The Syndicate

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:35 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:30 pm Alright Mac if you live to D4 without a single pelt you always get lynched. Is it alright for you?

Isn't day 4 lylo if there's no chops? There's no way in hell I'd just go belly up at lylo. That's literally gamethrowing.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:21 pm Creature in anti spew?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:16 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:14 pm Most optimal play seems to be resolve Alison and Porscha, but tbh I'm scared of both flipping town and then me being the next mislynch bringing town to 4v3 pretty quickly.

So chopping Alison is optimal in your mind.

But if it happens I'm always mafia?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:25 pm How many does it have to be to be salad?

I could yeet SPF, Alison or maybe Mac.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:39 pm Porscha, Creature, Falcon all town. Going back to my meta of only being able to find townies.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:50 pm Mac town. Not that anybody needs my legacy.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:00 pm Oh well, it's been a slice.


Alison, Mac, Boq


Legacy.



Peace out homies, and good luck town. I now must make supper

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:59 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:52 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:50 pm also, yes, i still think that alison is town. if i'm wrong and wolfsiding by accident, then whatever, i can accept that. i think there is a high likeliehood that creature has spewed alison as town based on the way he has spoken about her throughout the last few pages, and i also do not see any self-preservation intent in the way that alison is attempting to play today. in fact, i've only seen her give up and admit defeat as a villager before, even though i'm sure it is something that is plausibly within her wolfrange

the only concern i have about alison is that she's pushing a POE (ie: me/porscha) that seems potentially wolfsided, but even then, i don't feel the wolf motivation behind her pushes and think it is mroe likely she is a villager with an upside down view of the game

If you think I am a villager you should think I have a correct view of the game honestly. I am pushing you/Porscha/Creature... do you have specific reasons to townread Porscha/Creature?

What teams that don't contain me, you or Mac would kill Jack?

i think porscha is more likely to be town than not even though she is in the weaker tier of my townleans. i will admit to feeling a bit intuitively inclined to defend her (similarly to how i have felt inclined to defend you) because i perceive her as an easy target to pick on, a thd i'm uncomfortable with the amount of pressure that has been brought up against her without any tangible/coherent reason. i think the posts she made last night were fine, and even good

i think that creature is likely to be a wolf and is almost guaranteed to be a wolf in a world where you're town. the parts of your POE that i take issue with are the cinsluion of myself and porscha

also to answer your other question, i don't really care to speculate on which team might have killed jack, nor do i really care. i do not factor NKA heavily into my reads and think it is largely a waste of time. i held a similar principle in the spec chat invitational game and the game was better for it

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:59 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:55 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:50 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:34 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:16 pm D3 Creature -> Porscha -> Rondo -> SPF ends the game, either immediately or the day after when the third wolf is outed by those flips.

Unless I am calculating wrong this is auto even if there are only two wolves in the first four.

IF I AM EVER LYNCHED THIS GAME MAC SHOULD ALWAYS BE LYNCHED NEXT IF HE'S STILL ALIVE

HIS PUSHES HAVE BEEN PRETTY BAD-FAITH SO FAR AND I FEEL LIKE HE'S JUST FULL OF SHIT ESPECIALLY IF ALL OF FALCON, ALISON AND ME ARE TOWN

What's with the fixation on Mac specifically? Lucy has been in lockstep with him and has pushed the same reads he has for the same reasons. If your gripe with Mac is that his pushes are wolfy then surely you should have the same opinion of lucy especially since she's the one who actually wrote the "burial" case on you and said we should only ever exe you or me today.

Alright then lynch Mac and policy lynch Lucy.

If you're town that means Mac has been pushing mislynches all game and it would be insulting to his town image to not lynch him right after.

I still can see Lucy playing this bad as town. tbh it feels like she just latches to a strong player and doesn't consider the possibility they could be just wolves.

this isn't true in the slightest lmao, if that was how I play why did I not latch onto Alison in warrior?
also I'm pretty sure my thoughts have been fairly independent this game and I just happen to see things similarly to Mac

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:39 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:38 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:34 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:16 pm D3 Creature -> Porscha -> Rondo -> SPF ends the game, either immediately or the day after when the third wolf is outed by those flips.

Unless I am calculating wrong this is auto even if there are only two wolves in the first four.

IF I AM EVER LYNCHED THIS GAME MAC SHOULD ALWAYS BE LYNCHED NEXT IF HE'S STILL ALIVE

HIS PUSHES HAVE BEEN PRETTY BAD-FAITH SO FAR AND I FEEL LIKE HE'S JUST FULL OF SHIT ESPECIALLY IF ALL OF FALCON, ALISON AND ME ARE TOWN

Strange way of saying "if Alison is town" at the bottom.

