Cartomancy [Game Over]

[MacDougall]

My tinfoil is that Jack and Alison are w/w.

[Porscha]

@Alison

Why aren’t you voting me if I’m outted?

This was asked earlier and my response is that Roxy is more outed

How can someone be “more outed”?

Alison's scale appears to be 1(outed) through 10(outed) lol

[Porscha]

Somebody do something to make me feel something.

I'm listening to Easy to Tame by Kim Mitchell, and got Rich Gurl by Hall & Oates qued up next.



Get hyped.



What's your take on Wilgy?

lol I think DrWilgy had a wolf list that feels like it's 0/3 so he can go

agree / retract my scumread on creature

I havent loved creature so far but this feels pockety towards him mostly because I already thought it was a weird sentiment from him but now you agree
But also why would mac want to pocket creature
...................... maybe I should just assume I'm not seeing what you're seeing and its townier than my instincts say it is
I imagine you'll explain the wilgy reads thing in a further post so I won't ask for now

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

You're right, my approach to Roxy was not positive. I don't tend to approach my scumreads positively. I don't care if it made the game state hard for you to read through, if you don't like reading people arguing then don't play mafia. It benefits town because it exposed Roxy as flailing and breaking down under pressure which is an extremely scummy move and may well have outed a mafia.

You seem to be extremely skeptical of the concept of pressuring a suspect. Even excessively nice players like JJJ don't take that kind of view. I know you're not new to mafia, so either you are an abnormal player or you are making this all up. Which is it?

This approach is simply shit Alison.

You will incorrectly accuse just as many town players of being scum by breaking them down in such a negative way as you will "correctly" find scum.

I don't think you've even found scum. I just think you've pissed off a human being on another side of another screen for no reason.

You catch more flies with honeythan vinegar.

Don't sit here and tell me not to play mafia.

Interesting theory.

Unfortunately the results don't bear it out, as I am successful enough in my town games that I am policy exed if I do not catch a wolf by D2 or D3. What I did to Roxy is that I called them mafia. If being called mafia pisses you off, this is not the game for you. You agree to be pressured, interrogated, and accused of being mafia regardless of your alignment by signing up to the game. And in doing so, I made them switch their views and contradict themselves in the scummiest way possible. Roxy hasn't even posted in the thread since our fight which suggests that she is completely frozen. The fact that you are so defensive of them is suspicious, and the fact that you think pressuring suspects is a shit approach when it has already proven itself to be very effective this game alone suggests that you are either being wilfully ignorant or you have a malicious agenda in trying to undermine my solving.

I think there's a stark difference between a positive attempt to aggresively attack someone as mafia and a negative attempt to aggresively attack someone as mafia.

I also dont think you "simply called them mafia"

I also internally feel like Roxy asked you to stop pushing her in a way that was making her feel uncomfortable and you refused.

I think you're inability to reconcile the idea that my thoughts don't mean I think you should never push someone aggresively and rather mean you can do that with positive energy and not illicit intentional negative emotions is weird

You seem to think I'm saying never be aggressive when I'm saying why do you have to be aggressive in such a harsh unnecessary way.

Yes of course I refused. My scumreads don't get to dictate how I push them as long as I'm not using personal attacks or taking things out of the game, which I didn't. Have you ever considered that Roxy might be uncomfortable by my push because she is mafia and she is terrified of being caught 4 pages in? No, you haven't, and I'm struggling to decide if this is a TMI slip or not. You keep using the words positive and negative: newsflash, I don't treat mafia members positively. If nobody ever treated them negatively they'll never feel true pressure and they'll never get caught. There is nothing harsh or unnecessary about my style of play. I exert as much pressure as is necessary to get them to tell me their alignment.

That's the last I'll say on this because I suspect you are trying to waste my time with bullshit mafia theory in order to get me to cap. I'll save the rest of my posts for casing and EOD.

This is the fun of this conversation now. I'm gonna look bad to you no matter what Roxy is now because I've either TMId her town as wolf or defended her wolf as wolf lol.

I think if someone is uncomfortable you should back off yeah. I think you should take other people's emotions into account in an already hyper emotional game yes. I think mafia is a game steeped in psychology and that what you think you are doing is psychologically speaking entirely false.

By creating a negative environment you are intentionally forcing the results you desire. Someone feeling hyper negative emotions struggles to put together coherent articulated thoughts. They will contradict themself and make less sense by virtue of the environment you've intentionally created.

The reason good cop bad cop is a hyper successful tactic in interrogation is because of the existence of the good cop. Good cop bad cop fails in an environment with no good cop. The reason for this is that the good cop is intentionally creating an environment of positive energy and so even though the bad cop is attacking aggresively there is always a feeling of positive energy which the suspect can exist in and so when they get caught its because they've opened up to the positive environment.

Similarly most false confessions are gained in environments of pure aggressive negativity where there is never an attempt to create a positive nurturing environment for the suspect.



You are creating an intentional playstyle that will create false confessionals by its very nature.

[MacDougall]

Somebody do something to make me feel something.

I'm listening to Easy to Tame by Kim Mitchell, and got Rich Gurl by Hall & Oates qued up next.



Get hyped.



