Pyre Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Sloonei]

If someone can explain to me why dunya and sloonei are villagers, lemme hear it

having lots of posts doesnt make someone a villager

This is not an unfair question to ask, but I think it's also important to ask yourself the inverse: why are we not villagers? Obviously not my place to answer this about myself, but

I can say things about dunya though. I lean town on her, but I am not as confident about that as she seems to be about me. For context, dunya and I have known each other and played mafia together for years and years, long before either of us even came to the Syndicate. She's also famous around these parts for having great intuition, and I'd say that is especially true for players she is deeply familiar with. Me and Mac are the two she's known the longest on our current roster. I'm not just saying that because it's good look for me. In fact, when I say it I am fully acknowledging that a mafia dunya could very easily exploit the implicit trust that would come with her track record by town reading me the entire game. I do not actually have a clear sense of dunya ins this game yet, but I appreciate that she has been in my corner at moments when I have faced pressure. I'll have a clearer idea of her (along with everyone else) before the end of this day phase, I hope.

[Long Con]

dunya reacted to my Sloonei vote buy spending Sol, which she revealed earlier today. That either sounds pretty villagery, or it's a creative lie to tell as a wolf. I lean to the former.

[Sloonei]

dunya reacted to my Sloonei vote buy spending Sol, which she revealed earlier today. That either sounds pretty villagery, or it's a creative lie to tell as a wolf. I lean to the former.

she did what now?

[bronana]

If someone can explain to me why dunya and sloonei are villagers, lemme hear it

having lots of posts doesnt make someone a villager

This is not an unfair question to ask, but I think it's also important to ask yourself the inverse: why are we not villagers? Obviously not my place to answer this about myself, but

Because your tone has seemed a bit wolfy to me, you've pushed villagers, and defended the only flipped wolf for days for reasons I never could quite grasp as I was practically begging people to yeet them. I don't think this is unreasonable on my part.

dunya has not left much impression on me before today despite the amount of posts, and the way they defended you by saying you would have distanced from marcher starting on d1 combined with her posts nudging people towards LC/Mac struck me the wrong way, like it was possibly a wolf trying to steer the thread back on a more favorable course. I am not really sure why she got so mad at me tbh

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

If someone can explain to me why dunya and sloonei are villagers, lemme hear it

having lots of posts doesnt make someone a villager

I’ve been told that only villagers try

[bronana]

I'd urge any villagers who haven't been bothering with mechanics to take a look at the rules and the slugmarket.

[nutella]

dunya reacted to my Sloonei vote buy spending Sol, which she revealed earlier today. That either sounds pretty villagery, or it's a creative lie to tell as a wolf. I lean to the former.

what are you talking about?

[Long Con]

This:

What does every one think of LC/Mac partnership WITH Marcher. Or mostly LC?

long con is probably a wolf

i have... significant issues with mac, but i think at that eod long con's hop on and then backtrack is wolfier than what mac was doing

I feel bad about LC on the eod. It felt like he was pushing towns buttons, taunting us a little.

Also he made me lose sols I was saving. Chaotic -_-

[Sloonei]

Marcher & Bronana

Spoiler: show

ted: scum
bronana: town

Why? x2

ted started out just reading the thread, meming with a few gifs at stuff, and peacing out. Then there was a brief period where ted was doing stuff. now ted's just tunneling me for bad reasons and is ignoring anything else. no one really wants to vote out the tunneler. they'll just say "oh it's town but wrong" and if he gets his way and I flip they're more likely to look at the bandwagoners than at ted himself. It's an easy strategy that'll end up with ted spewing nothing, avoiding talking about half the game, and safely getting through probably at least the first 2 days with limited suspicion.

bronana: like the questions he's asking, they're ones I would have asked ones I wish I would have asked

First stance comes when I ask Marcher directly to give a read. The size disparity between the ted read and the bronana read is the slightest point if I really try to pick something out here, but I'm not remotely inspired by that. I have an easier time reading this as a half-hearted town read because Marcher can't be bothered to think of anything more inspired to say about a player.

Spoiler: show

Don’t want a carote banish today. If people want to do something silly don’t do it there.

why not

Because carotte is one of my stronger townreads rn and I’ve been burned enough for not speaking up for my town.

well, duh.

i mean why are they town?

Because I caught them thinking of and asking the exact same questions I wanted to ask at the same time. Like it’s no lock but it’s matching mindsets and puts her above like 80% of tne game.

It’s halfway a gut read but my gut’s been right before and I don’t want to ignore it this time.

Good look for the bnana. The fact that he needs to ask his question twice to get a satisfactory answer, and that Marcher went back to tack on an addendum (which seems to have just been a habit of Marcher's, to be fair) suggests to me that this was in no way a staged interaction. Marcher didn't seem to immediately know how to respond at first, and the follow-up response suggests a bit of nervousness.

Spoiler: show

looked at a town and wolf game from marcher on cfc. They did the endless questions thing in the wolf game that they've been criticized for here, while the town game seemed to not have that at all, much more direct.

i'm totally trustworthy, but if you want to double check my work:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ ... ry.657987/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ ... ry.659154/

consider: This is literally my second ever normalish game as town. maybe the reason I sound different is because I am different?

An even better look. Bronana took the initiative to dig up Marcher's past games on their home site and then used that to spark a new and unique case against them. To make matters even better, Marcher responded with a somewhat biting (and in retrospect, perhaps a bit dejected) comeback. Marcher looks to be genuinely bothered by bronana's detective work. That doesn't happen if they're partners.

Spoiler: show

if it's really just that you mindmelded with carotte about tony then.... ok but I still don't get why you're so over the top about this

Like seriously if y'all are so down to use meta take the whole thing and don't just bother picking out the pieces that support your push. At least bronana and Lissa bothered looking.

start here, around page bottom: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ ... 7/page-108

Incidental mention. Nothin' here.

Spoiler: show

Like seriously bronana just tried a hard push on my case overnight, how the F is tedxtr's response "I want Zack to make a readslist and go in depth on reads"

This

is... a weird quasi-defense? It may be more of an anti-ted post than a pro-nana post. But it's the first time I've raised an eyebrow during this exercise.

Spoiler: show

did I mess up somewhere? Am I seen as useful now for some reason?

I think you're useful, yes!

meant in reference to being a tool that helps advance mafia wincon

Yes I know. But if you're a civilian then your voice is a good one to have.

Who has stopped suspecting you?

I mean it's not quite not "stopping suspicion" but bronana acted like he had a slam dunk case on me last night and is now on nutella. Lissa's on Soneji now, as is TSP. KZA I don't think has even voted yet today?

Some very slight shade when I asked Marcher to name names. Bronana was the first named name, but then they list several others and quickly go back to calling bronana town:

Spoiler: show

town
carotenoid

townlean
bronana
kza
moth
nanook
nutella
tedxtr

null
drwilgy
dunya
Long Con
MacDougall
motobot
outed wolf
Sloonei
Soneji
TonyStarkPrime

wolflean
lissa
TurnipHead

Spoiler: show

I wanna town read Dunya for wanting to hand town reads like candy in this game state, because it comes from the PoV of a villager that wants to advance the game in some sort of way if that makes sense

the timing of it is better than the actual action

stop making good posts that's illegal

If I asked you to summarize your outlook on the state of this game right now in 250-500 words, what would you say?

You should also upload your resume with a cover letter.

today feels a lot better than yesterday. like things and solving are actually happening and town is finding town and working out and comparing their PoEs rather than everyone trying to chase down their own lead. good vibes. I'm a bit afraid we might be missing something right now and I'm getting pocketed by someone, but eh better to focus on chasing down the shallower wolves first and working off of a flip.

