Jack Attack Mafia (Day 5)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epignosis is good enough to fool me but I really struggle to see him being scum here.

This is concerning from a "vote for Not Epi" standpoint rather than a "vote for Alison" standpoint. I don't know how it's possible to have this perspective about Epignosis.

"good enough to fool me"

Does that reflect how we'd be describing Epignosis post-game if he "fools us" with his current performance? Just too good to catch? Eh

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My conference talk is finished. Tonight I will review all two-way interactions in this group, with notes:

Colin
Tony
Epignosis
sabie
Kitsu

If you think I should feature Long Con, nutella, Spacedaisy, and/or Wisp then please say so.

General note: I really want to win this game. More than even most of my civilian games. If you’re allergic to appeals like this, please calm down and let me explain why:

1.) Civilians have not been winning here very much lately, and it doesn’t reflect the skills and talents of the players on this site. I know we’re better, but we have got to prove it.

2.) Nanook, Hally, and Alison played their asses off. The are all now powerless to impact the game, and they have to watch from the sideline while we do whatever it is we do. So let’s give them what they deserve. If Funnygurl was among us too, then say the same for her.

3.) I want this to be the beginning of a paradigm shift on The Syndicate, where towns will no longer settle for playing as a conglomeration of independents and instead play as a cohesive hunting machine. We’ve been there before. We have strayed. Reclaim the glory for all of us, old regulars and newcomers alike.

Let’s please leave it all on the field. This is still there for the taking. Thank you for tolerating my incessant head coach shtick. I’m doing it because I know I’m not the only one.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions needing Day 3 updates...

Colin and Tony - inconclusive

Colin and Epignosis - compatible

Colin and Kitsu - not compatible

Tony and Epignosis - compatible

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Tony and Colin Night 2 onward

From Colin

Spoiler: show

So if I do get lynched pay close attention to the way Tony is gunning after me

I'll tell you that I'm going to come to the conclusion that Colin has high scum equity and fits in all the most common teams. I've pointed to posts that align him with Alison, I think he's potentially aligned with you. He's less aligned with Epi, though that's more the case with the spot that Nutella currently occupies.

Does a scum Tony who knows I’m not his teammate gun after me so hard knowing it’s a folly? Only way it seems to make sense to me is if he’s in panic mode and just needs to keep stringing phases together. Maybe that’s where the scumteam is at, maybe not, but remember this whole thing if I get lynched and he outlives me.

I don't know what the message of this post is meant to be beyond "pay attention to Tony when I die". There isn't really a stance provided. A mafia read could be implied if I reach, but Colin phrased this as a question so that's only barely true if at all.

It's time to dump your stock in killing me and buy buy buy in killing Tony!

This is decidedly clearer, though I couldn't tell you where the confidence came from.

My recollection of Tony in Fallout (which, btw, the link goes to sabie's ISO but nbd) while playing was that he was town; he seemed like one of the most helpful, dedicated-to-solving voices in the thread to me, before I died. Obviously that wasn't the case. His play here feels noticeably looser, less forthcoming with ideas, but not all that different. I think I said he didn't match the meta from Fallout before, but I see similarities now.

Changing a meta read mid-game for the same general content (Tony's approach definitely hasn't changed) is a bit goofy.

I won’t be rereading Tony’s ISO because I did that yesterday; I go back and forth on him but can’t find it in me to feel good enough to remove him from POE.

I just read KitsuShel’s and I invite everybody else to check it out, because I seriously am not seeing the obvious-town everybody else is. In 2 pages of posts there are only a few (possibly less than 5, even) that offer reads. Most of it is questions about set-up, terminology, theories of the game that aren’t actual expressions of suspicions, and things that aren’t reads. She is the one person in the game that I have seriously no idea what they believe, and that leaves me pinged as all-get-out.

Now it's a waffle on Tony, and just keeping him in the POE pile without much qualification. Instead, Kitsu gets the real negative press based on some pretty generic "thin content" observations. Concerning.

In reviewing sabie’s posts there’s a clear continuity of thought (constant suspicion of me lol), progression in her thinking (adding Allison as my teammate) and a general willingness to solve that I don’t think I would see from her as scum. Maybe I’m projecting but her posts feel unpretentious as if she’s not trying too hard to present herself as town. Better than KitsuShel and possibly Tony

Kinda hate this. Colin reviewed sabie and decided she looked good -- clearly better than Kitsu and possibly better than Tony. Given the indisputably positive language he used to discuss sabie and the suspicion he had been voicing about Tony, that is an adverb that really sticks out. "Possibly"? That oughta be a "definitely". This bugs me in the same way the classic "maybe" would in a player salad.

So you can’t keep throwing out there that I haven’t “offered any insight”, this my list/ranking atm. Likely town, from top to bottom.

Hally
JJJ
Wisp
Spacedaisy
Sabie
Nutella
Epi
ColinIsCool
Alison
Long Con
TonyStarkPrime

What is it about Tony that makes him your biggest suspect right now?

You tell me, guy. You just told me to buy stocks in killing him.

[VOTE: Tony] aubergine

for now. not 100% satisfied with Kitsu’s answers but eh

This vote sat in place for a while. I wish I could recall the state of the poll when he placed it, but I cannot.

I kiiiiiiiiinda want to hot potato to Tony ... any takers?

I kiiiiiiiiinda want to hot potato to Tony ... any takers?

you will not succeed and I will be annoyed. don't do it.

What are the reasons for why you scumread me?

Do not hot potato to Tony. Force the mafia to choose between Epi and me. If Epi is a wolf member, they are put in a very awkward spot where they have to either bus in a very close tie, or put the spotlight on themselves by voting me. It places them in a very difficult situation and they can wriggle free of that by voting Tony if the vote veers in that direction.

Yeah but what if Epi is town and Tony isn’t

This stuff may be telling. When the two wagons on Alison and Epignosis had developed, Colin farted around alone on Tony for a while. Given that Tony was under no actual threat here, it'd be easy to distance here.

Do not hot potato to Tony. Force the mafia to choose between Epi and me. If Epi is a wolf member, they are put in a very awkward spot where they have to either bus in a very close tie, or put the spotlight on themselves by voting me. It places them in a very difficult situation and they can wriggle free of that by voting Tony if the vote veers in that direction.

Yeah but what if Epi is town and Tony isn’t

let's think through this mindset being offered here.
Epi is town.
Alison is town.
Colin is town.
The scum team is... ???

Yeah good point. Tony/Kitsu/Jay? Do we know it’s 3?

Like I can sort of get where Alison is coming from. Not sure on Colin.

Is that your answer to my unanswered question?

These exchanges are meaningless to me.

From Tony

Spoiler: show

That probably should unalign me from Colin, and I really want Jay to try to create a compelling case I'm mafia from there

No.

lol tell? nah.
I expressed numerous times the idea that Pawn was unlikely to be the SK and that thus it would be better to chop Colin. It doesn't make me town but it does reduce the likelihood I was scum with Colin. As to the parenthetical, this is where our good friend Bayes comes into play. But that's sorta irrelevant I guess.

Again this is only relevant if the poll made a Colin chop a reasonable possibility. To my memory, Pawn ended up with a 7-vote wagon and the next highest was a tie at 2. So fart.

like what I'm bussing Colin? but then why do I attack Alison for connecting Colin and Pawn?

Dunno what this question is.

I'll tell you that I'm going to come to the conclusion that Colin has high scum equity and fits in all the most common teams. I've pointed to posts that align him with Alison, I think he's potentially aligned with you. He's less aligned with Epi, though that's more the case with the spot that Nutella currently occupies.

Tony was pleased to associate Colin with most non-confirmed players.

I'm sort of feeling long con / colin / Alison but we actually all could do with some increased focus on Long Con.

So the rules say there are fake claims given to anti-town players. How do we imagine Wisp's role interacts with those?

we dont know, thats what we’re talking about now

I have to imagine there's a good chance that Wisp sees the fake-claim. Otherwise, it's a pretty damn powerful role.

your attempt to shift LC out of the lock town pool has been denied

well there goes Alison/LC/Colin

Meh

Tbh 3 scum feels like a lot though. Have we definitively said FG isn’t one? Because NANOOK’s death seems like a logical scum-NK to me

This is low key too innocent to be a wolf

What

What world have we converged on?

epi/alison with possibly kitsu as third

@TonyStarkPrime what do you think of this world?

I was there first. Kitsu is probably a less likely third than Colin. Colin’s displaying some really townie bonafides today though.

I don't know what the town bonafides refer to. Okay.

I'd buy that Colin is trying to counterwagon Alison. Epi clearly doesn't count, I don't count cause I'm voting for Epi, Sabie is probably town and thus probably isn't doing it maliciously.

I kiiiiiiiiinda want to hot potato to Tony ... any takers?

you will not succeed and I will be annoyed. don't do it.

Like I can sort of get where Alison is coming from. Not sure on Colin.

(someone's gonna be like TSP slipped too much talking about himself as a wolf and if it's alison or colin I'm going to vote for them)

As has happened too often in this game with Tony, I actually don't know what he is talking about. The Colin mention in the last one there feels forced.

Vig shoots Colin.

If there even is one

I don't know what to do with Tony's posts. He's all over the place at all times and I cannot follow it. I can't dissociate these two from each other comfortably. Much of their mutual aggression has come under circumstances where it is effectively meaningless (i.e. Pawn clearly on the chopping block or Alison/Epi clearly on the chopping block).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Colin and Epi Night 2 onward

From Colin

Spoiler: show

Pool of suspects for whom there is no objective or powerful subjective civilian evidence:

ColinIsCool
TonyStarkPrime
KitsuShel
sabie12
Epignosis
Alison
JaggedJimmyJay

Which three (or two if you're listed) are the worst chops on this list? That leaves a group of four, which I think would be relatively healthy.

I remove myself because I know my role.

I remove Jay because hunting + meta makes me believe he’s town.

I remove Alison because of tone and hunting.

That leaves TSP, KitsuShel, sabie12 and Epignosis.

They aren’t if we presume scum-Kitsu’s first instinct to go to BTSC and ask there instead, but I see no reason to think as much.

