Pyre Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Lissa]

what does "perspective slipped" mean?

TH literally claimed doctor and people were still on their wagon. what does that tell you about people on TH's wagon?

TH didn't claim doctor. They made a weird, ambiguous statement that if you look at it and think about it for a while, you could eventually realize it's a doctor claim. Why that ambiguity. Why make such a weird soft when you're 10 minutes from being banished and just hard claiming "I'm a doctor" would work much better at actually doing what you presumably want and getting people off of your wagon?

I didn't think it was ambiguous. There's no way "90% similar to radishes' role" doesn't mean doctor in some form.

tbh when I was evaling I'd thought it might have been your role, stopping the day banish as a counterpart to stopping the night banish

But then people started wondering "maybe it's a doctor claim?" and Turnip never corrected it so that theory went dead

stopping the day banish isn't really similar though

it was pretty clear imo

Literally all you'd have to do was replace the word "night" with "day"

i mean, linguistically similar, yes?

the effect isn't really of the same nature at all, which was my actual point

[Marcher Jovian]

TH didn't claim doctor. They made a weird, ambiguous statement that if you look at it and think about it for a while, you could eventually realize it's a doctor claim. Why that ambiguity. Why make such a weird soft when you're 10 minutes from being banished and just hard claiming "I'm a doctor" would work much better at actually doing what you presumably want and getting people off of your wagon?

I didn't think it was ambiguous. There's no way "90% similar to radishes' role" doesn't mean doctor in some form.

tbh when I was evaling I'd thought it might have been your role, stopping the day banish as a counterpart to stopping the night banish

But then people started wondering "maybe it's a doctor claim?" and Turnip never corrected it so that theory went dead

stopping the day banish isn't really similar though

it was pretty clear imo

Literally all you'd have to do was replace the word "night" with "day"

i mean, linguistically similar, yes?

the effect isn't really of the same nature at all, which was my actual point

I think this proves my point that Turnip's claim was ambiguous AF

[bronana]

why would a wolf ever claim the way turnip did

[bronana]

"yes, my role is very similar to the dead villager, it's kinda awkward lol"

i dunno how that sounds like a wolf making up a claim to save themselves. it's a terrible fake claim.

[Marcher Jovian]

why would a wolf ever claim the way turnip did

To have cover for when they don't instantly die to the nk

[Marcher Jovian]

why would a wolf ever claim the way turnip did

To have cover for when they don't instantly die to the nk

you know thinking in retrospect, a hard claim would have been forced out of TH anyways overnight, so this line of thinking was actually kinda dumb

[bronana]

why would a wolf ever claim the way turnip did

To have cover for when they don't instantly die to the nk

nutella claimed a pr, is townread by most, and the top poster. didn't die to the nk.

You called her almost an innocent child earlier, no?

[Marcher Jovian]

Guess that's one of the little hitches that come up when night talk is allowed

[bronana]

nutella is like 80% of an innocent child just by role speculation, let's look at different suspects.
Mind poking at Lissa's and outed wolf's isos?

[bronana]

to me, it looks like you jsut wanted to kill a pr. sorry if i'm wrong but that's how it appears to me.

[Marcher Jovian]

why would a wolf ever claim the way turnip did

To have cover for when they don't instantly die to the nk

nutella claimed a pr, is townread by most, and the top poster. didn't die to the nk.

You called her almost an innocent child earlier, no?

mafia pretty much always has to nk the doctor the moment they find out. They don't really have to kill the yeet blocker until lylo

[Marcher Jovian]

Like considering glory exists, everyone's likely a pr of some sort. "Claiming a pr" doesn't exactly make you a must-kill target. Claiming doctor does.

[Lissa]

I didn't think it was ambiguous. There's no way "90% similar to radishes' role" doesn't mean doctor in some form.

tbh when I was evaling I'd thought it might have been your role, stopping the day banish as a counterpart to stopping the night banish

But then people started wondering "maybe it's a doctor claim?" and Turnip never corrected it so that theory went dead

stopping the day banish isn't really similar though

it was pretty clear imo

Literally all you'd have to do was replace the word "night" with "day"

i mean, linguistically similar, yes?

the effect isn't really of the same nature at all, which was my actual point

I think this proves my point that Turnip's claim was ambiguous AF

no, no it really doesn't

[bronana]

why would a wolf ever claim the way turnip did

To have cover for when they don't instantly die to the nk

nutella claimed a pr, is townread by most, and the top poster. didn't die to the nk.