I think creature man spewed Alison town, in the message he contradicted himself in he was always doing it in a town!Alison world

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:55 pm "D3 Creature -> Porscha -> Rondo -> SPF ends the game"

- Alison

"i want to kill creature today, and i switched my vote to him"
"the only concern i have about alison is that she's pushing a POE (ie: me/porscha) that seems potentially wolfsided"
- SPF

-

Unless you have a reason to clear Rondo you should believe that my POE is far from wolfsided.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:50 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:34 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:16 pm D3 Creature -> Porscha -> Rondo -> SPF ends the game, either immediately or the day after when the third wolf is outed by those flips.

Unless I am calculating wrong this is auto even if there are only two wolves in the first four.

IF I AM EVER LYNCHED THIS GAME MAC SHOULD ALWAYS BE LYNCHED NEXT IF HE'S STILL ALIVE

HIS PUSHES HAVE BEEN PRETTY BAD-FAITH SO FAR AND I FEEL LIKE HE'S JUST FULL OF SHIT ESPECIALLY IF ALL OF FALCON, ALISON AND ME ARE TOWN

What's with the fixation on Mac specifically? Lucy has been in lockstep with him and has pushed the same reads he has for the same reasons. If your gripe with Mac is that his pushes are wolfy then surely you should have the same opinion of lucy especially since she's the one who actually wrote the "burial" case on you and said we should only ever exe you or me today.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:34 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:32 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:03 pm @arogame123 did you not think Lucy kinda destroyed Creature here? I thought what she dropped near outed him tbh.

Pretty sure I debunked Lucy's whole case on me with facts and logic right here:

Spoiler: show

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:08 am

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:27 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:12 am Like we're probably either in a universe where:

Alison is mafia with whoever the fuck
or
Neon/Lily are mafia and their whole agenda in this game is just pocket and try to coast

I feel like almost everybody with the exception of Creature and SPF are relatively suspicious of Alison at this point? (If you aren't then vocalise it).

I feel like almost nobody EXCEPT Creature/Alison/SPF is suspicious of Neon or Lily?

@RondoDimBuckle can you come play or something.

@lucy what's your gamestate?

459AB5B5-C7A4-4B20-BA83-8DBCB3145DD3.jpeg

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:28 am

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:24 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:20 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:19 pm

We shouldn't restrict our lynch options today. It's not set in stone Alison is wolf and I feel like wolves are skating under the radar while we eat each other.

Maybe you just don't actually realise how bad this is but not killing the counterwagon on day 2 is the number 1 thing that leads to town losing mountainous games. Nothing else comes close.

Perhaps. I just hate giving wolves a free day pass because we have to resolve wagons when TvT wagons are quite common.

I'm still right. When two players end up being final wagons D1 and one of them gets flipped town, the other is bound to get resolved sooner or later. I just disagree they should be resolved instantly.

Like, in that game you're referencing at some poijt the wagons were you (wolf) v Chaos (town) v Vanta Black (town). Eventually your wagon collapsed into a Chaos (town) v Vanta Black (town) final thunderdome. Vanta Black ended up lynched that day and Chaos was poisoned the next night, while you got a pass all the way to endgame.

I'm concerned the same thing could've happened with Porscha (wolf) v Alison (town) v falcon45ca (town): the Porscha wagon collapsed into an Alison (town) v falcon45ca (town) final thunderdome where we lynched falcon45caand now we're resolving Alison while Porscha gets away.

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:11 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:34 am

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:05 pm Lilypetal's play here feels bizarre from a wolf perspective. Though sometimes I still get bothered that I'm noy used to Lilypetal playing like this. I wonder if it's Syndicate's behavior altering elixir in action.

Hmmm

Sableye;6246067 wrote:I guess my lucy townread had to do with her actions not making sense from wolf, like claiming VT right out of the gate. I also kinda agreed when someone said her reactions felt genuinely frustrated town.

These two posts are remarkably similar lol.

Pretty sure my townread on Lilypetal is structured a lot differently than my lucy townread on the other game. Here I expressed the reason why I townread Lilypetal and also pointed something I was concerned about her. That other game I only listed reasons to townread lucy without any drawback.

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:12 am Hell I guess I pushed Lilypetal remorselessly a lot D1 because of her entrance. I feel like I would be inclined to just ignore my partner's entrance or just be quick to drop suspicions about them.