At best it’s NAI for me. I can’t say it makes her any more likely to be scum.

Who among your suspects do you think would make the best chop for today?

I plan on combing through posts more in order to answer that question. Just going with my gut, right now, probably Epignosis because he’s in so many POEs, but I plan on finding a better reason for whomever I vote for.

Epignosis gets default POE pool inclusion and little else. Fine.

I’m still going to poke through Epi’s posts but that will probably have to wait until tomorrow.

I’m telling you it’s a good idea to keep other suspects in mind.

Valid concern, and I appreciate you fighting for it. Whether the mafia lie in the "generic" POE group we've been rehashing for days or more on the fringe (a la Kitsu), I think the game is okay. The worrisome scenarios come if someone being "confirmed" is a mafioso, or someone just outside the suspect group like sabie. Do you have any such concerns?

Not really right now. Will have to see the game get whittled down a little before I start to majorly rethink some people I’ve sorted in my head.

Your vote is on Tony. Does this still reflect your current feelings? I'd call him a "generic POE" name.

He remains a suspect but I can’t say I feel very sure of his status. I still have to check out Epi’s posts so if I switch it’s probably either him, Kitsu (also in my POE) and maybe Alison because I feel like I have to check that out now.

Colin really dragged ass on digging into Epi's posts, and he seemed quite conscious of that. The green thing is close to classic salad. X, Y, and maybe Z.

tied wagons, how exciting
@ColinIsCool
why are u shading Alison, while sitting on Tony?

I haven’t finished reading through Alison or Epi’s posts. Once I do, I’ll solidify a vote.

I don’t see any reason to vote for Epi instead of other people in the POE. I see a town mindset and largely find myself empathizing with his viewpoint.

My decision’s not final but I feel a hell of a lot better about Epi than I expected to, and they’re tied, so [VOTE: Alison] aubergine

I wish I knew why this was the emerging read. I don't.

Having just read Epi’s posts, I don’t know if I see a world where he and Alison are teammates. His problems with her poking at him feels consistent and beyond the expected level of distancing.

(That said, if there ever were a game for Epi to bus, it would be the one where everyone makes a scene about how he doesn’t bus.)

Breaking Epignosis from the Alison connection gives further freedom to vote for her and not for him.

Do not hot potato to Tony. Force the mafia to choose between Epi and me. If Epi is a wolf member, they are put in a very awkward spot where they have to either bus in a very close tie, or put the spotlight on themselves by voting me. It places them in a very difficult situation and they can wriggle free of that by voting Tony if the vote veers in that direction.

Yeah but what if Epi is town and Tony isn’t

Yeah but what if Epi is mafia and Tony isn't

Epignosis is good enough to fool me but I really struggle to see him being scum here.

This looks extremely fake.

If Epi is scum, then what of this post:

at this stage in the game I am not going to believe any late miller claims. anyone who hasn't claimed miller yet will be assumed to not be a miller and any red checks on them by SD will be treated as legitimate

PoE, ordered from most to least preferred exes

Colin > epi > TSP > nutella

Just realized that we should probably focus investigates on the nonmiller slots so SD and Wisp can both be on them. I can't remember if Epi claimed miller - he would be a good investigation target if not.

I am not a miller. I can be checked, as you've noted. Why are you voting for me?

Godfather? Crossing your fingers that the checker gets blocked? I am genuinely asking for theories, not making a specific argument.

Even if Epignosis gets straight up red checked, he lived another day. That's gold for his team. This rationale isn't ideal.

I read Epi in Assassins Creed and obviously without context it’s hard to make too many judgments, but he seemed a lot more adamant about self-defense there than he has been here. I think I did glean a moment where he kind of stopped, but until that point he fought the vote vigorously.

If I’m bad, why defend Epi? If he’s good I gain nothing. If he’s bad then I’m defending a teammate but, again, to what end?

this means literally nothing lol...

If I am bad, I am defending Epi with an ulterior motive to the rest of the thread.

If, in the above scenario, Epi is good, I don’t gain anything by defending him. He’s as deep in POEland as can be and keeping him alive does nothing for me. Worse, I’m probably TMIing all over the place to accomplish ... nothing.

If, in the above (above) scenario, Epi is bad, I defend him and we it soon spells to everybody (because in this scenario, Alison is good and I risk everything to destroy her) I’m bad as hell, Epi is bad as hell, whole thing falls apart.

It makes no sense. It’s a nonsense reason to be up-in-arms with me that has no logical explanation.

The "if Epi is good" point is a decent point. The "if Epi is bad" point is not a decent point. Colin already indicated earlier in the game that he defends his mafia teammates.

From Epignosis

Spoiler: show

The TSP commentary on Pawn / sprityo made no sense to me. I don't understand why TSP thinks I'm mafia or more specifically why I'm mafia with JJJ.

I still think Alison is full of shit. A "hard miller" trying to get the cops to check the same person is asinine.

I don't get why Colin isn't using his ability. You can stop a kill with a role block.

nutella looks civilian.

sabie isn't annoying.

Hally asked a question that I'll answer later if I have to.