You called her almost an innocent child earlier, no?

mafia pretty much always has to nk the doctor the moment they find out. They don't really have to kill the yeet blocker until lylo

so you see why i am suspicious of people who pounced on the opportunity to kill a doctor without having to use a nk, right?

[Lissa]

"yes, my role is very similar to the dead villager, it's kinda awkward lol"

i dunno how that sounds like a wolf making up a claim to save themselves. it's a terrible fake claim.

yep

[bronana]

what do you think of carot's d3 so far, lissa?

[DrWilgy]

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

What are your thoughts regarding the shift from wagons forming on you to wagons on me? Why is this happening if you are civ? Twice now you are the third where I get put ahead of you and behind someone else.

[Marcher Jovian]

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

What are your thoughts regarding the shift from wagons forming on you to wagons on me? Why is this happening if you are civ? Twice now you are the third where I get put ahead of you and behind someone else.

Because I've had a mix of people either defending me or at least calling me null but with potential, while you've done basically nothing of consequence all game. When push comes to shove, the second wagon will go further than the first.

[Lissa]

what do you think of carot's d3 so far, lissa?

i opened up her iso to review it having a bit of vague concern since i feel like i don't remember much she's done today

but she has some decent thoughts and i kinda have a feel she is on an island a little bit? that isn't really the correct word, but i keep thinking "original thoughts" staring at her posts but then feeling like that's kind of a dumb description, but

i guess i just feel like she's thinking about things, she's a believable mix of self assured and uncertain, i just feel like she believes in how she's interacting with sloonei

[DrWilgy]

Voted TSP. Still don't think I'm seeing his civ game.

Could vote KZA, Jovian, Moth or OW as well at this point.

Swingin TSP feels right as it's KZA's birthday, don't wanna vote the same direction as Bronana and OW on Jovian, my Moth read is more shaky than the others and I'm doubting my OW read.

[Lissa]

what do you think of carot's d3 so far, lissa?

i opened up her iso to review it having a bit of vague concern since i feel like i don't remember much she's done today

but she has some decent thoughts and i kinda have a feel she is on an island a little bit? that isn't really the correct word, but i keep thinking "original thoughts" staring at her posts but then feeling like that's kind of a dumb description, but

i guess i just feel like she's thinking about things, she's a believable mix of self assured and uncertain, i just feel like she believes in how she's interacting with sloonei

the whole way she's handled her issues with sloonei/nutella feels real to me

[Lissa]

macdougall has 300 posts of all one liners. reminds me of a champ wolf game (zack, lissa).

i was impressed with his villageriness on d2 of the anzac game, but perhaps he had a lot more enthusiasm for that game.

i would really appreciate some mac experts talking to me about this and explaining what this means for him metawise (i don't want to dig!). the man has done less solving than me!

i barely remember what champ's meta looks like

i have significant issues with his static tunnel of me though

[Long Con]

What kind of doctor ever acts like that at eod. They're a doctor, they have a strong pr. They shouldn't be afraid of getting banished. What was up with that whole "you'll be weirded out when my role flips" act. TH was a doctor, they were highly wagoned, if they claim and live they basically force the mafia to nk them.

what does the underlined portion of this post mean?

Because if someone is a doctor, then they know they have a get-out-of-banishment-free card. TH perspective slipped when they said that we were going to be surprised when we flipped because if they were a doctor, they would have known they could have gotten out of it.

what does "perspective slipped" mean?

TH literally claimed doctor and people were still on their wagon. what does that tell you about people on TH's wagon?

Trust issues...?

What kind of doctor ever acts like that at eod. They're a doctor, they have a strong pr. They shouldn't be afraid of getting banished. What was up with that whole "you'll be weirded out when my role flips" act. TH was a doctor, they were highly wagoned, if they claim and live they basically force the mafia to nk them.

what does the underlined portion of this post mean?

