The Syndicate

Mafia surely the better team and should win this 95%

But they probably could have all zero-posted after Day 3 and won because the town was that awful.

I'll take my share of the blame for stupidly getting modkilled (mostly an innocent mistake but still).

thanks for game Daisy. Ban the villagers!

Welp. Mistakes were made.

This should be considered a mafia shutout tbh.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:57 pm Baudib neon is a dead town

yeah I said I wrote it up before the Neon flip.

Town core

Baudib1 - Shining beacon of villageryness. I'm out of my (vast, extravagant) wolfrange. You don't have to believe this, but in my previous game (Floor is Lava), I was universally townread and I repeatedly said that people in the game were clearing others too lightly because I was quite squarely in my wolfrange. This game is the opposite. Most of my time in the abbreviated D2 was spent trying to get people to not vote LDFO villager Alison for info. I am pretty sure many of the people voting Alison on D1 were mafia and many of the people voting her D2 were town. As a wolf I just powerwolf and get villagers yeeted. 

My plan this game is to mow down a big pile of wolves while hard-defending 1-2 and killing off a couple villagers along the way; then lose an F5 with Lucy, Creature, Sabi and Porscha.

Lucy- Town Oracle -  no reason to doubt this. She telegraphed PR in her first post of the game (I called it out as having zealot vibes) and she confidently believes that people should listen to her.
Tutuuu - so town it hurts

Mac/SPF - they're playing exactly like good players who randed town should play. Nothing amazingly clearing and there are some concerns their games so far can quite comfortably fit into a good player having a great wolfgame range but nothing worth tinfoiling on yet.  
If any of the above people are wolves we will just lose the game.


Pretty town
Rondo - lots of stuff that could be said here but I don't feel like it. Call it town entitlement.
Dennis - I played great as a wolf in my first forum mafia game, so I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Dennis is a wolf in his fourth game here. He has inconsistencies in thought process and some weird reads but  so do  a lot of people. Mafia is hard and it seems like he's just playing honestly.
*Creature - Super likely to just be town and he's playing perfectly fine/well and should definitely not be on the block today or tomorrow. This advice will be ignored.
Bereft - out of all the people who have been described as being UTR, Bereft has some the most genuine-seeming reactions.

Seanzie - same as Bereft but slightly less so.

These are leans more than super confident reads, one of these will flip evil quite often. If it's more than one well lolvariance or I suck.

IDFK
Sabi - Alison cited a towntell and I tend to believe it but her game is pretty devoid of content.
Neon - Not playing like she's on a team or partnered but not exactly playing in a townsiding manner. Her beef with Alison could easily be T/T but like, her rhetoric fits a much less experienced player. Clearly I'm having issues with cultural differences with multiple people in this game so maybe it's me. But IME this is as often a skilled player effectively using arguments they don't believe to push an agenda as it is a difference of views. If she's town I expect her game to improve dramatically from this point onward.
Porscha - no strong feelings, just actively null.

Here be dragons - minimum 3 wolves her I think
Falcon
Wilgy
Sig
Roxy

Jack

*conspicuously yet unconsciously slipped and put my scum partner who I defended smack in the middle of a reads list.

I have a readslist I'll post in a second that I wrote up before Neon's flip but I'll just post it anyway because not much has changed based on posting today. I'll ignore various softs and stuff and reiterate that night targets were randomized.

Like Sean is obviously softing something but Jack is a wolf for a lot of other reasons so like, fine. His comment on Mac eating villagers left and right is...interesting and it's technically not incorrect.

This game isn't really ideal for me because I make reads by interacting with people and I like to point out small details in posts and I can't really do that here; ideally I'd need like 500 posts in a 48-hour phase but oh well. The worldwide Mafia recession has hit everyone hard.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:13 pm How would folks interpret Wilgy being re-directed onto a player and nothing negative happening to that player?

Important note to all in case you missed it: night actions were randomized due to the Tower being played.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:16 pm Hello everyone.

EoD seemed like a clusterfuck.

Splints was a bad wagon, there was literally no data to gain from that last min wagon.

Wrong. Splints was a perfectly cromulent wagon. Allison was a bad wagon.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:06 pm if creature roxy sig and jack contains more than one villager then this game is probably a loss

It’ll be OK.

Creature why is Falcon town?

