The Syndicate

Fun fact: Lorab only started posting in "sad" and "sadness" acronyms after Trice used the Donald Trump syntax.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:Crooked Epignosis thinks he can keep throwing whoppers after a civvie insanified him, sad!

I have no idea if that means anything, but it's just funky enough that it tickles my brain.

Linki w/MP: And my half-baked theory is that Trice triggered Lorab's curse with that post.
Linki w/MP2: Uh, starting a lynch this late? Do you really not believe in either of the big trains going right now, or are you conveniently copping out of culpability?
Linki w/Scotty: DAMMIT I TYPE SLOW

Checking in now to add evidence to the Vomps-as-Moya train. I agree with JJJ that trice has not looked good today at all. His exchanges with Epi in particular have struck me as misleading; see below.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

Epignosis wrote:The Tricycle Could Interact With Me in One of Several Ways- He Could Ask Me to Clarify Something, Expound Upon Something, Offer Alternative Explanations for My Observations, or Disagree With Me for His Own Reasons...Instead His Activity is to Outright Discredit Me, and if He's a Civilian, There is No Good Reason for Him to Do That Unless He's Convinced I'm Bad

But I have several times, you ignore most of them because it would require acting like a good player

You Did Not Engage Me About INH Day 1 (You Voted Me to Punish Me), Day 2 You Did Give an Alternative About AP, but it Hinged on Two Very Specific "If" Statements, Your Theory About Boomslang Was Equally Far-Fetched and Could Literally Apply to Anybody Making Any Vote

I also didn't vote for INH so I don't know what your point is, and no, my theory on boomslang could not have applied to literally anybody making any vote because boomslang was the only person that day voting for a person he supposedly believed was good

Epignosis wrote:

timmer wrote:Name your three most likely baddies, off the top of your head.

I Don't Have Three Because That's Not the Way I'm Approaching This

more like "that would require naming myself and my 2 baddie teammates"

Note that first quote. In the first point, Epi's not saying trice voted for INH; he's saying he voted for Epi. Trice doesn't address the second point. The third point is misleading, because I had no way to know for sure that timmer wouldn't get lynched. I just suspected it strongly.

And the second quote is just petty.
*votes Trice*

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

Epignosis wrote: Way to Characterize My Contributions

in a 50 page game you can only point to 3 counterexamples, my characterization stands completely

How many successful examples would convince you? Five? Ten? This doesn't change the fact that he was right. Also, trying to assess post value by density in this game is ridiculous given the ballooning that occurred in the first couple of days.
Also, literally laughed at loud at the (0:23) tag on Epi's last post.

Well, I'm fine with either an MM lynch or an AP lynch. And MM did say, and I quote, "I want to be lynched." In the words of Watto the Toydarian, "We'll let fate decide."

*votes MM*

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

nijuukyugou wrote:Good or bad, dude, I just want to applaud this science That's dedication.

Agreed.

It's rewarding when people appreciate my work.

...yeah, this is actually pretty convincing, at least at suggesting an AP lynch is a better chance than usual mafia proportions would indicate. And again, the one piece of content we have leans slightly bad, imo.

Linki: You're awful cheeky for someone near the chopping block, MM :P

birdwithteeth11 wrote: I came up with similar ideas as well. But I voted for him (AP) already for 2 reasons:

1) I'm playing the Law of Averages here. Which would state there is a 66% chance AP is bad.

2) I want to see if it motivates him to come in here and give us some more substance.

Most of my reasoning is on #2 right now though. Because I do not have a super-definitive read on him yet. But re-reading Lorab actually made me feel better about placing a vote that way.

This only works assuming all three possibilities have equal probabilities. Which, as JJJ stated, is unlikely, given that #2 is historically uncommon among baddies.

I don't think timmer's Wilgy-shaped hole case is quite as strong as he thinks it is. Dom was consistently fatigued/indecisive and did offer some explanation, although feeling-based, about being moved by JJJ's attempt to communicate.

The only relevant/analyzable post of AP is this:

A Person wrote: I don't have the time or energy to read all the nonsense people spew, a few well placed kills would improve the quality of the game.

Which I think, without further explanation/indication of targets, looks rather bad. Still not convinced, though.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:List of players who haven't posted yet today.

• Boomslang
  MovingPictures07 and his eerily related last post.
  nijuukyugou
  sig

Unvote timmer

Vote MovingPictures07 for now. Something feels off.

Just stupid busy. Will post tomorrow late morning/afternoon.

Metalmarsh89 wrote: You acknowledge that your vote was a logical misstep. Why do you suspect me for voting you as a result?

