Re: JJJ's Bad First Dates Mafia [Day 3]
Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:44 am
Murder, Mayhem, and Mafia
https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/
Aye, I think it kinda has to just be Epi.
I've been here for a day and have read about 10 pages so...doing the best I can with that.DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:51 am And honestly your Epi read being contrary, for minimal perceived reason, and what almost seems like an arbitrary refusal of omgus, makes me think your opinion on the matter has agenda.
I'd expect T to have speculation over those pushing them that I do not see in you at all.
And I don't automatically think people are bad just bc they wrongly thing I am. Sometimes, they're just wrong.DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:51 am And honestly your Epi read being contrary, for minimal perceived reason, and what almost seems like an arbitrary refusal of omgus, makes me think your opinion on the matter has agenda.
I'd expect T to have speculation over those pushing them that I do not see in you at all.
So me, you, zenon, pyx, falcon, guillo are all town? I don't think that maths.DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:49 amAye, I think it kinda has to just be Epi.
Pyx and Falc are town and I'd bet the game on it.
Guillo I don't have a meta for, but I really don't think a wolf has the interactions with Seanzie that Guillo had D2.
Don't think it's Zenon either.
And I appreciate youKate wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 1:37 pmI've been here for a day and have read about 10 pages so...doing the best I can with that.DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:51 am And honestly your Epi read being contrary, for minimal perceived reason, and what almost seems like an arbitrary refusal of omgus, makes me think your opinion on the matter has agenda.
I'd expect T to have speculation over those pushing them that I do not see in you at all.
I always have minimally perceived reason.
Aye, and I don't think it is an automatic thing either. It does normally exist though. It's also only more agenda-y in tandem with the lack of reason.Kate wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 1:38 pmAnd I don't automatically think people are bad just bc they wrongly thing I am. Sometimes, they're just wrong.DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:51 am And honestly your Epi read being contrary, for minimal perceived reason, and what almost seems like an arbitrary refusal of omgus, makes me think your opinion on the matter has agenda.
I'd expect T to have speculation over those pushing them that I do not see in you at all.
Zenon, I take it you have towned against wolf!Robyn?Zenon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 3:15 amI get anxious I'm clearing Wilgy too easily...Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 3:02 amAny names I should have on my radar that I dont?Zenon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 2:53 amI just want wagon balance and kinda am panicking that tutuu is just playing weird for whatever reason and is town.
Panic bad.
Anyways I can't read falcon for shit. Seems like falcon. I've seen falcon wolf once and he kinda try harded I dunno if that's normal or not.
And Robyn is a threat that I likely won't find if she is wolfing
Wanna check into those and lemme no what you see?
But I don't think you are townie and I acknowledge that I could be wrong on Zenon.Kate wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 1:40 pmSo me, you, zenon, pyx, falcon, guillo are all town? I don't think that maths.DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:49 amAye, I think it kinda has to just be Epi.
Pyx and Falc are town and I'd bet the game on it.
Guillo I don't have a meta for, but I really don't think a wolf has the interactions with Seanzie that Guillo had D2.
Don't think it's Zenon either.
I'm not seeing much change since I was last awake?
This is the problem I'm seeing with her reads on people, they are generalized, there is no meet on them except for Tutuu, which I agreed with her as well. Tutuu was wolfy.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:10 am
Your read here on Robyn is a throw away, since you claimed they weren't Maf, and also don't have a read on them.
And there's nothing you point to that informs the Robyn read, it's vague & generalized
And today when I asked her why did she flip on Rem she went on auto defense mode and declared that a thunderdome must take place between she and I. How is that townie?Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:22 pmThis is the problem I'm seeing with her reads on people, they are generalized, there is no meet on them except for Tutuu, which I agreed with her as well. Tutuu was wolfy.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:10 am
Your read here on Robyn is a throw away, since you claimed they weren't Maf, and also don't have a read on them.
And there's nothing you point to that informs the Robyn read, it's vague & generalized
But if you check when she talks about Seanzie, Zenon calls him town without saying why, then in the big wall post with anime gifs, she outs a hedging read on Seanzie voicing concern on him but still townreading, then on day 2 she declares that she no longer townreads Seanzie without saying why (I know why, Seanzie was suspecting her and she just OMGUS), She parked on Seanzie until we started talking about eliminating Robyn and Rem, then she appealed to Seanzie about to killing Rem, then Seanzie scum reads he and she actually appeals to him as if she knew Seanzie was town and then we know the rest.
Another example is myself, she had me in her townreads all game except today. She townread me more being uncooperative with Seanzie (even though she said it was my indignation) when he asked me why I was suspecting Epignosis and another player I dont remember now, then that she still townread me but that she was concerned about my derp being fake, then she voted Tutuu to save me from elimination, on day 2 she continued to townread me, then voted me to tie me with Rem (because she liked Rem more than me), then she dropped it and went for Seanzie, then Epignosis all in an attempt to save her townreads that she had no in game justification for, again, we know what happened at the end.
She has played very uncooperatively when prompted to show us her minset about her reads on people, specially Rem, then she just kills Rem.
