The Syndicate

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:49 pm Epi soft locked as town imo

nice pocket nanook

I hard claim miller too by the way. Not a joke claim. I'm serious.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:04 am

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:02 am nanook i think the phrase you’re looking for is “town lean”

It’s considerably stronger

To rephrase....

I saw town indicative behavior from Epi. Epi is good enough to fake that behavior over a short amount of time. If he’s town, the behavior will continue. If he’s mafia, it won’t. So, he’s probably clear, but not 100% clear. Thus, soft locked

What makes you think Epi isn't good enough to fake that behavior over a longer period of time?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:02 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:01 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:49 pm Epi soft locked as town imo

nice pocket nanook

Did this last game too

I skimmed over your ISO last game (ctrl+f'd "epi" and "lock") and found nothing. Can you point me to the post?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:12 am @TonyStarkPrime

I'm sick of watching you suffer tragic losses. If you're a civilian, please do me a favor and make it as plain to me as possible. You don't have to play at the level of Game 7 if you don't have that in you right now, but please try to show me those goods. I think you're reasonably readable as long as you want to be.

Has TSP done anything to make you react like this?

This post confuses me greatliy

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:08 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:07 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:02 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:01 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:49 pm Epi soft locked as town imo

nice pocket nanook

Did this last game too

I skimmed over your ISO last game (ctrl+f'd "epi" and "lock") and found nothing. Can you point me to the post?

Idk somewhere D1 I think, search for Epi

no relevant posts show up, I really can't find it

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:10 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:09 am Nanook, whaddya like about Funnygurl?

Loose feeling entrance, scum are maybe a bit less likely to jokingly claim miller imo

She does this every game regardless of alignment. I've played a few games with her and I think she's null.

Wisp's push on nanook is really bad and JJJ's #269 and #270 are really bad.

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:30 am Fwiw I have a couple real reads

And will otherwise be playing entirely to have fun cause I’ve had too many less than fun games recently and I refuse to be made to take this one seriously until, like, D4

Put me in the towncore and I’ll sheep

If I hadn't just finished the Space Invaders game with you I'd have voted you for this

Having fun is good but potatoing for the first three days hurts town and I ask you not to have your fun at the expense of others. Unless you're scum in which case potato away

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:19 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:16 am Wisp's push on nanook is really bad and JJJ's #269 and #270 are really bad.

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

elaborate?

It's unclear to me why Wisp is pushing nanook for not doing anything when plenty of other people haven't done anything either and it's well within standard nanook behavior to not do much, in the first ten pages of the game especially. Also even if you disregard that, nanook stating a soft lock town on Epi was probably more content than many other people in the game anyway.

#269 and #270 had really high levels of "look at me, I'm so town!" energy, which I generally associate with mafia. This is because mafia tends to be much more concerned with how they look to the rest of the town than a townie, and will be actively trying to make themselves look as town as possible. Of course town also has an incentive to try to appear as townie as possible but I think crafting a post specifically to try to exude that kind of energy is >rand mafia. The random jab at funnygurl felt really out of place as well.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:23 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:19 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:30 am Fwiw I have a couple real reads

And will otherwise be playing entirely to have fun cause I’ve had too many less than fun games recently and I refuse to be made to take this one seriously until, like, D4

Put me in the towncore and I’ll sheep

If I hadn't just finished the Space Invaders game with you I'd have voted you for this

Having fun is good but potatoing for the first three days hurts town and I ask you not to have your fun at the expense of others. Unless you're scum in which case potato away

Ok, how have I potatoed

I have the start of a good towncore this game

Last game I was on scum literally every day I was alive

So throw insults if you want but I’m still good at the game, I just approach it differently

I don't think you've potato'd actually, you've generated content so far and I'm fine with your play up til now. I actually said that Wisp's push on you for not doing much was bad for that reason. But then you said you were just going to sheep if someone put you in a towncore which indicates to me a lack of desire to continue generating content which was what made me said that. If that wasn't what you meant then fine.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:25 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:16 am Wisp's push on nanook is really bad and JJJ's #269 and #270 are really bad.

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

I disagree, I don't see what you find objectionable in Jay's posts. It looks like standard Jay from where I'm sitting. I'm not saying it should give him a civ pass, but I don't understand where you are coming from. Please explain.

I already explained, see above.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:25 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:23 am #269 and #270 had really high levels of "look at me, I'm so town!" energy, which I generally associate with mafia. This is because mafia tends to be much more concerned with how they look to the rest of the town than a townie, and will be actively trying to make themselves look as town as possible. Of course town also has an incentive to try to appear as townie as possible but I think crafting a post specifically to try to exude that kind of energy is >rand mafia. The random jab at funnygurl felt really out of place as well.

Welcome to the JaggedJimmyJay Experience.

