Return to “[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts”
Seconding thisagleaminranks wrote:This game was an insane and complicated hooplah. It was real fun getting the opportunity to play. I'm amazed at how detailed and how much foresight had to go into the game and how much of a treat it was to watch it all unfold. Three cheers for our spectacular hosts.
I would have to take a long break from mafia if that was the case.Sloonei wrote:The most fitting scenario would have been you and chaindeath as the lovers.Nerolunar wrote:Its unbelieveable. Good game thoughQuin wrote:I got to the roles and I am absolutely kicking myself. I thought my lover must have died at the beginning because in 9 days we never found eachother, shiiiit.
I'll catch up with everything after lunch.
I sucked though. Chaindeath was town after all
Its unbelieveable. Good game thoughQuin wrote:I got to the roles and I am absolutely kicking myself. I thought my lover must have died at the beginning because in 9 days we never found eachother, shiiiit.
I'll catch up with everything after lunch.
Thanks MP and Daisy for hosting. This has been the best game I have had here so far 
I have mostly just went with the flow, writing when appropiate or when I have had thoughts on my mind. Trying to read people and deduce who the cops might be. I have not thought about an actual plan that I have actively been following. I have just been playing mafia and followed the thread and events as they happened, one step at a time.Sloonei wrote:So do I, but I'm having trouble being convinced that you're not a cop. So I'll ask this: What would you say has been your strategy in this game, and how have you used this to the benefit the town?Nerolunar wrote:I think Elohcin and Chaindeath are cops.Sloonei wrote:That is a question for everyone, not just the prisoner. We've got two cops left (police chief and beat cop). For the moment it's 5 vs 2, or 4 vs 2 vs 1 depending on how you want to treat the Prisoner. This is the biggest advantage we've had pretty much all game, but we're not out of the woods yet. 2 of the players remaining are still bad. I think we can safely dismiss the Prisoner and Turnip Head, and I can't speak for everyone else but I don't think I'm a cop either. So that leaves us 2 cops among the 4 of chaindeath, Elohcin, Nerolunar, and Soneji. 2 out of those 4 are bad. Which 2?
I think Elohcin and Chaindeath are cops.Sloonei wrote:That is a question for everyone, not just the prisoner. We've got two cops left (police chief and beat cop). For the moment it's 5 vs 2, or 4 vs 2 vs 1 depending on how you want to treat the Prisoner. This is the biggest advantage we've had pretty much all game, but we're not out of the woods yet. 2 of the players remaining are still bad. I think we can safely dismiss the Prisoner and Turnip Head, and I can't speak for everyone else but I don't think I'm a cop either. So that leaves us 2 cops among the 4 of chaindeath, Elohcin, Nerolunar, and Soneji. 2 out of those 4 are bad. Which 2?
Well done. Im sorry I doubted for a moment but Im happy we got the right result anyways.Here he specifically makes me remember why I was sus of Epignosis to start with. Even though he has been so god damn civ all the time it looks like some cracks might be showing. Im really wary of him now, and I also feel just a little bit better about Epi.Sloonei wrote:you want to lynch somebody else to get a read on Epi while we're in a lylo? wut? Why are you lacking confidence about Epi? You voted for him yesterday, didn't you? What about that whole thing where he tried to trap you?Nerolunar wrote:This recent spreadsheet stuff has me intrigued, so I would prefer either Chaindeath or Elohcin, just so we can get more time to see if Epignosis really is bad. Maybe Soneji is indeed bad?Prisoner 509378 wrote:Nero, you've opened this phase with eagerness on two fronts:
1. Let's lynch Elohcin.
2. Let's lynch chaindeath.
What do you think of Epignosis right now and where does he stand among your lynch priorities?
The people I am most sure of are Chaindeath and Elohcin. Im willing to give Epignosis more time. With that said though, I will vote for the player that the majority decides to lynch, providing it isn´t myself or one of my town reads(Sloonei and TH obv.)
I wont be around at EoD though, so that sucks.
Except youre not.Prisoner 509378 wrote:My confidence that we're both right is strengthening. Turnip head HURRY.
