The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 9:45 pm QUESTION EIGHT:

Herodotus is best known for his historical account of the Greco-Persian wars. Who is best known for recounting the events of the Peloponnesian War?

I think you'll find it is actually Frank Miller's account most scholars treat as the definitive work on the period

Good job, mafia.

I was pretty mad y'all lynched Quin and Kyle tbh. When dunya refused to talk about nova basically at all the day after i diedI pegged her for mafia (easy to say now of course). Sloonei i was wrong about but hey.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 10:31 am

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 10:28 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 10:22 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 10:16 pm Jack's game changed completely once Day 5 started. It's impossible for me to unsee it.

There are like 5 living roles that explain it plus the possibility that I just decided to get off my ass after 4 days.

Why are you stuck on this?

Why don’t you trust CBob when he says I would never bus a teammate?

Cbob's dead and also idk who Cbob is

he's one of the best mafia players i've gotten to play with in recent memory. colonialbob.

*somewhere in Hades, a shade blushes*

Sloonei reminds me of GoC Sloonei wherein he was town and got lynched because of his participation rate

(I've said this earlier this game too)

Tbh I'd vote Kyle until he releases The Winds of Winter more fanfic

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 4:10 pm I think it's alarming everyone GTH named Quin scum and yet none of us have ever voted for him.

we're probably all big wrong losers cos when does this ever happen

he's probably 3p since no one townreads him..

It's not a confident read but it kinda reminds me of FE when he was all "no I won't have opinions you can't make me" but also maybe that's just quin idk

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 4:13 pm I also find it alarming we all town read Daisy without any game mechanics being involved and without her being actively engaged in the game like TH.

For me her reaction to nova seemed genuine town

Also nova is my strongest scumread so that helps her out

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 3:25 pm Rip syndicate is giving me error 404

Interesting I looked it up and that's code for "you are mafia"

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 2:04 pm Nova
Daisy
TH

Maf
Town
Town

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 2:02 pm I knew you would be and I'm okay with it.



Jack
Bob
MP

Town
International man of mystery
Town

(Ugh I swear I'm doing these as quick as I can but my network keeps dropping in and out)

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 2:01 pm Quin
Sloonei
Marmot

Maf
Town
Town

Also literally I'm gone now sorry, toodles

Maf
Town
Town

(Also I'd play GTH but I'm about to be in a meeting for an hour)

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 1:35 pm I'd love to hand off the baton so I can clean all the egg off my face if anyone else has any bright ideas.

If I had any doubts you were supatown Jack...

Ok does somebody want to catch me up (briefly) on what I missed yesterday?

Descriptive stuff, I don't care about reads on it just yet.

Our dog passed away suddenly this morning. I'm not in any headspace to play at the moment, unfortunately. Sorry everybody.

Phew that took forever. I can't promise I'll do the post by post thing for future deep dives but I will keep looking into folks.

More Scotty & speedchuck:
The one thing that gives me pause about this is the bussability of speed. Given his role, I would expect teammates to jump on the wagon decently early. Scotty never jumps the wagon, but also does consistently discuss speed as bad. Best of both worlds?

One thing I'm taking away from this (mostly from posts I haven't reproduced here) is that nova/Scotty are not w/w but there's a solid chance one of them is a persian.

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 1:27 am I jumped to defending because I found speed’s initial “GTH” limits fishy, and I was grilling him on it. That no one really picked up on it.
I then dropped it because I remember a few people came to his defense, like jack (who has now admitted was doing so as a ruse to rile me up)

*tweet tweet* flag

"Subtly defending" was your very first mention of speed, and came before his GTH list

Sigh.

Stuff about sig: Bold proclamation that Sig is town, which is never really followed up with reasoning. Then disagrees with the lynch after it's locked in. Not great, Bob.

