The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:44 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:31 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:29 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:14 am How could you clear wisp after he claimed Jack Torrance A LITERAL BAD GUY

C’mon guys

I tiptoed around that like hell.

You had me D1. I *think* I would’ve gotten to you d2 when you started doing your tell, but easy to say with hindsight! You definitely had me going D1

What's my tell?

You can inform me because



to Mafia.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:51 pm I voted Jack burpee because

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:05 am General questions for everyone:

Do you believe there is another hostile independent player?

If there is another hostile independent player, who do you think it is?

How do you propose we go about hunting for such a player?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:05 am My conference talk is finished. Tonight I will review all two-way interactions in this group, with notes:

Colin
Tony
Epignosis
sabie
Kitsu

If you think I should feature Long Con, nutella, Spacedaisy, and/or Wisp then please say so.

General note: I really want to win this game. More than even most of my civilian games. If you’re allergic to appeals like this, please calm down and let me explain why:

1.) Civilians have not been winning here very much lately, and it doesn’t reflect the skills and talents of the players on this site. I know we’re better, but we have got to prove it.

2.) Nanook, Hally, and Alison played their asses off. The are all now powerless to impact the game, and they have to watch from the sideline while we do whatever it is we do. So let’s give them what they deserve. If Funnygurl was among us too, then say the same for her.

3.) I want this to be the beginning of a paradigm shift on The Syndicate, where towns will no longer settle for playing as a conglomeration of independents and instead play as a cohesive hunting machine. We’ve been there before. We have strayed. Reclaim the glory for all of us, old regulars and newcomers alike.

Let’s please leave it all on the field. This is still there for the taking. Thank you for tolerating my incessant head coach shtick. I’m doing it because I know I’m not the only one.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:08 am

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:43 pm Epignosis is good enough to fool me but I really struggle to see him being scum here.

This is concerning from a "vote for Not Epi" standpoint rather than a "vote for Alison" standpoint. I don't know how it's possible to have this perspective about Epignosis.

"good enough to fool me"

Does that reflect how we'd be describing Epignosis post-game if he "fools us" with his current performance? Just too good to catch? Eh

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:39 pm I'm inclined to follow Alison with regard to Kitsu. There may have been some manner of information underlying that read.

Wisp wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:50 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:48 pm

Wisp wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:40 pm I mean if Epi is good, you defend a good person and you still kill another good person in town!Alison worlds?
If he is bad, you are saving your partner, because bussing is garbage?

Defending a good person in and of itself doesn’t help me accomplish my wincon if I’m scum. Saving my partner does in a vacuum, but the circumstances of this game and this phase all point to Epi and I being big targets if Alison is good so I don’t think that’d be a very smart course of action to take. I don’t think I ever said bussing is “garbage”, just that I prefer not to do it (and it can be rude to whomever gets bussed if you don’t get their consent).

lmao you act like its the easiest thing in the world to give decent reasons as to why someone is a wolf if you know they are town, that's what you are overlooking, it's not against your win-con, you can't just call everyone wolfy

Wisp wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:40 pm I mean if Epi is good, you defend a good person and you still kill another good person in town!Alison worlds?
If he is bad, you are saving your partner, because bussing is garbage?

Wisp wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:24 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:01 pm If I’m bad, why defend Epi? If he’s good I gain nothing. If he’s bad then I’m defending a teammate but, again, to what end?

this means literally nothing lol...

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:43 pm Actual last post before I go to bed: Colin is scummier than Epi right now. Every one of his posts in this EoD, from the attempts to divert onto TSP, to the awful tinfoil, to this defense of Epi, are bad. Get rid of him tomorrow and investigate Epi tonight.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:29 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:18 pm at this stage in the game I am not going to believe any late miller claims. anyone who hasn't claimed miller yet will be assumed to not be a miller and any red checks on them by SD will be treated as legitimate

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:59 am PoE, ordered from most to least preferred exes

Colin > epi > TSP > nutella

Just realized that we should probably focus investigates on the nonmiller slots so SD and Wisp can both be on them. I can't remember if Epi claimed miller - he would be a good investigation target if not.

I am not a miller. I can be checked, as you've noted. Why are you voting for me?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:00 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:56 pm Do you know off the top of your head where you’ve seen that?

