The Syndicate

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I was never clear on what Ricochet did to win.

All nine independent prisoners had the same win con (get paroled). We set it up so that every prisoner could actually choose via PM to me someone else to "break out" with them, and JJJ chose Ricochet.

Likewise, G-Man chose timmer.

We asked everyone whether they wanted to stay in the main game or leave, as well, and secretly were restricting it so that only one prisoner max per parole could remain in the game. So when JJJ told me he wanted to remain, it didn't matter whether Rico wanted to or not, since JJJ got first choice, and thus Rico had to leave regardless of his preference.

All right, I see that.

I was never clear on what Ricochet did to win.

Sloonei wrote:A part of me wishes I hadn't signed up for this game so that I could have gone to prison.

We tried to get you there twice.

juliets wrote:I think my account is cleared out now and Moving Pictures and Spacedaisy I just want to add my voice to say I greatly enjoyed the prison and it's challenges. The non-participants were frustrating but that was not your doing. I really had fun trying to guess who everyone was. The only one I got was Typhoony though.

Wait, we had men and women fraternizing in the same prison? What sinful business is this?

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:My supreme confidence should have tipped people in that I might know something that they do not. There is rarely a situation where I would concede.

At the time I was assuming there was no possible way we could lose, so your apparent concession made perfect sense. Even when I saw the game had ended, my first thought was that you had officially conceded.

Had this been a standard setup, there would have been no way we could win. I am of the opinion that Mafia should not end in process of elimination. Bad guys should be able to deceive to win rather than be outed due to mechanics at endgame. My very first civilian win occurred because I was virtually kill-proof, and because I kept a spreadsheet (a real one ) noting who could and could not be a killer. Due to the rules and mechanics, this made it a cinch to figure out logically who the last killer was. It was an excellent logic puzzle, but it made it impossible for the last killer to convince anyone to lynch anybody else.

Fortunately, a mechanic I was most leery of coming into this turned out to be our greatest boon. With no focus on eliminating opposing Dons, however, we kept telling ourselves, "The Dons are still alive, the Dons are still alive." I would have assumed that the Capo & Crew, when given a kill, would have tried to work out who the opposing Don was. That's why I thought Dom got popped- he survived a lynch, Capo & Crew got a kill and bam.

I even told MP that, on paper, this was the most difficult setup I've ever seen for mafia to win:

-Two all-but invincible roles with BTSC (Dons)
-A way to clear those Dons in the thread (Traitors)
-Two sets of BTSC trios (Capo & Crew)
-Potential additional BTSC (Lovers)
-Four civilian ninjas (Hitmen and Capo & Crew)
-Two civilians with built-in auto-protects (Stool Pigeons)
-A mass resurrection that includes a number of non-players and in which a civilian-friendly independent (3J of all people) stays permanently (Prison Break)
-And then a second (!) mass resurrection.

So I was pleased that not only were we able to last as long as we did, but that we could reach a point where, even if the rest of our team got lynched one phase after the next, we were in a position to win by sheer attrition.

Prisoner 958153 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:How about that warden post at four in the morning, heh?

I remember how you went through all of our timezones for viability, but I don't think you included yourself

Another thing I should've called you out on in hindsight.

I'm a school teacher on the east coast. I'm always asleep during that time.

However, I had fallen asleep in my chair during the prison break, woke up at 4ish, and realized I could post.

I did.

I hadn't read anything at all. How funny it was to see that I had posted "So you think you've got me figured out" right after Prisoner 920 made a huge case against me!

How about that warden post at four in the morning, heh?

Quin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Quin wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Quin, a few times you said stuff MP and I were looking at each other and asking, "how does he KNOW that!?" The last time I finally just asked you why you thought what you said, because I was just so shocked. You figured a lot of mechanics out on your own.

I'm a pretty awful scum reader but I guess I'm not half at this sort of thing

I'd say that Silverwolf was the MVP this game. She was right about both ika and Epi and it's a shame that nobody listened.

This just reminded me that back on Day 2, the main wagons were Epi, Fuzz and ika so we had our pick of three different mafia members. We were looking so great back then but we ruined ourselves.

That led to my question in BTSC: "How the fuck did we end up with 21 votes in the span of half an hour?"

