The Syndicate

[VOTE: Speedchuck] aubergine

Feels like music.

I will be travelling for most of the weekend, but I will try to play on phone.

I'm open to discuss the Speed lynch and others. In fact, I'm tinfoiling like mad rn because Speed's recent posting feels like civ.

But Occam is a scary and demanding lord.

I'm lowkey thinking about lynching Wilgy today

Evil role and everything

Also I love Speedchuck's tryhardness.

Then again FE just happened and Speed proved he lacks a heart. So I'm scared.

[mention]Scotty[/mention]

You're voting for Speedchuck without even knowing about his role reveal post?

You know, I feel like lynching wilgy instead.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Scum role is scum.

I believe being good as a civ requires a healthy level of hypocrisy to succeed.

I just feel bad about lynching speed with all his supatowning, so I wanna lynch Wilgy and his blatant scum role first.

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:39 am
Quin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:14 am Tell me why bob's explanation isn't good enough for you, Dom.
Because endgame in Fire Emblem wasn't Days 1-5 of this game and then Days 7-9.

I think you are being too strict, and ignoring Bob's ability to forget about FE for a while to pay attention at the day phase that basically had his name on it.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:42 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:59 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:44 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:40 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:09 pm I wouldn't call that a slip up, fwiw.
What exactly is the suspicion against him?
Distancing. I don't think you misunderstand, I just think calling it a slip is wrong. To me, a slip is what LC did. I'm kinda arguing semantics but to me there's a big difference between "behavior that indicates one may be mafia" and "slip".
Distancing from wilgy?
@insertnamehere care to respond to this?

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:19 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:11 pm My question was your answer, SVS.

We are not voting INH for the reasons he gave to lynch Wilgy.

We are voting him for the reasons he gave NOT to lynch Wilgy.
Do you disagree with my reasons? I'm sorry, it was an 11-3 split, a couple hours until EOD, and the person with three votes was someone I think is an active town. Speedchuck isn't lynchable, and I don't have time to shout Sig or Scotty's name from the rafters, and given the "strategy" I've seen on display, I doubt anyone would have gave a damn anyway.
DDL responded to this with:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:27 pm It's not like I need you to agree with the case anyway.

I gave my reasons for what I did, and I don't think it's "distancing." Apparently, some people disagree. Bully for them.

You gave reasons and a bunch of "wah wah I hate you guys I am never playing mafia again"

My reaction to this was "waste of time to keep going".

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:56 am
nijuukyugou wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:51 am Quick post (because I’m seriously doubtful I’ll be back before deadline with the day’s events here). Gonna aubergine Wilgy because of that role descriptor. Will catch up later (I’m trying to do bits by phone when I have time) when I’m on a computer.
I am curious
My role sounds much worse than his
Why no vote for me?

Are you voting for
Wilgy ONLY for the role
Description? Or why?

If only for the
Role Description you look bad
for that vote reason

I disagree.

Wilgy's sounds more like a role that would be given to mafia.

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:32 am Ok like I’m all for a Wilgy counter lynch but this is ridiculous.

Speedchuck needs to die today. Crocodile tears be damned.

Wilgy can die tomorrow. We’ve been waiting for this for 3 full cycles.

Plus, Quin will probably remove him from the poll again tomorrow so like...don’t make my skin turn green

The last point is convincing.

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

I mean seriously, the thought of not seeing Speedchuck in the poll tomorrow gives me shivers.

It is, but I was willing to lynch Wilgy first since he also has some reallt damning things about him.

sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:00 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:47 pm There's been several mafia flips.

How about we just start lynching people with fewer than several posts?
Bad plan low poster/inactive doesn't equal mafia. Why go for Wilgy over speed if you think both are bad? Walk me through this thought process.

nijuukyugou wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:51 am Quick post (because I’m seriously doubtful I’ll be back before deadline with the day’s events here). Gonna aubergine Wilgy because of that role descriptor. Will catch up later (I’m trying to do bits by phone when I have time) when I’m on a computer.
Role Description over mech outted not good. I could vote here tomorrow.

Here is the thing with the knowledge we have Speed is mafia. Nutella role and the fact we know there are two teams proves that. Also the amount of resistance to Speed's lynch means in my mind he has teammates trying to keep him alive longer and that he hopes this'll get brushed under the rug. Wilgy is nothing but a scapegoat counterwagon at this point.

Hey dude chill on the conspiracy theories. Chances are baddie speed doesn't even have ebough teammates to fill 1/3 of the Wilgy wagon.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:54 pm Epi (again) voting to save speedchuck his teammate but nobody wants to listen to me so I don't give a fuck anymore I'm voting for Wilgy.

- nobody
- speedchuck leading the poll.

Okay.

DH either you are part of the solution or part of the problem. Pick one.