Epignosis gave a clear read on Alison and nutella. He gave no read on sabie or Colin. Those are judgments that don't speak necessarily to alignment. This was Epi's only relevant mention of Colin in this time frame.

~~~

These two look compatible, and frankly I just want to say they're both mafia. We may learn more from night actions, but this one looks bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Colin and Kitsu are not both mafia. If Colin is a mafioso, his handling of Kitsu is a pretty transparent example of trying to shoehorn a trusted lower-poster back into the POE pool.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Colin and sabie

From Colin

Spoiler: show

Thanks everyone! On my way! Colin welcome to the game good luck catching up

Thanks sabie, best of luck today. I townread you, your progressions all feel genuine.

The first post already makes me want to say these aren't mafia teammates. If Colin is a mafioso, this is pure pocket. He is talking directly to her, and there is a sense of appealing to her specifically instead of just "talking about sabie".

People who feel within a town meta for me include Tony, sabie, Wilgy, Epi, and NANOOK but I feel less confident about these minus the ones I mentioned earlier (sabie, NANOOK).

Town meta sure okay

[VOTE: TONY] aubergine

got my eye on sabie too, feels a little passive in a discomfiting way (yes I know about the surgery but still)

Feels like Colin either forgot he'd given a town read or just wanted to get sabie back into the tightening POE pool.

Long Con - semi cleared
TonyStarkPrime - acting differently than I remember as scum (Fallout?)
DrWilgy - within town meta
Spacedaisy - forthright and unpretentious
Wisp - semi cleared
KitsuShel - miller slip
sabie12 - within town meta
Epignosis - within town meta
Alison - supertowning it D1
JaggedJimmyJay - supertowning it
Hally - semi cleared
sprityo/Pawn Lelouch - sprit didn’t give me bad vibes

Trustfall, whatever

I gotta say part of me keeps imagining sabie and Kitsu in scumchat looking at our grand unified POE and laughing evilly. I don’t have them in the green yet

Not teammates. Both sabie and Kitsu are Colin's clear "I wish people suspected them" names if he is mafia.

Tbh 3 scum feels like a lot though. Have we definitively said FG isn’t one? Because NANOOK’s death seems like a logical scum-NK to me

Based on how the post was worded it appeared ad though pawn was the one who killed nanook. Unless jack was super messing with us.

Ah. Well then.

such ponder

Pool of suspects for whom there is no objective or powerful subjective civilian evidence:

ColinIsCool
TonyStarkPrime
KitsuShel
sabie12
Epignosis
Alison
JaggedJimmyJay

Which three (or two if you're listed) are the worst chops on this list? That leaves a group of four, which I think would be relatively healthy.

I remove myself because I know my role.

I remove Jay because hunting + meta makes me believe he’s town.

I remove Alison because of tone and hunting.

That leaves TSP, KitsuShel, sabie12 and Epignosis.

Obligated

In reviewing sabie’s posts there’s a clear continuity of thought (constant suspicion of me lol), progression in her thinking (adding Allison as my teammate) and a general willingness to solve that I don’t think I would see from her as scum. Maybe I’m projecting but her posts feel unpretentious as if she’s not trying too hard to present herself as town. Better than KitsuShel and possibly Tony

Can't find a coherent case for her as easily as he could for Kitsu

From sabie

Spoiler: show

Throwing a placeholder vote on colin for now since I have not yet decided where I want to vote and still have 24 hours to do so. Maybe he'll come play with us. Does he know the game started? [VOTE: colin] aubergine


Daisy I'm interested to hear your reasons for the LC vote. I've always found him hard to read.

Don't really care about this vote

sprityo and wigly have still done nothing despite being here

idk why people are voting colin when he hasnt posted yet. its not really gonna do anything

I'm not keeping my vote there it's just as a placeholder til I make a decision unless colin comes in and ends up being super scummy. I was leaning towards FG but there's still another 24 hours to see what happens.

Not bothered

Fwiw my colin vote is not a placeholder I genuinely want to kill him

Ah yeah see not very motherly of you.


Shrug I'm not opposed to a wilgy or spirityo vote at this point but I want to see how things progress. If nothing changes I may move my vote to one of them.

Soft defense of Colin if I want to reach. I don't care.

It'd be neat and swell and stuff if some folks could give me a quick ranking (least-to-most suspicious/worthy of chopping) of the four players <20 posts:

KitsuShel
sprityo
DrWilgy
ColinIsCool

I kind of thought kitsushels miller claim was weird but other than that okay
Colin is no read
Drwilgy
Spirityo

No posts yet from Colin so sure

Thanks everyone! On my way! Colin welcome to the game good luck catching up

Not bothered

why is colin more likely a wolf than wilgy or pawn?

I think colin or pawn is more likely than wilgy only because I've seen wilgy do this before like not really post and then be town. I'll put my vote on pawn for now.

[VOTE: pawn] aubergine

Technically voted for the Not Colin in this [Colin and other player] pair of choices. Log it into evidence. I feel nothing.

Reasons to be town thing-

ColinIsCool uh he more recently has tried to get involved I guess

Long Con Recent events with the role card thing

TonyStarkPrime seems like his usual town meta

DrWilgy I've seen him get mislynched for inactivity before.

Spacedaisy when she is here she seems genuine in her reads and posting

Wisp the situation earlier with the role card thing seemed genuine

KitsuShel I don't know not much doesn't seem super sketchy I guess.

sabie12 my role pm

Epignosis when he is here he is his usual joking self I guess.

Alison seems to be putting in effort for reads and stuff.

JaggedJimmyJay trying to get town to work together

Hally seems genuine in her posting

sprityo/Pawn Lelouch could just be too busy to be super involved.

sabie had basically nothing for Colin in the Trustfall, and I think that's to her credit. She didn't even try to come up with something meaningful to support him.

I gotta say part of me keeps imagining sabie and Kitsu in scumchat looking at our grand unified POE and laughing evilly. I don’t have them in the green yet

Funny I was thinking the same thing about you and alison

This stems from Alison commending Colin for his willingness to defend his mafia teammates, so in context I am not bothered.

So I have basically agreed with the town core all along but as always I have a fear that someone is being incorrectly cleared somewhere

If I had subbed in before nanook had died, I absolutely would have suspected him lol and he can roll in his grave for me expressing any contrarianism to the established poe, but having subbed into one of the poe'd slots and now knowing it's town, I have no choice but to assume someone is probably going deep here

Like i guess wolves could just be colin/alison/tsp but idk

I never really felt the daisy TR originally, then the redirected check or whatever was meh

hally/wisp/lc as close to mech clear as possible in this bastardish setup

jay.... prob just town

sabie idk honestly

kitsu i agree with the reasoning to clear

epi.... could be mafia here? the implication that mafia knew pawn was 3p doesn't seem to mesh with how he treated pawn though?


i guess my poe is something like
tsp > alison > colin > sabie > epi > daisy

I agree with some of this in that I agree with the colin alison connection. Maybe tsp but I don't know. And I'm town anyone can feel free to check me and find out.
I'm not sure what to think with epi I think he just felt like he wanted to do his own thing rather than follow what everyone else was doing. I don't know if that makes him more or less towny.

Extended from the previous, not bothered

Tbh 3 scum feels like a lot though. Have we definitively said FG isn’t one? Because NANOOK’s death seems like a logical scum-NK to me

Based on how the post was worded it appeared ad though pawn was the one who killed nanook. Unless jack was super messing with us.

Softballing, could be better

as I believe colin is one od the most appealing exes next day phase

My ex would disagree with you there

I was going to say something about it but I figured her phone or device must be auto correcting axes to exes for some reason haha.

Banter is fine once in a while

@sabie12
what have your votes been throughout this game?

I voted colin in the first poll initially as a placeholder but I have had a scum lean on him. I felt like his interaction with alison could be teammates. It was reminiscent of how she was in last game where she was mafia.

I voted for pawn who I thought was mafia or 3p. I think the polls are posted on the first page so you can see who voted where.

She called her initial Colin vote a placeholder. She is not trying to earn credit for that vote.

I won’t be rereading Tony’s ISO because I did that yesterday; I go back and forth on him but can’t find it in me to feel good enough to remove him from POE.

I just read KitsuShel’s and I invite everybody else to check it out, because I seriously am not seeing the obvious-town everybody else is. In 2 pages of posts there are only a few (possibly less than 5, even) that offer reads. Most of it is questions about set-up, terminology, theories of the game that aren’t actual expressions of suspicions, and things that aren’t reads. She is the one person in the game that I have seriously no idea what they believe, and that leaves me pinged as all-get-out.

I don't see kitsushel as obvious town. I'm a bit more of a null on her I guess. I feel like she is not used to how we do things here and she's struggling to figure that all out. I believe part of the reason people are town reading her is that they think she is being genuine and that she may be less unsure about everything if she had teammates to help her figure it out.

Kinda looks like sabie is talking to someone she isn't teamed with. If the two schemed in mafia chat to go after Kitsu, I doubt they bother with this public exchange. sabie isn't really supporting the narrative against Kitsu with much energy here anyway.

In reviewing sabie’s posts there’s a clear continuity of thought (constant suspicion of me lol), progression in her thinking (adding Allison as my teammate) and a general willingness to solve that I don’t think I would see from her as scum. Maybe I’m projecting but her posts feel unpretentious as if she’s not trying too hard to present herself as town. Better than KitsuShel and possibly Tony

Well my whole thought process was I believed you and alison to be teammates based on your interactions and looking back at how alison was with teammates in a previous game. You also both have claimed miller which now makes it difficult to town confirm. Though for some reason nutella doesn't like that arguement.
Sometimes I like to give things a chance to play out a little and gather more info before deciding for sure.

If I wasn't on my phone I would post that "change my mind" meme here.

Such great words you use to describe me. Passive, discomforting and unpretentious and wisp thinks I don't do much of anything. I guess that pretty much sums me up.

Again does not look like sabie is talking to a mafia teammate. She is explaining herself to someone about whom she is uncertain.

i could see the team being like exactly epi/alison/kitsu if kitsu is a wolf

I mean I thought alison and colin could be but hey either way I'm down with an alison vote.

im honestly still not feeling colin as a wolf

I think for me it was in connection with alison and their interaction that made me feel colin could be scum.

I'm debating whether I want to vote alison or epi. I was leaning alison but either seems like a decent choice for today.

I could complain about this being the second example of sabie naming two suspects [Colin and Non-Colin] and voting for Non-Colin. That's kinda wack though given the Day 3 poll -- Alison was a big wagon and there was no Colin wagon.

~~~

I have to really nitpick to call these two mafia teammates. I think Colin's posts are pretty suggestive that they are not both mafia, and some of sabie's reinforce that. Not compatible.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Tony and Epignosis Night 2 onward

From Tony

Spoiler: show

I'll tell you that I'm going to come to the conclusion that Colin has high scum equity and fits in all the most common teams. I've pointed to posts that align him with Alison, I think he's potentially aligned with you. He's less aligned with Epi, though that's more the case with the spot that Nutella currently occupies.

I don't know why Tony felt Colin and Epi didn't fit together, but okay

what if colin isn’t scum

i can’t say i feel that strongly that he is even though i see the points others are raising

they don’t particularly move me ig and he comes off pretty genuine to me

I ride Jay Epi Alison to the bank

ope

let's talk about your theory that the team is epi/alison/JJJ

why do you believe this is the mafia team

let's set aside the girl genius stuff and just talk about this for now then

Why did I say it then? Spice. But I think there are strong reasons to align you and Epi and decent reasons to align Epi and Jay. Consider how Jay didn’t put Epi into his POE until tonight, doing so now under no real push. You were comfortable leaving Epi just above POE and vice versa. I would bet that two members of those three are wolves, and I would not have bet that on pawn/Colin/wilgy

A trend emerges: Tony talks about Epignosis primarily in terms of associations, not on his own.

Hey, I know I'm dropping off today. Heart's not in it right now. Ping me with questions.

Whaddya think of Alison’s most recent posts?

I don't quite know. It feels like sort of textbook "grasping at straws" but calling out the Kitsu chop as being bad feels sort of genuine and I think the point about Epi bussing here feels genuine. I decidd that the latter is NAI -- scum, if they feel like they've distanced successfully, want the credit for it and that's Alison trying to claim that. I don't think it's substantially less likely to be Epi/Alison/X from her posts.

There are some mental gymnastics here from Tony to justify keeping the Alison/Epi theory alive.

I don't particularly see her argument throughout her posts but I don't think that's a scum tell. I'm currently voting for Epi but I've gone back and forth and could find myself swayed by the non-miller point and more elaborate cases.

Not a read

The suddenness of this attack on me really feels like an attempt to counterwagon Epi tbh

who's trying to counterwagon epi?

like I agree that it's probably incorrect not to chop one of Alison or Epi. I have no sense over who is more likely to be scum independently. My gut says Epi, but the mechanics point means that if Alison is town and Epi is scum we're sorta likely to find out

I'd buy that Colin is trying to counterwagon Alison. Epi clearly doesn't count, I don't count cause I'm voting for Epi, Sabie is probably town and thus probably isn't doing it maliciously.

Jay, did you do an interactive ISO between epi and Alison?

Probably flailing but as someone who's been in this position as town several times recently I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. Currently probably less likely a wolf than Epi.

What makes Epi more likely?

Tone, mostly. I think teams build slightly better as well.
A thought: wolves shooting at wisp makes it substantially less likely that LC is a wolf.

do Epi/Alison vote for each other to the death? Do they have another saving option?

do Epi/Alison vote for each other to the death? Do they have another saving option?

This "thunderdome" does not dissociate them in my view, especially as Epignosis just drifts through the day tossing token complaints at Alison every five hours.

This is a reason I'm voting Epi. Seems like he's doing no work to make Epi/Alison seem like not w/w. Would indicate that he's a wolf and if he dies wants to take Alison along for the ride. Alison is not taking that route.

Technically Tony landed on the right side of history in this sequence. He didn't fight especially hard, which he granted himself. Eh.

From Epignosis

Spoiler: show

The TSP commentary on Pawn / sprityo made no sense to me. I don't understand why TSP thinks I'm mafia or more specifically why I'm mafia with JJJ.

I still think Alison is full of shit. A "hard miller" trying to get the cops to check the same person is asinine.

I don't get why Colin isn't using his ability. You can stop a kill with a role block.

nutella looks civilian.

sabie isn't annoying.

Hally asked a question that I'll answer later if I have to.

