The Syndicate

gg everyone and thanks for hosting DDL!

Foxy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:34 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:33 pm

Foxy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:32 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:31 pm

Foxy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:30 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:28 pm When you see my town flip at least consider the things I said today wrt strategy because now you know it’s coming from someone who’s trying to make town win.

I will give it a serious thought. But as I said multiple times, I joined to play mafia first and foremost and I do think that the strategy is not that viable. At most, it pushes the chances just a bit more

You don’t have to completely follow it. Just at least think about if what you’re saying is spewing someone as not the King before you say it.

I considered those carefully. Btw, if the flip doesn't happen by now, I am down to switch to SVS

The poll ended so I’m for sure dead. Good luck town

Well, you wouldn't lie so sorry. I tunneled and although it's day1 and mistakes are bound to happen, if I had been less lazy I probably would have found someone else more scummy. Sorry

Np, it happens and I’m not salty about it. You guys have a lot of miskills left.

Foxy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:32 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:31 pm

Foxy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:30 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:28 pm When you see my town flip at least consider the things I said today wrt strategy because now you know it’s coming from someone who’s trying to make town win.

I will give it a serious thought. But as I said multiple times, I joined to play mafia first and foremost and I do think that the strategy is not that viable. At most, it pushes the chances just a bit more

You don’t have to completely follow it. Just at least think about if what you’re saying is spewing someone as not the King before you say it.

I considered those carefully. Btw, if the flip doesn't happen by now, I am down to switch to SVS

The poll ended so I’m for sure dead. Good luck town

Foxy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:30 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 6:28 pm When you see my town flip at least consider the things I said today wrt strategy because now you know it’s coming from someone who’s trying to make town win.

I will give it a serious thought. But as I said multiple times, I joined to play mafia first and foremost and I do think that the strategy is not that viable. At most, it pushes the chances just a bit more

You don’t have to completely follow it. Just at least think about if what you’re saying is spewing someone as not the King before you say it.

When you see my town flip at least consider the things I said today wrt strategy because now you know it’s coming from someone who’s trying to make town win.

I don’t want to CFD. It’s obvious I’m a guard so I’m as good as dead even if I don’t die.

I have spotty internet here and I didn’t expect this. Foxy is obvious town, I avoided making that read for fear of spewing me as not the king.

Foxy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 11:25 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 11:24 am [VOTE: Leetic] aubergine

Wanna explain?

I’m voting the person with the most votes to try to get a runaway wagon. He’s also in my PoE.

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:46 pm
Along with the reasons provided above, and the fact that she is obviously not King since I am making a scum case on her so it's not a waste even if she is voted out as scum wouldn't target her anyway, I believe that this is a fine elimination for the day.

This is exactly why we shouldn't be pushing and casing people to change who gets killed!

I'm not going to defend myself but I do like explaining game theory and strategy, so I'll do that and selectively respond to this case.

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:46 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 7:08 pm And that means if you are voted, just accept it instead of trying to defend yourself or convincing anyone not to vote you. Don't try to start a counterwagon for self pres either.

I take this post very seriously simply because it gives off "I don't know King" vibes. Because if you knew the King you'd also know that others know the King and as such, it's impossible to vote him out. King may very well be invincible here. This post alone deserves serious consideration on getting voted out.

The problem with defending yourself a lot is that it outs you as not the King. If you get piled on, make a ton of posts defending yourself, and everyone switched to another wagon then you'd just be outed as not the King because you had all that pressure on you and reacted to it like you thought you were going to die. So I'm actually posting that for guards, not the King.

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:46 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:06 am I'll also add that being an outed guard isn't that much better than being dead in this setup. If the assassins know not to shoot you, that's one person they can eliminate from their pool for the rest of the game. I think it's a little better than being dead because you can still help town with your vote and the assassins can still tinfoil you, but it sure isn't good.

I don't think that any guard would worry about that. This game relies on POE mainly from what I have figured, or even if it doesn't that's how I am playing it. Honestly, the more outed guards we have the better for us. I don't find this particulary scummy but I absolutely don't find this towny and that's worth noting down.

See my post above, I think you misunderstood me. Being outed as town is fine, being outed as guard but not king is bad.

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:46 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:09 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:07 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:06 am I'll also add that being an outed guard isn't that much better than being dead in this setup. If the assassins know not to shoot you, that's one person they can eliminate from their pool for the rest of the game. I think it's a little better than being dead because you can still help town with your vote and the assassins can still tinfoil you, but it sure isn't good.

Have you heard of POE?

Yeah and it's like the assassins are making a PoE of who's the king. They start with everyone and narrow it down based on how people interact with each other.

Same kinda vibe, feels a bit afraid of POE. This read honestly makes sense if we assume that some town are going to mess up hiding our King but uhh, I am playing with mindset that it's cool as long as I am not at fault.

