero voters and anne down to 1 this is maybe getting off track

im gonna [VOTE: anne] aubergine but want it known that i do not think spf should be getting a pass here, i think her response to me above is slightly >rand town in her snappish/indignant tone but i think everything shes posted this game has been in her wolfrange and i really think shes compatible with jay

[MacDougall]

Bruh, can we literally talk about how all of Mac's reads are based on him just reading how others read him?

It's literally just OMGUS from him. That's what he does as mafia.

If spf is mafia, Lime might be as well.

I agree with Nutella that spf is poking at the wrong things there.

First of all I was attempting to CFD JJJ every time he had a vote on him because I thought Anne was town and the other wagons felt like shit to be on. That should be fucking clearing for me.

Dizzy explain to me with what Mac is doing is town coming from him? Are you just townreading him because of this role bullshit or what?

I have 4 posts left after this but I'm spending it here because SPF SHOULDN'T BE A WAGON

thats not what I do as mafia what kinda bs is this... its literally what I've been trying to make happen. but you wouldn't understand having a game plan beyond simp.

[MacDougall]

how does naa have zero voters and anne down to 1 this is maybe getting off track

im gonna [VOTE: anne] aubergine but want it known that i do not think spf should be getting a pass here, i think her response to me above is slightly >rand town in her snappish/indignant tone but i think everything shes posted this game has been in her wolfrange and i really think shes compatible with jay

would be better to vote naa imo

[nutella]

i might yeah, i'm p much equally fine with anne/naa chops

i think anne is straight up wolfy on play, i do see some argument for her being town on wagonomics but again her d1 wagon was pretty pure imo and w/w wagons are more common than ppl think so it means little to me when shes the least towny person in the game

i think naa has had some glimmers of townie perspective but i have close to no experience with him and something seems slimy/off about how hes engaged with people, maybe i expect him to be more abrasive as town and maybe thats not fair but he's hard poe and his views of the game are fairly incoherent to me

[leetic]

Is it bad that the anne wagon has all three of my top scumreads?

The answer is yes. Yes, it is.

[leetic]

i might yeah, i'm p much equally fine with anne/naa chops

i think anne is straight up wolfy on play, i do see some argument for her being town on wagonomics but again her d1 wagon was pretty pure imo and w/w wagons are more common than ppl think so it means little to me when shes the least towny person in the game

i think naa has had some glimmers of townie perspective but i have close to no experience with him and something seems slimy/off about how hes engaged with people, maybe i expect him to be more abrasive as town and maybe thats not fair but he's hard poe and his views of the game are fairly incoherent to me

JJJ was on the damn thing

That's either my last or second-to-last post so see ya later

[MacDougall]

i might yeah, i'm p much equally fine with anne/naa chops

i think anne is straight up wolfy on play, i do see some argument for her being town on wagonomics but again her d1 wagon was pretty pure imo and w/w wagons are more common than ppl think so it means little to me when shes the least towny person in the game

i think naa has had some glimmers of townie perspective but i have close to no experience with him and something seems slimy/off about how hes engaged with people, maybe i expect him to be more abrasive as town and maybe thats not fair but he's hard poe and his views of the game are fairly incoherent to me

I can at least guarantee there are no wolves voting for naa right meow

[Lime Coke]

Bruh, can we literally talk about how all of Mac's reads are based on him just reading how others read him?

It's literally just OMGUS from him. That's what he does as mafia.

thats pretty common from town mac too ime?


also lime i think youve been pretty townie but i have some reservations on your reads and i obviously dont agree with you on spf rn. i thought you were trying to cut down on hard shields anyway in case youre wrong

I said I'd cut down on hard shields unless I can come up with full explanation on my read, which I have done plenty of times with why SPF is town. It's the differences in how she approaches her reads and how she creates her worldview. You can iso her recent mafia game in MU, then iso her here in this game and you'll notice a total difference.

Literally the shit that people are saying are scummy for her are flat out wrong and don't know how to read her in general. It's the same shit she gets FOS'd for when she's town.

@Marmot

What are you doing voting SPF? Vote somewhere else we both know that she's town.

i might yeah, i'm p much equally fine with anne/naa chops

i think anne is straight up wolfy on play, i do see some argument for her being town on wagonomics but again her d1 wagon was pretty pure imo and w/w wagons are more common than ppl think so it means little to me when shes the least towny person in the game

i think naa has had some glimmers of townie perspective but i have close to no experience with him and something seems slimy/off about how hes engaged with people, maybe i expect him to be more abrasive as town and maybe thats not fair but he's hard poe and his views of the game are fairly incoherent to me

JJJ was on the damn thing

That's either my last or second-to-last post so see ya later

Once again, Leetic is a damn hero.