Epi's language appears critical of Tony here, but there is no read given. Note he is similarly critical of Alison, but also with a clear stance (she is "full of shit"). Not great.

~~~

They can still be mafia teammates. This stuff feels like dead fish.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Tony and sabie

From Tony

Spoiler: show

I'm falling asleep I'm sure I'll wake up to about 300 more posts filled with jack puns, nanook calling people ho's and Miller claims. Such fun.

sounds right

if im being as generous as i can i can call these people town

epi
jay
wisp
space
nanook
tony
alison
sabie

this already feels like too many town reads for this stage in the game, but that’s par for the course for me. i promise i’ll reevaluate at some point

where does the town read on sabie come from? Had you brought it up before?

KITSUSHEL
SABIE12
EPIGNOSIS
ALISON

bad
bad
bad
good

So far we have obligatory "suspicion" of a lower-content player. It's a trend in this particular GTH block.

I kind of thought kitsushels miller claim was weird

Tell me more!

Not a lot more to it. I found it weird they didn't know they were a miller before others started talking about it and the way it was worded. Though I realize that might just be how they post and didn't realize what the term was before.

Worth asking:

Are y'all millers explicitly *millers*, or are you something like this:

"You are a civilian. If you are investigated by an alignment checker, you will appear to be aligned with the mafia."

I realize these things are functionally equivalent.

The latter ish, This makes Sabie town even though she’s presenting a bad read

While we’re on the not angleshooty thing I have a follow up addition to the town mindset thing from Jay — I assume wolves have a fake role with the miller ability. Sabie would know this and have access to that role. She wouldn’t make an argument like that knowing it’ll be shot down in a way that gives town credit to others.

These bits look like TMI that sabie is a civilian if Tony is mafia.

Unless... it’s exactly Hally/Sabie and I interrupted their scheme

meh

@sabie12 I don’t want you to get chopped. You misunderstood me.

I mean like you're giving the mafia ideas to get rid of me. Don't encourage that. Not cooool

/

k?

I think FG is scum someone tell me why

I don't know if this is a "help me justify my gut feeling" post or a legitimate "try to guess my reason" post, but if it's the latter my guess is that she didn't claim it until we wasted D1 on her.

Don't know how to feel about Hally's saying to shoot FG if there is a vig. If that is mafia trying to get vig to shoot town, it is openwolf in a way that doesn't feel very in line with Hally's personality. But I also have respect for Hally's scum range and have never seen her play as scum so I am not very confident in that read. The logic makes sense but I find it really difficult to ask a vig to shoot someone I think is town.

No I have a definite reason, I’m seeing if anyone sees it without prompting cause I might be able to get a soft clear on them if they do lol

It isn’t what you said tho

Do you think this because she claimed to be a miller and also to be unlynchable and that would mean she had multiple powers in one role?

noting this for some mechanical shenanies later on but I think this soft clears sabie

More

wait did sabie claim miller

idgi

sabie isn't a miller, sabie probably doesn't have access to a miller role card, sabie probably is town, along with all the other stuff

More

Note that Tony isn't talking about any of sabie's content on the level of its spirit, hunting, or contribution -- it's purely mechanical. Robot TMI.

I understand the current POE pool feeling too easy, or feeling default. Those aren't things I tend to concern myself with, because I view them as distant cousins of the gambler's fallacy. Still, I am open to hearing suspicions of/cases against the remainder of the game. If you accept the premise that today's claim shenanigans clear this group: Wisp, Hally, Long Con, and Spacedaisy, then you're left with the following names to pick at:

ColinIsCool
TonyStarkPrime
DrWilgy
KitsuShel
sabie12
Epignosis
Alison
JaggedJimmyJay
sprityo/Pawn Lelouch

None of these people are "cleared". So have at it. Tell me what your worries are. Tell them what your worries are. I direct this to anyone in general.

sabie has half a dozen things going for her. Kitsu ... can be a wolf? No the miller claim is a soft clear. Also probably doesn't kill Nanook but that's subtle. Wilgy is townish. Colin is maybe trending town. Epi trending wolf, seriously there's nothing towny there. Alison is a ???, different from the last game but could go either way. There are a few things that pushed me in a positive direction here now that I think about it. Jay is still on the wolfy side but I don't think can reasonably be a wolf without this poe still getting one hit and the SK. Jay should sort himself out thus. Pawn most likely wolf but colin most likely scum hit overall, changing my opinion. But maybe not Jay/Pawn. I dunno. Epi/Pawn/Kitsu? Or Epi/Pawn/Alison?


per "feeling too easy", I mean, if I walk into a game and the poe is Wilgy, Colin, and the replacement, my thought isn't "too easy" my thought is "something is wrong"

More

ColinIsCool - entrance was strong, offering different takes on game state
Long Con - mechanics
TonyStarkPrime - supatown
DrWilgy - hasn't been here in a while
Spacedaisy - mechanics??
Wisp - mechanics, offering off the wall takes, general demeanor
KitsuShel - trying hard, miller claim
sabie12 - half a dozen soft derps, in town meta
Epignosis - seems earnest, in town meta
Alison - seems earnest, putting in posts
JaggedJimmyJay - aggressively trying to solve the game
Hally - first miller claim, towny demeanor, good reaction to something
sprityo/Pawn Lelouch - PRobably not 3p because reasons, hard to read the spot as any less than null

More

Pool of suspects for whom there is no objective or powerful subjective civilian evidence:

ColinIsCool
TonyStarkPrime
KitsuShel
sabie12
Epignosis
Alison
JaggedJimmyJay

Which three (or two if you're listed) are the worst chops on this list? That leaves a group of four, which I think would be relatively healthy.

Not a controversial take, but Jay and Sabie. Jay and Kitsu are fighting hard for the second spot, and I’d probably put Daisy below Sabie.

Standard at this point; multiple people removed sabie when I posed that question.

Broader meta review for sabie12

SNIP

Conclusion

I won't pretend this is rock-solid shit, but we have to use the tools available to us. Meta is one of them. This at worst does nothing to hurt sabie's standing. I think it bolsters her standing a little bit.

I want to say something about this in post game someone remind me

okay

@TonyStarkPrime
Why Daisy below Sabie?

I really think Sabie is town and haven’t gotten any of those vibes from Daisy. Considering this further, Daisy claimed a N2 result on Nutella before you did, right? Hmm. Scum with a fake claim probably wouldn’t do that.

If Tony can't have sabie in his POE, maybe he can squeeze Spacedaisy in there instead. Remember, this exercise demands that I presume someone is a mafioso, and if Tony is, I think this bodes nicely for sabie.

I'd buy that Colin is trying to counterwagon Alison. Epi clearly doesn't count, I don't count cause I'm voting for Epi, Sabie is probably town and thus probably isn't doing it maliciously.

For all of Tony's tinfoiling, waffling, and etc, this is just about the only read he has seemed to believe in since he first presented it.

From sabie

Spoiler: show

Jack randomized poll name order, which I don't like

It further perpetuates our idea that we are all jack

seriously the post count in this game is obnoxious and we don't even have mp or anyone

I agree the post count is super crazy and hard to keep up with.

ready for this spice? jay/epi/alison, pawn is 3p

Not that I'm a hundred percent opposed to this idea but curious what your reasoning is. Or are you saying this to generate some devil's advocate kind of discussion as jay and alison have kind of dominated a lot of discussion so far in the game?

Reasons to be town thing-

ColinIsCool uh he more recently has tried to get involved I guess

Long Con Recent events with the role card thing

TonyStarkPrime seems like his usual town meta

DrWilgy I've seen him get mislynched for inactivity before.

Spacedaisy when she is here she seems genuine in her reads and posting

Wisp the situation earlier with the role card thing seemed genuine

KitsuShel I don't know not much doesn't seem super sketchy I guess.

sabie12 my role pm

Epignosis when he is here he is his usual joking self I guess.

Alison seems to be putting in effort for reads and stuff.

JaggedJimmyJay trying to get town to work together

Hally seems genuine in her posting

sprityo/Pawn Lelouch could just be too busy to be super involved.

I think tony is within his usual town meta, but I can also see how some of the things he has said like that thing about pawn could make him more sketchy.

So I have basically agreed with the town core all along but as always I have a fear that someone is being incorrectly cleared somewhere

If I had subbed in before nanook had died, I absolutely would have suspected him lol and he can roll in his grave for me expressing any contrarianism to the established poe, but having subbed into one of the poe'd slots and now knowing it's town, I have no choice but to assume someone is probably going deep here

Like i guess wolves could just be colin/alison/tsp but idk

I never really felt the daisy TR originally, then the redirected check or whatever was meh

hally/wisp/lc as close to mech clear as possible in this bastardish setup

jay.... prob just town

sabie idk honestly

kitsu i agree with the reasoning to clear

epi.... could be mafia here? the implication that mafia knew pawn was 3p doesn't seem to mesh with how he treated pawn though?


i guess my poe is something like
tsp > alison > colin > sabie > epi > daisy

I agree with some of this in that I agree with the colin alison connection. Maybe tsp but I don't know. And I'm town anyone can feel free to check me and find out.
I'm not sure what to think with epi I think he just felt like he wanted to do his own thing rather than follow what everyone else was doing. I don't know if that makes him more or less towny.

sabie has had nearly nothing to say about Tony all game long. That's less than ideal.

~~~

This one is a mixed bag. I think there are some indicators in Tony's posts that bode well for sabie. I cannot reinforce that with anything in her posts though. Gun to my head they're not mafia teammates.

[TonyStarkPrime]

My conference talk is finished. Tonight I will review all two-way interactions in this group, with notes:

Colin
Tony
Epignosis
sabie
Kitsu

If you think I should feature Long Con, nutella, Spacedaisy, and/or Wisp then please say so.

General note: I really want to win this game. More than even most of my civilian games. If you’re allergic to appeals like this, please calm down and let me explain why:

1.) Civilians have not been winning here very much lately, and it doesn’t reflect the skills and talents of the players on this site. I know we’re better, but we have got to prove it.

2.) Nanook, Hally, and Alison played their asses off. The are all now powerless to impact the game, and they have to watch from the sideline while we do whatever it is we do. So let’s give them what they deserve. If Funnygurl was among us too, then say the same for her.

3.) I want this to be the beginning of a paradigm shift on The Syndicate, where towns will no longer settle for playing as a conglomeration of independents and instead play as a cohesive hunting machine. We’ve been there before. We have strayed. Reclaim the glory for all of us, old regulars and newcomers alike.

Let’s please leave it all on the field. This is still there for the taking. Thank you for tolerating my incessant head coach shtick. I’m doing it because I know I’m not the only one.

I'd add SpaceDaisy to the list. I'll try to do some work there, but in general I'll say her play has slightly bugged me. The role claim checks out for now, but with a tightening POE it's important to check all the names.