Well I want to win the game so I want to stop townies that don't know the setup from making it obvious who the King is.

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:46 pm This is a post she made justifying her read on falcon. Which is fine. However, such simple reasoning isn't something that shouldn't inherently be used to find town and is definitely flawed in the sense that there a particular person doing exactly that but on steroids. Spoiler, it's me. Pretty sure others had similar or higher level of solving and prodding than falcon too.



*************


Exept for all this, no actual reads were made. The game was detached for her and no questioning was actually involved. She was fine with giving reads when asked but never cared to question anyone at all.

Along with the reasons provided above, and the fact that she is obviously not King since I am making a scum case on her so it's not a waste even if she is voted out as scum wouldn't target her anyway, I believe that this is a fine elimination for the day.

I wasn't exactly fine with giving reads which is why I was so cagey and limited my read on Falcon to just that he wasn't in my voting pool for today. You are also not in my voting pool for today.

I have a hard time not responding to people and have to go against my instinct to talk a lot and respond to every question this game.

We can talk after the game about my mindset. I have reads. I will use them to decide my vote. I just don't see the point in outing them.

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 4:22 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:06 am I'll also add that being an outed guard isn't that much better than being dead in this setup. If the assassins know not to shoot you, that's one person they can eliminate from their pool for the rest of the game. I think it's a little better than being dead because you can still help town with your vote and the assassins can still tinfoil you, but it sure isn't good.

How could a Guard get outed, though? I guess by leading a strong elimination against an Assassin. Probably one or two players could get cleared once that happens, but nothing is rock-solid, right?

For you and @Foxy

By outed guard, I meant outed as not the King. If you are taken out of the pool of people the assassins could shoot, it doesn't matter that much if you're taken out because you're dead or taken out because you were outed as not the King. You're still one fewer person that could be King.

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 12:44 pm I’m probably gonna end up playing this game like Avalon.

I had a realization this morning that the basis for initially placing random votes and/or giving as little information as possible is a level 0 hedge against those guards that would have a hard time keeping a secret, like my sister-in-law, who announced loudly at dinner one night with the in laws that my wife and I got a dog. We told you that in CONFIDENCE, Bridget. She ruined the surprise and we’ve never forgotten that because *someone* wanted the attention.

Well, I’m not a Bumbling Burton and am confident I can keep a secret and muddy the waters if need be.

Information is power, but if the court jester has information, what can you trust, really?

Yeah that's also why I made sure to post that strategy first thing so people wouldn't just come in making the king really obvious. I'm not quite as strict about not talking as I made it seem like in my first post (and I suspected my strategy wouldn't happen) but I wanted people to be careful about what info they give.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 2:41 pm

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 2:37 pm Also Miss, what are your opinions on just about everything?

I still have to read 100 posts to figure out things

I wish to spec the mentor game, seems interesting.

I might do that, mentor/mentee games seem interesting but I've never played one.

daisukenowaifuke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 12:58 pm Are games here normally like this? Very chill, very civil, very relaxed?

More often than games on most other places I play. They're not chill all the time but I like playing here in part because it's more relaxed than at MU or some other sites.

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 11:45 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 11:36 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 11:27 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 11:26 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:22 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:20 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:19 am

I am plenty sure that Dai and me indicated multiple times that this is our first encounter with this forum. Did it never cross your mind to warn the newbies of an obvious meta from potential enemy?

It's not something I have to warn people about.

Can you give me your best read on that player right now then? As you have meta, I'd love to see you giving that read. Also, feel free to mention any other players you can give a read on.

I know, this contradicts your "I don't want to talk tactic" but you should be aware that thread consensus is against it anyway so might as well cooperate. It's just a focus on one person, be it town or king.

Falcon feels ~fine to me now, don't want to vote there today. I'll probably wait until later in the day to decide my vote or voice any suspicions.

Any particular reason why he is fine?

I like that he's prodding and seems interested in solving the game.

Also no, I'm not familiar with Kr1ss. I play mostly here and on MU.

what is your MU id?

I have a few accounts, I used to just be known as Thunal33 there but I've played more as Spellblade recently. I mostly play turbos now.

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 11:27 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 11:26 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:22 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:20 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:19 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:17 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:15 am

Oh, IC. Why didn't you mention that before but only now?

He's entered with I AM TOWN! every game (regardless of alignment) for a long time so I forgot not everyone knew he did.

I am plenty sure that Dai and me indicated multiple times that this is our first encounter with this forum. Did it never cross your mind to warn the newbies of an obvious meta from potential enemy?

It's not something I have to warn people about.

Can you give me your best read on that player right now then? As you have meta, I'd love to see you giving that read. Also, feel free to mention any other players you can give a read on.