First stop: eliminating half the game from the suspect pool by the end of Day 1.

Next stop: sweet civilian victory

I don't give a shit about "appearances". I am completely serious. If you're a civilian then get the hell out of my POE pool please.

This post doesn't do anything to change my read sorry

So the thing is that when you say you'll sheep, that is generally interpreted as "blindly following someone's reads", and by extension the opposite of "judging others on their content"

huh I guess two people have spoken up and say this is just Jay's meta. Fine.

[VOTE: Wisp] aubergine

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:33 am meh, nanook actually is probably >rand town for getting upset at people saying he isnt doing stuff. i feel ~somewhat okay with this read at least for now

and im reluctant to go here because of how dominant a scum performance i just saw from alison but she actually already vibes differently to me than space invaders. i feel... eh about this read rn but it’s something maybe

Some people have told me that my tone varies wildly from game to game and others have told me that my tone is completely static and unreadable regardless of alignment. It's very strange.

Also I think that's a good point about nanook

The paranoia from Hally is probably towny? I was under suspicion for most of that game and slipped in my second post so I'm surprised to see Hally that paranoid, but I see she townread me in dead chat so maybe it's because of that.

omg I'm sorry I messed up your pronouns. I deeply apologize and didn't mean to misgender you Hally ><

and thanks for complimenting my play!

no worries! You're one of my favorite people to play with so I was worried, I'm glad everything is okay!

nanook. Still making up my mind about you.

Why Tony?

Is there a specific reason why you don't think Tony would fake claim Miller after Hally made her claim, or is it a general gut feeling of "I don't think Tony makes that play here as scum"?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:14 am Alison has a 23 posts to 0 instances of the word "pure" ratio.

There's a civilian right there.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:33 am I think she’s townreading me now!

yep

Wisp wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:57 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:23 am

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:19 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:16 am Wisp's push on nanook is really bad and JJJ's #269 and #270 are really bad.

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

elaborate?

It's unclear to me why Wisp is pushing nanook for not doing anything when plenty of other people haven't done anything either and it's well within standard nanook behavior to not do much, in the first ten pages of the game especially. Also even if you disregard that, nanook stating a soft lock town on Epi was probably more content than many other people in the game anyway.

#269 and #270 had really high levels of "look at me, I'm so town!" energy, which I generally associate with mafia. This is because mafia tends to be much more concerned with how they look to the rest of the town than a townie, and will be actively trying to make themselves look as town as possible. Of course town also has an incentive to try to appear as townie as possible but I think crafting a post specifically to try to exude that kind of energy is >rand mafia. The random jab at funnygurl felt really out of place as well.

sure just let me vote everyone I guess
you arguing that, many others are doing the same thing, is more of a discredit than an arguement
I know exactly what Nanook is capable of, as both alignments, I guess we can argue his behavior is still pretty NAI, but I don't want to

I'm not saying vote everyone, I'm saying "if you believe effort put into the game in the first 10 pages is alignment-indicative, then nanook is probably the worst person to use this tell on, because he's the one who it's most not-alignment-indicative of".

Like what you did was you said (or implied, at least) that "people who don't put in effort are scum". And then you voted the guy who always jokes around for the first few pages... who isn't even the slankiest player in the thread. It makes no sense to me and looks like you're just finding a reason to pick on nanook.

Wisp wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:14 am JAgged's read on me doesnt feel like something he made up
Personally, he is not someone who I would argue is a good lynch day 1, and anything against him right now just feels a bit nitpicky
Me and him will most likely be top posting by the end of day 1, and I am not interested in this slot in the slightest as long as his progressions feel natural

This post is nonsensical. Players in and of themselves can't be bad lynches D1 - if they're mafia they're definitely a good lynch D1. Barring some extremely weird meta concerns, it's very difficult for me to see how JJJ can always be a bad lynch Day 1 regardless of alignment. I also don't understand how "top posting" has anything to do with alignment. Top posters D1 in the Space Invader game were proto/Alison/Mac and two of those players were scum.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:28 am Look, I get it, it’s frustrating when I can look at you and go “yeah that’s town, next,” we all want to think our scum games are too good to be read that quickly. The fact is I do have that read on you and you are town, so I suggest instead of bitching about my awesomeness you get on board the hype train cause we’re halfway to the North Pole already

why did you make this post nanook

Wisp wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:32 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:01 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:49 pm Epi soft locked as town imo

nice pocket nanook

so my push in Nanook is bad?
but this is nice pocket from Nanook, which definitely doesn't insinuate a town lean

you talk about other people looking worse than Nanook, but then you vote Jagged, when people like Funnygirl have terrible early games isos

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

@JaggedJimmyJay
leaving Funnygirl on the back burner for now
I want Alison to respond to my posts

I see nothing wrong with Funnygurl's posts. She has this entrance literally every game and you can go and look at her past games if you don't believe me.