What's your take on Wilgy?

lol I think DrWilgy had a wolf list that feels like it's 0/3 so he can go

agree / retract my scumread on creature

I havent loved creature so far but this feels pockety towards him mostly because I already thought it was a weird sentiment from him but now you agree
But also why would mac want to pocket creature
...................... maybe I should just assume I'm not seeing what you're seeing and its townier than my instincts say it is
I imagine you'll explain the wilgy reads thing in a further post so I won't ask for now

I hated Wilgy's readslist.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I decided to fact check myself because I often internally confuse games I played with Alison and Anne internally and mix them up.

Now that I've done that I've concluded the game I was thinking of was indeed with Alison and so I feel comfortable in saying a great majority of my problem with Alison this game stems from her treatment of Roxy and how it has internally pinged me as a recreation of the way I was treated by Alison in King of the Hill mafia. It's possible that maybe I would've been treated similarly if Alison was in fact town in that game but I haven't felt like Alison's attempts to engage Roxy were done to solve Roxy or find common ground or understanding I've felt that Alison's approach to Roxy was designed to illicit a negative emotional response that she could than paint as a wolfy response in a very similar way to how I felt Alison was attempting to illicit a negative response instead of try to understand or engage or solve me in King of the Hill.

I do not think that approach is towny. If I'm wrong I'd love for people to help me see where my thoughts are diverging from reality.

I don't necessarily think you are wrong about Alison tbh. I think Alison could be mafia, the problem with that is I have is that she has said nothing I can particularly call her out on. ie. My tinfoil instincts and my brain are at odds. Like my initial reaction to her posts was that I was reading wolf Alison, so I tried to gotcha her on her Kate read, but then ... she was just correct there tbh and Kate has only gotten wolfier. Then she kept choosing the side of most logic every time I read her. And there's like a schism between a mini faction of like Baudib, SPF, her and I who have a large amount of alignment on reads and a whole bunch of people who feel like absolute bullshit artists and your perspectives are more aligned to theirs (Jack, Wilgy, Falcon, you).

I'm not convinced you're mafia, but I am convinced that if you are town that you really are not challenging your own logic and keep throwing ideas out into the thread and I keep wanting to kill you for everything you say lol.

Thank you Mac.

So like am I wrong to be concerned about the similarities between these two plays because Alison will simply do this identical play irregardless of alignment and because outside of that she's simply been towny?

If anything I think you have Alison caught for the wrong reasons if you do yes. What you are suspecting her for is within her townrange. If she is mafia, I believe she is townsiding and frankly is more likely to be mafia with at least some of those who she is having conflict with in the thread.

Alison kind have has two wolf operating models (with obviously a lot of nuance). Hard wolfside and deep wolf.

Hard wolfside Alison, usually a mode she chooses because of lifestyle factors such as busyness etc, makes up reads, essentially dooming herself to a day 2/3 (sometimes 4) endgame, but with the intent of ruining the town morale, killing townies that shouldn't die and spewing her team clear. You could argue that what you are describing is aligned to that, except for the fact that I (and Baudib and SPF, who are probably town imo), am vibing with her play. When she is in this mode, her day 1 has the inverse effect to what it is having on me right now. I have an overwhelming desire to kill her when she chooses this play style.

Deepwolf Alison, will generally townside a fair bit harder at least optically. She will only push scummy town and in liue of that will spend a lot of time burying scummy teammates. She usually draws the line at outright bussing and often can be caught in this mode by shifting her agenda later in the day away from a townsiding outcome and more towards a wolfsiding outcome.

Alison plays mafia like chess as either alignment and can be read clearer through agenda than on play as most of her tactics appear in her play regardless of her alignment. On day 1 as mafia she is planning the mafia team's endgame and all the days between. So if she is mafia, simply reading her so because she is being a bitch to someone is far too level 1 of a read to actually catch her for. I say that full well knowing you might be right and I might be wrong about her alignment lol. Because at the end of the day, it's not a good read unless you can persuade the rest of the town you're right about it even if you are.

Persuading the rest of town is never my intent but thank you this helps me greatly.

There's still a tinfoil where I worry you and her may be w/w but I'll back off for now.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I think I vote yes for letting lucy call the exe

this sounds a lot like kingmaker and i'm not a fan of it as a concept

is there a difference between them or

Day 1 is a crapshoot most of the time. Town have the least amount of information, the mafia are in full form and have the most thread control generally. I'd rather one confirmed town choose, than what is essentially the mafia most of the time.

What makes confirmed town Lucy any more likely to actually get the correct result than just any other name out of a hat though?

Like is it simply because we know she's town and it doesn't matter she may kill a really important towny just as much as you or I would?

Because any other name out of a hat has a chance of having mafia in it obviously lol.

Indeed. My problem being I don't see a reason to trust IC Lucy more than myself. I know I'm town and I don't entirely agree with Lucy.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

okay nice x-post

neon i think the main thing im interested in hearing from u right now is just the strongest reads u have in either direction

The fact that I happened to be on a post from you at the time you said that is both ironic and a coincidence but hey I'll take it.

My way of finding scum is weird but sure.

I don't actually have a strong TR at this point outside of Lucy which is weird and frustrating in that my style is to find town and work down from there to find scum. So I'm in a weird position where I'm working out of a position of discomfort in juxtaposition to how I'd prefer to play the game.