I know, this contradicts your "I don't want to talk tactic" but you should be aware that thread consensus is against it anyway so might as well cooperate. It's just a focus on one person, be it town or king.

Falcon feels ~fine to me now, don't want to vote there today. I'll probably wait until later in the day to decide my vote or voice any suspicions.

Any particular reason why he is fine?

I like that he's prodding and seems interested in solving the game.

Also no, I'm not familiar with Kr1ss. I play mostly here and on MU.

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:22 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:20 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:19 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:17 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:15 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:13 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:12 am

Are you saying that you have a trust tell? That kinda uhh, uncomfortable to deal with as either alignment as it just breaks the spirit of the game. And what does that have to do with the other person?

No, I can do it as mafia too. Falcon is known for saying I AM TOWN every game so I took his idea.

Oh, IC. Why didn't you mention that before but only now?

He's entered with I AM TOWN! every game (regardless of alignment) for a long time so I forgot not everyone knew he did.

I am plenty sure that Dai and me indicated multiple times that this is our first encounter with this forum. Did it never cross your mind to warn the newbies of an obvious meta from potential enemy?

It's not something I have to warn people about.

Can you give me your best read on that player right now then? As you have meta, I'd love to see you giving that read. Also, feel free to mention any other players you can give a read on.

I know, this contradicts your "I don't want to talk tactic" but you should be aware that thread consensus is against it anyway so might as well cooperate. It's just a focus on one person, be it town or king.

Falcon feels ~fine to me now, don't want to vote there today. I'll probably wait until later in the day to decide my vote or voice any suspicions.

daisukenowaifuke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 11:13 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 11:10 am

daisukenowaifuke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 11:07 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:56 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 12:01 am

daisukenowaifuke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:03 pm Very concerned about how Foxy keeps mentioning me. ToT Feels like he is buddying. And I don't understand his fixation on Thunal. So, I am voting him as my most sussed person atm. [VOTE: Foxy] aubergine

Scotty seems the most towny to me.

daisukenowaifuke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:05 pm Made it a tie to try and save His Majesty Long Con.

Interesting

These posts of @daisukenowaifuke are just...buggin' me

His Majesty Long Con and I are scum buddies, how did you know?

I don't



I don't often solve the game D1, it's pretty rare in fact

Same.

I only played one town game well. SKSKKS.

Would I know you or Foxy from anywhere?

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:19 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:17 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:15 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:13 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:12 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:10 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:08 am

Okay, this is interesting, elaborate

I get miskilled a lot in them and wanted to sound towny.

Are you saying that you have a trust tell? That kinda uhh, uncomfortable to deal with as either alignment as it just breaks the spirit of the game. And what does that have to do with the other person?

No, I can do it as mafia too. Falcon is known for saying I AM TOWN every game so I took his idea.

Oh, IC. Why didn't you mention that before but only now?

He's entered with I AM TOWN! every game (regardless of alignment) for a long time so I forgot not everyone knew he did.

I am plenty sure that Dai and me indicated multiple times that this is our first encounter with this forum. Did it never cross your mind to warn the newbies of an obvious meta from potential enemy?

It's not something I have to warn people about.

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:15 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:13 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:12 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:10 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:08 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:07 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:03 am

Then at the risk of redundancy, for which folks are often downsized, I AM TOWN!

I started entering my MU turbos with I AM TOWN! because of you.

Okay, this is interesting, elaborate

I get miskilled a lot in them and wanted to sound towny.

Are you saying that you have a trust tell? That kinda uhh, uncomfortable to deal with as either alignment as it just breaks the spirit of the game. And what does that have to do with the other person?

No, I can do it as mafia too. Falcon is known for saying I AM TOWN every game so I took his idea.

Oh, IC. Why didn't you mention that before but only now?

He's entered with I AM TOWN! every game (regardless of alignment) for a long time so I forgot not everyone knew he did.

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:12 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:10 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:08 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:07 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:03 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 6:17 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 6:51 pm

Did you not read my first post?

Sir, I want an answer not a question. I did read it.

Then at the risk of redundancy, for which folks are often downsized, I AM TOWN!

I started entering my MU turbos with I AM TOWN! because of you.

Okay, this is interesting, elaborate

I get miskilled a lot in them and wanted to sound towny.

Are you saying that you have a trust tell? That kinda uhh, uncomfortable to deal with as either alignment as it just breaks the spirit of the game. And what does that have to do with the other person?

No, I can do it as mafia too. Falcon is known for saying I AM TOWN every game so I took his idea.

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:08 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:07 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:03 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 6:17 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 6:51 pm

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 6:14 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 4:31 pm

How many Maf have you caught w/ this question?



I appreciate a direct approach, this technique could be a game changer

Glad that someone here appreciates it. What about you, are you scum?