Who is my teammate? You?DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:49 amAye, I think it kinda has to just be Epi.
Pyx and Falc are town and I'd bet the game on it.
Guillo I don't have a meta for, but I really don't think a wolf has the interactions with Seanzie that Guillo had D2.
Don't think it's Zenon either.
I'm waiting to be pampered.
Rand is anti town though. But yah, she eliminating Rem does not make sense.DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:27 amI disagree with this view very much.Zenon wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:10 amRand is anti town. I will never let a vote rand if I can help it. Ever.DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:09 pmZenon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:33 pmRand is anti townfalcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:31 pm
Why the need to untie the wagons? Why not vote Epi if she's been TR Rem at that point? What kind of interactions does she have w/ Epi?
Yeah, sometimes it is that easy
Rand is strictly not anti town if you enable a 50/50 between a w and t where it was just a t going over previously though...
You threw your own top town over because of this thinking then decided to blame everyone else. I think your flawed view on ties and how to handle a perceived TvT game state here is exactly what's caused this aggravating game state we are in now. I think, in a TvT game state, if one should try to rationalize the arguments made for each (as it's impossible for everyone involved to be wolf), and then make the best vote even if it results in a tie. That will always result in a higher chance for a W flip.
I think I'd be more keen to just try trusting your Kate read if it wasn't for the blaming of others and the AtE you expressed in response into the EoD which really reminds me of your gameplay in Hot Fuzz. There's a big difference between 'I panic'd and impulsively voted, my bad' and the AtE and blame you expressed going into this phase.
Also, I don't want this to come across as a criticism on you, rather my view on EoD and following. I somewhat struggled writing this one out as you are my friend and I do want to think you are town, acking that I think you are town, I can see this view of yours being genuine. I do not wish to bash/criticize your genuine view or emotion related. I don't think I'd make this argument in the first place if I didn't think it was needed for expressing my thoughts on this game state and where I'm at.
Sub Kate is trying desperately to get thoughts without reading 40 or whatever pages.
I've experienced this. I didn't get mad. I won. With songs.
Just no.
Used to love the Slip and Slide as a kid. Tried it again in my 30s. Oof, what a mistake that experience was.
I don't vote for myself. I find it antithetical to the spirit of the game.pyxxy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:49 pm I think what I'm having trouble squaring is
- if Epi flips scum, then I always chop Zenon next
- but if Epi flips town, nothing feels clarified about Zenon?
hmmm
- well, if Zenon flips scum, then I want to chop Epi next for potential theater but idk if that's really right
- if Zenon flips town, I think maybe I can townread Epi? because why would scum knowingly suicide
but that's my whole Epi read in general, it's technically WIFOM but like, why vote off
oh, well, wait a second
@Epignosis why didn't you self-vote instead of voting Zenon at EOD yesterday, to confirm your own death?
In my opinion, and I know her quite well, voting rem is not all that crazy. This new genz group of mafia players have these hard core theories/rules that thwy place on themselves. I don't necessarily agree with A LOT of them but they are hard core. It's similar to the day 1 counterwagon must be flipped. I hate that and I won't go along with it as an absolute. I'm not throwing shade at any group or their play, I've just been trying to play with them and learn their tactics. I'd bet the game on zenon being civ despite her voting rem, to avoid a tie.Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:24 pmAnd today when I asked her why did she flip on Rem she went on auto defense mode and declared that a thunderdome must take place between she and I. How is that townie?Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:22 pmThis is the problem I'm seeing with her reads on people, they are generalized, there is no meet on them except for Tutuu, which I agreed with her as well. Tutuu was wolfy.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:10 am
Your read here on Robyn is a throw away, since you claimed they weren't Maf, and also don't have a read on them.
And there's nothing you point to that informs the Robyn read, it's vague & generalized
But if you check when she talks about Seanzie, Zenon calls him town without saying why, then in the big wall post with anime gifs, she outs a hedging read on Seanzie voicing concern on him but still townreading, then on day 2 she declares that she no longer townreads Seanzie without saying why (I know why, Seanzie was suspecting her and she just OMGUS), She parked on Seanzie until we started talking about eliminating Robyn and Rem, then she appealed to Seanzie about to killing Rem, then Seanzie scum reads he and she actually appeals to him as if she knew Seanzie was town and then we know the rest.
Another example is myself, she had me in her townreads all game except today. She townread me more being uncooperative with Seanzie (even though she said it was my indignation) when he asked me why I was suspecting Epignosis and another player I dont remember now, then that she still townread me but that she was concerned about my derp being fake, then she voted Tutuu to save me from elimination, on day 2 she continued to townread me, then voted me to tie me with Rem (because she liked Rem more than me), then she dropped it and went for Seanzie, then Epignosis all in an attempt to save her townreads that she had no in game justification for, again, we know what happened at the end.
She has played very uncooperatively when prompted to show us her minset about her reads on people, specially Rem, then she just kills Rem.