Im paranoid okay? Its exactly because we are in lylo. Right in this moment I feel more strongly about Elohcin and Chaindeath. And what does it mean as long as we hit a cop?Sloonei wrote:you want to lynch somebody else to get a read on Epi while we're in a lylo? wut? Why are you lacking confidence about Epi? You voted for him yesterday, didn't you? What about that whole thing where he tried to trap you?Nerolunar wrote:This recent spreadsheet stuff has me intrigued, so I would prefer either Chaindeath or Elohcin, just so we can get more time to see if Epignosis really is bad. Maybe Soneji is indeed bad?Prisoner 509378 wrote:Nero, you've opened this phase with eagerness on two fronts:
1. Let's lynch Elohcin.
2. Let's lynch chaindeath.
What do you think of Epignosis right now and where does he stand among your lynch priorities?
The people I am most sure of are Chaindeath and Elohcin. Im willing to give Epignosis more time. With that said though, I will vote for the player that the majority decides to lynch, providing it isn´t myself or one of my town reads(Sloonei and TH obv.)
I wont be around at EoD though, so that sucks.
What is your case then? How is your case "genuine" if mine isn´t?chaindeath wrote:Sloonie, chaindeath doesn't think that Nero could be presenting this case as a townie genuinely.
This recent spreadsheet stuff has me intrigued, so I would prefer either Chaindeath or Elohcin, just so we can get more time to see if Epignosis really is bad. Maybe Soneji is indeed bad?Prisoner 509378 wrote:Nero, you've opened this phase with eagerness on two fronts:
1. Let's lynch Elohcin.
2. Let's lynch chaindeath.
What do you think of Epignosis right now and where does he stand among your lynch priorities?
I believed him to be bad, thats why I voted for him at that point. I had previously been null on him but then I remembered his weird behavior towards me and that made me feel that he is bad. He has not done anything to far to convince me of the opposite. I will admit that it definitely isn´t my strongest vote, but I guess it was because I was away for day 8 and 9 because of lack of willing to play mafia and I think my loose grasp of the game led me to not think that hard about reasoning. I blame myself for that actually, I could at least have checked Epis posts or somethingSloonei wrote:But why was Epi's badness a foregone conclusion to you?
I think that shift was too quick too, it almost got me lynched. That was exactly what I warned against. The move onto Dom came with more reasoning and evolved more gradually, and Im fine with that. How ironic would it be if I got lynched off of something I warned against and losing the game in the process?Prisoner 509378 wrote:After you answer Sloonei's question, please answer this one:Nerolunar wrote:You are interpreting my statement to the extreme. I wanted to be careful and to think things through, not go wild and CFD-like again. I know that was our only time lynching a cop, but at the moment of my statement it would be stupid and dangerous to do so. It was just a warning.
Why would it have been stupid or extreme? The Epi wagon eventually shifted to a Nero wagon, and then again to a Dom wagon. It wasn't quite a "CFD", but it was definitely a mass-shift. And Dom was a cop.
You are interpreting my statement to the extreme. I wanted to be careful and to think things through, not go wild and CFD-like again. I know that was our only time lynching a cop, but at the moment of my statement it would be stupid and dangerous to do so. It was just a warning.Prisoner 509378 wrote:I think I have a way to convey why his comment struck me as unnatural. When you say that "a townie should be conscious of these possibilities", I don't necessarily disagree -- but I want to you to ask yourself where your mind is when you're pursuing the lynch of a suspect you genuinely have without objective confirmation of that player truly being a baddie (like an ID or something). Are you worried about other players bussing/saving your suspect (keep in mind that at this point, the tally largely favors your suspect being lynched), or are you worried about ensuring your work was in your town's best interests? I think a townie, in a natural state, sees a tally that favors his/her preferred lynch, will say to themselves something like "okay, here we go. I think we've done this correctly, and I hope it works out." Then after the lynch is finalized and the baddie role is confirmed, that townie is able to expand their mindset to encompass more complex dynamics -- like "who attempted to save my suspect? Who might have bussed my suspect?"Sloonei wrote:I am predisposed to sympathize with Nero's caution in that post, but I understand your point. I have not been viewing Nero's post so strongly and I am inclined to agree with Soneji's take on it. Nero could have just been saying that we should be careful about those things. He was not necessarily saying that they would happen, just that they're possibilities. A townie should be conscious of these possibilities.
That said my mind is by no means made up on this matter.