Did you not read my first post?

Sir, I want an answer not a question. I did read it.

Then at the risk of redundancy, for which folks are often downsized, I AM TOWN!

I started entering my MU turbos with I AM TOWN! because of you.

Okay, this is interesting, elaborate

I get miskilled a lot in them and wanted to sound towny.

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:07 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:06 am I'll also add that being an outed guard isn't that much better than being dead in this setup. If the assassins know not to shoot you, that's one person they can eliminate from their pool for the rest of the game. I think it's a little better than being dead because you can still help town with your vote and the assassins can still tinfoil you, but it sure isn't good.

Have you heard of POE?

Yeah and it's like the assassins are making a PoE of who's the king. They start with everyone and narrow it down based on how people interact with each other.

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 6:27 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 6:05 pm

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 12:07 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 12:04 pm

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:52 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:50 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:41 am

I feel a bit bad now hahah but this is part of game, don't take any bad feelings. Btw, what was that avylon game you guys talked about? I never heard of it

No hard feelings, this isn’t the first time people have disagreed with the way I play and it’s not the first time people have scumread me for it. In response to one of your questions no, I’m not mafia.

And I’m actually trying to figure out the answers to some of your earlier questions because while my strategy is a good idea for 6 player AITP I kind of want to see how it translates to 13 player AITP and if it’s any different.

Just to check in, you don't feel uncomfortable with me engaging in this discussion more as I sure do have questions to ask?

I don’t think this discussion is too bad because it kind of continues what’s already there so idt we’re giving the assassins much new info. Giving lots of reads is what we have to be most careful of.

It looks like about a 70% chance town is able to kill both assassins before they reach parity if we eliminate by random (because I’m a nerd and felt like making a script for it). We can use the info we already have and any new info to increase that chance, but we’re already in a pretty good spot for eliminating both assassins. The assassins aren’t in such a good spot from the start, they have to get more info to be able to make good shots.

And Avalon does have a ranking system and sometimes tournaments but I’ve never played one.

0. I was asking if I was personally making you feel uncomfy hahah as you didn't seem engaging at the start. Glad that's not the case.
1. What makes you believe that eliminations will be random?
2. Can you show me the process behind the calculations?
3. Oh nice, I might check out the game.

No you're fine, I just had to think through if I wanted to engage.

1. I don't but it can be an okay baseline to get an idea of town's chances.

2. Open up Python and ask ChatGPT to write some code. My understanding is that it recursively computes probabilities until all the mafia are eliminated or mafia reach parity. Kind of similar to these calculations but not the same since this game has no night kills. https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... EV_Project

Trust me, I tried using chatgpt for school and projects. It's math is equal to a 5 year old kid's at times. Worst part is, it does well in disguising it but it in fact usually calculates wrong

I plugged some different numbers for town and mafia into it and the outputs seemed reasonable but yeah it is wrong sometimes. I've found it's better at coding than at math.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:03 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 6:17 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 6:51 pm

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 6:14 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 4:31 pm

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 9:05 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 7:06 pm Hi everyone!

This game is pretty different from mafia. In mafia you want to give a lot of info and in AITP you want to give as little info as possible.

If everyone talks a lot and gives read lists it will be super easy for the assassins to deduce who the king is just by looking at who nobody wants to kill.

But if don't talk and just collectively vote off the first person to get run up with votes each day, the assassins don't have much info to work with and can't make accurate shots. There is no night phase so we have guards to spare and losing a guard isn't a big deal.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 7:08 pm And that means if you are voted, just accept it instead of trying to defend yourself or convincing anyone not to vote you. Don't try to start a counterwagon for self pres either.

Hi Miss, may I kindly ask, are you mafia?

How many Maf have you caught w/ this question?



I appreciate a direct approach, this technique could be a game changer

Glad that someone here appreciates it. What about you, are you scum?

Did you not read my first post?

Sir, I want an answer not a question. I did read it.

Then at the risk of redundancy, for which folks are often downsized, I AM TOWN!

I started entering my MU turbos with I AM TOWN! because of you.

I'll also add that being an outed guard isn't that much better than being dead in this setup. If the assassins know not to shoot you, that's one person they can eliminate from their pool for the rest of the game. I think it's a little better than being dead because you can still help town with your vote and the assassins can still tinfoil you, but it sure isn't good.

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 12:07 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 12:04 pm

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:52 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:50 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:41 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:39 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:34 am

Miss, this is a game of deception. You are allowed to lie, buss, distance, ignore, power push. I don't think that giving minimal reads is a healthy environment for any game but if you do believe that's the best strategy, I can only respect that and if I don't like it, answer with a vote.

I’m not going to force you or anyone to play the same way I do.

