The Syndicate

I anticipated some of the “I’d never kill G-Man” discourse when we killed him, and I am glad that happened. I have long found that kind of thing unsavory in games. I mean no criticism at all for anyone applying it here, because I have done the same thing more than once in past games.

I’m just kinda glad that I have closed that door for myself moving forward. Now I can’t rely on that excuse regardless of alignment.

Indeed, thanks for the game Syn and S~V~S. What a bun time was had.

I ended up bussing Roxy, because Lime Coke's vote forced my hand (and he deserves much credit for that).

Once Lime voted Roxy, that left me with a dilemma. Either I immediately bus Roxy to prevent splints from voting her (so I at least have that credit on her), or I take the massive risk of hoping splints will vote Sloonei. I didn't figure splints would tie the Sloonei-Roxy tally at 2-2 and then hand me the deciding vote, so I made the quick decision to proceed with the bus. I didn't want to do that! I wanted to win yesterday!

Good game, folks. That got sweatier in the end than I would have liked.

[VOTE: fingersplints] aubergine

Gonna step back out into my trip for a bit. I'll probably be thinking the game over anyway.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 1:50 am Okay might've misinterpreted what G-Man said then.

At this point I'm sorta leaning it towards FS vote at this rate but yeah.

What leads you to that conclusion right now?

That may not be feasible unfortunately. I'm not sure I have time to review the full site spreadsheet and even find appropriate games to review without sacrificing more New Zealand than I am willing to sacrifice.

There was another thing I wanted to look into, but I am not sure how feasible it will be if I cannot reliably click links or open posts or, well, do anything, without the site exploding. If I can manage it: I want to check into splints/Roxy relationships from past games. They're a unique pair (regardless of alignment), and I think that could be informative for me.

Thank god I was able to post that without it disintegrating. Even opening the site is agony right now. I think it's a local issue for me (and this hotel).

Associations of fingersplints and Roxy

From fingersplints

Spoiler: show

fingersplints wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 7:33 pm Ok I decided to start with the dead players ISO/polls first. Almost all of this has certainly already been discussed, but posting it anyways

falcon

suspicion of Sloonei

delta “probably” maf, jjj town in jjj or delta scenario

maybe suspicion of Lime Coke

Votes Sloonei
(Day ends with falcon 3 - gman, Sloonei, and delta. Sloonei with 2 - falcon, jjj. Delta, Epi, Long Con, and Roxy 1 each)

Night 1 - gman killed

gman

slight suspicion of delta but not enough to make his POE later in last post before his falcon vote

POE - falcon, both LC’s, Roxy, Sloonei

Dr Wilgy

I didn’t get a real clear idea of who he suspected or thought was town from his posts, as there was some joking as is his norm.

Day 1 - he voted Epi but I’m not clear why. Day 2 he didn’t vote.

Vote ended with a tie ( 3 Wilgy - Epi, Lime Coke, Delta. 3 Lime Coke - Roxy, JJJ, Sloonei. 1 Delta - Long Con)

Ok I’ve run out of time to do Long Con as it’s after midnight, but so far my analysis is I can see why Lime coke and delta are getting votes just based on this alone. Delta voted for town killed both days, and received some suspicion by both killed at night (very light suspicion from gman, and voted day 2 from long Con)

Lime Coke was tied yesterday, and on gmans POE so also not a great look.

I’d probably put Sloonei in my POE just based on this ^^^ falcon’s suspicion and falcon being eliminated day 1 when he had second most votes, gmans POE. However voted Lime Coke, not Wilgy so probably not team with LC.

JJJ looking good with both his votes, and seemed town read.

Need further evaluation on epi and Roxy.

JJJ

Epi/Roxy

Sloonei

lime coke/delta

This was her first mention of Roxy on Day 3. Roxy and Epi are both only mentioned by their vote histories without a conclusive read, so there's not much to be done with this yet.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 10:04 am fingersplints/JJJ
fingersplints/Lime Coke
fingersplints/Roxy
fingersplints/Sloonei
JJJ/Lime Coke
JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Lime Coke/Roxy
Lime Coke/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

Going through all possibly pairings, I even included myself there for everyone to use, but I’m going to eliminate those for myself now as I know I’m town. I’ve also said I don’t think LC and Sloonei are together.

Roxy and JJJ (along with Sloonei) voted for Lime Coke day 2 tying for most votes, since that could have led to elimination I say I will eliminate all those pairings as well. This has pretty much cleared Lime Coke for me and leaving me with these three options to think about.

JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

The next mention is here on Day 4 (final five), when splints theorized various teams equally implicating Sloonei, Roxy, and I. Her process for arriving at these combinations was essentially mechanical -- it's what was left after she elected to remove Lime Coke from consideration. It's still valuable that she was willing to execute that process at least to this degree.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 10:33 am Been doing reading, and from Roxy, I can’t say that there is anything I found there that says she COULDN’T be paired with either JJJ or Sloonei, I didn’t find anything making it LIKELY either. I didn’t find anything too suspicious in her posts at all

This is important, as it establishes a final five platform in which Sloonei and I are both more overtly suspicious to her than Roxy is (and thus we become her odds-on votes by my interpretation).

fingersplints wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 11:55 am
Roxy wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 11:48 am Do you think I'm bad? I really thought you would come in here and be like Rox is civ.
I do like that you looked at posts made this analysis but to group me like I'm a baddie, ok I guess.

If you were voting now where do you vote?
This is what I had left just after vote analysis. I read your posts after and said I didn’t find anything too suspicious at all. I’d say you are more likely to be town at this point, leaving sloonei and jjj left.

If I was voting right now I’d vote Sloonei

This exchange is difficult to parse. I could see it being Roxy attempting to assuage fingersplints' half-concerns or serve as an emotional appeal, which would be good for splints. I could also see it as a half-hearted distancing effort that does not rake too hard and leaves room for Roxy to vote anyone else. I am not willing to offer such a significantly wifom clearance at this point in the game.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 11:59 am
Roxy wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 4:28 pm voted delta

Almost forgot to vote, no one is listening to me about Lime so I followed Epi the only other one I trust
I read this as town Rox. Slightly annoyed you feel no one is listening to you, which I don’t feel you’d want to say if you were mafia

splints bolstered the appeal to emotion character of Roxy's play. Given their history playing together, this is the kind of read where I think we'd most rely on splints as a judge of Roxy (to understand her personality when assessing things like appeal to emotion), so this troubles me some. Being wrong is not a crime, but this is a damaging sort of wrong.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 12:07 pm @Roxy if you had to vote right now who would you vote?