Nero brought that concern into the thread as a foregone conclusion well before any lynch had been finalized, like it was his desire to lock the tally on Epignosis and create an unfavorable circumstance for a wide breadth of possible voting activity after his post. This implies an extreme degree of confidence that Epignosis is going to flip cop -- I'd argue more confidence than even you have in that truth right now. Ask yourself, if in this Day 11, a larger wagon mounted on Epignosis, what your immediate concerns would be, and what you would post in this thread.
Your answer may differ from mine, I don't know.
Yeah okay, thanks.Sloonei wrote:That was a reference to something earlier in the game, where Wilgy brought up someone's scum game from Zodiac (SVS or Epi himself, I think) as a point of reference for this game. Epi dismisses that that game can be used at all, since 9 of the 12 players in it were scum so it wasn't a real game ("Maphia" is our name for that on RYM, let's bring that over here).Nerolunar wrote:Tbh I dont even know what he means. I don´t know Wilgy that well either.
I like that its an exercise based on reads and relationships that exist and have been relevant for some time. Its another weapon to use when tone and gut are not as trusted as before, and I think its useful that it can help us find the players most likely to be scum. I'm personally not good at keeping track of people´s reads and in-game relationships so having it put down like that in a logical manner really helped me find my grasp in this game after I was nearly absent for day 8-9.Sloonei wrote:But this is just you restating your reads. Why are you referring to this exercise right now, and what do you like about it?Nerolunar wrote:My own alignment(Im town) + my trust of Soneji and distrust of Chaindeath and Epignosis. I think the scum team presented in the "If Nero and Soneji are town, then: ..." is the truth.Sloonei wrote:What causes you to trust in that exercise right now, Nero?
My own alignment(Im town) + my trust of Soneji and distrust of Chaindeath and Epignosis. I think the scum team presented in the "If Nero and Soneji are town, then: ..." is the truth.Sloonei wrote:What causes you to trust in that exercise right now, Nero?
Okay its the same.Prisoner 509378 wrote:Doing this again, but this time I will make no comments about what I think is likely or unlikely. You guys tell me.
Supposing the innocence of Sloonei and Turnip Head...
chaindeath
ElohcinSpoiler: show
EpignosisSpoiler: show
NerolunarSpoiler: show
SonejiSpoiler: show
Spoiler: show
Im aware of the possibility, but it just looks so genuine.Sloonei wrote:That is also what my 4 person cop team looked like. Are you at all worried that Soneji is perhaps juwt trying to appear agreeable so that he can buddy you and/or me?
Here he advocates to not put as much emphasis on meta, and I agree. Being fairly new here I was initially surprised how big a part meta plays. It resonated fairly well with me.Soneji wrote:Lets look at the numbers here. There are four cops to eight civs, if we assume that the seemer has been lynched. The cops will arrest at least one player tonight, potentially two. Lets assume the former, that puts us at four cops, seven civs. A mislynch next day phase will put as at best 4 vs 5 after the subsequent night phase. So at most, we can afford one mislynch if the cops don't get lucky with their 20% chance of lynching a second player.
The Scotty lynch was based on meta reasoning mainly, from how he acted in another game I wasn't in. I have had Epi try to shoot down my suspicion on Mongoose for meta reasons, SVS was saying Epi wouldn't tunnel sig if he was mafia due to meta reasons, etc...it seems this site has an over reliance on meta. Even the suspicion on me has never fully taken off as people are hesitant due to not knowing my meta. We need to stop thinking about meta and just judge the actions by themselves.
Soneji was the only person who actually understood what I meant by this.Soneji wrote:Maybe you missed the word "careful" there. Looking out for those just joining your wagon without good reason to do so or counterwagons that don't have a strong basis, is not the same as regarding every alternative lynch as a save or votes on you as bussing. Twisting suggestions to the extreme to paint someone as scum is almost exclusively done by anti-town.Epignosis wrote:Read: We must regard any alternative lynches as save attempts because Epignosis is bad, and we must regard any additional votes on Epignosis as bussing because Epignosis is bad.Nerolunar wrote:We should also be careful of bussing and new wagons popping up. There is probably going to be an attempted save at some point.
Way to think things through.
