Pyre Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Lissa]

marcher progression is very much a thing that bothers me about visor

[MacDougall]

outed wolf as 1 vote

[outed wolf]

theres nothing wrong with my marcher progression and the fact that you are still hung up on it is ridiculous lissa

[bronana]

theres nothing wrong with my marcher progression and the fact that you are still hung up on it is ridiculous lissa

disagreed on both counts

[Long Con]

Actually if anyone has a power that allows them to see other's stats there are some really cool situations we can force wolves into

Would be nice to have a couple of doctors on board. Then a rolechecker-type could claim, and every dead town member could give them all their Glory into Hope, and we could elevate those excellent roles into going off two, maybe even three times a night. That kind of idea is riddled with risks though.

Glory might be useful to know about because it relies on specific breakpoints so it’s good to know someone’s glory if you’re alocating hope points to them. The issue is that it might accidentally lead into people softing their roles by saying that their night action is really good or mediocre to try to influence who spends glory on them.

prescence/quickness seem less useful to know. I guess there’s utility in knowing the exact state of very close wagons, or in avoiding accidentally losing a miselim by banishing all the high-voting civilians (though claiming quickness also lets mafia target high-boting civilians for the same effect)

Hope doesn’t really seem useful to know. I guess if we decide to just claim glory and hope, knowing hope gives more information to try to deduce the rest of the stats from?

please god don't let this be a dumb question

how do i know what i am? o.O based on my character? like i read my role 10 times, no time does epi tell me where im assigned.

also i can buy stuff for other people? with my money? why the fuck would i do that? i'm poor, i'm barely making enough to feed myself

What kind of role do you have?

someone's gonna be like TSP ISNT DENYING THAT MOTH REDCHECEEDKD HISM HE DOSNET WANNA GET LIE DETECTED HES A OWLF any second now

well i always vote for owlfs

also: lie detected? is that a thing around here?

I like to put lie detectors in my games when I Host. Often I will make them secret, so that people won't alter their posts to try and avoid the detector. I made one that had to send in a post within an hour of it being posted in order to lie-detect. I've had a player that lie-detected someone, but misinterpreted the situation, and lost the game based on it. It was glorious, he had only himself to blame. It's generally no more powerful than a role-checker, but adds a good thread-related element, and a good deal of judgment.

in case there is one, I AM TOWN.

This is the reason that some lie-detector limiters have been set in the past.. things like not being able to check straight-up claims because it's not sporting. It got muddled, That's why the secret lie detector is best.

Long Con's vote is the one with the most meat on the bone:

Spoiler: show

I'm gonna vote for Turnip Head right now. Just a gut feel. [VOTE: My old friend] aubergine

It's gonna be funny because my role was extremely similiar to Radishes'. So I probably won't be townread even after I flip town

are you claiming....3p?

Nope I'm town but my role is 90% same as Master Radishes' role so it's gonna be a headscratcher

But Radishes was a doctor. What's so headscratchy about that?

Pushing inactivity Wilgy right after yeeting inactivity Radishes is not the greatest.

I have no reason to oppose a wilgy vote, but I just want to comment that the lack of traction on outed wolf is confusing. If we have a consensus suspect, it’s him, and yet there seems to be a collective resistance to talking about him over the last hour.

I'd vote for him. This TH vote is feeling a little stale and wrong at this point.

Staying at this point, I don't want the Wilgy lynch.

His strong position is that "voting for wilgy is not the greatest." In the middle of all this he expresses disapproval of the TH vote as well. But then he settles on Turnip by virtue of them not being wilgy.

I can relate to this. I was not as firmly anti-wilgy-vote as LC, but I shared the sense that I was being made to choose between two options that I didn't love. But at the same time, LC was at least mildly critical of Turnip's claim in the moment, and his progression from the time of his vote to his denouncement of the wagon (without doing much in between) kind of reads like he has one foot on board the train and one foot off of it, and that is not the best look. He pushes the skeptical angle against TH when it first comes up, parks his vote there, and then denounces the wagon with only a moment to spare.