Which players have been the most noteworthy in this sudden uptick of game-solving? Where does your discomfort about potential pocketing stem from? Can you name names again? What might we be missing? Feel free to just vomit words, I don't care about (or even necessarily want) fully developed thoughts on this.

good new stuff: tedx's today right now feels so much better than his yesterday. You sticking out notes to compare on KZA and the talk about why KZA in general
potential pockets: you and dunya, primarily. You did a kinda white-knighty thing when you said you liked the way I posted and thought it reminded you of yourself yesterday when ted was focusing me and ted called you (and zack) out on it. Your playstyle vibe thus far has felt kinda procedural? Like not necessarily bad, just very measured and by the book and easily replicatable as either alignment. Dunya is a few things. Like her early posts on d1 felt a bit dunya.exe (though that might be just a multitabling thing) and her sheep onto radishes and eod in general feels kinda ehhhh. d2 feels fine and actually feels good vibes but I know she's a good player and has nothing really clearing her and stepping between a tvt tunnel and saying "I think you're both town" is a classic move for cred

other fears/missing things—Long Con read, which I don't get but is just kinda accepted without challenge. Just generally being with good players who aren't out of wolf range like zack or visor. Lissa town reads.

ugh im gonna have to quote an analyze this post like 18 times before this exercise is done. This is one reason why I normally just do one comprehensive ISO of the flipped wolf, but I have a lot of names to get through and jay's not here to split the load with me. Anyway, Marcher barely mentions bronana at all in this post. He gets an incidental mention in the top paragraph, then gets an obligatory "not out of wolf range" comment with no further comment. That's uninspiring.

Spoiler: show

Marcher do you ever plan on actually elaborating on how I’ve just been “making vaguely good sounding posts and sheeping zack”?

It feels pretty self-evident to me. Like you’ve collected several townreads for “sounding reasonable” which doesn’t actually mean anything. Gou are sheeping zack because you are sheeping zack. Like legit just look at the vote movement. Followed onto me, followed onto sloonei, probably gonna follow back onto me right now.

"Lissa is sheeping Zack" is more a stance on Lissa than the nana. In fact, it is distinctly not a comment on bronana. But for some arbitrary reason I feel like Mafia #1 doesn't go out of their way to accuse A Civilian of sheeping Mafia #2. There's no reason that can't happen, off the top of my head, but it just doesn't feel right. Ultimately this just seems like a low-hanging accusation for Marcher to latch onto.

Spoiler: show

#1983 She’s saying she thought we were masonry, which Marcher Jovian thought comes only from town but I think bronana mentioned this first, so she might have just picked that up from him and scramble something like that. Anyway, conclusion is she’s confident I’m a wolf

I don't think I ever mentioned masons as a possibility

interesting MJ thought it was towny of nutella, do you have a link? I specifically remember the one time I made a "masonry" read in the thread on two people who were inexplicably townreading each other was when I was a wolf, and I was worried that I'd slipped that i knew both were villagers

It wasn’t even a masonry read, it was “these people are being really weird about each other and I think they’re softing masons so I want to implicate that I get that and am backing away” then immediately coming clean and admitting the plan the moment she got results.

I am familiar with the event that's being talked about, but I don't understand what Marcher is saying. I cannot do much with this exchange.

Spoiler: show

town
carotenoid-just mindmelding multiple times and being on the exact same page, grace and continued solviness even under pressure, just the clear lack of tmi

townlean
bronana-literally went to another site and iso’d me to look at my meta. What kind of wolf does that?
kza-sheeping dead MR and just trying to see world from a perspective of KZA town
moth-blatant meta differences, out of scumrange
nanook-enough people have said “yeah this is par for the course for Nanook meta, lock town” that I don’t think it’s a mafia ploy
nutella-masonry thing
tedxtr-showed that second gear of thinking about the game that’s pretty much impossible for scum to reach, cuz they already have all the answers

Hard town read. Okay.

Spoiler: show

So I'm like 15 pages behind, and I suppose I still haven't seen nor understand the MJ wagon. Is this something I can be pointed to cleanly?

Tedxtr—has been tunneling me all game over an alleged tmi slip
Bronana—checked my meta and thought I matched the scum more than town meta
outed wolf—sheeping bronana
dunya—disliked how many nulls in my readslist, esp in context of how I treated Lissa yesterday

Basically the same comment as before, but here I want to reflect on this a bit more. Marcher has twice now talked about bronana taking the initiative to read their homesite games to inform his own read in this game, and both times they seemed to do so with a favorable slant on bronana (the first instance is overtly favorable, the second less so). There could possibly be room to read this as teammates, in that Marcher is making a quick leap not to condemn bronana for A Thing. But I am not compelled by that, and would be much more interested in going the other way: Marcher feels like they've been caught by bronana and are trying to downplay it by treading softly around it, acknowledging that the read exists and giving bronana props for checking it out to avoid drawing his scrutiny any further (if so, that plan backfired as I recall, but I'll get to that later). So I'll lean towards this being yet another good look for bronana. I might just call it and move on soon, actually, because there's a few distinct things I remember from bronana that also scream NOT TEAMMATES, to say nothing of the general town read I have on him. I'll march (heh) on for now.

Spoiler: show

why would a wolf ever claim the way turnip did

To have cover for when they don't instantly die to the nk

Bronana Gives Marcher the Business

Spoiler: show

“Wilgy’s being defended by mafia. No one’s really defending him” is the kind of sentence formation that isn’t necessarily scummy, but it makes so little sense that I have trouble seeing it as an organic thought process.

this is dumb

can you explain it?

I agree that the way it reads is mostly nonsensical

english is dumb and for some reason we don't have different words for like shielded/guarded? that don't serve double duty as being about like direct defense and protection

More of the same.

Spoiler: show

d2 wagons: notably tedxtr and Lissa were on the counterwagon both times
(yet more evidence for Lissa wolf btw)

.....wat


confusednickyoung.gif

because wolves in control. Lissa's showing tmi by always staying on the counterwagon

I-

what

also how is voting the counterwagon who marcher strongly townreads "wolfy tmi"?

that only makes sense if they're accusing you of bussing or am i wrong

it means wolves decided who'd be doing the dirty work of yeeting villagers

Sloonei voted the wrong wagon every single time

You literally just called lissa a wolf for NOT doing that.

perfect accuracy/inaccuracy is wolfy. villagers are messy and sometimes wrong/sometimes right with more mixed results

I can almost hear bronana's eyes rolling as Marcher engages in their silliness last night. These are not partners. I've decided I am going to skip the other side of this interaction, for now at least, in the interest of time/energy.

tl;dr - Bronana - He was one of the most vocal advocates for removing Marcher, and he did so in such a way that looked authentic and highly uncalled for if they are partners. The level of not-putting-up-with Marcher's hijinks at the end of Day 3 is high. Some of Marcher's responses to/about bronana feel hasty and a bit nervous. If I really try to read bronana as scum here, the only feasible angle would be that Marcher took one or two half-hearted swipes at him but otherwise looked at him with glowing praise. I'm more inclined to read that as a cornered wolf who was hoping to appease their most vocal opponent.

[Sloonei]

Note for the newcomers: I don't expect or really even want people to read all of that. It's mostly there for reference. I can put the full posts in spoilers as I move forward if that makes the pages easier to look at.

[bronana]

Note for the newcomers: I don't expect or really even want people to read all of that. It's mostly there for reference. I can put the full posts in spoilers as I move forward if that makes the pages easier to look at.

I think it's fine fwiw, spoilering the whole thing might just leave it to get buried. just do your thing how you're comfortable imo

I was a little skeptical that you did such an in-depth look at me when it should be obvious i'm not aligned with marcher, but i guess you're just being comprehensive and I am first alphabetically s ofair enough.

(Sidenote: saying "I'm first alphabetically" was a strange feeling, so used to being last!)

(Second sidenote: was finally able to watch hamilton, thoroughly enjoyed it!)

[Sloonei]

Note for the newcomers: I don't expect or really even want people to read all of that. It's mostly there for reference. I can put the full posts in spoilers as I move forward if that makes the pages easier to look at.

I think it's fine fwiw, spoilering the whole thing might just leave it to get buried. just do your thing how you're comfortable imo

I was a little skeptical that you did such an in-depth look at me when it should be obvious i'm not aligned with marcher, but i guess you're just being comprehensive and I am first alphabetically s ofair enough.

(Sidenote: saying "I'm first alphabetically" was a strange feeling, so used to being last!)

(Second sidenote: was finally able to watch hamilton, thoroughly enjoyed it!)

Yeah, I'm doing this for everyone. You just came first.

As a fellow Zac(h/k), I know the feeling.

[bronana]

Note for the newcomers: I don't expect or really even want people to read all of that. It's mostly there for reference. I can put the full posts in spoilers as I move forward if that makes the pages easier to look at.

I think it's fine fwiw, spoilering the whole thing might just leave it to get buried. just do your thing how you're comfortable imo

I was a little skeptical that you did such an in-depth look at me when it should be obvious i'm not aligned with marcher, but i guess you're just being comprehensive and I am first alphabetically s ofair enough.

