The Syndicate

Oh wow [mention]Long Con[/mention] how cool! And [mention]Sloonei[/mention] even though I was dead I still recognized your Iris analysis as a masterpiece!

Congrats town you guys did a good job!

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:49 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:08 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 7:48 pm Much of where this site came from was birthed in Lostpedia Forums many years ago. One man brought this Mafia game to the forum, and a good group latched on and began developing games off the original formula, which didn't reveal the roles of nightkilled folk. This was just the normal way Mafia was played. We developed our Mafia methods over the years, across several forums, mostly unaware of the existence of a larger Mafia community on the Internet until a few years ago.

We developed some general rules, like no info-dumping or role-claiming, because such things were perceived to be ruining the game. A baddie team could spend the whole game masterfully crafting a sweet win, only to be tanked by Blurting Bob and his info role. It was regarded as cheap. Most games over the years have been open setup role madness, as well.

Now, we sometimes can claim, sometimes not. Some open, some closed. Some simple, some madness. Some janitored nightkills, some not. Some games are such offshoots that they barely resemble Mafia anymore.

It's not you can't make scum powerful enough to counter those cops. A couple invest immune baddies, framers, baddies that if investigated have it be redirected to specifically a townie. It doesn't ruin the game if you're creative.

It's not like*

You are right Dragomir just keep in mind LC is talking about how we operated 10+ years ago. Things have changed a lot since then.

I will stay current in here during this phase and comment if I see fit but I have two other games I've totally neglected that I will be working on today.

Awesome!!! I've been gone but it looks like congrats are in order for Mac and I have to thank Sloonei for pointing Cooler out.

I have to go. I'm going to vote Cooler as I indicated before.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 5:17 pm That’s pretty Whack Juliets

I did not see that though but I’m trusting you

It was really just a "consider this" kind of post but it got people talking about who they see as mafia and town below the 50 line. Obviously since you and nutella are still in the lead it didn't pull many votes away from you guys.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 5:13 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 5:08 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 4:59 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 4:58 pm I am just not digging either the Lux or the nutella train. I could see voting Cooler because he's been here but hasn't contributed toward any of the main issues that I have seen (correct me if I'm wrong) as opposed to Spacedaisy who just flat hasn't been here. But I don't see Cooler overtaking nutella and Lux so I don't know what good it would do. I have to vote in the next 30 minutes so I'm running out of time.

Why not nutella? Pretty sure i skimmed and saw something about myself but i could also be thinking of Mata’s post

The town nutella I have played with is wishy-washy about people early in the game and especially close to EOD. That's the nutella I'm seeing in this game. Jack's case on her is not bad but it rests primarily on the fact that her reads are fake. I would need more time to determine that than just 1 day.

I’m missing like 5 pages between what i felt last night and what has happened to now so it’s possible she retracted her jack vibes?

I did see a post talking about how she’s so/so on me/ sloonei due to post count but I’m also like

95% sure I am not a top poster this game

Lux, someone listed all the posters in the game and where they are. You are above 50 posts and so people were saying we should consider the people below 50 posts. That's why you're being considered a top poster.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 4:59 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 4:58 pm I am just not digging either the Lux or the nutella train. I could see voting Cooler because he's been here but hasn't contributed toward any of the main issues that I have seen (correct me if I'm wrong) as opposed to Spacedaisy who just flat hasn't been here. But I don't see Cooler overtaking nutella and Lux so I don't know what good it would do. I have to vote in the next 30 minutes so I'm running out of time.

Why not nutella? Pretty sure i skimmed and saw something about myself but i could also be thinking of Mata’s post

The town nutella I have played with is wishy-washy about people early in the game and especially close to EOD. That's the nutella I'm seeing in this game. Jack's case on her is not bad but it rests primarily on the fact that her reads are fake. I would need more time to determine that than just 1 day.

I am just not digging either the Lux or the nutella train. I could see voting Cooler because he's been here but hasn't contributed toward any of the main issues that I have seen (correct me if I'm wrong) as opposed to Spacedaisy who just flat hasn't been here. But I don't see Cooler overtaking nutella and Lux so I don't know what good it would do. I have to vote in the next 30 minutes so I'm running out of time.

sabie12 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 3:23 pm Out of the people currently with votes I think my suspicions are more towards lux.
Nutella is iffy and difficult to read because she is often pretty wishy washy as people said but I think right now I feel worse about lux.
I dont think cooler has really said much of anything and ultra idk I just figured they're new and trying to figure out how we do things.
I will take a look at some of the other people mentioned as well and reread lux iso.

Also I think I saw juliets you have been having a hard time I do hope you're okay!
I've had some stuff come up irl as well that has held me back from participating as much as I'd like to. My uncle unfortunately passed last week so I've had some family stuff going on.

sabie I'm doing much better, thank you. I just had too much going on at once. I'm sorry to hear about your uncle and don't worry about your participation right now just worry about your self.

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 3:11 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 3:07 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 3:03 pm To be fair I think there's little necessity to cast doubt over me when there are so many viable pushes today. But between the 180 and the testing the waters by asking around, it looks like a pretty bad push.

I do not suspect you. There is no push happening. Please just tell me your reads.

I would like to know what your original vote was about then, because it seems like what you were trying to project by asking everyone to give their read on me was that you already had some suspicions and opinions. Or, you just had a gut read.

I'm not sure how I wasn't supposed to get the impression that you were suspecting me, so explain what that was about.