Also of note in the same post where he complains about the TH wagon is that LC is one of several people who expressed support for the idea of voting outed wolf without actually taking any steps to make that happen.

If Wilgy ends up being bad, then I'll look very bad. Maybe it'll happen, them's the breaks. I'm hoping my read on him is good. I had a few TH posts that gave me the feeling he could be bad, so I went with it. Anything I did "with only a moment to spare" was simply due to the fluctuating thread at the time, not from a goal I had. The outed wolf wagon never had a firm following, and expressing my support was all I could really do, to indicate that I'd be there if it happened. But it didn't. I was willing. It was a crappy yeet, and I get that I was on the wrong side of it, but it's not because I'm a wolf.

No more meta assumptions, no more weird angleshooty clears. look at what people have done and what they haven't done

“No more good reads let’s just throw darts blindly”

This is a post from Nanook that I don't like. That's not what MJ is saying at all. It's not even close, this is WTF level of interpretation by Nanook.

why is long con unvoteable

what on earth has he done to make himself worthy of that

It’s Canada Day.

DrWilgy has not voted for Turnip Head even if their wagons were neck-to-neck and I... Don't know what to think of that?

Is that true? That looks pretty good on Wilgy. It was a very close call, especially with vote values based on Presence. In all likelihood, switching voters from one train to another in the right way would have caused a Wilgy lynch. Too close for a wolf Wilgy to risk not voting for TH.

i've read your iso probably several times over the course of the game

plus like, your posts when you made them in the thread

press x to etc.

could he? yes

is he? probably not

I have a newfound respect for sloonei

Welcome to The Syndicate. I agree that Sloonei is town.

[Sloonei]

outed wolf's progression on Marcher is troubling. He takes an early negative stance:

Spoiler: show

i have slight tmi-ey vibes from marchers post about nanook

Not an unfair Day 1 read. A little scant, and I'm never all that impressed with supposed "tmi" reads, but this post in itself is not a problem.

Spoiler: show

Visor, you had Marcher as one of the few people that you actually had reasons to scum read

Are you gonna vote there?

Maybe!

Maybe I'll just stick to voting motobot

This is where the problem sort of begins. outed wolf is asked about the prospect of voting for marcher, who he's on record as suspecting. He says "nah" and leaves his vote on motobot. Okay....

Spoiler: show

yo ow

do you have any thoughts on carot or marcher

not super defined.

carott i know got a bunch of heat in their champs game (well, thats what i picked up from spec chat anyway.) i figure theyd be an easy push regardless of alignment, and at least from what i had seen prior to this morning hadn't really dont anything outside ask a bunch of questions. no real read there. marcher i thought his defence of nanook was super premature and felt like tmi defence of a villager, after that i kinda just let him do his thing. i havent had particularly strong feelings on his posts, but i think there is a possibility i may be predisposed to thinking his style is wolfy, lol.

so, not particularly. i should prob iso them but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

He is asked directly to take a stance on outed wolf and he kinda waffles around a negative read but adds the caveat of a potential bias. And then....

Spoiler: show

whats the good word

i read yalls posts
marcher a wolf?

his defence of carot is interesting, i cant imagine having such a strong village read on her outside of masonry if im honest

just not the kind to be super villagery

Trouble has arrived. This post just reads too eager to bury Marcher. Whether I would read that a bus or an opportunistic move against a vulnerable civilian, I don't know. My concern here is just the way this post feels in relation to the rest of his posts re: marcher jovian in this game. outed wolf has been lingering around the perimeter of a suspicion, but at a moment when Marcher has become exposed to votes, outed wolf pops in acting like "Oh, so Marcher's a wolf? Cool, let's do this!"

Spoiler: show

i will say i was somewhat swayed by jovians emotional pleas over the last page

i intended to say this before the night ended lol

even though his peddling of the same argument in the same words is troubling, im not sure this is the line he takes as a wolf here

ymmv

please convince meotherwise

But then later he's come back down. Maybe marcher is town. Or maybe...