Because, as JJJ pointed out, me being illogical doesn't necessarily mean I'm bad. And the suspicion arises more from you switching your previously committed timmer vote to me. If you believed in timmer as a target, why not take my vote support, regardless of whether I had a good reason for voting?

Also, let's dance *votes Hotel2Tango*

RIP Wilgy, and what a crazy Day 2.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I am more inclined to agree with Epignosis on the matter of Boomslang. I think there's a logical problem with his timmer vote that he should talk about, but there's the rub. When I look at the Boomslang controversy, my judgment veers toward that matter of logic -- is it truly damning for a player to make a logical misstep, and which alignment is more proned to making those? I don't know that there's a reliable correlation between being bad and being illogical. If anything there may be a negative correlation.

Boomslang, at your earliest convenience please discuss your current reads on timmer and MM, and describe where your head was at when you made your last post on Day 2.

Honestly, my vote was a logical misstep. "Where my head was at" was a place of sheer panic/preoccupation; I'd just come off a five-hour internship block, was about to head on an hour drive to an hour-plus-long job interview (that I'd just landed the day before and stayed up late preparing for), and at the time was changing into a suit. I didn't have the time or mental capacity to think clearly about my post or vote. I voted timmer out of some fuzzy train of thought relating him, MM, and me and wanting to see what happened after that vote. I seriously doubted that timmer would actually get lynched in the phase. You can believe me or not for this explanation; unlike Hillary Clinton, I can post time-stamped emails if you want them.

That being said, I think we can still gain some info from the debacle. MM immediately abandoning his timmer vote to vote me looks bad. If he truly believed in the timmer case, why would he abandon it instead of trying to recruit more people to the vote? Timmer seemed suitably confused/angry about a vote that was, as I've said, mostly illogical; he then tried to rationalize the vote after the emotional energy subsided. That reads very authentic to me. So I'll stop beating that horse for now.

Arrrgh, I thought I could catch up tonight. Making a long story short, I have a surprise job interview in middle-of-nowhere North Carolina that will eat up the rest of my day/early evening. Gonna vote Timmer because I disagree with the main wagons and think it would at least yield info on MM. I know this is a drive-by, but I don't have time for more.

Golden wrote:

Boomslang wrote:against players who were attracting some heat?

Full of broken thoughts!

IActual quote from you last night: "Is the theme of this game 'have a self-righteous rant at golden?'"
Why would you post that if you didn't feel like you were taking heat?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Boomslang wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: Also, I find your two statements contradictory. How can he be pretty much impossible to read and yet you lean town on him?

Did you read my post? I said I leaned town on Epi because I didn't think his gimmick was doing any damage to the town effort. Beyond obfuscating his own alignment, of course.

Sloonei wrote:Why do you like Scotty avoiding the INH vote?

He had a correct read on INH and promoted that read in the thread. Had we followed that advice, it would've been profitable to the town effort. That's more town evidence than we have for most people at this point.

Also, voted the mini-market because food.

I did read it; I just don't understand how you interpret Epi's behavior as obfuscating.

I find your highlighted conclusion dubious. Accuracy does not make alignment.

Epi's posts have gotten much less obtuse as the game has gone on, I'll give you that much. So I'm stepping back from the idea of obfuscation for now. And I agree that accuracy does not make alignment. But he actively pursued other targets (Epi, BWT, JJJ) in thread instead of just saying he disagreed with the inh lynch. He could've done more late in the day, but he did offer some potential alternatives if others would've taken them.

Linki w/Golden: I don't necessarily think both are fake. But I think odds are high one is, given what we know about the roles.
Linki w/MP: Spinning my wheels here, but I'd say a mafia J could be pretending to help temper his high post count from yesterday. He came out swinging, establishing himself as a strong inquisitive force (see Scotty calling him the Spanish Inquisition, for crying out loud), and playing insanified lets him fade back a bit while retaining that impression.

Second linki: Ahh Blooper I want to post tooooo

Boomslang wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Seems both Golden and Jay are cursed or something. Well, that sucks.

^see above. Two curses on the same day, against players who were attracting some heat? And in a game in which of the roles indicated insanifying? I'm skeptical that both of the curses are genuine. It's just too easy to fake something that looks legitimate.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Seems both Golden and Jay are cursed or something. Well, that sucks.

MovingPictures07 wrote: Also, I find your two statements contradictory. How can he be pretty much impossible to read and yet you lean town on him?

Did you read my post? I said I leaned town on Epi because I didn't think his gimmick was doing any damage to the town effort. Beyond obfuscating his own alignment, of course.