(Sidenote: saying "I'm first alphabetically" was a strange feeling, so used to being last!)

(Second sidenote: was finally able to watch hamilton, thoroughly enjoyed it!)

Yeah, I'm doing this for everyone. You just came first.

As a fellow Zac(h/k), I know the feeling.

dude ... hosts on cfc used to send role PMs out in alphabetical order all the time. Drove me insane lol.

[Carotenoid]

Marcher Jovian - DrWilgy interactions
D0 + D1
From DrWilgy's side

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

KZA I think you’re town and I think you’re right on Jovian, but thread’s not having it because apparently I misrepped him or something

Who else?

Gonna ISO Bronana and let you know

Interested in seeing what Wilgy concludes about me

I conclude that ISO ing you was a good starting point but none of your takes have any weight behind them.

I'm going down the Jovian, Moth, Tutu and TSP holes now.

--> We never had retroaction on that Marcher Jovian ISO
--> The comment after KZA's ISO independently looks bad

What's the case and reason for voting Caro?

What's the case and reason for voting Jovian?

Hmn not much to read into but "case and reason" seems a bit... Demanding to ask for 15 minutes before EoD 1 when you've been absent.

From Marcher Jovian's side

Spoiler: show

It's pretty much just a placeholder vote. I don't intend to be voting him by the end of the day.

Why are you doing a placeholder vote?

Mostly shits and giggles, I guess. It would be nice if dr. Wilgy would comment on it. Maybe if someone tried to take it seriously and build on it, we could infer more about their alignment?

If you had a dayvig right now, that you had to use immediately, who would you use it on?

Long Con placeholder vote here is DrWilgy. Marcher Jovian questions him about it, his answer kinda ends in a desire to have an actual discussion about DrWilgy's alignment but Marcher Jovian kinda just brush it off with another question.

And that's literally it. At EoD, Marcher Jovian did their obscure "don't vote Carotte" blabla and didn't mention the other wagons. I asked them if they wanted to self-pres on DrWilgy here and never had an answer. To be fair, maybe they just really never saw the post but eh. When they voted Master Radishes for self-pres, Master Radishes was a bit ahead in the poll but DrWilgy had no quickness.

--> Not much concrete talk of each other, which I think is not a super good look when they're both wagons.

N1 + D2
From DrWilgy's side

Spoiler: show

@DrWilgy why are you on TSP?

Doesn't feel like town TSP. The ISO is garbo.

--> If DrWilgy flips wolf I don't think TonyStarkPrime is one, it's a common suspect.

I’m not thrilled by the prospect of banishing wilgy.
I would still lean town on Marcher Jovian, though I feel like their current assessment of the game is underwhelming (I am allergic to null reads).

Let’s all talk some more about outed wolf. He’s been a suspect without there really being an in depth discussion about him at any point that I’ve noticed. I meant to ISO him earlier, but then my stomach decided to be uncooperative all day.

What makes them a suspect? I do like their vote for TSP.

nvm, Outed is a coward and changed their vote.

I still think tsp is underwhelming but nobody else wants to vote on him and I said I'd vote with bronana

I may not be there yet. Why are you voting with Bronana?

[insert lolz pre-flip association]

From Marcher Jovian's side

Spoiler: show

#2969 is the readlist with lots of null and DrWilgy is one of them.
#2983 he's in the "lower null" for not doing things

[VOTE: DrWilgy ] aubergine

why are you voting not me?

I think the goal of this post was just to shade tedxtr, I don't ready anything about DrWilgy's alignment

Are we really gonna lynch wilgy today if he's town we learn nothing

I N F O Y E E T

Soft-ish memey defence of DrWilgy

dr wilgy isn't saving himself by voting for MJ, what does that tell you dr wilgy voters?

Dunya has a vendetta against me.

Perhaps it means I'm around and don't feel the need to save myself just yet and would rather hunt?

it was a point in your favor, not against tbh

tbf with such messy wagons I’m not sure how applicable that read is rn

I'm not sure I totally get what they're meaning but it kinda looks like trying to not be linked together.

So I'm like 15 pages behind, and I suppose I still haven't seen nor understand the MJ wagon. Is this something I can be pointed to cleanly?

Tedxtr—has been tunneling me all game over an alleged tmi slip
Bronana—checked my meta and thought I matched the scum more than town meta
outed wolf—sheeping bronana
dunya—disliked how many nulls in my readslist, esp in context of how I treated Lissa yesterday

Hmn. This happened. It seems like DrWilgy didn't actually go through Marcher Jovian's ISO hmnn.
So apparently DrWilgy's town meta is to look at game through ISO (and he also said he would do it at EoD1) but I refuse to believe that he actually did it for Marcher Jovian and missed the argument with tedxtr. Not a good look.

--> They have a common suspect (TonyStarkPrime, though Marcher Jovian has put him in the null list at this point) but don't really discuss him.
--> They're not really having thoughts on each other. DrWilgy's approach has been to look at the persons who voted him, but at the same time he's like completely ignoring the general wagonomic dynamic and the Marcher Jovian situation.

N2 + D3
From DrWilgy's side

Spoiler: show

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME you should also be doing more things
@TonyStarkPrime you as well

I’m happy with the things I’m doing, thanks for the concern tho

[VOTE: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME] aubergine

Only a wolf is satisfied with the way this game is going. [VOTE: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME] aubergine

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSME not w if DrWilgy is

Spoiler: show

bizarre that people fixate someone who has made 212 posts in this game, but motobot gets zero attention, macdougall (and nanook) has done somehow even less than me, TSP has done practically less than macdougall, longcon has actively avoided doing nothing, wilgy only decided to start playing at eod

is it just because i have made lots of posts that i stick in people's minds?

because fmpov there are plenty of people skating completely under the radar

Motobot will get culled when the time comes. What do we actively get out of lynching him right now?

I'm starting to think we are seeing town Mac.

Nanook will get culled when the time comes.

TSP I would be down for, but I thought he was on board with lynching you as well so I'm trying to figure out between you two. I don't know if there's a world where you are on the same team.

I don't know how to read LC. I feel like I always struggle here. Part of me speculates that his read on me may come from him knowing but that's just tinfoil.

Sir, do we need to have this talk again?

Now, what about the other slankers? KZA only has 2 pages, Soneji/cayvie still have very few posts.

what is your take on marcher jovian?

Conflicting.

Missed the reason why they were sus'd bad in the first place day 1, but I haven't read their posts as being non-genuine since. Sloonei's read of MJ is also factoring in here as I'm finding that I just mostly agree with it.

Even re-reading MJ's callout of TH's claim and following discussion and trying to break down both possible voices left me feeling it's a civ voice.

This is contrast to voting patterns though. Part of me is starting to think that MJ keeps getting saved with me and others on the back burner. Reading MJ as a civ voice is the only think keeping me from pursuing this harder.

SO, would I be opposed to MJ being banished, no... Would I prefer someone else, yes.

This first reads as a townread, then a tentative wagonomics scumread and then the end is kinda conceding a Marcher Jovian banish would be good.

@DrWilgy which version of my Marcher read do you agree with? I feel like it’s changed 15 times in the last 48 hours.

The town one. I've seen you voice that there are reasons for voting him recently and that your read is fluid, but don't think I've seen you call him scum directly. The way I had read your posts, it almost seems that you were wanting to understand the MJ wagon to better solidify your own stance or to figure out the answer to 'What if I'm wrong?'

Now, I could've extrapolated incorrectly, but that's why I was disappointed in your response to my line of questioning regarding your sense of correctness of read.

Points to him thinking Marcher Jovian v.

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

What are your thoughts regarding the shift from wagons forming on you to wagons on me? Why is this happening if you are civ? Twice now you are the third where I get put ahead of you and behind someone else.

This is weird

Why are people voting Lissa?

Marcher Jovian and DrWilgy both said they could vote the other, but neither of them did... Hmmmn.

Please define that Hmmm? Would you say that my reasoning is invalid?

I read this as a defence of him not voting Marcher Jovian. He previously pointed to townreading Marcher Jovian and reading back I don't think he actually said he could vote them, he said he wouldn't be opposed to a MJ banish, which is not exactly the same thing and he does not correct me and does not shows that he's still thinking about their alignment.