After a successful Fuzz lynch, sig's preferred avenue is to lynch the runners up of Day 2. This is still his position. According to sig, this is how Day 2 looks:

Epignosis - Cop
3
Metalmarsh89 (8), a2thezebra (9), DrWilgy (10) 10%

ika -Undercover Cop
9
Quin (5), Nerolunar (6), agleaminranks (11), Soneji (12), Serge (14), RadicalFuzz (16), Enrique (23), Long Con (28), sig (29) 31%

RadicalFuzz - Surveillance Specialist
8
Golden (17), ika (18), Silverwolf (19), indiglo (20), S~V~S (21), Dragon D. Luffy (22), Turnip Head (24), Sloonei (25) 28%

Remember this one, Epi?

I have a new found respect for sig's scumhunting ability.

Yeah man.

I had to roll with the "If it doesn't make sense, it's not true" defense, a.k.a., I had to go Judge Judy on sig.

Quin wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Quin, a few times you said stuff MP and I were looking at each other and asking, "how does he KNOW that!?" The last time I finally just asked you why you thought what you said, because I was just so shocked. You figured a lot of mechanics out on your own.

I'm a pretty awful scum reader but I guess I'm not half at this sort of thing

I'd say that Silverwolf was the MVP this game. She was right about both ika and Epi and it's a shame that nobody listened.

This just reminded me that back on Day 2, the main wagons were Epi, Fuzz and ika so we had our pick of three different mafia members. We were looking so great back then but we ruined ourselves.

That led to my question in BTSC: "How the fuck did we end up with 21 votes in the span of half an hour?"

Serge wrote:The cop team on its early days was quite abysmal, I felt bad for Epignosis who I think scolded us almost every day for not doing anything right. I'm glad you got your win, Epignosis, you deserve it.

I'm a hard driver.

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Totally shocked at the identity of 509378, did not see that coming, much gasping.

I figured it out based on what he's said and his syntax

I caught it almost immediately. You see I didn't vote to parole his ass.

Soneji wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:This was my first time being bad in a long ass while. Felt good.

Sometimes.

You really kicked ass. You and Soneji were the MVPs for sure.

Speaking of which, I'm still amazed that Soneji's double arrest succeeded so many times despite being mathematically improbable.

Soneji had incredible insight to arrest Nerolunar when he did. Were I around, I might have argued him out of it. We had tried to arrest Nerolunar before and it failed, so my thinking was Nerolunar and Sloonei were the Dons, and Turnip Head had one of two lynch stops (like we got).

I triple checked several different things before submitting that and even then I was paranoid about being wrong. I think the main thing for me was that you misread TH's post about you being his Don(he was changing up the classic "brother from another mother" into "Don from another mother") and a post he made after the failed lynch on him, where he worries about being killed(but not arrested). There were other minor things that added to those but they were pretty major ones.

Well fucking A, you hit a home run mate.

Sloonei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:This was my first time being bad in a long ass while. Felt good.

Sometimes.

You really kicked ass. You and Soneji were the MVPs for sure.

Speaking of which, I'm still amazed that Soneji's double arrest succeeded so many times despite being mathematically improbable.

You are a frightening ass civilian to go up against.

You and 3J both on the same page the whole game? I doubted our chance of success many many many times.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:This was my first time being bad in a long ass while. Felt good.

Sometimes.

You really kicked ass. You and Soneji were the MVPs for sure.

Speaking of which, I'm still amazed that Soneji's double arrest succeeded so many times despite being mathematically improbable.

Soneji had incredible insight to arrest Nerolunar when he did. Were I around, I might have argued him out of it. We had tried to arrest Nerolunar before and it failed, so my thinking was Nerolunar and Sloonei were the Dons, and Turnip Head had one of two lynch stops (like we got).

Ricochet wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:So this game is now the 2nd most populous thread in post count throughout all mafia games, with the first still being Talking Heads (which I also co-hosted).

And yet, it's strange how THM still holds on. Back when Arkham was played, I was sure it'd get the honor of surpassing THM, and then it just... ended.

Curse of the THM, yo!

Also, this post-game alone probably has more posts right now than my entire game.

linki: You were bad in Guess Who #bussnosis, so it wasn't that long ass while.

That was nine months ago.

This was my first time being bad in a long ass while. Felt good.

Sometimes.

MovingPictures07 wrote:So this game is now the 2nd most populous thread in post count throughout all mafia games, with the first still being Talking Heads (which I also co-hosted).

I suspected that was your real motive for dragging this shit out.

Ricochet wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:That 10 minute challenge is legendary, prisoners. I frankly regret that I couldn't be there to help you through that madness, but you didn't need me.

