Re: Anniversary Game 1 - Classic Syndicate [Night 3]
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 2:55 pm
Murder, Mayhem, and Mafia
https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/
Okay, I can see your point, esp about the vote being the only real town weapon. But, how can you be sure you are following the right wagon/person?Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:24 pmI hear you- I find it very difficult to ever have a mindset of sheeping, but as devils advocate, I can say sheeping can be both lazy and productive. If you are feeling not confident in your reads, and do have trust in a civ player that is taking charge, perhaps it’s not a terrible idea to just vote there. Lazy? Yes. But an uninformed faith vote is more productive than a vanity vote for a 3rd wagon that means nothing in a game where town’s only real weapon is the vote.Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:16 pmFirst of all, sheeping is a new term to me. When I was told what it meant, it sounded to me like lazy play. "Oh, I trust so-and-so, so I'm going to go and vote who they vote." So early in the game, that is ridiculous. Unless you have civvie BTSC with that person you trust, you cannot know for sure if the person you are trusting is civ. A few days into the game, and it is still risky. Late in the game, even if you have info on a person, it still LOOKS like bad behavior, like you are just being lazy and jumping on a train, even if the train just has an engine and a caboose and you are the caboose. Like I said in my first posts about this, I think all players should read the thread and make up their own minds. It's okay to agree with someone and vote like they do, we all do that all the time. You agree with them because you read and accessed the situation yourself. But to blindly follow someone's vote just because you think you can trust them is silly and lazy. No one would have gotten away with that back in the day and they shouldn't now.
Only in that if I haven’t been following along and previously trusted a player or two, follow the leads of those player might be the best move you’ve got.Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:03 pmOkay, I can see your point, esp about the vote being the only real town weapon. But, how can you be sure you are following the right wagon/person?Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:24 pmI hear you- I find it very difficult to ever have a mindset of sheeping, but as devils advocate, I can say sheeping can be both lazy and productive. If you are feeling not confident in your reads, and do have trust in a civ player that is taking charge, perhaps it’s not a terrible idea to just vote there. Lazy? Yes. But an uninformed faith vote is more productive than a vanity vote for a 3rd wagon that means nothing in a game where town’s only real weapon is the vote.Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:16 pmFirst of all, sheeping is a new term to me. When I was told what it meant, it sounded to me like lazy play. "Oh, I trust so-and-so, so I'm going to go and vote who they vote." So early in the game, that is ridiculous. Unless you have civvie BTSC with that person you trust, you cannot know for sure if the person you are trusting is civ. A few days into the game, and it is still risky. Late in the game, even if you have info on a person, it still LOOKS like bad behavior, like you are just being lazy and jumping on a train, even if the train just has an engine and a caboose and you are the caboose. Like I said in my first posts about this, I think all players should read the thread and make up their own minds. It's okay to agree with someone and vote like they do, we all do that all the time. You agree with them because you read and accessed the situation yourself. But to blindly follow someone's vote just because you think you can trust them is silly and lazy. No one would have gotten away with that back in the day and they shouldn't now.
It's a weird interaction between these two, actually. It's really not the angle most of the game was looking at, and they seem to feel a bit too safe in this bubble where they push each other. DFara openly admits to not reading the reasons behind the wagons, but somehow finds Michelle interesting enough to read. Maybe he was just reading whoever was pushing him, but then he'd have had to read the thread?DFaraday wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:50 pm I don't suspect either G-Man or Sloonei, and I won't be able to read the cases on them before the vote closes, so I will go ahead and move my vote to Michelle, on the grounds that I feel less town about her than anyone else really. As in, nothing has stood out as civ.
Why shouldn‘t I ?
Your post before this one made it seem as though you were operating with the mindset that both of yesterday’s wagons were mafia. Maybe I misread.
Who on GMan’s wagon do you think is bad, if any?
