Cartomancy [Game Over]

[Dennis]

This game has been such a rollercoaster and we haven't even gotten to the actual special part, the whole cards thing

[sig]

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

What are your reasons if I may?

You may not.

Joking!

1.Idr who argued it, but pointing out that wolf!Alison would definitely push slankers with agenda really resonated with me, coupled with other things that are reminiscent of scum!Alison (aggressive pushes that kinda seem to be more about decreasing thread morale than hunting, for example)

and

2. ties are fun, which is why I...
[VOTE: Baudib] aubergine

Normally I agree, but you’re aware ties are decided by mafia right?

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

What are your reasons if I may?

You may not.

Joking!

1.Idr who argued it, but pointing out that wolf!Alison would definitely push slankers with agenda really resonated with me, coupled with other things that are reminiscent of scum!Alison (aggressive pushes that kinda seem to be more about decreasing thread morale than hunting, for example)

and

2. ties are fun, which is why I...
[VOTE: Baudib] aubergine

Normally I agree, but you’re aware ties are decided by mafia right?

Oh yes, I am aware.

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

What are your reasons if I may?

You may not.

Joking!

1.Idr who argued it, but pointing out that wolf!Alison would definitely push slankers with agenda really resonated with me, coupled with other things that are reminiscent of scum!Alison (aggressive pushes that kinda seem to be more about decreasing thread morale than hunting, for example)

and

2. ties are fun, which is why I...
[VOTE: Baudib] aubergine

Ties are less fun this game, SpaceDaze said something about them being Maf sided.

[VOTE: baudi] aubergine

[Dennis]

Almost certainly town

lucy (she/her)

Town

DrWilgy (he/him)
Seanzie (he/him or they/them)
Neon (she/her)
tutuu (any)

Townlean

Roxy (she/her)
falcon45ca (he/him)
Creature (I accidentally deleted your pronouns sorry)
fingersplints (she/her)
MacDougall (he/him)
Porscha (she/her)
sig (he/him)
Bereft (he/him)
staypositivefriend (she/her)


Scum lean
Kate (she/her)
RondoDimBuckle (Accidentally deleted your pronouns too sorry)

Mafia
Alison (she/her)
Baudib1 (he/him)
Jackofhearts2005 (he/him)

I... am now beginning to grasp just how disconnected I really am to this game. I'm not happy with this at all. I will tryhardwr. Very sorry town. Also sorry for delay between last post, I was transitioning into my lunch period.

Lucy is under 'ALMOST certain' because there's always the teeniest chance she lied about Oracle. But I doubt it. Ask for elaboration on other reads and I will try.

I think a few people in the town lean section of this I would move to a null section to be fully honest, but I felt like I couldn't have null reads after so much happened. But I would drop:

sig (he/him)
Bereft (he/him)
Creature (I accidentally deleted your pronouns sorry)
Porscha (she/her)

to a null read. I like to think people are town because hopeful thinking so maybe that's a part of it too.

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

To conserve posts this is the last time I'm going to call a vote on Alison/Baudib if Falcon moves, and instead I'm just going to move to keep the wagons tied.

[Seanzie]

Almost certainly town

lucy (she/her)

Town

DrWilgy (he/him)
Seanzie (he/him or they/them)
Neon (she/her)
tutuu (any)

Townlean

Roxy (she/her)
falcon45ca (he/him)
Creature (I accidentally deleted your pronouns sorry)
fingersplints (she/her)
MacDougall (he/him)
Porscha (she/her)
sig (he/him)
Bereft (he/him)
staypositivefriend (she/her)


Scum lean
Kate (she/her)
RondoDimBuckle (Accidentally deleted your pronouns too sorry)

Mafia
Alison (she/her)
Baudib1 (he/him)
Jackofhearts2005 (he/him)

I... am now beginning to grasp just how disconnected I really am to this game. I'm not happy with this at all. I will tryhardwr. Very sorry town. Also sorry for delay between last post, I was transitioning into my lunch period.

Lucy is under 'ALMOST certain' because there's always the teeniest chance she lied about Oracle. But I doubt it. Ask for elaboration on other reads and I will try.

I think a few people in the town lean section of this I would move to a null section to be fully honest, but I felt like I couldn't have null reads after so much happened. But I would drop:

sig (he/him)
Bereft (he/him)
Creature (I accidentally deleted your pronouns sorry)
Porscha (she/her)

to a null read. I like to think people are town because hopeful thinking so maybe that's a part of it too.

Why am I so solidly town?

[Dennis]

Almost certainly town

lucy (she/her)

Town

DrWilgy (he/him)
Seanzie (he/him or they/them)
Neon (she/her)
tutuu (any)

Townlean

Roxy (she/her)
falcon45ca (he/him)
Creature (I accidentally deleted your pronouns sorry)
fingersplints (she/her)
MacDougall (he/him)
Porscha (she/her)
sig (he/him)
Bereft (he/him)
staypositivefriend (she/her)


Scum lean
Kate (she/her)
RondoDimBuckle (Accidentally deleted your pronouns too sorry)

Mafia
Alison (she/her)
Baudib1 (he/him)
Jackofhearts2005 (he/him)

I... am now beginning to grasp just how disconnected I really am to this game. I'm not happy with this at all. I will tryhardwr. Very sorry town. Also sorry for delay between last post, I was transitioning into my lunch period.

Lucy is under 'ALMOST certain' because there's always the teeniest chance she lied about Oracle. But I doubt it. Ask for elaboration on other reads and I will try.

I think a few people in the town lean section of this I would move to a null section to be fully honest, but I felt like I couldn't have null reads after so much happened. But I would drop:

sig (he/him)
Bereft (he/him)
Creature (I accidentally deleted your pronouns sorry)
Porscha (she/her)

to a null read. I like to think people are town because hopeful thinking so maybe that's a part of it too.

