The Syndicate

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:47 pm martin town

rip

tbh I'm just a replacement

I also overslept kinda badly

so its partially my fault as well if anything

And yes I know Epi is kinda low in that list of PoE but IMO the others can be just as towny as him.

He also somehow COULD be a scum but I'm doubtful of it rn.

[insert low-quality contributions]

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:56 am

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:17 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:15 am I'm /very/ concerned that this game is going to go like abdimals did where the chops all seem predestined and largely on obvious townies who need to be chopped to rid the poe of them

do you think martin is an obvious townie? or who would you chop instead? you’re voting long con. can you talk to me about that?

I sorta empathize with martin's position. it's very easy for me to think of him as town. I don't think he is for sure, there are a whole lot of reasons to think otherwise in this gamestate. I think Long Con is a bit of a weird case. He's generally on target, but seems to me like the most likely wolf outside of the martin/mr duo. Just seems like the best vote for me to try to keep the game from staying stuck.

btw while it should be noted I didn't spend a whole lot of time in this game and I probably didn't read a whole lot of some players

he might be worthwhile to look into

like I guess my PoE

is something along the lines of

MR -> LC (I haven't read much) -> Juliets (I haven't read much, including progression on Made) -> Epi -> Tutuu/Marmot -> Tony (I haven't read much) -> Seanize (I read most but not all) -> Hally

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:15 am I'm /very/ concerned that this game is going to go like abdimals did where the chops all seem predestined and largely on obvious townies who need to be chopped to rid the poe of them

If I still had the time I probably would go skim through that game tbh

Well, I know dizzy played in the champs final and was the Grasslands host but that's it.

Honestly I kinda don't know why I made this (pointless) argument so late.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:59 am i don’t see why i wouldn’t kill dizzy N1 though, if i’m being perfectly honest. i don’t always when i’m scum but in this game i probably would (though it would depend on who my teammate was)

but i think pretty much anyone else would also kill dizzy first after D1, so

If I came into the game in control of the kill I probably would kill one of the top-posters

maybe dizzy maybe not but arguably since I didn't know dizzy I might've just killed someone like you or tutuu instead both of who could be very hard to get eliminated

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:29 pm @MartinGG99 i want to apologize again for frustrating you earlier

No need to apologize. I think we're just different people and we just think differently.

Its bound to happen at some point.

I just grew frustrated realizing that given some of my interactions with you in grasslands, IIRC I think I got frustrated as well

But honestly it just seems to be more of an inherent difference between us rather than anything done wrong by either of us.

Its just that I might still get a little upset over that and the best course of action for me to is to leave the thread for a short while; but I'm very good at learning to control my emotions (in a precautionary sense) so I doubt it'll be likely to happen again in the future.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:21 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:18 pm Maybe we can flash wagon Marmot?

It'd be funny.

I wouldn't be opposed.

Eh. I would have my own reasons for voting Marmot but in all seriousness I think he's town.

I would like to comment though the way he brought up a single quote from Made in his scum game and compared it to this one and then summarily vote him after said comparison is almost quite literrally what I did in my last scum-game off-site to another scummmate.

I still think hes more likely to be town than not. But I can't say locked town though.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:20 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:39 pm Okay, so I actually read a bit more of the context for what I was reading earlier.

I didn't realize Epi just simply OMGUS voted Marmot.

Not the case at all.

Well my original reason for voting with you was because I felt and thought you were town and so I looked at who you voted in the the vote-poll and followed that.

Especially since I wasn't aware of everything (and still kinda am) in the the game so far.

You did make a big post about him, but "middle pile" doesn't sound exactly like a scum read to me and more of a "null read". Later, I found your post that had the vote on Marmot and it had that meanie emoji on it, looking like a silly OMGUS if we looked at that vote post exclusively.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:51 pm Is it just Sean and Guillo/Martin? Normally if you have a top 2 poe, you're fine voting either option?

(in regards to Sean)

Nah. I recently did that sort of thing in a town game I had recently off-site. I mean, OF COURSE they're fine voting either option. Its just pragmatic to vote what you think is feasible.