Spoiler: show

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

What are your thoughts regarding the shift from wagons forming on you to wagons on me? Why is this happening if you are civ? Twice now you are the third where I get put ahead of you and behind someone else.

Because I've had a mix of people either defending me or at least calling me null but with potential, while you've done basically nothing of consequence all game. When push comes to shove, the second wagon will go further than the first.

The hell does this mean?

This:

Spoiler: show

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

What are your thoughts regarding the shift from wagons forming on you to wagons on me? Why is this happening if you are civ? Twice now you are the third where I get put ahead of you and behind someone else.

Because I've had a mix of people either defending me or at least calling me null but with potential, while you've done basically nothing of consequence all game. When push comes to shove, the second wagon will go further than the first.

The hell does this mean?

It means I do not remember anything you've done

Followed by this:

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Fine I'll stop talking and let you go do things

Is scummy as hell.

Poof Marcher Jovian is now an evident wolf!!!

As much as I hate pre-flip associations, I am feeling a marcher/wilgy connection, actually.

Where does this one derive from?

This happened *shrug*

Spoiler: show

Let's talk about Marcher's flip from Lissa to me:

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

RED Flag. Is Jovian looking for reasons to sus me?

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

What are your thoughts regarding the shift from wagons forming on you to wagons on me? Why is this happening if you are civ? Twice now you are the third where I get put ahead of you and behind someone else.

Because I've had a mix of people either defending me or at least calling me null but with potential, while you've done basically nothing of consequence all game. When push comes to shove, the second wagon will go further than the first.

Then can't find a reason and throws out the same dumb thing I've been fighting all game. I have plenty of posts and have made plenty of pushes. This suspicion is empty.

Why are people voting Lissa?

Marcher Jovian and DrWilgy both said they could vote the other, but neither of them did... Hmmmn.

Because if I move my vote the Lissa wagon goes away

Then argues against voting me because voting Lissa is more important.

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

What are your thoughts regarding the shift from wagons forming on you to wagons on me? Why is this happening if you are civ? Twice now you are the third where I get put ahead of you and behind someone else.

Because I've had a mix of people either defending me or at least calling me null but with potential, while you've done basically nothing of consequence all game. When push comes to shove, the second wagon will go further than the first.

The hell does this mean?

It means I do not remember anything you've done

Because they aren't hunting.

Like you've said words and stuff, but you haven't done like any pushes or interrogations or stepped into tunnels or anything

You haven't tried to get someone to consensus town, you haven't tried to stop a yeet

Bullshit. They aren't hunting.

Like you've done jack to advance gamestate

Yes, because this is my sole responsibility.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Fine I'll stop talking and let you go do things

And the vote.

Lynch them.

Another intense "look MJ is wolf" that really contrasts with their initial stance (posts being villagery but votes pointing to them being maybe "saved")

wigly many words. pls summerize case so I know what to argue against

Your vote for me was fake and forced. You have no suspicion on me, but you didn't even try to claim self pres. You looked for a reason, found a shite one and used it.

At this point I wanna say it really looks like distancing.

Then there's a few posts in the same line and a few posts where DrWilgy says Sloonei and me are teammates for setting him up for a misbanish.

From Marche Jovian's side

Spoiler: show

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

This has been mentioned before:
"probably being defended by mafia"
" no one's really defending him"
Their stance is unclear.

Why are people voting Lissa?

Marcher Jovian and DrWilgy both said they could vote the other, but neither of them did... Hmmmn.

Because if I move my vote the Lissa wagon goes away

They're also defending their current vote and not showing doubt when in their previous posts they were not sure on DrWilgy's alignement. Hmmmmmmmn. DrWilgy also did that, they were both unsure about the other but then answered this in a way that implied they totally would. They also both felt the need to answer and defend themselves when it's not really a question...

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Fine I'll stop talking and let you go do things

I think Marcher Jovian felt at this moment that he probably wouldn't escape it this time. They not pushing agains't DrWilgy to self-pres though.

“Wilgy’s being defended by mafia. No one’s really defending him” is the kind of sentence formation that isn’t necessarily scummy, but it makes so little sense that I have trouble seeing it as an organic thought process.

this is dumb

can you explain it?

I agree that the way it reads is mostly nonsensical

english is dumb and for some reason we don't have different words for like shielded/guarded? that don't serve double duty as being about like direct defense and protection

Like I guess ?protected? is the closest word to the connotation I was looking for?

DrWilgy is being ?protected? by mafia.

Master Radishes
7
32%


Voters: nutella, Turnip Head, dunya, DrWilgy, Marcher Jovian, tutuu, Sloonei

this was the yeet. nutella probs town, TH town, dunya meh leand town, Wilgy self pres, me, tuutuu town, Sloonei

weird thing here is that maf killed in the MR and Carote wagons -- mine and Wilgy's wagon's weren't hit (though ted was pushing both of us)

This makes me feel better about looking at closer at the Carote wagon

*look the people voting my wagon*

Then there's a lot of other posts but it's probs anti-spew mode

Spoiler: show

and I want to sleep so I'm done

so hmn whatever.

--> At SoD they're both unsure of the other's alignment
--> When it is wondered why they're not voting each other they both imply they would without problem and defend their current vote
--> DrWilgy suddenly starts to point scummy things from Marcher Jovian's posts towards EoD

Conclusion
[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

[Carotenoid]

omg Sloonei how are you ever gonna have the time to do this for everyone before EoD

Does Sloonei always proceed by alphabetical order?

[Sloonei]

omg Sloonei how are you ever gonna have the time to do this for everyone before EoD

Does Sloonei always proceed by alphabetical order?

i'm usually much quicker than this and also usually have a JaggedJimmyJay on board to split the workload with.

[Carotenoid]

Ooooh that's cute
Well good luck have fun then

[Lissa]

Starting to think dunya + sloonei wolves, long con + mac villagers.

Hmmm.

i

suppose that would explain why it was so difficult to yeet marcher

[Sloonei]

I'm too tired to sort out carot, so I'm skipping ahead to Wilgy for now.

Marcher & Wilgy

Spoiler: show

town
carotenoid

townlean
bronana
kza
moth
nanook
nutella
tedxtr

null
drwilgy
dunya
Long Con
MacDougall
motobot
outed wolf
Sloonei
Soneji
TonyStarkPrime

wolflean
lissa
TurnipHead

I already did a little bit of digging into these two yesterday, but the intent of that exercise was to see if I could argue that they were both town. I could not. The purpose of this exercise is to determine what I make of Wilgy in relation to Marcher specifically. So I'm about to repeat some of what I've already said: This post right here is the very first time that Marcher mentions wilgy anywhere in this game. It is the middle of Day 2, and the Doctor is one of nine NULL reads on Marcher's list. NINE!

Spoiler: show

Who else would be "lower null"? Who would be higher null?

higher null: people who are doing things—dunya, outed wold, Sloonei
lower null: people who are not doing things—wilgy, Long Con, Mac, motobot, soneji, TSP

When we got Marcher to separate those nulls into two categories, wilgy was "lower null". Really we should have hammered Marcher on the spot here. Null is nothing. You cannot divide nothing.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: DrWilgy ] aubergine

why are you voting not me?

Ted votes for wilgy, Marcher says "What about me?" Okay.

Spoiler: show

Are we really gonna lynch wilgy today if he's town we learn nothing

I N F O Y E E T

In the words of Turnip Head:

Spoiler: show

@DrWilgy why are you on TSP?

At long last, Marcher Jovian acknowledges DrWilgy as anything more than a null underneath a bunch of other nulls.

Spoiler: show

dr wilgy isn't saving himself by voting for MJ, what does that tell you dr wilgy voters?

Dunya has a vendetta against me.

Perhaps it means I'm around and don't feel the need to save myself just yet and would rather hunt?

it was a point in your favor, not against tbh

tbf with such messy wagons I’m not sure how applicable that read is rn

I do not know what this means.

Spoiler: show

So I'm like 15 pages behind, and I suppose I still haven't seen nor understand the MJ wagon. Is this something I can be pointed to cleanly?

Tedxtr—has been tunneling me all game over an alleged tmi slip
Bronana—checked my meta and thought I matched the scum more than town meta
outed wolf—sheeping bronana
dunya—disliked how many nulls in my readslist, esp in context of how I treated Lissa yesterday

The doctor asks for assistance, and Nurse Marcher provides it in a weird self-reflective way. I feel like Wilgy's side of this exchange will be more telling than Marcher's response here.