Standard prod, doesn't move the needle either way.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 7:22 am It is pretty typical of her. She’s probably the best at reading me.
I think her tone has been ok this game. Didn’t find anything very suspicious when reading her. Wish she’d discussed a bit more before voting, but I also don’t know her schedule today so maybe she’s busy who knows

This was a response by splints to my question for her about Roxy's relationship with her in the game. It essentially reiterates the previous viewpoint and reinforces the strength of their historical connection (granted, without claiming that splints reads Roxy as well as Roxy reads splints).

fingersplints wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 7:29 am Roxy voting Sloonei means Roxy/Sloonei isn’t a viable option, therefore IMO the only possibilities could be JJJ/Roxy, and JJJ/Sloonei. So I think JJJ is pretty confirmed mafia as far as I can deduce and I still feel Sloonei > Rox as mafia. Guess we’ll see how the rest of the day goes. Need to see more where Lime Coke is at

This one stuck in my craw a little bit. splints immediately discarded the possibility of a Sloonei/Roxy final five bus out of hand. I responded to it quite oppositely, in that I was thinking aloud about the possibility that Roxy's abrupt Sloonei vote was a coordinated move. Perhaps I was guilty of being a big Parapoia Peter, but that's kind of the name of the town game at limlo. This move allowed fingersplints to shift her attention squarely to me and Sloonei, and I question the authenticity of that.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 2:15 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 1:46 pm Ranking the likelihood of each player being partnered with Roxy:

Jay
Lime Coke
Fingersplints

I am not super confident in these rankings.
If you think Roxy is more likely paired with Lime Coke than me, how come you don’t have a Lime Coke/Roxy pairing here and instead have eliminated it?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 12:35 pm And from my perspective it is either Jay/Roxy or Roxy/fingersplints. I’m about 99% sure my vote ends up on Roxy today.
Also, correct me if I’m wrong and I could be misremembering, but I don’t remember you talking much about the possibility of a me/jjj pairing so how come that one was also eliminated and narrowed down to those two?

This is likely more about Sloonei than about Roxy, but I find it uncharitable.

~~~

There's a separate, but related, matter with fingersplints in final five that I also want to talk about. She sat on her vote the longest, which is her right. However, given the circumstances, we have to remember that the mafia needed one town to vote for one other town, and the game was over immediately (as long as their vote was still open for the town hammer).

I had personally voiced numerous suspicions of Sloonei. I was strongly considering a Sloonei vote all day long, and I think splints knew that. If I had done so, the game would have ended with the mafia joining me on that Sloonei vote (alongside Roxy). splints literally egged me on about placing my vote too:

fingersplints wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 4:08 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 5:42 pm I was hoping to be dead today. I have a trip coming and need to prepare.

I may vote reasonably early anyway. I think towns often make the mistake of waiting too long with locked votes and it prevents them from being able to operate with the information that the lock provides.
What happened to voting early?

In the end, Lime's own vote for Roxy helped to tip my own scales. It helped me to eliminate the Sloonei/splints team (not from being possible, but from being relevant -- the game would have been over), and that left me only with 1) any Roxy team, or 2) Lime being mafia. I took that leap of faith into voting based on option #1, and Roxy flipped mafia. I would owe town Lime for that (and I would both commend and question mafia Lime for making that bold bus decision).

from Roxy (not already addressed)

Spoiler: show

Roxy wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 6:52 am
G-Man wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 12:17 pm We live in a world where both of our current no-posters (Wilgy and Splints) are baddies and planning to low-post coast through Day 1 to establish psychological advantage.

Discuss.
I'm never voting splints here.

Roxy wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 7:29 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 11:52 pm Would not vote:

Delta
JJJ
DrWilgy
fingersplints (D1 courtesy only)
Surprised yet happy to see splints on your list.

Roxy wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 7:43 am Ok I am caught up and tbh there really is not much here from anyone that says "hey I am bad".

I always struggle on D 1's and am astounded at those that can pick and nudge people and find stuff on D 1.

Am not sure who is bad nor who to trust just yet. It's way too early for that.

I know I probs would not vote for Wigly or splints but I probs won't vote GMan as it has been a-while since we have last played and I am hopeful for a GMan style game since he is around! (how's the kids?)

Delta is high posting.
Lime Coke feels absent.
LC feels like he is auditioning for a SNL episode.
falcon seems normal but I cannot trust my read on him any longer.
JJJ feels like and eager beaver aiming to please.
Epi seems like Epi and since I feel he is bad he is probs good.
Sloonei I cannot even remember the last time we played but I do know this feels like you are doing your best Vompatti impression.

this is where I am and honestly very unsure of where my vote will go.

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 8:03 am easy peasy catch up

@fingersplints
splints wtf are you? iyatgyaihswcet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you flying under my radar here? My paranoia know no bounds!

Roxy wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 9:04 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 6:02 pm Show of hands. Is the following statement valid to you, yes or no?

If fingersplints was mafia, she would be more attentive to the game and also have a teammate pushing her into the thread to post and/or vote.
This is absolutely true

We can revisit this theme now, where Roxy repeatedly and vocally stood in splints' corner. With some players I might call this pocketing, but there's a uniquely Roxy reason why I don't do the same here. She is a premier example of an old-school Syndicate mindset in which BTSC is a sacred bond. I believe that Roxy would be this protective of someone she shares BTSC with, especially if that person is an old friend like fingersplints. So at the very least I am not offering town credit for this, and I would consider calling it an actual problem. This treatment was more or less mutual, and it sort of mirrors the Delta/Lime Coke experience in this game (the difference being: one of them flipped town already).

Additionally, at this stage that one exception up there, the "My paranoia know no bounds!" post, makes me laugh out loud. That is an awkward moment that feels almost forced into the universe. Roxy upheld the strong town read immediately after that when I provided a prompt. So, like, what?

~~~

Conclusion

There are some isolated moments that raise questions about splints/Roxy compatibility. However, I think this review does well to illustrate why I viewed this pairing as a meaningful possibility in the first place. There are reasons for concern here, and I don't think they require significant reaching.

As I suggested with the Lime Coke/Roxy review, I may have an impression, but my mind is not made up. I am still listening and welcome questions (as long as I can make the damned site load long enough to answer them).

This hotel wi-fi is crapping out, so I'd better get to fingersplints/Roxy before I can't load the site at all

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 12:12 am Mmmm....

Jay is there a chance you off'd G-Man because he was onto you Day 1?

Sounded like he had reserves on you but wasn't trying it for Day 1 for reasons.

If we operate hypothetically, and a game happened where I was mafia and G-Man was really on my ass on Day 1 after having been gone a while -- sure there's a chance I'd endorse killing him. I talked about this, essentially, with Epignosis and Sloonei. I won't claim a "hard no", as though I'd never ever kill G-Man, because I don't tend to close strategic doors like that in the interest of game integrity. However, I'd need a really good reason to do it.

I never actually had the impression that G-Man suspected me in this game. He may have stopped short of calling me the towniest man alive, because he is cautious, but his feedback about me was positive feedback. He framed anything else as generic paranoia or things that "always" bug him despite being a part of my personality. Anyway, I would not have a "really good" reason in this outing.

If my time zones and math are correct, we have 18 hours from this point (much of which will be lost to sleep and, in my case, travel). Let’s be mindful of that please.

fingersplints/Roxy next. I need a quick nap first, I am travel exhausted

Associations of Lime Coke and Roxy

From Lime Coke

Spoiler: show

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 1:41 pm
Roxy wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 11:33 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 12:00 am I agree with Long Con's assessment though. The mafia goofed and are unaware of the dynamic here.
I agree wholeheartedly on this.