Spoiler: show

think we're focusing too much on carote/marcher etc

they could be wolves but we're definitely caught up in them too much

need to spread the net a bit.

Marcher is still a wolf but we should move the conversation elsewhere. Please take our your highlighters, your sharpies, your tabs, whatever your preferred method for bookmarking important things is. Here is outed wolf saying two things: 1) "Marcher Jovian (along with carot) could be a wolf, but 2) we are too focused on them.

Then, after a couple posts where outed wolf shrugs and claims to have no stance on Marcher, he drops this on us:

at this point marcher just kinda has to go regardless because of how discussion has been centered solely around him

I'm not putting this in a spoiler because I want it stick out. A little while earlier, for the sake of the game, we needed to cast a wider net away from Marcher. Now the game's primary motive needs to be the elimination of Marcher Jovian. What happened in between these posts to so fundamentally change outed wolf's outlook?

[Sloonei]

theres nothing wrong with my marcher progression and the fact that you are still hung up on it is ridiculous lissa

I hate to be that guy but I kinda disagree with you here, bud.

[MacDougall]

sloonei just wont quit, sloonei got a butt that wont quit

[Carotenoid]

I could share more information about my role, but I don't think it would be advantageous at this time. The extent of my claim is that I have a non-killing ability which I targeted tutuu with on Night 1. Do you believe me when I say this?

I don't know. I just... acknowledge it's a thing you said.

It certainly is.

What are your thoughts on wilgy and marcher? Is there another wagon we should be considering in addition to/instead of them?

DrWilgy: I'm still here. I'm not fan of the idea of making him a wagon right now when there's suspicious active players. However if I could go back to EoD 2 I would have voted him. (I actually wanted to do that last minute but I was too slow rip.)

Marcher Jovian: I liked their D1 and honestly their post-flip reaction won me over, I was townreading and ready to defend them back 100%
But then their D2 was really self-defensive and narrow-angled. I tried to get a better sense of them/make them saying something that would make me feel better about townreading them so strongly. It led to this post and it kinda had the opposite effect, especially the nutella line. It went from "kinda sketch" to "opportunistic" to "ill-founded", followed by townread for the mason thing but ended up with an indecisive/pushing back stance. Actually the whole post was a bunch of I don't know/pushing back. hmn. I... won't actively push their wagon, but will not mind at all if it becomes one (given that there's reasonable counterwagons)

I'm still baffled people find nutella's opportunism and perpetual contradictions townie
Also the action on Long Con is... Questionnable. I think he was never going to be a wagon today.

[Marcher Jovian]

nutella is like 80% of an innocent child just by role speculation, let's look at different suspects.
Mind poking at Lissa's and outed wolf's isos?

[nutella]

sup

moth says tony is bad. Do you believe him?

i mean

it's possible he's right but i'm not particularly compelled by the claim

and i kinda just think tony's a villager

What makes you read tony favorably?

kinda just feel like he's not on a team? his variety of disconnectedness and scattered thought dropping/thought jumping feels honest

hmmm this makes sense actually

but he could definitely fake that as well

So let me get this right the wagons yesterday were wilgy and a doctor role, the doctor role died over the doctor name, and today there’s....zero interest in the player the doctor role was killed over?

K.

ugh

yeah

[VOTE: drwilgy] aubergine

So let me get this right the wagons yesterday were wilgy and a doctor role, the doctor role died over the doctor name, and today there’s....zero interest in the player the doctor role was killed over?

K.

i don't understand it either

You’re on marcher! You’re part of the problem! I don’t understand this game!

i mean. i'm also wolfreading wilgy. marcher is just more actively wolfy and their wagon should never have disappeared yesterday

cmon man

mmmf

weak


hmmmmm

idk what i think makes sense here but

lolpreflips

[outed wolf]

nutella is wolfy change my mind

every time i see her posts it just feels like a wolf

[Marcher Jovian]

nutella is wolfy change my mind

every time i see her posts it just feels like a wolf

nutella is un-cc'd and dunya's said her role is pretty likely town. Like maybe later it's worth reevaluating that claim but rn I think there's better avenues to go down.