My strongest SR right now I think is Alison/Mac I just think they've been treating people poorly for bad reasons and are digging in their heels in a way that feels less like trying to solve the game and more like trying to make people look bad for things that aren't really that bad.

That is an awfully specific thing to accuse two separate people of being. Kinda feels like bullshit.

Dunno kinda feels like real to me.

So wanna tell me why me being me is suddenly such a bad way to play mafia compared to every other FM we've played?

I'm not going to sit here and claim I have better meta knowledge of how you play than you yourself do. If you are town, I am seeing quite a different town Neon than what I am used to seeing at the very least emotionally (and therefore tonally).

My mental model of town Neon has keywords in it like: colourful, diffident, self-critical, deferential, memeish, inconsistent, scattered.

What I am seeing here is: guarded, defensive, forceful, insistent, courageous.

Hmmm. Fair actually. Do you think those feelings might come from an increased self confidence I'm feeling in light of the final game of Nooks mafia league. A game which I consider to be my single greatest town game ever?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Percentage chance of a Mac/Alison W/W world? Like anyone else think that's a possibility right meow? Because it's something I'm buying into more and more during reread.

I retract my neon scumread.

Remember when

Pepperidge farm remembers

[fingersplints]

Here's the patented Mac rub.

A lot of people are less playing mafia with a town process and more throwing out thought bubbles and have perspectives that make my lip curl up and make me wish they were playing a different mafia game I'm not in. I begrudge nobody for suspecting or hating the play of these folks.

Wilgy
Jack
Neon
Tutuu
Seanzie
Falcon
Creature

Then there are people who are just like ... not doing much of anything and aren't really redeemable but for whatever reason it seems like there's a moratorium on suspecting them.

Roxy
Finger
Kate

Then there are some players who aren't doing much but they kinda town.

Bereft
Porscha
Dennis

And then there's everyone else. We shall call them "folks who appear to be playing a game of mafia and not a game of scrabble". I like all of them and if you are voting them ur a nerd.

If your name is in the top group and you are town please have a strong coffee, freshly evaluate the game and make some posts that are designed purposefully to be read and understood by a belligerent old townie person so I can stop hating your existence.

Thanks.

“Not doing much of anything”
It’s day 1. Chill

[Porscha]

I made it part way thru page 17 but it is way too late to continue see you guys on the flip side

[fingersplints]

I keep losing where I am so I’m still skimming random pages, might go back to looking at specific people instead. No strong suspicions to discuss yet but my good feels list is up to Sean, sig, Neon, tutuu, and falcon. I see there is mention of lucy being IC, so after I look into that she can probably go on that list too

[tutuu]

i skimmed thru porscha's iso and i really really really really wanna kill her

[VOTE: porscha] aubergine

anyone experienced with her pls tell me how is she town? whats up?

[Baudib1]

I think we actually need 2 good wagons because the GF cannot be chopped.

So we have a lot of work to do to get to two good wagons.
@lucy @MacDougall @Alison

[tutuu]

Somebody do something to make me feel something.

I'm listening to Easy to Tame by Kim Mitchell, and got Rich Gurl by Hall & Oates qued up next.



Get hyped.



What's your take on Wilgy?

lol I think DrWilgy had a wolf list that feels like it's 0/3 so he can go

agree / retract my scumread on creature

I havent loved creature so far but this feels pockety towards him mostly because I already thought it was a weird sentiment from him but now you agree
But also why would mac want to pocket creature
...................... maybe I should just assume I'm not seeing what you're seeing and its townier than my instincts say it is
I imagine you'll explain the wilgy reads thing in a further post so I won't ask for now

like this post is saying everything and nothing. its representing a slight shade on mac and creature and then she apologizes 10 times for the inconvenience

shes dedicating a lot of her posts to say that shes catching up, could be her character thing, could be scum busywork

i skimmed thru her iso again and i dont rly see much reads or stuff. could be her personality could be that shes mafia

[tutuu]

I think we actually need 2 good wagons because the GF cannot be chopped.

So we have a lot of work to do to get to two good wagons.
@lucy @MacDougall @Alison

i assumed if godfather is top wagon day just ends in no chop

if thats the case baudi is slipped town for thinking the second most voted wagon gets chopped

[RondoDimBuckle]

Oh fuck I completely forgot I was going to ISO someone for Seanzie.

Spoiler: show

(Who by the way if Mac is wolf is probably wolf)

Initially Seanzie was town on Bau from 12:48pm my time (Mac too)

Strongly town reads him till tutuu doesnt like it and flips at 7:06am my time (18 hours ish of town time)

Defends Jack (Who I think is fairly in both town and wolf meta) against Bau and fairly asks for a proper breakdown of his thoughts then votes

Beau proceeds to quote a bunch of jokes from Jack about how we should yeet him to determine his alignment and a bunch of meme rvs stage sus. (Mostly pushes on Alison)

Seanzie Soft/hard defends Jack depending on how you read it. (fairly pointing out that Jack is putting some good pressure on Alison. Albeit pointless pressure because Alison is likely to crack to that and Jack knows it)

Sean drops a reads list

lucy

tutuu

MacDougall
Roxy
Jackofhearts2005
Creature
Porscha
falcon45ca

fingersplints
Alison
Bereft
DrWilgy
sig
RondoDimBuckle
Neon

Kate
Baudib1
Dennis
staypositivefriend

TBH if he is a wolf here I would put him / alison / mac together so far possibly with two of Roxy / Neon / Jack but this is a malformed idea and just as I am going through his ISO

Seanzie fairly asking Beau to point out specific points in his argument where Jack caught Flak

Not sure if Seanzie actually feels the way he does to Bau because a lot of his pushes feel fake to me but that is just a play difference between me and him so he probably means it.