These posts by Lime concern me. This progression and vibe are off.
They're off because I am off as well.

This has been a common refrain throughout the game for Lime Coke (lamenting that he cannot quite find the juice, so to speak). It should be noted then that it doesn't seem to matter who he is talking to when this kind of post comes up -- he said things like this to Sloonei, to me, and here to Roxy. If the alignment of his converser is not relevant, then that suggests at least that this is not evidence of their being teammates.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 4:48 am [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Finally got through.

Meh.

Between either him or Roxy.

This is- I'm down by 3 TDs and I'm saying "fuck it, DJ Moore gotta be down there somewhere" on offense - levels of confidence.

I don't feel much like voting anyone else though.

Roxy flew well under the radar for much of the game. She always seems to do that, so credit for her honing that particular skill. It's valuable then that Lime spoke against her earlier than most others (perhaps earlier than anyone?). I must also note though that the vote went to Wilgy instead, so I caution the credit.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 5:04 am The thing for Roxy BTW is more... like I see her catch up posts and wall posts... on paper this might actually be towny but there's a chance to give it too much credit while she's a wolf.
Granted I don't think her reason to scumread me is shitty either, because she just saw me in last game and saw what I do.
But I've also ran into this trap and I'm possibly giving too much credit there as well for having a wrong read and a mafia is taking advantage of my lackadaisical play.

I'm heavily conflicted there.

This post is a bit of a rollercoaster. It might be the worst moment for Lime from the standpoint of appearing to be compatible with Roxy. He can theoretically take this material any direction that he wants.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 8:37 am
Roxy wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 8:01 am So my wall posts are from a wolf but not say JJJ's or Delta's or LC's? Like what? What about mine are are wolfy?
1. Delta felt super solvey with what little the game had to offer early. Has continued and things like the Long Con read feels like good faith solving.
Annnnd maybe relate to him because we're on the bottom of the barrel this game and need to fight upwards.

2. I...actually don't know.
I actually feel like if this was like a bigger game like 15+ I'd just throw you into towns but it's lower so maybe that's why I'm being less generous?

Roxy's little "why me and not those guys?" defense makes this exchange look dissociated on its own. That may be as powerful as the previous argument to the contrary had been. There's a certain indignance and caught for the wrong reasons attitude apparent there. Lime's response may reinforce this, because he didn't respond to incredulity with more incredulity. He said he didn't know. Distancing from one's teammate rarely looks this feeble.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 11:32 am
Roxy wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 10:51 am
ok thanks for the response?

Can you answer the questions?
What are different about my posts vs JJJ or LC?
What makes my posts "wolfy"?

You only explained that Delta felt "super solvey" and you like they continued with their Long Con read in good faith. (I disagree here but we are talking about YOUR reads).
I couldn't respond to the part about JJJ or LC's posts because I didn't fully read those wall posts and I prolly won't now because I lack sleep and motivation.
I could only respond about "why your wall posts are scummy" portion and yeah...like they're really not scummy I'm sorta just getting useless paranoia/grasping at straws as I can't find anything good to push on.

This follow-up exchange is softer both ways and probably shouldn't move the needle at this point.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 4:15 pm Ah Roxy voted me...

A little dramatic.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 6:23 pm My instinct is to maybe vote between Sloonei or Roxy.

More likely Sloonei because scumreading Roxy doesn't feel right at all.

Ironic that this foretold the final five cross-vote.

It's another decent sign that Lime had provided himself this background to justify voting Sloonei during final five (something that he reinforced later when final five opened), but he still voted Roxy in the end.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 9:38 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 9:25 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 9:09 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 7:41 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 6:23 pm My instinct is to maybe vote between Sloonei or Roxy.

More likely Sloonei because scumreading Roxy doesn't feel right at all.
Why is Roxy a candidate at all then?
I had a random gut read there that also gets blocked from voting there at the same time.
Do you care to articulate either side of this read?
I wish I could.

It was like a matter of me looking at her catch up posts the other night and being like "Okay it isn't bad but also she ends up voting me in the end so maybe I'm giving too much credit for the catch up attempts and she could be taking advantage of me being a wagon?"

And the scumread has sorta lingered but hasn't really strengthened so now it's just in a non-confident state.

This is essentially a re-stating of Lime's previous waffle. To be fair, Sloonei asked for it.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 11:48 am
Roxy wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 11:46 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 11:36 am Okay I'd be open to voting Roxy out of annoyance. Fuck it.

.....

I have generally found this to be a moment of authentic antagonism between Roxy and Lime, and that would suggest they don't fit together. Under limlo conditions I will acknowledge that the wifom runs deep and retract that some. At the very least, there are already better things in this review to work with than that.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 5:34 pm Okay well.

My vote is on either JJJ or Sloonie.

Main reason being that these two should know 1. How to find someone that is obvious town like how Delta was and 2. That the POE might be massively fucked and something MIGHT need to change about it.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 4:38 pm [VOTE: Roxy] aubergine

@Syn

Fuck it I guess.

Please be right.

This combination of posts is important for Lime. He opened final five with an anti-wallpost-nerds stance, and I think he had the ammunition to stick with that if he wanted to. I had voiced numerous concerns about Sloonei, and fingersplints had included Sloonei on numerous prospective mafia teams. Mafia Lime only needs one of us to vote for Sloonei to win.

It's still possible that he believed Roxy was in a precarious enough position that he just had to bus to play it "safe" (whether it'd actually be safe is a different question from whether it'd be perceived as safe). That could be exacerbated by Roxy's near silent final five performance and her out-of-nowhere Sloonei vote.

I'm forced to make a judgment regardless. Gun-to-head, mafia Lime either votes Sloonei or holds off on voting a bit longer. So this is a net positive.

~~~

From Roxy (not already addressed)

Spoiler: show

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 7:45 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 1:41 pm They're off because I am off as well.
Wish you could buy happiness I'd get you a bowlful <3
feel better soon!

This may be a dumb read on my part, but I think Roxy misinterpreted Lime here? In a way that's less likely if they're associated? She seemed to take Lime's admission to being "off" as something more personal and external instead of just feeling off as a player and a solver. This probably shouldn't matter, but it came to mind, so there you go.

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 8:01 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 4:32 am
Delta wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 3:59 am I do want to put stock into what Long Con's saying about people being likely/unlikely to kill G-Man, I do think at the very least he's likely town from it because I cant see a partner pushing that kill through when he feels this strongly about it

I dont really think it's Brad though and given the main focus for people likely to kill him are those with less experience with him, I'm kinda at a loss because I'm town & I think he is as well

So it's a weird situation of 'where do I do from there'
Is there anyone you're seeing as wolfy or at the least not a townread? The best we can do is just try to form a wagon ourselves and see where it goes from there.
What makes you townread Delta? Is it bc they townread you? You are going to form your own wagon? Why not try to find other townies so we can actually find a baddie for elim? Maybe if we work together instead of new against old we would get somewhere.

Oh yeah, this appeal. This "olive branch" about connecting the old and new doesn't look like Roxy faking with a teammate to me. That looks like Roxy trying to assuage the concerns of her own miss-vote choice. I feel reasonably decent about that point.

Spoiler: show

I'm bringing all these together, because they establish a theme. Over the last couple days of Roxy's lifespan, she did little other than tunnel Lime Coke and lament when others "weren't listening" (despite Lime being fielded as a consistent suspect and actually tied for elimination one day). Clearly this was all phony on Roxy's part (which is not insightful, she was mafia). That phoniness comes with a flavor of blame though. Roxy has turned Lime into a piñata and isn't letting it go (even while placing a dramatic vote for Sloonei instead). There are two obvious interpretations:

1) Roxy has selected Lime as her miss-vote of choice and otherwise as the focal point of her fake hunting to stay afloat.
2) Roxy has TMI that Lime is mafia and is trying to high-road his continued existence despite silly town's refusal to let her bus.

I would favor #1 on the basis of personality. Many players would definitely be #2 types, but I don't get the impression that Roxy has ever been that type. She is not that confrontational, especially not with someone she shares BTSC with.