I chose the thirty minute challenge and followed it up with the ten minute challenge deliberately. I thought, "Surely this second challenge will crush their spirits."

No spirit crushing occurred in my prison that day. No sir.

I seriously expected you to follow that up with a one minute challenge.

Bedroom antics stay in the bedroom.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:That 10 minute challenge is legendary, prisoners. I frankly regret that I couldn't be there to help you through that madness, but you didn't need me.

I chose the thirty minute challenge and followed it up with the ten minute challenge deliberately. I thought, "Surely this second challenge will crush their spirits."

No spirit crushing occurred in my prison that day. No sir.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:If we hadn't lynched the warden I would have refused to wear my winner's banner. I made that my personal win condition. :P

I knew when it was my time. My personal plan was to keep Soneji alive as long as humanly possible. I was happy to take the lynch over him.

Spacedaisy wrote:Lol, Epi's reaction, was "Fuck, Jay is a prisoner!"

This is perhaps a censored version of what I actually said.

My credo became "I'd rather best him than arrest him."

Plus, as I mentioned, we didn't need him out anyway.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I very much want to change my "Racketeer" rank/title thing to "Prisoner 509378".

I think that's fitting.

Sloonei wrote:How long did it take you cops to figure out I was the Don? I assumed you had me on Night 2 or 3, whenever those failed arrests happened. I even asked Daisy if I'd be allowed to roleclaim because I didn't want the cops to have information that my family didn't. I was not allowed to.

We tried to arrest you Night 2 or 3 and it didn't take, so we had our suspicions. However, there were other failed arrests that we couldn't work out, so we took a chance on you a second time much later. I had completely forgotten about the traitor mechanic until it was brought up near the end.

Ricochet wrote:Hey Epi. Why did you never get rid (kill/arrest) of P50, despite taunting him in the open about not getting swiftly removed for his hunts?

We didn't need him dead to win. I even said as much in the thread in a roundabout way that got the prisoner thinking I was genuine.

As the Warden, I knew he was an original prisoner and therefore not one of the family members. No reason to waste an arrest on him.

I told you all "CFD" is foolishness.

I was unable to vote due to technical shenanigans.

Sloonei wrote:That is probably an impossible question to answer. You don't need to answer it, I'll just continue to vote for you.

Knock yourself out chuckles. I don't give a shit.

But I'm not a cop, so who are my teammates?

Let's say I am a cop.

Who are my teammates?

Sloonei wrote:Epi stopped being online. I'd be interested to hear from Nero or TH on your theory, even though no one is allowed to role claim here.

Sloonei wrote:Hey Epi, are you the Don?

What's your motive in asking?

Well, your opinion of me isn't going to improve if I told you that my purpose for the spreadsheet wasn't so much to catch cops.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:No.

Then if you're town and your team loses, it's your fault.

I am and we will and it's not.

No.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:What do you want to know?

What did you have S~V~S as, what confirms your incorrectness, what do you think she actually was?

I tried telling you what I thought S~V~S was, and you said I was spouting nonsense.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:I won't oppose an Epi lynch at this point. I really struggle to believe a town Epi would be content to let a few punks with a quarter of his post count manipulate the game toward his mislynch without putting up a fight.

I tried to manipulate the game toward a lynch I preferred, and you said I was spouting nonsense.

I don't care if I get lynched at this point.

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:My spreadsheet and the fact that I am almost sure I made an erroneous assumption that I didn't catch.

Details please.

I had S~V~S as one thing and now I'm sure I was incorrect.

More details please.

What do you want to know?

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:My spreadsheet and the fact that I am almost sure I made an erroneous assumption that I didn't catch.

Details please.

I had S~V~S as one thing and now I'm sure I was incorrect.

Sloonei wrote:What was your erroneous assumption? Can you describe the state of this spreadsheet of yours? I've heard nothing about it before now.

See above.

I rarely keep spreadsheets, and I didn't start this one until after Day 7 ended.

The state of the spreadsheet is "Well, fuck."

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:That's not true, you can scratch and claw your way back up my rainbow. I am confident, but I am not certain.

I have no intention of scratching or clawing my way up a rainbow.

Will you do anything at all?

I suppose, but I'm not particularly motivated.

What is causing this lack of motivation?