Colin interactions (many more so comments inside the tags):

This is taking a while, so I dont have time to do a full speedchuck interaction, but this stood out pretty starkly to me: If I hadn’t offered the olive branch on people I haven’t played with before, you would be getting my vote rIght now
[/quote]
I appreciate you olive branch Scotty, I may have to return the generous favor. I defended Dunya because I feel she's being genuine. I guess I'm better at defending than incriminating, I may have to work on my playstyle here.

I did not defend Speedchuck, I'm just really passionate about the misuse of statistics. If further evidence shows speedchuck may be scum, I will happily help lynch him (sorry @speedchuck , still love you).
[/quote]
I like your spoilers. Sometimes the quote mechanism is a bit screwy in this forum, but I like the de clutter.

Ok so when you say “return the favor” on the olive branch, are you just saying that because you suspect me? I think you should go for it if so, otherwise no need. I’m a strong boy (or so my momma says) and I can take it

And yes, you did defend Speedchuck by latching on to jack’s ‘statistically speaking’ comment. You are technically correct, but before he explains his motivation behind it, you made a conscious decision to respond to that opinion, attempting to set the record straight for speed. That may very well be your playstyle to correct statistical misanalysis, but to not see that as a subtle form of defense is suspect too.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]
"Subtly defending"? First of all, that's a pretty weak accusation. Jack was being facetious but it's a clear gamblers fallacy; big reach to say calling that out is anything but calling out logic.

Secondly, why would you jump to defending? Speed wasn't under real pressure, and this was Scotty's first mention of him. Smells like setting up a future case if speed gets lynched... especially after Scotty goes after speed repeatedly to then vote luna.

Overall: not good, but not damning. IMO the Luna comment is the biggest negative point.

Doing ISOs on a phone suuuuucks.

Incoming part 1 of my deep dive into scotland

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 5:44 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 5:42 pm (I'm assuming 3p don't count for mafia parity, since they don't know their identities)

hmmmmm how sure are we of that?

We're not, that's why it's an assumption

But it's the way I'd rule it, since parity is essentially just "speeding up the game once civs can't win," and 3p who doesn't know the mafia team could still vote for them.

The point's not really important in the analysis though

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 5:38 pm Simple math - more mafia = usually a negative number, how is that better? :\

Simple math: more mafia = better (as a mafioso)

Each mafia member lost is two civs you need to kill for parity

3 mafia: win with 6 players remaining
2 mafia: win with 4 players remaining

(I'm assuming 3p don't count for mafia parity, since they don't know their identities)

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 5:18 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 5:02 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 4:56 pm My vote for speedchuck along with my reading him and encouraging SD to give an opinion on him, which resulted in her making a case on him was 90% based on my assumption that Jack has used an info role on Speedchuck during night 4

did you see the link Scotty compiled? why would Jack wait till night 4 to use any info role on speed is the question, considering he's called for speed's lynch and scumminess practically from day 1. who else has Jack done that with? who else has Jack actively hounded up until Day 5? and coincidentally, day 5 is the day he gets heat. seems convenient? I just don't like to assume everything is a coincidence.

When have I ever bussed a teammate who was not under suspicion? @colonialbob you ever seen me do that?

The pressure you talk about was one vote from Scotty. TH’s vote doesn’t count for obvious reasons.

This. Is. Tinfoil.

Cut it out.

No.

Jack seems to subscribe (as do I) to simple math - more mafia = better. He'll jump on a teammate who gets caught, for sure, but actively bussing? Nope. And sure, speed talked about burnout, but a) he was still fighting up to the end, and b) WHY ARE WE FOCUSING SO MUCH ON WHAT HE SAID AFTER HE BECAME THE LIKELY LYNCH

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 1:41 pm Yesterday Review

Spoiler: show

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 2:02 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:59 pm @colonialbob

Tell me why Speedchuck is not a good lynch today.

He had early pressure/vote on Colin

I don't see much in his ISO that makes me real nervous I guess. I also don't see much that makes me feel real comfortable.

