The Syndicate

@Alison @RondoDimBuckle

It was a weird game overall. I kinda think both teams played well early (even if it looked bad in terms of town losses, town was still getting there), and both teams played worse late. Everyone had at least a little hand in both, definitely myself included.

So it goes. We're all great; we're all terrible; we're all humans.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:50 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:47 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:45 pm I’m a little concerned about the potential for toxicity. We should avoid using language like “X hates the way I play”. If you have that perception, @RondoDimBuckle, we can and should talk about it. Let’s just be mindful please and thank you
In the interest of not being a total ass. I dont mean hates me as in me, just my slot. I dont see it as a bad thing, its normal to dislike other peoples playstyles but that is half the fun. Ill rephrase going forward if you're talking in your capacity as a mod
Definitely don’t mean as a mod. Just a suggestion for the sake of game state thanks

By the way, sorry townies for this exchange up here.

It was unintentional. Rondo actually thought I might be speaking from a moderation capacity instead of just distancing. We definitely didn't mean to bring that into the game as a strategy, and I'm glad it never really came up.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:38 pm gg!

Stop yeeting me!

This time I didn’t do it!

Thanks for hosting @G-Man. The flavor was ominous and fascinating.

Good game, everyone. That's as down-to-the-wire as they come.

I said this in the dead chat, but I'll reiterate it here. @Creature: it's going to feel shitty today, but hold your head high. You were in a very tough position, and you did the best you could. Awesome game, well fought, and mad respect.

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:21 am NOTE FROM THE HOST:

Once again, I can't guarantee that I will be around at the end of the elimination poll. I will be traveling with my family this morning and through the afternoon. There is a modest chance that we won't get back from our trip until late tonight, which may conflict with the EOD proceedings.

If, in the event that I am not already logged in and visible lurking in the game thread, I would appreciate it if a mod or admin could please lock the thread after the poll closes. If that is not possible, then I ask all players to respect that the game locks down with the closing of the poll and cease all posting at that point.

Thank you!

-G

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@Alison
@Boquise
@Creature
@fingersplints
@JaggedJimmyJay
@lucy
@Marmot
@NateTheLesser
@RondoDimBuckle

@Hally
@Spacedaisy

Welp. Okay then.

Gonna lock the thread per G-Man's request.

@lucy who do you think was primarily responsible for Ender's elimination, whatever you might think of the justification or the result

Nate, Rondo please talk to me about lucy

@lucy @Alison @Marmot justify parking on me

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:28 pm If our euro friends went to sleep then it may only be possible to consolidate votes on lucy or Boq himself

Sell me, folks

Still very difficult to be here atm

If our euro friends went to sleep then it may only be possible to consolidate votes on lucy or Boq himself

@fingersplints @Boquise are y’all still around

Boquise wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:33 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:35 pm Falcon - 8 - Nate, Jimmay, Finger, Dizzy, Ender, Mac, Alison, Lucy
Ender - 3 - Creature, Marmot, Wilgy
Marmot - 2 - Boq, Falcon
Wilgy - 1 - Sean
Dizzy - 1 - Rondo

Though weirder things have happened, it would surprise me if all mafia were on the Falcon wagon.
Creature, Marmot, Boq and Rondo are the ones alive who were off it.

I also wouldn't be surprised if none of the votes hit mafia, but that's a shrug at this point.
@JaggedJimmyJay do you think all wolves piled on falcon or are some off wagon?
considering it is a t vs t top wagon thing
(frankly the only non flipped player is marmot there)

It would surprise me mildly though not “shock” me if all three mafia voted falcon when not numerically necessary. GTH no

can barely look at the thread right now folks, so bear with me

@ me with critical matters or I may not see them

still considering my vote

Boquise wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:00 pm Was Marmot and Schweppes town read in G4?
Yeah, they were.
But they were not AS broadly town read as Caps.

Any point against this is dishonest by nature tbh

I'm not sure that's a clean parallel. Maybe. What counts to me is what's happening in your head, so I will think about that.

Boquise wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:02 pm What's the point in writing "A question that is, to this point, unanswered for me," mainly, the parenthesis phrases. What is the rhetoric you're trying to convey here?

You asked if I was reading your posts, which seemed to imply you'd already addressed my commentary. So I clarified the precise matter that I viewed as unaddressed (at least not adequately) -- why Seanzie fits the description.

What I am getting at here:

Was Seanzie not also broadly town read by that point, as much as the three of us (perhaps even more than)?