My spreadsheet and the fact that I am almost sure I made an erroneous assumption that I didn't catch. Things aren't looking too swell. If I get lynched, you won't lynch a cop, but I'm not kicking up any fuss.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:That's not true, you can scratch and claw your way back up my rainbow. I am confident, but I am not certain.

I have no intention of scratching or clawing my way up a rainbow.

Will you do anything at all?

I suppose, but I'm not particularly motivated.

Do you care about the civilians' chance to win this game?

Which civilians?

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:That's not true, you can scratch and claw your way back up my rainbow. I am confident, but I am not certain.

I have no intention of scratching or clawing my way up a rainbow.

Will you do anything at all?

I suppose, but I'm not particularly motivated.

Sloonei wrote:That's not true, you can scratch and claw your way back up my rainbow. I am confident, but I am not certain.

I have no intention of scratching or clawing my way up a rainbow.

Sloonei wrote: I am not used to Epi being so ready with reasons to explain a point of suspicion against him. When he's town, I've always seen him as a player who is very confident and thus doens't often need to defend himself the way he does here. Which makes me think perhaps he did feel the need to do so in this game, because the suspicion was legitimate.

Usually I don't, but I've been accused of not being aggressive enough (and therefore bad) several times in the past several months. Although I'd say I've been plenty aggressive here (see sig).

It tells me that people secretly like evil Epi...until I come after them.

Sloonei wrote: I am confident he's bad.

If you are confident, then there is little I can do but hope you change your mind.

Well well well.

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Epi remains my top priority. Does anyone object to that?

Yes.

Why?

I'm not a cop.

What about in this game right now?

I'm not a cop in this game right now.

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Epi remains my top priority. Does anyone object to that?

Yes.

Why?

I'm not a cop.

Sloonei wrote:Epi remains my top priority. Does anyone object to that?

Yes.

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Epi
Dom
Eloh
chaindeath

That is what I think the scum team looks like. We've probably already lost, but whatever.

And a list like that is why.

Punch some holes in mine.

I can't even fathom you being good at this point. Dom is not a Don and I don't think he's a Stool Pigeon (unsubstantiated), so I think he was saved by some scum mechanic. That leaves Elohcin, chaindeath, Nerolunar, and Soneji. Soneji and Nerolunar strike me as more believable townies than Eloh and chaindeath.

Why can't you fathom me being good? It's a question I rarely ask. I just accept it when people think I'm bad. But I'm curious at this point. I mean to challenge your other points, but I want to hear about this if you don't mind.

Sloonei wrote:Epi
Dom
Eloh
chaindeath

That is what I think the scum team looks like. We've probably already lost, but whatever.

And a list like that is why.

Punch some holes in mine.

Sloonei wrote:Why do you now believe Eloh is a copper?

That's the only thing that makes sense to me. I cannot reconcile while she'd come into a bad role and not enjoy herself, but here we are.

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Are you trying to tell us that you believe Dom and Turnip Head are the two dons?

No. People have been making an assumption all game that is rooted in error.

How many roles can survive a lynch?

5, that we know of. The two Dons, the two stool pigeons, the Pief of Cholice. But the Chief's lynch doesn't just not happen, it "passes down", presumably to another Cop. Plus we have two dead Stool Pigeons, though one of them (boomslang) could have been the undercover cop.

You're on the right track, but please rephrase.

No, just say the thing you're trying to get out of me.

The answer is four. You named them. There's two Dons, and there's two Stool Pigeons.

The stool pigeons can get out of a lynch just the same as an arrest (the two are effectively the same). But only once. I checked with the host.

Both stool pigeons got lynched, meaning neither knew of this aspect of their role, or they had been arrested already, or one of them is the seemer.

TH and Dom have both survived lynches. They don't have to be Dons to do that, and you seemed to be arguing that they did. I don't agree.



chaindeath
Nerolunar
Soneji
Elohcin

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Are you trying to tell us that you believe Dom and Turnip Head are the two dons?

No. People have been making an assumption all game that is rooted in error.

How many roles can survive a lynch?

5, that we know of. The two Dons, the two stool pigeons, the Pief of Cholice. But the Chief's lynch doesn't just not happen, it "passes down", presumably to another Cop. Plus we have two dead Stool Pigeons, though one of them (boomslang) could have been the undercover cop.

You're on the right track, but please rephrase.

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Are you trying to tell us that you believe Dom and Turnip Head are the two dons?

No. People have been making an assumption all game that is rooted in error.

How many roles can survive a lynch?