~~~

Conclusion

I have had to make some judgment calls here, so I am ever open to hearing the other side of the story. You'll need to talk with me about that, @fingersplints.

Nonetheless, on balance, this is a positive outcome for Lime Coke. There are a few small moments that raise questions, but the overwhelming spirit of this review is one that I don't think looks like a Roxy teammate. And that case is stronger now than it was before when it was predominantly an emotion-driven read about mutual antagonism.

I will acknowledge that I begin with a bias: I left the previous day thinking splints/Roxy makes more sense than Lime/Roxy. I will still be looking deeper into both pairings to verify for quality assurance.

What this bias means is that, for splints, if you are town it is extremely important that you listen to what I have to say with an open mind and engage me in good faith to help me find you. I will do the same with you. The same goes for town Lime, but I don't have to overcome quite the same hurdle in that world.

Alright, I'm finally in my hotel and able to sit at my laptop for this. I am going to do some reviews, and I will try to be quick about it. Frankly, I didn't come all the way here to play forum Mafia. But I will do my best within reason, and when you have questions for me you'll need to voice them. I won't be constantly poking in, but I will be vaguely available by mobile after tonight's work.

Still can’t quite post what I want to post until this New Zealand evening, but I would like to share the sign I just walked past.

Fine.

I’m literally about to board a plane to New Zealand, so I cannot post for a long while. But give me time. I have a lot to say about both of you and a lot of time to think for myself.

@Syn

Good luck and godspeed folks

I think the most likely team is either Roxy/Sloonei or Roxy/fingersplints. Hard for me to formulate a team without her in it. If it's Sloonei/splints the game is over anyway.

[VOTE: Roxy] aubergine

If there's still a game after today, please kill me. I'm going on a very long flight tomorrow and will not be able to do anything in here.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 4:08 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 5:42 pm I was hoping to be dead today. I have a trip coming and need to prepare.

I may vote reasonably early anyway. I think towns often make the mistake of waiting too long with locked votes and it prevents them from being able to operate with the information that the lock provides.
What happened to voting early?

It was no longer necessary for me to initiate things earlier once Roxy voted and initiated the cross with Sloonei.

I'm mulling things over while I deal with outside work. I will be around soon.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 2:30 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 2:21 am @Sloonei you've suggested a lot of general unawareness of the events of late Day 1. Have you gone back to look at that stretch of the game apart from within ISO reviews? As in, have you gone back and read it in proper sequence with context? If so, what's your impression of what you had missed? If not, why?
I have not. I've got a clearer picture of it now that I've done these ISOs, but I haven't gone back to read the entire thing in sequence. Why not, you ask? I think my stance on ketchup is well documented.

I meant to respond to this. Indeed, you're well-documented for being anti-ketchup, and that's a stance that I support -- generally. However, this thread has nine posts in it. There's really no ketchup involved, and it'd seem necessary for you to read things in sequence to have a contextualized and fair interpretation of everyone involved. If this game had been ridiculously active, I may not make that demand. But it's very manageable here.

Spoiler: show

It's not impossible that this was a bus (in a hypothetical Sloonei/Lime Coke team). I've seen wilder things.

It's kind of hard to see regardless, because I don't get the impression that theoretically-mafia Sloonei cared what happened to Lime Coke. The theme is G-Man was killed by Delta and/or Lime, sure, kill Lime, whatever, I'll let it tie. Gun to my head, they're not both mafia.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 2:28 am If I look purely at these posts, I would lean slightly in favor of a town read. But if I look at Lime Coke's position within the game, I would be less sure of that. HOWEVER, I then also have to identify a Lime Coke teammate if he is mafia. As splints pointed out, he may not fit on a team with any of the remaining players. But that's only if we assume he was not being bussed. And it could also be Lime Coke/fingersplits. BUT fingersplints' ISO is the only one that I've come out of with an actual town read.

fingersplints/Lime Coke is mechanically confirmed to not be the team. You'd be dead and the game would be over if they were.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 11:48 am
Roxy wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 11:46 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 11:36 am Okay I'd be open to voting Roxy out of annoyance. Fuck it.

.....

I'd dissociated Roxy and Lime Coke for this. It's not a ton I acknowledge. Lime just felt legitimately antagonized to me. This stems from his other semi-doomer posts (hopefully "doomer" isn't regarded as derogatory, kick me if so, I'm old) and builds to the annoyance, fuck it, and elipsis. Roxy is the statue of Lime's general irritation with the game experience.

Anyway that theory is likely resolved with a raw assessment of personality. Either Roxy and Sloonei are the types, or they are not the types. I wouldn't put it past Sloonei, but I am unsure in Roxy's case.

I don't see anything from Roxy in previous days to discount it.

She called him Vompatti.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 4:02 am The Sloonei/Roxy dynamic is bizarre in general. Her name shows up in only three Sloonei posts before this day phase, and her vote for him today was pretty out of the blue.

I'm not sure if Roxy is the type to bus in this manner, but I am considering it. Final five busses aren't terribly uncommon to secure final three wins.

@fingersplints you may have a uniquely insightful perspective on this one

The Sloonei/Roxy dynamic is bizarre in general. Her name shows up in only three Sloonei posts before this day phase, and her vote for him today was pretty out of the blue.

I'm not sure if Roxy is the type to bus in this manner, but I am considering it. Final five busses aren't terribly uncommon to secure final three wins.

Sloonei should regard Roxy as confirmed mafia right now given the locked vote and lack of hammer, so the "still thinking it over" stuff at least in her case is a little difficult to believe.

@Sloonei you've suggested a lot of general unawareness of the events of late Day 1. Have you gone back to look at that stretch of the game apart from within ISO reviews? As in, have you gone back and read it in proper sequence with context? If so, what's your impression of what you had missed? If not, why?

I'll take a closer look at associations soon and see where that leads me

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 2:06 am What's the towniest thing you've done this game?

Maybe voting for you on Day 1. If I am mafia and Sloonei is town, I'm not interested in drawing your attention directly to me if I don't have to. Nobody else has read me correctly in the early stages of play more consistently than you have.

Maybe my reception of Lime Coke today, based largely on Delta's appeals yesterday. I don't have to care about dead town reads.

