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This. It was great having BTSC with him. I think I'd have gone insane without someone to talk to given how this definitely wasn't my best game. LC too, for the short time we had with him tooGolden wrote:Sig was phenomenal. Aced this game in every way.
Hey, jack... welcome to the syndicate!!
I think that was Olaf, if I remember correctly. Someone asked DF later on.Scotty wrote:Also who's the wise guy that killed me N1? I'm the only one listed without a killer receipt.
Maybe i committed seppuku because of my uselessness.
You wouldn't have been able to anyway, if we'd made it to another night I'd given Jack the protection for the night.Golden wrote:The thing is, if sorsha hadn't been lynched, I would have been forced to try to kill jack - I couldn't remove the townie numbers nor risk being at 8 tomorrow with only 3 cultists still not wanting the game to end, and potentially no dom to give us a vote advantage either...
If I killed jack, it would have fixed the risk profile. But it would have deprived jack and lc of the win. I really didn't want to have to do that.
Zodiac, Mad Max and this.Oh, okay. I thought it was worth 3. I did my math wrong. Daisy had an extra vote so we thought it'd be a 6v6 tie.DFaraday wrote:Dom's vote was worth 4 at this point, so there were 7 votes on Sorsha.Quin wrote:But why end it early? We figured we could force a tie. Or was our math wrong?
Risky. Dom isn't actually a cleared civ by the logic I think you're following.Golden wrote:I've put all my eggs in the dom basket, basically.
I guess so. But I'd still like DF to say so, just in case there was something else going on in that particular circumstance.Golden wrote:At this point its clear Sorsha is neither dead nor silenced so I kind of consider the question moot, since she was probably blocked by Mr Poe in any event.
Repeat of my earlier question as well:Dom wrote:DFaraday, two questions before I vote....
1) If a team only has one member left, can that member use their role power (like a block) + a kill at the same time?
2) If yes, then can that block be used to block the kill?
. But I think I've got an idea of his role this time.
No, I wouldn't. I figure I still need to post in hypotheticals so 'If Jack is VFD, lynching him would deny LC a win too'. You guys didn't even consider LC, did you?Golden wrote:Well, I'm sure you understand when I say I can't vote for one of my own. I'm sure you know, like, we could suggest Jack as a compromise candidate, but that wouldn't be fair or right, and you know it. It just is what it is at this point, I think.Quin wrote:I won't be especially upset if you do your thing, either. It's not like I've given up anyway.
This is the reason I tell people not to recruit me on pain of death to their entire team. Because when I get placed in your position, I help my old team win instead of my new one.
Except when I'm recruited early. My World Reborn recruitment was epic.
In this case, I just feel like you got very unfortunate and unlucky. You can't blame Ishmael for trying.
No I'm not. I'm asking Golden to do it based on the grounds of compromise and rationality.Dragon D. Luffy wrote:And you are asking Golden not to do it on the grounds of morality and emotion.Quin wrote:That is...................what I am doing.Dragon D. Luffy wrote:This is a game, people. You are not backstabbing each other on RL.
Play to win and stop this pointless discussion.
It's silly. Don't bother.
That is...................what I am doing.Dragon D. Luffy wrote:This is a game, people. You are not backstabbing each other on RL.
Play to win and stop this pointless discussion.
It's only been a few games that that's happened, so it's not an issue for me yet.Golden wrote:And yet, I'm still sorry that I feel we are here in this position that you might lose.Quin wrote:I think we've disagreed on every single thing in this game, Golden.
But I'm glad that you've survived this deep. It feels like you keep dying early recently, and those patches suck.
I wasn't trying to be emotionally manipulative. I just think you do have a choice. At least wait on DF's answer to my question before you throw your votes down.Golden wrote:And you're actively trying to lynch one of my teammates and asking me to do the same.Quin wrote:Right now town has the opportunity to extend their win. You're so confident Sorsha is the last baddie, so hold onto that. Town will still be able to win even after letting the cultists and VFD in on it. If something did go wrong during the night and a cultist was killed, then I'd say cut your losses and go for it. But right now you're actively working towards a pretty shit outcome for a lot of people. That sucks.
Would you lynch Jack, Quin? Would you do that to extend this? Because I think the answer is no. You're loyal to Jack, as you should be.
Don't get all righteous with me. You're not on my side. You're actively working against my team by trying to lynch one of them. I'm loyal to sig, to DDL, to dom, and I'm going to stick by them, and no amount of emotional manipulation will move me. And I have a shot for us to win the game right here, and no guarantees I'll get that shot again. Of course I'm going to take the shot.
MP and Daisy are quite literally my closest friends on this site. Friends for life. There's no way I'd actively cost them a win if I felt I had a choice. But there is no choice here.
Meh. Wait on DF to answer my question about countering role blocks before you go there.Golden wrote:I'm confident that if the four of us vote together, we end the game and win.Dragon D. Luffy wrote:There are nine players tho. What if Jack sides with Sorsha?