This is correctScotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:09 pmOnly in that if I haven’t been following along and previously trusted a player or two, follow the leads of those player might be the best move you’ve got.Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:03 pmOkay, I can see your point, esp about the vote being the only real town weapon. But, how can you be sure you are following the right wagon/person?Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:24 pmI hear you- I find it very difficult to ever have a mindset of sheeping, but as devils advocate, I can say sheeping can be both lazy and productive. If you are feeling not confident in your reads, and do have trust in a civ player that is taking charge, perhaps it’s not a terrible idea to just vote there. Lazy? Yes. But an uninformed faith vote is more productive than a vanity vote for a 3rd wagon that means nothing in a game where town’s only real weapon is the vote.Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:16 pmFirst of all, sheeping is a new term to me. When I was told what it meant, it sounded to me like lazy play. "Oh, I trust so-and-so, so I'm going to go and vote who they vote." So early in the game, that is ridiculous. Unless you have civvie BTSC with that person you trust, you cannot know for sure if the person you are trusting is civ. A few days into the game, and it is still risky. Late in the game, even if you have info on a person, it still LOOKS like bad behavior, like you are just being lazy and jumping on a train, even if the train just has an engine and a caboose and you are the caboose. Like I said in my first posts about this, I think all players should read the thread and make up their own minds. It's okay to agree with someone and vote like they do, we all do that all the time. You agree with them because you read and accessed the situation yourself. But to blindly follow someone's vote just because you think you can trust them is silly and lazy. No one would have gotten away with that back in the day and they shouldn't now.
Lazy -and- productive
I think viv means let’s talk about people in our POE we think are good so that maybe mafia kills them tonite, to shore up the pool
I wish I know
Can someone explain this strategy to me a little more in depth and more clearly?
Yeah, ^^ this. Not seeing how this is a good thing as I understand it.Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:29 pmCan someone explain this strategy to me a little more in depth and more clearly?
POE = Process of EliminationElohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:29 pmCan someone explain this strategy to me a little more in depth and more clearly?
Okay so, (and I’ll say I don’t agree with it or think it’ll work anyway) but this is the scenario.Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:29 pmCan someone explain this strategy to me a little more in depth and more clearly?
But they'd still be getting a civ targeted bc the mafia isn't going to kill one of their own. I don't get how this makes any sense.sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:39 pmOkay so, (and I’ll say I don’t agree with it or think it’ll work anyway) but this is the scenario.Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:29 pmCan someone explain this strategy to me a little more in depth and more clearly?
You basically hard core town clear your iffy town reads/null reads in the hopes mafia will say “player X is in the town core lets kill them” while in reality you suspected them. At least after thinking about it I’m pretty sure that’s what he means.
Now I don’t think this’ll work and I think it makes town players seem disingenuous/easier to flip flop BUT it’s really a cultural thing I’d say.
My thoughts exactly. I thought I HAD to be missing something. This doesn't help me see Vivax in a better light.Kate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:50 pmBut they'd still be getting a civ targeted bc the mafia isn't going to kill one of their own. I don't get how this makes any sense.sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:39 pmOkay so, (and I’ll say I don’t agree with it or think it’ll work anyway) but this is the scenario.Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:29 pmCan someone explain this strategy to me a little more in depth and more clearly?
You basically hard core town clear your iffy town reads/null reads in the hopes mafia will say “player X is in the town core lets kill them” while in reality you suspected them. At least after thinking about it I’m pretty sure that’s what he means.
Now I don’t think this’ll work and I think it makes town players seem disingenuous/easier to flip flop BUT it’s really a cultural thing I’d say.
Distracted. Close then suprise open shift at work after missing a doc apt on what was supposed to be my day off. Rush ti catch up. Frantic about missing the vote. Wild mistakes all around.
It really is aweful in lue of the flip. I get where ya'll are coming from. Had it been another person, I'd be thinking right like you. All I can say is, rl has not been kind to me and it has most definately affected my game play.
I was confused in the catching up to vote only cuz I couldnt locate the post in which you switched. My read on you is important to me as well. I could only read the thread. i thought I was missing something. Wasnt able to ISO your posts at that time and was full on panicing about missing a vote.S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:23 amBecause she can suspect more than one person?
My thoughts have clarified since my first post. I came in not being able to slot Golfen or Sloonei into a civ slot. Since then I feel better about Golden. I feel worse about Sloonei.
The voting was all over the place early on. When someone else voted for Sloonei, maybe Scotty or Vivax, not sure which, so I decided if a strong second train was to form I’d rather have it form on someone I suspected than on any of the others that already had votes. So either way someone I suspected got lynched. Which is what happened.