Depending on the alignment of the poisoner, Long Con might be a decent check.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I will dedicate an /length of some album/ amount of time to look over day 3 interactions at some point today.

[sabie12]

Wasn't hally the one who suggested what if the last one to vote pawn would die with him? And then it happened to her with alison. Was she the last vote? Or I guess the delayed poison thing or day kill which I don't remember ever seeing.
And I was wrong about alison i thought her interactions were similar to a previous game and I thought her being resistant to challenges was sketchy. I guess I haven't figured out how to read her. Sorry alison

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Tony and Kitsu

From Tony

Spoiler: show

KitsuShel is a name I don't know.

Realms player, from before my day I think. I'm glad at least one made it into this game.

KITSUSHEL
SABIE12
EPIGNOSIS
ALISON

bad
bad
bad
good

Rather like sabie we have a default "bad" read on a lower post count player.

Kitsu knowing their role but not knowing it was called a miller is hugely town indicative

I don’t know if I can say why but it looks like people are already there

To be honest this was sort of my first thought but there are ways around this. But I do agree, substantially >rand town

lol Tony and Kitsu are not mafia teammates.

Yes Nanook that's right, but please don't clear her already come on, but yes okay

It'd be neat and swell and stuff if some folks could give me a quick ranking (least-to-most suspicious/worthy of chopping) of the four players <20 posts:

KitsuShel
sprityo
DrWilgy
ColinIsCool

Kitsu
———randish
Colin
Wilgy
Sprit

Obligatory after the preceding clearance.

Have any of you ever read 100 Bullets? I’m guessing not, because I’m 99% certain that the first boul was Jack Daws.

also something I'd bet good money jack would be familiar with.
this probably doesn't matter since town fake claims exist

Idle chatter

I've given up on syndi ways this is full hcrealms hunting

What’s that supposed to mean?

I'm not trying to solve the game via town behavior and POEs but rather by an in depth examination of night actions

I've given up on syndi ways this is full hcrealms hunting

What’s that supposed to mean?

I'm not trying to solve the game via town behavior and POEs but rather by an in depth examination of night actions

Ok then. I thought it was a derogatory comment at first, lol.

But that reasoning might be why I had a more difficult time day one. I’m not used to people jumping right out at you and making charts off your personality. My experiences tend to be more write-up/action-driven deductions.

This exchange doesn't look like mafia teammate stuff to me.

That's probably what this game needs right now

I understand the current POE pool feeling too easy, or feeling default. Those aren't things I tend to concern myself with, because I view them as distant cousins of the gambler's fallacy. Still, I am open to hearing suspicions of/cases against the remainder of the game. If you accept the premise that today's claim shenanigans clear this group: Wisp, Hally, Long Con, and Spacedaisy, then you're left with the following names to pick at:

ColinIsCool
TonyStarkPrime
DrWilgy
KitsuShel
sabie12
Epignosis
Alison
JaggedJimmyJay
sprityo/Pawn Lelouch

None of these people are "cleared". So have at it. Tell me what your worries are. Tell them what your worries are. I direct this to anyone in general.

sabie has half a dozen things going for her. Kitsu ... can be a wolf? No the miller claim is a soft clear. Also probably doesn't kill Nanook but that's subtle. Wilgy is townish. Colin is maybe trending town. Epi trending wolf, seriously there's nothing towny there. Alison is a ???, different from the last game but could go either way. There are a few things that pushed me in a positive direction here now that I think about it. Jay is still on the wolfy side but I don't think can reasonably be a wolf without this poe still getting one hit and the SK. Jay should sort himself out thus. Pawn most likely wolf but colin most likely scum hit overall, changing my opinion. But maybe not Jay/Pawn. I dunno. Epi/Pawn/Kitsu? Or Epi/Pawn/Alison?


per "feeling too easy", I mean, if I walk into a game and the poe is Wilgy, Colin, and the replacement, my thought isn't "too easy" my thought is "something is wrong"

"Nanook is dead now, so maybe I can get away with this"

like wilgy/kitsu/Colin? yeah makes perfect sense

ColinIsCool - entrance was strong, offering different takes on game state
Long Con - mechanics
TonyStarkPrime - supatown
DrWilgy - hasn't been here in a while
Spacedaisy - mechanics??
Wisp - mechanics, offering off the wall takes, general demeanor
KitsuShel - trying hard, miller claim
sabie12 - half a dozen soft derps, in town meta
Epignosis - seems earnest, in town meta
Alison - seems earnest, putting in posts
JaggedJimmyJay - aggressively trying to solve the game
Hally - first miller claim, towny demeanor, good reaction to something
sprityo/Pawn Lelouch - PRobably not 3p because reasons, hard to read the spot as any less than null

Kitsu have you taken a look at the night 0 write up?

That was roughly my impression Kitsu, or we're all Jack in a way.

Not really exploring that mafia possibility with much fervor, which I think reinforces the "dip your toes in the water" perspective.

Pool of suspects for whom there is no objective or powerful subjective civilian evidence:

ColinIsCool
TonyStarkPrime
KitsuShel
sabie12
Epignosis
Alison
JaggedJimmyJay

Which three (or two if you're listed) are the worst chops on this list? That leaves a group of four, which I think would be relatively healthy.

Not a controversial take, but Jay and Sabie. Jay and Kitsu are fighting hard for the second spot, and I’d probably put Daisy below Sabie.

Tony no longer gives a shit about Kitsu's miller thing. She has to "fight hard" to get out of his POE pool.

What world have we converged on?

epi/alison with possibly kitsu as third

@TonyStarkPrime what do you think of this world?

I was there first. Kitsu is probably a less likely third than Colin. Colin’s displaying some really townie bonafides today though.

Directionless waffle that only serves to give Kitsu credit and then cancel it by giving Colin credit too.

I’m not sure I’ll be any good at behavioral analysis no matter what, though.

That's what Jack and Tony and colonialbob said, but now look at 'em go.

JoH is the only one of them that I have any familiarity with. Hell, I didn’t even know Long Con had been on Realms until I just came across an old Hybridity game.

Was it H15? Such a brilliant game.

Cool beans. I'd like to see what others think of this exchange.

Kitsu town.

Hey, I know I'm dropping off today. Heart's not in it right now. Ping me with questions.

Whaddya think of Alison’s most recent posts?

I don't quite know. It feels like sort of textbook "grasping at straws" but calling out the Kitsu chop as being bad feels sort of genuine and I think the point about Epi bussing here feels genuine. I decidd that the latter is NAI -- scum, if they feel like they've distanced successfully, want the credit for it and that's Alison trying to claim that. I don't think it's substantially less likely to be Epi/Alison/X from her posts.

Do not hot potato to Tony. Force the mafia to choose between Epi and me. If Epi is a wolf member, they are put in a very awkward spot where they have to either bus in a very close tie, or put the spotlight on themselves by voting me. It places them in a very difficult situation and they can wriggle free of that by voting Tony if the vote veers in that direction.

Yeah but what if Epi is town and Tony isn’t

let's think through this mindset being offered here.
Epi is town.
Alison is town.
Colin is town.
The scum team is... ???

Yeah good point. Tony/Kitsu/Jay? Do we know it’s 3?

Tony Kitsu Jay is... low key brilliant actually. Like me setting up to elim Alison/epi after jay's poe goes south, and then either of us can elim the other for huge credit at any point. It's also completely unreasonable on many levels. It's pretty much the only possible team with epi/alison/colin as v/v/v.

He dipped his toes in the waters of Kitsu suspicion and it never quite caught on. He continues to only barely dabble. Technically one could suggest that's a bad thing, but I think there's a coheret narrative emerging here if Tony is a mafioso. He wants to suspect her but feels like he can't.

From Kitsu

Spoiler: show

Ok, so. I’ve finally gotten through the entire thread. And this basically boils down to y’all chatting/arguing with each other and metagaming the first day? Or am I misreading?

For the most part I think this has been about getting reads on each other. The game started somewhat spammy, but it has solidified into a well-oiled machine of Mafia work. Some of that is arguing and some of that metagaming, but not all of it. Do you have feelings about any players after catching up?

Gut feeling might be that sprityo, long con, and tony are scum. I feel really good about you and Nanook, but that might also be because you’ve been the most welcoming/informative for me.

I’d say some of the more prolific posters have been aggressive, which is generally a town trait I’ve found.

But, then again, I think I’ve established that you guys have a way more aggressive playstyle here compared to Realms. Which is not a bad thing, mind you. It’s kinda refreshing.

r u l e
o f
t h r e e



I don't actually care about that.

Have any of you ever read 100 Bullets? I’m guessing not, because I’m 99% certain that the first boul was Jack Daws.

also something I'd bet good money jack would be familiar with.
this probably doesn't matter since town fake claims exist

I know him from HCRealms, which is a HeroClix forum, which was mainly comic book based for the first decade. So yeah, I’d definitely say 100 Bullets has a hella strong chance of being in Jack’s wheelhouse.

I'll try to parse N0 some time, haven't quite figured it out yet.

I don’t quite get it all, tbh. I recognized Daw from being called a monster and the part about only saving one bullet. Assuming the person talking to him in N0 was Agent Graves. No clue on the blond man.

wait this is irrelevant, doesn't jack torrance basically only have a son?

Wiki says
“Danny Torrance (son)
Lucy Stone (née Reynolds; illegitimate daughter)”

Idk. I’ve never seen the movie. I get most of my horror knowledge from my husband and 12 year old daughter’s obsession with The Kill Count YouTube channel. (I love that dude, lol) I don’t recall seeing an episode on The Shining yet.

Flavor chatter. Makes sense from the HCRealms folks. They'd know best in this context.

This is one of those times where a thought process could have used some censorship

That’s one of my biggest problems, tbh. Maybe not so much here, but in game style in general. I get excited and want to share my thoughts, but should probably think them through/hold onto them for a bit and reread before posting.

Not bothered

So you can’t keep throwing out there that I haven’t “offered any insight”, this my list/ranking atm. Likely town, from top to bottom.

