Re: Solar System Mafia [Day 3]
Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:30 am
This iso isn't even that big
They have evolved to be better, like a butterflyThunal33 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:16 pmAlso how are my reads backwards when I was also suspecting splints and falcon, and am now less sure about Zenon's alignment?Porscha wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 7:10 pm My problem is that if zenon is actually town then it means I'm left with a poe of like, fs and falcon and to a much lesser degree Roxy. I dont see why it cant be fs and falcon for example but there so much less content from them to scrutinize. @Zenon when you come back pls let me know what you think of Falcons posts today
You've been sus of me all meowdayZenon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:31 amFalcon is mehPorscha wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 7:10 pm My problem is that if zenon is actually town then it means I'm left with a poe of like, fs and falcon and to a much lesser degree Roxy. I dont see why it cant be fs and falcon for example but there so much less content from them to scrutinize. @Zenon when you come back pls let me know what you think of Falcons posts today
But I think if splints is wolf so is Roxy frankly
Also I'm sus of you right meow
I mean I dont think what you're saying is what actually happened but I think it's just from perspective differencesThunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:11 amI think Roxy was a push you made but then backed off when you realized you misremembered, but we might have different definitions of pushes. Wdym logical in conclusion?Porscha wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 11:45 pmwell i'm most certainly not trying to get anyone to do my pushes for me, since roxy wasn't a push I made and I was the only one pushing psv until I changed my mind on her lol. I think you're taking the pings and forgetting to ensure if they are logical in conclusionThunal33 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:10 pmI know you ended up backing off Roxy because you misunderstood. I just got pinged by the way you went about asking me at EoD yesterday and today, like you were trying to get the strongest voice to push your pushes.Porscha wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:03 pmNo, I wanted us to find common ground after you came into the day already viewing my eod at level 1. And I already stated that my read of Roxy's eod was incorrect since most of it rode on the idea that roxy was the one who jumped on my psv tmi idea, when it was actually falconThunal33 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:08 pmThis is a slight ping from Porscha. I felt I needed to reeval on Roxy at the time so this didn't ping me, however now that I find Roxy's reentrance somewhat towny because of how similar her thoughts are to mine it seems similar to Porscha trying to talk me off defending PSV. For context I made a list with Roxy in my townreads. It feels like Porscha wants to get me onto her pushes to lend them credibility or make them more likely to go through.
Like I would have not said you were the loudest voice in the room, but you think you were / are, you think I used you for a push when I had already been making the push without you all day, that kind of perspective diffPorscha wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:21 pmI mean I dont think what you're saying is what actually happened but I think it's just from perspective differencesThunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:11 amI think Roxy was a push you made but then backed off when you realized you misremembered, but we might have different definitions of pushes. Wdym logical in conclusion?Porscha wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 11:45 pmwell i'm most certainly not trying to get anyone to do my pushes for me, since roxy wasn't a push I made and I was the only one pushing psv until I changed my mind on her lol. I think you're taking the pings and forgetting to ensure if they are logical in conclusionThunal33 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:10 pmI know you ended up backing off Roxy because you misunderstood. I just got pinged by the way you went about asking me at EoD yesterday and today, like you were trying to get the strongest voice to push your pushes.Porscha wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:03 pmNo, I wanted us to find common ground after you came into the day already viewing my eod at level 1. And I already stated that my read of Roxy's eod was incorrect since most of it rode on the idea that roxy was the one who jumped on my psv tmi idea, when it was actually falconThunal33 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:08 pmThis is a slight ping from Porscha. I felt I needed to reeval on Roxy at the time so this didn't ping me, however now that I find Roxy's reentrance somewhat towny because of how similar her thoughts are to mine it seems similar to Porscha trying to talk me off defending PSV. For context I made a list with Roxy in my townreads. It feels like Porscha wants to get me onto her pushes to lend them credibility or make them more likely to go through.
Yeah you're right it's a lot of posts lolThunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:17 amHere they are:Porscha wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 11:53 pmcan you quote the falcon posts where you feel he went into more depth with fs?Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:33 pm Falcon ISO:Still reads as slightly wolfy to me because it’s not taking accountability for the mislim.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 10:08 amI am sheeping Thunal.RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 10:07 am Any particular reason Falcon or just your wolf buddy being pretty obv wolf?