Spoiler: show

If there’s a vigilante, please, PLEASE, shoot Marcher.

I think I’d shoot Wilgy over Marcher.

Really feeling the Wilgy suspicion.

Like in what universe does a watcher with a clear suspect waffle like this on their legacy reads

Incidental wilgy appearance in ted posts. I've only included these to note that Marcher has still offered no opinion on Wilgy.

Spoiler: show

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

Here we are, the first time Marcher actually says something substantive about wilgy. Incidentally, this is also the exact post that settled Marcher's alignment for me, but I only read the first two sentences. So what does this post actually say, and how does that reflect on Wilgy?
... I don't know that it says anything about wilgy, actually. Or, I don't know that Marcher Jovian says anything about Wilgy. The post might reveal some things, though. This is a somewhat awkwardly-worded explanation of why Wilgy has survived two (now three) straight eliminations. It could be a revealingly honest glimpse at the mafia team's game plan: "We preferred Radishes over Wilgy Day 1 because we just saw him play in Champs and are scared. We preferred Turnip over Wilgy on Day 2 because TH claimed doctor." But I struggle to buy that latter point: Turnip Head claimed super late and there was not much (or any?) movement specifically from wilgy to Turnip Head at that time. There might have been. I'd need to double check. But at the moment I'm inclined to feel like this entire post is strange simply because it's all completely dishonest and Marcher is experiencing verbal diarrhea at this point. That doesn't necessarily need to reflect on wilgy one way or the other. But I do not love that Marcher tried so hard to justify the mafia team wanting to eliminate Turnip Head before civilian wilgy.

Spoiler: show

Why are people voting Lissa?

Marcher Jovian and DrWilgy both said they could vote the other, but neither of them did... Hmmmn.

Because if I move my vote the Lissa wagon goes away

I loved playing with Marcher and absolutely intend to do it again at some point, whether that's another game here on the Syndicate or somewhere else. I say this so that it does not come off as disrespectful when I describe this post as a wet fart.
This post is a wet fart.

Spoiler: show

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

What are your thoughts regarding the shift from wagons forming on you to wagons on me? Why is this happening if you are civ? Twice now you are the third where I get put ahead of you and behind someone else.

Because I've had a mix of people either defending me or at least calling me null but with potential, while you've done basically nothing of consequence all game. When push comes to shove, the second wagon will go further than the first.

The hell does this mean?

It means I do not remember anything you've done

The theory I laid out earlier for a Marcher/Wilgy pairing is that they needed to scramble at the end of the day to put some distance between themselves. This is a suddenly harsh turn from Marcher against a player she has staunchly ignored for much of the game until this moment, despite being competing wagons two days in a row. I do not struggle to see it. But I've already done this analysis. It could also just be that Marcher realized they needed to start pushing against their main counterwagon in order to save themselves yesterday. But then later on, well, you know...

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Fine I'll stop talking and let you go do things

A vote. Okay.

Spoiler: show

DrWilgy
6
27%


Voters: tedxtr, Lissa, dunya, motobot, nutella, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Turnip Head
7
32%


Voters: Marcher Jovian, TonyStarkPrime, KZA, Long Con, Sloonei, Carotenoid, MacDougall

d2 wagons: notably tedxtr and Lissa were on the counterwagon both times
(yet more evidence for Lissa wolf btw)

neither party self-presing is hella weird. me and Sloonei were the only ones on the yeet wagon both times

The lack of overlap between the two leading wagons feels pretty weird for such a big game where both yeets were on villagers

Marcher is in full crap-at-wall mode. This post doesn't actually comment on wilgy.


Wilgy & Marcher

Spoiler: show

Moving my vote to [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine for now out of self-pres and because it's a bleh slot that isn't a big loss, whereas Marcher is...I mean, I don't find him very townie, but I also don't know him and want him to not die super early in his first Syndicate game.

Rude

Nothin'

Spoiler: show

@DrWilgy why are you on TSP?

Doesn't feel like town TSP. The ISO is garbo.

Beep boop.

Spoiler: show

ask me in the night phase sometime, i don't think i could really give you a list off the top of my head atm

just firing from the hip mostly.

I hate this.

"ask me in the night phase" is p bad lol

so you'll ask "why would a wolf ever do that" to defend marcher, but it doesnt enter as a thought at all you have here?

It's denial of information. One thing to say 'generically later' but another to set up a time frame for slank (trust me I get it if it's a time thing). There's a purpose in this voice that I wholeheartedly dislike.

This doesn't actually have anything to do with marcher, I'm just highlighting to note that Wilgy is also saying very little about Marcher.

Spoiler: show

mac / marcher / turnip head / wilgy / soneji

convince me any of those are villagers

Tell me about this Focus group. I'd like your insight on Mac specifically.

Marcher is named as part of a prospective mafia team. Wilgy focuses on it, asks specifically about Mac. Okay.

Spoiler: show

I honestly don't know. The townreads there are inexplicable to me. They are wolfy in this game and it also lines up with their wolf meta. I have made plenty of posts about this. I could be wrong but I have no real reason to townread them.

What's the worst post they've made in the game?

Shitting on turnips claim then voting him, I guess.

I'm going to bed and can't bother to look more in depth

@Marcher Jovian why'd you do this?

What kind of doctor ever acts like that at eod. They're a doctor, they have a strong pr. They shouldn't be afraid of getting banished. What was up with that whole "you'll be weirded out when my role flips" act. TH was a doctor, they were highly wagoned, if they claim and live they basically force the mafia to nk them.

this is nonsense

they did claim

it's perfectly normal to be concerned about claiming a role very similar to another flipped village role

there's no particularly believable plausible deniability retained with what they said

I don't agree with this. My recollection of TH's claim was that it wasn't a set in stone thing as 'it's gonna be a headscratcher'

Where does Moth's recent claim stand in relation to TH's from your perspective? Is that more or less valid than what TH did under the gun?

Wilgy sticks up for Marcher when Lissa criticizes Marcher's assessment of the Turnip kerfuffle. Eyebrows: Raised.

Spoiler: show

could sloonei do this as a wolf

Yes, but I can't say I've seen it as detailed.

Aw thanks. This read's gone now.

Spoiler: show

what is your take on marcher jovian?

Conflicting.

Missed the reason why they were sus'd bad in the first place day 1, but I haven't read their posts as being non-genuine since. Sloonei's read of MJ is also factoring in here as I'm finding that I just mostly agree with it.

Even re-reading MJ's callout of TH's claim and following discussion and trying to break down both possible voices left me feeling it's a civ voice.

This is contrast to voting patterns though. Part of me is starting to think that MJ keeps getting saved with me and others on the back burner. Reading MJ as a civ voice is the only think keeping me from pursuing this harder.

SO, would I be opposed to MJ being banished, no... Would I prefer someone else, yes.

Good on nutella to get this response out of wilgy. The first paragraph is a bit of a trip. he starts by confessing to having missed the Day 1 case against Marcher. Then comes a weird double negative configuration: "I haven't read their posts as non-genuine." Actually to be fair I say shit like that all the time. But hYpOcRiSy yada yada. Then he cites me as a reason to town read Marcher. Shucks. Second paragraph justifies a town read on Marcher based on recent developments. Third paragraph looks at the wagons. I dunno. I can see this as a natural post from a civilian, but I can also read it as a Mafia Doctor who is trying to have it both ways: This post doesn't really constitute a read on Marcher and he has left both doors open for himself.

Spoiler: show

@DrWilgy which version of my Marcher read do you agree with? I feel like it’s changed 15 times in the last 48 hours.

The town one. I've seen you voice that there are reasons for voting him recently and that your read is fluid, but don't think I've seen you call him scum directly. The way I had read your posts, it almost seems that you were wanting to understand the MJ wagon to better solidify your own stance or to figure out the answer to 'What if I'm wrong?'

Now, I could've extrapolated incorrectly, but that's why I was disappointed in your response to my line of questioning regarding your sense of correctness of read.

This was a semi-callout, semi-clarification question from me. When wilgy said that my read on MJ was influencing his own, I felt as though my read on Marcher was in constant flux, and that that was visible in the thread. For wilgy to nonchalantly cite "The town one" as the version of my read that he likes suggests that he's aware that "the town one" is not the current one. If that is the case I can again squint my eyes and wonder if he's cherrypicking the thread for favorable things to say about Marcher.