It isn't all that atypical for Epignosis to play like a player who is caught when he is caught. He understands well that even getting chopped doesn't lose him the game if he has handled his business appropriately. I believe it was Assassin's Creed when he promptly stopped doing anything and only at a certain point outed himself for a laugh. I believe he had mechanical evidence against him there, so it probably promoted a more blatant example of this behavior.

I'm never giving someone a pass stuff like this. I'm just not doing it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:55 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:49 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:44 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:43 pm Epignosis is good enough to fool me but I really struggle to see him being scum here.

I do not understand this perspective. Of all of the players in this game, none of them are easier for me to see as a mafioso than Epignosis. He is doing nothing while he's being served up on a platter.

And you think that indicates he’s scum?

I've seen it before. I will definitely not say it indicates that he's a civilian.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:44 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:43 pm Epignosis is good enough to fool me but I really struggle to see him being scum here.

I do not understand this perspective. Of all of the players in this game, none of them are easier for me to see as a mafioso than Epignosis. He is doing nothing while he's being served up on a platter.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:26 pm Like I can sort of get where Alison is coming from. Not sure on Colin.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:17 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:13 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:06 pm Do not hot potato to Tony. Force the mafia to choose between Epi and me. If Epi is a wolf member, they are put in a very awkward spot where they have to either bus in a very close tie, or put the spotlight on themselves by voting me. It places them in a very difficult situation and they can wriggle free of that by voting Tony if the vote veers in that direction.

Yeah but what if Epi is town and Tony isn’t

Could be. I'm fairly confident Epi is scum, but not 100%. But I think Epi has high enough scum equity that I'm not going to let go of a chance to possibly make his teammates reveal themselves by associatives. For an execute on Tony to be more correct than executing between me and Epi, Epi has to be town and Tony has to not be town. If either of those things are untrue, it is better to execute between Epi and me. (If Tony is town, executing him leaves us back at square one with the me/Epi situation unresolved.) So since the probability that all of those things are true is less than probability that not all of those things are true, it is correct to execute between me and Epi.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:24 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:13 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:06 pm Do not hot potato to Tony. Force the mafia to choose between Epi and me. If Epi is a wolf member, they are put in a very awkward spot where they have to either bus in a very close tie, or put the spotlight on themselves by voting me. It places them in a very difficult situation and they can wriggle free of that by voting Tony if the vote veers in that direction.

Yeah but what if Epi is town and Tony isn’t

let's think through this mindset being offered here.
Epi is town.
Alison is town.
Colin is town.
The scum team is... ???

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:11 pmI am comfortable saying that nothing I have seen from TSP, Colin or Epi has made me change my mind about putting them in POE. [...] They have all done things I find highly objectionable, compared to everyone in the towncore, who either have done nothing but things I find townie, or are mechanically cleared.

I have no problems shifting members of the POE to towncore if I think they have done something that looks townie. But they haven't here. Certainly not to the extent that I'd bloat out the towncore until it has to contain a mafioso.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:06 pm Do not hot potato to Tony. Force the mafia to choose between Epi and me. If Epi is a wolf member, they are put in a very awkward spot where they have to either bus in a very close tie, or put the spotlight on themselves by voting me. It places them in a very difficult situation and they can wriggle free of that by voting Tony if the vote veers in that direction.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:56 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:51 pm I kiiiiiiiiinda want to hot potato to Tony ... any takers?

you will not succeed and I will be annoyed. don't do it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:53 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:51 pm I kiiiiiiiiinda want to hot potato to Tony ... any takers?

Why?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:31 pm Either way I think it's incorrect to vote outside of me and Epi today. In fact I would find it actively suspicious not to.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:51 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:31 am Note that we need to remain in a state of high urgency at all times. Jack is a host from the HC Realms tree, and that means we cannot trust conventional assumptions about how alignments may be distributed. When I see 15 players, I tend to assume 12 vs. 3 is the most standard. With Jack though, I will not count out 11 vs. 4 or even 10 vs. 5 (with potential independent involvement too). It depends upon the arrangements of the roles he has decided to feature.

The point is that we cannot fart around in a Jack game. Play hard at all times or suffer the consequences.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:50 pm Really I think you're way more focused on coordination and POE than actually making a list of the people on the scum team. I understand this is your playstyle which is why I'm not scumreading you for it, and in theory it comes to the same conclusion as straight scumreading people, but it only really bears fruit (ie. identifies the scum team) very late in the game by definition because it involves a slow process of elimination. So obviously as early as N1 I can't say that you've actually tried very hard to pin down the mafia.