I think that Falcon giving an original take on Splints at a time when she’d caught up and wasn’t as LHF as d1 was slightly towny.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 10:38 am Hmmmm...I'm seeing fingers defend LHF/slankers a lot, but she doesn't seem to be concerned over the players pushing these slots...almost as tho she's aware that town is pushing town.
[VOTE: fingers] auberginefalcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 7:06 pm Hmmmm, going thru Ricochet's ISO, I find it far more towny than PSV'sI don’t like this at all. The implied TMI thing was pretty weak and there’s a lack of reasoning on anyone other than Splints and a pattern of sheeping. I’ll go out on a limb and say Falcon/Porscha aren’t w/w for this. If Falcon is a wolf, I think he tried to pin responsibility for the PSV ML on Porscha.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 7:31 pm
Yeah actually, reading that it does have an implied tmi on Rondo's slot. Good catch!
[VOTE: PSV] aubergine
Fmpov this just doesn’t make sense and I think it could either be a wolf painting a t/t or t/w pair as w/w or a townie with an out there tinfoil. I’m entertaining the idea of a Falcon/Splints team. Falcon seemed to have significantly better reasoning on Splints than he did on anyone else.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 3:19 pm I've got mild tinfoil that they're w/w actually. They're both kinda using kid's gloves on each other, not pushing each other reallyThere's just a lot more interaction, engagement, and reasoning on Splints than on anyone else.Spoiler: show
Only because not enough people were here for eod... otherwise 2 minutes is a doable flash wagon lolRoxy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:38 amthats my point lolThunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:32 amI mean, I can since the timestamp was 8:58 lol.Roxy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:31 amIdk that you could say the last elim she only voted for Zenon with just a couple of minutes left before the EoD.Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 7:48 pmPorscha wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 8:15 pm Ye I'll try to be here for close of eod but no garauntees
I feel bad cuz I have a penchant for SR'ing neon when she is town a lot but I just dont get her this game at all (I guess I have this issue when she is town sometimes too) but after wolfing with her recently I was surprised she was allowed to play the way she did and get away with it for so long and idk i just know if i dont flip her i will confbias her for rest of the game at this point
[VOTE: Zenon] aubergine
Dont feel better about voting anyone else either, especially fs and falcon who didnt really get a chance to play yetPorscha/Zenon is another unpairing since I don't think Porscha flash wagon votes Zenon twice.
I am leaning falcon/Porscha with a side eye full of Zenon.
timkestamp 8;58. Not a flashwagon per se just a vote jump. No way it was gonna turn into a flashwagon in 2 minutes.
So the second deffo was -not- a flashwagon imo
MeowdidooPorscha wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:20 pmYou've been sus of me all meowdayZenon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:31 amFalcon is mehPorscha wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 7:10 pm My problem is that if zenon is actually town then it means I'm left with a poe of like, fs and falcon and to a much lesser degree Roxy. I dont see why it cant be fs and falcon for example but there so much less content from them to scrutinize. @Zenon when you come back pls let me know what you think of Falcons posts today
But I think if splints is wolf so is Roxy frankly
Also I'm sus of you right meow
Come on miss falcon reading queen!!! I asked specifically you about him cuz you've been touting your falcon reading ability recently
Oh, I misunderstood. It put the wagons to 3/3/2 PSV/Rico/Zenon so if someone else switched Zenon could have gone over.Roxy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:38 amthats my point lolThunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:32 amI mean, I can since the timestamp was 8:58 lol.Roxy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:31 amIdk that you could say the last elim she only voted for Zenon with just a couple of minutes left before the EoD.Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 7:48 pmPorscha wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 8:15 pm Ye I'll try to be here for close of eod but no garauntees
I feel bad cuz I have a penchant for SR'ing neon when she is town a lot but I just dont get her this game at all (I guess I have this issue when she is town sometimes too) but after wolfing with her recently I was surprised she was allowed to play the way she did and get away with it for so long and idk i just know if i dont flip her i will confbias her for rest of the game at this point
[VOTE: Zenon] aubergine
Dont feel better about voting anyone else either, especially fs and falcon who didnt really get a chance to play yetPorscha/Zenon is another unpairing since I don't think Porscha flash wagon votes Zenon twice.