SPF:
The other wagons most of D1 were me and Creature and there was incredibly strong resistance to voting anyone else until Mac voted for Splints.

Ok so @Seanzie I guess we would like you to clarify. Do you have mechanical information that indicate Mac and Jack are wolves?

Dennis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:40 pm Ok so LHF is like, taking annoying pop shots that people should know is NAI but are sussing you for anyways? Nifty

No LHF is used to describe players in the game who appear to be easy to push without much resistance.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:40 pm So should I iso Roxy, Jack, Mac, spf, sig, who else?

These are names I'm seeing thrown around?

Porscha, Falcon.

Some people think Creature has been off meta and he was one of Alison’s legacy W reads.

sig wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:36 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:31 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:28 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:15 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:04 pm Howdy ladies and theys

I read the first two pages. Can someone give me the tl;dr of what happened and who should I iso?

Hello Sabi.

Day 1 came down to a tvt between Alison and Fingersplints. Alison's main suspects were Roxy and Kate ie. you. Fingersplints largely got pushed to a counterwagon of Alison by me and SPF. I thoughy FS was very wolfy and also slanky.

Neon seems to have been randomly killed due to the tower.

I see. What made people push Alison to be a wagon?

What are the other thoughts so far? Who do I need to iso?

A bunch of sketchy people were voting her for terrible reasons on D1 despite the fact that she was super villagery, then people wanted to flip her D2 due to tinfoils and “resolve the wagons” etc.
fwiw she hated your slot early on but then decided Kate had townslipped.

@sabie12 first welcome!

Second I’m not directly quoting you so tagging you.

Third I’m gonna disagree with this thought,

Allison was playing a sketchy game and the only people clearing her weren’t being read as civ. She also received a lot of votes day 2 meaning their was a consensus and their was a last minute CFD onto splints to save her (who flipped civ)


From a reading perspective I’d probably try to read the first like 3-5 pages and then the last 3-5 pages see what pops up and ISO based off that. Also whoever you’re most familiar with id ISO since you can make a meta read

Allison wasn’t sketchy in the least. She was taking aggressive stances but also re-evaluating and evolving her reads. The people voting for her were mostly terrible like you.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:28 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:15 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:04 pm Howdy ladies and theys

I read the first two pages. Can someone give me the tl;dr of what happened and who should I iso?

Hello Sabi.

Day 1 came down to a tvt between Alison and Fingersplints. Alison's main suspects were Roxy and Kate ie. you. Fingersplints largely got pushed to a counterwagon of Alison by me and SPF. I thoughy FS was very wolfy and also slanky.

Neon seems to have been randomly killed due to the tower.

I see. What made people push Alison to be a wagon?

What are the other thoughts so far? Who do I need to iso?

A bunch of sketchy people were voting her for terrible reasons on D1 despite the fact that she was super villagery, then people wanted to flip her D2 due to tinfoils and “resolve the wagons” etc.
fwiw she hated your slot early on but then decided Kate had townslipped.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:38 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:35 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:31 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:28 pm @lucy -

i think it's possible that this might be the same situation as d3 in da bois invitational but this time alison is you

and im in the same position too, but lacking confidence to assert the position on the chance that im wrong

do you get what im saying?

What situation would that be?

in that game, lucy was a villager who was tunneled by the rest of the game to the extent that she was convinced it was optimal to die, and she spent the entire day reiterating that she needed to die for the sake of the game

i recognized that lucy was playing in her town meta in that game but i wasnt confident enough to meaningfully defend her for various reasons, mainly being the confidence that other people i townread had about alison being mafia

my thought was that the dynamics here are effectively the same, even if i am considerably less sure about your alignment than i was about lucy's alignment in that game. just something i was thinking about

I think I've spoken about this before but I think falling on your sword can be an effective strategy under certain conditions and I've done it often enough. Sometimes I'm totally right and sometimes I'm totally wrong but I'll never turn down a chance to make the outcome of the game rely on myself because it's better than relying on random people.

It can be ineffective if people won't actually sheep you after you flip town, but in this case I think there's a good chance I'll be flipped (lucy, tutuu and Mac are all loud and influential voices who have expressed a commitment to sheeping my legacy if I flip town). If you think my legacy is wrong then now is a good time to convince me otherwise.