There is lynching you sooner.

Day 8

Instead of Marmot.

People voted me when they should have voted you.

Some people in Pikachu even held from voting because they wanted to see you lynched

Marmot had 5 votes I think. You had 1.

Yes.

A role that kills that indiscriminately is really powerful in the hands of mafia. All you gotta do is play scummy on purpose. It's OP.

While Wilgy's role has limited power for mafia and near useless for a civ so it looks more like a role designed for mafia.

Besides, your play in your first role looked like someone trying to avoid letting it kill people.

It means it makes perfectly sense for a civ to be active in day 6 and not the rest.

“I did a thorough analysis and determined that the inverse energy cascade of people’s thoughts coupled with a two-dimensional Navier-Stokes equation shows refraining from lynching speedchuck is not the optimal answer”, said Epignosis as he also voted Dr. Wilgy.

References to fluid mechanics in mafia.

Aeronautical engineer.

I guess you also chuckle every time you read CFD being used as a mafia word?

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:59 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:52 pm Aeronautical engineer.

I guess you also chuckle every time you read CFD being used as a mafia word?
Hey me too! And yeah I do, especially since that's actually something I do at work.

Nice.

I haven't used it since I graduated, though I used a lot of it before then. I did my dissertation on CFD.

After I graduated I went to work on structures tho.

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:00 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:59 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:52 pm Aeronautical engineer.

I guess you also chuckle every time you read CFD being used as a mafia word?
Hey me too! And yeah I do, especially since that's actually something I do at work.

I feel I laughed more than I should have.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:35 pm The next challenge is the Ferris Wheel. Everyone pick another player to ride the ferris wheel with. Pick the person you most think is bad. Once someone is picked they cannot be picked again.

colonialbob

sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:18 pm Dragon D. Luffy can you give me that patented GMan vote flowchart you gave us in FE?

Maybe. Which day?

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:14 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:09 pm It's some roles. Not all roles. Some roles get randomly submitted because I suspect that it is within their nature to have some part in this setup.

Kills being randomized by the host would be something I would balk at.
I wouldn't. Use it or lose it, tbh. But this is a matter or personal opinion at this point, and what I *WOULD* balk at would be lynching people because "Maybe there was an inactive on the baddie team" in a game where we don't know if there is a protector, a blocker, both or other. AND we don't know which roles Golden might or might not choose to randomize. Which, unlike the game mechanics, is something that IS in our power to control.

Linki, it says "some roles" not which ones.Might be the kill, might not. Don't want to lynch people based on it.

It's like your role in this game is to oppose whatever the thread consensus is at the moment.

I like it.

Sprityo I'll do the thing you asked tomorrow probably

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:38 pm Should I be expected to do all the work for you Kyle? His decent reads/hunting for baddies, SVS's posts to name just two factors of many. The Chuck vote reeks of mafia involvement.

Uh, yes? If you are accusing someone of overlooking evidence, you should at very least point at what evidence they are overlooking.

Guys if you are going to cite SVS posts as evidence of Speed's alignment it means you still think Speed is bad.

Just saying.

Like DH is accusing people of voting for Speed and not listening to SVS.

Except SVS believed (and probably stilldoes) that Speed was bad.

So this logic is just stupid.

sig wrote: ↑Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:20 pm I like SVS, Epi, DDL

I don't like DH last minute switch from Wilgy to Speed with such little reasoning when he was so adamant on leaving Speed alive, very strange progression.

I would say the same about DDL, but outside of that he looks good.

Sloonie is looking very meh to me. He was a civ than mafia than back to civ and now he's leaning back into the mafia camp. I just can't decide what to think about him.

Bloober pinged me awhile back, but I can't remember why.
Lorab, Scotty, and Sprityo are all civ leans/independent.

I'll probably vote for Wilgy.

Didn't we figure out refrigerator has to be Quin? If that's the case do we believe that's a mafia role. It doesn't seem that civvie, however we have had curse roles that are held by a civ this past year.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:51 pm Please allow me to have my S~V~S moment of Atticus Finch'ing Wilgy before he gets decisively sold down the river.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:53 pm Hey why are we all on wilgy now? This thread seems just be barreling down the path of least resistance right now. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but there's not a whole lot of critical discussion going on here. What's more fun and exciting than sound critical discussion?
This is the post that I keep coming back to. This here thread's hella flighty, going after, as Sloonei says, the path of least resistance.

That's because of a strange contradiction which is occupying this game. Despite having successfully killed multiple mafia members, no one's actually acting like they know what's going on. People aren't really extrapolating things from flips. Instead, we're going with gut reads and flights of fancy. Except, of course, when an act of bizzarity like the whole Speedchuck conundrum pops up, which, to be honest, would have gotten him lynched in whatever game it happened in.

