The Syndicate

Shepherd was town and hero of Mass Effect. There is no such thing as a first life that makes your second life town if Shepherd wasn’t.

NAI.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:17 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:17 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:46 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:34 am I’m so happy we got a lynch. I feel really accomplished, on par with actually lynching a baddie in most games.

Same.

What now?

We lynch you again.

Rude.

Why don't we lynch you?

Derp cause I’m town, as always.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:46 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:34 am I’m so happy we got a lynch. I feel really accomplished, on par with actually lynching a baddie in most games.

Same.

What now?

We lynch you again.

I’m so happy we got a lynch. I feel really accomplished, on par with actually lynching a baddie in most games.

Pikachu gon be surprised when we actually lunch somebody.

Well so much for that theory. Nothing has changed for me with Marmot so vote Marmot

Perhaps the mafia kill is not carried out by a player or can cross beaches.

I agree with the theory that lynches and nightkills are opposite because that ensures equal tribe numbers (which is important why? Maybe this is a dumb theory) but if beaches are totally random, you could end up with no mafia on one side and a required kill on that side.

I’m still on Gen 3, okay?

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:28 pm So I'd still like to assume that by this point mafia are slowly picking off people that aren't on their team. I'm still under the impression that there are multiple mafia/killing teams. Which mean anyone that has been NK'd shouldn't earn any civvie points
That list is:
-nijuu
-me
-jack
-sig

But that also means that we shouldn't shy away from lynching those that haven't been killed yet. You see, if there is just one mafia team, they're spreading the killing around, and leveling the playing field. I'm actually shocked that nijuu, jack or myself haven't been fully killed yet. I'm not quite sure why that is, but i'm just munching on my carrot while I'm here and not asking too many questions about it.

Now if there are multiple mafia teams, leveling the playing field makes much more sense for mafia. Odds are, in multiple teams, that they kill on odd/even nights. Which means they're disadvantaged by limited opportunities and minority volume. So of course they're just going to eliminate lives slowly but methodically pick off those with 2 lives.

Watch, now that I say that, I'm gonna die tonight.

That makes two of us. Maybe it’s cause Bidoff.

sig wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:06 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:18 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:10 am

sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:28 am

LoRab wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:21 am Looks like niju has been silenced. Not sure if powers go through the night of death, or if there is another silencer.

I also don't see a reason why we wouldn't try to lynch the same as last round. In fact, sig has seemed even more suspish since then. So, as aubergine and babaganoush are delicious, vote sig

That's super scummy. Lynch someone who's last life was an obvious civ even though he was nightkillled.

Obligatory "first roles being civ in previous games doesn't mean you are civ now or even civ yesterday."

Heck, the mafia is the Evil Evens, which wasn't even a mafia team in CC123 and LC's first role was Commander Shepherd, towniest of all Mass Effect townies.

Quit with this nonsense.

Good point

My point is we are seeing hypocrisy here. Everyone else who had been killed up until this point was more or less given a free pass since mafia killed them. Now suddenly this isn't the case, but it's only not the case for me.

It's scummy that your assuming my kill was wine/misdirect. Why are you trying to take control of the narrative surrounding kills when you have no idea why scum did what they did? Unless you submitted the mafia night action.

Cause I'm clearly town so of course the mafia killed me. You almost got lynched yesterday with an overwhelming number of votes.

Why would the mafia kill you?

Cause wine or a misdirect.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:35 pm

Scotty, probably wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:38 am

Tell me about the many players who are going through the motions.

Name a player that the "why haven't you been NK'd yet" accusation does not apply to. The mafia has eliminated zero players.

I don’t feel like telling more of wallflowering people. They’re self explanatory.

And I’m specifically talking about Sloonei not being NK’d because, tbh, I think he’s been looking the towniest in terms of engagement with the thread. Next to you, I’d rank him pretty high on my town list. It just got me thinking is all.

Fixed it.

I forgot to respond to the fixed quote.