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:18 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:48 am Okay here are some quotes from Creature from this game Lucy has pulled irt how he treats teammates (August this year so very recent, probably Creature's most recent wolfrand).

It's not even close to my most recent wolfrand. I guess I ended up playing fairly suboptimally there because I was alting and the deadlines were so long I often got bored.

My most recent non-mash wolfrand was Something Simple which had a 48/24 deadline format just like this game. If you're suspecting Alison and I are partnered this game is an even better comparison because I was wolfing with Alice Liddell and I deem both Alison and Alice to be strong (wolf) players so you can just compare my treatment of them.

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:21 am Also I remember Alison was very frustrated at Twice Shrunk for burning all his towncred to defend her in the Spec Chat game. If we were wolf partners I feel like I've been defending her so much she'd want to marry Twice Shrunk after this game.

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:27 am

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:54 am mac, don’t go off his play around me, i was mafia poisoned and wagon d1
he tried to and successfully spewed me town
his play would logically be different this game in compared to around me that game

There's this too. I feel like I would've prob bussed lucy that game if lucy wasn't the wolf's strongest role by far.

I ended up making shit up so I could save lucy and I knew that would probably make me look bad. I ended up just taking advantage of town unaligning lucy and me because I defended her vehemently.

Also I ended up pushing my other two partners a lot trying to spew them town when lucy and I both eventually were lynched.

I read it multiple times and it was weak and not compelling at all

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:16 pm D3 Creature -> Porscha -> Rondo -> SPF ends the game, either immediately or the day after when the third wolf is outed by those flips.

Unless I am calculating wrong this is auto even if there are only two wolves in the first four.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:03 pm @arogame123 did you not think Lucy kinda destroyed Creature here? I thought what she dropped near outed him tbh.

Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:04 am

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:07 am

Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:17 am if porscha is town, it means that the main wagons being pushed (me, jack, porscha) were all town.
I just woke up and will read up later, but I will keep that in mind tbh

what's the logic behind this pls?

I am town
I know Jack was town
If you are town
It means all three main pushes were town.

It would imply that wolves had it chill last day until eod. It is only if Alison is wolf that the wolf team was in any sense of danger tbh

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:12 am Like we're probably either in a universe where:

Alison is mafia with whoever the fuck
or
Neon/Lily are mafia and their whole agenda in this game is just pocket and try to coast

I feel like almost everybody with the exception of Creature and SPF are relatively suspicious of Alison at this point? (If you aren't then vocalise it).

I feel like almost nobody EXCEPT Creature/Alison/SPF is suspicious of Neon or Lily?

@RondoDimBuckle can you come play or something.

@lucy what's your gamestate?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:04 am Critically bad mischops are the players that the mafia will want to kill themselves. SPF, Arogame, Boquise, myself. Several of these players should be self resolved by f7. So you just shouldn't bother chopping this group and shouldn't even really bother even humouring it (even if one or several of us are wolves tbh). I think it's pro mafia to even tinfoil these four names honestly.

It should just be a combined effort primarily led by these four names to actually coordinate the chops because of that. Even if they are mafia it will be enticing to townside and bus.

If we're allowed to lead, and somehow get to f7 without any wolves dead, I'll retire from mafia (and it should also out some fools and give us the best chance of limlo anyway).

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:54 am mac, don’t go off his play around me, i was mafia poisoned and wagon d1
he tried to and successfully spewed me town
his play would logically be different this game in compared to around me that game

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:48 am Okay here are some quotes from Creature from this game Lucy has pulled irt how he treats teammates (August this year so very recent, probably Creature's most recent wolfrand).

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:34 am

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:05 pm Lilypetal's play here feels bizarre from a wolf perspective. Though sometimes I still get bothered that I'm noy used to Lilypetal playing like this. I wonder if it's Syndicate's behavior altering elixir in action.

Hmmm

Sableye;6246067 wrote:I guess my lucy townread had to do with her actions not making sense from wolf, like claiming VT right out of the gate. I also kinda agreed when someone said her reactions felt genuinely frustrated town.

These two posts are remarkably similar lol.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:27 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:12 am Like we're probably either in a universe where:

Alison is mafia with whoever the fuck
or
Neon/Lily are mafia and their whole agenda in this game is just pocket and try to coast

I feel like almost everybody with the exception of Creature and SPF are relatively suspicious of Alison at this point? (If you aren't then vocalise it).

I feel like almost nobody EXCEPT Creature/Alison/SPF is suspicious of Neon or Lily?