I assume you also didn't want to vote for a civ?Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:50 pmI don't vote for myself. I find it antithetical to the spirit of the game.pyxxy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:49 pm I think what I'm having trouble squaring is
- if Epi flips scum, then I always chop Zenon next
- but if Epi flips town, nothing feels clarified about Zenon?
hmmm
- well, if Zenon flips scum, then I want to chop Epi next for potential theater but idk if that's really right
- if Zenon flips town, I think maybe I can townread Epi? because why would scum knowingly suicide
but that's my whole Epi read in general, it's technically WIFOM but like, why vote off
oh, well, wait a second
@Epignosis why didn't you self-vote instead of voting Zenon at EOD yesterday, to confirm your own death?
Yep that makes sense.Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:50 pmI don't vote for myself. I find it antithetical to the spirit of the game.pyxxy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:49 pm I think what I'm having trouble squaring is
- if Epi flips scum, then I always chop Zenon next
- but if Epi flips town, nothing feels clarified about Zenon?
hmmm
- well, if Zenon flips scum, then I want to chop Epi next for potential theater but idk if that's really right
- if Zenon flips town, I think maybe I can townread Epi? because why would scum knowingly suicide
but that's my whole Epi read in general, it's technically WIFOM but like, why vote off
oh, well, wait a second
@Epignosis why didn't you self-vote instead of voting Zenon at EOD yesterday, to confirm your own death?
I have to learn to trust my own shit.Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 7:53 pm This particular post warrants scrutiny:
I am curious as to how tutuu and I were "pocketing" each other.Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 3:01 pm [VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine
Im down with putting some pressure there.
Cape90 did suspect Zenon early and Epi voiced a suspicion on Zenon as well but chainsawed Cape90 for suspecting Zenon which is a very wtf moment.
I also thought that there was a wolf in Tutuu/Epi for the way they were pocketing each other yesterday but Tutuu's w/w reads were sooo non-sensical that i thought it couldnt possibly come from town and kinda forgot about Epi.
tutuu expressed a firm view of me as a civilian and was revealed to be a civilian.
I had my doubts about tutuu and expressed them, even voting tutuu at one point.
What are these signs that you are seeing "more of?" This implies that you are examining me and have found new evidence in the thread that I tried super hard lynch Cape90, failed at my task, went back into my chat with my tail between my legs and told my team, "You know what guys? I just couldn't get the job done today. We now have no choice this Night 1 but to kill Cape90. It's the only way."Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 3:01 pmBut Im seeing more signs that Epi could be a wolf here whom tried to misexe Cape90 and since he couldnt, he just had to kill him.
Anybody who knows anything about me knows that's a knee slapper right there.
But that's not important. What's important is how this opinion can even exist if in fact Guillotine is a civilian. Behold:
We know tutuu is good.Spoiler: show
The perspective in question here is that I'm mafia who tried to get Cape90 lynched and failed miserably.
If this is the case, and Guillotine is not mafia, then wouldn't I be equally satisfied (if not more satisfied) that two civilians were tied at the end of Day 1?
That's money right there. The gravy is that Cape90 voted tutuu, not Guillotine. Cape90 wouldn't be in my top five names to kill Night 1.
But again, the important takeaway is that, rather than say I'm mafia for being satisfied that two civilians are tied Day 1 and stayed on the sidelines by leaving my vote on Seanzie, Guillotine's interpretation is that I sucked at getting Cape90 lynched.
This is not an honest perspective. This do be a doo-doo take.
My vote was on Seanzie.Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 3:01 pm I understand that he allegedly townread both Tutuu and I and that is his alibi for staying on Cape90 at EoD1, but the more i read his ISO the more the pieces fit if he is scum with either Zenon.
Therefore I'm left wondering how you can honestly think I required an alibi for staying on Cape90.
Circling back to the initial part of the post and considering my own reservations regarding Zenon (not to mention they are both voting me), I am looking forward to these thrilling developments.
[VOTE: Guillotine] aubergine
If I was scum in Zenon position, I wouldn't be defending my teammate and risk associating them with me.
I don't recall who was in the running other than Rem. Saw I had the most votes and decided to give the people what they wanted. It was happenstance that Zenon voted Rem at the same time and put Rem over instead of me.Kate wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:51 pmI assume you also didn't want to vote for a civ?Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:50 pmI don't vote for myself. I find it antithetical to the spirit of the game.pyxxy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:49 pm I think what I'm having trouble squaring is
- if Epi flips scum, then I always chop Zenon next
- but if Epi flips town, nothing feels clarified about Zenon?
hmmm
- well, if Zenon flips scum, then I want to chop Epi next for potential theater but idk if that's really right
- if Zenon flips town, I think maybe I can townread Epi? because why would scum knowingly suicide
but that's my whole Epi read in general, it's technically WIFOM but like, why vote off
oh, well, wait a second
@Epignosis why didn't you self-vote instead of voting Zenon at EOD yesterday, to confirm your own death?
(I don't actually look bad because I tried to kill Guillo D1 and the chop got prevented by Zenon who was trying to prevent a rand but caused a rand by accident)