I am leaning falcon/Porscha with a side eye full of Zenon.
timkestamp 8;58. Not a flashwagon per se just a vote jump. No way it was gonna turn into a flashwagon in 2 minutes.
So the second deffo was -not- a flashwagon imo
When I meant strongest voice I didn't mean loudest. I was the most townread person in the thread and probably would have the most influence over wagons. I don't think you used me for the Roxy push anymore btw. It was something I thought was off especially after you disputing my defense of PSV, but your defense reads to me that it wasn't your intention.Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:23 pmLike I would have not said you were the loudest voice in the room, but you think you were / are, you think I used you for a push when I had already been making the push without you all day, that kind of perspective diffPorscha wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:21 pmI mean I dont think what you're saying is what actually happened but I think it's just from perspective differencesThunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:11 amI think Roxy was a push you made but then backed off when you realized you misremembered, but we might have different definitions of pushes. Wdym logical in conclusion?Porscha wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 11:45 pmwell i'm most certainly not trying to get anyone to do my pushes for me, since roxy wasn't a push I made and I was the only one pushing psv until I changed my mind on her lol. I think you're taking the pings and forgetting to ensure if they are logical in conclusionThunal33 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:10 pmI know you ended up backing off Roxy because you misunderstood. I just got pinged by the way you went about asking me at EoD yesterday and today, like you were trying to get the strongest voice to push your pushes.Porscha wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:03 pmNo, I wanted us to find common ground after you came into the day already viewing my eod at level 1. And I already stated that my read of Roxy's eod was incorrect since most of it rode on the idea that roxy was the one who jumped on my psv tmi idea, when it was actually falconThunal33 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:08 pm
This is a slight ping from Porscha. I felt I needed to reeval on Roxy at the time so this didn't ping me, however now that I find Roxy's reentrance somewhat towny because of how similar her thoughts are to mine it seems similar to Porscha trying to talk me off defending PSV. For context I made a list with Roxy in my townreads. It feels like Porscha wants to get me onto her pushes to lend them credibility or make them more likely to go through.
This is an actual town ping from Porscha that I missed. I think this sort of subverting expectations comes more often from town. Like in the season 8 finale in f3 someone asked how people reacted to Katze's wolf flip, Boquise (who had defended Katze and voted me incorrectly) responded that he couldn't stop laughing. After the game he said that made him town since it was too absurd a reaction for a wolf to have.
Roxy is someone I feel like I may have not considered enough after she came into today with very similar reads as I did and I thought she looked good from her analysis today. Since I believe the wagons were t/t I don't think her placing a tiebreaker vote on PSV is scummy. I don't think her flippant Epi read made a lot of sense and then I got pinged by her d2 initially not wanting to put Epi into the PoE because she didn't want to be "no u" this game. What do you think of this?Ricochet wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:04 am Roxy
Day 1
#310 upon catch-up, immediate frustration at Epigvoting her and appealing to past knowledge; also points out to Thunal that meta arguments usually backfire in reading her, implies switching up her meta
#316 multi-quote ideas
-- disagrees with Epig's take on me
-- points out that Epig usually fumbles early meta reads
-- clears Rondo's shtick as typical
-- doesn't like Thunal clearing top posters
#407 defends against Rondo thinking her opening reaction was over the top