@RondoDimBuckle can you come play or something.

@lucy what's your gamestate?

459AB5B5-C7A4-4B20-BA83-8DBCB3145DD3.jpeg

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:28 am

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:24 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:20 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:19 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:17 pm spf and creature, game theory wise do we Lynch the cw?

We shouldn't restrict our lynch options today. It's not set in stone Alison is wolf and I feel like wolves are skating under the radar while we eat each other.

Maybe you just don't actually realise how bad this is but not killing the counterwagon on day 2 is the number 1 thing that leads to town losing mountainous games. Nothing else comes close.

Perhaps. I just hate giving wolves a free day pass because we have to resolve wagons when TvT wagons are quite common.

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:34 pm I'll prob ignore Alison/Mac rn. I can kinda relate to Alison saying Mac wouldn't use an OGI read on her as wolf. Still not feeling Alison is a wolf here, although her solve of Porscha + me + Lily/Rondo doesn't make a single sense.

Therefore we should prob look for wolves here:

Boquise
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Porscha
RondoDimBuckle
Seanzie
staypositivefriend

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:32 pm We should prob focus on building a good towncore and narrow down the POE a little. I feel like we're too over the place.

My firm townreads last night were arogame123, Lilypetal, lucy and Neon.

I'm asking you all what do you make out of Lilypetal's and Neon's wagon movements yesterday which pretty much risked a nolynch. I thought Lilypetal switching to a vanity wagon was TWTBW and also I feel like she panicked when falcon45ca posted like a dying town EOD. Neon is roughly the same but I think she comes off as more robotic to me.

arogame123 really had some pretty solvy posts at some points. I only wonder if he is deeping here.

lucy I townread mostly for repeatedly posting the VC at yesterday's EOD. It just felt like something lucy wouldn't bother doing as wolf.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:35 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:22 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:18 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:15 pm wtf Alison I feel like you're doing mental gymnastics now.

Ok so who is mafia with Porscha?

I'm trying to figure out who else can be mafia (not necessarily aligned with Porscha). If Porscha flips wolf I'd prob look at who pushed falcon over Porscha before the wagons were trimmed down to you v falcon.

Creature you can say my name.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:20 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:19 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:17 pm spf and creature, game theory wise do we Lynch the cw?

We shouldn't restrict our lynch options today. It's not set in stone Alison is wolf and I feel like wolves are skating under the radar while we eat each other.

Maybe you just don't actually realise how bad this is but not killing the counterwagon on day 2 is the number 1 thing that leads to town losing mountainous games. Nothing else comes close.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:18 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:15 pm wtf Alison I feel like you're doing mental gymnastics now.

Ok so who is mafia with Porscha?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:17 pm I'm not going to engage so don't bother asking me anything;

If today's chop is Alison; and Alison flips town then Porscha and Creature are almost always mafia. Flip them with no remorse.

If Alison flips mafia; turbo punt Creature into the sun. Keep wary of Porscha because Alison is a known busser but Porscha's alignment becomes tricky.

If today's chop is Porscha; and Porscha flips town then Creature and Alison are almost always mafia. Flip them with no remorse.

If Porscha flips mafia, then turbo punt Creature into the sun. Keep wary of Alison because Alison is a known busser but her alignment becomes tricky.

If today's chop is Creature (which it probably should be, but won't be), and he flips town, I struggle to even understand what that would mean. Kill me and get me out of the game. If he flips mafia, kill Alison AND Porscha and you will guarantee find at least one more wolf (and if we're really lucky 2).

The game won't end from this, but frankly anything else happening but some combination of the above, means town probably lose this game.

lucy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:17 pm spf and creature, game theory wise do we Lynch the cw?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:06 pm i also dont think that creature is much of a powerwolf from my experience - i remember that he hard bussed me when i was wolfing with him in a way that was pretty out of left field, and he made a point to create a lot of distance from his partners. he's treating alison pretty much the opposite in this game

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:05 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:04 pm How many wolves would we get if we lynched all of Alison/Boquise/MacDougall/staypositivefriend at the same time?

tbh Alison is the only one I townread inside that group and I'm only getting doubts because Mac seems to say otherwise and "muh resolve D1 wagons".

MacDougall I almost called him tunneled town but I feel like I've done the same in Game of Champions 2021 where he was also not making any sense and he ended up being wolf just stirring shit at the thread.

How am I not making sense? Tell me where I made no sense?

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:01 pm It probably is actually just Porscha Creature X where X is Rondo or Lily.