I don't understand this list.Dragon D. Luffy wrote:My Rainbow List (in-terms of how much someone is not Troupe, indies don't count)
DDL
Sig
Golden
Jack
Quin
MP
Daisy
Dom
Sorsha
I don't know how that would work. DFaraday can answer how he'd tackle this.Golden wrote:What if she roleblocks the VFD first?Quin wrote:If you're so confident Sorsha is the last baddie, the VFD will role block her. Poe just needs to keep his hands to himself and not kill any indies.Golden wrote:I bet. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. It's most unfair.Quin wrote:That hurts.
But, seriously, what are my other options? You simply cannot guarantee that no cult members die overnight, you can't guarantee we won't be back here tomorrow, sorsha can play us off against each other, and while I would like to be magnanimous and help everyone get a win, circumstances are such that, instead, the civs could end up losing. Also, by extending the game you're risking VFD losing as well.
Good point.Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Golden
So if Sorsha is the last scummer and the poig, she could block and kill in one night? Block and kill herself? Why do this instead of just blocking and killing say...you? Doesn't this also cause a paradox? Roleblocker roleblocking herself.
Sig's suggestion that Sunny shoot at the VFDs says he doesn't think the game ends today, which is troublesome.
If you're so confident Sorsha is the last baddie, the VFD will role block her. Poe just needs to keep his hands to himself and not kill any indies.Golden wrote:I bet. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. It's most unfair.Quin wrote:That hurts.
But, seriously, what are my other options? You simply cannot guarantee that no cult members die overnight, you can't guarantee we won't be back here tomorrow, sorsha can play us off against each other, and while I would like to be magnanimous and help everyone get a win, circumstances are such that, instead, the civs could end up losing. Also, by extending the game you're risking VFD losing as well.
That hurts.Golden wrote:There's one mafia member. It's Sorsha. We're now beyond a shadow of a doubt on this. This is where I believe we stand.
We have four civilians. They are sig, dom, DDL and I.
One survive to win indy, Jack
Three Ishmael indies, MP, Daisy, Quin
One Troupe member, sorsha.
The civilians best move is to end this, and sorry to the cult. I can't sit by and watch a civilian get lynched, nor can I guarantee that even if I did that, the cult would be able to win tomorrow. We might just be back in the same spot.
Good to hear that DDL, Dom and sig are all on the same page. I think that's what we need.
@Jack - there is no reason to assume a kill would stop you using your role power. I've never seen that done here.
Nobody can effectively recap over 30 pages. At least my memory isn't that good.Dom wrote:what exactly are you accusing me of here?Quin wrote:Golden, let's leave sig out of it for a moment.
Let's talk about Dom, using the logic I used to accuse sig. This isn't some 'if it applies to Dom, why doesn't it apply to sig' thing. I'm genuinely asking.
Dom voted to lynch LC, who would be very likely to have the bowl. The civs have no particularly strong reason to want the bowl out of play, given that lynches are their primary tool if they don't have a night kill. Do you agree? The baddies are the ones who want the bowl out of play, because it essentially leaves that townie/indy/other scum team member immune to their roles.
I have, never in my life, been accused of being a non-participant until y'all new people came in.Quin wrote:Night kill analysis isn't my thing. I'm more comfortable going off what I can read, and I can't read their BTSC chat.Golden wrote:I just have been working on a lot of deductive reasoning throughout the game. You get hints here and there, you put it together, you figure things out.
I wouldn't have voted you yesterday, either, but for Jack's vouching for LC, which confused me as to your role because I bumped you for LC. It's one of those things where I could be wrong all over the place, but I'm pretty sure I'm not, because things fit together well.
linki -you are so stubborn.
Why do sig or dom try to kill sorsha, quin? What sense does that make?
Nobody wanted to lynch sig except for me, so I think he has free reign over the night kill. It's just another bucket of 'what' he could hide behind.
As for Dom, he's a low flier. Not sure he actually knows what's going on.
linki: I get that. It's not that I don't trust you. But I'm aware that your reason for wanting to clear those two could be wrong.
I skipped 30+ pages of the game when I replaced back in. So yeah, a bit confused. No one EVER offered a recap. And you all suck and lynched me in the first place.
yeah i think i've made that clear if not drunkenlyGolden wrote:Dom, I see you there, I want your thoughts badly. Are you willing to vote Sorsha today?
Yes you do. The Vfd exists.Golden wrote:It's simple really. If we were to give the cult a break and let them try to win, sorsha just kills a cult member to delay their victory and put them in the same position tomorrow. Town doesn't have the luxury of being merciful.
I know.Golden wrote:That's not what I said.Quin wrote:I am not trying to stop a civilian win, Golden.
I don't have that luxury right now.Golden wrote:I'm saying that you don't know what the percentage of me being wrong is, and I don't know what the percentage is for you either, and we can't know that for sure. But if you believe I'm town and I believe you're helping the town then the way we win the game is to trust each other and leave the tinfoil reads behind until such time as we haven't solved the game and we need to think again.Quin wrote:Are you saying that there is a zero percent chance that your research is wrong?
Night kill analysis isn't my thing. I'm more comfortable going off what I can read, and I can't read their BTSC chat.Golden wrote:I just have been working on a lot of deductive reasoning throughout the game. You get hints here and there, you put it together, you figure things out.