Maybe my willingness to consider the improbability of a completely silent and voteless fingersplints yesterday. I don't have to try to find clearance for the game's least active player.

Maybe my willingness to call Epignosis town for doing something weird (clear Wilgy when he had zero posts) that doesn't have to be called town.

That's off the top of my head.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 2:05 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 2:01 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 1:58 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 1:45 am G-Man included you in his POE and called you stale.
As has been discussed elsewhere, this is not something I would have cared about, let alone noticed, on Day 1 of this game. I wasn't just stale, I was absent and expired. And, as mafia, I'm not the type to be scared of a smattering of Day 1 suspicion like that.
I don't think you were "scared". It's just a concrete, visible motivation that I'm not going to discard. G-Man suspected you, and he died. Someone killed him.

If you believe I am mafia, why would I kill G-Man?
Because it would plunge the town into 2+ phases of darkness where they convince themselves that ONLY Lime Coke or Delta could have committed such a heinous crime.

Or because he had not said or done anything that would be traced back to you or your partner. Perhaps you even liked that his death would give you ammunition to go after other town targets in the thread.

I think there's visible evidence in the thread that I wouldn't have had that first plot in mind. I spent Night 1 suspecting all of the people voting on solo wagons, and voted for Long Con out of the gate on Day 2 for being a part of that. Only when he brought up the G-Man kill as a defense did I consider that.

The other two reasons you suggest are where I invoke my own wouldn't kill G-Man. Epignosis asked me about this earlier, and I said I would need a really good reason. Those reasons are lame.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 2:01 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 1:41 am I'm concerned that there were some quite positive remarks in that review, but the overall message in this summary is a negative one.
There are definitely posts that crackle with the energy I want and expect to see from you as town. Those are there and I'm not 100% convinced we're living in the Mafia Jay World. But it's not impossible to envision that reality right now.

Even right now, I have to note that one thing you have not addressed is my concern that you have stated that, as mafia, you prefer to let the town beat itself by staying out of their way when they're wrong. Is that not an approach you've ascribed to yourself in the past?

I addressed that tangentially by referring to cheerleading.

I think any mafia team is glad to let town eat themselves. I have probably said something like that before.

For an example to the contrary in this game: I voiced concrete town rationale for falcon at EOD1 and opposed his elimination. It kind of fell on deaf ears, or at least non-voting ears.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 1:58 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 1:45 am G-Man included you in his POE and called you stale.
As has been discussed elsewhere, this is not something I would have cared about, let alone noticed, on Day 1 of this game. I wasn't just stale, I was absent and expired. And, as mafia, I'm not the type to be scared of a smattering of Day 1 suspicion like that.

I don't think you were "scared". It's just a concrete, visible motivation that I'm not going to discard. G-Man suspected you, and he died. Someone killed him.

If you believe I am mafia, why would I kill G-Man?

Reviewing Lime Coke

Spoiler: show

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 7:44 pm Looking really hard for redemption after the last game because dear god the last one was absolute hell.

And knowing my luck it'll manage to go worse.

There's still time to recapture this mindset. Do it.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 6:05 am Delta cleared the low bar for the opening of the game so he's in towns.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 3:02 am Today was a chaotic day and I apologize for the lack of presence...

Also lacking presence because the stores are closed...

JJJ attempting to do things upon Page 2 when nothing is happening is towny and his impatience to make things happen also reigns towny.

Falcon pressing randomly and answering things like Delta's questions putting reads on players feels towny.

Lemme check something else hold on...

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 3:03 am I was going to place G-Man in towns but then looked at iso and realized he wasn't really as towny so could vote there.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 3:05 am Townread:
Delta
JJJ
Falcon

Townlean:
LC

Solid start from an accuracy standpoint apart from half of the G-Man read. I'll give some credit here, because something I consider to be an important element of Lime's early town play is enthusiastic town reads to build a POE. It's at least meta on-brand.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 3:07 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 3:03 am I was going to place G-Man in towns but then looked at iso and realized he wasn't really as towny so could vote there.
Main reason being he kinda just spoke about a past game and that's really it.

Like yes it was in topic with talking about yeeting low-posters or people that didn't even post but yeah still didn't do much else.

Shaded a JJJ vote on him lightly.

I don't really object to this, as it came before G-Man's deeper assessments of the game.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 2:09 pm Damn I actually don't know who to vote in this currently.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 2:51 pm I guess Sloonei would be my pick? Kinda don't wanna get rid of him so early but...idk.

Reputation is all well and good, but I'm not sure Sloonei presented himself as someone warranting this kind of thing in this game.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 4:12 pm Okay would it look bad if I voted Falcon now?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 4:17 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 4:13 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 4:12 pm Okay would it look bad if I voted Falcon now?
I don't much care how it looks, but what's your rationale?
Wouldn't feel as bad if it's a miss.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 4:21 pm [VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 4:23 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 4:21 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 4:17 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 4:13 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 4:12 pm Okay would it look bad if I voted Falcon now?
I don't much care how it looks, but what's your rationale?
Wouldn't feel as bad if it's a miss.
Do you have a specific suspicion of falcon that overrules your previous dark green town read?
No not really.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 4:28 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 4:24 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 4:23 pm No not really.
Canned Coke with Lime, I am confused. Why?
Matter of seeing most of this game consisting of players that rarely play now, while on a Day 1 that amounted to nothing thus most of them did nothing, so I'm pulling back on voting them and voting Falcon whom I've seen hundreds of times so that those people can get into the game and see a Day 2.

Quite a brazen sequence if Lime Coke is mafia. I'd respect the hustle. The rationale ties back to Sloonei and who would "feel worse" flipping town. That is definitely not a good way to approach a vote, but I acknowledge that sometimes town do this.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 4:36 pm
Delta wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 4:35 pm I dont think my reaction is exaggerated by any means given it's just a one word answer in response

Though, sure. Do you think my reaction to Brad's post is unjustified?
Why are you confused by it?

Maybe a little obtuse

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 3:11 am Mmmm...

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

Maybe we never actually rand town together after all.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 5:02 am
Delta wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 3:15 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 3:11 am Mmmm...

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

Maybe we never actually rand town together after all.
I dont know about this, actually

Entry into today kinda surprised me but I think the drive behind "I'm never killing G-Man there" is genuine and far more likely to come from town than a wolf that's pissed their partner killed G-Man - because the latter assumes someone would've pushed the kill through and I cant see that being likely in this playerlist
You could be right and I could be skill issuing but bleh.

Lime may have been the only player willing to question Long Con after the latter's big appeals about the G-Man kill. There's two obvious interpretations available:

1) Lime Coke is doing his own thing and isn't concerned with the night kill analysis in his solving
2) Lime Coke was a G-Man killer and is playing damage control after the surprising response it generated

I think I favor #1 gun to my head. It'd just be easier to stay out of the fire here (and perhaps off of Long Con's own shit list). I acknowledge the WIFOM in that read.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 9:22 pm [VOTE: Unvote] aubergine

Just read the LC thing. Sure I'll buy it.

Or that!

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 4:28 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 11:34 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 2:07 am Oh I'm being voted.

Rather unfortunate.