I realize you have this particular view and have been the object of so much discussion you want to just prove you’re right, but you’re kinda overlooking the fact that Jack is far more outed than Roxy, and Creature is probably just a villager.

Bereft, if you keep making awkward posts talking about yourself I’m going to rescind all the villa points I assigned you.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:26 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:24 pm I woke like to hear opinions on Neon because I am completely lost (wolf signal).

Woke soft, Baudib is a member of the liberals

Also I think the most important thing for me to do the rest of this day phase is to sort out the masses of weirdo slots that have done nothing and placed votes essentially at random but they can't all be mafia so I have to try to town clear some of them somehow to really lock in a win. Examples include Sig, Bereft, Falcon, Wilgy.

I like Bereft a decent amount due to him actively calling out legitimately scummy posts from people who weren’t drawing any attention that felt genuine. Sig/Falcon/Wilgy can go imo.

I woke like to hear opinions on Neon because I am completely lost (wolf signal).

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:20 pm It is on this page that people are finding out the difference between playing mafia optimally and playing mafia passionately.

Listen if you yeet yourself out of this game and leave me here with 12 potatoes I will make angry copypastas about it postgame.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:20 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:18 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:15 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:14 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:13 pm God damn it I made a terrible mistake. Fingersplints was such a bad chop day 1 lol. I foolishly put my read over the health of the game.

They were a perfectly cromulent chop.

In the sense of likelihood to flip mafia sure but not in the sense of making day 1 good for retrospective analysis.

Yeah but there was no NK so the wolves didn’t profit from the day. It’s essentially the same game state.

Feel free to hop on the wagon with all the people you thought were sketchy I guess.

Tutuu was like my strongest townread butthead.

Mine too. Tutuu and I are gay together now.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:18 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:58 pm

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:54 pm Alison is doing a play by play exact replica of King of the Hill. I can't get over that lol its exactly the same.

Like

search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&t=24 ... &start=250

Exactly the same. Every single aspect of it.

I kinda town read the switch off on Kate but than I remembered that a very similar thing happened to the wolf team when I subbed out in KotH mafia for mental health reasons and they abandoned the Neon push because they thought my subbing out was town indicative because of the way it was done.

This is what I’ve been saying. It’s grossly blatant to the point when I’d actually agree with Tutuu on the bussing thing if I didn’t independently townread Sig and myself.

hate this post regardless of alison's alignment

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

Yes but the only reason you hate it is because you have a brain and Jack is a wolf, did you consider that??

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:15 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:14 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:13 pm God damn it I made a terrible mistake. Fingersplints was such a bad chop day 1 lol. I foolishly put my read over the health of the game.

They were a perfectly cromulent chop.

In the sense of likelihood to flip mafia sure but not in the sense of making day 1 good for retrospective analysis.

Yeah but there was no NK so the wolves didn’t profit from the day. It’s essentially the same game state.

Feel free to hop on the wagon with all the people you thought were sketchy I guess.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:13 pm God damn it I made a terrible mistake. Fingersplints was such a bad chop day 1 lol. I foolishly put my read over the health of the game.

They were a perfectly cromulent chop.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:12 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:10 pm

Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:08 pm What caused the sudden change from "Don't kill Alison this is just how she plays" to "Let's get Alison's head. NOW."

MacDougall’s self-doubt started creeping in after the flip.

No it's because I'm mafia and by doing this I get to bury town Alison but in the exact way she expects me to do so as town, so I get to kill her for free. It's a real dream come true.

Ur not fcking mafia, I am.

Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:08 pm What caused the sudden change from "Don't kill Alison this is just how she plays" to "Let's get Alison's head. NOW."

MacDougall’s self-doubt started creeping in after the flip.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:07 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:06 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:04 pm FWIW I will of course adjust Alison’s wolf equity in my head up slightly but only based on the universal increase that occurs when a VT is yeeted.

It’s not like Alison caused the lynch to happen. The people who voted for Fingers were entirely people who were widely townread and not voting for her.

So anyone pushing the narrative that since we had a town flip, we must kill Alison should be treated with much suspicion.

If you disagree with this and are voting Alison tell us who the wolves are on the fingers wagon.

Spoken like someone who is acutely aware the Fingersplints wagon was nearly entirely pure lol.

The game stats is essentially exactly the same except we have one fewer town.

I’m not sure why you think this should flip out worldviews.