It's hard to pinpoint the root cause of this passivity and confused malaise, *COUGH*CHICKACHIKAMECHANICS*COUGH* but we can see it displayed in full force with the case against the good honorable Doctor Wilgy, who, let's be honest, is definitely gonna be lynched today.

SYNDICATE CRIME STORY

THE PEOPLE VS. DOCTOR WILGY

1. "META"

Spacedaisy's argument which more or less kicked this whole thing off centered around her belief in a simple dichotomy between the good, civilian DrWilgy, and the evil, scummy Mr. Hyde DrWilgy. Good Wilgy is zany, irrelevant, and usually actively self-sabotaging. We've all seen DrWilgy in games before, acting like some kind of madman, randomly interjecting nonsensical asides into the thread. It's what he's known for. He's a successor to the previous King of Irreverence, Vompatti. (RIP) That, according to Daisy, is the "civ" Wilgy.

Meanwhile, there ostensibly exists a second doppelganger-esque version of Wilgy which lies in wait, exhibiting such maniacal stratagems as "logic," and "effort" to stymy people into believing he's civilian, when really he's a dirty, rotten scummeister.

Basically, "weird" Wilgy = civ, and "intelligent" Wilgy = scum.

That's a pretty bullshit meta case, even by the low standards of meta cases. Assuming that this is true impugns the good Doctor's character. Who are we, who presume to know what lies in the mind of Wilgy? This is the Game of Champions, and despite a sluggish start, I'd expect everyone to bring their A-game. (Even though I myself have faltered at this due to hosting obligations.) It's a dumb, reductive, and certainly not flattering case that throws context out the window. Furthermore, and this is just my opinion, I'd rather play with a persuasive, involved, comprehensible version of Wilgy than the fountain of wackiness. Enthusiastically agreeing with this meta case seems like a way to message to Wilgy that he should be less involved in games, because people will just assume that he's, y'know, trying because he's bad, and not because he just enjoys playing.

Bleh.

2. "PREVIOUS ROLE"

As far as I can gather, and this has kinda been my pet theory from the start, roles don't actually come with a pre-defined alignment. S~V~S was the literal plague, and she's a strong civ read for me.

It seems to me that if you suspect Wilgy because of his previous role, you must also view everyone else through that lens. No cherrypicking who "it makes sense for." For me, that has too many repurcussions that contradict my views.

3. "THE SPRITYO KILL"

Really, Sloonei has been the only one beating this drum, and I have to give him credit for it. This reason's way stronger than the first two, mainly due to its reliance on facts.

FACT: Sprityo was killed Night 8 on the Pikachu Tribe after the wacky swap.

FACT: It must have been (at least) one of the following eight people - Sloonei, Kylemii, Spacedaisy, Scotty, DharmaHelper, Epignosis, Sprityo himself, or DrWilgy. (At least) one of those eight people is a moiderer.

This is where things get all subjective-y, but I've personally had more reason to suspect Daisy, Scotty, and DH than Wilgy. Interesting how they all seem to be funneling onto him today. I don't jive with Sloonei's POE reasoning, and if you suspect any of the other eight people, you don't either.

4. "DAMMIT, GOLDEN, YOU REALLY COULDN'T FIND A FRIGGIN' REPLACEMENT FOR THE GAME OF CHAMPIONS?"

This is the unescapable reality which will dictate why he'll probably be lynched today. DrWilgy has a ton of shit going on in his life currently, and cannot participate in the thread or lend to discussion very much. He popped back up during on March 21st, and has posted a couple of times since then, but overall does not seem to be stepping up his participation. Wilgy has gots to do what Wilgy has gots to do.

All that makes him an uber-easy target. No resistance, no pushback. All you have to do is sigh and go, "Wilgy, I guess," and everyone will nod their head in understanding. And that's why he's gonna be lynched today. Not because of any solid reasoning. Because he's the easiest option, the path of least resistance.

My fellow Champions, why must it be that way? Can we please all, including the poor old Doctor Wilgy, find in our hearts to try and do better than this?

Hell, lynch me for posting a large, rambling, nonsensical post passionately defending an inactive player without really providing a strong alternative! At least that's an actual reason for suspicion.

I halfway agree with everything you say, but like... why not lynching Wilgy? We have more dead scum than town, Wilgy isn't playing and all reasons for lynching him seems plausible. Feels like we gotta get this page turned before moving on.

[VOTE: Wilgy[] aubergine

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:57 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:48 am Like DH is accusing people of voting for Speed and not listening to SVS.

Except SVS believed (and probably stilldoes) that Speed was bad.

So this logic is just stupid.
Excuse me? Stupid how? Agreeing with me?

And what it the difference between "player salad" and a list of reads? Would you find it less salad-y had he done it in pretty colors descending from green to red?