Also disappointing because I'm playing like this in a game with strong players.

Not a fan of Delta being voted I'd much rather me go and y'all just don't vote him ever but bleh.
You have two votes at this time.

One is from JaggedJimmyJay. I would call him a strong player.

The other is from me.

I don't know what "playing like this" means. Playing like what? What are we supposed to take from how you are playing?
"Playing like this" as in I'm kinda just frozen not able to gain enough motivation to simply read everything, or at least look enough at everything once and because of that I have nothing beyond what I'm going off of for Day 1. Although even that stuff I went back on it like an idiot.

Like I'm fully aware I'm playing/looking like shit game play wise, it's gone to the point where I'm probably apologizing in post game because I'm not fully playing to potential nor am I making myself findable as a town player. Like I'm fully disappointed in myself, especially after how Avengers went and I was trying to use this game for redemption.

While this sentiment is laid on thick across Lime's post history, I am willing to give him a break on one dimension. Lime Coke's personality as a player is amenable to this existing in his town body. He is an emotional player in general (no slight intended, emotions are valid), and I can believe that his investment is emotionally-driven (for the better or for the worse). Lime Coke, my boy, if you're town let's work on this post-game.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 4:48 am [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Finally got through.

Meh.

Between either him or Roxy.

This is- I'm down by 3 TDs and I'm saying "fuck it, DJ Moore gotta be down there somewhere" on offense - levels of confidence.

I don't feel much like voting anyone else though.

Chicago Bears anemic offense aside, this one seems a bit left field. There isn't much of any progression prior to lead to this point, so Lime Coke ought to try to return to this moment and describe what was happening in his brain.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 5:04 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 4:48 am [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Finally got through.

Meh.

Between either him or Roxy.

This is- I'm down by 3 TDs and I'm saying "fuck it, DJ Moore gotta be down there somewhere" on offense - levels of confidence.

I don't feel much like voting anyone else though.
The thing for Roxy BTW is more... like I see her catch up posts and wall posts... on paper this might actually be towny but there's a chance to give it too much credit while she's a wolf.
Granted I don't think her reason to scumread me is shitty either, because she just saw me in last game and saw what I do.
But I've also ran into this trap and I'm possibly giving too much credit there as well for having a wrong read and a mafia is taking advantage of my lackadaisical play.

I'm heavily conflicted there.

I'm not sure that this provides Roxy with much of an avenue to reply. It doesn't necessarily have to do that.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 4:47 pm Look the way Delta has played entirely makes me think he's town.

From how he's solving.

To how he's fighting from the ground up but not taking the shortcuts on getting whoever is available and keeping his own mind to the game.

Overall think he's town.

I'll use this post as a representative for a larger set featuring the Lime Coke town reads Delta message. To separate "correct" from "TMI", I think our best tool is to rely on past experiences between the two of them. I did that here, and I think it lends some support to the idea that these two just have a good vibe together.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 6:19 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 6:02 pm Show of hands. Is the following statement valid to you, yes or no?

If fingersplints was mafia, she would be more attentive to the game and also have a teammate pushing her into the thread to post and/or vote.
This one?

It's not a bad idea overall.

I don't think I'd try to vote her out since I just spent the last day voting out the other blue low poster.

Decent that Lime was willing to throw at least loose support on this pro-splints perspective. Now it's mechanically affirmed they're not mafia teammates, so the most obvious mafia motivation is no longer applicable.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 6:27 pm I hate that Long Con as the night kill for 2 reasons.

1. It isn't me and I'm forced to continue playing like ass.

2. I need to now look at Delta although I don't want to vote the dude at all because I townread him all game and I don't wanna go back on it.

#2 conflicts some with Lime's later consternation about the votes for Delta. He should speak about that.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 8:41 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:49 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:23 am The thing is that I doubt we come to like...any middle ground considering you're probably using legit thinking and I barely am doing that because I can't get out of my own head.

That being if we're both town.
Do you have any town reads? And why?
JJJ and Delta.

Delta for basically remaining active in solving and much like me has been at the bottom fighting upwards, though he's not just taking whatever name is thrown at him he's making preferences like not taking the LC vote when I present it.

JJJ relatively the same thing with actively solving minus fighting upwards.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 5:34 pm Okay well.

My vote is on either JJJ or Sloonie.

Main reason being that these two should know 1. How to find someone that is obvious town like how Delta was and 2. That the POE might be massively fucked and something MIGHT need to change about it.

I think this specific progression (Day 3 into Day 4) shows a good mindset for Lime with the game on the line. This is a final five that begs for some amount of tinfoil, and Lime went straight to that -- without regard for what his reads were previously.

The prevailing themes here are positive. There are a couple isolated moments that aren't clear, so let's get all of that sorted. I think the more important point for Lime than his individual appearances is that I cannot find a valid teammate for him. He's mechanically cleared from being with fingersplints. He and Roxy have been perhaps the game's most antagonistic pair. Sloonei voted him into a Day 2 tie with DrWilgy when he probably wouldn't have had to do so.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 1:42 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 1:41 am The G-Man kill was a significant event that impacted the broader solving effort across the game, including from me, and I credited you as someone less likely to be into that kill. I probably shouldn't have.
Why not? I would not have killed G-man.

At this stage I cannot rely on that. While you have often praised G-Man's style and had fun with him as a host and with his playing gimmicks, that's not quite the same as the deeper connections Long Con described or the hardline policies that I associate with mafia Epignosis. G-Man included you in his POE and called you stale.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 1:23 am The volume of my content dropped off as I got deeper into this ISO, but that wasn't because I was running out of steam. As I got a clearer view of how Jay has played this game from start to finish, a couple of concerns emerged that are better expressed when taking a macro view of his posts rather than highlighting any individual posts.

One of the things (I believe) Jay has said about his approach as mafia is that he is often content to let the town beat itself. So I was on the lookout for that while reading here. Town Jay, at least in the past, was not just an analytic leader, but he was also one of the thread's biggest cheerleaders and facilitators. He will poke and prod at people to dig the thread out of ruts and so on. I can fully understand and relate to taking a step back in terms of volume. But I don't think that play style necessarily needs to be one of ultra-high-volume posting. It can be done in bite sized chunks here and there. And I do not see a whole lot of it from Jay in this game. He's prodded and engaged in some back-and-forths with folks, but I have not felt like many of those exchanges have resulted in significant progress on many things.

The easiest concrete example to point to would be his approach to the duo of Delta and Lime Coke. They became the default suspects after Long Con introduced his G-man theory on Day 2. That approach was at least 50% wrong, and I now suspect it was 100% wrong. Jay engaged pretty heavily with Long Con at the time. He also spent a decent amount of time engaging with Lime Coke and Delta, but I did not see those conversations bearing a lot of fruit. Nor did a brief exchange with Epi about the theory.

Then there is also the matter of Little Ol' Me. Jay has called me out for not engaging enough with him this game. Fair. But, like, right back at ya. I think I have said enough things for Jay to have had more to say to/about me than he has. At the same time, I think I have proceeded with enough uncertainty to warrant more skepticism from him than has been directed at me. To be fair, we may be suffering from the same affliction here: in the past, we were both so noisy and so similar, that I never felt much need to actually try to read Jay. It was just going to happen eventually. But in those days there was so much content flying around that we would inevitably end up bouncing ideas off one another anyway. This game has been slow, and I am nowhere near the chatter box I once was, so maybe we are both town and just kinda missed our opportunities earlier in the game.