If nova is bad I think he is likely bad.

Soft point to lynch Nova before Speed. Lotta that from yesterday.

Check this exchange. Pro boards = btsc

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:57 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:48 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 12:19 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 12:17 pm nah dude let's pretend I'm bussing you first

I don’t get lynched but even if I did, I imagine you wouldn’t go after Speed next so that’s a no go.

This is a thing bad Jack says.

Strike 2.

This is a thing Jack says. You’re striking yourself.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 2:10 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 2:07 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 2:06 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 2:03 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 2:01 pm Actually, @colonialbob show me one time mafia Jack has ever said that. I can’t think of one.

I've seen you say that on proboards.

Moving goal posts much? What I share on a mafia btsc and what I say on a game thread are two entirely different things and you comparing the two is scummy.

K.

Talk about people besides speedchuck please.

I’ve given a read on everybody and an explanation for every one of those reads.

You talk about somebody else.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 6:14 pm Sorry folks I ended up making last minute plans after working today and only just remembered this is ending soon.

I don't love any of these trains but I admit I was mostly poking Jack to see how he'd react. I feel his reactions were fairly townie.

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

Does this read legit? “K. Talk about someone besides Speedchuck. Oh, I was just testing you. Vote:Speedchuck.” Note I am bad at reading Bob and easily buddied. Bob is aware of both these things.

Honestly?

I forgot you made the giant reads post. I was concerned mafia Jack was steering the thread by making all the conversation about speed, then you mentioned the reads post and I looked at it and that wasn't a concern anymore.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 12:38 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 12:36 pm Whatcha guys talking about?

ancient greece maybe youve heard of it

Go Greece lightning, go Greece lightning

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 10:17 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:07 am Hi. Sorry I've been absent, I had to write on my Friday off and also tomorrow and just couldn't this evening. Ill pay more attention tomorrow I promise.

Speedchuck / Scotty / Jack / MP

S & S - gonna be honest, vague feelings. Need to research.

Like Jack's effort recently. More please. Make me believe you're town looking to solve vs maf deciding to try when you finally catch heat.

MP - reasons I laid out yesterday. Will make a better more formal case tomorrow.

Let’s see that Scotty/MP research.

I'm less suspish of MP than I was, but yeah I owe y'all some book reports. Might have to wait until tonight when I can get on my computer.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 10:10 am

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 10:06 am I actually don't mean Jack, tho. I think speed's role would have encouraged early on distancing and gradual bussing rather than what Jack did. Jack initiated it, but who was on that bandwagon with a backstory and back suspicion of speed?

Kyle, TH, Wolbre, CBob, MP, Sloonei

Jack and Daisy had actual cases and went after Speed before he was going to be lynched. Choutas is dead.

Alt wagon was Marmot, Scotty, Quin, Speed

I feel like my vote was kinda the tipping point?

Like, with 4 votes and lots of undecided, it could still go either way. After my vote, the snowball was kind of rolling down the hill.

This is to say I think hardcore bussers would've been me or earlier, while voting to not look conspicuous would've been after me. (Also arguably after the next vote, who o can't remember at the moment)

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 10:07 am i feel like im seriously walking on eggshells here with the rules this phase. rip me.

Use my handy emoji-based system

Things I think that I think


lapluie / colonialbob


Jackofhearts2005
M Plus 7
Kylemii
Turnip Head


dunya
Kites / Quin
Marmot
Spacedaisy
Sloonei
wolbre04


Scotty
novaselinenever


???

Kylemii is our Homer

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 1:03 am I saw lube with the devil.

bobbo has been less than memorable of late. Come out and play @bobbo

Soonday has questionable motives.

These are accusations

yeah you're not wrong. I've been ocupado, apologies. But I'm gonna try to be more of a presence coming down to end game. Swearsie-realsies.

I plan on looking into people who are still alive.