As for my reads - suspect speedchuck. Soft agree that cooler looks scummy. Voted Juliet earlier but that wasn't going anywhere and I think I'll have to ISO her again to sort her out. I'd like to question Mac more.

Ultra, what are you seeing in speedchuck that causes you to suspect him? If you have given an explanation today I just missed it so just tell me to go to your ISO.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 2:26 pm New exercise time. Everyone pick a player with under 50 posts on this list who is town. Pick another player under 50 who is mafia.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 1:50 pm Username - Posts
Sloonei - 350
Luxurious - 230
Dragomir - 135
nutella - 135
Epignosis - 117
Creature - 104
Jackofhearts2005 - 100
Ultra - 99
MacDougall - 70
MafiaMenace - 45
speedchuck - 45
juliets - 41
DrWilgy - 29
Long Con - 22
Matahari - 22
Dragon D. Luffy - 21
sprityo - 9
Cooler - 7
sabie12 - 6
Spacedaisy - 3

I missed this. I already said sabie is the person I consider the most town so I'll pick Mafia Menace to be town in this exercise. I'll go with Cooler for mafia.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 2:21 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 2:17 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 2:08 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 2:06 pm In answer to Sloonei, I don't get Cooler's focus on the Ultra post so Cooler can you explain why you picked that post out of everything else we've talked about to focus on?

I'm liking what I see from Jack now. These recent posts very much remind me of civ Jack. The point about Sloonei self-resolving is a good one Imo.

What do you think of Nutella?

I'm seeing wishy-washy nutella which in my experience is town nutella. I am not clear why she is carrying so many votes other than her view of sloonei which is...wishy-washy. I probably missed some other reasons for votes in the three pages I had to skip so I'm going to try and skim the iso's of the people voting for her.

Cause her reads are fake!

Jack I just read through your ISO and I'm glad I did. You have a consistent and persistent view of nutella as scum and most of that is just as you say above, you think her reads are fake. Help me out though, I didn't get a good feeling as to why you think they are fake. Is there some thread that runs through her reads that you are seeing? Why would someone create all fake reads when it would be easier to just give reads normally using whatever methods she normally uses to scumhunt? Have you seen her do this before (create false reads in a multi-mafia game)? I don't know if I'm articulating my questions in a way that make's sense but could you give a stab at answering me anyway?

lots of linki which I will now read

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 2:08 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 2:06 pm In answer to Sloonei, I don't get Cooler's focus on the Ultra post so Cooler can you explain why you picked that post out of everything else we've talked about to focus on?

I'm liking what I see from Jack now. These recent posts very much remind me of civ Jack. The point about Sloonei self-resolving is a good one Imo.

What do you think of Nutella?

I'm seeing wishy-washy nutella which in my experience is town nutella. I am not clear why she is carrying so many votes other than her view of sloonei which is...wishy-washy. I probably missed some other reasons for votes in the three pages I had to skip so I'm going to try and skim the iso's of the people voting for her.

In answer to [mention]Sloonei[/mention], I don't get [mention]Cooler[/mention]'s focus on the Ultra post so Cooler can you explain why you picked that post out of everything else we've talked about to focus on?

I'm liking what I see from Jack now. These recent posts very much remind me of civ Jack. The point about Sloonei self-resolving is a good one Imo.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 1:50 pm Username - Posts
Sloonei - 350
Luxurious - 230
Dragomir - 135
nutella - 135
Epignosis - 117
Creature - 104
Jackofhearts2005 - 100
Ultra - 99
MacDougall - 70
MafiaMenace - 45
speedchuck - 45
juliets - 41
DrWilgy - 29
Long Con - 22
Matahari - 22
Dragon D. Luffy - 21
DFaraday - 10
sprityo - 9
Cooler - 7
sabie12 - 6
Spacedaisy - 3
dunya - 2
JaggedJimmyJay - 1

Now that I've noticed it (thanks Dragomir), I don't particularly like that all the suspicion in the thread/poll seems to be directed at the top posters. Legend has it that it's difficult to post hundreds of times as scum, and doesn't happen all that often.

Why is Lux under heavy suspicion?

speed one reason for the Lux suspicions (though not the only reason) was that whole thing about whether she scum slipped when she mentioned one bad team instead of two. The thinking was she did that because she's on one of the teams, therefore from her perspective there is just one (other) bad team. Someone who believes this to be the case (I don't think it was a scum slip) might be able to explain it better than me.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 1:34 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 1:32 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 1:16 pm I've mindmelded with nutella a lot, but I mesh with this current accusation of her as well. "It probably won't work" or "I might be wrong and it's a gamble that would hurt town" is a really off reason not to lynch someone.

Since when did nutella need to consider other opinions?

I'm trying to decide if this comes from a scum perspective in a multi-team game. Is this idea of 'eh, it's a gamble, not worth' influenced by the speaker having possible access to a nightkill?

Why is this a big deal? I'm absolutely willing to pursue my suspicion of sloonei,but I also retain some wariness that I might be wrong. What's wrong with that?

Since when do you ever do that?
<snip>

speed, doesn't nutella always do this? It seems like she goes back and forth on people a lot, especially in the beginning of games and right up to EOD. Am I remembering this wrong?