[outed wolf]

nutella is wolfy change my mind

every time i see her posts it just feels like a wolf

nutella is un-cc'd and dunya's said her role is pretty likely town. Like maybe later it's worth reevaluating that claim but rn I think there's better avenues to go down.

i mean yes all these things are true

but she still feeeeeeeeeeeeeeels wolfy

[Lissa]

theres nothing wrong with my marcher progression and the fact that you are still hung up on it is ridiculous lissa

no it sucks

to the point that i hesitate some because i have to wonder why it isn't cleaner if you're a wolf

[Sloonei]

nutella is wolfy change my mind

every time i see her posts it just feels like a wolf

why?

[nutella]

You aren't actually evaluating lissa you are just saying things. I had a scumread on Turnip Head for days. My vote was the most justified vote out of everyones frankly. The optics are irrelevant and tbh the fact that they aren't good just makes me more town.

I had a scumread on Turnip Head for days. I moved off when they claimed doctor.

[nutella]

I see Dunya and Mac have finally seen the light of Lissa wolf [VOTE: Lissa] aubergine

hmmmmmnope

[Lissa]

Actually if anyone has a power that allows them to see other's stats there are some really cool situations we can force wolves into

Would be nice to have a couple of doctors on board. Then a rolechecker-type could claim, and every dead town member could give them all their Glory into Hope, and we could elevate those excellent roles into going off two, maybe even three times a night. That kind of idea is riddled with risks though.

aren't there multiple doctors already dead

one of which you were on the wagon of when they died

[nutella]

okay

I figure


if lissa is a wolf


she is wolf with jovian



lolpreflips

[nutella]

man remember how jovian/bronana/lissa are wolves together

hahaha

[nutella]

but like. wilgy also? that seems too easy overall


so




idk

[outed wolf]

theres nothing wrong with my marcher progression and the fact that you are still hung up on it is ridiculous lissa

no it sucks

to the point that i hesitate some because i have to wonder why it isn't cleaner if you're a wolf

no you sucks

[outed wolf]

bizarre that people fixate someone who has made 212 posts in this game, but motobot gets zero attention, macdougall (and nanook) has done somehow even less than me, TSP has done practically less than macdougall, longcon has actively avoided doing nothing, wilgy only decided to start playing at eod

is it just because i have made lots of posts that i stick in people's minds?

because fmpov there are plenty of people skating completely under the radar

[outed wolf]

er actively avoided doing anything rather

[Carotenoid]

nutella is like 80% of an innocent child just by role speculation, let's look at different suspects.
Mind poking at Lissa's and outed wolf's isos?

*This sign can't stop me if I can't read*

I'm guessing innocent child is host confirmed townie that might or might not be recruited by wolves/3P at one point or another?
Lissa's EoD felt super townie for me and nothing jumps as "bad". Her progression on me feels legit.
outed wolf is one of the rare persons also suspecting nutella so lolz. He's also one of the many persons that's being heated for not really contributing and this as a line of thought has been... underwhelming so far. 3P would make sense but I have no idea what 3P roles can be so I'll let others worry about this I guess

Also, speaking of roles, what is the lie detect thing about moth? Is there a list of roles played on this site?
Why in the world would moth check TonyStarkPrime's alignement when he's been consistently scumreading me for no reason?

[Lissa]

that long con post/line makes me feel even worse about his eod

[outed wolf]

now i'm not saying a lot of posts are solid gold or even that i have done a lot of work or am villagery

but the focus on me compared to the focus on those people doesn't seem right

ymmv

[nutella]

feel ~ok overall about sloonei eod

why?

decently wide range of thoughts about things that make sense to think about with some light depth that are all in brief succession/a short time period that make me somewhat inclined to believe you're thinking about actually trying to solve the game/have threads of thought going on

alright I probably shouldn't tinfoil this so much lissa is prob just town lol

[Sloonei]

bizarre that people fixate someone who has made 212 posts in this game, but motobot gets zero attention, macdougall (and nanook) has done somehow even less than me, TSP has done practically less than macdougall, longcon has actively avoided doing nothing, wilgy only decided to start playing at eod

is it just because i have made lots of posts that i stick in people's minds?

because fmpov there are plenty of people skating completely under the radar

No no no. You have made a decent number of posts but done relatively little in that space. That is why I am fixated on you. That is probably why others are fixated on you too, though I wouldn't want to speak for anyone else.