Sloonei wrote:Why do you like Scotty avoiding the INH vote?

He had a correct read on INH and promoted that read in the thread. Had we followed that advice, it would've been profitable to the town effort. That's more town evidence than we have for most people at this point.

Also, voted the mini-market because food.

RIP, INH. Honestly, I hadn't spent much time looking at you or your case. I apologize for not further substantiating my thoughts on MM, but JJJ's explanation is pretty much my train of thought. Using a weak, time-based rationale that would've made the most sense for a timmer vote to vote me. I'll have to look at MM more closely in the next day phase.

Sloonei wrote:

Boomslang wrote:Been out all Saturday. Alas. But the thing that pinged me most all day was MM jumping down my/timmer's throat for a timing thing that would've been way too clumsy for baddie move. Voting there.

What are you thoughts on Epi, Scotty, and INH?

As I've said before, Epi's gimmick renders him pretty much impossible to read at this point. I lean town for the sheer reason that he's not actively attempting to mislead the town's efforts in thread. Scotty seems authentically annoyed, and I like him avoiding the INH vote. I also like his challenges to BWT. Stronger town read than on Epi. And INH is, unfortunately, irrelevant at this point.

Been out all Saturday. Alas. But the thing that pinged me most all day was MM jumping down my/timmer's throat for a timing thing that would've been way too clumsy for baddie move. Voting there.

Sloonei wrote:

Boomslang wrote:

Sloonei wrote: How do you propose we go about taking a broad approach?

Questions everyone, don't let people slide unnoticed. It's kind of hard when low posters just... don't do anything, even when prodded :/

I agree. Got any questions for any particular people who are going by unnoticed?

Timmer: Surely not all of the "active players" you mentioned in your recent post are equal? Who, in your opinion, should post less?
LoRab: You questioned the necessity of doing anything Day 0. Who do you think made the best use of their Day 0?
A Person: Do you have... anything of value to add?

Sloonei wrote:

Boomslang wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:It's hard for me to read all of this and not see it as misdirection and intentional confusion on some level, especially when the main targets seem to be sig, BWT, and Scotty, who may as well change their avatars to bullzeyes for how they are usually treated.

Sorry, we already have a Bullzeye on this site

Though you make a good point. We need to have a broad approach this early, not zoom in on targets.

How do you propose we go about taking a broad approach?

Questions everyone, don't let people slide unnoticed. It's kind of hard when low posters just... don't do anything, even when prodded :/

insertnamehere wrote:It's hard for me to read all of this and not see it as misdirection and intentional confusion on some level, especially when the main targets seem to be sig, BWT, and Scotty, who may as well change their avatars to bullzeyes for how they are usually treated.

Sorry, we already have a Bullzeye on this site

Though you make a good point. We need to have a broad approach this early, not zoom in on targets.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:sig, all due respect, don't take my response as rude. It isn't intended that way. I just cannot possibly disagree with you more on that matter; it is unfathomable to me that anyone could think that the current activity for this game is bad for the town.

Furthermore, I didn't ask Boomslang for accurate or true reads. I find it suspicious that you are misconstruing my post as that, especially in conjunction with the fact that you say you don't like it but you don't mafia read it. I was trying to get a feel for him. I still am. I am with everyone. Reads cannot be even remotely accurate if no one pokes anyone else. I am trying to get reads on everyone I can; that's how you play the game of mafia. I think that's been a running theme in my posts, so for you to interpret my post the way that you did (saying that no one can have accurate reads) is outwardly misrepresentation or misunderstanding, and I'm inclined to believe the former at the moment.

What sort of reads did you ask him for?

Yeah, I agree that on the surface that sentence is dodgy. I'm inclined to give MP the benefit of the doubt with that turn of phrase, however, given the context of the paragraph. He was asking for reads, but the act of providing reads was more important to him than what those reads actually were. Gathering gist for his analytical mill later in the game and whatnot.

Metalmarsh89 wrote: Au contraire! DrWilgy has not engaged with me.

I can tell, because I usually I come out with my hands dirty.

By "engaged," I meant that he mentioned you with his "Someone engage with me so I can form reads or I'll eat Marmot's prized turnip." It's not much, but it's at least using your name in a post.

DrWilgy wrote:
What do you think of Sloon, Epi and Sig Boomslang?

As I've said previously, I read Sloon as town.
Epi has given me nothing to go on because of the gimmick. I leave it to others more acquainted with his meta to determine if that's good or bad.
Sig doesn't have much, but I like his point about Dom and think his POE reasoning is valid. Leaning town.