Oh my gosh, when I went to bed last night I was caught up. I have not read everything since then (I had to skip over a few pages) but here are some thoughts:

I don't see myself voting for Lux. Her posts were free-flowing react as you read posts not posts that were well thought out. I also don't believe she scum-slipped when she made the comment about one team. Is she rogue? Mac brings this up and it isn't something I've given any thought to but [mention]MacDougall[/mention] I'd like to know why you have this opinion if you don't mind.

I agree with nutella's observation about Jack, he's not doing any of those Jack-things he normally does as civ. One caveat though, I've not read the last few pages so if he came in and posted I haven't seen it.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] why are you voting Ultra? I probably missed the reason but I'm afraid when I get home from work I won't be able to go back to the pages I have missed so if you can just quote your post explaining it I would appreciate it.

My MafiaMenace read of "not inclined to Lynch" was reinforced.

I still want to hear from [mention]Spacedaisy[/mention]. I see what you're saying Mac and maybe you're right but I still have the newbie jeebies.

Sorry Im so short this morning, I have to get ready to go to work now. I'll try to be home by 2:00 so I've got time before I go out tonight to spend here.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 9:53 pm Oh fuck i broke it god damn it

No Lux, it was already broken. Thats why I responded in red, I couldn't get the thing to format correctly.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 3:56 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 11:49 am Town leaning:
Ultra
Sloonei
Sable
Mac

I don't remember sabie doing anything. Why is he/she a townread?

sabie looks like the civ sabie I have seen in multiple other games. She seems genuine and authentic, just as I have seen her before. She also went a little further in the beginning of this game giving Sloonei reads even though she had previously agreed with Mata that things don't usually come together for her until we are a couple of days into the game. Her style is earnest, and she doesn't pop into the thread as much as some of the rest of us. My read of her is highly dependent on meta which I know doesn't help you much. She may not be at the sophistication level you see at your other sites but if I had to pick the person I'm the most sure about right now being civ I would pick her.

I have to take a break for awhile but will be back later.

Thanks Sloonei, that's what I got when I read it through again.

[mention]speedchuck[/mention] I know the weekends, especially Sunday, are busy for you but I would really appreciate getting some thoughts and reads from you today if at all possible. Anything you can give would be appreciated.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 1:38 pm As I pointed out earlier, there is no TMI in a multi-mafia game so I really don't get why LC said that.

You did point that out, it slipped my mind completely. So the TMI makes no sense.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention], cancel my question unless you disagree with what we are saying here.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] what do you make of LC's assertion that Drago's defense to you of nutella is TMI? I read through the defense again but I'm not seeing the TMI aspect, it just sounds like his thoughts to me. The slipgate thing that LC says bolsters the argument is that you said something about a phony tone that slips into nutella's posts and Drago responded as if you had said she scum slipped. LC's point is Drago's response was an attempt to discredit what you said about a "scum slip" (which you never said). I hope that made sense.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:38 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 11:13 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:29 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:25 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:16 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:40 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:33 pm
What part do you not buy? I don’t need you to agree with my case, but it seems like you’re disagreeing with it by virtue of flat out misunderstanding, and I compulsively need to bridge that gap.

Sometimes mafia make mistakes. Sometimes they are not authentic. I try to catch them being not authentic. That is what I accused nutella of.

Don't buy her subconsciously slipping like that. Sounds like a stretch.

This is suspicious stuff from Dragomir. First of all, just because Sloon said that a phony tone could "slip into her posts", that's a far cry from her actually slipping in some way. It's a tone read, not a slip. Is this a cultural misunderstanding of the ways to use the word "slip"? Comes off as hamfisted deliberate misunderstanding, and, coupled with a possible TMI defense of nutella, it's suspicious.

I thought he was saying that she actually slipped there, wasn't thinking tone read but thanks for the clear up.

TMI? Where?

Enh, your recent Civ-read of her to Sloon, which is pretty unsupported... that opinion was bolstered by your part in Slipgate, but if you truly misunderstood Sloonei's post then I can back-burner it for now.

Day Zero, surface-level... that is legit enough to me. We all need our Day Zero warmup suspicions though, so I'm your #1 fan right now.

LC, I'm trying to understand the scum read on Drago. In the post above he asks you what the TMI on nutella means. I think your response is the "Day Zero, surface level...that is legit enough to me" sentence. Can you be more specific? I don't understand what you means by "surface level" - are you referring to a post he made?

Actually, the answer to Drac was "your recent Civ-read of her to Sloon, which is pretty unsupported... that opinion was bolstered by your part in Slipgate".

"Day Zero, surface level...that is legit enough to me" - that's more talking about my suspicion of Draco - it's legit enough for me to want to keep an eye on him and not put him in my hypothetical green column.

OH! Ok I totally misunderstood what you were saying. I'll go back and revisit what he said with your comment in mind, thanks.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention], so here are some more specific thoughts on mata:

Matahari wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:56 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:44 pm

Matahari wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:43 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:29 pm

Matahari wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:27 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 3:09 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:38 pm Question regarding the no claims rule - does that mean if you're the cop/tracker/whatever you can't state your results?

Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:49 pm Hot take

Felicity player should use her one shot on Rip Hunter to prevent Cult Shenanigans

MM, what was the point of this post? Were you answering someone, because I couldn’t find anything that indicated that.

Crap ton of linki

Okay, I can see the Matahari scumread earlier.

What scumread?

Epignosis earlier came with "I suspect Matahari" when nobody else even seemed to notice you posting at all.