Spoiler: show

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

What are your thoughts regarding the shift from wagons forming on you to wagons on me? Why is this happening if you are civ? Twice now you are the third where I get put ahead of you and behind someone else.

Because I've had a mix of people either defending me or at least calling me null but with potential, while you've done basically nothing of consequence all game. When push comes to shove, the second wagon will go further than the first.

The hell does this mean?

This:

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

What are your thoughts regarding the shift from wagons forming on you to wagons on me? Why is this happening if you are civ? Twice now you are the third where I get put ahead of you and behind someone else.

Because I've had a mix of people either defending me or at least calling me null but with potential, while you've done basically nothing of consequence all game. When push comes to shove, the second wagon will go further than the first.

The hell does this mean?

It means I do not remember anything you've done

Followed by this:

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Fine I'll stop talking and let you go do things

Is scummy as hell.

Alright cool, wilgy's turn on Marcher coincides with Marcher's turn on wilgy. So I now can confirm that neither of them really ever said anything of substance about the other until the end of Day 3 until they were the only two options on the board. Is it too obvious for them to begin to mutually distance from one another this late in the process? That's the key question to my wilgy read at the moment, tbh. "Level 1" read is that wilgy is obviously bad, but wilgy's an experienced and slippery player. Does this happen if they're both bad? I've already done this, I don't need to go over it again.

Spoiler: show

Let's talk about Marcher's flip from Lissa to me:

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

RED Flag. Is Jovian looking for reasons to sus me?

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

What are your thoughts regarding the shift from wagons forming on you to wagons on me? Why is this happening if you are civ? Twice now you are the third where I get put ahead of you and behind someone else.

Because I've had a mix of people either defending me or at least calling me null but with potential, while you've done basically nothing of consequence all game. When push comes to shove, the second wagon will go further than the first.

Then can't find a reason and throws out the same dumb thing I've been fighting all game. I have plenty of posts and have made plenty of pushes. This suspicion is empty.

Why are people voting Lissa?

Marcher Jovian and DrWilgy both said they could vote the other, but neither of them did... Hmmmn.

Because if I move my vote the Lissa wagon goes away

Then argues against voting me because voting Lissa is more important.

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

What are your thoughts regarding the shift from wagons forming on you to wagons on me? Why is this happening if you are civ? Twice now you are the third where I get put ahead of you and behind someone else.

Because I've had a mix of people either defending me or at least calling me null but with potential, while you've done basically nothing of consequence all game. When push comes to shove, the second wagon will go further than the first.

The hell does this mean?

It means I do not remember anything you've done

Because they aren't hunting.

Like you've said words and stuff, but you haven't done like any pushes or interrogations or stepped into tunnels or anything

You haven't tried to get someone to consensus town, you haven't tried to stop a yeet

Bullshit. They aren't hunting.

Like you've done jack to advance gamestate

Yes, because this is my sole responsibility.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Fine I'll stop talking and let you go do things

And the vote.

Lynch them.

wigly many words. pls summerize case so I know what to argue against

Your vote for me was fake and forced. You have no suspicion on me, but you didn't even try to claim self pres. You looked for a reason, found a shite one and used it.

Continued.

Spoiler: show

I found Jovian's team:

“Wilgy’s being defended by mafia. No one’s really defending him” is the kind of sentence formation that isn’t necessarily scummy, but it makes so little sense that I have trouble seeing it as an organic thought process.

do you think it is w/w, w/v, or v/v?

I could go w/w or w/v. The game state suggests that it’s not v/v.

Marcher Jovian completely disappearing kinda makes me think wagons are w/w

As much as I hate pre-flip associations, I am feeling a marcher/wilgy connection, actually.

Quite literally setting me up for a mislynch after their teammate bus.

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

AND NOW THEY ARE TRYING TO DISTANCE WTF LMAO

The simultaneous push onto me from both of them is another headscratcher (which I've already scratched my head about plenty). Rather than spin in circles again, I'll just note a single point: Wilgy and Marcher both turned on each other at the same moment after having nothing conclusive to say about one another for the entire game. However, promptly after turning on each other, they both then made me their primary focus of suspicion. Both of them. Independently. They both went after Sloonei instead of each other.

tl;dr - DrWilgy - For reasons that I mostly talked about in the night. The end of day 2 was supremely weird. The weirdness is not at all confined to Marcher's posts, and wilgy's concurrent posts mirror Marcher's in a bizarre way that almost feels too bizarre to be coincidental, but also too bizarre to be coordinated. I would very much like to hear what others have to say about Wilgy's end of Day yesterday, especially as it relates to Marcher's.

[Sloonei]

I'm now way too tired to continue at all. I'll get to the rest sometime later. Happy America Day to everyone all around the globe.

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: drwilgy] aubergine for now, mostly to encourage people to suss out what he was doing at the deadline yesterday. Look at for yourselves, draw your own conclusions. I won't pretend to have a clear answer.

[outed wolf]

ahoy

[Lissa]

btw Lissa, your name always reminds me of one of my fav songs (lissa in Arabic means not yet or still does)

that song is really pretty!

[Lissa]

sup visor

[Sloonei]

i also should probably note that it's not like wilgy was a massive presence in the thread for Days 1 & 2, so Marcher's relative silence about him may not be as egregious as it looks in isolation. Likewise, wilgy not having much to say about Marcher might not be all that unique if I were to run the same exercise for wilgy and anyone else. But there are some iffy moments within the content that does exist between them, and their status as competing wagons multiple days in a row theoretically should have resulted in more content than we got.

[Lissa]

I don’t object to lc’s eod at face value

i'd love if you could like

talk a little more about this, because it was pretty rough imo

[Lissa]

TonyStarkPrime and MacDougall were the only votes on Sloonei besides Jovian, at the end.

On second thought, there were two ways to save Jovian, if all the Wilgy and Sloonei voters had gotten together. That means... wolves on both trains? Some bussers?

Someone said there was 5 scum in the game, I think. Might have been a baiting attempt. If there are 4 left, I'd say two on Wilgy's train, one on Jovian, and one on Sloonei? Maybe just crazy talk... they did not seem to be all together for a save attempt, is all.

i mean like

do you think it would have made sense there for a large portion of the wolfteam to ALL attempt a blatant save, at that point?

because i.. don't

i'm not really sure i'm understanding what you're trying to argue sorry

i guess like you seem to be extrapolating off the idea that they'd have wanted to do this if it was numerically viable and i'm like

[Sloonei]

I agree that Sloonei is town.

Jovian works to fuel the mistrust of TH's doc claim, and then votes right after Sloonei does.

I'm happy with the Jovian wagon.

Ok marcher, let's try it: [VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

No one is jumping from the Wilgy train to save Jovian.

Just kidding. I don't want to lynch Sloonei, of course. [VOTE: jovian] aubergine

These two posts make Long Con's intentions pretty clear, I think. Or maybe the issue is whether or not we believe him. I say that his play was not bad at face value because it's not a given that Long Con needs to be a civilian when he does this. But regardless of that, I don't think there was ever any actual intent on his part to leave a vote on me. If he's bad that's like waving a sign around that says "Vote for me next time!" If he's town then it's a goofy a baseless change of direction. Either he truly wanted to test the waters to see if anyone else would jump on the Sloonei vote, or he was a wolf who wanted to appear to be doing that. But the play itself should not be read as "Long Con abruptly tried to get sloonei banished." I don't think that was ever his intention, regardless of alignment.

[Sloonei]

Long Con is the slipperiest of all the slippery wolves on The Syndicate. I'll squint my eyes at everything he does, but I won't argue that he makes such a careless slip as is being alleged here. (if im understanding the point correctly.)

[Lissa]

carote, i read the marcher/wilgy post

i'm thinking on it

i'm kinda

hrm

i don't think i care too much about the minimality of their cross-stances earlygame, since wilgy didn't have a lot period to either work with/have those thoughts within at that point

wilgy lashing out and escalating a wolfread on someone saying he's not done much seems pretty consistent with his previous posting, if i recall the timeline of it correctly

i could see them as partners but i also could kinda see "really omgusy villager" in that wilgy progression and i almost feel like that last marcher sequence is them trying to spew wilgy as their partner

[Sloonei]

Speaking of timelines...