DrWilgy wrote:Why are there so many posts already? Someone engage with me so I can form reads or I'll eat Marmot's prized turnip.

Because this is GY!BE mafia, where the thread is as long as one of their songs :P

In any case, you seem only to have meaningfully engaged with MM, Blooper, JJJ, MP, and Sloonei. I'm curious why in particular you mentioned Blooper and Sloonei: you didn't quote any of their content and offered only very short questions. Why them over, say, me or sig or Epi?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Beefs with Scotty:

Spoiler: show

Scotty wrote:

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Golden wrote:Hot takes

Bwt is town. Scotty is bad.

Can you elaborate?

No.

I mean, I could, but I'd rather not right now.

You are just as bad as me if you think I am bad without elaboration.

Also I haven't looked at my role card yet. I'll do that when the game actually starts.

I'm interested in why MP is the self-proclaimed Mother Theresa this game, and is getting a pass for listing off civs.

Yellow: This is less believable to me in this game than it would be in most games because it has become trendy. The relevant reference is in an ongoing game so I am not obliged to expand, but I don't accept this at face value.

Orange: He threw shade at MP, but only indirectly via challenging positive reads of MP -- positive reads that I don't think actually existed in this thread. Those who've expressed any trust in MP haven't referenced his civilian reads as the reason.

I think your yellow point is valid, but I think you're misinterpreting the orange point. Scotty called MP the self-proclaimed Mother Theresa; he didn't say that others were calling him that good. He may have said he's getting a pass for listing civs, but he didn't say he's getting brownie points from other people. For example, I would put MP in the gray were I to make a rainbow list.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Other than that it seems people are reading people based on their reads on other people which are based on other people's reads.

I think you just defined the game called Mafia.

Finally, something we can all agree on :P

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Boomslang wrote:Point taken, but I didn't really have much of a choice. Either I respond to MP and get accused of appeasement, or I ignore him and keep the vote. You're being opportunistic with a situation I had no part in creating.

The thing is, I agree with the either/or premise and the rock/hard place nature of the scenario. It's similar to the point I made before: once someone casts suspicion based upon the provision of content, and provision of content which follows is open to that kind of assertion. So why did that assertion apply validly to me?

Because you didn't have the sword of a vote hanging over your head. You could have chosen to stick to your guns and withhold your reads until Day 1, which you said was the appropriate time to "make things happen." I don't think anyone would have faulted you for that consistency.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Boomslang wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hey Boomslang, have my vote. Convince me you're town. What are your current reads and why? They don't have to be anything substantial by any means.

Yes, please hold me to a higher standard of proof than literally anyone else in the game, including people (cough, AP) with exactly one no-content post. Sigh. But I know you won't change the vote unless I respond, so here goes.

This is rather ironically a blatant example of appeasement, something you accused me of earlier in this thread.

Boomslang wrote:BWT - Bad. Weird contradictions in multiple posts, including defending contradictions with more contradictions.
JJJ - Bad. I agree with Sloonei's case.
Vomps - Bad. I flipped a coin and it came up tails.

What are the contradictions you're referring to regarding BWT? What about Sloonei's suspicion of me do you agree with? What is the point of including Vompatti in this post?

Point taken, but I didn't really have much of a choice. Either I respond to MP and get accused of appeasement, or I ignore him and keep the vote. You're being opportunistic with a situation I had no part in creating.

Regarding the second quote:
BWT's contradictions are the wording bits. See some of Scotty's posts where he highlights relevant content.
Sloonei's points on the way you qualified your earlier posts, doing a bit of backpeddling, are the foundation of the read.
Vomps is there for the lulz.

To MP: see above for several of your points. Leaning town on Scotty because he agrees with me on BWT. Didn't list you because you just have so friggin' much to evaluate, and I wanted to get some reads out quickly. Laying out a bajillion posts has a smokescreen effect, whether you want it to or not.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hey Boomslang, have my vote. Convince me you're town. What are your current reads and why? They don't have to be anything substantial by any means.

Yes, please hold me to a higher standard of proof than literally anyone else in the game, including people (cough, AP) with exactly one no-content post. Sigh. But I know you won't change the vote unless I respond, so here goes.

Current reads:
Golden - Town. Casual enough in the defense of my poke on him, good prodding of JJJ, sticking his neck out early with the hot takes.
Sloonei - Town. Strong reads, logic I agree with about JJJ, seems to be having fun.
Dom - Town. There are some inconsistencies in his post style, mostly capitalization, that suggest he's not overanalyzing his stuff, and I don't think he'd be so... short tempered, perhaps, if he were overly concerned about drawing votes.
BWT - Bad. Weird contradictions in multiple posts, including defending contradictions with more contradictions.
JJJ - Bad. I agree with Sloonei's case.
Vomps - Bad. I flipped a coin and it came up tails.