As I hadn’t even posted in the game, I assumed Epi was being goofy. How can you suspect someone who hasn’t even checked in yet?
@nutella I asked about the point of MM’s post because he quoted two posts of Ultras in the order that Ultra originally posted them. After noting that the game was a no claim game, Ultra started working on a way to claim without openly claiming. I wondered whether MM was trying to bring attention to that. I looked back through other posts, but I couldn’t find one that asked MM a question about Ultra, so I asked why he posted that.

First, her reason for seeing Epi's post as "goofy" was Imo exactly what Epi was doing. I wouldn't call it "goofy" as much as I would say it was him pulling reactions but her point still stands - he was not serious about seeing her as bad before she had even posted.

Second, I didn't understand those two posts MafiaMenace made either so her question to him was legit imo. It wasn't a question on the main topics of the day but that didn't concern me at all. It's a question that I easily could have asked a new player that I was trying to understand.

Matahari wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 5:08 pm
I don’t have any solid impressions on players so far. I don’t know a few of the players at all, and I know most players who are old school here. My typical approach is to read along, try to form opinions about how people interact with each other, ask questions if I don’t understand what people are trying to say, and I rarely post a ton. It usually take two to three days in old school games before I get solid feels on a player.

Sloonei this was in response to some questions you asked her. This is exactly how I remember Mata as a civ player and as far as I remember it is exactly how she played in Steeley Dan up to the point where she got info. (She was civ in that game)

Matahari wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:06 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 11:31 pm

Matahari wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 11:21 pm It’s hard for me to imagine making lists so early. I tried to make one today, but after rereading the game, and some ISOs, I don’t feel like I have much of an opinion on anyone. I can’t clear anyone, but there are a few that I don’t feel great about.

Dragomir, seems like he changes his mind too easily and it might not be a bad thing (like being blendy and trying to stay on people’s good side) but it still caught my attention.

Sloonei, I would like to trust him but all the pushing for info from people, the gth on day 0, seems tailor made for helping mafia. Talk is great, it helps to be able to look back at it later in the game, and that helps town. But I’ve never seen anyone keep at it like Sloonei.

Nutella, is not playing the same as the last two games I played with her. She was town in those games, and she seems a lot less pulled together so far.

I can’t say that any of them would get a vote from me. Not yet. Basically, I’m still observing people.

Tons of linki

Talk to me some more about nutella. What specifically seems different? Can you point to any posts in particular that stand out to you?

In the last two games, Nutella had confidence. The kind that seems like normal Nutella, who will say anything, whether you like it or not. Also, the kind of confidence that only a civ has. For reference, Gossip Girl and Steely Dan mafia

I’m not seeing it here. She’s not bold, rude, in your face, or any of the normal Nutella. I can’t fault her for not picking people’s posts apart and challenging them, because really, the posting hasn’t been especially suspicious, but I think she would be challenging more if she were civ. She seems like she’s holding back. That’s the best way I can explain it. That is going by old skool ‘feels’ and probably not helpful to newer mafia players.
I wouldn’t swear I’m right, but it’s enough that she’s on my watchlist.

She does give a read here about nutella that is detailed and comes across authentic to me. I can't say that I agree with it but I don't see bad in people just because they have an opinion that differs from my own. Again, this post is representative of the style I remember as civ mata.

In my read I'm saying that I wouldn't vote for her today, not that I wouldn't vote for her period. I see enough that reminds me of her civ self and nothing I would call bad. I will however look back at your analysis of her to make sure I am not blinded by what I know of her.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 11:51 am Why are you not inclined to lynch matahari, @juliets

I haven't seen anything she's done that looked bad, and what I have seen looks fine to me. She marches to the beat of her own drummer with regard to things she looks into. There was one question she asked here that I think people took exception to because it didn't seem important (hope I'm remembering that right) but that's just how she is in my mind. I'll see if I can pull some quotes to illustrate.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 11:31 am Players I’d confidently argue are not mafia:
Ultra
Macdougall
Sabie
Dragomir
juliets

Players I’m not inclined to lynch, but not totally sold on either:
nutella
MafiaMenace
Epignosis

Players I either suspect or don’t feel strongly about:
Everyone else

I have some similar thoughts:

Town leaning:
Ultra
Sloonei
Sable
Mac

Not inclined to Lynch:
DDL - liked him early on, waiting to see more
MafiaMenace - would like to see a little more from him
Epi
nutella
Matahari

Don't feel strongly about or suspect:
All others.

Special Notes:
[mention]Spacedaisy[/mention] is making me a little nervous. I know she's got her own game but there's not a lot going on there yet.
[mention]Cooler[/mention] is new to me but he or she needs to post more. Maybe they were just waiting for Day 1.
[mention]sprityo[/mention] I want to see some meat from him, but I have lynched him too many times for not doing anything and have been wrong.

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 10:32 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 10:31 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 10:29 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 10:26 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 10:26 pm [VOTE: Juliets] aubergine

Why?

Look at her ISO, she's mostly asking pretty surface level questions and it looks like scum flavored productivity. She's also not digging into anything too interesting and hasn't really gotten anywhere as far as I can tell.

u forgot to vote

voting is confusing around here

Ok Ultra, I did your ISO and found your reason for voting me so never mind my first question. I think I've already explained my activity level. Your comment that I'm not digging into things too interesting I guess is in the eye of the beholder. I'm giving more attention to the game today so maybe you will see the difference.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:29 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:25 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:16 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:40 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:33 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:30 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 12:08 pm

Because she’s mafia? There is no motivation here. The accusation here is that her tone could have been false. That’s not something she would consciously plot out, it’s just something that would slip into her posts by accident.