At 5:10 PM Eastern time, Marcher casts a vote for Wilgy.
Neither wilgy nor Marcher are very active for a while as more people plop votes down on them for a couple hours. Then at 7:26, Mac introduces the Sloonei tinfoil.
Also at 7:26, Marcher reappears to discredit the most recent point Sloonei has raised against them. Marcher had not posted for 2 hours prior to this. They returned to shade the player called Sloonei at the exact moment that Macdougall also started doing the same.
At 7:27, Doctor Wilgy also turns against Sloonei. Literally in a space of no more than 120 seconds, all three of MacDougall, Marcher Jovian, and DrWilgy have very abruptly started three independent anti-Sloonei campaigns. None of these three had been actively opposed to me prior to this. Mac and Marcher had expressed doubts on occasion, but never with much substance or conviction. Wilgy had very vocally called me a town read until now.
To be fair, Wilgy does not jump in with both feet until 20 minutes later, but I perceived that initial question as his first step in the anti-Sloon direction. Marcher's malfunction is well under way at this point, though it's not singularly focused on me yet. Wilgy's tunnel is as persistent as Marcher's from here on out

[cayvie]

I kind of think both my triumvirate pals (moth, wilgy) are wolfs rn bc they are just refusing to give me a straight answer to a simple question.

Outed wolf otoh at least gave me something that felt like he was trying to work with me.

[Lissa]

I agree that Sloonei is town.

Jovian works to fuel the mistrust of TH's doc claim, and then votes right after Sloonei does.

I'm happy with the Jovian wagon.

Ok marcher, let's try it: [VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

No one is jumping from the Wilgy train to save Jovian.

Just kidding. I don't want to lynch Sloonei, of course. [VOTE: jovian] aubergine

These two posts make Long Con's intentions pretty clear, I think. Or maybe the issue is whether or not we believe him. I say that his play was not bad at face value because it's not a given that Long Con needs to be a civilian when he does this. But regardless of that, I don't think there was ever any actual intent on his part to leave a vote on me. If he's bad that's like waving a sign around that says "Vote for me next time!" If he's town then it's a goofy a baseless change of direction. Either he truly wanted to test the waters to see if anyone else would jump on the Sloonei vote, or he was a wolf who wanted to appear to be doing that. But the play itself should not be read as "Long Con abruptly tried to get sloonei banished." I don't think that was ever his intention, regardless of alignment.

hrm

i'm unsure why he would intentionally want to look to be doing that as a wolf - i suppose maybe to make this argument - but i can see how it was projected as bait, yeah

i do have other issues with long con, though

[cayvie]

I kind of think both my triumvirate pals (moth, wilgy) are wolfs rn bc they are just refusing to give me a straight answer to a simple question.

Outed wolf otoh at least gave me something that felt like he was trying to work with me.

Of course if that's the case I feel pretty safe from night kills bc I bet they wouldn't want to have the glory of two wolfs.

[cayvie]

*halve the glory of two wolfs

[Sloonei]

I agree that Sloonei is town.

Jovian works to fuel the mistrust of TH's doc claim, and then votes right after Sloonei does.

I'm happy with the Jovian wagon.

Ok marcher, let's try it: [VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

No one is jumping from the Wilgy train to save Jovian.

Just kidding. I don't want to lynch Sloonei, of course. [VOTE: jovian] aubergine

These two posts make Long Con's intentions pretty clear, I think. Or maybe the issue is whether or not we believe him. I say that his play was not bad at face value because it's not a given that Long Con needs to be a civilian when he does this. But regardless of that, I don't think there was ever any actual intent on his part to leave a vote on me. If he's bad that's like waving a sign around that says "Vote for me next time!" If he's town then it's a goofy a baseless change of direction. Either he truly wanted to test the waters to see if anyone else would jump on the Sloonei vote, or he was a wolf who wanted to appear to be doing that. But the play itself should not be read as "Long Con abruptly tried to get sloonei banished." I don't think that was ever his intention, regardless of alignment.

hrm

i'm unsure why he would intentionally want to look to be doing that as a wolf - i suppose maybe to make this argument - but i can see how it was projected as bait, yeah

i do have other issues with long con, though

In the most recent game I played with mafia Long Con, he voted for himself on Day 1 to put himself in a tie for the lead at the end of the day. He had no safeguards to protect himself in the event that the coin flip didn't go his way. He survived it anyway, and ended up winning the game.

Long Con just does weird shit when he's mafia.

[Sloonei]

What are your other issues with him, lissa?

[bronana]

Day 1 votecount:

Spoiler: show

Everyone should banish DrWilgy, as he has shown blatant disrespect toward the Scribes!

Poll ended at Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:30 pmPlease note that if you vote, your vote will be visible.

bronana
0
No votes


Voters: None

Carotenoid
6
27%


Voters: bronana, outed wolf, moth, tedxtr, KZA, Lissa

DrWilgy
4
18%


Voters: Carotenoid, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, motobot, Long Con

dunya
0
No votes


Voters: None

KZA
0
No votes


Voters: None

Lissa
1
5%


Voters: MacDougall

Long Con
0
No votes


Voters: None

MacDougall
0
No votes


Voters: None

Marcher Jovian
2
9%


Voters: Master Radishes, TonyStarkPrime

Master Radishes
7
32%


Voters: nutella, Turnip Head, dunya, DrWilgy, Marcher Jovian, tutuu, Sloonei

moth
0
No votes


Voters: None

motobot
0
No votes


Voters: None

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
0
No votes


Voters: None

nutella
0
No votes


Voters: None

outed wolf
0
No votes


Voters: None

Sloonei
0
No votes


Voters: None

Soneji
0
No votes


Voters: None

tedxtr
0
No votes


Voters: None

TonyStarkPrime
0
No votes


Voters: None

Turnip Head
0
No votes


Voters: None

tutuu
0
No votes


Voters: None

Gol Golathanian (The Host, the Non, the Dead)
2
9%


Voters: JaggedJimmyJay, Epignosis


Total votes: 22

Day 2 votecount:

Spoiler: show

There must be one among you so soiled...who?

Poll ended at Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:05 pmPlease note that if you vote, your vote will be visible.

Carotenoid
1
5%


Voters: moth

DrWilgy
6
27%


Voters: tedxtr, Lissa, dunya, motobot, nutella, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

dunya
0
No votes


Voters: None

KZA
0
No votes


Voters: None

Lissa
0
No votes


Voters: None

Long Con
0
No votes


Voters: None

MacDougall
0
No votes


Voters: None

Marcher Jovian
2
9%


Voters: outed wolf, bronana

moth
1
5%


Voters: Turnip Head

motobot
0
No votes


Voters: None

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
0
No votes


Voters: None

nutella
0
No votes


Voters: None

outed wolf
0
No votes


Voters: None

Sloonei
0
No votes


Voters: None

Soneji
1
5%


Voters: DrWilgy

tedxtr
0
No votes


Voters: None

TonyStarkPrime
0
No votes


Voters: None

Turnip Head
7
32%


Voters: Marcher Jovian, TonyStarkPrime, KZA, Long Con, Sloonei, Carotenoid, MacDougall

Ha'ub the Swallow (The Host, the Non, the Dead)
4
18%


Voters: Master Radishes, juliets, JaggedJimmyJay, Epignosis


Total votes: 22

Day 3 votecount:

Spoiler: show

Get on with it...

Poll ended at Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:47 pmPlease note that if you vote, your vote will be visible.

bronana
0
No votes


Voters: None

Carotenoid
0
No votes


Voters: None

DrWilgy
5
20%


Voters: motobot, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, cayvie, Sloonei, moth

dunya
0
No votes


Voters: None

KZA
0
No votes


Voters: None

Lissa
0
No votes


Voters: None

MacDougall
0
No votes


Voters: None

Marcher Jovian
9
36%


Voters: Lissa, KZA, bronana, dunya, nutella, DrWilgy, Long Con, outed wolf, Carotenoid

moth
0
No votes


Voters: None

motobot
0
No votes


Voters: None

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
0
No votes


Voters: None

nutella
0
No votes


Voters: None

outed wolf
0
No votes


Voters: None

Sloonei
3
12%


Voters: TonyStarkPrime, MacDougall, Marcher Jovian

cayvie
0
No votes


Voters: None


TonyStarkPrime
0
No votes


Voters: None

Jomuer Many-Mane (The Host, the Non, the Dead)
8
32%


Voters: iaafr, Master Radishes, tedxtr, JaggedJimmyJay, M Plus 7, Epignosis, Dragon D. Luffy, Turnip Head


Total votes: 25

Day 1 and 2 votecounts, formatted and colorized for visualization purposes:



Anyone taking issue with me coloring my own name in green, sorry but I made this mostly as a reference for myself.