A question that is, to this point, unanswered for me, Boq, is why the Seanzie kill points to that triad. I don’t think that reflects the truth of the game state at the time.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:21 pm Boq, I am not assessing whether or not your assertion is correct. It can be. I’m assessing whether or not your motivations are honest. These are things I am considering.

If it’s unclear: there is a difference between a conclusion and the process that leads to that conclusion. Both should be weighed.

Nate, I wanted to start with Creature since I never quite got around to him last phase and had been defaulting to less developed rationale when assessing him (primarily regarding the Seanzie kill).

Boq, I am not assessing whether or not your assertion is correct. It can be. I’m assessing whether or not your motivations are honest. These are things I am considering.

I continue to like where Nate's head is at.

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:15 am
fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:28 am GTH who is the exact mafia team?

Everyone pls answer
If I had to pick an exact team right now I'd say Marmot/Alison/Creature.

What's your answer?

At a glance this team also seems like it can work. There would seem to be reasonable compatibility between the three.

@Marmot — you’ve asked for takes on the town cases for Creature. What’s your take on the mafia cases for Creature?

fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:28 am GTH who is the exact mafia team?

Everyone pls answer

I asked myself this and my brain spat out Marmot, Boquise, and Creature.

Would have to dig to make sense of it the veracity of that. Marmot/Boq was the pairing I was thinking about earlier this phase.

A few questions/comments on my mind from the lab:

@Marmot, to this point you have incorporated meta pretty heavily into your solving — at least for both fingersplints and Creature. Earlier in this game you correctly noted that I was outside my scum meta, a notion you have seemingly dropped (or at least ceased to discuss) in more recent stages of play. What gives? Am I playing my scum game?

@Boquise, you’ve referenced the Boq/Alison/JJJ triad on a number of occasions. I think that this rationale was understandable around Day 2, questionable on Day 3, and flatly unjustifiable on this Day 4. How do you reconcile this? Seanzie was broadly town read, at least as much as the three of us were. It’s not at all surprising that Dizzy died before any of us.

Not entirely sure how I feel about this exercise, as I acknowledge the bias that is quite literally and deliberately built into it. However, it still might help to split the necessary hairs in the current player list. As always I welcome thoughts, about Creature above and about others I explore to come.

To ensure I am not misunderstood in this post, I am following this method (click) to presume a mafia agenda. That means I will be theorizing a mafia-aligned purpose for the posts I encounter. That doesn't mean necessarily that I think it's correct or true. It's a way of exploring a possible world both analytically and emotionally.

Creature

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Creature the mafioso had every intent of meeting his classic town volume tells but simply wasn't able to force himself through to the WIM necessary to achieve it.

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Creature the mafioso issues this vague shade at unnamed player(s) to dampen the attitude of collaboration and perhaps try to erode trust in those who are vocal and eager to solve.

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Case in point.

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This provides nice slank cover when you never think a game is going in a good direction.

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If Nate is town, then this kind of vote is about as token as it gets for the mafioso. He is understated, formal, and new to the community, so he is a pretty easy target and less likely to draw controversy when you push him.

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For Creature the mafioso this serves as a generic pocket. It's also not entirely a reflection of where Creature has been in his assessment of the gamestate at other junctures of even the same day phase.

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Creature strikes me as someone who is considerate of LHF, so to have three people in this theoretical team that [at the time] could be called potential LHF could be run-of-the-mill mafia indicative.

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omgus

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The sentence at the bottom tells the story for Creature the mafioso. The game's most contrarian player provided a very with-the-grain set of early town reads. Of the five not-Creature-himself reads, four are still alive (the other is Mac).

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EOD1's version of Creature's disdainful posts. Creature the mafioso had a hand in creating this gamestate per the previous sets of reads.

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Creature the mafioso has a sense of humor.

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Creature the mafioso is content to punt on late Day 2. Three votes, three town, and again the token pre-mischop despairing.

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Right back to it at the start of Day 3.

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Creature the mafioso still has a sense of humor.

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Creature the mafioso is forced to provide an explanation for a poorly faked read.

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"lack of any other option" -- Creature the mafioso plays some role in the generation of an unfavorable gamestate and then handwaves town misteps as though they were unavoidable. Poll dynamics suggest this is untrue.

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Creature the mafioso has grumbled about LHF chops repeatedly, and when presented with two options that are distinctly "high" hanging fruits he goes full waffle. The agenda of actions is distinct from the agenda of words.

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If Creature the mafioso is a thing, Alison the mafioso fits quite well.

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Straight into this on Day 4.

Does this mafia agenda make sense?