#edgy

[mention]Spacedaisy[/mention] I know you moved your read of nova from "wrong and bad" to "just wrong" - did you explain why?

dunya wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 4:13 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 4:11 pm If Scotty doesn’t want to defend himself, that’s all I have to say about him.

I’ll be looking into Nova next. Maybe Dunya.

Quin’s likely not 3P. All the 3Ps made early trades. I don’t remember when Quin replaces in but I think all three 3P players have been around or else those trades wouldn’t have gone through.

jesus christ can we stop talking about 3ps for like 10 minutes. we are hunting for PERSIANS. we need to get rid of the PERSIANS to win. I don't give 2 shits who's 3p atm.

I agree, but the point on quin isn't a bad one for PoE purposes.

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 3:26 pm

speedchuck wrote: Town reads:
Speedchuck
Choutas
Dom
Kylemii
Kites
Scotty
sig
Sloonei
M Plus 7

Remainders:
ColinIsCool
dunya - Dunya's questioning is all over the place, but I remember it being that way in MK and in Vocaroo. She actually ended up getting lynched for it in MK, even though she pointed out the scumteam. I can't clear Dunya on a meta read, though, because I've never played with scum dunya.
Epignosis
Golden - Has done some really towny things. I didn't even mind his meta defense, but for a couple of posts that pinged me. Those that Mac didn't point out, I already did.
Jackofhearts2005
lapluie
Long Con
Lunalee
MacDougall - Wanna see how he approaches non-golden players before assigning a townread
Marmot
novaselinenever
Spacedaisy
Turnip Head
wolbre04

Feel free to call me on any of these reads. Busy day, can't do them all, so this list is for you to pick and choose.
I'll narrow down and pick out scumreads from my remainders by tomorrow.

He included Colin in his “remainder” section, without comment. I’d expect him to include at least 1, maybe 2 others in this section with Colin.

What’s odd to me is that he put Kites (now Quin) in the town read section even though Kites’ only contribution at that point was basically “hey I need to be replaced”

And yet lapluie (now Xbox), who posted just as much, was in the remainder.

Gut tells me one of them is bad

Sirrah, I am offended.

Xbox indeed. Hmmph.

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 9:45 am

dunya wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 9:37 am If I'm reading nova solely based on Colin interactions and lynch pushes, he'd be a solid town read for me

does it change your mind slightly to revisit that iso and find that nova didn’t actually mention Colin at all in D2 until he voted him towards the end of the train?

All those “pushes” were in N1

No, it doesn't. I often won't push a strong suspect until the second half of a day phase, especially with 48 hr phases. It tends to stifle discussion, which is bad. I'd much rather spend time hunting and then zero in on my main target as EoD approaches. Nova was pushing other suspects d2, not just sitting on his hands. His play reads townie to me.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 9:34 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 9:30 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 7:22 am Nova pushed pretty hard on Colin n1. I feel better about him, meaning I feel correspondingly worse about Mr 2 Hotty.

You’re leaving out the crucial part of my whole case: he then actively pursues other avenues and reads on D2 and only mentions Colin towards the EoD when there was no hope for survival. I would have expected someone that “pushed pretty hard” to continue to push for D2.

Look it up, there’s nothing there.

But why would nova have pushed on Colin at all is the question? Colin had one of the best scum roles (subjectively better than speed's even). With speed claiming burn out, if nova wanted to throw shade at someone, I imagine speed would have been the best target, esp since his role gets passed down to Colin anyway.

I just don't see it because there was only suspicion from Golden at that point, and he amplified it quite a lot. I know bussing exists, but bussing someone with 5 shots, and pretty good night actions, seems really fucking dumb.

This says my response likely better than I could.

Guys I like dunya.

Nova pushed pretty hard on Colin n1. I feel better about him, meaning I feel correspondingly worse about Mr 2 Hotty.