Hally
JJJ
Wisp
Spacedaisy
Sabie
Nutella
Epi
ColinIsCool
Alison
Long Con
TonyStarkPrime

Kitsu made a full ordered reads list and placed Tony dead last. She qualified next:

So you can’t keep throwing out there that I haven’t “offered any insight”, this my list/ranking atm. Likely town, from top to bottom.

Hally
JJJ
Wisp
Spacedaisy
Sabie
Nutella
Epi
ColinIsCool
Alison
Long Con
TonyStarkPrime

What is it about Tony that makes him your biggest suspect right now?

The bottom 4 are almost interchangeable for me right now, some of those because of their view of me. Like, if a few people can view me as town but you can’t, that strikes me that your possible end game may be different than theirs. I know I’m town, so I’m more trusting of those who show that they have good instincts.

It's a bit of a backtrack perhaps, but again I am not bothered. She specifically elected to put him at the bottom.

~~~

I don't think these two are mafia teammates. Nothing in Kitsu's posts particularly points that way. If Tony is a mafioso, then I think his posts almost clear her outright.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epignosis and sabie

From Epignosis

Spoiler: show

Old people are evil

I like old people.

Then you clearly aren’t jack [VOTE: SabieTheNotJack] aubergine

I work helping old people irl that's all

Thank you for your services, young lady.

I'm falling asleep I'm sure I'll wake up to about 300 more posts filled with jack puns, nanook calling people ho's and Miller claims. Such fun.

Lucky girl.

Chatter

Rao's marinara sauce tier -- I want this on my pasta at all times. Not eliminating.
Hally
Spacedaisy

Prego fresh mushroom sauce tier -- I may not necessarily be blown away, but it gets the job done. Not eliminating without being presented with a great reason.
Epignosis
Nanook
sabie12
TonyStarkPrime
Wisp

Plain spaghetti with no sauce tier -- This exists, and when you're starving with no alternatives it works I guess. Suspect pool.
ColinIsCool
KitsuShel

Mid's marinara sauce tier -- It's expensive and seems like it should be good, but something intangible doesn't work for me. I am conflicted. Suspect pool.
Alison

Ragu marinara sauce tier -- V8 tomato juice may have more substance. There are posts here, but none of them inspire any feeling in me. Suspect pool.
DrWilgy
Funnygurl555
Long Con
sprityo

yeah, this is a good sorting atm (or at least from where i am rn)

also lol at the pasta sauce

I haven't seen enough from sabie, Spacedaisy, or TonyStarkPrime to say any of them are good. I agree about Hally, Nanook and Wisp, and I would include JJJ in there.

I had never heard of Rao's before (I usually make my own sauces), but I was shopping today and spied it on the shelf. Seven damn dollars for a jar of marinara? I think not.

Nigh meaningless feature in a "haven't seen enough" pile

KITSUSHEL
SABIE12
EPIGNOSIS
ALISON

good
good
good
good

This.

Why do you want me to get chopped? Are you going to chop me and get me out of the way?
Sadface
I'm trying. I'm just not around as much when the millions of posts see happening. It takes me a little bit to get into games and even though you said catching up is pointless I like to anyway so I have an idea of what's going on.

This reaction gives me the impression that sabie is good.

This read exists.

I'm alive and all good!

Glad to hear it.

Wisp
Hally

Long Con
Spacedaisy

sabie12
KitsuShel
Epignosis

TonyStarkPrime
Alison

ColinIsCool
Pawn Lelouch
DrWilgy

This is pretty much where I'm at right now.

You'd put yourself in the middle?

I'm not sure what to think with epi I think he just felt like he wanted to do his own thing rather than follow what everyone else was doing. I don't know if that makes him more or less towny.

sabie smart

lol smh tbqh wtf fda vhs nbc tbf llc bbq

Haha this hurts my brain

Laugh out loud shaking my head to be quite honest what the fuck from dud's assholes video home system no ball, Colin to be fair loser long con barbecue

Epi's interactions with sabie are largely of a social character -- I think that'd be in BTSC and not the thread if they're teammates. That might seem like a stupid read; don't care.

Mr. Tufnel does.

Who's bad?

I'm nine pages behind and quitting mafia once this is over. So I don't rightly care.

That's not meant to be emotional manipulation. Please judge me as you see me. But I am done after this. I don't enjoy this anymore.

OT snip

OT snip

Not mafia teammates.

The TSP commentary on Pawn / sprityo made no sense to me. I don't understand why TSP thinks I'm mafia or more specifically why I'm mafia with JJJ.

I still think Alison is full of shit. A "hard miller" trying to get the cops to check the same person is asinine.

I don't get why Colin isn't using his ability. You can stop a kill with a role block.

nutella looks civilian.

sabie isn't annoying.

Hally asked a question that I'll answer later if I have to.

Werd

From sabie

Spoiler: show

Reasons to be town thing-

ColinIsCool uh he more recently has tried to get involved I guess

Long Con Recent events with the role card thing

TonyStarkPrime seems like his usual town meta

DrWilgy I've seen him get mislynched for inactivity before.

Spacedaisy when she is here she seems genuine in her reads and posting

Wisp the situation earlier with the role card thing seemed genuine

KitsuShel I don't know not much doesn't seem super sketchy I guess.

sabie12 my role pm

Epignosis when he is here he is his usual joking self I guess.

Alison seems to be putting in effort for reads and stuff.

JaggedJimmyJay trying to get town to work together

Hally seems genuine in her posting

sprityo/Pawn Lelouch could just be too busy to be super involved.

sabie didn't give Epi a glowing review in the Trustfall. He got generic credit as is the design of the exercise.

I’m the protagonist of Bioshock if that helps sort the character dynamic (relationship between character and role/alignment)

I am only upset with myself for not figuring out that you're Jack Ryan.

Now, would you kindly vote for a mafia member?

Oh yeah I was going to do the would you kindly thing but I forgot and you best me to it.

Not bothered

My concern with Epignosis more broadly: if we're suggesting Pawn is a civilian and Colin is a civilian, then given the state of the game and Epi's own reads: we're solved. The team must necessarily be: DrWilgy, Alison, TonyStarkPrime.

If the team is anything else, Epignosis has left himself no space to figure it out. There's nobody left. That could be a great idea if it's motivated by well-reasoned reads.

Epi's civilian view of Pawn doesn't strike me that way. "Colin has shown more effort" is a read I'd expect Epignosis to complain about if he saw someone else make it.

Did he say he would only suspect those three people and that's it? To me it seems like others have been doing that with being adamant about getting rid of people within a consensus POE. And if so is that alignment indicative for epi or just out of his norm?

Technically a defense of Epignosis. I guess.

JJJ asked me specifically about Pawn, but nobody up in here is engaging with me about the specifics of what I had to say. Instead all damn day it's been "Epi must be Pawn's teammate."

If it's Pawn's head you want, have Pawn's head.

But I'll vote where I goddamn please.

If it's any consolation I did not think that. I'm curious as to why you feel wilgy is the better choice over pawn.

Not bothered

i could see the team being like exactly epi/alison/kitsu if kitsu is a wolf

I mean I thought alison and colin could be but hey either way I'm down with an alison vote.

im honestly still not feeling colin as a wolf

I think for me it was in connection with alison and their interaction that made me feel colin could be scum.

I'm debating whether I want to vote alison or epi. I was leaning alison but either seems like a decent choice for today.

I tend to buy the spirit of this post -- sabie really is okay with chopping either Alison or Epignosis. So was I. I don't sense much urgent investment from her in getting one or the other, and I don't think it looks fake.

~~~

I doubt these two are mafia teammates. There's not a ton to clearly dissociate them, but absolutely none of it makes me think I need to worry.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epignosis and Kitsu

From Epignosis

Spoiler: show

KitsuShel is a name I don't know.

IS IT THOUGH?

I am here and trying to catch up. Holy crap, y’alls play style is hella different than what I’m used to.

What are you used to?

KITSUSHEL
SABIE12
EPIGNOSIS
ALISON

good
good
good
good

This.

Epi defaulted to "good" in the very early GTH reads; I don't believe Kitsu had made waves yet. Okay.

Comments coming soon.

I don't put much stock in this exercise either, but LC has one "bad" and it's Kitsushel? Over Colin and Wilgy?

If Epignosis is a mafioso this looks like TMI. He's giving Long Con shit for having Kitsu specifically as his only mafia read as though it's fundamentally ridiculous to do that. Good look to dissociate them.

I like KitshShel.

Agreed.

how experienced are you? just so i can gauge you better

Mafia was first introduced to Realms back in 2007. I played heavily back then. Had a break from the forum for a few years, and recently came back there to play during quarantining.

This is my first time on this site, so I’m adjusting to playstyle. Realms games tend to be heavily themed and roles are sometimes crazily complex. Players here seem to be a lot more aggressive (to me), especially for a Day one. =)

We have a variety of offerings. Pyre, for example, which I am currently hosting, is more what you are describing.

Anyway, welcome!

Do you have a favorite meal?

That is an odd question, but I’m sure you have a reason. Anything I don’t have to cook since that’s my job, lol. But I’d eat potato soup every day...

I am not a professional cook (my wife is a professional cake artist), but I do all the cooking here for the family (see the previous parenthetical). Are you at a restaurant?

Epi is accomodating and chatty. Not bothered.

It'd be neat and swell and stuff if some folks could give me a quick ranking (least-to-most suspicious/worthy of chopping) of the four players <20 posts:

KitsuShel
sprityo
DrWilgy
ColinIsCool

Swap the last two names and there's my list.

i don't think the kitsu is town case is believable, especially if they have experience playing the game. i'm all for derp clears and all, but i wouldn't derp clear her for that. js

I don't think anyone is "clearing" her. I see people saying she's not worth lynching Day 1 and I agree (not that I would advocate for that anyway).

Quick question. What does NAI stand for?

"Not alignment indicative," meaning that it's "meaningless" for determining whether a person is good or bad/

More of the same generally

Epignosis what is your take on Long Con?

Would lynch.

Long Con isn't trying to figure me out. That big ass post (that everybody keeps calling a "case") is a bunch of observations, some of which are wrong, and I showed as much. I would understand his issue with being treated in a polar opposite way as Kitsu, but LC wants to harp on "I play differently and you aren't respecting that people play differently," which is horse manure. Nanook, Wisp, and (to lesser extent) I all go about this thing differently than say JJJ or Hally or

waves hand in the air to provide another name.