Not every list of reads is a player salad. Sometimes they are a list of reads. Calling every list of reads a player salad is disingenuous. Although except for his read on me, and his "meh" on Sloonei I don't agree with sig on much. But his reads seem to be based on outdated info, and he has apparently missed some fairly big points that have been made in thread. That reads to me as "sig being sig" as opposed to "sig being kept up to date by evil teammates in a chatroom".

Accusing people of not using your logic to defend the opposite thing you were defending.

And call me disingenuous if you want. I don't like how Sig's post has a bunch of thoughts on random people then ends with "maybe I'll vote Wilgy aka the guy who currently has a million votes"

Like you say Speed was bad. DH's case on Kyle is that Kyle failed to consider your points of Speed being a civ.

Alright, [mention]sprityo[/mention] let's do it.

G-Man's Technicolor Vote Analysis.

Day 10

Spoiler: show

DDL
DH
Epi
Sloonei
Scotty
Sig
INH
Speed
sprityo
Epi
Dom
Quin
DDL
DH
Lorab
Speed
Blooper
Kyle
DDL
SV
DH
Bob
Boomslang

KEY

Speed - Green
Wilgy - Orange
Other - White

Eh I don't know what to conclude here. I like to do these things when we have a confirmed baddie among the most voted. Here we have a confirmed civ and an unknown.

You can see the wagons here, namely a Speed one, then the Wilgy one, then the new Speed one, but I'm afraid of calling anyone in them civ or bad based on it.

Any thoughts, sprityo?

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:11 am No I agree; I personally just tend to find sig wildly suspect all the time, so I tend to be leery of sigwagons on sig being sig. It's why I wanted to see INHs current thoughts on sig. His case had somewhat more substance, and I thought sig seemed to be paying attention more in Cerberus than he is currently.

Oh I share that sentiment, but I'll still call out Sig on saying pingy stuff whenever I see it.

You are wasting your vote Quin.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:46 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:36 pm You are wasting your vote Quin.
What happened to the DDL who would happily engage in verbal fisticuffs with me when I suspected him?

That was when doing so mattered.

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:56 am
Quin wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:50 pm @insertnamehere i need a new theme for my T O W N C O R E and as my newly appointed second in command you get to decide what it is.
Why were you “townfirmed” again to begin with?

Honest question, I just kept hearing (via Speedchuck??) and never really took to heart what the reasoning was.

Quin can only be bad if there were more vote manipulators on Pikachu than just LC and me.

(He can be indie or civ)

This becomes increasingly unlikely as Pikachu first roles flip, too.

Here is the analysis

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:23 pm If Quin/Speed are both civs, LC has-1. Nutella dies. Possible.

If they are both bad, LC has +3. I die. Impossible.

If one is civ and one is bad, LC has +1. I die. Impossible.

If one indie and one civ:

Spoiler: show
If indies give +1 to LC, he has +1. I die. Impossible.

If indies give -1 to LC, he has -1. Nutella dies. Possible.

If indies give 0 to LC, he has 0. Tie. Possible.

If one indie and one bad:

Spoiler: show
If indies give +1 to LC, he has +3. I die. Impossible.

If indies give -1 to LC, he has +1. I die. Impossible.

If indies give 0 to LC, he has +2. I die. Impossible.

If both indies:

Spoiler: show
If indies give +1 to LC, he has +2. I die. Impossible.

If indies give -1 to LC, he has -0. Tie. Possible.

If indies give 0 to LC, he has +1. I die. Impossible.

Assuming no extra vote manipulation, Quin is either civ or indie. He cannot be mafia.

QED.

The point is that Nutella was lynched over me because of a combination between mine and LC's roles. I had -2 votes by default, and LC vote power was affected by the alignment of people he had previously voted for (Speed and Quin). Knowing Nutella was lynched with three less votes, it's possible to infer Speed and Quin's alignments.

Bring it.

I feel like starting a counter wagon on Sig or Bob.

But nah, Wilgy must die.

Despite what everyone says I feel ok about Scotty.

Phone is useful for catching up.

But laptop is how I actually play the game.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:51 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:48 pm Oh good I have signal again.

@Kylemii I was suggesting you start there because it required less reading. If you feel like reading all of Pikachu go for it.

Also I'm in the same 95+% phone posting boat as you.

I'll throw down a symbolic [VOTE: dharmahelper] aubergine.
i think honestly my problem is that i was trying to enjoy this game with as little effort as possible. the effort itself is waht makes it enjoyable. you cant eat your cake without having it first etc. etc. etc.

This game doesnt reward effort that much though. It takes 6 real life days to get someone lynched, maybe more if people decide to lynch someone in-between, and that's after we got rid of the tribe system that gave a 50% chance for lynches to fail.

If I made this game I'd have given it a double lynch, double kill system, and tried to get it finished before day 12.

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