I feel a bit bad now hahah but this is part of game, don't take any bad feelings. Btw, what was that avylon game you guys talked about? I never heard of it

No hard feelings, this isn’t the first time people have disagreed with the way I play and it’s not the first time people have scumread me for it. In response to one of your questions no, I’m not mafia.

And I’m actually trying to figure out the answers to some of your earlier questions because while my strategy is a good idea for 6 player AITP I kind of want to see how it translates to 13 player AITP and if it’s any different.

Just to check in, you don't feel uncomfortable with me engaging in this discussion more as I sure do have questions to ask?

I don’t think this discussion is too bad because it kind of continues what’s already there so idt we’re giving the assassins much new info. Giving lots of reads is what we have to be most careful of.

It looks like about a 70% chance town is able to kill both assassins before they reach parity if we eliminate by random (because I’m a nerd and felt like making a script for it). We can use the info we already have and any new info to increase that chance, but we’re already in a pretty good spot for eliminating both assassins. The assassins aren’t in such a good spot from the start, they have to get more info to be able to make good shots.

And Avalon does have a ranking system and sometimes tournaments but I’ve never played one.

0. I was asking if I was personally making you feel uncomfy hahah as you didn't seem engaging at the start. Glad that's not the case.
1. What makes you believe that eliminations will be random?
2. Can you show me the process behind the calculations?
3. Oh nice, I might check out the game.

No you're fine, I just had to think through if I wanted to engage.

1. I don't but it can be an okay baseline to get an idea of town's chances.

2. Open up Python and ask ChatGPT to write some code. My understanding is that it recursively computes probabilities until all the mafia are eliminated or mafia reach parity. Kind of similar to these calculations but not the same since this game has no night kills. https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... EV_Project

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 2:30 pm

daisukenowaifuke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 1:10 pm Not really sure how to make of Foxy's interest.

I feel like he could be scum probing for more intel to find the king.

I find Thunal's idea pretty good. Tho, I think we should be careful on how we make our "random" lynches, so they aren't so random. (I did try to backread previous AITP games, but that failed miserably as I got lazy.)

I also have ulterior motives in following their idea, because I came back from a long hiatus and I wanna do the bare minimum and chill.

Is it dangerous if we always have a tie vote between 2-3 players? Who that is shouldn’t matter, as the king will never be killed in a tie.

I realize that does allow for some weird switcheroos to possibly lop it onto the king, but I’m trying to avoid the following scenario:

We ‘randomly’ (whatever that means) pick the King as the yeet for the day. Everyone piles on, but we as guards can’t let that happen, thus it will expose the king. Right?

We just don't pick the king as the elim for the day and I don't think that should be hard.

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 12:07 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 12:04 pm

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:52 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:50 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:41 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:39 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:34 am

Miss, this is a game of deception. You are allowed to lie, buss, distance, ignore, power push. I don't think that giving minimal reads is a healthy environment for any game but if you do believe that's the best strategy, I can only respect that and if I don't like it, answer with a vote.

I’m not going to force you or anyone to play the same way I do.

I feel a bit bad now hahah but this is part of game, don't take any bad feelings. Btw, what was that avylon game you guys talked about? I never heard of it

No hard feelings, this isn’t the first time people have disagreed with the way I play and it’s not the first time people have scumread me for it. In response to one of your questions no, I’m not mafia.

And I’m actually trying to figure out the answers to some of your earlier questions because while my strategy is a good idea for 6 player AITP I kind of want to see how it translates to 13 player AITP and if it’s any different.

Just to check in, you don't feel uncomfortable with me engaging in this discussion more as I sure do have questions to ask?

I don’t think this discussion is too bad because it kind of continues what’s already there so idt we’re giving the assassins much new info. Giving lots of reads is what we have to be most careful of.

It looks like about a 70% chance town is able to kill both assassins before they reach parity if we eliminate by random (because I’m a nerd and felt like making a script for it). We can use the info we already have and any new info to increase that chance, but we’re already in a pretty good spot for eliminating both assassins. The assassins aren’t in such a good spot from the start, they have to get more info to be able to make good shots.

And Avalon does have a ranking system and sometimes tournaments but I’ve never played one.

0. I was asking if I was personally making you feel uncomfy hahah as you didn't seem engaging at the start. Glad that's not the case.
1. What makes you believe that eliminations will be random?
2. Can you show me the process behind the calculations?
3. Oh nice, I might check out the game.

Btw I’m marking this for later because I have non-mafia work to do.

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:53 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:51 am Oh and it’s called The Resistance: Avalon and it’s kind of similar to this game in that there’s one townie that has to hide from the mafia, but it also has missions instead of voting people out.

Interesting. Forum/Application on PC/phone? Competitive like Counter strike and similar or just casual without any real ranking?