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:04 pm FWIW I will of course adjust Alison’s wolf equity in my head up slightly but only based on the universal increase that occurs when a VT is yeeted.

It’s not like Alison caused the lynch to happen. The people who voted for Fingers were entirely people who were widely townread and not voting for her.

So anyone pushing the narrative that since we had a town flip, we must kill Alison should be treated with much suspicion.

If you disagree with this and are voting Alison tell us who the wolves are on the fingers wagon.

FWIW I will of course adjust Alison’s wolf equity in my head up slightly but only based on the universal increase that occurs when a VT is yeeted.

It’s not like Alison caused the lynch to happen. The people who voted for Fingers were entirely people who were widely townread and not voting for her.

So anyone pushing the narrative that since we had a town flip, we must kill Alison should be treated with much suspicion.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:00 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:58 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:54 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:52 pm If alison is mafia i feel like 2 or maybe 3 of the people vehemently pushing her are also mafia

Looking at jack and sig

A possible explanation for the behavior "alison maf, i aint moving, nu-uh, nothing else exists i put my hands on my ears lalalalala" is an orchestrated bus, maybe alison has exams or something she always has exams :P

(I still have an unconfident townread on her, just exploring an option)

Do you think that if that is the team, Alison is the one they would be bussing? I find it unlikely but I’m not really in touch with the meta of the players involved.

I cant tell you that far/deep, this was just my solution when i thought to solve the problem "whats the reason behind the pressure on alison that i cant understand/justify (coming from jack and sig maybe seanzie, rondo, forgot who else)"

From roxy, dennis, finger, neon - i understand and justify it, its the emotional turbulation having an impact, so i dont think its w/w there

It's not a bus, they are just outing to kill me. It's why none of my voters can give a coherent reason why I am mafia and it's why I feel great about the game because the mafia team has overextended way too much and it's hard to imagine the game ending well for them unless you guys totally throw after my flip (in which case it's on you).

Don’t worry I’m like the best late-game villager ever.

tutuu wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:52 pm If alison is mafia i feel like 2 or maybe 3 of the people vehemently pushing her are also mafia

Looking at jack and sig

A possible explanation for the behavior "alison maf, i aint moving, nu-uh, nothing else exists i put my hands on my ears lalalalala" is an orchestrated bus, maybe alison has exams or something she always has exams :P

(I still have an unconfident townread on her, just exploring an option)

Do you think that if that is the team, Alison is the one they would be bussing? I find it unlikely but I’m not really in touch with the meta of the players involved.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:50 pm Roxy has way more scum equity than Jack.

Disagree, but im on board for now.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:40 pm So after seeing Fingersplints flip, my thoughts are

1. Some of the top players are likely bad to create that big of a wagon on LHF that fast and late.

2. Except idk if that is fully correct because Lucy was campaigning hard for it

3. Since we have an unkillable IC, we need to find a way to effectively play around that. I don't think it is in town's best interest to turn the game into "pocket Lucy, sheep Lucy". This is no judgement on Lucy, just a fact that it isn't a good way to play.

The issue is that the wagons were basically static AF for all of D1 and they weren’t moving off to encore-created wagons and it didn’t move until people like Max/SPF started moving on them and then Lucy and the rest.

The likelihood that you’re correct is probably fairly high. I’d like to think that all the good players in the game are good because that’s how I’m reading most of them atm but that’s unlikely. So this game will probably be really hard.

@staypositivefriend

Did Jack’s (non-existent) response to you asking him to expand on his worldview impress you or can we be normal and just kill him today or?

tutuu I didn’t get the chance to express my love and appreciation since I was postcapped but good job in the thread yesterday, it helped me confirm you are basically locktown. Mafia will never expose mech townslips.

Wow way lmao

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:56 pm The thing giving me pause about my gamestate, and humouring flipping my evaluation upside down, is Alison and Baudib shielding Creature in case that wasn't obvious.

Firstly, I still think SPF's case on Creature has been the most thorough and well reasoned argument anyone has made the entire phase. On top of that SPF has been possibly the towniest person in the game. In spite of that, she's been largely ignored in favour of this repetitive argument that's like the universe vs. Alison. I also just don't think Creature has been towny.

Is there a world in which Alison, Baudib, SPF and Creature are all town.

SPF and Mac would need to be wrong about Creature. Corrected by two players who are largely suspected by a huge swathe of players. I guess it's plausible in that way.