Don't really buy it but ok.

What part do you not buy? I don’t need you to agree with my case, but it seems like you’re disagreeing with it by virtue of flat out misunderstanding, and I compulsively need to bridge that gap.

Sometimes mafia make mistakes. Sometimes they are not authentic. I try to catch them being not authentic. That is what I accused nutella of.

Don't buy her subconsciously slipping like that. Sounds like a stretch.

This is suspicious stuff from Dragomir. First of all, just because Sloon said that a phony tone could "slip into her posts", that's a far cry from her actually slipping in some way. It's a tone read, not a slip. Is this a cultural misunderstanding of the ways to use the word "slip"? Comes off as hamfisted deliberate misunderstanding, and, coupled with a possible TMI defense of nutella, it's suspicious.

I thought he was saying that she actually slipped there, wasn't thinking tone read but thanks for the clear up.

TMI? Where?

Enh, your recent Civ-read of her to Sloon, which is pretty unsupported... that opinion was bolstered by your part in Slipgate, but if you truly misunderstood Sloonei's post then I can back-burner it for now.

Day Zero, surface-level... that is legit enough to me. We all need our Day Zero warmup suspicions though, so I'm your #1 fan right now.

LC, I'm trying to understand the scum read on Drago. In the post above he asks you what the TMI on nutella means. I think your response is the "Day Zero, surface level...that is legit enough to me" sentence. Can you be more specific? I don't understand what you means by "surface level" - are you referring to a post he made?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 1:05 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:56 am

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:52 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:28 am

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:20 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:14 am

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:10 am
Yes you were trying to establish yourself as a deepwolf but I just don't believe someone can become one D0. Becoming one requires multiple DPs of powerwolfing, this DP was just one of those for you. Someone powerwolfing in order to become a deepwolf D0 is different from someone being a deepwolf outright in D0 and the latter is what I don't believe.

Or, you know, Sloonei is a civilian.

Or, you know, he's not.

You’re making the same mistakes as last game.

Really? Am I making an absurd and relentless tunnel against you? No. Am I making a hard push for you, trying to convince everyone that you're scum? No. Am I being relaxed about my scum reads and not making a big deal out of them? Yes. Was I in the last game? No. Am I being super confident in my scum reads? No(unless you want to consider just thinking that you're scum as super confident).

So tell me again about how I'm making the same mistakes as the previous game.

Also, do you just like to discredit someone's thoughts on you by bringing up a past game? I mean sure, it'd make sense if the player is playing as bad as the did in the previous game and they're not changing but that's not me here. I'm not playing as close as to how I was last game in terms of aggressiveness with my reads. I'm just scum reading and I'm being pretty soft about it unlike last game where I was super strong in my reads.

You are leaping to conclusions about me without seeming to consider alternatives or looking at the full picture. You’re in the beginning stages of a tunnel.

I am discrediting you because you are suspecting me. I’ve responded to every point you’ve expressed against me and you’ve just come back with additional points or refused to budge. I’m telling you that you’re wrong after having addressed every other point. You are wrong about me. Please at least entertain me and pretend that I’m town.

Yeah, I did do that when I first suspected you but after my interactions with you, my scum read dissipated and became a null read. That was until I tackled your iso and I don't see any leaping to conclusions there.

I did that to our interactions prior to me tackling your iso but after those interactions I wasn't scum reading you anymore.

I've already tried pretending that you're town which was when we were talking about the Felicia peek and random questioning stuff. Thus, I ended up losing the scum read on you which turned into null.

You're acting like I've been carrying my suspicion from earlier to now.

Drago, I am not understanding what you are saying here. When I read the words it seems like you are no longer reading sloonei as scum sloonei. Am I correct in my read?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 3:07 am @nutella Here is where I first indicated my suspicion on Luxurious. I did some silent ISOs late in Day 0 and had more pings on her than anyone else. I wanted to wait until Day 1 to pivot onto her because A) I was trying not to flood the thread any more than I already had on Day 0, and B) I was hoping it might catch people off guard and create interesting reactions. But no one seemed to care. It took 3 hours before Dragomir finally said something about it.

I don't even know why it would be suspicious for me to jump on a new target like that. Your vote is silly.

Sloonei, lol I don't know whether you realized this or not but you posted your case at 1:34 am eastern daylight time. It's no wonder you had only one response. I won't see anything posted after about 10:00 until the next day.

Sloonei you asked for some feedback on your Lux suspicion. I'm not sure I know how to quote multiple times in one post. Edit: Now that I'm finished I see that I have no idea how to do this. I apologize but I'll put my comments in red so you can read them.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 1:34 am "Why Lux?"

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:38 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:32 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:29 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:53 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:49 pm Hot take

Felicity player should use her one shot on Rip Hunter to prevent Cult Shenanigans

at first glance cult looks pretty harmless early game, in my personal opinion it should be spent on someone like deathstroke, it brings down the average kpn from 2.5 (i assume) down to 1.5

i dont see any posts of ultra that would let me make a read as they are all pregame fluff which happens or strategic thinking which comes from both alignments

Hmmmm

what's on yer mind?