Because if someone is a doctor, then they know they have a get-out-of-banishment-free card. TH perspective slipped when they said that we were going to be surprised when we flipped because if they were a doctor, they would have known they could have gotten out of it.

what does "perspective slipped" mean?

TH literally claimed doctor and people were still on their wagon. what does that tell you about people on TH's wagon?

TH didn't claim doctor. They made a weird, ambiguous statement that if you look at it and think about it for a while, you could eventually realize it's a doctor claim. Why that ambiguity. Why make such a weird soft when you're 10 minutes from being banished and just hard claiming "I'm a doctor" would work much better at actually doing what you presumably want and getting people off of your wagon?

I didn't think it was ambiguous. There's no way "90% similar to radishes' role" doesn't mean doctor in some form.

Of course, my vote is worth less than one, so this very close lynch could go either way.

shit now I wish I'd gone back to th

you said you had wished you'd moved to TH after votes locked. so were you wanting to vote him despite their claim they were a doctor in some form?

That is a very good point. nutella, if you're town, maybe get off your high horse. However, would a wolf with TMI going on say this? Maybe a nutella wolf. Maybe it was a case of Raw Naked Honesty, and wolf nutella was worried that the doctor wasn't going to be yeeted. That's probably silly though. I still have strong reservations about nutella's alignment.

I was looking over that yeet and a couple of posts stuck out to me:

Don’t buy this last second claim

Jovian works to fuel the mistrust of TH's doc claim, and then votes right after Sloonei does.

cliffs plz

TH claims doc, I recommend voting for the other doctor in the house

but i'm doc?

Mac, funny guy or trying to fuck things up? I recall this ha-ha-claim muddying the waters around TH's legit claim. I saw lissa's confused reaction as well in the reread. It's like at the end of Life Of Brian, when they want to release Brian. "I'm Brian and so's my wife!" And TH was left up on the cross.

[bronana]

hmmm

starting to wonder if Jovian / TSP / Mac are all wolves and Wilgy is just bait.

It's also possible all four are wolves.

[Carotenoid]

Why are people voting Lissa?

Marcher Jovian and DrWilgy both said they could vote the other, but neither of them did... Hmmmn.

[bronana]

why are long con or macdougall not wolves?

open question

[Marcher Jovian]

Why are people voting Lissa?

Marcher Jovian and DrWilgy both said they could vote the other, but neither of them did... Hmmmn.

Because if I move my vote the Lissa wagon goes away

[Lissa]

why are long con or macdougall not wolves?

open question

they probably are

[Lissa]

my wagon isn't even a real wagon anyway lol

nobody else is ever going to end up on it

there's not much there to keep alive

[nutella]

"yes, my role is very similar to the dead villager, it's kinda awkward lol"

i dunno how that sounds like a wolf making up a claim to save themselves. it's a terrible fake claim.

yeah also this

[nutella]

why would a wolf ever claim the way turnip did

To have cover for when they don't instantly die to the nk

nutella claimed a pr, is townread by most, and the top poster. didn't die to the nk.

You called her almost an innocent child earlier, no?

mafia pretty much always has to nk the doctor the moment they find out. They don't really have to kill the yeet blocker until lylo

mafia also have more potential benefit in keeping me around -- if my reads are bad, I buff them


not true for doctor unless there's non-mafia kp which we haven't seen any evidence of

[Marcher Jovian]

"yes, my role is very similar to the dead villager, it's kinda awkward lol"

i dunno how that sounds like a wolf making up a claim to save themselves. it's a terrible fake claim.

yeah also this

What other possible explanation was there?

[DrWilgy]

Why are people voting Lissa?

Marcher Jovian and DrWilgy both said they could vote the other, but neither of them did... Hmmmn.

Please define that Hmmm? Would you say that my reasoning is invalid?

[Marcher Jovian]

"yes, my role is very similar to the dead villager, it's kinda awkward lol"

i dunno how that sounds like a wolf making up a claim to save themselves. it's a terrible fake claim.

yeah also this

What other possible explanation was there?

I mean in retrospect the I think the answer was probably "TH didn't understand their own role" which I didn't consider a possiblity at the time.

[nutella]

"yes, my role is very similar to the dead villager, it's kinda awkward lol"

i dunno how that sounds like a wolf making up a claim to save themselves. it's a terrible fake claim.

yeah also this

What other possible explanation was there?