It’s a website, proavalon.com. Some people take it pretty seriously and aren’t always nice so it’s probably best to start with spectating or unranked games before jumping in to ranked ones.

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:52 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:50 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:41 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:39 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:34 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:29 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:26 am
Aye miss, if we veto that strategy (most likely scenario so answer seriously) what best thing do you propose? From Wolf persepctive, I'd like to know. What do you believe is best to do as a wolf?

Probably just as close to it as you feel would still make a fun game. I don’t mind talking off topic for fun but I’ll personally give minimal info in terms of reads this game.

I’d say if you are outing reads, leave outing your reads to a small amount of scum reads and try not to state town reads or do full read lists.

I’m not going to help the wolves. :P

Miss, this is a game of deception. You are allowed to lie, buss, distance, ignore, power push. I don't think that giving minimal reads is a healthy environment for any game but if you do believe that's the best strategy, I can only respect that and if I don't like it, answer with a vote.

I’m not going to force you or anyone to play the same way I do.

I feel a bit bad now hahah but this is part of game, don't take any bad feelings. Btw, what was that avylon game you guys talked about? I never heard of it

No hard feelings, this isn’t the first time people have disagreed with the way I play and it’s not the first time people have scumread me for it. In response to one of your questions no, I’m not mafia.

And I’m actually trying to figure out the answers to some of your earlier questions because while my strategy is a good idea for 6 player AITP I kind of want to see how it translates to 13 player AITP and if it’s any different.

Just to check in, you don't feel uncomfortable with me engaging in this discussion more as I sure do have questions to ask?

I don’t think this discussion is too bad because it kind of continues what’s already there so idt we’re giving the assassins much new info. Giving lots of reads is what we have to be most careful of.

It looks like about a 70% chance town is able to kill both assassins before they reach parity if we eliminate by random (because I’m a nerd and felt like making a script for it). We can use the info we already have and any new info to increase that chance, but we’re already in a pretty good spot for eliminating both assassins. The assassins aren’t in such a good spot from the start, they have to get more info to be able to make good shots.

And Avalon does have a ranking system and sometimes tournaments but I’ve never played one.

Oh and it’s called The Resistance: Avalon and it’s kind of similar to this game in that there’s one townie that has to hide from the mafia, but it also has missions instead of voting people out.

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:41 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:39 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:34 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:29 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:26 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:24 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:14 am
I’m caught up

Hi Foxy! We haven’t met, I don’t think! You seem rip-roaring and ready to go, and it’s a tricky situation.

I read the link and the ‘optimal strategy’ proposed on that wiki.
My initial take is a strategy that “allows the town a distinct advantage and turns the game into little more than a lottery” sounds good for us, but if I wanted to play the lottery, I’d go throw a dollar in my garbage chute.

Further, this strategy of no info or reads is so antithetical to how I’ve ever play mafia, it might as well not be mafia.

So Resistance: Avalon is my favorite game. I’ve played probably about ~2000 games. The strat proposed here reminds me of the games where the first 3 missions immediately, triggering the assassin to kill Merlin, at, at minimum, a 33% chance to hit. If they miss Merlin, everyone shrugs and we maybe play again. If they shoot Merlin, it feels cheap, but we all shrug. Those games
aren’t distinctly fun or engaging for either party, in my experience.

So…I dunno. I want to still do stuff at a minimal capacity while also still sticking true to the philosophy of mafia and I’ve having trouble reckoning with that discrepancy

That’s really cool because I’m learning Avalon right now and the logic can be really complex. I’m playing online on proavalon.com and I’m enjoying it for the most part even though I make noob mistakes sometimes.

Aye miss, if we veto that strategy (most likely scenario so answer seriously) what best thing do you propose? From Wolf persepctive, I'd like to know. What do you believe is best to do as a wolf?

Probably just as close to it as you feel would still make a fun game. I don’t mind talking off topic for fun but I’ll personally give minimal info in terms of reads this game.

I’d say if you are outing reads, leave outing your reads to a small amount of scum reads and try not to state town reads or do full read lists.

I’m not going to help the wolves. :P

Miss, this is a game of deception. You are allowed to lie, buss, distance, ignore, power push. I don't think that giving minimal reads is a healthy environment for any game but if you do believe that's the best strategy, I can only respect that and if I don't like it, answer with a vote.

I’m not going to force you or anyone to play the same way I do.

I feel a bit bad now hahah but this is part of game, don't take any bad feelings. Btw, what was that avylon game you guys talked about? I never heard of it

No hard feelings, this isn’t the first time people have disagreed with the way I play and it’s not the first time people have scumread me for it. In response to one of your questions no, I’m not mafia.

And I’m actually trying to figure out the answers to some of your earlier questions because while my strategy is a good idea for 6 player AITP I kind of want to see how it translates to 13 player AITP and if it’s any different.