It feels a bit like a minimization of what Ultra’s doing

And I’m not sure if MM has played with Ultra before but it’s kinda shady to dismiss his posts as pregame fluff or NAI

I don't feel good about this post. I don't agree with the sentiment of the first line, nor do I feel like that behavior would been to be qualified as suspicious. I also do not see why Lux is suspecting MafiaMenace for not committing to a read on Ultra right away. Lux has not playing with MafiaMenace, to my knowledge. This whole post feels like a reach for suspicion.
Moving on.

The thing I didn't understand in this quote is why Lux felt MafiaMenaces post was shady. He has a difference of opinion, one that differs from everyone else that I see, yet he brought it forward regardless of what others were saying it. I don't agree with his opinion but I don't see that it makes him shady. I don't know that Lux's opinion makes her bad but I will consider your point.
This mindmeld is the only thing convincing me that you have potential to be town
[/quote]
Again, the point which is being "mindmelded" over does not feel particularly strong or meaningful, which makes me feel like it's insincere. And I also do not like it when players dangle suspicion like this. "I would suspect you, but..."
If you are going to say that, you should attach the reasons you have for considering the person a suspect. I don't see Lux doing that anywhere. I see a lot of softball questions for people, but I don't see a really compelling chain of thoughts anywhere in Lux's ISO. And I see this read on nutella that looks very fake.[/quote]

The comment "This mind meld is the only thing convincing me that you have the potential to be town" bothered me but I couldn't really put my finger on why. I am still struggling to articulate it so maybe it's just a way of expressing something that is different from what I am used to. I do think you have a good point here though that it would be less problematic if she has listed reasons she had for finding nutella suspect.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 6:51 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:45 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:43 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:40 pm If Day 1 started right now my vote would be on nutella.

Your suspicions are gravitating around people focusing too much on mechanics and I don’t see you as a driving force in the thread. You’re reacting rather than creating. It feels safe.

Sloonei treating day 0 like a super extension on day 1 is like good

But I think this is a bit early of a jump

I can see this coming from an anxious town or a trigger happy scum.

Since y’all apparently bus like there’s no tomorrow here, I’m leaning scum

Another thing I hate is this. Nowhere in this post does Lux attach any of my behavior to bussing. She observes that I am being very active. She then makes the leap from "Sloonei is active" to "People on the Syndicate like to bus", and somehow puts these two pieces together to create a suspicion against me. She would later elaborate that it was "an associative read" between nutella and I, but I do not see why that is the conclusion she is drawing. All Lux has said about me is that I'm extremely active and therefore suspicious. Bogus. [/quote]

The disconnect for me in Lux's statement is I couldn't make the leap from "I can see this coming from an anxious town or a trigger happy scum" to "Since y'all apparently bus like there's no tomorrow here, I'm leaning scum". I thought her comment "a trigger happy scum" implied Sloonie was out to get someone, anyone, because he was scum. But then the last sentence is linking him to nutella, i.e., he's bussing her. How does that square with him being a trigger happy scum? I don't think a trigger happy scum would go after a teammate. I would understand it if she had said "I can see this coming from an anxious town or a scum who is bussing". So bottom line I don't understand how she got to the end statement.

So Sloonei I can see your issues with her statements but I'm not clear these things make her bad. My concern is I'm just not understanding her because I'm not used to communicating with her. I'll read her ISO today and see if that helps me see her the way that you are seeing her. I will also be interested to see other's comments on your case.

So [mention]Ultra[/mention] I see you have voted for me. What is your reasoning? I'll do your ISO but as far as I remember you've said nothing about me. What did I miss?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:42 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:40 am Your opinion on juliets dear Sloonei, if you please.

I haven’t looked at her closely yet. Her response to your suspicion was unconvincing, and in that she kind of copped to the accusation. So I’m open to her as a suspect, but I’d like to see what she does the next time she’s here.

It was unconvincing? There have been a ton of posts in this game, some not relevant to the game that I don't even understand, and I barely have time to think. I had three doctor's appointments this week, a biopsy, a bad test result and a painful dental procedure. I'm not feeling well and have another appointment Tuesday which will probably be more bad news. I'm in two other games now so what time I have is spread thin. Today is my birthday and I will probably spend most of it trying to get a handle on this game. I feel pressured to find mafia soon in this game where I'm seeing a lot of behavior which I interpret as civ because I will not be here during the day tomorrow for the most part and am going out tomorrow night for my birthday so won't be here for EOD. So - I am overwhelmed. But I'm not sitting around saying "woe is me". I'm applying time to this game today regardless of what else is going on in my life and hopefully I won't feel overwhelmed any more.

sprityo wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:18 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 12:16 am I have a wonderful advantage in this setup that I don't much get to enjoy anymore:

Regardless of of Sloonei's alignment, somebody I'm not friends with is going to be scared.

I like that.

Why does this get the eye?

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 7:47 pm Is it day 1 yet? can i tell jack his waifu is shit

Once again, I don't know what this means. What is waifu?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 9:22 pm juliets is not peppering the thread with meaningful questions. She's asking easy questions and remaining disengaged mostly.

This is true, I'm not peppering with questions. I'm overwhelmed at the moment. Hopefully it will get better.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 11:41 am

juliets wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 10:25 am Regarding the whole GTH battle, I've never liked the exercise early in the game because I have so many people I haven't made a read on and forcing them into a a box of "good" or "bad" is artificial for me. I might as well flip a coin. Later in the game I'm not as adverse to it because I've usually been able to ISO some people and have a better idea of where I stand. I can't say I've noticed that the exercise helps us focus in the right direction but maybe that's just because I don't remember the details of a lot of games.