"Bleh"

" "


Anyway, Vote Marmot

Scotty, probably wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:38 am

Tell me about the many players who are going through the motions.

Name a player that the "why haven't you been NK'd yet" accusation does not apply to. The mafia has eliminated zero players.

I don’t feel like telling more of wallflowering people. They’re self explanatory.

And I’m specifically talking about Sloonei not being NK’d because, tbh, I think he’s been looking the towniest in terms of engagement with the thread. Next to you, I’d rank him pretty high on my town list. It just got me thinking is all.

Fixed it.

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:41 pm Oh ffs why is that happening whenever I use multiple quotes in a post now? I’d like to think I’m not tech-unsavvy, so what am I doing wrong?

I think you're missing a beginning or end quote or spoiler somewhere.

How mad would Pikachu be if we didn't even try to find mafia and just let them have all the votes and then when questioned were like "Well, you guys seemed to be doing just fine on your own."

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:15 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:19 am

Sloonei wrote:I expected there to be another challenge today. I was gonna recommend we throw it to let one of their players have a look at our thread.

Why do you think that? We already have a lynch immunity of sorts built in to the game, which would disregard the last challenge if it were to be played today

what?

Cause we can't get enough votes to actually lynch over here. Ergo, lynch immunity.

Derp I can't read.

EBWOP [mention]Spacedaisy[/mention]

So far, the town has eliminated just LC via lynch and he was bad, the mafia has eliminated nobody via nightkill, nobody has achieved any sex based win conditions and it is Day 6.

Which is fine. I'm good with a slow start cause of how busy I've been between hosting and the constant trips to doctor/vet/hospital my family has experience in the past month. It just means the recap is pretty short.

There you go.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:55 am I'm very sorry guys, the last couple days since coming back from my sister's place have been filled with work, making plans for a move across country and celebrating the new job he just accepted since I wasn't here when it happened. I don't have a lot of time today before work, so I'm not sure if I will get caught up before I leave this afternoon. Anyone want to give me a Cliff's Notes version of the last 48 hours?

So far, the town has eliminated just LC via lynch and he was bad, the mafia has eliminated nobody via nightkill, nobody has achieved any sex based win conditions and it is Day 6.

Which is fine. I'm good with a slow start cause of how busy I've been between hosting and the constant trips to doctor/vet/hospital my family has experience in the past month. It just means the recap is pretty short.

I like Sloonei's Marmot case, here. But I'm not a fan of this.

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:57 pm Ok.

To play devil’s advocate though, you also basically took cover under your meta for being a townie.

And wait a tic- how is it that Marmot is now your top scumread for a few days? I feel like you’ve flitted around from one candidate to another every day, and haven’t held any firm beliefs carried over after each lynch. Until Marmot.

And frankly, I’m not seeing it. He could be bad, yes. But what you’re saying about his posts can be attributed to many players on this tribe.

Why haven’t mafia tried to kill you yet? I mean they very well could have on N4, but if I were mafia I would have wanted to kill you in the 1st few cycles with how much you’ve been posting and infusing the thread.

But why haven’t you been NK’d yet?

Tell me about the many players who are going through the motions.

Name a player that the "why haven't you been NK'd yet" accusation does not apply to. The mafia has eliminated zero players.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:55 pm Sig's an odd kill choice.

It's wine or a misdirect.

sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:28 am

LoRab wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:21 am Looks like niju has been silenced. Not sure if powers go through the night of death, or if there is another silencer.

I also don't see a reason why we wouldn't try to lynch the same as last round. In fact, sig has seemed even more suspish since then. So, as aubergine and babaganoush are delicious, vote sig

That's super scummy. Lynch someone who's last life was an obvious civ even though he was nightkillled.

Obligatory "first roles being civ in previous games doesn't mean you are civ now or even civ yesterday."

Heck, the mafia is the Evil Evens, which wasn't even a mafia team in CC123 and LC's first role was Commander Shepherd, towniest of all Mass Effect townies.