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:34 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:29 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:26 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:24 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:14 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:00 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:54 am
Unless you’re the king.

Hi, may I get your opinion on just about everything?

I’m caught up

Hi Foxy! We haven’t met, I don’t think! You seem rip-roaring and ready to go, and it’s a tricky situation.

I read the link and the ‘optimal strategy’ proposed on that wiki.
My initial take is a strategy that “allows the town a distinct advantage and turns the game into little more than a lottery” sounds good for us, but if I wanted to play the lottery, I’d go throw a dollar in my garbage chute.

Further, this strategy of no info or reads is so antithetical to how I’ve ever play mafia, it might as well not be mafia.

So Resistance: Avalon is my favorite game. I’ve played probably about ~2000 games. The strat proposed here reminds me of the games where the first 3 missions immediately, triggering the assassin to kill Merlin, at, at minimum, a 33% chance to hit. If they miss Merlin, everyone shrugs and we maybe play again. If they shoot Merlin, it feels cheap, but we all shrug. Those games
aren’t distinctly fun or engaging for either party, in my experience.

So…I dunno. I want to still do stuff at a minimal capacity while also still sticking true to the philosophy of mafia and I’ve having trouble reckoning with that discrepancy

That’s really cool because I’m learning Avalon right now and the logic can be really complex. I’m playing online on proavalon.com and I’m enjoying it for the most part even though I make noob mistakes sometimes.

Aye miss, if we veto that strategy (most likely scenario so answer seriously) what best thing do you propose? From Wolf persepctive, I'd like to know. What do you believe is best to do as a wolf?

Probably just as close to it as you feel would still make a fun game. I don’t mind talking off topic for fun but I’ll personally give minimal info in terms of reads this game.

I’d say if you are outing reads, leave outing your reads to a small amount of scum reads and try not to state town reads or do full read lists.

I’m not going to help the wolves. :P

Miss, this is a game of deception. You are allowed to lie, buss, distance, ignore, power push. I don't think that giving minimal reads is a healthy environment for any game but if you do believe that's the best strategy, I can only respect that and if I don't like it, answer with a vote.

I’m not going to force you or anyone to play the same way I do.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:31 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:24 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:14 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:00 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:54 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 7:08 pm And that means if you are voted, just accept it instead of trying to defend yourself or convincing anyone not to vote you. Don't try to start a counterwagon for self pres either.

Unless you’re the king.

Hi, may I get your opinion on just about everything?

I’m caught up

Hi Foxy! We haven’t met, I don’t think! You seem rip-roaring and ready to go, and it’s a tricky situation.

I read the link and the ‘optimal strategy’ proposed on that wiki.
My initial take is a strategy that “allows the town a distinct advantage and turns the game into little more than a lottery” sounds good for us, but if I wanted to play the lottery, I’d go throw a dollar in my garbage chute.

Further, this strategy of no info or reads is so antithetical to how I’ve ever play mafia, it might as well not be mafia.

So Resistance: Avalon is my favorite game. I’ve played probably about ~2000 games. The strat proposed here reminds me of the games where the first 3 missions immediately, triggering the assassin to kill Merlin, at, at minimum, a 33% chance to hit. If they miss Merlin, everyone shrugs and we maybe play again. If they shoot Merlin, it feels cheap, but we all shrug. Those games
aren’t distinctly fun or engaging for either party, in my experience.

So…I dunno. I want to still do stuff at a minimal capacity while also still sticking true to the philosophy of mafia and I’ve having trouble reckoning with that discrepancy

That’s really cool because I’m learning Avalon right now and the logic can be really complex. I’m playing online on proavalon.com and I’m enjoying it for the most part even though I make noob mistakes sometimes.

Nice! I started with online Avalon and that actually brought me here, to forum mafia

Don’t worry about feeling nooby. After about 100 games I was the best player on the planet. After 1000 games, I realized that I’m not all that good, and actually might more of a noob than I thought. And that’s ok! I just love introducing people to the game and being a part of the magic

Cool! Did you play on proavalon or somewhere else?

I have 52 games, plus a few back in 2021 on another account and I kept being surprised by how little I knew. I was like “finally, I get it!” a lot of times but then I miss something else.

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:26 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:24 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:14 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:00 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:54 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 7:08 pm And that means if you are voted, just accept it instead of trying to defend yourself or convincing anyone not to vote you. Don't try to start a counterwagon for self pres either.

Unless you’re the king.

Hi, may I get your opinion on just about everything?

I’m caught up

Hi Foxy! We haven’t met, I don’t think! You seem rip-roaring and ready to go, and it’s a tricky situation.

I read the link and the ‘optimal strategy’ proposed on that wiki.
My initial take is a strategy that “allows the town a distinct advantage and turns the game into little more than a lottery” sounds good for us, but if I wanted to play the lottery, I’d go throw a dollar in my garbage chute.

