The Syndicate

Colorful tent!

Thought my opener wouldve been ridiculed for [Insert Here]. Don't @ me for this post.

Thanks.

I dont think SPF is repping a "standard sensible town POV".

Neither of the 2 justifications read as natural at all.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:01 am

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:11 am i think the person with the wolfiest entrance so far is actually lucy

?

I think this is the natural reaction to have. I can't particularly explain why they sound unnatural but I flatly do not believe it is difficult at all for certain wolves types to post as sig did in response, and I feel that lucy has been giving off town vibes that the natural reaction should not be "lucy is the wolfiest player", and especially not since your explanation of why this is so clearly relies on a meta read.

I also dont think the beginning of the game was boring or that porscha v was the only read to be had.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:06 am

Bereft wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:05 am

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:01 am

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:11 am i think the person with the wolfiest entrance so far is actually lucy

?

I think this is the natural reaction to have. I can't particularly explain why they sound unnatural but I flatly do not believe it is difficult at all for certain wolves types to post as sig did in response, and I feel that lucy has been giving off town vibes that the natural reaction should not be "lucy is the wolfiest player", and especially not since your explanation of why this is so clearly relies on a meta read.

do you think that perhaps it's possible that i would read and perceive lucy in a different way from you based on my previous experiences with her?

Its possible. I would want to know why you asked but I feel like your answer would be along the lines of "Im trying to probe you" and thats not interesting with respect to my view of you.

I suupose I should reveal that I think SPF is town and my thoughts started reversing course midway through "casing" SPF as Alison wants to put it.

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:34 pm Hi Bereft how you doing?

Alright.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:35 pm Next question: should we let lucy determine the elim as the IC

I think we should settle it now before she gives reads so mafia can't support/oppose the idea based on her reads

No.

I will take this opportunity to state in advance in response to whoever it was that thought card usage discussion is useful, that I will take full advantage of "antitown" cards. They're not "antitown" if used correctly. Wish I remembered who I'm responding to.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:47 pm i tried to play this cycle intentionally scummy thus far, being widely townread is weird and there are a few possible reasons for it

The correct reason is that you do not have a good idea of what makes a look person scummy.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:06 pm im quoting this post again for the new page bcuz i refuse to be silenced

I read fingersplints reaction without context and immediately gut wolfread it and don't think that putting it in context it makes them townier for it.

Don't have reason to be particularly critical with respect to your post.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:32 pm i thought that the reaction from fingersplints was towny because she immediately flipped her positioning on roxy/alison in a confident/non-chalant way

whereas if she was a wolf making psots dissing alison with the intention to get her killed, i think she might find it hard to capitulate to the idea that alison/roxy are both town as easily as she did

idk if that makes sense to anyone but me but it felt towny to me in the moment

I do not see the flip. In the post you called out, fingersplints is either a wolf with TMI treating alison as if they know they're town and shading, or they're a town whoalready formed the conclusion that in all likelihood they were v/v and made the classical mistake of giving an advice post even though it would look bad to others.

There's a mistake with my previous post, but I think you can figure out what I meant to say.

I read "Alison comes off as looking worse" as fingersplints thought that Alison was more likely to be mafia if there was a mafia within the pair?
Which is a fairly nuanced phrasing overall I'll give you that, but that's how I personally use the turn of phrase. That's not someone who's decided alison as a wolf.

There are plenty of LHF that have gotten zero traction, and would request we starting voting LHF.

Im bored.

So.

Dr.Wilgy,

You haven't appeared to notice that I've voted you and I've been your only voter for as long as I've been paying attebtion, if lucy was on you, they must've been there only briefly. Secondly, what's up your Seanzie vote? You've never bothered to develop that one, your opinion just went poof into thin air.

Hey benneh.

I suddenly understand Mac's Alison/Jack w/w tinfoil.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:49 pm Alison, Creature, Rondo, Baudi, Wilgy



That's been the pretty consistent wagons thus far this RD. Baudi thinks these are spectacularly bad...despite SR Wilgy for sure, and certainly shading Rondo...that's 2/5 he should have no issue w/ flipping, yet he acts like we've got spectacularly bad wagons.


I don't see how a town thinks like this

This is just so disingenuous.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:50 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:49 pm Alison, Creature, Rondo, Baudi, Wilgy



That's been the pretty consistent wagons thus far this RD. Baudi thinks these are spectacularly bad...despite SR Wilgy for sure, and certainly shading Rondo...that's 2/5 he should have no issue w/ flipping, yet he acts like we've got spectacularly bad wagons.

I don't see how a town thinks like this

Really, 2/4 wagons, cuz I'm sure he doesn't want his own flip.