Quit with this nonsense.

No, I just have a lot of feelings.

Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:05 am Guys. What if the button switches which tribe can lynch and which can NK???

The only catch with that theory is that cbob will most definitely be lynched tomorrow. But like...what if?

I’m not so sure we’re merging tomorrow either. I don’t know if we’ll ever get off this beach.

No, the button swaps all the roles, rendering the previous 6 months of the game meaningless.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:18 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:01 pm

LoRab wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:48 pm Wow. I thought we'd actually get a lynch in. But good on the other tribe for getting a mafia out. And, as Scotty said, evident that there is more than 1 mafia. Is the Evil Evens from something? Or is it just a name and there is also an Odious Odds mafia, or some such?

The Evil Evens were a team in CC-123.

I think you meant to say... The Best Team in CC-123

Objectively false. Barely even a team.

I love these host posts. I also love dead baddies. So double good outcome even if we did nothing.

This actually feels too easy but I don’t feel like I’m allowed to back out now.

Just my opinion for my playstyle. Most of what I say is law but not that.

Btsc is overrated for townies. I just say everything I’d say in there out here. Can be nice for role madness and side conversation but that’s about it.

Vote Sig

Policy lynch threats are generally empty from me but don't tell anyone.

I'll switch to Sig if you guys want to.

Sloonei, Scotty, INH have already said they'd vote for Sig. As is, we're not going to lynch anybody with only 3 votes.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:05 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:55 pm @Scotty

But is that alignment indicative for INH, Marmot or Sig?

I don’t understand the question. I think sig looks the scummiest of the 3 right now based on those factors

Based on INH and Marmot being busy?

[mention]Scotty[/mention]

But is that alignment indicative for INH, Marmot or Sig?

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:28 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:16 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:10 pm like I 100% agree that a flip would be good and positive but the thing is that's only true if we get a mafia flip, a civ flip gives us nothing. stripping players we suspect of their first lives increases our chance of being able to get a mafia flip in the future.

that's of course assuming we can ever lynch anyone at all

Lynching one civ twice is better than lynching two civs once. At least you know where you stand.

Linki

Cause sometimes I think you are good and sometimes I think you are bad. I can trust my INH radar to a degree. I always think Sig is slightly bad and I think he’s slightly bad now so why is that lynch worthy?

Can you define the parameters of your “INH radar” and why you think this is my scum game? Also, can you please read my points against sig and see how they respond to your “sig radar?”

A lot of it is gut/tone/effort. I could just tell you were good in Fellowship. Iirc, I never thought you were bad in Nightvale, though I may have voted for you or Rico just to end the massive in game feud.

Here, you have done things I have viewed as hypocritical, like voting me for inactivity after being inactive in MYLO a few days earlier in a different game and antitown, like voting me to scold me instead of trying to catch scum.

You've continually misrepresented what I've said, characterizing me as emotionally voting for you cause you tried to lynch me day 1 (yet I'm only scum reading one of the three players who did so), characterizing me as "bloodlusted" and only interested in lynch players who will flip, which is clearly untrue.

Sometimes, I don't town read a townie. Sometimes I'm not feeling it yet. I don't generally vote for that reason. However, I'm both not feeling town INH and I also see spots where you could be dishonestly pushing for townie lynches and dishonestly defending yourself.

This all said, I'm not entirely sure I've ever seen bad INH so I may be playing this by ear a bit. There's also the concern that I tend to read things from my own perspective too much and lean on the fact that I know I am town when reading other players. Like you treat me dishonestly and I'm more likely to latch onto it than if you summarize a point Kyle made in a way that changes what he's saying.


Your post on Sig is my favorite post you've made all game. Moves the RADAR a few clicks towards bad Sig (do RADARs have clicks?) but it's within the usual bounds of standard bad Signess.