Further, this strategy of no info or reads is so antithetical to how I’ve ever play mafia, it might as well not be mafia.

So Resistance: Avalon is my favorite game. I’ve played probably about ~2000 games. The strat proposed here reminds me of the games where the first 3 missions immediately, triggering the assassin to kill Merlin, at, at minimum, a 33% chance to hit. If they miss Merlin, everyone shrugs and we maybe play again. If they shoot Merlin, it feels cheap, but we all shrug. Those games
aren’t distinctly fun or engaging for either party, in my experience.

So…I dunno. I want to still do stuff at a minimal capacity while also still sticking true to the philosophy of mafia and I’ve having trouble reckoning with that discrepancy

That’s really cool because I’m learning Avalon right now and the logic can be really complex. I’m playing online on proavalon.com and I’m enjoying it for the most part even though I make noob mistakes sometimes.

Aye miss, if we veto that strategy (most likely scenario so answer seriously) what best thing do you propose? From Wolf persepctive, I'd like to know. What do you believe is best to do as a wolf?

Probably just as close to it as you feel would still make a fun game. I don’t mind talking off topic for fun but I’ll personally give minimal info in terms of reads this game.

I’d say if you are outing reads, leave outing your reads to a small amount of scum reads and try not to state town reads or do full read lists.

I’m not going to help the wolves. :P

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:14 am

Foxy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 11:00 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2025 10:54 am

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 7:08 pm And that means if you are voted, just accept it instead of trying to defend yourself or convincing anyone not to vote you. Don't try to start a counterwagon for self pres either.

Unless you’re the king.

Hi, may I get your opinion on just about everything?

I’m caught up

Hi Foxy! We haven’t met, I don’t think! You seem rip-roaring and ready to go, and it’s a tricky situation.

I read the link and the ‘optimal strategy’ proposed on that wiki.
My initial take is a strategy that “allows the town a distinct advantage and turns the game into little more than a lottery” sounds good for us, but if I wanted to play the lottery, I’d go throw a dollar in my garbage chute.

Further, this strategy of no info or reads is so antithetical to how I’ve ever play mafia, it might as well not be mafia.

So Resistance: Avalon is my favorite game. I’ve played probably about ~2000 games. The strat proposed here reminds me of the games where the first 3 missions immediately, triggering the assassin to kill Merlin, at, at minimum, a 33% chance to hit. If they miss Merlin, everyone shrugs and we maybe play again. If they shoot Merlin, it feels cheap, but we all shrug. Those games
aren’t distinctly fun or engaging for either party, in my experience.

So…I dunno. I want to still do stuff at a minimal capacity while also still sticking true to the philosophy of mafia and I’ve having trouble reckoning with that discrepancy

That’s really cool because I’m learning Avalon right now and the logic can be really complex. I’m playing online on proavalon.com and I’m enjoying it for the most part even though I make noob mistakes sometimes.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 7:24 pm Well. Two way ties would be bad, but a 16 way tie could work? Especially with no NKs?

If it were a 13 way tie the king could get killed, and assassins might end up directing the vote. Imo we should try to only have one wagon at EoD.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 7:17 pm Ok I picked “Other” and am writing in Galadriel <3

So @Thunal33 yeah I figured read lists were bad (yay I still feel like I’m target painting naming town reads).

In addition, based on the rules, pushing a tie would have to be a really bad look.

Kind of? If there are already two wagons imo it's fine to use your judgment to decide which one is better, but ideally there shouldn't be two wagons.

@Long Con I get that random voting isn't fun but it won't be truly random, there will be some info because people will discuss strategy and not follow it flawlessly.

Here's some info about the setup and I've both played and run it before (although a smaller version). https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... the_Palace

In fact part of the reason I chose to play this was because I knew it would be a really low time commitment lol.

Foxy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2025 7:10 pm Votes aren't allowed day1? Lemme try. [*vote]Thunal33[*/vote]

Is this how you do it?

Welcome!

It is (minus the stars), but you also have to vote in the poll at the top of the page. When day 1 starts the poll will have player names on it.

And that means if you are voted, just accept it instead of trying to defend yourself or convincing anyone not to vote you. Don't try to start a counterwagon for self pres either.

Hi everyone!

This game is pretty different from mafia. In mafia you want to give a lot of info and in AITP you want to give as little info as possible.

If everyone talks a lot and gives read lists it will be super easy for the assassins to deduce who the king is just by looking at who nobody wants to kill.

But if don't talk and just collectively vote off the first person to get run up with votes each day, the assassins don't have much info to work with and can't make accurate shots. There is no night phase so we have guards to spare and losing a guard isn't a big deal.