Also yes I was suspicious of that post but nanook later cleared it up by:

- Saying that he did it in a game where he was town (I couldn't find the post where he did this to Epi specifically, but I do remember him throwing out a bunch of reads and clearing people after talking to them for a bit)

- And if that isn't enough, saying that the read is short-term and that it will either confirm Epi to be town if he continues it, or mafia if he discontinues it. This suggests that he is prepared to explain his read more clearly later on in the game.

The basis of suspecting nanook throwing out an early "Epi is town" for no real reason is because it looks a lot like nanook just wants Epi to trust him and think favorably of him by giving him towncred. But if nanook is willing to demonstrate that he does this as town, as well as explain the basis behind his read (even if he only does it later on), that assuages a lot of my concerns about the read and moves it closer to a normal read with proper explanation and reasoning, which is obviously not very suspicious.

Wisp wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:47 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:43 am

Wisp wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:14 am JAgged's read on me doesnt feel like something he made up
Personally, he is not someone who I would argue is a good lynch day 1, and anything against him right now just feels a bit nitpicky
Me and him will most likely be top posting by the end of day 1, and I am not interested in this slot in the slightest as long as his progressions feel natural

This post is nonsensical. Players in and of themselves can't be bad lynches D1 - if they're mafia they're definitely a good lynch D1. Barring some extremely weird meta concerns, it's very difficult for me to see how JJJ can always be a bad lynch Day 1 regardless of alignment. I also don't understand how "top posting" has anything to do with alignment. Top posters D1 in the Space Invader game were proto/Alison/Mac and two of those players were scum.

lmao I get this same argument every game, I swear to god
if you want to look for every possible malicious act in every god damn post, you do you
I'm not seeing anything from Jagged yet that makes me squint.

and if what you said it true, those 3 people probably weren't getting lynched day 1 regardless?

Not seeing anything from Jagged that makes you sus of him is fine. "Jagged isn't a good lynch D1", "any attack against Jagged is nitpicky", and "I am not interested in [Jagged] in the slightest" feels like you have him down as a fairly confident townread though.

I have no doubt that nanook is capable of NAI'ing it up D1 as scum. Not sure how that is a response to anything I've said so far.

JJJ what do you think of Wisp's opinion about you?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:12 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:08 pm JJJ what do you think of Wisp's opinion about you?

I’m unsurprised. Wisp and I just teamed up for a historic town obliteration in the champs tournament (game 6), and it lends itself to the development of confidence in this game. I’d be perturbed to see the opposite read.

I believe Wisp is a civilian at this point.

I see. I was wondering why you didn't suspect that you could be pocketed.

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:29 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:14 am Alison has a 23 posts to 0 instances of the word "pure" ratio.

There's a civilian right there.

sorry, wdym?

Epi is joking.

proto came up with a really strong "Alison only uses the word pure when she's mafia" tell out of the blue in Space Invaders, and he was referencing that.

I guess FG is scum after all

[VOTE: funnygurl] aubergine

1) ISOing JJJ for no reason with no strong conclusion makes me think it was a timewaster designed to generate fake content

2) Townreading me for mindmelding with her when she's seen me pocket people by mindmelding with them as scum on a couple of occasions now

3) Horrible shade throw on Hally's reads list

If I had a 1-shot dayvig I would use it on FG right now with no hesitation

or maybe wait a couple of pages for her to spew her partners and then do it

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:16 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:11 pm 1) ISOing JJJ for no reason with no strong conclusion makes me think it was a timewaster designed to generate fake content

2) Townreading me for mindmelding with her when she's seen me pocket people by mindmelding with them as scum on a couple of occasions now

3) Horrible shade throw on Hally's reads list

number 2 is not really a valid point because she was agreeing with you, not the other way around. you cant be pocketing her in that case

as for the other two, eh. i dont think she was throwing shade at me really and idc about her iso

That is exactly how I pocketed proto in the Space Invaders game. I made posts I knew he would agree with and then he came in afterwards and trusted me because he agreed with everything I said. If I can pocket someone I've never played a game with this way then I can definitely pocket someone who I've known for over a year this way.

Why are you trying to defend FG rather than letting her speak for herself?

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:21 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:18 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:16 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:11 pm 1) ISOing JJJ for no reason with no strong conclusion makes me think it was a timewaster designed to generate fake content

2) Townreading me for mindmelding with her when she's seen me pocket people by mindmelding with them as scum on a couple of occasions now

3) Horrible shade throw on Hally's reads list

number 2 is not really a valid point because she was agreeing with you, not the other way around. you cant be pocketing her in that case

as for the other two, eh. i dont think she was throwing shade at me really and idc about her iso

That is exactly how I pocketed proto in the Space Invaders game. I made posts I knew he would agree with and then he came in afterwards and trusted me because he agreed with everything I said. If I can pocket someone I've never played a game with this way then I can definitely pocket someone who I've known for over a year this way.