I suppose I view Sig as more bad than Lorab or Wilgy. Certainly more bad than Boomslang. (My gut tells me Boomslang is bad. My head tells me I'm being too Jack focused and to remember why I townread him to begin with.) I haven't reread Marmot to remember why exactly he was looking bad to me.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:21 pm Jackofhearts2005 so what I'm gathering from this exchange is that what Scotty said isn't your actual real philosophy at all and you actually just really suspect inh?

Yes.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:10 pm like I 100% agree that a flip would be good and positive but the thing is that's only true if we get a mafia flip, a civ flip gives us nothing. stripping players we suspect of their first lives increases our chance of being able to get a mafia flip in the future.

that's of course assuming we can ever lynch anyone at all

Lynching one civ twice is better than lynching two civs once. At least you know where you stand.

Linki

Cause sometimes I think you are good and sometimes I think you are bad. I can trust my INH radar to a degree. I always think Sig is slightly bad and I think he’s slightly bad now so why is that lynch worthy?

[mention]Kylemii[/mention]

I will not chill. Straw man arguments (intentional or not) make it easy to dismiss what I’m saying because what I’m not saying sounds so silly.

I will not be silenced. I will scumread anyone who tries.

I agree with you that we should lynch suspects. We should lynch them until they are dead. We should not make selective guesses (for some players, not for others) about first roles meaning certain alignments. We should lynch suspects until they flip, which will eliminate mafia or at least learn something, unlike wishy washy first role only lynches, which do nothing to help the town.

INH happens to be on his last life and happens to be one of the players I suspect most. I am not voting for him for the former and have argued against lynching Scotty and Blooper, who the former would also apply to.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:49 pm JoH, what do you think about sig?

I think he’s bad the same amount that I always think he’s bad.

I could see him buddied with Sloonei but I think Sloonei is good.

[mention]Boomslang[/mention]
I absolutely did not. A summary:

INH - Kyle, what do you think about how Jack wants to lynch just to get flips?
Kyle - I wouldn’t want to lynch someone I didn’t suspect just to get a flip.
JoH - We should lynch people we suspect all the way so we get a flip.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:22 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:19 pm

the fuck

why

i didnt mean to post that picture.

I do agree that sig has been hanging back in the background tho. We all kinda wrote him off after that one time we almost lynched him, and he's just sitting back in his chair with his hands behind his head whistling.

Pretend I shooped a Wolverine crush meme with Scotty’s head and the picture is INH’s avatar.

INH, I like you but I think you are bad.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:30 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:52 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:54 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:21 amI’ll try and check out a couple of those games (if I can find your old baddie ones. Sounds obscure).

this is the sc2 game: link I'm the user Aardvarks Bark. Plz keep in mind that this game took place over the course of 3 days and was my first experience playing with any of these people

If you want to dig deeper there's probably some games on this website where I was bad but I don't actually remember any of them

But I like your flouty attitude and forwardness at least. You sound honest and generally care-free. Kinda like sig, except more actively involved. Ya dig?

"flouty"

What are your current thoughts on jack’s philosophy of lynching someone for alignment flip’s sake as opposed to some old-fashioned sleuthing?

I don't know.... I don't think I'd want to lynch someone purely for the sake of getting a flip out of it unless I was significantly inclined to believe they we're mafia for additional other reasons

this games format changes things a bit. everyone basically having 2 lives adds a whole new strategic layer, technically speaking we're not going to learn anything from most of the lynches we do. a lot depends on whether or not roles are curated by alignment or if they're just purely random.

What is up with these constant straw man arguments?

From all this pushback, I’m assuming none of you ever vote in regular games until someone is copped, right?

We lynch players just to get flips and because we think they may be mafia every single day of every single game.

I’m proposing we do that here, too.

The alternative (which I guess a lot of people really like) is to lynch first lives, get no flips and eliminate no scum. Also, then the mafia kills off the one life townies.

Can someone please explain to me the advantage to never lynching anyone for real in this game?

Starting now, I will vote for anyone who implies I have said that lynching one life players is the only option. What I said was we should lynch a one life player or lynch the same two life player two days in a row. Town can’t eliminate scum if they’re too chicken shit to eliminate anybody at all.