Beau doubles down on the troll comments on Jack with no actual posts to back him up. Sean comes prepared with a smack down of facts (from his pov)

Beau reasponds with nonsense and nonsense ensues

Then we have a mindmeld about Alison and he asks me to ISO Beu.

All in all fairly scummy vibes from Beau (But I will reserve judgement for after I have ISO'ed him)

=========


first > chivalry under pressure > calling out Lucy as Zealot not a good look > says he has experience with Lucy/Creature/Jack as well in the next post (Which probably explains why he is focusing on Jack a lot but I dont think he has piped up about creature which is strange since creature has been on the B L O C K) > offers to vote me and lose the game > defends seanzies read list (good look) > calls Mac Max lol > gets caught in my vote trap lol > Calls falcon wolf (such an easy call) > calls tutuu wolf > calls Alison town and says he will sheep her but is currently voting with [checks thread..] not Alison > pointless pfp talk > defends creature and attacks falcon who is defending creatures attack on wilgy > says Falcon should be reading wilgy as wolf (Another one, lots of wolves in this game) > says he wants to vote Mac (another wolf) > no opinions on reads list (someone says later that not having opinions on reads list that you have on wolves is weird which I agree with) > encourages Lucy / Rondo violence > Jack is apparently agressively null (???) > pulling back on his sheep of alison > Jack is now voteable (in the space of 3 posts and 20 minutes from null to yeetable?) > tries to drum up more anti mac sentiment > Then agrees to Alisons statement that Mac is off limits day 1(WHAT?!?!?!?) > Kate, Rondo, Jack, Falcon, Dr Wilgy (Ladies and gentlemen. We got him. At best I think 2 wolves in here) > Back to Alison ride or die > says wolf creature wouldnt treat him the way he has this game and then locks in a creature town read > jumps on Alison gunning for Jack > doubles down on creature town > specifically states to SPF that he is not paticularly good at day 1 but he has been gunning hard fmpov pushing people as fact so either he is lying to SPF or he is lying to himself > Just accepts the hard claim from Lucy with an off the cuff 'oh I town read her anyway' when he was previously angling to off her > says Lucy was trying to draw heat and had a trump card OBVIOUSLY and yet I did not? Interesting > feeling again for a Jack yeet > calls himself and Alison w/w which I am inclined to believe at this point > says he could be w/w with anyone > hard push on jack again (keep in mind he is bad at day 1s. Also Jack/Bau w/w feelings rising) and pushes a false if you're not with me you're against me on jack > posts a reads list:

I like these people:
Lucy
Alison
Creature
SPF
Bereft

Don’t like these people
Falcon
Rondo
DrWilgy
Kate
Jack

same 5 he was pushing earlier 0 deviance just a different order, does this feel like someone who is evaluating their reads or someone with an agenda? Getting pretty confbiased now.

Rolls back his STRONG Wilgy sus to a 'not so strong' wilgy sus > the back and forth of Seanzie and Bau I talked about above > tries a falcon push asking anyone calling him town to come justify themselves > pocket attempt on Mac > quotes the wrong post at mac and instead of fixing it with the next post says he misquoted and didnt even include the proper quote (????Post count wasteage?) > Another push on Jack saying he never leaves Troll mode (for someone who knows Jack well this is such a weird attack fmpov) > defends Alison again and attacks Falcon. Maybe w/w/w(?) > Attempting to pocket Mac some more to get him to talk more about Alison (Feels very: Talk more about my wolf buddy in a good light, this will be a surprise tool for later) "Mac, can you elaborate on why Alison is OK but her suspicions are based on horseshit/opportunistic? Like I kinda feel you but talk me through it.
" > pretends to not notice my claim apparently and makes a push on me. Very anti town > says everyone else is more villagery, everyone, even fingers who has posted almost nothing (maybe she had at this point) or Porscha who posted a bit and dipped > weird attack on my reads calling them non serious except he has no clue who the fuck I am but he is super confident about me talking out my ass about a read on Seanzie (Remember, he is not so good at his Day 1's) > again has no read on a reads list on someone who he wolf reads (??) > wont respond to stupid obvious answers and throws more sus at myself and Falcon > agrees with creature that the wagon of 4 on Alison of Jack / Dennis / Sig / Neon should be completely nuked (1 wolf on it, leaning Jack/Neon) > tries to drum up more Anti Rondo sentiment by saying I am holding the game Hostage for refusing to Engage on a non profitable conversation for town > Falcon may be on to something with Alison / Creature / Baudi / Wilgy + me but I know I am town post below

Alison, Creature, Rondo, Baudi, Wilgy



That's been the pretty consistent wagons thus far this RD. Baudi thinks these are spectacularly bad...despite SR Wilgy for sure, and certainly shading Rondo...that's 2/5 he should have no issue w/ flipping, yet he acts like we've got spectacularly bad wagons.