Nerolunar
Soneji also made a scumlist that was identical to the one I had in mind after reading Prisoner´s process of elimination exercise.Soneji wrote:There is certainly merit in that methodology Prisoner. At this point with so few players, process of elimination is key. I could agree that Nero/chaindeath isn't likely and Epi/Nero to a lesser extent. So for me the most likely scum team is:
Epi
chaindeath
Dom
Elo
Sure, give me a moment.Sloonei wrote:If you have time, could you pull out some quotes that demonstrate Soneji's thought processes being similar to yours?
Prisoner 509378 wrote:Nero's reaction looks like top grade b/s.
I think lots of these quotes were in your previous ISO of me. Is there anything you want me to answer to, or is it just tone-reading? I can´t really defend myself from this you know, its just how I write. If this gets me lynched I will be really pissedPrisoner 509378 wrote:Here are some non-interactive tidbits from Nero that are just yikes to me at face value.
This guy has been scummy at every turn, and instead of noticing it I've spent my time being preoccupied by murdering Epignosis and the fact that a bad Epi likely means a good Nero. Reverse that please.Spoiler: show
Why the dual choice? Im all for Chaindeath or Elohcin this phase. Mostly Chaindeath actually.Sloonei wrote:TURNIP HEAD! Help us. Who should we lynch: Epi or Nero?
Prisoner 509378 wrote:Nobody is easier lynch bait than her if she's town.
How do you feel about lynching Elohcin? Because thats where Im at, at the moment.Prisoner 509378 wrote:I don't know what TH might be talking about re: Dom but sure whatever. My vote is wherever the pitchforks want it.
If you think Im bad, do you also think Chaindeath is town then?Prisoner 509378 wrote:I agree with S~V~S about Nero. Soneji has been more outwardly townish, but it's hard to see what cop team is left if he's town. It'd be worth examining how good of team mates Epi and Soneji would be.
I'm not doing it.
Hmm yeah I understand. I do think she is most likely to be bad though, considering the circumstances.S~V~S wrote:This feels like you are throwing a teammate under the bus as she is uninvolved, and if she does flip bad, you get to say you called it. The WiFom pre-defense. This just reads that way to me.Nerolunar wrote:Just when we thought we could lock down some variables. What do we do?If we get to live another day Im inclined to believe Elohcin is still a valid lynch option, if just to decrease the number of cops.
I am. Right now its night so I can´t really vote for anyone.Dom wrote:What else are we doing but eliminating baddies?
If you feel that someone is bad, why aren't you lynching them?
What do you mean?S~V~S wrote:That post of Neros reads to me as, "I hope the Greyhound is here on time".
If we get to live another day Im inclined to believe Elohcin is still a valid lynch option, if just to decrease the number of cops.This is exactly what I knew would happen.Epignosis wrote:Nerolunar: I've been trying to lynch chaindeath for days but no one will vote for him.Nerolunar wrote:Its very clever. I think he wants to provoke a reaction from me to try to shift the wagon back on me. I have two choices:Prisoner 509378 wrote:Nero, what is your answer to Epi's chaindeath vote?
1) Vote for Chaindeath, decreasing the lead on Dom and splitting the wagon. Not a good choice.
2) Not vote for Chaindeath and get accused by Epi for being indecisive, probably causing votes to come back on me. Epi will say something like: "There is a wagon for chaindeath now, why don´t you vote for it? This is what you have been waiting for." and frame me when I don´t.
So far Im keeping my vote on Dom. I don´t want Epi to manipulate me.
Epignosis: Let's lynch chaindeath.
Nerolunar: No. I don't want you to manipulate me. We can't split the wagon.
You and chaindeath are teammates trying to hold it together for the home stretch. You don't really want chaindeath lynched, and your vote on Dom isn't from belief that he is bad, it's based on not "splitting the wagon." But since when have you ever been concerned with a bandwagon staying together?
Prisoner, I read your review. I still see kid gloves. Nerolunar's refusal to vote chaindeath now and his reasons for refusing tell me his chaindeath "suspicion" is a sham.
I guess it is this post. In hindsight it is not that great a post, but at least he provided some thoughts and tried to actively discuss something. Well, I can´t have been entirely convinced by this as my suspicion returned after a while. Hmm.chaindeath wrote:Chaindeath has finished reading all of the posts to this point, in the stead of lunch might he add. He would like to acknowledge that he is flattered that thellama would not vote to lynch chaindeath. However, He wishes to let his suspicions be known of Matt and Silverwolf. Matt is acting oddly, and chaindeath is not put at ease with any of Matt's posts. Silverwolf seems fishy as well (odd since shes a wolf and all) he is not comfortable with the snap votes as soon as the polls opened.