I’m not diametrically opposed to ever lynching anyone “for real.” I just think that the extra lives give us more time to decide on worthy targets for elimination. And, y’know, build real cases. I want to vote for people who have cases against them I agree with. I’m not voting for someone I’m not convinced is bad, just to eliminate someone.

You keep using game mechanics as a distraction to cover up the fact that your lynch train against me is based on nothing.

Straw man. Nobody has advocated for voting purely to get a flip or that you should vote for someone you don't suspect. You've got my vote until one of us dies.

Furthermore, your continued attempts to deflect the case against you (which is now "based on nothing" you say) only serve to bolster my suspicions. A townie wouldn't treat this so dishonestly.

Furthermore, it is Day 5 and you are advocating additional time to scumhunt without flips. Yet you've put forth basically no case. How many days further do you need to find scum before you want to eliminate a player?

I am lawful evil and Idgaf about emotional appeals.

That threat is aimed at [mention]insertnamehere[/mention] [mention]nijuukyugou[/mention] [mention]Boomslang[/mention] [mention]Scotty[/mention] [mention]Kylemii[/mention] [mention]Sloonei[/mention]

No more strawman busting.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:54 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:21 amI’ll try and check out a couple of those games (if I can find your old baddie ones. Sounds obscure).

this is the sc2 game: link I'm the user Aardvarks Bark. Plz keep in mind that this game took place over the course of 3 days and was my first experience playing with any of these people

If you want to dig deeper there's probably some games on this website where I was bad but I don't actually remember any of them

But I like your flouty attitude and forwardness at least. You sound honest and generally care-free. Kinda like sig, except more actively involved. Ya dig?

"flouty"

What are your current thoughts on jack’s philosophy of lynching someone for alignment flip’s sake as opposed to some old-fashioned sleuthing?

I don't know.... I don't think I'd want to lynch someone purely for the sake of getting a flip out of it unless I was significantly inclined to believe they we're mafia for additional other reasons

this games format changes things a bit. everyone basically having 2 lives adds a whole new strategic layer, technically speaking we're not going to learn anything from most of the lynches we do. a lot depends on whether or not roles are curated by alignment or if they're just purely random.

What is up with these constant straw man arguments?

From all this pushback, I’m assuming none of you ever vote in regular games until someone is copped, right?

We lynch players just to get flips and because we think they may be mafia every single day of every single game.

I’m proposing we do that here, too.

The alternative (which I guess a lot of people really like) is to lynch first lives, get no flips and eliminate no scum. Also, then the mafia kills off the one life townies.

Can someone please explain to me the advantage to never lynching anyone for real in this game?

Starting now, I will vote for anyone who implies I have said that lynching one life players is the only option. What I said was we should lynch a one life player or lynch the same two life player two days in a row. Town can’t eliminate scum if they’re too chicken shit to eliminate anybody at all.

Boomslang wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:18 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:55 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:11 pm Look, you can go through my posts I posted a whole thing linking to his ISOs from games where he was bad, good and even one 3P game. So I have already given my thoughts on this, I don't have time to repeat myself. Clearly I do think he is playing to his Baddie meta.

As to the first point, you don't get what I'm saying. My point is my previous suspicion is negated by the fact I feel he pretty much flipped a civ role. And I have nothing since then that leads me to suspect him for being bad. So why would I vote for him? Just because he is in a second role? Is that what you are suggesting? If so I disagree. To borrow a sentiment from 3J, I am not playing against the hosts, I am playing against the mafia. I will cast my vote against those I suspect, not against those that I think the theories on setup could possibly make bad. That is not a solid reason to do anything IMO. I am not voting for Scotty because I don't suspect Scotty's play like I do Marmot's. In fact, I have for the most part felt like Scotty was giving me civ vibes.

Do you think Juliets and Golden are making alignments clear based on the first role only?