But that does not erase the concerns I have about the times that Jay has directed attention toward me. It has been less impactful than I would like it to be.

I'm concerned that there were some quite positive remarks in that review, but the overall message in this summary is a negative one.

I've probably been a cheerleader less than I used to be. Frankly, I am tired of that. I don't want to be placed in that role every game, and in recent memory folks around here haven't really been receptive to it anyway. Dead games are dead regardless of me. I just suffered through that in my previous game. I'm sure there are facilitatory pushes I could have made or questions I could have asked. Even still I have been the preeminent facilitator and asker of questions that this game has had to offer.

As for skepticism of you: I tried to kill you on Day 1. I think that's an important and telling thing, and I should have extended that interaction more in the days sense. The G-Man kill was a significant event that impacted the broader solving effort across the game, including from me, and I credited you as someone less likely to be into that kill. I probably shouldn't have.

Lime not voting here should affirm that there is mafia between Sloonei and Roxy. I think. If I am not too braincooked right now.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 1:25 am I'm here and acknowledge the vote I had to drive home and forgot this game earlier.

That will do, sir.

I finished the night's work, so I'll go ahead and continue.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 11:35 pm why would the game be over? has someone other than Roxy voted?

If the team is Lime Coke/fingersplints, the game is effectively over. Just need either of them to drop in for a moment.

I'd really like some confirmation that this game is or is not mechanically over before I dedicate the time to fully reviewing Lime Coke and carrying on from there. I have a lot on my plate.

If all of that was just a giant waste of my time, I get what I deserve.

Reviewing Roxy

Spoiler: show

Roxy wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 6:52 am
G-Man wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 12:17 pm We live in a world where both of our current no-posters (Wilgy and Splints) are baddies and planning to low-post coast through Day 1 to establish psychological advantage.

Discuss.
I'm never voting splints here.

Strong pro-splints (or at least anti-vote-splints) stance in response to G-Man's thinking aloud. I believe this is the first in a series, or at least two to my memory, such comments about splints so that'll be something to follow.

Roxy wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 7:07 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 4:02 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 10:08 amWhat if I told you that there was a Canucks playoff game last night, and hockey > Maf?
I certainly believe you that hockey > Maf, though I’m not sure hockey prevents falcon from making falcon posts.
In your own words (and go easy here as it is Saturday and I'm not trying to use my brain today) please tell me what constitutes a falcon post?

This was a fair question, because I was vague in my wording. I appreciate Roxy holding me to some kind of standard here.

Roxy wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 7:07 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 7:16 pm I don't think Wilgy is mafia.
Is this in the same way I feel about splints?

Roxy wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 7:07 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 7:30 pm [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine
What made you actually throw a vote?

These kinds of questions are less impactful and don't move the needle much.

Roxy wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 7:29 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2024 11:52 pm Would not vote:

Delta
JJJ
DrWilgy
fingersplints (D1 courtesy only)
Surprised yet happy to see splints on your list.

Another solid vouch for fingersplints, at this point I believe still before she had posted. This may be more policy than interpersonal (i.e., something driven by the unique relationships that exist between splints and Roxy). I'll ask about that after this review.

Roxy wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 7:43 am Ok I am caught up and tbh there really is not much here from anyone that says "hey I am bad".

I always struggle on D 1's and am astounded at those that can pick and nudge people and find stuff on D 1.

Am not sure who is bad nor who to trust just yet. It's way too early for that.

I know I probs would not vote for Wigly or splints but I probs won't vote GMan as it has been a-while since we have last played and I am hopeful for a GMan style game since he is around! (how's the kids?)

Delta is high posting.
Lime Coke feels absent.
LC feels like he is auditioning for a SNL episode.
falcon seems normal but I cannot trust my read on him any longer.
JJJ feels like and eager beaver aiming to please.
Epi seems like Epi and since I feel he is bad he is probs good.
Sloonei I cannot even remember the last time we played but I do know this feels like you are doing your best Vompatti impression.

this is where I am and honestly very unsure of where my vote will go.

I can't quite say that these reads are actually reads. This is uninspiring.

Roxy, I believe I'd asked you what you meant exactly by "eager beaver aiming to please" before, and I don't recall seeing an answer. It could be interpreted as a good thing or as a bad thing. I'd appreciate you doing so today.

Roxy wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 10:37 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 5:09 pm @fingersplints, @Roxy --> y'all didn't vote. Why
I had planned on it but rl happened with my head and a concussion. Sometimes being a YaYa hurts. Had planned to vote Lime as they are not playing in the townie way I had gotten used to expecting.

Roxy also missed the Day 1 vote. I'm content to take this explanation and move on. I hope you're doing alright, Roxy.

I had planned on it but rl happened with my head and a concussion. Sometimes being a YaYa hurts. Had planned to vote Lime as they are not playing in the townie way I had gotten used to expecting.

I totally agree with the Gman take. He has been missed and I can say that NO - you would never have made this kill. Kinda like me with newbies and not voting them on D 1's.

I also agree that Delta going after falcon for saying he wanted to keep players that they haven't played with for awhile around.

I have also noted no mention was made of me for saying basically the same thing here:

Roxy immediately accepted Long Con's appeal regarding the G-Man kill. If there's anything to do with this, it'd be to assess if a mafia Roxy would anticipate that kind of reaction to a G-Man kill (which would be motivation not to do it). I don't think I am comfortable making that leap though.

Roxy wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 11:00 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 5:48 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 5:41 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 5:36 pm [VOTE: No Vote] aubergine

I'll think things over. I may just give Day 1 a reread since it was so short.
I appreciate that, as I am trying to convey the actual true passion I am feeling about the situation, and I hope this means that it is being felt.
At the very least, I can believe that a mafia team with Long Con that kills G-Man does so against his protest or somehow without communication. And that means something.
Maybe but tbh if I was on a team that did a kill behind my back, the next day they are being bussed heavily.

It'd be funny if this somehow ended up being literal.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 10:06 pm I will explain my falcon vote in more detail once I have food in my belly. Full sentences too much work.
Looking forward to it bc during my catch up I disliked your reasoning thinking it did not make sense. He called your response "boiler plate" level. Which cannot be good but I think he was trying to bring you more into the game and instead of town'ing up you voted him. Seemed a bit like "nananana boo-boo"

Here's some precedent for Sloonei suspicion leading to today's vote. The rationale is a bit reachy. I'm not sure falcon was "trying to bring Sloonei more into the game" as much as he was just stating a suspicion. I can agree that Sloonei's response was iffy though.

Roxy wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 11:25 am I get what you are saying but I disagree on the take. I feel the opposite is true. Bad falcon tends to be quieter and barely has reads he will stand by. Town falcon seems more involved in hunting than not and has no problem giving reads.

I'd have liked this response to Sloonei more if had come the previous day.