Why are you trying to defend FG rather than letting her speak for herself?

how would you know she’d agree with you before she even said anything though?

and idk, i just think you’re jumping the gun and should let her ease into things more before being all “id murder fg on the spot rn.” but ill leave you to it

Because I've known her for over a year. I pocketed proto because I knew what kind of person he was and how he would react to certain posts. I know FG better than I know proto.

Why do you want me to let FG ease into things more? If she's scum she should be under pressure. If she's not scum, that will show in her responses to my pressure. That is in fact the whole reason players apply pressure to people they find suspicious, because it helps them sort their alignment and also helps them convince other townies to lynch that player if need be.

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:20 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:19 pm

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:12 pm r u townreading most of the game then

yup! already said this is how i always sort early on

oh ok. u do u. i got my eye on u tho

Why do you have your eye on her? Do you think Hally was lying when she said townreading a lot of people is how she usually sorts them?

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:28 pm do you actually expect that fg would enter a game and see you post a take she agrees with before she herself has said anything and go “alison must have said this thing specifically to pocket me, i cant town read her now”? that doesnt feel like a reasonable expectation to me, but if you think it is based on your history with her, again i’ll leave you to it

I think FG has played with me often enough as scum to know that I frequently make logical, sensible posts that raise good points as scum, and therefore the act of saying something she agrees with is at best NAI. I don't see her going "oh, Alison is saying something that I agree with, she must be town" for the same reason it would be strange to see someone who has played with nanook go "oh, nanook seems very relaxed and carefree, he must be town".

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:32 pm i think people respond to pressure different ways and yea, some town just end up making themselves look worse through their response. by pulling out the rug from under her before she’s gotten settled, you might be setting her up to fail regardless of her alignment. thats why i said something

Nah. I saw a game recently where FG got hard bussed by her partner really early on and was sussed by half the game because of a really scummy EoD1, and she was basically impossible to lynch that game. Like there were five attempts at killing her and she talked her way out of every one.

FG doesn't just fold over and die when she's under pressure. She has game. If she's town I trust she will show that game to me.

Wisp wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:36 pm [VOTE: Funnygirl] aubergine
so we got

1. Their wall on Jagged is just busy work
2. They shade hally's list with giving their own thoughts on the players in this list

Question, if everyone is allergic to pressure, how exactly do we catch mafia?

@Epignosis
talk to me about where you stand, you are all over the place
give me 3 town leans, and 3 scum leans

are you just copying my reasons to scum read FG

Wisp wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:44 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:41 pm

Wisp wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:36 pm [VOTE: Funnygirl] aubergine
so we got

1. Their wall on Jagged is just busy work
2. They shade hally's list with giving their own thoughts on the players in this list

Question, if everyone is allergic to pressure, how exactly do we catch mafia?

@Epignosis
talk to me about where you stand, you are all over the place
give me 3 town leans, and 3 scum leans

are you just copying my reasons to scum read FG

between these posts and their earlier posts, this is a good vote
idk what else I could add on that you havent already stated

acceptable answer

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:48 pm This post exists. I do not know why this post exists.

to create the impression of doing things while actually doing nothing

very useful technique as scum

What if Hally/FG are both wolves?

Like the interactions between them seem sort of awkward and this has been bothering me for a bit, but if I think of them as both wolves struggling to strike a balance between attacking each other too much and townreading each other too much, and having the bit of natural awkwardness that comes with most W/W interaction, it makes sense in my head. I think aggressively fakeclaiming Miller is well within Hally's scum range too.

The only problem I have is how scum!Hally figured out that there were Millers in the game to make their Miller claim believable, since it would be improbably lucky of them to just randomly claim Miller and then it turns out there really were a bunch of Millers in the game.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:02 pm Fwiw Epi jumping at everyone is fairly townie ime

haven't seen enough of scum Epi's play to know how well he can fake it but he certainly is playing very closely to how he was in Space Invaders, yes

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:08 pm I also have liked the way he has dealt with Wisp. There are numerous quotes there that I don't care to spam into this post, so go have a look if y'all want. Essentially I believe Epignosis had set the table to antagonize people I view as civilians (Nanook and Wisp) and a person I know is civilian (JJJ). Instead though he has had his pokes and landed on early civilian judgments. That supports the teamwork dynamic, and I think it looks authentic.

I don't understand this - you're saying that you think Nanook, Wisp and yourself are civillian, and that Epi is also civillian because he reads you all as civillian rather than antagonize you? Why wouldn't he do this as scum?