Technically, sure. It wouldn't be a "shocking" mafia agenda. There were some little points where I felt a little bit silly presuming the mafia agenda, particularly in the earliest portions of his posts. So some of these points are not compelling to me. If there's a lasting concern here, it's that I think there's been a little distance separating Creature's lamentations about the game state and Creature's actual pushes and votes. The game state is as much his own as it is most others'.

New Thor movie is even worse than expected

Gonna see some godawful superhero movie wif me mates and then keep at it.

I'd like to look at a few players' ISOs, but with a different analytic objective than just making raw judgments. I'm going to draw from Sloonei (one of the best late game town players in all of forum Mafia) and take a different approach. I will presume a mafia agenda exists and then determine what it must be. Then I will decide how I feel about it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:39 am There is one potential pairing of players in this game that interests me a great deal. I don't know yet what I will find when I dig, but I think it might prove pretty illuminating when I do dig. I won't say who that pairing is yet. Anyone is free to guess.

I'm going to set this aside for the moment. I have a different idea.

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:30 pm I'm wondering who is wolfier between Boq and JJJ. I don't want another mislynch.

What led you to make your choice between these two names?

Rondo, I flat don't understand your posts. I mean no offense, it's just confusing to me. If there's something you want me to talk about, I will need you to clarify and make explicit.

No, I haven't been able to put such a thing together. Are there particular interactions that interest you, Nate?

There is one potential pairing of players in this game that interests me a great deal. I don't know yet what I will find when I dig, but I think it might prove pretty illuminating when I do dig. I won't say who that pairing is yet. Anyone is free to guess.

I may adopt a policy this phase of declining to answer accusations, or at least most of them. That is one area where I think Lag had the right idea, though they took it too far with voting for themself in Game 7. My time is limited anyway, and my interest is in the hunt foremost. I can only hope that town will pay me fair heed and listen to what I have to say. Regardless of the degree of your suspicion, this is a mountainous game and should be treated accordingly. So treat me as an unknown slot rather than as a "confirmed mafioso" or as a "slot that must be resolved". This was a major pitfall of many qualifier towns, and it's one that must be avoided now.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:24 am @JaggedJimmyJay can I get your current read on Creature?

Without having completed my proper reassessment, I would call Creature town.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:14 pm What's the comparison between you and these players?

The comparison isn't perfectly one-to-one, but the spirit of the thing is what I reference. Each of them was a highly active town contributor who wasn't able to produce "expected" results and drew eventual harsh suspicion or were mischopped outright. It's become a bit of a qualifier trope, and I seem to be the best analog in this game.

Okay then. I guess I get to play the part of Ephemera or Lag or Achromatic in this mountainous tragedy. Woohoo.

I am going to have a whole lot going on over the next real-time day or so including this evening, but I will be here when I can to try to make a positive difference in this game. I'm going to try to start from scratch and do a full reassessment of the entire game. I didn't even look at this thing during the night phase. So please be patient. The game doesn't have to be torched in a dumpster.

I don't figure Alison is teamed with Ender largely because she was so unaware of his position in the game.

My top town read is probably Marmot at this point. If Ender happens to flip town, then it'd be Dizzy.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:55 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:52 pm 8h of work done, college board told me I'd skip 4 classes because of ap test credit 16h ago, if we Lynch wolf then today will have been even more fun
skipping four classes is kind if amazing, great work

- your local college instructor nerd

"kind if amazing"

- real life college human

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:52 pm 8h of work done, college board told me I'd skip 4 classes because of ap test credit 16h ago, if we Lynch wolf then today will have been even more fun

skipping four classes is kind if amazing, great work

- your local college instructor nerd

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:52 pm Thanks I think this got left on the last page.

I've said before that I thought Creature/Fingersplints had equity (they've seemed to pay more attention to each other than to other slots, especially for people that haven't been super engaged). But they've been sussing/voting each other today, and I'm less convinced that Fingersplints is scum to begin with, so. The problem with a low posting slot is they tend to leave a lot of potential pairings open.

Alright that's something to consider. I think that if you're town this kind of sorting ought to be a night phase priority for you.

C L O U T

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:46 pm I really don't like Ender going over here

why not

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:46 pm This game has taken on a ridiculous pace and volume, even by Syndicate standards.

Remind me again why I play Mafia

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:36 pm
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:34 pm I don't think the NK says anything about Creature either way. If creature's a wolf I think it would be more about his teammates than him.
That's kinda what I am getting at. As you've suspected Creature have you given mind to potential teammates?

I think this is an important question @NateTheLesser as it pertains to how much sense your reads make.

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