Roxy wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 11:33 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 12:00 am I agree with Long Con's assessment though. The mafia goofed and are unaware of the dynamic here.
I agree wholeheartedly on this.

These posts by Lime concern me. This progression and vibe are off.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 2:06 am Alright well guys I wanted to sit down and read the game but I have 0 motivation to do that and probably nobody on when I get on so...

*Touch*

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 2:07 am Oh I'm being voted.

Rather unfortunate.

Also disappointing because I'm playing like this in a game with strong players.

Not a fan of Delta being voted I'd much rather me go and y'all just don't vote him ever but bleh.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 3:11 am Mmmm...

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

Maybe we never actually rand town together after all.

Unclear what the "vibe" or "progression" refer to in this context or why they are off.

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 7:55 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 3:37 pm I’m feeling pretty wiped, so I am going to take it easy with Mafia today. I’ll still poke around periodically so if y’all want my take on something just say the word.

Otherwise I’ll be quiet for a bit.
This just feels awkward. But I get it and have felt this way before Idk if I have ever seen *you* make this sort of statement.

Fair observation. I don't typically make posts like that, so I don't fault Roxy for regarding it as awkward. Covid gonna covid

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 7:55 amUh---any of us? C'mon! While unlikely any of us would do it, it is a lie to say none of us would *ever* do it. LC with his emotional plea would be the only one I would allow ANY leeway for other than that it could be anyone in this game.

It may be implied by the "us", but here's a good opportunity to just ask the question. Roxy, would you be willing to kill G-Man on Night 1?

Delta wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 3:59 am I do want to put stock into what Long Con's saying about people being likely/unlikely to kill G-Man, I do think at the very least he's likely town from it because I cant see a partner pushing that kill through when he feels this strongly about it

I dont really think it's Brad though and given the main focus for people likely to kill him are those with less experience with him, I'm kinda at a loss because I'm town & I think he is as well

So it's a weird situation of 'where do I do from there'
What is happening Delta?
Why don't you think Lime aka brad is bad?
Why are you at a loss?
In every game I have played with I can't say I have ever seen you at a "loss" of any kind - def never a loss for words.
I would like to know your thought process for this vote - do you have a POE? Rainbow list? Or something else?

Can't blame Roxy for asking these questions when I found myself wondering many of the same things. Bless Delta, for he was innocent, but he seemed well out of character in the moment.

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 8:01 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 4:32 am
Delta wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 3:59 am I do want to put stock into what Long Con's saying about people being likely/unlikely to kill G-Man, I do think at the very least he's likely town from it because I cant see a partner pushing that kill through when he feels this strongly about it

I dont really think it's Brad though and given the main focus for people likely to kill him are those with less experience with him, I'm kinda at a loss because I'm town & I think he is as well

So it's a weird situation of 'where do I do from there'
Is there anyone you're seeing as wolfy or at the least not a townread? The best we can do is just try to form a wagon ourselves and see where it goes from there.
What makes you townread Delta? Is it bc they townread you? You are going to form your own wagon? Why not try to find other townies so we can actually find a baddie for elim? Maybe if we work together instead of new against old we would get somewhere.

That last sentence is legitimately a great sentiment. I'm not entirely sure that Roxy has lived that statement in this game, but the concept is excellent. That tension between the strategic appeal and the actual play is a bit concerning.

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 8:03 am easy peasy catch up

@fingersplints
splints wtf are you? iyatgyaihswcet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you flying under my radar here? My paranoia know no bounds!

Dramatic. I don't know what warranted paranoia about splints in this moment. People are absent sometimes.

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 8:20 am @Delta your post here in response to Gman is what made me get bad vibes from you since D 1.

You say here that LC was stoking the fire betwixt falcon and sloonei to not get his hands dirty but reading back *YOU* were also doing much of the same ---Trying not to get your hands dirty-----

then you plop that vote down on LC.

when you did the same thing. your tone reads as though you are not really gunning or looking for your own baddies but instead disagree or agree with others about their reads.

Make a list of your poe or rainbow peoples. Thanks in advance.

While the Delta read has since gone sour, I think I like the severity of this post. Particularly the motion from "you're just agreeing/disagreeing with others" to "make your own reads list" is a decent glimpse into a solving brain.

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 10:51 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 8:37 am 1. Delta felt super solvey with what little the game had to offer early. Has continued and things like the Long Con read feels like good faith solving.
Annnnd maybe relate to him because we're on the bottom of the barrel this game and need to fight upwards.

2. I...actually don't know.
I actually feel like if this was like a bigger game like 15+ I'd just throw you into towns but it's lower so maybe that's why I'm being less generous?
ok thanks for the response?

Can you answer the questions?
What are different about my posts vs JJJ or LC?
What makes my posts "wolfy"?

You only explained that Delta felt "super solvey" and you like they continued with their Long Con read in good faith. (I disagree here but we are talking about YOUR reads).

This moment is a decent reflection of the "work together instead of new against old" that Roxy mentioned previously, so at least there's more than zero evidence of that in progress. "Working together" is a stretch, but it's amicable and leaves room for some kind of productive dialogue.

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 3:59 pm vote lime

It's now or never for me as I must be in YaYa mode henceforth

I voted Lime bc that is where my hed is today. I know some think he is hunting but I've seen nothing of it. I mean I asked them to expand on why I'm bad bc of my wall posts and it turns out bc mine were the only ones they read so they couldn't give an opinion on JJJ or LC.
It stuck in my craw and now I must vote them.

We must also note that it didn't hold up. Whether this is a "problem" is wholly dependent upon Lime Coke's alignment, so perhaps I'll build on that once I get to his review.

Roxy wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 9:04 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 6:02 pm Show of hands. Is the following statement valid to you, yes or no?

If fingersplints was mafia, she would be more attentive to the game and also have a teammate pushing her into the thread to post and/or vote.
This is absolutely true

Werd, cool, I dig. Roxy's overall reception of splints has been quite positive save that moment of paranoia, so Roxy should talk about whatever that was.

Roxy wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 10:43 am C'mon that eod with Lime and Delta both voting Wigly felt like it was a scramble to save Lime from elim.

This kind of thing doesn't thrill me. So and so was saving so and so. Meh.

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 4:28 pm voted delta

Almost forgot to vote, no one is listening to me about Lime so I followed Epi the only other one I trust

Okay. Maybe a bit lame to credit the miss-vote to Epignosis instead of taking responsibility.

There are some decent moments in here, though the holistic view is more ambiguous. It isn't always easy to follow where Roxy's head is at, and some of her content seems to be deceptively shallow. I wouldn't clear her on the basis of this review. Given that it's ambiguous, I'd love to hear from others (beyond just Sloonei, who has already reviewed Roxy himself).

In particular, @fingersplints, Roxy has given you unique treatment in this game (a higher level of trust). Would you say this is typical of her? How do you feel about Roxy in general, independent of POEs or associations?

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Roxy wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 4:59 pm vote sloonei

Idk just feels like no one will ever listen to me on my Lime theory so this is where I landed. PI'll locked me out when I checked it so I hope @Syn finds this acceptable

What made you choose Sloonei if you felt Lime was off the table?

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