Regarding Sloonei, I need to read through his ISO. It seems like he's starting to tunnel nutella but maybe I'm overreacting and there are not as many posts about her as I perceive. In Always Sunny he tunneled me hard at the beginning and he was civ (so was I). I can't remember a bad Sloonei to compare him to so I'll go looking for that as well.

I'm not reading nutella as bad at this point. For example, I regarded her comment about sprityo as just her normal flippant self as opposed to a mafia behavior. Note that I am not giving her civ credit, that would be foolish given how good she is, I'm just saying I haven't read anything that makes me say "oh right she's scum". I'll give Sloonei's post a closer read and ISO her but that's my thought for the moment.

So for the time being I'm going into ISO's to gain clarity on people. I'll be in and out today.

I am definitely not tunneling nutella. I raised a fee points against her and was asked to explain them, so it looks like I’m going on about her for a long time, but it’s not because I’m pleading with people to agree with me or anything.

When I left last night I was actually leaning town on nutella. But that doesn’t mean my concerns have disappeared.

Yeah Sloonei I just finished reading through all your posts and though it was my perception going in that you were tunneling her, it is not my perception coming out. I can't say I agree with all your points about her though, but then again you did not seem to be saying she is without a doubt mafia.

One other thing I wanted to say after reading your ISO, someone (was it Dragomir) indicated that your questions to Ultra weren't civ behavior. I see a lot of us who play here ask a lot of questions and to my way of thinking it's the best way to try to get some understanding of another person's thinking particularly if they are new. So I disagree with that reason for reading you as not civ.

Ok I need to read some others.

linki

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] I apologize, I just found your explanation to nutella about the above post in your ISO so just ignore my previous post.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 1:38 am I said I was gonna hold off on my full nutella suspicion until Day 1 is officially underway, but I'm bored and impatient, so here goes.

Mind you, when I say that I have a suspicion this early in the game, I am in no way suggesting that I'm married to this read. This is just me floating some initial concerns I have about a player. I'm making this disclaimer here because there are a number of folks who've never played with me before in this game and I'm already feeling that my approach is causing some confusion and making people misread my intentions.

Onto the actual substance: When I consider nutella as a suspect, two trends stand out to me so far in this game. 1) low-hanging fruit, and 2) downplaying of suspicion/pressure. I've picked out a few examples from her ISO (sorry Lux):

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 12:01 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:57 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:55 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:52 pm
I have substantiated a gripe that I have with a Speedchuck post on Day 0. It exists to bolster the conversation in the thread.

Speedchuck gave an indecisive wave of the hand. I'd like him to tell us what it means, and I'd like other people to comment on it.

Why does your response exist?

I don't feel strongly about it either way. It's something I can easily imagine myself saying as well, as a general impulse to sort out what I'm thinking about people who have been active in the thread so far.

What is your read on the player called Sloonei so far?

The usual General town read while keeping the roll of foil within reach if needed.

The player called Sloonei is grilling nutella a little bit. Nothing serious, but the directness of the final question in this exchange suggests attentiveness on his part. nutella gives it a casual sidestep, leaning (it would seem) more toward the "General town read", but with enough resistance in the "roll of foil" comment to avoid rolling over completely. I would file this under "downplaying pressure".

Sloonei, I'm not following your beef with nutella's post here. My interpretation of her response is "I have a general town read but I could see myself tin- foiling about him at some point, as people sometimes do with their town reads". It sounds like a genuine answer to me. And where does the "downplaying pressure" come from? I don't understand what you mean by that category.

Regarding the whole GTH battle, I've never liked the exercise early in the game because I have so many people I haven't made a read on and forcing them into a a box of "good" or "bad" is artificial for me. I might as well flip a coin. Later in the game I'm not as adverse to it because I've usually been able to ISO some people and have a better idea of where I stand. I can't say I've noticed that the exercise helps us focus in the right direction but maybe that's just because I don't remember the details of a lot of games.

Regarding Sloonei, I need to read through his ISO. It seems like he's starting to tunnel nutella but maybe I'm overreacting and there are not as many posts about her as I perceive. In Always Sunny he tunneled me hard at the beginning and he was civ (so was I). I can't remember a bad Sloonei to compare him to so I'll go looking for that as well.

I'm not reading nutella as bad at this point. For example, I regarded her comment about sprityo as just her normal flippant self as opposed to a mafia behavior. Note that I am not giving her civ credit, that would be foolish given how good she is, I'm just saying I haven't read anything that makes me say "oh right she's scum". I'll give Sloonei's post a closer read and ISO her but that's my thought for the moment.

So for the time being I'm going into ISO's to gain clarity on people. I'll be in and out today.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 3:05 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:51 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:45 am I don't feign nonchalance my dude, that doesn't even sound possible. I'm just chill

Aight. Let's assume both of us are town for a while. I can do that. I want to do that. A game where nutella is town is infinitely preferable to one where she's not.

You've talked a lot about Matahari but I'm still not sure I'm on board with them (her?) as a primary suspect. Can you explain why I should give priority to that case?