Wisp wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:31 pm tied wagons, how exciting
@ColinIsCool
why are u shading Alison, while sitting on Tony?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:12 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:57 pm If you have a reason to clear Kitsu then you need to go ahead and claim it. But I don’t think you do because you keep saying we can get to her after the POE is exhausted, and if she was definitively cleared, you would never entertain the idea.

The reason I have to clear Kitsu is public - I think her claim was a genuine townslip and her play has been townie to me.

Also everyone not in my POE is cleared. If the POE is exhausted and the game hasn't ended that means someone, somehow, has a fake clear on them. Under those circumstances, I would re-evaluate my read on Kitsu. Not before then.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:51 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:49 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:24 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:31 am Like, what good is the “consensus POE” (if there is one) if I’m in it? Because I know that’s a dead end. I don’t need you to tell me who to look at it if I’m supposed to be one of those people.

Reminder: I am in the consensus POE. I will try to get other people within that POE executed first because I know I am town, but it doesn't stop me from believing in it. I am happy to be sorted within the context of that POE, either by investigation or by execution, because I believe that this gives information to the town that will help it win. Town's biggest advantage this game is the hefty list of confirmed townies that it has. This list will only shorten as the days go by and scum make their kills. Therefore it is important to rapidly sort out the alignments of those not within the confirmed town pool, balancing speed with surety, in order to root out the mafia.

I just don’t buy that you as a civilian have a total unwillingness to reshape your POE to include or exclude non-cleared players when we haven’t even caught a single scum yet. This post does nothing to explain or address anything.

Everyone who isn't in my POE is cleared. That is why I am rigid about it.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:24 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:31 am Like, what good is the “consensus POE” (if there is one) if I’m in it? Because I know that’s a dead end. I don’t need you to tell me who to look at it if I’m supposed to be one of those people.

Reminder: I am in the consensus POE. I will try to get other people within that POE executed first because I know I am town, but it doesn't stop me from believing in it. I am happy to be sorted within the context of that POE, either by investigation or by execution, because I believe that this gives information to the town that will help it win. Town's biggest advantage this game is the hefty list of confirmed townies that it has. This list will only shorten as the days go by and scum make their kills. Therefore it is important to rapidly sort out the alignments of those not within the confirmed town pool, balancing speed with surety, in order to root out the mafia.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:48 am

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:29 am All of Alison’s insistence that we just run through the same couple people and worry about the same couple people for basically the rest of the game feels strongly anti-town to me. You don’t win games by deciding who the scum is D2 and resting on those laurels. And as someone in the POE who is town, and who has some doubts on other people in the POE being scum, I’m telling you it’s a good idea to keep other suspects in mind.

You do that after you eliminate the POE and sort them. If you bring up some tinfoil theory about a deepwolf, exe them, they flip town, then the POE is still uncleared and you've progressed nowhere. If you confirm the POE to be town (which we have room to do), then you can approach hunting for the deepwolf in a more structured manner.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:54 am Colin could theoretically block the redirecting role, allow both alignment checkers through, and potentially expose that player when the results are successful. Or stop a kill.

@ColinIsCool please use your role my dude. You know now who to definitely avoid targeting.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:40 am

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:39 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:36 am

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:29 amI’m telling you it’s a good idea to keep other suspects in mind.

Valid concern, and I appreciate you fighting for it. Whether the mafia lie in the "generic" POE group we've been rehashing for days or more on the fringe (a la Kitsu), I think the game is okay. The worrisome scenarios come if someone being "confirmed" is a mafioso, or someone just outside the suspect group like sabie. Do you have any such concerns?

Not really right now. Will have to see the game get whittled down a little before I start to majorly rethink some people I’ve sorted in my head.

Your vote is on Tony. Does this still reflect your current feelings? I'd call him a "generic POE" name.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:36 am

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:29 amI’m telling you it’s a good idea to keep other suspects in mind.

Valid concern, and I appreciate you fighting for it. Whether the mafia lie in the "generic" POE group we've been rehashing for days or more on the fringe (a la Kitsu), I think the game is okay. The worrisome scenarios come if someone being "confirmed" is a mafioso, or someone just outside the suspect group like sabie. Do you have any such concerns?