LC looks caught to me.

He has plenty of votes though, and I have time after supper to consider the other side of the coin.

Kitsu being mentioned here is probably just incidental

It appears that Epignosis believes, like the majority of the thread, that Kitsu is a clear townread, and that he thinks that Colin and Wilgy are better options for suspicion.

The issue I see with this post is that I asked him right away, "Why should I think Colin and Wilgy are bad?" and he didn't respond to it or try for further dialogue. That increases my suspicion of him.

---

Second, I didn't just give the reason I badded KitsuShel, I directly asked Epignosis about his post in an attempt to engage him, and he didn't reply.

Responses to these points, Epignosis?

I see that I did miss LC's question.

Kitsu posted and said howdy and something along the lines of "Shit you people don't shut up." I'm fine with that. Kitsu is new.

DrWilgy had posted and there was nothing in there that I could find worthy of calling good.

Colin hadn't posted at all.

I still don't see where LC asked me the second thing. Does the above address the issue?

Epi dodged the question a bit here from LC via me. Instead of talking about LC's read on Kitsu, he just gave generic credit to Kitsu. TMI again if he is a mafioso.

From Kitsu

Spoiler: show

I am here and trying to catch up. Holy crap, y’alls play style is hella different than what I’m used to.

What are you used to?

I play on HCRealms, and it’s not quite as active as here, lol. It’s just a little different and taking some getting used to.

We have a variety of offerings. Pyre, for example, which I am currently hosting, is more what you are describing.

Anyway, welcome!

Thanks! I didn’t even know about this place til Jack sent an invite to this game. Work is going to be crazy for me for the next couple of weeks as we begin working a full reopening plan. (I work in a restaurant and we’re closed for seating until August 1st, but we do take out).

I’ll definitely check out some games when this one is over! I’m having a hard enough time keeping up with this one.

I apologize. I shouldn't have said that.

Maybe, maybe not. But I can say that I fee you to the depths of my soul. I have to say that playing here with you guys for the last few days has been invigorating, if not frustrating af for me.

The chattiness was amicable both ways. Not bothered.

I thought you were talking to me in the post before i posted that, so I was responding to that.

How do you feel about Epignosis and Alison?

I’ve stated before, I’m not feeling great about more than half of the players atm. Right now, they’re part of that. Epi moreso than Alison.

[VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

I think Alison has made heartfelt responses. And the fact that she’s being logical about the entire situation by keeping herself in the POE makes me feel like she’s being genuine.

But if Epi flips town, then I think that might a nail in the coffin.

When push came to shove, Kitsu moved against Epignosis instead of Alison. If he is a mafioso I think that's decent. If Kitsu wanted to I think she could have found a way to justify an anti-Alison stance.

~~~

I doubt they're mafia teammates. This is something that I think looks different now than it did earlier in the game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

sabie and Kitsu

From sabie

Spoiler: show

It'd be neat and swell and stuff if some folks could give me a quick ranking (least-to-most suspicious/worthy of chopping) of the four players <20 posts:

KitsuShel
sprityo
DrWilgy
ColinIsCool

I kind of thought kitsushels miller claim was weird but other than that okay
Colin is no read
Drwilgy
Spirityo

I kind of thought kitsushels miller claim was weird

Tell me more!

Not a lot more to it. I found it weird they didn't know they were a miller before others started talking about it and the way it was worded. Though I realize that might just be how they post and didn't realize what the term was before.

to clarify, the word “miller” did not appear in my role. i was told if im coped i come up scum, but thats all. if kitsu’s role is the same, she still might not know that miller = her role if shes unfamiliar with the term

does that make sense?

Yeah I wasn't putting a lot of stock into that. Jay just took that little bit of my post out of context. I am not scum reading kitsu for that I was just talking about my initial reaction to it. Jay had asked about a few specific players and that was part of my response.

sabie did not join the chorus of town reads for Kitsu in light of the miller thing. The "seemed weird to me but okay" delivery of the read doesn't strike me as distancing.

The latter ish, This makes Sabie town even though she’s presenting a bad read

Agreed.

I missed a step, what does Sabie have to do with this?

Hally asked too, so I'll answer both:

I think it looks like an authentic thought from sabie to wonder why a player doesn't know what a miller is while also claiming to be a miller. It's at least "weird" as sabie described it -- she still placed him as the least suspicious, so there's no opportunism there. It's just a vague concern that I can track with. It's why I followed up her comment with my question about the miller roles (which I think clear the matter up for KitsuShel's sake).

Right you asked about reads on a few specific people and with kitsushel that was the one thing that kind of stood out but after some clarification it makes more sense now.

Don't think this is how a mafia teammate of Kitsu handles this stuff.

I've given up on syndi ways this is full hcrealms hunting

What’s that supposed to mean?

I'm not trying to solve the game via town behavior and POEs but rather by an in depth examination of night actions

Ok then. I thought it was a derogatory comment at first, lol.

But that reasoning might be why I had a more difficult time day one. I’m not used to people jumping right out at you and making charts off your personality. My experiences tend to be more write-up/action-driven deductions.

I've been on this site for years but sometimes I still struggle with that too. Like how people get right into reads before there's much to base the reads off of. I'm not a go in guns blazing type player.

Not bothered

Reasons to be town thing-

ColinIsCool uh he more recently has tried to get involved I guess

Long Con Recent events with the role card thing

TonyStarkPrime seems like his usual town meta

DrWilgy I've seen him get mislynched for inactivity before.

Spacedaisy when she is here she seems genuine in her reads and posting

Wisp the situation earlier with the role card thing seemed genuine

KitsuShel I don't know not much doesn't seem super sketchy I guess.

sabie12 my role pm

Epignosis when he is here he is his usual joking self I guess.

Alison seems to be putting in effort for reads and stuff.

JaggedJimmyJay trying to get town to work together

Hally seems genuine in her posting

sprityo/Pawn Lelouch could just be too busy to be super involved.

In the Trustfall, sabie didn't even mention the miller thing as a point of possible credit for Kitsu. I think a mafia teammate of Kitsu would mention the miller thing.

I won’t be rereading Tony’s ISO because I did that yesterday; I go back and forth on him but can’t find it in me to feel good enough to remove him from POE.

I just read KitsuShel’s and I invite everybody else to check it out, because I seriously am not seeing the obvious-town everybody else is. In 2 pages of posts there are only a few (possibly less than 5, even) that offer reads. Most of it is questions about set-up, terminology, theories of the game that aren’t actual expressions of suspicions, and things that aren’t reads. She is the one person in the game that I have seriously no idea what they believe, and that leaves me pinged as all-get-out.

I don't see kitsushel as obvious town. I'm a bit more of a null on her I guess. I feel like she is not used to how we do things here and she's struggling to figure that all out. I believe part of the reason people are town reading her is that they think she is being genuine and that she may be less unsure about everything if she had teammates to help her figure it out.

Seems like a reasonable enough perspective

I won’t be rereading Tony’s ISO because I did that yesterday; I go back and forth on him but can’t find it in me to feel good enough to remove him from POE.

I just read KitsuShel’s and I invite everybody else to check it out, because I seriously am not seeing the obvious-town everybody else is. In 2 pages of posts there are only a few (possibly less than 5, even) that offer reads. Most of it is questions about set-up, terminology, theories of the game that aren’t actual expressions of suspicions, and things that aren’t reads. She is the one person in the game that I have seriously no idea what they believe, and that leaves me pinged as all-get-out.

I don't see kitsushel as obvious town. I'm a bit more of a null on her I guess. I feel like she is not used to how we do things here and she's struggling to figure that all out. I believe part of the reason people are town reading her is that they think she is being genuine and that she may be less unsure about everything if she had teammates to help her figure it out.

I’m absolutely in agreement with what Sabie’s saying. It took a day or two, but I think I kinda get how y’all play here and I think it’s kinda wild, lol

Like, how anyone can just automatically throw someone out of a POE for a feeling or vibe kinda blows my mind. I don’t know any of you, and all of you are suspect to me. The only one that’s given me a consistent good feeling is Hally.

If anyone wanted my opinion or feelings, they just had to ask. I offered my insight up before and felt like I got shot down because my playstyle is different than the hive mind here.

It's okay my playstyle is different and people sometimes give me a hard time about it but now I'm just like eh whatever. I'm just going to be me. Like my ideas get shot down sometimes or like people don't respond. So you're not alone! Just be you and play how you want because it's a game and enjoyment of the game is important.

This whole exchange does not look like mafia teammates.

From Kitsu

Spoiler: show

LC, Hally, Wisp lock town

i see some people townreading SD. why can't the claim be fake?

why would she ever fake that as wolf?

i thought she was town before that anyway

fair enough

i agree with both of these things on re-read of the context she claimed in

LC, Hally, Wisp, SD lock town

no reason to scumread JJJ now that I'm satisfied it wasn't a bus

will still look at the interactions to see if I can piece something out of it after my tournament

Idk if I’d lock them in, but I feel better about them as possible town atm. My core of trust going into today was Nanook, Jay, Alison, Hally, and Sabie, with Wisp and SD on the middle tier, so I’m okay.

It’s just, what are the chances a misdirector would hit a cop on the first try?

So you can’t keep throwing out there that I haven’t “offered any insight”, this my list/ranking atm. Likely town, from top to bottom.

Hally
JJJ
Wisp
Spacedaisy
Sabie
Nutella
Epi
ColinIsCool
Alison
Long Con
TonyStarkPrime

Atm = At the moment

At the moment, I’m leaning more towards Epi being mafia than Alison, but I wouldn’t be surprised either way.

Cool. Could you describe briefly what has led you to this change of heart about how to prioritize the two of them? I realize I am incessant with my questions, so thank you for humoring me.

I’d say probably because Alison has been more active maybe?

NGL, in a situation where I don’t have a good feel for something, I tend to sheep and follow whomever I feel is most town-like. Atm, it’s you and Hally. Followed by Wisp, Spacedaisy, and Sabie.

If I don’t have a good handle of who I think is mafia, I’ll throw my vote on whomever the majority feel like it should be.

The consistent theme here is that Kitsu views sabie on the lower end of her town reads. I think that's aligned with the general consensus and doesn't really bother me.