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:15 amI updated the front page to include a link for yours in the players list (next to DH).
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:15 am Addendum to the post about why G Mans bad team wouldn’t try to lynch someone else.
This is driving me nuts. I’m trying to figure out why a bad team wouldn’t try to start a third wagon if both Sloon and G were bad, or try harder to pile on Sloonei if only G was bad.
Maybe he was alone, or only had one teammate there? Like others were low posters or had time zone issues?
Because I’ve been playing Mafia a long time and have never seen a baddie with an alternative train do … nothing. I’m spitballing about maybe low posters etc because I just don’t understand Gs behavior
And if we lynch bea tomorrow and she flips civ, then what?
Seems being the important word here. Just because it looks bad doesnt mean it is. At this point lynching me is lynching a civ that played like shit. But a civ nonetheless.
Svs's commentary on my baddie meta. Not sure that I agree with it. I hadnt had a problem chucking baddie teammates under the bus during a wagon on them since like my early rev/hv days. But ya know, the wifom. I dont think this makes svs bad, but I do think she has an idealized "bea" that may not exist in the ways she remembers.Bea is an awesome bad teammate to have. She is loyal to a fault. This is bad or good; good Bea is one of the few people I know who really thinks of the civs as a team, just like the baddies.
Bea would take a chance to save a teammate, yeah.
I thought I answered? D1 I had no idea what was going on till DF also posted and it started to get put together in the thread.Golden wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:43 pmI did not, even once, say you weren’t cursed. I just said that accusing me of being the curser when it was clearly self-inflicted (ie, a punishment… still a curse), stood out to me.sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:10 pmNope. I assumed the Vomp role cursed me as was the running theory last time I checked in.Golden wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:35 amNot trying to do a DH here, but basically everything you claim I was doing is contradicted by what actually happened.sig wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:39 pm Random initial thoughts
Major pings for the people who voted/advocates for my lynch when I was cursed and extra eyes for golden trying to nitpick verbiage on me saying cursed.
I’m never going to be super active if I’m cursed since frankly it seems like a waste of time and the majority of people don’t bother to read those posts. It’s just clutter.
So I wrote a giant thing here about how the hosts wouldn’t do that blah blah blah then read this
SO this makes it even more boggling that Golden would attempt to vote for me and cast shade my way? Like it was pretty clear I wasn’t active jumped in day 3 and was posting. Nobody bothered to call this out for me (especially the people who caught it or were suspecting me should’ve) if anything this actually makes me feel worse about Golden then when I was just reading as I went and thought he was speculating.
And piggybacking on that I’d almost 100% clear Bea and DF for the time being based ONLY off the fact they didn’t vote. I think someone on the mafia team would’ve read that and ensured everyone voted to avoid that.
It seems like he was just trying to find an easy vote/start a counter wagon and that didn’t work so he hopped back into another wagon.
SVS is rewriting my faith in DH slot the main issue I had was the self vote which is why I parked myself their initially.
I never pressed for a vote for you. I pressure voted you to get your head out if your arse and get you to post cursed. It was evident it failed. Waking up to Douche votes on Yu was an unexpected shock. Your ‘noone reads cursed posts’ is weak, and an easy place for mafia to hide, and you don’t get to avoid that scrutiny. Bea managed to contribute, so can you.
But when I actually had time to read some things and read your iso, it looked decent.
There was no grand plan to lead some wagon on you. I even said today based on my availability I was more likely to sheep.
And I didn’t make semantic arguments. I didn’t know whether you’d know why you were cursed. I just asked people whether they thought your knowledge of it was alignment indicative.
Now, a question for you - very basic one. Did you know why you were cursed?
And it kinda is a semantic argument if you’re saying I wasn’t “cursed” but punished like it’s still a curse.
Also I’ll go to my grave saying this you can’t be a productive player in thread if your cursed with anything. And trying to be so shouldn’t give you civ points if anything it’s more scummy then just dipping
I thought I’d learn something by you responding to my question but ultimately I realise it’s all wifom… I’m still interested in Beas answer to my question on the subject.