I'd be fine with an NAA yeet.

3 posts left.

[MacDougall]

leetic is shielding Anne not spf lol

[nutella]

leetic's not a hero for being pedantic about details that deliberately miss the nuance of the point entirely and refusing to understand why anyone's perspective goes beind level 1 lol its pretty fucking annoying to play with

[Marmot]

Ok

[VOTE: NAA] aubergine

[anne]

sorry, work is very busy right now and im having trouble keeping up with the thread

[anne]

there's a good chance i die today which is okay since we got a maf yesterday

[anne]

I haven't read enough of my own wagon to feel comfortable giving a direct FOS there

[anne]

but meh maybe still Nutella for her having no reaction to my claim

[DrWilgy]

I'm here for a brief moment before further holiday driving.

I see Anne is the lead wagon. Neat. Doesn't make sense to me, but I won't cry about it. Still comfortable with either a Nutella or Mac yeet.

[DrWilgy]

This day feels rotten and I just wanna spice things up.

I'll be the spice in your life

[Marmot]

This day feels rotten and I just wanna spice things up.

I'll be the spice in your life

:<

[anne]

Okay, I see nothing else has happened since I last was able to read this thread. Nice.

Gonna just put my vote here for now:

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

[anne]

I'm actually not confident at all that this is a hit, I just dislike the way Nutella handled my claim and the way she's been pushing me

[nutella]

whats wrong with my response to your claim? i mean i think its weird that you seem to effectively be a tracker but worded in a roundabout way lol, but all i did was confirm my target and that the action failed (well and expressed paranoia that you blocked me)

i feel like youre just making up a reason to vote me lol

[anne]

I'm not making up a reason to vote me, I think your push is in bad faith. I feel like you've conveniently ignored all the other slots that have been pushed today too in favor of pushing me when I have hardly been here

[anne]

*Reason to vote you but you get what I mean

[anne]

Wait EOD is at fucking 11:59 PM???

[anne]

Well, praying I can make that

[Marmot]

Wait EOD is at fucking 11:59 PM???

Our host was super cool and hung out with his friends Friday, so the day didn't start until 11:59 PM that day

[Marmot]

I still think anne's wagon is weird because it was a counter wagon to Jay yesterday, and nutella is the only person who voted it both yesterday and is voting for it right now.

Also, 3 of the 5 people voting for anne right now either didn't vote yesterday (Dizzy, Sloonsooa) or voted a vanity wagon (iaafr).


Two of the people voting for anne yesterday are dead: Jay and MR

@falcon45ca @DrWilgy why aren't you voting for anne today?

[DrWilgy]

I still think anne's wagon is weird because it was a counter wagon to Jay yesterday, and nutella is the only person who voted it both yesterday and is voting for it right now.

Also, 3 of the 5 people voting for anne right now either didn't vote yesterday (Dizzy, Sloonsooa) or voted a vanity wagon (iaafr).


Two of the people voting for anne yesterday are dead: Jay and MR

@falcon45ca @DrWilgy why aren't you voting for anne today?

Because it's weird like you said.

I don't think scum Anne would have had Jay on it. I think there's good reason to assume that both Anne and I are V/V as there was no one really concerned with moving votes from her to me prior to the Jay wagon. I was going out of my way to be an easy yeet for science, but there still wasn't a hard push for it.

[Marmot]

You're weird.

[Marmot]

I still think anne's wagon is weird because it was a counter wagon to Jay yesterday, and nutella is the only person who voted it both yesterday and is voting for it right now.

Also, 3 of the 5 people voting for anne right now either didn't vote yesterday (Dizzy, Sloonsooa) or voted a vanity wagon (iaafr).


Two of the people voting for anne yesterday are dead: Jay and MR

@falcon45ca @DrWilgy why aren't you voting for anne today?

Because it's weird like you said.

I don't think scum Anne would have had Jay on it. I think there's good reason to assume that both Anne and I are V/V as there was no one really concerned with moving votes from her to me prior to the Jay wagon. I was going out of my way to be an easy yeet for science, but there still wasn't a hard push for it.

I think there are world where Anne and you are still wolves, but I don't think that's a good avenue to pursue today, maybe if we end up being wrong in the future.

Rarely does it happen where several wolves become leading wagons in the same day. Dizzy and I watched it happen in a game we hosted earlier this year (and nutella and Mac were on that scum team, nutella being one of those wagons), but I don't think it's common at all.

Actually, now I'm curious if nutella has talked about that at all.