I wouldn't have voted you yesterday, either, but for Jack's vouching for LC, which confused me as to your role because I bumped you for LC. It's one of those things where I could be wrong all over the place, but I'm pretty sure I'm not, because things fit together well.
linki -
Why do sig or dom try to kill sorsha, quin? What sense does that make?
With the role I've got you pegged as, I don't know how you could have cleared two townies.Golden wrote:Sig, DDL and Dom are not Troupe. Dig me?Quin wrote:MP and Daisy are not Troupe. Dig me?Golden wrote:I don't believe there are two because I don't think Sorsha would pull that stunt if there were two. But, MP and Daisy are the other options in my mind. Dom a very outside chance, but I feel confident I have him pegged.
That's why I'm telling you that it's Sorsha and Sorsha alone. I'm sure of it.
MP and Daisy are not Troupe. Dig me?Golden wrote:I don't believe there are two because I don't think Sorsha would pull that stunt if there were two. But, MP and Daisy are the other options in my mind. Dom a very outside chance, but I feel confident I have him pegged.
I don't remember how the votes were falling. I know sprit said he voted in self-defence. I'd have to get context, but on surface value I can appreciate what you're saying.Golden wrote:But Quin, if you're bussing him anyway, why clear three townies when Sprit could just not vote LC and you clear no-one?
Point taken. I didn't read his role. If that's the case, there's still two baddies. Who are they?Golden wrote:@Quin - no, the points you are making are not valid. I'm not blinded by 'reads'. I'm just looking at basic facts.
Explain to me this - if you were on sprit's team, and there was a bus going in, is there any world in which you as a team allow the votes between sprit and LC to be tied so as to clear three people?
Hell yeah I would. It was Day 2. There would be many chances to take those cleared townies out if I needed to.
@Quin - wtf? Sorsha was clearly blocked. Look at the person of indeterminate gender role! Who says Olaf is even alive?
Okay mister. Talk to me about something else. If not sig, who?Golden wrote:Good! Maybe you're waking up!Quin wrote:I struggle to believe this is just some simple matter of you having a town read on him.
I don't know why you keep throwing my suspicion that you were Ishmael at me as though it's supposed to somehow refute my points, sig. Opinions change.sig wrote:This is true.Golden wrote:Sig is known to trigger people's spidey senses when he is good. He gets lynched virtually every game he plays because people prefer that horrible sense they get when they read his posts to the evidence in front of their eyes.Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Bussing is a thing.Golden wrote:You have reason to think sig is town, which is the fact that he successfully took down people from both sides with no apparent agenda. It's not like he just joined the sprit wagon. He created it.
I asked the town if Sig is known to bus teammates. No response.
Stupid Civvies, always lynching me, it's a shocker I still play on TS.
linki: Lol yeah, that was a fun game I almost had a heart attack when MP and Ike started flaming and voting each other during the day phase when we didn't have BTSC.
linki 2: But, you kinda have been accusing me of being bad/Ishmael for a few phases
Someone did, I thought it was you. But I left two cleared townies alive in Mad Max until LYLO. If they're not a threat, there's no need to be rid of them.Golden wrote:I didn't say that. I think that's bollocks. I also think that if you are going to bus a teammate like Glorfindel, you're damn well going to make sure it doesn't lock clear three people in the process.Quin wrote:You said it. Glorfindel's role had the potential to out a teammate. If you were going to bus a teammate, Glorfindel would be it.Golden wrote:Sig is known to trigger people's spidey senses when he is good. He gets lynched virtually every game he plays because people prefer that horrible sense they get when they read his posts to the evidence in front of their eyes.Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Bussing is a thing.Golden wrote:You have reason to think sig is town, which is the fact that he successfully took down people from both sides with no apparent agenda. It's not like he just joined the sprit wagon. He created it.
I asked the town if Sig is known to bus teammates. No response.
No-one, no-one, no-one, decides to start bussing a teammate who has no heat on day one. Definitely sig doesn't, although he would bus if the situation is right. I've said it before, that I am the biggest busser on this site, and I could have believed that epi or eloh or soneji was bussing sprit, but not sig. Sig wasn't bussing.
You said it. Glorfindel's role had the potential to out a teammate. If you were going to bus a teammate, Glorfindel would be it.Golden wrote:Sig is known to trigger people's spidey senses when he is good. He gets lynched virtually every game he plays because people prefer that horrible sense they get when they read his posts to the evidence in front of their eyes.Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Bussing is a thing.Golden wrote:You have reason to think sig is town, which is the fact that he successfully took down people from both sides with no apparent agenda. It's not like he just joined the sprit wagon. He created it.
I asked the town if Sig is known to bus teammates. No response.
No-one, no-one, no-one, decides to start bussing a teammate who has no heat on day one. Definitely sig doesn't, although he would bus if the situation is right. I've said it before, that I am the biggest busser on this site, and I could have believed that epi or eloh or soneji was bussing sprit, but not sig. Sig wasn't bussing.