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun May 06, 2018 11:03 am I would gander that if nova is bad, cbob looks bad
If speed is bad, nova looks bad.
Therefore, if speed is bad, cbob looks bad

Feels a little like putting the cart before the horse, though? Like yeah I don't look great if nova is bad, and nova doesn't look good if Chuck is bad, but why skip over the intervening step? What's the point?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 6:57 pm the poll ends tomorrow i thought it ended today, no wonder no one's heere

Lol oh me too

Good I can actually pay attention tomorrow

Sorry folks I ended up making last minute plans after working today and only just remembered this is ending soon.

I don't love any of these trains but I admit I was mostly poking Jack to see how he'd react. I feel his reactions were fairly townie.

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 2:06 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 2:03 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 2:01 pm Actually, @colonialbob show me one time mafia Jack has ever said that. I can’t think of one.

I've seen you say that on proboards.

Moving goal posts much? What I share on a mafia btsc and what I say on a game thread are two entirely different things and you comparing the two is scummy.

K.

Talk about people besides speedchuck please.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 2:01 pm Actually, @colonialbob show me one time mafia Jack has ever said that. I can’t think of one.

I've seen you say that on proboards.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:59 pm @colonialbob

Tell me why Speedchuck is not a good lynch today.

He had early pressure/vote on Colin

I don't see much in his ISO that makes me real nervous I guess. I also don't see much that makes me feel real comfortable.

If nova is bad I think he is likely bad.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:45 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:54 am

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:25 am Jack is town. I am going to [VOTE: nova] aubergine

I thought I was going to give him a pass because he didn't know me but everything I've seen develop since then.... Nope. I am definitely voting here.

what's the context for the red part

I don't understand the question.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 8:41 am

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:33 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:27 am

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:25 am Jack is town. I am going to [VOTE: nova] aubergine

I thought I was going to give him a pass because he didn't know me but everything I've seen develop since then.... Nope. I am definitely voting here.

I don't know you well, but I've played with you before. Guess what ? You were bad and did the same thing, you did last day phase. So, I'm not going anywhere from you.

No man, you can't think one game has given you insight into my entire play. You're wrong. And you're bad.

How does red follow from orange?

Everything he said about me was wrong (untrue). And I believe he is bad. Pretty straightforward.

He thinks he has some correlation, one which everyone who played Fiddler with me can (and has in this game even) tell you doesn't work and even isn't true, I didn't act the same in Fiddler at all, and he yet continues to push it. He says I am bad. I am not, therefore he is wrong. I believe the reason he is wrong is because he is bad and I am the easy lynch after the Luna flip. And then, he will set up MP as well. MP is civ, dunya is civ, Jack is civ, I am civ.

Nova is bad. And I would bet whoever is on his team does not have a lot of experience playing with me, or like TH hasn't played with me in a long time.

I'm playing by gut this time folks. I tend to let myself be talked out of stuff, but I'm not doing it this time.

I'm still not sure about Marmot. I'll read him at some point. Right now, I'm coming for nova.

But everything he said about you wasn't wrong. His interpretation of it very well could be, but you did in fact encourage people to lynch you in another game. There was some truth to what he said.

He also was pursuing you well before the Luna flip, so I don't get that reasoning.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 12:19 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 12:17 pm nah dude let's pretend I'm bussing you first

I don’t get lynched but even if I did, I imagine you wouldn’t go after Speed next so that’s a no go.

This is a thing bad Jack says.

Strike 2.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:33 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 10:34 pm The more shitposting I see with consecutive mislynches and strong town voices, the more frustrated I become with this game.

I really don’t want to be here when I’m frustrated, but I feel alone here. At least Kyle is making some headway. Thanks Kyle

Hey I'm also upset. I walked away from this thread with 30 minutes in the day phase, and Lunalee had 1 vote. Had I been around, I would have defended her lynch. Like seriously, the Oracle had expressed trust in her twice!

Why are you assigning special prominence to the Oracle's opinions though?