A lot of it is my own gut reaction to the way that she is posting so I can't necessarily convey all of why I am giving it so much weight, but in general she has stayed out of most discussions/been avoidant and only showed her face when her name was brought up. To be fair she is participating a bit more now and she explained more about her approach to analyzing the thread and implied she would have some content/takes on people soonish so I will keep on the lookout for that and see if my feelings on her change.

nutella, wasn't she the same way in Steeley Dan? Quiet at the beginning, waiting to surface reads. Even when she gained info on Elo and dunya she was not full-out "these two are mafia". I'm not ready to give her a civ read but her behavior strikes me as normal for her for this point in the game.

Sorry guys I lost power and just now regained it. I will catch up with any thoughts I have about what's been going on.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 7:08 pm

Spoiler: show

juliets wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 7:02 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 6:58 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 6:40 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:26 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:15 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:13 pm

sorry, what is prs?

and hi LC!

power roles (anything but citizen)
since this is a role madness game this is probably the wrong word to use

Ok so you are focused on how the civs can deal with the non-civ power roles and how Felicity's pr fits in to that strategy? I know this seems picky but I'm just trying to understand your focus so I can better determine if your actions are civ or not.

Iinki again - don't even have time to get my thoughts straight before there's more to think about

How did you get here with this idea? Like where did he say that he’s focused on how civs can deal with non-civs?

Like i see point a, and c respectively, but what happened to b?

I was paraphrasing what I thought he was saying. I'm not sure what point you're saying is missing - he said it was strategic, and he was looking at non-civ power roles, and he was looking at felicity. He replied what what I said was basically what he was saying so I assume my paraphrase is correct.

Ih wait! I read your question wrong. The part about looking at the civs dealing with the non civ power roles is what you are asking about. That was my deduction about what he was saying. That's why I was checking my paraphrase with him at all instead of just assuming my deduction was correct.

Okay fair.

So it wasnt something he said directly? Just something you thought he was saying to which he agreed

Yes Lux, exactly.

juliets wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 6:58 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 6:40 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:26 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:15 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:13 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:11 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:10 pm

MM can you elaborate on the strategic standpoint you are working on? I'm not clear I know what you mean.

linki

looking at how to use prs
but im mostly focused on felicity

sorry, what is prs?

and hi LC!

power roles (anything but citizen)
since this is a role madness game this is probably the wrong word to use

Ok so you are focused on how the civs can deal with the non-civ power roles and how Felicity's pr fits in to that strategy? I know this seems picky but I'm just trying to understand your focus so I can better determine if your actions are civ or not.

Iinki again - don't even have time to get my thoughts straight before there's more to think about

How did you get here with this idea? Like where did he say that he’s focused on how civs can deal with non-civs?

Like i see point a, and c respectively, but what happened to b?

I was paraphrasing what I thought he was saying. I'm not sure what point you're saying is missing - he said it was strategic, and he was looking at non-civ power roles, and he was looking at felicity. He replied what what I said was basically what he was saying so I assume my paraphrase is correct.

Ih wait! I read your question wrong. The part about looking at the civs dealing with the non civ power roles is what you are asking about. That was my deduction about what he was saying. That's why I was checking my paraphrase with him at all instead of just assuming my deduction was correct.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 6:40 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:26 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:15 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:13 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:11 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:10 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:06 pm
oh i swear to god
most people currently are unreadable because their posts are nai, so im choosing to work on a strategic standpoint

a, i already said that the legends arent the issue in the earlygame
b, how is this a point?
c, my entire mechanics argument was focused on the fucking sk, so what the fuck are you talking about

MM can you elaborate on the strategic standpoint you are working on? I'm not clear I know what you mean.

linki

looking at how to use prs
but im mostly focused on felicity

sorry, what is prs?

and hi LC!

power roles (anything but citizen)
since this is a role madness game this is probably the wrong word to use

Ok so you are focused on how the civs can deal with the non-civ power roles and how Felicity's pr fits in to that strategy? I know this seems picky but I'm just trying to understand your focus so I can better determine if your actions are civ or not.

Iinki again - don't even have time to get my thoughts straight before there's more to think about

How did you get here with this idea? Like where did he say that he’s focused on how civs can deal with non-civs?

Like i see point a, and c respectively, but what happened to b?

I was paraphrasing what I thought he was saying. I'm not sure what point you're saying is missing - he said it was strategic, and he was looking at non-civ power roles, and he was looking at felicity. He replied what what I said was basically what he was saying so I assume my paraphrase is correct.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:33 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:33 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:29 pm

Matahari wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:27 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 3:09 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:38 pm Question regarding the no claims rule - does that mean if you're the cop/tracker/whatever you can't state your results?

Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:49 pm Hot take

Felicity player should use her one shot on Rip Hunter to prevent Cult Shenanigans

MM, what was the point of this post? Were you answering someone, because I couldn’t find anything that indicated that.

Crap ton of linki

Okay, I can see the Matahari scumread earlier.

How so?

I didn't like that post ftr.

ok, why? It just doesn't seem AI to me so I'm curious what you are seeing.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:29 pm

Matahari wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:27 pm

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 3:09 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:38 pm Question regarding the no claims rule - does that mean if you're the cop/tracker/whatever you can't state your results?

Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:49 pm Hot take

Felicity player should use her one shot on Rip Hunter to prevent Cult Shenanigans

MM, what was the point of this post? Were you answering someone, because I couldn’t find anything that indicated that.

Crap ton of linki

Okay, I can see the Matahari scumread earlier.

How so?