Golden wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Golden wrote:Hot takes

Bwt is town. Scotty is bad.

Golden, are you planning on elaborating on this anytime soon?

No. Not until at least some time towards the middle of day one. I want to let things play out a bit first.

I mean, with my read on you its gut. I wouldn't say I'm great at reading you, but your posts exude what I feel is townieness from you. It's scotty that I'm not elaborating on.

Why qualify your elaboration with that first paragraph? If you were going to give an elaboration on BWT anyway, why be coy with that "I want to let things play out a bit first"?

birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Reads I have so far? Uhhhh.....not much. But if I had to pick one or two:

- Scotty doesn't feel good to me yet. Seems awfully contradictory on your POE methodology.

- I was surprised this many players didn't know what POE was. But it makes me feel better that I'm not the only one. :P

- I'm iffy on Jay. Maybe I'm just used to him being more assertive and decisive. So that may be why I feel the way I do about him currently. But he's a solid grey and would lean ever so slightly civ on him.

- The theme is as awesome as I figured it would be.

- Nothing on Dom yet. Other than his naturally inquisitive self.

- Nothing on Boomslang yet. I'm just not seeing where you are coming from on him.

I think that's all of my definitive feelings, or as definitive as this Day 0 is so far.

I'm leaning slightly bad about this post. "If I had to pick one or two," followed by a list of six items, suggests that he's trying to plant multiple ideas into the thread while being overly casual and noncommittal about it. The combination of "Nothing on Dom," "Nothing on Boomslang," and "definitive feelings" is also contradictory, as Scotty pointed out. And again, "as definitive as this Day 0 is so far" is another way to hedge the statement while still inserting the ideas.

Linki: lol 9 pages beg to differ

MovingPictures07 wrote:I can't recall; was Tofu Boy your first win? Do you remember?

Indeed it was! Won as a baddie in WWE right after it, though.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm not sure what to make of the fact that you defended my gut dislike of you with suspicion magnet, but rest assured if you keep throwing out the content, I will fairly assess whether it makes you a town read or not. Inspire me, man.

I'm mostly just salty over Monkey Island. I have no idea where my lynch came from in that game (especially because it happened over Thanksgiving), and I'd like to avoid that happening again here.

In terms of reads, I like Golden's questioning of Jay about his stance on Day 0 content. Earlier J:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Usually I'm all for tons of chatter out of the gate, but I'm too tired to read 140 posts right now, so you can all gonto hell.

You're probably not the only one that feels that way. I think we let our dialogue drag too long and I am going to chill out for the rest of Day 0. This is check-in time, not blow up the thread time.

That changes when the lynching starts.

Then Golden:

Golden wrote:I don't know that I buy a link between trying not to create too much content, and actually not creating much content within the posts you do make, Jay.

It's possible not to post a lot but make content. My hot takes post, eg.

And then J posts a couple of small but meaty little takes on Page 6. I find that timing responsive, not self-driven.

Scotty wrote:

Boomslang wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Yo Boomslang, my gut says you're yucky. What is your response to that?

Two words: Tofu Boy.

Is that supposed to be directed at me?

Not at all. It's a reference to the Super Meat Boy game in which I was a civ with the win condition of getting lynched. It was the perfect role for me, because I seem to be one of the biggest shade magnets on this site. It's easy for MP to throw a gut baddie read at me on Day 0 because baddie reads always seem to stick on me :/

Linki: same

MovingPictures07 wrote:Yo Boomslang, my gut says you're yucky. What is your response to that?

Two words: Tofu Boy.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:a 1 colour rainbow

It's GY!BE mafia, fam. The only colors worth using are various shades of gray

Also, just listened to the first host post. W T actual F. It is a rainy day in Asheville, no sun, and I am thoroughly creeped.

Linki: Casual glance at timmer reads authentic to me as well. The "also" and "also also" construction in his post is more casual than a baddie might use when discussing the finer points of strategy.

Linki2: MP, ladies and gentlemen, making a rainbow on Day 0 :P

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Boomslang wrote:Just got off a long shift of calling farmers. Checking in, will read tomorrow.

I'm intrigued.

Part of my internship is contacting farmers for participation in my organization's Local Food Guide, which is a sort of print/online directory for people to find good sources of local produce and animal products. Last night was the first day of our phonathon, lol.

Just got off a long shift of calling farmers. Checking in, will read tomorrow.