Besides, sometimes its better to be showing those hard stances in the PoE as to whether you think X player is town or not, instead of going off on one's own little scum-hunt adventure story.

It helps with solving imo. And honestly I would rather be executed by a large wagon instead of a small one for that reason, so as of late I am glad for that.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:09 pm wouldn’t be surprised if he’s town though

thank you for at least giving me that

it just might be, unfortunately, the "correct" elimination by virtue of never escaping the PoE and that apparently half the people here think Made was dumb enough to "spew me mafia" like that

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:07 pm Have you looked for hidden messages or anything within the image?

There aren't any, at least not that I'm aware of. Its just a much lower-quality bike partially submerged in (what I guess) could say is some sort of quick-sand.

Only message is the title of the PM called "A Haunting Vision"

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:44 pm believe MR is spewed town and guillotine is spewed mafia pls vote martin pls

I could be slightly wrong but honestly I think its the opposite given that Made never really distanced from anyone / distanced from one more than the other in particular

and once I flip green you'll realize his vote had been sitting on a town for most of D1 of which he never really pushed hard at all during that day (at least not what I've seen through my skimming)

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:41 pm i believe that made just got himself killed to make Guillo (the mafia PR) look good off of his flip

How the hell was I looking good after what he did?

Wolves are self-aware and you're acting like he had no self-awareness in doing that

@tutuu when I flip I want you take a long look at this point

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:27 pm

Made wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:58 pm [VOTE: Mr Radishes] aubergine

like look at this shit, Made is basically suiciding so that Guillotine doesn't die

let me double check the votes

See?

You're acting like its obvious, and the truth is Made should've of seen it as the same way as well.

And yet you're not considering that.

Since I think people who think more straight-forwardly are more direct in their efforts to try and decieve the town instea dof being a bit fluffy and distanced a bit / having no direct interactions with anyone in particular

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:57 pm Or do you think he was too 1-dimensional to think, what you're proposing with the !scum Gulio idea is, "I can't vote my mafia partners"

like seriously

if he had that sort of thinking

he probably would be trying harder to contribute in the thread

or like the Made from the Shadow Corridors game that I saw imo

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:21 pm also he didnt self-pres to guillo, he could have

Do you think Made was not painfully aware of that while being the top wagon?

Or do you think he was too 1-dimensional to think, what you're proposing with the !scum Gulio idea is, "I can't vote my mafia partners"

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:26 pm Hes mafia if its not tony + marton imo

thank you for justifying (or incidentally agree with) my current vote

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:20 pm though i suppose a player could have sent it through jay. but i don’t know where anyone would find an image like that, is my point

Well my counterpoint is that the message could be pre-determined.

I mean, hosts pre-type up the possible feedback people can receive. Maybe this role can only send just that. Who knows.

And yes, I got it from Jay. As part of my N1 feedback I'm guessing.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:17 pm i don’t know why you’re assuming it has anything to do with kp or any utility at all.

Well, it could be a pointless power role aside from self-confirmation but generally power roles aren't pointless

especially since theres apparently a vig here I would imagine that means all the power roles will have some effect, and unless that image was sent via virtue of special mechanics in the setup

I doubt there's 0 utility in it, and given there's a vig already I doubt it has kp attached to it.

However, if I didn't know there was a vig, then it would be reasonable to think it has some sort of KP since the bike in the picture, with the descriptions I gave, is a lot less..."alive" than the ones you see in the host post pictures of bikes, especially since there's no seat on the bike.

I really overslept last night ;-;
at least its not the college semester yet

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:32 pm I agree, I'm just not sure why you pointed me at juliets rather than saying that.

Because it was a valid example fmpov?

I mean, not that I believed in it, but it would be more convincing than say, Made + Epi imo, at least under the logic I gave.

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:23 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:19 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:12 pm I subbed in in the middle of day 1.

Yeah but that's almost 24 hours of time, and you made 29 posts in that length.

Epi made around 30 posts at that length as well.