~~~

I have no good reasons to call them mafia teammates. I think sabie's handling of Kitsu's miller claim is a pretty strong indicator that they are not mafia teammates.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This was conclusive as hell to me. Please y'all, just review what I have said. I was deliberately brief in my commentary to make it a less onerous read.

Kitsu is just not a mafioso. The end.

sabie is unlikely to be a mafioso.

Epi, Tony, and Colin all fit together just fine. The mafia team could just be solved.

But Jay, you're a mafioso and you just want to chop easy targets!

Stop it. Zip it. Go read the interactions. To me this looks pretty clear cut. I don't care if Colin and Tony "seem honest" in recent memory. Not good enough. sabie and Kitsu seem more honest and they also don't fit on any damned teams.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If we end up with night results contrary to the analysis, then that will mean a more dedicated investigation of the town core is necessary. If not, I feel pretty good about the current state of affairs.

If there's some kind of 3P poisoner or something responsible for Hally dying, I don't have an ideal hunting methodology on-hand to resolve that issue. I will have to think about it. Relying on kill analysis is nigh pointless given Hally's invulnerable civilian status.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

And if Jack made a game without a mafia team, have your pitchforks sharpened.

[ColinIsCool]

Epignosis is good enough to fool me but I really struggle to see him being scum here.

This is concerning from a "vote for Not Epi" standpoint rather than a "vote for Alison" standpoint. I don't know how it's possible to have this perspective about Epignosis.

"good enough to fool me"

Does that reflect how we'd be describing Epignosis post-game if he "fools us" with his current performance? Just too good to catch? Eh

Look, my perspective on Epignosis is not going to be the same moving forward. I really thought that Alison was scum but evidently not. Epi has looked pretty much within his town meta for me here but the last flip forces me to rethink that.

I get why you have us teamed in your mind, and if he’s bad I’m basically on record as defending Epi and saying I’d rather defend my teammates, but that’s just ColinIsCool being ColinIsDumb.

[ColinIsCool]

My conference talk is finished. Tonight I will review all two-way interactions in this group, with notes:

Colin
Tony
Epignosis
sabie
Kitsu

If you think I should feature Long Con, nutella, Spacedaisy, and/or Wisp then please say so.

General note: I really want to win this game. More than even most of my civilian games. If you’re allergic to appeals like this, please calm down and let me explain why:

1.) Civilians have not been winning here very much lately, and it doesn’t reflect the skills and talents of the players on this site. I know we’re better, but we have got to prove it.

2.) Nanook, Hally, and Alison played their asses off. The are all now powerless to impact the game, and they have to watch from the sideline while we do whatever it is we do. So let’s give them what they deserve. If Funnygurl was among us too, then say the same for her.

3.) I want this to be the beginning of a paradigm shift on The Syndicate, where towns will no longer settle for playing as a conglomeration of independents and instead play as a cohesive hunting machine. We’ve been there before. We have strayed. Reclaim the glory for all of us, old regulars and newcomers alike.

Let’s please leave it all on the field. This is still there for the taking. Thank you for tolerating my incessant head coach shtick. I’m doing it because I know I’m not the only one.

I don’t think a scum Jay makes this post. That’d be a new one in the Manipulation Handbook.

[Spacedaisy]

sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
@Spacedaisy
do we just follow Alison's legacy and double check Epi here?
or are we splitting?

I’m so sorry guys!!! I’ve been so tired after work I fell asleep and slept through the deadline!

I don’t think we should stick together, because it won’t cause less confusion if one of her resirected. We might as well split up and cover more people and then the whole group can talk about what we believe about the results.

[Spacedaisy]

Awe shit that was a tough day...

I’m doubly sorry for not being here.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

General questions for everyone:

Do you believe there is another hostile independent player?

If there is another hostile independent player, who do you think it is?

How do you propose we go about hunting for such a player?

[Long Con]

General questions for everyone:

Do you believe there is another hostile independent player?

If there is another hostile independent player, who do you think it is?

How do you propose we go about hunting for such a player?

Yeet suspicious players. Use town abilities to best advantage. Adapt plan as new info comes in.

[nutella]

This was conclusive as hell to me. Please y'all, just review what I have said. I was deliberately brief in my commentary to make it a less onerous read.

Kitsu is just not a mafioso. The end.

sabie is unlikely to be a mafioso.

Epi, Tony, and Colin all fit together just fine. The mafia team could just be solved.

But Jay, you're a mafioso and you just want to chop easy targets!

Stop it. Zip it. Go read the interactions. To me this looks pretty clear cut. I don't care if Colin and Tony "seem honest" in recent memory. Not good enough. sabie and Kitsu seem more honest and they also don't fit on any damned teams.

I'm pretty convinced

[Millium]

gotta worry about other stuff for a bit
[mention]Spacedaisy[/mention]
are you going to be around before day start?

[Millium]

gunna play out the actions, as to mitigate damage

[ColinIsCool]

General questions for everyone:

Do you believe there is another hostile independent player?

If there is another hostile independent player, who do you think it is?

How do you propose we go about hunting for such a player?

The poisoner may point to there being one, but that’s the only reason I can think of.

Anybody in my POE

Hunt the same way, we don’t have any flipped scum yet

[TonyStarkPrime]

General questions for everyone:

Do you believe there is another hostile independent player?

If there is another hostile independent player, who do you think it is?

How do you propose we go about hunting for such a player?

That's easy, it's long con. This isn't even a question.

To the mafia, if you are looking for a hostile independent, it's Long Con, kill him.

[TonyStarkPrime]

And if you poisoned Hally then do whatever you want

[TonyStarkPrime]

Not putting my album length of time into this yet but if any of y'all have some good music suggestions

[Millium]

We aren't touching Long Con

[TonyStarkPrime]

We aren't touching Long Con

are you a wolf?

[TonyStarkPrime]

is there any reason that we're clearing wisp, who has a common wolf power and
yeah targeting lc n1 with a clear is pretty indicative of "non-wolfy-behavior"

[Millium]

We aren't touching Long Con

are you a wolf?

No, are you?
Do you remember why Long Con isn't a wolf?

[TonyStarkPrime]

General questions for everyone:

Do you believe there is another hostile independent player?

If there is another hostile independent player, who do you think it is?

How do you propose we go about hunting for such a player?

That's easy, it's long con

. This isn't even a question.

To the mafia, if you are looking for a hostile independent, it's Long Con, kill him.

We aren't touching Long Con

are you a wolf?

No, are you?
Do you remember why Long Con isn't a wolf?

yes cause he's the hostile independent

[Millium]

General questions for everyone:

Do you believe there is another hostile independent player?

If there is another hostile independent player, who do you think it is?

How do you propose we go about hunting for such a player?

That's easy, it's long con

. This isn't even a question.

To the mafia, if you are looking for a hostile independent, it's Long Con, kill him.

We aren't touching Long Con

are you a wolf?

No, are you?
Do you remember why Long Con isn't a wolf?

yes cause he's the hostile independent

He matched his flavor to my check
The only bad thing is that I claimed it first, but nobody else has claimed flavor I got anyways

[Millium]

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention]
so what happened then? How did I get a town role card?
Two people claimed to have checked Long, and Hally only saw 1
1 person got a full role card, Flavor/Alignment, everything, saying they are town
1 person got a 3p check?

We had one person flip SK, and another person flip ???
Why is Long Con evil to you?

[Millium]

Common wolf power lol, if I was a mafia full cop, my first thought would not be to "claim"
Especially given the possibility of multiple other investigative roles

I check long con, and then I kill him, given what I know his ability to be
Nutella's ability is only broken as shit in this setup

Nutella can easily just use his ability on me or Space, and given so far that there hasn't been any night deaths, and one death that looks like a poison, we can assume they can't kill either of us before giving out info, whether wrong or right.

[Millium]

wolves are bottle-necked
this game is easy

[JaggedJimmyJay]

To be fair, Tony can be a mafioso and also be correct about Long Con. Spacedaisy did get a 3P check after all. Perhaps she was redirected to Pawn as we’d previously assumed, or perhaps her check was literal.

The difficulty here comes in the check dynamic. If Long Con was given a fake role [card] and his real role stipulates Wisp’s check goes to the fake — why does Daisy get the real alignment? I wouldn’t know how to puzzle that together.

Anyway at present it’s still not a certainty that this additional 3P exists.

[Millium]

I mean, that world means two things
I got redirected, and the person I did check, isn't ccing the flavor claim because ???
oorrrrrrrrrrrr my ability does hit fake claims? which I have never once seen be a thing

[Long Con]

General questions for everyone:

Do you believe there is another hostile independent player?

If there is another hostile independent player, who do you think it is?

How do you propose we go about hunting for such a player?

That's easy, it's long con. This isn't even a question.

To the mafia, if you are looking for a hostile independent, it's Long Con, kill him.

That's not true. Why are you saying such things?

To be fair, Tony can be a mafioso and also be correct about Long Con. Spacedaisy did get a 3P check after all. Perhaps she was redirected to Pawn as we’d previously assumed, or perhaps her check was literal.

The difficulty here comes in the check dynamic. If Long Con was given a fake role [card] and his real role stipulates Wisp’s check goes to the fake — why does Daisy get the real alignment? I wouldn’t know how to puzzle that together.

Anyway at present it’s still not a certainty that this additional 3P exists.

Not to mention that Hally only saw Wisp checking me on Night 1.

[Millium]

also theeee above ^^^

[Millium]

wait no, she did not see my directly?
didnt she state that she only saw one person target Long?
wth was her flip again, one sec

[Millium]

no role flips at all... wtf

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I thought she, as a voyeur, saw that LC had been checked.“ (just not by whom). She provided the specifics, just gotta find it in her posts.

[Millium]

I thought she, as a voyeur, saw that LC had been checked.“ (just not by whom). She provided the specifics, just gotta find it in her posts.

please do

[Long Con]

I thought her posts generally were confident that she had seen Wisp.