I mean in retrospect the I think the answer was probably "TH didn't understand their own role" which I didn't consider a possiblity at the time.

i really just


do not understand your grasp of this, at all

[Marcher Jovian]

"yes, my role is very similar to the dead villager, it's kinda awkward lol"

i dunno how that sounds like a wolf making up a claim to save themselves. it's a terrible fake claim.

yeah also this

What other possible explanation was there?

I mean in retrospect the I think the answer was probably "TH didn't understand their own role" which I didn't consider a possiblity at the time.

i really just


do not understand your grasp of this, at all

"Scummy person who did scummy things made a weird vague claim at EoD. I do not buy the claim and vote it"

[DrWilgy]

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

What are your thoughts regarding the shift from wagons forming on you to wagons on me? Why is this happening if you are civ? Twice now you are the third where I get put ahead of you and behind someone else.

Because I've had a mix of people either defending me or at least calling me null but with potential, while you've done basically nothing of consequence all game. When push comes to shove, the second wagon will go further than the first.

The hell does this mean?

[Marcher Jovian]

@Marcher Jovian I appreciate your willingness to explain what your mindset was earlier. That's something that people have trouble doing sometimes. But I'd also like to see evidence that you are re-assessing the votes from yesterday in retrospect. Turnip Head was banished and flipped civilian. What does that mean for us on Day 3 and beyond? Specifically, what does it mean about DrWilgy?

DrWilgy is probably being defended by mafia. No one's really defending him and no one outwardly cares whether he lives or dies. It's all been circumstancial. If we just wanted to turn around and go "Let's yeet Wilgy today" and enough people agree it's gonna happen. The one qualm I have is looking at the wagons, it's Wilgy vs. Radishes (vs. Carote) d1, and it's Wilgy vs. Turnip d2. If you're mafia and you get to pick the winner, it still doesn't rule out Wilgy LHF because mafia wants Radishes dead before he can ramp up and if they're behind yeet Turnip they probably believed the claim.

Maybe I'm just overthinking things and should just sheep Ted's thoughts and vote Wilgy.

What are your thoughts regarding the shift from wagons forming on you to wagons on me? Why is this happening if you are civ? Twice now you are the third where I get put ahead of you and behind someone else.

Because I've had a mix of people either defending me or at least calling me null but with potential, while you've done basically nothing of consequence all game. When push comes to shove, the second wagon will go further than the first.

The hell does this mean?

It means I do not remember anything you've done

[Marcher Jovian]

Like you've said words and stuff, but you haven't done like any pushes or interrogations or stepped into tunnels or anything

[Marcher Jovian]

Like you've done jack to advance gamestate

[MacDougall]

What

[Marcher Jovian]

Like you've said words and stuff, but you haven't done like any pushes or interrogations or stepped into tunnels or anything

You haven't tried to get someone to consensus town, you haven't tried to stop a yeet

[Carotenoid]

Why are people voting Lissa?

Marcher Jovian and DrWilgy both said they could vote the other, but neither of them did... Hmmmn.

Please define that Hmmm? Would you say that my reasoning is invalid?

The 2 wagons that have traction right now and you and Marcher Jovian.
I'm wondering if you could be w/w and you're both trying to create/maintain other wagons while also being ready to vote each other, which looks suspicious to me.

[dunya]

Like you've done jack to advance gamestate

i think that is an incredibly harsh assessment of wilgy's position in this game. even if they are wolf, they've been on the lynch wagon two days in a row. of course the bulk of their posts are going to be of a defensive nature. this feels underhanded and almost w/w because of how casually you threw it out to someone you've never played with and know from us that his meta is a lowposting player in either alignment.

dislike.

[Carotenoid]

[mention]Marcher Jovian[/mention] Lissa wagon is probably not happening. Where are you voting?

[dunya]

wow me and carot just had a mindmeld moment. *high five sis*

[Marcher Jovian]

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Fine I'll stop talking and let you go do things

[MacDougall]

I sense fangs

[dunya]

[VOTE: Marcher Jovian] aubergine

[Long Con]

I'm happy with the Jovian wagon.