Ok, but lol, I did not play this game for 24 hours Day 1. Why do you think I would have concentrated on Epi during the time I had?

I wasn't seriously thinking you and epi were scum together.

I was simply making a point that I think I would of been convinced of that before they convince me that Epi and Made have high scummate compatibility.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:13 pm I don't understand your point here.

Scummates can often sub-consciously interact with their partners less than they normally to everyone else because they aren't trying to deceive their partners; they're trying to deceive the town. Exceptions given of course to instances to where a mafia member is on a leading vote train, for example.

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:12 pm I subbed in in the middle of day 1.

Yeah but that's almost 24 hours of time, and you made 29 posts in that length.

Epi made around 30 posts at that length as well.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:50 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:23 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:17 pm How do you feel about Epi?

Well, I've said my piece about him.

Could be wrong as I have far from lock town'ed him but I would somewhat doubt it.

Him being scum feels weird. I get the feeling if he were scum then he would be doing something different and more proactive rather than all those side comments he keeps making.

As well as my past belief that I think the way he went about voting Made and reacted to Made's flip, including his future comments about there being at EoD without any comment, are just unlikely to have been made by a made wolf partner.

What do you think about his handling of Made aside from the vote?

I talked a little bit about my opinion on that here. I think it's teammate compatible.

That said, MR is probably getting my vote today.

Honestly you would have an easier time convincing me that Epi is teamed with Grogu/Juliets for lack of D1 interaction.

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:41 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:16 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:12 pm What is there to take credit for? The last dart he threw blindly hit the secret number on the board? Epi has played enough to know that he's not going to squeeze blood from a stone.

Then why bother bussing one's scummate at all if that's the case?

You think his time would have been better spent doing something to get towncleared?

I don't get what you mean by that response.

I just think if there was no point for !scum Epi to get town-cred from the Made flip then he should either push on his other "scum-reads" or prepare for the future post-made-flip world with things to look into and pretend to be scum-hunting or something else.

Sure, he's made posts about the connections and possible partner compatibilities and what-not during N1, but if Epi was planning to do that then I would imagine there would've been a bit more coordination in that and epi's vote lands on Made sooner.

I don't know Epi well but that's my take of him.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:17 pm How do you feel about Epi?

Well, I've said my piece about him.

Could be wrong as I have far from lock town'ed him but I would somewhat doubt it.

Him being scum feels weird. I get the feeling if he were scum then he would be doing something different and more proactive rather than all those side comments he keeps making.

As well as my past belief that I think the way he went about voting Made and reacted to Made's flip, including his future comments about there being at EoD without any comment, are just unlikely to have been made by a made wolf partner.

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:12 pm What is there to take credit for? The last dart he threw blindly hit the secret number on the board? Epi has played enough to know that he's not going to squeeze blood from a stone.

Then why bother bussing one's scummate at all if that's the case?

Actually

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

I don't feel like Made just parks a vote on me since the early game, and then only 2nd vote he makes also happens to be a town.

They didn't really distance from anyone except me and them, and I'm not mafia lol. Oh and tutuu as well but rn I'm not super convince of Tutuu being plausibly scum atm.

I feel out of wack or something

like I'm (partially) aimlessly looking through ISO's and sorta random parts of the thread

but I hope I do come across something that seems to be of good interest me

Made wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:06 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:23 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:20 pmOk i understand. Butting in to answer questions meant for others is generally a scum tell, be careful.

It totally isn't imo. This is kind of what I mean with using "general scum tells" that are meant to apply to everyone. I don't know, it's not my thing. But it's ok if it works for you.

I don't tend to be careful. =p

but one step further, policy scum tells are really only useful in context- unless you're mafia in which case it's always useful

[VOTE: Guillotine] aubergine

Made's first vote of the game is on me?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:53 pm Oh. Hi, Martin!

Guillo/Radish is still my top guess. They may be harder to place with others than each other.