The question one moustache is ... is Creature really towny enough for Alison and Baudib to be this defensive of him? Or is their defense shielding a partner? Or is it TMI?

@Jackofhearts2005 @DrWilgy @falcon45ca What do you three think of Creature?

I’ll burn my last post on this because it’s worth it and I know you will consider it instead of just nodding and continue on just saying things…

I made this case before but I don’t doubt that Creature has W equity and you/SPF’s meta-driven reasons for sussing him are ~ fine. I’ll still argue that in this player list, Creature is super likely to be more valuable as town and is not a particularly dangerous late wolf IME (some notable exceptions to the contrary).

Still I would argue, as I would argue in the case of Alison, he has been fairly townsided and not trying to actively muck up the game state by saying nonsensical things the way ~ 5-8 other people are. Like you yourself literally had to make a post explaining why listening to the town IC on D1 is a reasonable idea; you cannot argue that Creature at a bare minimum operates at a level of competency far above this line.
***********
To all the people giving Lucy grief: It’s D1 in a fairly large game, trust me your reads probably aren’t great and there’s a high likelihood that you’ve agreed with and internalized Wolf-spread agenda. You should at least consider what she is saying since you know her motives are pure.

Let’s try to play better, this D1 was a dumpster fire.

I’ll be voting with the Lucy/SPF group.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:57 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:55 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:50 pm ftr im insecure about my vote on jack and im not sure that im going to hold there

i just prefer him over the baud/alison wagons atm

What wagon(s) would you prefer instead?

i perceive the pool of creature/splints/falcon/sig as being likely to contain at least 2 wolves

I would guess you are probably correct.

I would say of the people casing/pushing me, Rondo is almost certainly town; Seanzie feels genuine; Falcon seems extremely sus. Bereft feels pure and his casing of Falcon was solid work.

Splints/sig/wilgy are flying utr.

Roxy seems rand to me; I think the pushback on Alison is likely at least partially wolf-driven though that doesn't mean much for Roxy's alignment imo.

Pretty tough to yeet mafia in this game state with 5 living so if you want to move to another wagon please @me, i'm out of posts. Who else do you trust?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:43 pm i swear to god that i saw a post from neon earlier where she asked me for my opinion on whether alison is playing like she played in king of the hill mafia and i can't find it and i feel like i'm having a stroke

but @Neon , assuming you did actually ask me that question,i don't really remember the specifics of how alison treated you in KOTH well enough to make a direct meta comparison

but one thing i will say is that while alison tends to be very confident and assertive as both alignments, i've noticed that she tends to be more stubborn and less willing to change her mind about certain reads as mafia, including the KOTH game. so, when i'm trying to read alison, there are a few primary things i'm looking at:

A. her results. this is one of the best metrics to read alison by. if alison kills or pushes on wolves within the first dayphase or two, she is usually a villager. if she doesn't, she is usually a wolf. there are exceptions to this rule, and it all needs to be taken contextually, but results are probably the best way to get an accurate read on a player like alison

B. her agenda (or, her flexibility). alison as a wolf has a very specific idea for how she wants games to play out, which means that she tends to be less open minded as scum and much less likely to change reads without being specifically prompted to. i think this is a good metric to read most players by, but it particularly fits for alison's playstyle

so, it's too early to judge alison by A, but if i'm judging her by B, i think she looks OK enough. i thought it was kind of towny that she randomly said that kate is a hard villager who townslipped when i don't see an obvious incentive for her to randomly change her mind like that as mafia

if alison is lining up kate for a mischop as mafia then i don't get why she would suddenly shift her positioning when kate was still being widely POE'd. if alison was lining up kate for a bus then i doubt alison would change her mind in such a jarring and blatant way. alison shifting her positioning in an unstrategic way is the biggest towntell she's had all day today

im not really confident in my ability to read alison but i thought it might be helpful to show how im thinking about her rn

Good post and the point about her change of mind on Kate is excellent. I’m not self-pressing on Alison so can you and Lucy figure out a better target?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:27 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:31 pm Creature and Alison are terrible votes today.