#439 multi-read
-- no to vote splints (absent policy)
-- points on falcon "make sense", considers him dipping out
-- concerned of Porscha lacking content
-- Epignosis "flippant"; chooses to vote here
Day 2
#655 the outburst post
#836 reads Splints 75% town
#837 open conversation with falcon about her outburst being AI
#847 uses Zenon's "faux-POE" (that's a mouthful) to create her PoE of Zenon and Epig // rescinded when Zenon clarified it was just the wagon situation
#854 pinged by my snap vote interaction with Zenon
#855 apologises to Thunal for placing her in the PoE
#865 reads Splints town for low-activity, feels she would post even less as mafia
#869 judges Zenon for potential AtE
#870 and considers that Zenon's take on her own AtE was overblown
#xxx more back and forth with Zenon, seems heated
#931 dismisses Porscha's argument on PSV
#1026 picks PSV
Day 3
#1089 critcal of Porscha moving, finds it phony
#1095 rebuttal on suspecting me: meta uncertainty from long period of absence
#1100 agrees that Zenon flip will "blow the game open" (paraphrases Zenon)
#xxxx EODs
-- Porscha messy
-- still on the fence with me
-- seems to trust Epig's adverb sniffing on Porscha
-- falcon most pingy
-- pinged by Zenon but policy town read on her AtE
#1245 new PoE, I suppose? leans falcon/Porscha, maybe Zenon
OKs
-- that she did a multi-read at her EoD1, I didn't recall this and certainly not being so multi-faceted
-- more solving D2 and D3
A bit eeeehhh
-- absolving Splints of D1 activity (for AFK), but not falcon for the same low-to-nothing activity; I can read the nuance, though, that she may have considered falcon to have done minimal work and bailed
-- bit of a double standard in judgemental towards Zenon appearing to AtE, but finding Zenon's take on her own overblown
-- really not sure why she suspected me solely for not finding any bearing and appealing to (lack of) meta
Pings
-- Where did her PoE'ing Zenon come from, all of a sudden, on D2
-- She created PoEs but didn't act on any choices
-- sus on Zenon's AtE D2 turned to benefit of doubt for repeated AtE on D3
wut?
-- How did Thunal feature in her PoE mid-D2 (#855) and why?
Personal angle
I've now revisited that Roxy basically just gambled the D2 tie-break, no other reasoning at that time. Just like with Epig, I see no reason why wolf Roxy wouldn't have picked either of those mislynches opportunities. She had more eyeballs and fence-sitting on me, so there was a tiny bit of reasoning to go by.
In a vacuum, PSV vote is the worse (worst) wagon pick for her, since she dismissed the main take on PSV. Not inclined to think Roxy isn't perceptive not to look that phony in voting a lynch she didn't agree with the case.
w!Roxy perspective
Wolf with a bad start and a really daring gambit of sending FUs and banking on town cred from it. Not the type to manage balance in activity and reads and substantiated votes, but the type to ride the wave, whatever may be
t!Roxy perspective
Pretty much the outburst. And a gradually more engaged and solvey town.
w/w compatible odds
Believe it or not, it's the first pairing with Thunal I could imagine. Just too many instances of weird pokes and distrust, enough to warrant consideration of creating bits of statements, in case she would get the chop (or, however unlikely, Thunal would).
w/w incompatible odds
Probably not wolf with Zenon, too much free poking on D2 and still plays the sus on her toDay, so too much locking into distancing and even potentially bussing the teammate.
I think my OK / Ping split comments are more eloquent than making further closing statements. Policy still tempts me to clear her for the outburst, just like I cannot conceive a w/w pairing between Zenon/Splints. But on activity alone, the acceptable is not bad, the pings are not the worst.
Don't think I will place her in the PoE today.
She later explained that Epi was still in her PoE and her wording in that post was wonky, but I still can see it as part of an unwillingness to pressure Epi d2. The wolf perspective would be her avoiding a more difficult push but if she wanted to avoid more difficult pushes I don't see why she would put me in her PoE.