Half the wagons are for players he's been shading or outright SR...I don't see that as a Town mindset at all

Like ...

... is this clarification.

How ... does baudib being themselves a wagon supposed to make the wagons mathematically look better from their perspective?

Id have a more creative way to express how utterly scandalized I feel about the egregiousness of this utter nonsense but in lieu you will just get dots.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:43 am
Why are you voting Kate? Why did you do a naked vote? Imma dive your ISO now, cuz' I'm curious how often you've brought her up before this

You were literally naked voting Kate at the time. The only thing in your iso mentioning kate before this was a whiles before saying "i only found kate sus after the reaction" and you've never repped kate as a sus even when asked by (seanzie?). So how, how, do you get to baudib naked voting kate being a cause of newfound concern for baudibs alignment.

Can't be on much for EoD. At some point, I cant look at tgis thread.

To reply to Falcon, naked voting on my home community is anyvote without justification, as we cannot vote silently.

Jack and Creature are 2 slots that occupy sorta the same niche player archetype wise and threadwise.

With limited experience with either I'd vote Jack over Creature always. In particular I think SPF's meta concerns are too "narrow".

Aight my time is up.

Aighhhghvhbbnnnmmmmhfrstfygghuuef

Sorry I lost my composure.

I caught up to D2. Mac claims they dont like the way I justified my fingersplints vote. That is all.

Bereft wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:15 pm Aighhhghvhbbnnnmmmmhfrstfygghuuef

Sorry I lost my composure.

I caught up to D2. Mac claims they dont like the way I justified my fingersplints vote. That is all.

In hindisght I somehow managed to produce a more sus opener than my D1.

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:34 pm Bereft, if you keep making awkward posts talking about yourself I’m going to rescind all the villa points I assigned you.

Too late then.

You'll get Bereft back tomorrow.

Its pretty clear that we absolutely lost control over the game.
Sig's recasting of the Alison situation encapsulates that perfectly.
It all just looks mindless. Is Lucy/Mac/SPF not enough for you guys?
But. I dont actually know anyone who has the mileage besides tutuu to persuade how many ever town that actually boring established towncores of stronger players are good.

I believe that Mac is town strongly enough to believe that Seanzie's soft is useless.
I don't necessarily believe Jack is town because of this however.

Moreover, in the absence of Lucy actually stating their positions (You promised a readslist a while ago and it never came), I am going to assume the veto of a Jack vote is a soft until otherwise disproven by mechanics which aint nobody got time to read, or otherwise clarified.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:47 pm

Bereft wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:45 pm Its pretty clear that we absolutely lost control over the game.
Sig's recasting of the Alison situation encapsulates that perfectly.
It all just looks mindless. Is Lucy/Mac/SPF not enough for you guys?
But. I dont actually know anyone who has the mileage besides tutuu to persuade how many ever town that actually boring established towncores of stronger players are good.

Whoa, whoa, whoa there Chicken Little. Settle down.


We didn't have a N1 town death, so that's a plus. These kind of posts are inherently scummy, as they only serve to lower morale.

Perhaps Falcon actually believes things are going dandy.* At any rate, in the Falcon/DrWilgy pair, I'm currently of the mind to vote DrWilgy over Falcon.

*my immediate reaction to the Moon card being played was that wolves used it to chop Alison. I do think this is a reasonable kneejerk reaction and hence why I dont care for SPF's questioning of Creature's stated reasoning on roxy.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:11 pm

Bereft wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:10 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:47 pm

Bereft wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:45 pm Its pretty clear that we absolutely lost control over the game.
Sig's recasting of the Alison situation encapsulates that perfectly.
It all just looks mindless. Is Lucy/Mac/SPF not enough for you guys?
But. I dont actually know anyone who has the mileage besides tutuu to persuade how many ever town that actually boring established towncores of stronger players are good.

Whoa, whoa, whoa there Chicken Little. Settle down.


We didn't have a N1 town death, so that's a plus. These kind of posts are inherently scummy, as they only serve to lower morale.

Perhaps Falcon actually believes things are going dandy.* At any rate, in the Falcon/DrWilgy pair, I'm currently of the mind to vote DrWilgy over Falcon.

*my immediate reaction to the Moon card being played was that wolves used it to chop Alison. I do think this is a reasonable kneejerk reaction and hence why I dont care for SPF's questioning of Creature's stated reasoning on roxy.