Have you read my case about you and marcher?

[nutella]

@Sloonei if you are wrong about your current reads, what does that change for you? I.e. if you were just told you you are wrong with no context, what lines of thought would you fault and what would shift?

it's questions like these that make me feel very

like, such an openended question that doesn't feel like it will offer a resolution or help wilgy specifically in anything but maybe i'm just programmed differently and maybe sloonei's amazing 12 word response shattered his world.

They disapointed me.

Simply put, there's two players that I feel if I'm incorrect, these two are the most likely for me be incorrect on. 'What if I'm wrong' is a good practice as it helps me re-frame my thinking.

I have a good read on Sloonei and a bad read on Moth. Sloonei is following a very pro-town discussion process imo (asking the right questions and bringing up the correct subjects for a game to progress in town's favor). Moth is abnormally easy to read in a scum voice and very difficult to read in a civ voice. YET, if I'm wrong about my reads, I think it's these two.

For clarity sake: These reads aren't reliant of each other. I don't see any current relation between either of their alignments or if I'm wrong on one it doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong on the other.

hm

weird vibes bro

[Lissa]

just a completely incongruent mindset with yeeting the doc claim/staying on after it

especially since he didn't seem to think multiple docs would be weird at all

[outed wolf]

I'm playing Pyre right now, so I can't really post.

I'm voting for The Pyrehearts though.

Hey everyone, how you guys doing?

Since the voice said it I'm going to vote wilgy lol

If you want to ask me something mention me.

Hey everyone, how you guys doing?

Since the voice said it I'm going to vote wilgy lol

If you want to ask me something mention me.

@motobot, a lot of people think you're bad because you're not posting anything.

do you want to read someone at random and tell us what you think of them?

Okay

Wasn't my fault.

Who are the scribes and what's going on?

On Night 1, Long Con opened a portal to the Upside Down, and DrWilgy was sadly swallowed by the resulting black hole. He was replaced with an alternate universe's DrWilgy, but we all knew he was from an alternate universe since we saw the original DrWilgy disappear. DrWilgy2 went kinda crazy due to the trauma, and Long Con mercifully wiped his memory. Unbeknownst to the rest of us however, Long Con injected the newly wiped DrWilgy2 with fake memories, causing him to become the perfect wolf-hunting killing machine, only he doesn't remember any of that.

Who's bad?

And this spikes both my dread and spawns an identity issue.

Neat!

Not sure yet, but do we have reference to afew cases, or points of contention?

I'm trying to find a good spot to catch up from. Maybe 10 or so pages ago.

This post makes me think DrWilgy is bad because he would not want for his teammates to die

Moving my vote to [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine for now out of self-pres and because it's a bleh slot that isn't a big loss, whereas Marcher is...I mean, I don't find him very townie, but I also don't know him and want him to not die super early in his first Syndicate game.

Rude

I definitely think DrWilgy is bad because we know that Master Radishes is good and he said RUDE!

@motobot

can you read thousands of posts please

no

Ill be back later

This post makes me think DrWilgy is bad because he would not want for his teammates to die

Hey @motobot who's the teammate you're talking about?

the evil people

this is the sum contribution of motobot to this game.

what the ever loving fuck are we doing.

why is this slot still alive.

why is nobody talking about this slot.

do you just take the 75%er at start of game and hope they're a villager?

what the fuck are we doing.

[nutella]

(pretty rainbows)

this


actually makes me townread visor more lol

[outed wolf]

tell me what i am supposed to do with that slot.

wait for him to come good on d6?