How often do you think wolves kill one of their scum reads? Especially in a 9v2?Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:15 pmRoxy is someone I feel like I may have not considered enough after she came into today with very similar reads as I did and I thought she looked good from her analysis today. Since I believe the wagons were t/t I don't think her placing a tiebreaker vote on PSV is scummy. I don't think her flippant Epi read made a lot of sense and then I got pinged by her d2 initially not wanting to put Epi into the PoE because she didn't want to be "no u" this game. What do you think of this?Ricochet wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:04 am Roxy
Day 1
#310 upon catch-up, immediate frustration at Epigvoting her and appealing to past knowledge; also points out to Thunal that meta arguments usually backfire in reading her, implies switching up her meta
#316 multi-quote ideas
-- disagrees with Epig's take on me
-- points out that Epig usually fumbles early meta reads
-- clears Rondo's shtick as typical
-- doesn't like Thunal clearing top posters
#407 defends against Rondo thinking her opening reaction was over the top
#439 multi-read
-- no to vote splints (absent policy)
-- points on falcon "make sense", considers him dipping out
-- concerned of Porscha lacking content
-- Epignosis "flippant"; chooses to vote here
Day 2
#655 the outburst post
#836 reads Splints 75% town
#837 open conversation with falcon about her outburst being AI
#847 uses Zenon's "faux-POE" (that's a mouthful) to create her PoE of Zenon and Epig // rescinded when Zenon clarified it was just the wagon situation
#854 pinged by my snap vote interaction with Zenon
#855 apologises to Thunal for placing her in the PoE
#865 reads Splints town for low-activity, feels she would post even less as mafia
#869 judges Zenon for potential AtE
#870 and considers that Zenon's take on her own AtE was overblown
#xxx more back and forth with Zenon, seems heated
#931 dismisses Porscha's argument on PSV
#1026 picks PSV
Day 3
#1089 critcal of Porscha moving, finds it phony
#1095 rebuttal on suspecting me: meta uncertainty from long period of absence
#1100 agrees that Zenon flip will "blow the game open" (paraphrases Zenon)
#xxxx EODs
-- Porscha messy
-- still on the fence with me
-- seems to trust Epig's adverb sniffing on Porscha
-- falcon most pingy
-- pinged by Zenon but policy town read on her AtE
#1245 new PoE, I suppose? leans falcon/Porscha, maybe Zenon
OKs
-- that she did a multi-read at her EoD1, I didn't recall this and certainly not being so multi-faceted
-- more solving D2 and D3
A bit eeeehhh
-- absolving Splints of D1 activity (for AFK), but not falcon for the same low-to-nothing activity; I can read the nuance, though, that she may have considered falcon to have done minimal work and bailed
-- bit of a double standard in judgemental towards Zenon appearing to AtE, but finding Zenon's take on her own overblown
-- really not sure why she suspected me solely for not finding any bearing and appealing to (lack of) meta
Pings
-- Where did her PoE'ing Zenon come from, all of a sudden, on D2
-- She created PoEs but didn't act on any choices
-- sus on Zenon's AtE D2 turned to benefit of doubt for repeated AtE on D3
wut?
-- How did Thunal feature in her PoE mid-D2 (#855) and why?
Personal angle
I've now revisited that Roxy basically just gambled the D2 tie-break, no other reasoning at that time. Just like with Epig, I see no reason why wolf Roxy wouldn't have picked either of those mislynches opportunities. She had more eyeballs and fence-sitting on me, so there was a tiny bit of reasoning to go by.
In a vacuum, PSV vote is the worse (worst) wagon pick for her, since she dismissed the main take on PSV. Not inclined to think Roxy isn't perceptive not to look that phony in voting a lynch she didn't agree with the case.
w!Roxy perspective
Wolf with a bad start and a really daring gambit of sending FUs and banking on town cred from it. Not the type to manage balance in activity and reads and substantiated votes, but the type to ride the wave, whatever may be
t!Roxy perspective
Pretty much the outburst. And a gradually more engaged and solvey town.
w/w compatible odds
Believe it or not, it's the first pairing with Thunal I could imagine. Just too many instances of weird pokes and distrust, enough to warrant consideration of creating bits of statements, in case she would get the chop (or, however unlikely, Thunal would).
w/w incompatible odds
Probably not wolf with Zenon, too much free poking on D2 and still plays the sus on her toDay, so too much locking into distancing and even potentially bussing the teammate.
I think my OK / Ping split comments are more eloquent than making further closing statements. Policy still tempts me to clear her for the outburst, just like I cannot conceive a w/w pairing between Zenon/Splints. But on activity alone, the acceptable is not bad, the pings are not the worst.
Don't think I will place her in the PoE today.
She later explained that Epi was still in her PoE and her wording in that post was wonky, but I still can see it as part of an unwillingness to pressure Epi d2. The wolf perspective would be her avoiding a more difficult push but if she wanted to avoid more difficult pushes I don't see why she would put me in her PoE.
Good post I agreeThunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:55 pm Rn my reads look like this:
Town:
Rico
Townlean:
Zenon
Porscha
Roxy
PoE:
Splints
Falcon
As far as a solve, I think Splints/Falcon and Roxy/Falcon are plausible. Roxy/Splints is possible but I feel like it's almost too much buddying and defending for most wolves to be comfortable with.