I don't see how a town thinks like this

Really, 2/4 wagons, cuz I'm sure he doesn't want his own flip.


Half the wagons are for players he's been shading or outright SR...I don't see that as a Town mindset at all

Bruh u cannot get me lynched.

First off it was me Creature and Alison and the town Oracle said she wanted to nuke the wagons so if you don’t think it can be a town POV take it up with our PR. Wilgy became a wagon because Lucy asked for it.

This I was quiet about at the time of the posting but I really thought Falcon hit the nail on the head here and Bau's response was not good > specifically YOU can not get me lynched is quite an interesting choice of words > Another attack on Jack and a defense on Alison and creature > says he isnt attacking seanzie in the previous post but then throws sus on Seanzie using Jacks posts > deflects a Mac(x) attack with a dismissive TMI and when Mac presses defends saying he wasnt really pocketed by Alison > Says Mac's post is 9/10 (As a pretense to....)> Defends Alisons wagon again but has nothing to say about any of the other 3 possible wagons I mention > pushes jack again > Neon states that PR's can be wrong and gets called a wolf in response > (.... do this!) flip his heavy scum read on me to a town read for an UNRESOLVED CC > takes me out of the wolf core and puts Neon in > drumming up more Jack attack from tutuu > defends Alison to Neon.

I dunno. I went into this wanting to town read him, predicting I would town read him. Not just because he is just so WRONG on my slot and pushing people for reasons I see as NAI in this climate but for things that only people who would know me wouldnt push me for and on top of that Mac town reads him so I want to just ignore the slot but Seanzie asked and I did the work and FUCK ME all I saw was Agenda.

@MacDougall
@Alison
@lucy
@Seanzie

[VOTE: Bau] aubergine

holy shit someone come rescue me from my confbias because this is atrocious

[Baudib1]

Rondo, the problem you’re having is that Jack is an obvious wolf and I am not.

[RondoDimBuckle]

Rondo, the problem you’re having is that Jack is an obvious wolf and I am not.

Amazing response. I spend the last hour reading through your ISO and giving a considered approach and you meme at me in response. Interesting. Not town.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Rondo, the problem you’re having is that Jack is an obvious wolf and I am not.

So you are a wolf though? Just not an obvious one?

[Baudib1]

Rondo, the problem you’re having is that Jack is an obvious wolf and I am not.

Amazing response. I spend the last hour reading through your ISO and giving a considered approach and you meme at me in response. Interesting. Not town.

I can’t really respond to your thoughts because you misinterpreted everything, including the fact that I said you were town.

I’ll take one small thing, which is that Falcon did not hit the nail on the head when he said my mindset isn’t town because I pointed out I was echoing the opinion of our IC, who is town. So take that under consideration and blow up the rest of your post because you’re being (perhaps willfully) obtuse.

I am not going to bother responding to any more of your nonsense.

[tutuu]

baudi 100% confirmed lock town ok im gonna reserve my last 3 posts
(he's town for that one line reply to rondo and probably town slipped from the godfather thing)

lucy
baudib1
neon
mac

spf
seanzie
rondo

alison
bereft
jackieboy
dennis
wilgy

roxy
sig
kate
falcon
fingersplint
creature

porscha

i rly dont have any scumreads on the yellow peeps but i fr think porscha is mafia pls KILL HER i want her DEAD. BLOOD. MURDER

[tutuu]

fuck me man i cant hold myself

roxy is town for not returning to post. if shes mafia with 4 other peeps she will feel some obligation to not let them down. shes a solo agent. she got upset and dipped.

it feels brave af but im gonna do it, im gonna put her at lock town. blue color. i wanna live life to its fullest. do what i want. say what i want. thats the only way to live. hell yeah. feels good man. roxy 100% town

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

It's cap babyyyy!

Okay so I seriously didn't realize I'd posted this much. I'd appreciate it if people would still engage what I wrote before I capped so y'all can talk about it.

And I'll be reading and keeping up

Legacy readssss

Totally real no cap reads.


Don't kill ----

PLAYER LIST

Alison (she/her)

Creature (he/him)
Dennis (he/him)
falcon45ca (he/him)
Jackofhearts2005 (he/him)
lucy (she/her)
MacDougall (he/him)
Neon (she/her)
Porscha (she/her)
RondoDimBuckle (any/Rondo)
Roxy (she/her)
Seanzie (he/him or they/them)
staypositivefriend (she/her)
tutuu (any)


For meow.

If your not there I probably don't care if your the execution or something.

I love you all go town go we will kill a mafia today I believe!

[DrWilgy]

Hello, good evening.

Just checking in as I haven't really read since I left earlier, just did some quick skimming.

@lucy, you advised people off Alison and onto me. Why me in particular? I don't think I saw the reason if it was given.

@MacDougall what's your read on Neon? How about Falcon? Why?

Why do you ask?

I don't think I need to provide a reason here. Why would I? Are we playing 5d chess?