Isn't Scotty's first role bad?

If you're going to say that INH is good because of his first role, then you have to say Scott is bad because of his first role.

You're the one playing against the mods. You're basically saying "I don't think Golden and Juliets would give this power to a baddie."

I'm playing against INH and Scotty. I'm ignoring their powers and voting based on what they're saying.

I feel like ignoring revealed information is a dangerous approach. While I don't think the mods are necessarily going to give away alignments based on roles, I agree with Spacedaisy and Scotty that those roles can give valuable information and inform alignment probabilities. I think Daisy's analysis of INH is spot-on, and I won't be putting a vote on him today.

I also feel like discounting the value of first-lynch role reveals is a way for you to bolster your "lynch someone fully to see where it goes" approach, with which I've already expressed my disapproval. It's easy to paint today as a Day One if you don't think those first role flips are valuable.

“While I don't think the mods are necessarily going to give away alignments based on roles” I am entirely basing my reads on certain players based on roles as if I did in fact think the mods were giving away alignments based on roles.

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:35 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:30 pm @Scotty

More and more antsy about INH. Why?

I keep reading into role connotations and find it hard to believe that his first role wasn’t civ. His 2nd role could be anything, sure. It could even be a boat.

So why does this cause you to hesitate in lynching INH?

[mention]Scotty[/mention]

More and more antsy about INH. Why?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:40 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:56 pm

Insertnamehere has died. He was:

39: Tina Wesson (Survivor). Each night, you will choose one player to inject with an innoculation to a particular virus. Any player who is given the innoculation will be unable to catch the virus and will be cured if they already have it. You may not target the same player twice.

Carry on.

Jackofhearts2005 Could it be mafia, possibly. But it doesn't make sense to me if they did. It is the job of the mafia to decrease the opponents numbers to where they can control the lynch. So, if you gave this role to a mafia role they would essentially be only able to use it on themselves and that is it. Otherwise it's counter productive to their win con. So yeah, I see this as a civ role.

Now, that does not mean I trust INH now. It means I don't base my vote on what I thought previously about him because I feel like I was most likely wrong. So I dimiss entirely the suspicion I felt of INH 1.0 and INH 2.0 has not done something I find suspicious. In fact I find his frustration both understandable and seemingly sincere. This has nothing to do with his previous role. I don't give a shit about his previous role except the impact it has on how I felt about him while he was in it. Those suspicions seem to be unfounded. They therefore have no bearing. And you have yet to present a good reason for me to vote for him. I don't find him suspicious at the moment, nor do I find him trustworthy. I am not going to vote to lynch him just so we can kill someone which seems to be all your case is based upon.

I'll allow it.

But you're wrong about my case.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:11 pm Look, you can go through my posts I posted a whole thing linking to his ISOs from games where he was bad, good and even one 3P game. So I have already given my thoughts on this, I don't have time to repeat myself. Clearly I do think he is playing to his Baddie meta.

As to the first point, you don't get what I'm saying. My point is my previous suspicion is negated by the fact I feel he pretty much flipped a civ role. And I have nothing since then that leads me to suspect him for being bad. So why would I vote for him? Just because he is in a second role? Is that what you are suggesting? If so I disagree. To borrow a sentiment from 3J, I am not playing against the hosts, I am playing against the mafia. I will cast my vote against those I suspect, not against those that I think the theories on setup could possibly make bad. That is not a solid reason to do anything IMO. I am not voting for Scotty because I don't suspect Scotty's play like I do Marmot's. In fact, I have for the most part felt like Scotty was giving me civ vibes.

Do you think Juliets and Golden are making alignments clear based on the first role only?

Isn't Scotty's first role bad?

If you're going to say that INH is good because of his first role, then you have to say Scott is bad because of his first role.

You're the one playing against the mods. You're basically saying "I don't think Golden and Juliets would give this power to a baddie."

I'm playing against INH and Scotty. I'm ignoring their powers and voting based on what they're saying.