Tony and Nanook should be suspects, I guess.
Epi’s Made vote is weird. It really is.
Hally is my favorite tinfoil, as custom will have it. But don’t act on that.
I’m ok following Tutu on a town read on LC.
Marmot really should be town.
Tutu, Jules and Sean lock town.

huh

(also I forgot to [VOTE: unvote] aubergine)

@Seanzie

How do you feel about Long Con and Master Radishes together?

How many wolves do you see in there?

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:10 pm I'm not going to spend more time on it tbh.

As in, I would rather spend my time looking into other things right now.

I just figured I would offer my thoughts if they're anything.

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:59 pm last being roughly 5 and 1/2 hours before he voted TSP

Okay, ctrl + F apparently failed me.

Or something. I actually don't know where I got the past number in my response post, as that claim by me was inaccurate.

Anyways, they seemed to be focused on this idea of being suspicious of those who were town-reading them at the time, as that was one their posts also 5 and 1/2 hours before.

I'm not going to spend more time on it tbh.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:49 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:42 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:39 pm he's not hoping it can clear him

Is that old news? I thought he opened with that a couple of hours ago.

it was expressly stated immediately that he thought it was nai

(assuming I understand this conversation correctly)

To clarify, I've intended to mean that the feedback I got was NAI for me.

I've also said in the past that PRs are NAI, but that's in a presumed vacuum. It's my personal opinion that some things that are NAI will have nuances that can make them AI.

Such as how I think whatever targeted me on N1 to send that image probably was some sort of town role on the basis of wagonomics and etc and how unlikely I think it is for a wolf to target me.

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:42 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:39 pm Okay, so I actually read a bit more of the context for what I was reading earlier.

I didn't realize Epi just simply OMGUS voted Marmot.

What do you think of Epi's votes in general? Do you think all his hard work on Night 1 makes him towny? I don't. He just quotes a bunch of posts and concludes gibberish. I don't see at all what everyone is townreading about him. It's like his obstinance is earning applause and respectful nods.

TBH I kinda felt with his vote flying earlier at early D1 (Like 5 times across 150 posts of the thread or so) was him indicative of having no specific scum agenda.

That's also the kind of feel I get from most of his comments. Just no agenda. Also, the following doesn't seem like the kind of thing you do to a scum teammate

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:43 am [VOTE: Made] aubergine

Tell me why this is wrong.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:44 am And I will hear what you have to say tomorrow.

He's not capitalizing on it at all. And when the night phase hits:

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:46 pm I'd rather be lucky than good.

My time is limited. I'll do what I can.

He's not really taking credit for it.

Okay, so I actually read a bit more of the context for what I was reading earlier.

I didn't realize Epi just simply OMGUS voted Marmot.

Honestly #5 and #6 are kinda contradictory.

All I can say is that not every human being will be absolutely rational at all times.

Sometimes we just act erratically, or have external pressures unrelated to the game that make playing the game either a problem in the game or a problem for us as people.

In response to the Juliets wall on Gulio here

In top-down order for each spoiler/note.

1. They were quite confused by the D0 obviously, and probably felt out of place. That creates anxiety for people regardless of alignment IMO, and depends more on their personality as to how they handle that. Additionally, Jay said this at the start of day 0:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:23 pm It is Day 0. Day 1 will begin at 6:00 PM EDT tomorrow the 9th of January. You may treat this day as an ordinary game day, but there will be no voting until Day 1 begins. The primary purpose of Day 0 is to allow players to become aware the game has started and to check in. The thread is open.

If Gulio relied on this even partially, then they would have little reason to expect that D0, as per what Nanook implies in that quote, is or can be heavily involved in people's reads.

2. Okay.

3. Now, I'm not Gulio, but I do believe I can sympathize with it to a degree for a few reasons. Firstly, in my first town game here on TS with Tutuu I did at some point heavily scum-read her for (if I recall) bad reasons. Secondly, as Tutuu herself has noted multiple times this game, she is or was a frequent miselimination. People, in general, seem to have a hard time with Tutuu without having played with them before.