[falcon45ca]

Current leans

@sig wolf? (GTH Wolf) === Why did you try to undermine my Mac town read? Why are you defending Falcon? Why are you giving me a day 1 pass in a game about suspicion and deceit? What specifically do you like about Sean / Baud's post? When do you plan on doing any actual solving?
@staypositivefriend dunno (GT
(A) Kate > (B) Sig > (C) Lucy > (D)(One of Alison/Mac)

A - if kate flips wolf, analyse spew (or lack of and continue with kill list)
B - if Sig flips wolf, analyse spew (or lack of and continue with kill list)
C - if lucy flips wolf, anal- win the game


A - if kate flips town > kill counter wagon and so on till finding wolf and then kill most towny player day 4 if 3 consecutive non wolf hits (Hence D. Mac/Alison)
B - as above but +1 day
C - as above but +2 days

Spoiler: show

Or you can ignore all of this Im not your mum

First, I don’t like the level of tie in you’re attempting to do this early on, pre any flips. A lot of assumptions are being made and I find that this is more commonly a tactic used by mafia. Especially early game since it allows you to post a lot but say very little.

I alreayd answered the falcon question when talking to him, but basically he’s misvoted a lot and I don’t see much to see why he’s mafia. His posts (up to where I was which was around 10am today) are all pretty normal.

Mac is someone who we shouldn’t hardcore read town day 1 and I said why in my post. I’m not liking some of your questions especially this one since I answered it upfront? Seems like you’re just fishing for a reason to vote for me right now.

The other two were gut feels I like their playstyle so far.

I was against voting you day 1 since I wasn’t seeing the reasons and it seems like you’re misvoted alot.


Now my questions for you.

Why is it odd that I don’t want people to Town Read Mac for doing almost nothing, BUT, it’s also odd for me to not want to vote you out since “this is a game of deception”? You’re Basically making two totally counter arguments/point that don’t fit together at all. This + you questioning me about Mac is raising some flags

Rondo is Maf, so is Mac

Can you... can you elaborate where you're getting this idea from

Mac's outta the gate solve energy pinged me (tho less so atm), and Rondo's big player list o' reads is trash, and I've given thoughts as to why.

[DrWilgy]

Wilgy is an obvwolf for asking pointless questions and adding zero original thought to the thread.

I'd like to point out that this one is just objectively wrong.

I came into the thread when the main discourse was Alison's claim on Kate, but provided data that was likely important to Creature/Seanzie and Lucy's alignment while also providing feedback on players that had a flow that put them a town lean.

Hell, alot of my time following was trying to figure out if creature was being disingenuous with the push back on me.

Where were you when that was going on other than saying I was a wolf with no reason?

Now I don't know if this is a W aligned push or related to something that isn't being stated from your perspective, but I'd like to be filled in to decide. I think there's a scenario where your sr makes sense but I haven't seen you present this yet. Hell I may have even missed it as I haven't done any in depth reading since yesterday.

[DrWilgy]

wilgy - i thought towny for that derp. wilgy always hard af to read, i dont got nothing better, probably never will

I'd advise against town points for a derptell. I'm stupid either alignment.

[falcon45ca]

okay nice x-post

neon i think the main thing im interested in hearing from u right now is just the strongest reads u have in either direction

The fact that I happened to be on a post from you at the time you said that is both ironic and a coincidence but hey I'll take it.

My way of finding scum is weird but sure.

I don't actually have a strong TR at this point outside of Lucy which is weird and frustrating in that my style is to find town and work down from there to find scum. So I'm in a weird position where I'm working out of a position of discomfort in juxtaposition to how I'd prefer to play the game.

My strongest SR right now I think is Alison/Mac I just think they've been treating people poorly for bad reasons and are digging in their heels in a way that feels less like trying to solve the game and more like trying to make people look bad for things that aren't really that bad.

That is an awfully specific thing to accuse two separate people of being. Kinda feels like bullshit.

If I were to play the woofs the most likely mafia on each wagon right now game I'm going

Sig on Alison

Tutuu on Bau

Mac on Creature

Alison off wagon.

That'd be a pretty bad ass wolf team lol

These are the ways that it's possible for you to have these reads.

1. You have excercised no actual process for finding mafia as town, and are just tinfoiling the deepest wolf possible because you are playing with your lizard brain on for some reason and think you're watching reality television.

2. You are mafia.

Dude, it's not bullshit, and you give an example of what she's talking about minutes later.


I don't know what bee's in your bonnet, or who took the jelly outta your donut, but you're cranky AF this game & kinda treating people like a douche.


But maybe that's just my opinion...oh wait, no it's not.

[DrWilgy]

So kate is dennis's mom. Thats just too wholesome. My mom has also expressed interest in playing mafia. She cant speak english. But its just too adorable. How can i vote kate. If my mom was playing with me how could i vote her?

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

If my mom played she'd be my d1 policy vote and my n1 policy yeet.

Well she NKd me last game so that was nice of her

My point stands. Rather to yeet thy mother than to become yoted thyself.

[falcon45ca]

So the tie news isn’t great, having said that I think one of these three wagons are definitely mafia. We just have to consolidate a bit more on which it is

Who of the 3 and why?