There's a big difference between dandy, and OH MY GAWD IT'S A FIRE...SALE!



annnnnnnd, scene

My actual point is that wolves are probably gleeful right now and a wolf with this POV would need to do alot of twisting to respond in the manner you did so quickly.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:15 pm

Bereft wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:10 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:47 pm

Bereft wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:45 pm Its pretty clear that we absolutely lost control over the game.
Sig's recasting of the Alison situation encapsulates that perfectly.
It all just looks mindless. Is Lucy/Mac/SPF not enough for you guys?
But. I dont actually know anyone who has the mileage besides tutuu to persuade how many ever town that actually boring established towncores of stronger players are good.

Whoa, whoa, whoa there Chicken Little. Settle down.


We didn't have a N1 town death, so that's a plus. These kind of posts are inherently scummy, as they only serve to lower morale.

Perhaps Falcon actually believes things are going dandy.* At any rate, in the Falcon/DrWilgy pair, I'm currently of the mind to vote DrWilgy over Falcon.

*my immediate reaction to the Moon card being played was that wolves used it to chop Alison. I do think this is a reasonable kneejerk reaction and hence why I dont care for SPF's questioning of Creature's stated reasoning on roxy.

Why are we a pair?

Pair of people dancing around ignored who arent the roxy/kate/fingersplints trio of prior egregiousness. The two of you are also unpartnered.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:15 pm @lucy @MacDougall

i need ur help reading porscha today

I'm 90% sure neither of them have any advantage over you in reading Porscha. Porscha is generally understood as being obvious as town, correct? So if they're not being obvious, everyone else should naturally have the same doubts.

I'm of the opinion that that they might towntell under pressure if town.

Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:18 pm

Bereft wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:10 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:47 pm

Bereft wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:45 pm Its pretty clear that we absolutely lost control over the game.
Sig's recasting of the Alison situation encapsulates that perfectly.
It all just looks mindless. Is Lucy/Mac/SPF not enough for you guys?
But. I dont actually know anyone who has the mileage besides tutuu to persuade how many ever town that actually boring established towncores of stronger players are good.

Whoa, whoa, whoa there Chicken Little. Settle down.


We didn't have a N1 town death, so that's a plus. These kind of posts are inherently scummy, as they only serve to lower morale.

Perhaps Falcon actually believes things are going dandy.* At any rate, in the Falcon/DrWilgy pair, I'm currently of the mind to vote DrWilgy over Falcon.

*my immediate reaction to the Moon card being played was that wolves used it to chop Alison. I do think this is a reasonable kneejerk reaction and hence why I dont care for SPF's questioning of Creature's stated reasoning on roxy.

How does it play into SPF's questioning that you dont care for? Why couldnt it have been a town who used the card on alison???

I suddenly feel like you might not be town after all.
In all seriousness, I don't feel like responding with the usual "this is what i was trying to say, not what you said, what you were trying to point out is irrelevant, also why is this even of interest to you". Maybe SPF might explain.

I will now proceed to waste a post asking how it is possible that I've gained zero info on what Dr. Wilgy is like a wolf. That I've had zero ability to discern whether Dr.Wilgy fakes some level of emotion as wolf. That there's been zero reads on Dr. Wilgy besides tutuu that aren't just "kill because theyre spouting BS" (and yes they are spouting nonsense dont @ me wilgy)

I will note that Seanzie defended falcon, there is definitely a difference in how these players have been treated or am I imagining things.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:50 pm the mafia clearly rushed an Alison wagon so they could play the card...

Thank you for stating the only natural reaction to have after that.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:52 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:29 pm i am oracle, i have no idea why i'm facing so much opposition, what do you guys think about me being openly opposed and not listened to?

is it towny? is it scummy? what purpose does it serve?

I think any one person, even an IC, trying to take the reins of the game into their own hands is extremely bad for threadhealth, wagonomics, and in general gameplay. It creates a gamestate that is extremely easy for wolves to work around and that limits all the townies abilities to do their things.

It is towny to be opposed to a bad strategy. The purpose opposing it serves is to hopefully convince you to realize that what you're asking of the thread is IMO a bad way to play the game that does more harm than good.

Did you guys know that Oracle gets alignment info?

I totally didnt realize that until recently.

Maybe Lucy has info we dont.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:48 pm
I think jack is town now because he's playing in a way that would essentially guarantee he dies if he gets his goal of killing me - I can't see any worlds where he survives much longer if I flip and that seems like an odd line for a mafia to take, since he doesn't have enough of a meta of thunderdoming wrongly as town to get away with it.

I'm sorely disappointed that this is the reasoning.

Jack, you're hopelessly unfunny. Ranking the relative strengths of tutuu's w/w cases, really?

I will note that Porscha said they'd look more into ... Baudib and Bereft. Baudib, the obvtown who got shielded by the townleaders, and Bereft, whose been bereft of scumreads.