4. Last time they talked about Tutuu for the time of this quote was ~32 hours ago. And considering this game had ~1200 posts by the end of day 1, it isn't too inconceivable that they change their mind a little bit until later as a lot of posts had likely happened since then. Additionally, with their past post that you quoted, they work on a "guilty until proven innocent" mindset; in a sense one person is still guilty but is just less suspicious than other "guilty" persons. Though that may be stretching it a bit.

5. Okay. I could chop this up to "just having self-consciousness as part of being in a new community" buuut considering wolves are self-conscious as well, at least in the ideal world, that probably isn't going to fly (by you guys)....

6. No idea. I can't think of anything other than bringing up a "hey guys you're trying to yeet a new player in your community on day 1" card. But I doubt they were thinking that. Maybe they were just over-confident in themselves; I'm not Gulio and I don't really know them.

And the next two spoilers are pro-town-gulio, thus having no comment from me.

Also I hardclaim vanilla.

If you thought my entrance was "because I am a PR" then please get out of here.
As a saying; not literally asking you to leave the game!

Anyways since there's only at most 3 power roles I figured I should mention it rather than keep it hidden.

Okay, so what I got last night was, exclusively, an image.

It was a black-and-white picture of a lightly-colored bike partially submerged in (what I guess is) quicksand. The bike had no seat to it.

It was titled "A haunting vision".

Oh, and the picture had a white border around it sorta like a picture frame.

Now the reason why I think this might be not negative utility is because apparently someone else died on N1 along with the usual mafia kill.

Which makes me think there may not be another extra kill power out there aside from host compensation, but I don't really speculate on that, especially since I'm not aware of anything that has happened warranting that.

Unless its some sort of arsonist-like role with a smaller mafia?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:54 am Max of three non vanilla roles

Oh, its a heist.

Well, I guess its better sharing the information tbh.

Well, actually, I have to ask the host because I can't exactly "paraphrase" it.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:43 am i dont believe martin's eraticness is genuine, he is day and night compared to how he was as nurse wilgy in my game. roleplay aside martin in my game was calm and logical, extremely similar to how he was in sprityo's shadow game. this eraticness that he's presenting himself with here doesnt seem real (to me). it reminds me of when alison made the lie of "I am very emotionally frustrated." as quokka in her trademark stoneface deadpan tone, and it made sloonei laugh

You say you're scum-reading me for (seemingly) not being genuine as compared to my past town games; being less logical.

Are you saying that I am scum for not being aware of what I generally do, most often, as town?

Or is it more complicated than that?

Also, yes I've been erratic before. It just doesn't happen every single town game I have. I think you saw a fair amount of erratic me for parts of the Grassland games earlier last year.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:30 pm > = more than

Crocodile teeth point towards the bigger number because crocodile is hungry

Thanks.

So it does work like math.

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:29 am

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:16 am

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:14 am i disagree. i think it’s valuable for you to share your thoughts no matter how undeveloped or confusing they might be. it’s not as though you can’t change your mind later and anything that will help us read you has a point

well if you want to know I'm looking at Epi (who voted a mafia) right now and as of the moment I'm leaning him town

Eventually I'm going to get to the point of where he departs from the ideas of Tutuu and Hally saying that I'm scum (both of whom voted the mafia on D1)

and that's what I'm curious in right now

why is it that two of the D1 mafia voters are on me

but no one else followed them on that so far

especially the others on the D1 mafia wagon

Martin, I was one of the ones who voted mafia Made Day 1. I have not voted for you because I have not ISO'd Guillo yet to see if I agree with those who have voted for you that you/he are mafia. I don't tend to just follow people even if I think they are town (which I do think about tutuu and Hally) without my own analysis. I plan to do an iso of Guillo and re-read your posts this morning/early afternoon.

Okay, fair enough.

I didn't realize you replaced in. I just thought people might've been pushing for my elimination since later parts of night 1. Hence, enough time had already passed.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:29 pm wait I read that wrong did I?

is it

>rand = more than likely

or

<rand = more than likely

I always get confused by this. My tends to assume which is which.