[falcon45ca]

So kate is dennis's mom. Thats just too wholesome. My mom has also expressed interest in playing mafia. She cant speak english. But its just too adorable. How can i vote kate. If my mom was playing with me how could i vote her?

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

If my mom played she'd be my d1 policy vote and my n1 policy yeet.

Well she NKd me last game so that was nice of her

My point stands. Rather to yeet thy mother than to become yoted thyself.

Mac thinks your read list is trash...what is your read list btw? Maybe it is, but I'd like to have a fresh update if ya don't mind

[DrWilgy]

@DrWilgy Join my town core homie

Considering I'm not going to attempt the same stupid shit I did in felt, I'll just catch you mid game if this is a pocket attempt, otherwise I like this 2 way town core read.

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: kate] aubergine

[falcon45ca]

@DrWilgy Join my town core homie

Considering I'm not going to attempt the same stupid shit I did in felt, I'll just catch you mid game if this is a pocket attempt, otherwise I like this 2 way town core read.

Dude, I'd never use a Barry Manilow song to town core with...prolly Spandau Ballet, or Tears for Fears

[Seanzie]

My tinfoil is that Jack and Alison are w/w.

What do you think of Baudib's assertion that Jack has done nothing but troll?

Especially in light of this read.

[falcon45ca]

I guess the players I actually townread are Baudib1, Neon and Seanzie. Maybe lucy too but need more from her.

Wilgy asked why, but did we get an answer on that to this TR list?

Alison
DrWilgy
Kate
RondoDimBuckle
sig
tutuu

should contain wolves

A list of 6 in a game this size should have a wolf in it, that's just the odds. Why does this list contain a wolf...what is it about these players that make you think there's scum in the pile?


You said wolves, so Imma assume that's an intentional plural use, and that you think there's more than one.

[DrWilgy]

So kate is dennis's mom. Thats just too wholesome. My mom has also expressed interest in playing mafia. She cant speak english. But its just too adorable. How can i vote kate. If my mom was playing with me how could i vote her?

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

If my mom played she'd be my d1 policy vote and my n1 policy yeet.

Well she NKd me last game so that was nice of her

My point stands. Rather to yeet thy mother than to become yoted thyself.

Mac thinks your read list is trash...what is your read list btw? Maybe it is, but I'd like to have a fresh update if ya don't mind

From my skim the main things I've absorbed is data from the Roxy Alison thing and that's that Roxy is town.

Baudib, Lucy and Mac I'm trying to sort. Lucy and Mac would know that I'm a frequent misyeet and their pushes feel very undefined.

I did feel nothing of a tell from Jack and that was weird.

I think I feel better about Creature but that's kinda entirely up to Baudibs alignment. I don't see scum piling on Kate, so there's likely only 1 in the 5 involved in that early wagon.

[DrWilgy]

Alright, I'm caught up now.

Town are Baudib, Bereft, Dennis, Falcon, Neon, Porscha, Rondo, SPF, Tutuu

Wolves in Lucy, Seanzie, Creature

Wilgy is mafia

K. Good post mate.

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: kate] aubergine

I'd join this wagon. I don't see Baudib going over here, and while I think they should be strongly scrutinized, I'm tempted to drop them for now.

I'mma vote Kate, then ISO Kate... because that's the correct order, right? [VOTE: Kate] aubergine

[Bereft]

Im bored.

So.

Dr.Wilgy,

You haven't appeared to notice that I've voted you and I've been your only voter for as long as I've been paying attebtion, if lucy was on you, they must've been there only briefly. Secondly, what's up your Seanzie vote? You've never bothered to develop that one, your opinion just went poof into thin air.

[DrWilgy]

Porscha town due to feeling comfortable and posting analysis already in this playerlist

This looks like a clean attempt to pocket imo.

I've considered it, but since I dont really think it makes a lot of sense for lucy to make the post about try harding (especially cuz I think she is aware that myself and likely some other players here see her try hard more as wolf and not as town) if shes wolfing, I already mentally had her sorted to the town side unless something egregious changes
But maybe I'm just happy to not have the mislynch train on me early for once so whatever it can be a tentative tr that I'll keep in mind

Why does try hard Lucy equate to perceived wolf reads?

Idk if being concerned with the wagon not being on you is AI or not for you specifically. Like, I know you very much dislike when the wagon is on you wrongly (re felt) but I also generally consider wolves to be more immediately mindful of "let's not let the wagon fall on me."

[DrWilgy]

Im bored.

So.

Dr.Wilgy,

You haven't appeared to notice that I've voted you and I've been your only voter for as long as I've been paying attebtion, if lucy was on you, they must've been there only briefly. Secondly, what's up your Seanzie vote? You've never bothered to develop that one, your opinion just went poof into thin air.

I noticed the vote but didn't see anything in the thread while post dashing, I'm still catching up on notifications from page 10. Figured I'd get to it when I do.

I still think Seanzie can be in the wolf range as of now. That may change as I did believe at least his take on me. It seems that there's more of a hesitation towards my slot that idk if a wolf would have UNLESS I was right on the money with my early read.

I think wolves are more inclined to post like Mac regarding my slot especially if they are familiar with me.