I don't understand what worldview this comes from, and they'd said they'd explain later but I'm certainly not holding my breath for that.

Current cold reads on everyone:

Creature - Solid Town - I townread Creature D1. Alison townread Creature D1 for reasons I also had. I townread Creature D2. Lucy also townreads Creature D2 and they also claim meta experience.
Dennis - Solid Town - Purity
DrWilgy - Lean Wolf - Reads like how I'd wolf 2 years ago.
falcon45ca - Lean Town - Both Seanzie and Falcon claim Falcon is obviously town and they've also provided why.
Jackofhearts2005 - Lean Wolf - Their play is empty once you remove the Alison situation. I don't respect the Alison townread, think its weak, and was surprised that Alison had even made that read at all, because I thought that for Alison, variants of TWTBAW didn't exist.
Kate - Null - Alison's townread exists. I don't dislike it, but I'd also rather not make a read off of such a thing, and the rest of their posts are too scant for me to feel justified taking any position.
lucy - IC
MacDougall - IC
Porscha - GTH Wolf - Not obvious town. The thing holding me back is the fact they've been in perpetual catchup mode which is not actually what wolves do in my experience, and also that unlike tutuu, I have Creature and falcon as fine so I don't see where the partner interactions are.
RondoDimBuckle - Lean Town - Have little to say here, theoretically they could be the wolf that decided to bother to appear like they are townsiding, but they had the correct reaction today so they get a pass for now.
Roxy - Null - I think their reaction to Alison's scumread was atrocious and its possible that they fell apart to pressure. Alison's original idea that Roxy was defending Kate also holds some merit, after all, why does Roxy react in that manner otherwise wrt Kate? The issue is that Lucy's earlier position holds merit. Roxy's been nowhere and none of this looks like a wolf playing to help the team at the moment. Will reread Roxy D2 because I remember none of it and I think I'm just uninformed right now. I also am beginning to think that if Roxy is a wolf then Kate sorta has to be one following the earlier line of questioning.
Seanzie - Lean Town - Purely tone based.
sig - Wolfy - If there's one person who's actually playing like a wolf, its sig. Somehow has "reasonable" reasons to do all the nonsense Wilgy and Falcon have been trying out. I wonder if they defended Roxy, I feel like that happened at some point, maybe Im wrong.
staypositivefriend - Solid Town - SPF is trying extremely hard today to make me rescind this read. Why are they voting Dennis?
tutuu - Obvious Town - Obvious is obvious.

That list would put me at Wilgy/Jack/Porscha/Sig

But it may just in fact be Wilgy/Jack/Kate/Roxy/Sig which gives you a nice quintet.

Fin.

I'm sending in Wilgy/Jack/Kate/Roxy/Sig as my D2 wolfteam guess. D2 was scuffed and shouldnt be counted as a real day and there's only been 1 NK, so this is my D2 guess.

Notice that my solve claims that Alison correctly identified 3 wolves D1.

I think that this easily explains why D1 ended up as such as crapshow and the concerted effort to kill Alison that we've seen.

Roxy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:42 am

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:35 am

Roxy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:32 am Ps this is my only appearance this day. I voted Dennis

Bc I won't be back or respond to anyone.

If you wont highlight how its obvious on Dennis I wont vote him or rally on your behalf

Fu Rondo for making me want to help you


Every game, 2 so far, he finds his own suspicions he did it in his own fashion, this game feels like he is being led in the thread by whatever bad town play is in action. No questions just doing what he told. He did not do this before in either game. It feels like a mafia member told him here's how to be bad. And it's obv bc It does not fit with his play from the other games.



Ps this ploy will no longer work and will self destruct when I hit submit

And exactly what bad town plays would that be?

Anyways, I don't perceive Roxy as being an outed wolf (if they are a wolf they're obviously in antispew, its actually a pretty blatant antispew now that I think about it), nor do I think that Wilgy gets spewed town by anything that has happened.

I can even answer my own question, "bad town plays" is just "voted Roxy".

Anyways, if Wilgy were town in tutuu's line of logic, I'd expect to see a defense of Wilgy, and again I've seen zilch. Roxy putting them as ok doesn't change any of this. Its "antispew", just don't bother reading into it in general.

Porscha's read on Dr. Wilgy tells me that Dr. Wilgy is able to fake some amount of microtells, so I've further dug in on my position that tutuu gave Wilgy a pass a bit too easily. I also am relieved I threw Porscha out of my solve before they started becoming more obv town again.

Yeah I understand tutuu, its why you're an obvious town.