Day 3 not very useful yet but here:

Spoiler: show

First things that jump out at me,

- TonyStark voted Marcher when it didn't matter d1, never voted there again (at least did not end there). Something worth looking at in Tony's iso.

- Carot looks like she was voted by a lot of villagers d1. Wagon disappeared after d1. Not sure how much I buy the argument some have raised that wolves would have targeted Radishes because he's been in champs. Carot was a villager in the champs game this season that yeeted wolves d1, d2, and d3 in a sweep, and from when I glanced was not merely along for the ride but an important cog in that village. The Carot wagon also emerged significantly later than the Radishes one however, iirc.

- The n2 and n3 kills were both on the d1 Carot wagon. ted voted for Wilgy d2 and explicitly said to kill him (dunno how much that should realistically be read into, also was pretty high on killing Marcher which would be a perfectly legitimate reason for a NK even with Wilgy as villa).

- Marcher never voted for Wilgy. Not super meaningful d1 - could see wolves gunning for the Radishes misyeet when it was available, as presumably he would be a lot harder to misyeet later on than Wilgy. And Marcher clearly wanted to kill a town PR when they voted Turnip. And not sure how much their d3 vote can really be read in their d3 voting.

- Lot of the most suspected people voted Turnip d2.

- Nanook and motobot have voted Wilgy every day.

- Wilgy didn't self-pres d2. Kinda weird, don't remember him hesitating to self-pres other days. Possible wolves knew enough about the stats of voters involved that they saw wolf!Wilgy as an acceptable risk to avoid too many wolves piling on Turnip. If he's town, I guess I could see him thinking it was better to let the PR live? idk. Worth looking at again.

- Mac hasn't seemed to really give a shit about the wagons, off-wagon on his Lissa/Sloonei thing d1 and d3. But he did vote Turnip d2. Possibly implies, if a wolf, he's paired with Wilgy but not Carot. Would be a bit careless.

- Sloonei the only person on both misyeets who didn't vote for Marcher. Him and Marcher were the only ones on both misyeets.

- nutella and dunya have voted the same every day but don't really townread each other from what I remember?

[bronana]

i almost feel like that last marcher sequence is them trying to spew wilgy as their partner

I've had this thought about marcher not voting wilgy d3

[bronana]

I kind of think both my triumvirate pals (moth, wilgy) are wolfs rn bc they are just refusing to give me a straight answer to a simple question.

Outed wolf otoh at least gave me something that felt like he was trying to work with me.

Of course if that's the case I feel pretty safe from night kills bc I bet they wouldn't want to have the glory of two wolfs.

Look At Me I'm So Town

[cayvie]

I kind of think both my triumvirate pals (moth, wilgy) are wolfs rn bc they are just refusing to give me a straight answer to a simple question.

Outed wolf otoh at least gave me something that felt like he was trying to work with me.

Of course if that's the case I feel pretty safe from night kills bc I bet they wouldn't want to have the glory of two wolfs.

Look At Me I'm So Town

Hell yeah someone sees my posts lol

I'm here phone posting on this overnight shift and unable to do isos or anything complicated

[bronana]

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine
That Nanook vote weirded me out

You don't accept his reasoning? I find Tony's overall vibe scummy to this point but I don't take issue with him prodding someone that was barely noticeable. You'll notice that Nanook showed up too, and his posts didn't exactly impress me. Since you like asking questions I'll ask you one; any thoughts on Nanook himself?

Oh and I think you asked me about Moth earlier but I got distracted; he is still town.

It’s because Tony was happy to suspect people and cast shade on them, but wasn’t willing to actually back it up with a vote. Like from reputation I know sloonei and nutella are fairly experienced players, so it’d probably be hard to get either banished d1. Nanook is a really easy, random, low-commitment vote. Who’s gonna defend someone with low thread presence that hasn’t really gotten “serious” about solving yet? Like in a vacuum I don’t think someone voting Nanook is necessarily scummie, but it doesn’t really fit with the mindset Tony’s shown so far.
Like Tony: “This might be a wolf tactic because most people just leave these sort of mutual tunnels alone d1. be cautious of this”
Also Tony: leaves mutual tunnel alone, makes an easy, low-commitment vote
Why isn’t he pushing at the tunnel? It just makes me go ???

Re: Nanook is probably just lazy civilian getting pushed for a miselim.

bad

huh

Tony later made it to Marcher's big pile of nulls.

Tony shaded Marcher a bit a few times but never voted them again. I can't even find where he voted Marcher in his iso.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME you should also be doing more things
@TonyStarkPrime you as well

Thought this seemed kinda w/w at first glance.

@KZA do more things
@moth do more things

@Long Con I'd be telling you to do more things but nutella gave you a potato pass for the day. I will merely humbly request that you do more things.

The much longer Long Con mention, with its own post, is interesting.

[Lissa]

What are your other issues with him, lissa?

his wilgy progression, and also his... i suppose philosophical-ish progression surrounding it would be the best way to put it

on d1 he parked on wilgy all day because "the host said to". i don't think this is particularly good but i don't think it's damning in itself or anything

but

day 2 he reacted imo somewhat poorly to the turnip head claim, then said he didn't think yeeting dr wilgy for inactivity after yeeting radishes for inactivity was great. i think "yeet the doctor claim over someone who seems to be being yeeted for inactivity" is a strange progression in terms of like... ways of viewing the game, from his d1. parking on wilgy d1 for the reasons he did says to me very mechanical and straightforward, or really primarily just mechanic focused/emphasized. his eod2 is what i would define as Not That. long con doesn't seem like the type of person who should be staying on turnip head, a person claiming in what i would consider to be a clear enough manner, there as a villager, when his best reason to not be on wilgy is "not wanting to yeet someone for inactivity again" - and radishes and wilgy were very different cases anyway. then on top of that, d3 he bounces back into having a very mechanical line of thought, thinking about how having the doctor roles alive could be used to set up a follow-the-inforole strategy. someone who thinks about mechanics in this way should, imo, be much more hesitant to yeet someone he i believe should have clearly grasped was claiming a protective.

sorry i'm not sure how easy to follow this is lol, i can try to clean it up

[MacDougall]

What does every one think of LC/Mac partnership WITH Marcher. Or mostly LC?

I don't think very much of it at all

[Lissa]

most of sloonei's stuff re: wilgy/marcher i think my response to carote also applies to in some part

[bronana]

Tony and KZA were in the same champs game, and it seems like KZA thought Tony's early posts were wolfy but considered Tony town regardless because he didn't think Tony was wolves with Marcher. I think their distancing was kinda weaksauce, it's certainly nothing I haven't seen before if w/w.

I looked a bit at that champs game, and others (outed wolf I know mentioned it) are correct that there is a lot more thought and nuance and just everything really there compared to here. His posts in this thread are not great independently either.

[Lissa]

Tony and KZA were in the same champs game, and it seems like KZA thought Tony's early posts were wolfy but considered Tony town regardless because he didn't think Tony was wolves with Marcher. I think their distancing was kinda weaksauce, it's certainly nothing I haven't seen before if w/w.

I looked a bit at that champs game, and others (outed wolf I know mentioned it) are correct that there is a lot more thought and nuance and just everything really there compared to here. His posts in this thread are not great independently either.

yeah.

i looked at it too

at first (before i did that) i kinda was like, feels like a villagery disconnect but when i reminded myself of what his champs game looked like i was like... is this actually someone i should be applying this to

probably not

and his eod was

not good

[bronana]

based on the wilgy games nutella linked earlier, i would lean wolf

town: search.php?keywords=&t=1892&author=DrWi ... sf=msgonly

mafia: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... sf=msgonly

The town game he was more direct, less frills, got right to solving and had no issues getting into the thread, got nk'd n3.

[bronana]

based on the wilgy games nutella linked earlier, i would lean wolf

town: search.php?keywords=&t=1892&author=DrWi ... sf=msgonly

mafia: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... sf=msgonly

The town game he was more direct, less frills, got right to solving and had no issues getting into the thread, got nk'd n3.

[bronana]

Sorry for the doublepost, site has been all fucked up for me the last few minutes.