[DrWilgy]

I don’t have any opinions on anyone’s reads lists.

That's concerning to the point of me doubting it's truth.

@Creature, we just going to ignore my reasons for my wr list that I posted earlier?

I think I don't know creatures wolf range well enough, I can postulate both "maybe I'm in argument with a town that communicates differently from my expectations" and "damn, creature is putting down some scummy posts."

The things you are choosing to focus on and talk about and place importance on just don't feel like relevant and town mindset things to me.

Ah, yes, let's just invalidate the data.

[Seanzie]

Also from my limited games with rondo he seems to be playing within his civ meta right now so probably wouldn’t want to vote their today

Just read through once and I for now agree on this. This is almost identical to the way he opened the last game and he was civ. Unless of course, he's doing that to make us think that... anyway nothing about his gameplay pings me thus far.

Lots of pings in this thread for a cold day 1 from many people. I'll have to reread tomorrow for any deeper thoughts.

I agree with SPF that this is a super unexciting game so far. I am just gonna vote the easiest wolf to catch and try to break the game open with associatives.

[VOTE: Kate] aubergine

Also from my limited games with rondo he seems to be playing within his civ meta right now so probably wouldn’t want to vote their today

Just read through once and I for now agree on this. This is almost identical to the way he opened the last game and he was civ. Unless of course, he's doing that to make us think that... anyway nothing about his gameplay pings me thus far.

Lots of pings in this thread for a cold day 1 from many people. I'll have to reread tomorrow for any deeper thoughts.

Explain to me what's obvscum about this post

She agrees with Rondo meta, immediately undermines her own view, then promises a future reread (a reread? Thread was literally 2 pages) that has to happen before she gives any deeper thoughts. It's a waffly nothingburger of a post.

It was not deep like I said, I had a long day and wanted to do a quick read through. I'm not used to day 1s with this much posting. Our games used to start off slow. While reading the only thing that popped out to me was that Rondo did the same thing in 2 games in a row, which I noted. I have 1 game with him before this game, so I can't be positive that is AI I wanted to reread it and see what others thought.

Kate went from "Lots of pings" to "The only thing that stood out to me was the thing I already mentioned". I don't like this. I don't see how to interpret the "lots of pings" as genuine.

I agree with SPF that this is a super unexciting game so far. I am just gonna vote the easiest wolf to catch and try to break the game open with associatives.

[VOTE: Kate] aubergine

??? I think I've made 2 posts. Why are you looking at me?

Not a good reaction to early pressure.

Alright, I'm caught up now.

Town are Baudib, Bereft, Dennis, Falcon, Neon, Porscha, Rondo, SPF, Tutuu

Wolves in Lucy, Seanzie, Creature

What about me?

This is a level 0 good look for Kate.

I think Roxy is town. They're being too deliberately provocative.

it's clearly their natural personality and won't change regardless of their alignment

that's like townreading mac for being loud or me for being direct

You do not even know me but your are clearly wrong. Buh-bye.

Yeah, I'm sure you immediately become polite and soft-spoken when you see the red role PM hit your inbox.

You couldn't be more wrong about that. And I absolutely know more about her than you do.

How's that? No waffle

I don't want to read into Kate/Roxy since if they wolf together, they're more likely to hard defend each other than bus, but also I think Kate could defend Roxy here regardless of alignment.

This ends Kate's ISO. She has been AFK for a pretty sizable amount of D1.

I stand by my vote on Kate. I think she had an awkward entrance, reacted poorly to pressure, has been mostly gone, and I can only give her one small town-point across her 15 posts. As it stands, this slot is a good elim IMO.

I think if Kate flips wolf, Alison could still possibly be a wolf here, but would not be my main concern D2 or probably even D3.

[Seanzie]

I really don't like @Dennis's vote on Alison.

Dennis, why you voting Alison?

[DrWilgy]

So Mac read: being purposely obstinate towards my slot has me thinking wolf, or at least it would had it been anyone else.

I've noticed the same behavior toward Falcon. Not sure if that's relevant.

Mac has called me a wolf on the premise of not believing what I'm posting rather than seek the truth in an effort to solve what I've posted about.

Mac has attempted to invalidate my reads and contributions to the thread as well.

All in all feels very anti town. However, I'd not vote Mac until it's either needed or I've confirmed teammate associations as I've felt this same anti town behavior from Mac before and have been wrong about it. Mac has a tendency to be more careful as wolf I think.

Mac is probably just town. We will see. This behavior could be a response to me being correct about a teammate. I'd call this a 42% accuracy read.

[DrWilgy]

Ehhh... Actually 40% Mac being a pain in the ass could just be his attempt to actually break through the inability for anyone to read me.

Soft town the more I think about it.

I would still like the data on their perspective re Neon and Falcon though.

[Kate]

Guys I'm sorry I've been absent. In either alignment I'm usually much more invested than this and I'm really excited about this set up. However my whole family is getting over covid and the baby is not sleeping. Everything I get on here there are hundreds more posts. I just can't keep up.

[DrWilgy]

@Kate I hope you and the family recover quickly and feel better.

If you'd like some foot holds, can you chime in on what you think regarding Seanzies post above?

Also can you ISO Dennis and Roxy and let me know what you think?