@MacDougall @staypositivefriend
I realize it’s inevitable but I dislike meta reads since they are obviously exploitable and mutable and regardless of what you think of Creature’s game, he is indeed playing the game and at least giving the appearance of trying to discern alignments, which is more than what 3/4 of the player list is doing. Also multiple people here claim to be master reads of Creature, who becomes obvtown or obvwolf later in the game. Let’s find a Wolfy player who isn’t doing anything.

okay

can you sell me on a jack vote without using meta?

His posts are howling and lack any genuine solving.

To all towns:
Fundamentally the stagnation on high activity poster wagons (me/Allison) and the noted lack of interest in the jack wagon even while strong town voices (me, Mac, Alison, Lucy) are making cases on him should be triggering your wolfdar.
If Jack were pure there is enough town coverage for wolves to slip in among us (there aren’t multiple wolves very often in me, Mac/Alison/Lucy) to push for a Jack yeet if he’s town.

glgl

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:21 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:18 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:15 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:13 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:11 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:52 pm Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

I'm literally leading a yeet on a wolf right now. How much more useful do you expect me to be?

Jack: you and I both know, so just remember when we play another game for higher stakes, bub.

Your push on me is so ill advised that you've become a bigger wagon than me even without me pushing you at all.

Everything you're complaining about me doing, you're doing. I'm not doing enough by just pushing Alison? You're not doing enough by just pushing me.

Only I'm pushing a wolf and you're pushing a townie. If you really are town and you really can't get over this, at least do something else useful so people stop thinking you're a wolf.

Bub you can’t even make a half-convincing case that you’re unaware of my alignment. I’m not the one trolling the thread with useless nonsense. I have plenty of other thoughts on other people in the game, and you don’t.

You are frustrating.

Sure but you can’t actually articulate how or why I’m wrong.
Let’s say we agree that Alison’s wolf equity is non-zero (I would in fact agree), it’s impossible that you don’t fundamentally understand why she’s not a D1 yeet. If you want to fear kill her on D3, by all means.

I know that you know this.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:15 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:13 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:11 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:52 pm Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

I'm literally leading a yeet on a wolf right now. How much more useful do you expect me to be?

Jack: you and I both know, so just remember when we play another game for higher stakes, bub.

Your push on me is so ill advised that you've become a bigger wagon than me even without me pushing you at all.

Everything you're complaining about me doing, you're doing. I'm not doing enough by just pushing Alison? You're not doing enough by just pushing me.

Only I'm pushing a wolf and you're pushing a townie. If you really are town and you really can't get over this, at least do something else useful so people stop thinking you're a wolf.

Bub you can’t even make a half-convincing case that you’re unaware of my alignment. I’m not the one trolling the thread with useless nonsense. I have plenty of other thoughts on other people in the game, and you don’t.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:11 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:52 pm Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

I'm literally leading a yeet on a wolf right now. How much more useful do you expect me to be?

Jack: you and I both know, so just remember when we play another game for higher stakes, bub.

Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

I’m inferring that Neon is an experienced player so I find it hard to believe she believes some of these arguments she’s making about Alison. Alison’s casing of Roxy was pretty tame, it’s hard to imagine Neon hasn’t seen worse than every single game of mafia ever.
It doesn’t seem to me that she is considering alignments and just trying to highlight the worst of people.

Dennis:
Thanks for your thoughts and thanks for not voting Alison.

Creature and Alison are terrible votes today.


@MacDougall @staypositivefriend
I realize it’s inevitable but I dislike meta reads since they are obviously exploitable and mutable and regardless of what you think of Creature’s game, he is indeed playing the game and at least giving the appearance of trying to discern alignments, which is more than what 3/4 of the player list is doing. Also multiple people here claim to be master reads of Creature, who becomes obvtown or obvwolf later in the game. Let’s find a Wolfy player who isn’t doing anything.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:16 am

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:15 am Rondo, the problem you’re having is that Jack is an obvious wolf and I am not.

Amazing response. I spend the last hour reading through your ISO and giving a considered approach and you meme at me in response. Interesting. Not town.

I can’t really respond to your thoughts because you misinterpreted everything, including the fact that I said you were town.

I’ll take one small thing, which is that Falcon did not hit the nail on the head when he said my mindset isn’t town because I pointed out I was echoing the opinion of our IC, who is town. So take that under consideration and blow up the rest of your post because you’re being (perhaps willfully) obtuse.

I am not going to bother responding to any more of your nonsense.

Rondo, the problem you’re having is that Jack is an obvious wolf and I am not.