[nutella]

could sloonei do this as a wolf

he absolutely could and would


I think he's most likely town here though?

I have had doubts at various points in this game so I still have a bit of paranoia but

he's prob fine

[outed wolf]

why am i literally the only person who has had concerns over that slot the entire game

this is three FULL DAY PHASES WHERE HE HAS DONE NOTHING.

LITERALLY NOTHING.

[Sloonei]

(pretty rainbows)

this


actually makes me townread visor more lol

How so? I definitely did not draw a definitive conclusion from all that, so I'm interested in hearing thoughts on it.

[Sloonei]

why am i literally the only person who has had concerns over that slot the entire game

this is three FULL DAY PHASES WHERE HE HAS DONE NOTHING.

LITERALLY NOTHING.

There is not much to be said.

[outed wolf]

why am i literally the only person who has had concerns over that slot the entire game

this is three FULL DAY PHASES WHERE HE HAS DONE NOTHING.

LITERALLY NOTHING.

There is not much to be said.

is he a wolf?
is he a villager?

does he normally not play games he signs up for?

what do you normally do with this slot?

[Sloonei]

why am i literally the only person who has had concerns over that slot the entire game

this is three FULL DAY PHASES WHERE HE HAS DONE NOTHING.

LITERALLY NOTHING.

There is not much to be said.

is he a wolf?
is he a villager?

does he normally not play games he signs up for?

what do you normally do with this slot?

Idk. It is easier to resolve him when we have a clearer picture of the game. If we eliminate two wolves and have trouble connecting them to anyone else, motobot can become a very viable suspect. If we eliminate two wolves and have a healthy POE then we don't need to fret so much.

He has an easier time following along when the numbers dwindle, I think.

[Sloonei]

Do you have a response to any of the things I have said about you?

[nutella]

theres nothing wrong with my marcher progression and the fact that you are still hung up on it is ridiculous lissa

no it sucks

to the point that i hesitate some because i have to wonder why it isn't cleaner if you're a wolf

I feel this yeah

partially because I know my own progression of marcher is also questionable


waterfalls etc etc

[nutella]

that long con post/line makes me feel even worse about his eod

which?

[Long Con]

nutella is wolfy change my mind

every time i see her posts it just feels like a wolf

nutella is un-cc'd and dunya's said her role is pretty likely town. Like maybe later it's worth reevaluating that claim but rn I think there's better avenues to go down.

i mean yes all these things are true

but she still feeeeeeeeeeeeeeels wolfy

She felt very towny in a recent game where she devoured us. This could be a good thing.

Actually if anyone has a power that allows them to see other's stats there are some really cool situations we can force wolves into

Would be nice to have a couple of doctors on board. Then a rolechecker-type could claim, and every dead town member could give them all their Glory into Hope, and we could elevate those excellent roles into going off two, maybe even three times a night. That kind of idea is riddled with risks though.

aren't there multiple doctors already dead

one of which you were on the wagon of when they died

Yes, I know, I understood that when I posted that.

[Carotenoid]

Does anyone understand what motobot means by : "This post makes me think DrWilgy is bad because he would not want for his teammates to die"

I just don't know what he means at all wrt the post he quoted

[Lissa]

that long con post/line makes me feel even worse about his eod

which?

the doctors thing

[Long Con]

that long con post/line makes me feel even worse about his eod

which?

Where I responded to Sloonei about my less-than-stellar-looking eod. Not surprising. I can't defend it, it was bad.

[Long Con]

that long con post/line makes me feel even worse about his eod

which?

the doctors thing

Oh! No, that was said with the full knowledge of the reality, and the assumption that it would be understood that I was aware of it.

[nutella]

that long con post/line makes me feel even worse about his eod

which?

the doctors thing

Oh! No, that was said with the full knowledge of the reality, and the assumption that it would be understood that I was aware of it.

ngl I didn't follow it at all but i'm just gonna assume it doesnt matter