You are not mis-seeing town bea. I am however admittedly playing a crap game. Due to lack of practice and rl. Am also loosing my day off today to go close a store and back to work again tomorrow morning. These are the exact reasons I reitred in the first place. It wasnt suppsed to be like that, but here we are and lots changed in my world between sign ups and the start of the game.Golden wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:44 pmOh I really do have to sheep Kate and svs on Beas meta, as previously discussed I think I’m inclined towards always seeing town bea.sig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:17 pmThis is pretty damning my only issue with Bea is her lack of voting and curse the following day. I’d think the mafia would be more on top of that? Of course that could also serve as a good strategy for a one day pass BUT she wasn’t being suspected then anyway.Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:13 pmThis is exactly my thought.Kate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:50 amI don't. She's got her kid gloves on in a sense, when it comes to Bea, but bea is looking more and more bad to me and svs noticed that right away. If she were bad, I believe she'd shy away from accusing bea at all. Also, she can read me like a newspaper, and I've never seen a bad svs defend a civ me as well as she has here.Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:38 amYes, this makes sense. Thinking back on g-man's play, it seems like he was doing just enough to try to get by trying to look civ without rocking the boat too much to gain suspicion. As if he were going it pretty much alone and trying to hold it all together. This doesn't help alleviate my gut suspicion of DH, now SVS. And neither does SVS' lack of voting Gman. I don't know why I can't shake it. Does ANYone else feel the same way?S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:15 am Addendum to the post about why G Mans bad team wouldn’t try to lynch someone else.
This is driving me nuts. I’m trying to figure out why a bad team wouldn’t try to start a third wagon if both Sloon and G were bad, or try harder to pile on Sloonei if only G was bad.
Maybe he was alone, or only had one teammate there? Like others were low posters or had time zone issues?
Because I’ve been playing Mafia a long time and have never seen a baddie with an alternative train do … nothing. I’m spitballing about maybe low posters etc because I just don’t understand Gs behavior there.
In a world where Sloonei is civ, bea voting not only to tie the game with a self-professed poor read on the game at large, but to potentially save GMan is a double red flag.
This is responding to Viv’s comment that a civ should never be fine getting miselimmed, which is what GMan was doing.
Then, 20 minutes later:Nothing in that progression makes sense. Does a civ bea have to make sense? No, but I’d expect a better explanation for doing 2 nakedly hedgey and scummy things.
bea is mafia for these actions alone.
I don’t really recall Bea’s neta so I’m a bit worried this may be another Lorab style vote so if any older players could chime in I’d appreciate it
@Kate @Golden @S~V~S
I don't see the point and I agree the mafia doesn't care. I've said this a handful of times and I will say it again. This is supposed to be played like an old-school mafia game. These new strategies and plays being suggested for us to incorporate into our game are annoying me. We are here to experience a game like we USED to play, not learn how new mafia players play.Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:19 pm The premise is that it's theoretically better for the mafia team to target a player we're less certain about than one who is universally cleared. Gives us one less player to solve.
That's if we suppose the strategy actually works. I don't think most mafia teams would care too much about last-minute POE discussions when choosing their kill target.
I am going to detach from this, and follow the town here. I already made my case and gave my opinion and it stands. If I am wrong, next time I see you I'll buy dinner. Meet the new career, worse than the old career; I don't know. Familiarity isn't always good that way.bea wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:36 pm Right now, kinda paranoid by people who keep giving me a pass wich is also weird. Quinn maybe? Michelle maybe? Both need more reading as to why from my end and I dont have time to give it at the moment. I am trying and failing. This was, AGAIN, suppsed to be a tonight activity that doesnt get to happen.
Yo, play how you want to play!Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:39 pmI don't see the point and I agree the mafia doesn't care. I've said this a handful of times and I will say it again. This is supposed to be played like an old-school mafia game. These new strategies and plays being suggested for us to incorporate into our game are annoying me. We are here to experience a game like we USED to play, not learn how new mafia players play.Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:19 pm The premise is that it's theoretically better for the mafia team to target a player we're less certain about than one who is universally cleared. Gives us one less player to solve.
That's if we suppose the strategy actually works. I don't think most mafia teams would care too much about last-minute POE discussions when choosing their kill target.