Also Chaindeath would like to start a discussion about the hosts night powers. Perhaps the flower of the cosmos was able to redirect the night arrest away from the intended target, especially since in the day before she lost quite a bit from her family. He proposes that she is trying to keep her family at a size that would allow for a fighting chance. In the same mannor,he took the cup, that He thinks that the foot-covering used his power to radically harm the her family. He requests your thoughts.
Its very clever. I think he wants to provoke a reaction from me to try to shift the wagon back on me. I have two choices:Prisoner 509378 wrote:Nero, what is your answer to Epi's chaindeath vote?
Well, I have been placing votes in advance due to sleep patterns on the pre-existing wagons at various day phases. Those wagons may not have gone through in the end but I have still tried to put my vote to use on the people who I was suspicious up who were a wagon at the time of my sleep. I have tried to get support for a Chaindeath lynch. I have also been afraid of pushing too hard and tunneling but I have announced my Chaindeath suspicion many times and asked people to evaluate him. No results.Epignosis wrote:How did you start bandwagoning? You have never voted for a single lynched person. Your Day 6 vote was for sig, all by yourself. That was the Day ika got lynched with eight votes (whom you voted for Day 2). Boomslang had six votes. The Day prior you voted Boomslang, but you didn't vote for him Day 6.Nerolunar wrote:Linki - Epi I have been trying. After realizing it was not going to happen I started to bandwagon more and leave Chaindeath for when people were ready to lynch him. Or well, not leave him entirely as I have voted for him a few times at the beginning of day phases, but when no support came I have been switching to other wagons. my "against wasting votes" ideal came to fruition a few days in.
Epi what do you read Chaindeath as? Which possible scumteam combination do you think is the truth?
I don't see how you throw up your hands on your top suspect only to say you started bandwagoning...when you never bandwagoned a Day in this thing.
I wanted sig lynched for ages, but I'm not going to make that happen by not convincing people to vote him. It eventually happened, even though the result wasn't what I wanted. If chaindeath is your top suspect, then why haven't you tried to get support for a lynch against him?
Because just as everyone else I think you guys have put up consistent town behavior. I trust the prisoner and his judgment too, so him trusting you settles it.Sloonei wrote: If your alignment is the only thing you've been certain about, why are you willing to trust the Prisoner's assumption that SVS, Turnip, and myself are all town?
Wait what? I never said I was not willing to lynch Chaindeath. Its you guys who won´t lynch him, not me. We need to find one suspect and lynch target, and so far none of you believe it could be Chaindeath this phase. Im fine with Dom and Elohcin too, as long as we hit a cop.Epignosis wrote:Nerolunar has gone to bed. I want full responses to what I've said. Nerolunar should be beyond willing to lynch chaindeath right now, but he's not. I want answers.
DomSloonei wrote:~*~Hey townies, look at this post!~*~
We (civs/townies) absolutely cannot split our votes. We have to consolidate all of our votes today. To be a lonewolf voter is essentially to forfeit the game. Please please please get on board with whatever bandwagon we settle on.
I agree.Prisoner 509378 wrote:I think Dom's initial reaction is rather telling though. Instead of staunchly contesting me for essentially calling him a confirmed cop, he just acted like he didn't understand my methods. He should be fighting for his life and getting angry.
Okay good. Lots of time to figure it out.Prisoner 509378 wrote:I want to hear what everyone thinks before I dedicate my vote to this process.
linki: we still have over 24 hours.
That clears Soneji for me then. That leaves out a scum team that looks like this:Prisoner 509378 wrote:Scenarios pertaining to Soneji as a townie:
If my premises are accepted, Soneji can only be a townie if Nerolunar is also a townie.Spoiler: show
Im not sure, but he has been posting a lot more and more consistently than both Chaindeath and EloSerge.Prisoner 509378 wrote:What information do you think an Epignosis lynch would provide in the event that he flips as a cop?Nerolunar wrote:Actually I said that we should pursue exactly the people that we think are scum + give most information. I don´t know how you could think that I was advocating the exact opposite of that.
Whats up?