Why am I so solidly town?

I would like to say, which I probably should have done before, these are just groups. These are not in any specific order within the groups. But your play is very much reminding me of the other games I've played with you, where you were civ. There was no one specific point that was like... Oh yeah Seanzie's good. It just grew on me.

[Dennis]

Neon just voted Alison, saying this because she already hit post cap.

[Baudib1]

I’m inferring that Neon is an experienced player so I find it hard to believe she believes some of these arguments she’s making about Alison. Alison’s casing of Roxy was pretty tame, it’s hard to imagine Neon hasn’t seen worse than every single game of mafia ever.
It doesn’t seem to me that she is considering alignments and just trying to highlight the worst of people.

[Dennis]

Alison’s casing of Roxy was pretty tame

If that was her being tame I think I would just melt if she got actually mad at me. Like immediately there is a puddle on the floor of Dennis liquid. That was the most aggressive argument I have seen on this site (thought I've only played 3 games), all I could really see was her pushing Roxy's buttons in just the right way to make her flip out. I know I would have started getting physically nervous and sweating and all that if I was in Roxy's spot.

[Baudib1]

Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

[robyn]

Alison should never die d1, baudib is towny and he's playing towny, those wagons suck

jack
porscha
Roxy
neon

@MacDougall @Alison @staypositivefriend try to pick a name here and drop a small case on them and include your confidence, i'll read their iso's among other things

and today i want to choose the lynch because of how horrible the wagons are now, and because of the 5 mafia that exist

[robyn]

@tutuu i never suspected you, you were just bottom of vc
@Neon keep on voting jack, thanks

[Jackofhearts2005]

Alison should never die d1, baudib is towny and he's playing towny, those wagons suck

jack
porscha
Roxy
neon

@MacDougall @Alison @staypositivefriend try to pick a name here and drop a small case on them and include your confidence, i'll read their iso's among other things

and today i want to choose the lynch because of how horrible the wagons are now, and because of the 5 mafia that exist

People told me this in the game I linked to when she was a wolf acting exactly the way she is now. Frustrating.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

I'm literally leading a yeet on a wolf right now. How much more useful do you expect me to be?

[Baudib1]

Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

I'm literally leading a yeet on a wolf right now. How much more useful do you expect me to be?

Jack: you and I both know, so just remember when we play another game for higher stakes, bub.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

I'm literally leading a yeet on a wolf right now. How much more useful do you expect me to be?

Jack: you and I both know, so just remember when we play another game for higher stakes, bub.

Your push on me is so ill advised that you've become a bigger wagon than me even without me pushing you at all.

Everything you're complaining about me doing, you're doing. I'm not doing enough by just pushing Alison? You're not doing enough by just pushing me.

Only I'm pushing a wolf and you're pushing a townie. If you really are town and you really can't get over this, at least do something else useful so people stop thinking you're a wolf.

[sig]

Alison should never die d1, baudib is towny and he's playing towny, those wagons suck

jack
porscha
Roxy
neon

@MacDougall @Alison @staypositivefriend try to pick a name here and drop a small case on them and include your confidence, i'll read their iso's among other things

and today i want to choose the lynch because of how horrible the wagons are now, and because of the 5 mafia that exist

If you want to lead a lynch build a case on someone and convince us why they’re bad that simple.

You being cleared is meaningless when it comes to decision making

[Baudib1]

Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

I'm literally leading a yeet on a wolf right now. How much more useful do you expect me to be?

Jack: you and I both know, so just remember when we play another game for higher stakes, bub.

Your push on me is so ill advised that you've become a bigger wagon than me even without me pushing you at all.

Everything you're complaining about me doing, you're doing. I'm not doing enough by just pushing Alison? You're not doing enough by just pushing me.

Only I'm pushing a wolf and you're pushing a townie. If you really are town and you really can't get over this, at least do something else useful so people stop thinking you're a wolf.

Bub you can’t even make a half-convincing case that you’re unaware of my alignment. I’m not the one trolling the thread with useless nonsense. I have plenty of other thoughts on other people in the game, and you don’t.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

I'm literally leading a yeet on a wolf right now. How much more useful do you expect me to be?

Jack: you and I both know, so just remember when we play another game for higher stakes, bub.

Your push on me is so ill advised that you've become a bigger wagon than me even without me pushing you at all.

Everything you're complaining about me doing, you're doing. I'm not doing enough by just pushing Alison? You're not doing enough by just pushing me.

Only I'm pushing a wolf and you're pushing a townie. If you really are town and you really can't get over this, at least do something else useful so people stop thinking you're a wolf.

Bub you can’t even make a half-convincing case that you’re unaware of my alignment. I’m not the one trolling the thread with useless nonsense. I have plenty of other thoughts on other people in the game, and you don’t.

You are frustrating.

[staypositivefriend]

Creature and Alison are terrible votes today.


@MacDougall @staypositivefriend
I realize it’s inevitable but I dislike meta reads since they are obviously exploitable and mutable and regardless of what you think of Creature’s game, he is indeed playing the game and at least giving the appearance of trying to discern alignments, which is more than what 3/4 of the player list is doing. Also multiple people here claim to be master reads of Creature, who becomes obvtown or obvwolf later in the game. Let’s find a Wolfy player who isn’t doing anything.

okay

can you sell me on a jack vote without using meta?

[Baudib1]

Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

I'm literally leading a yeet on a wolf right now. How much more useful do you expect me to be?

Jack: you and I both know, so just remember when we play another game for higher stakes, bub.

Your push on me is so ill advised that you've become a bigger wagon than me even without me pushing you at all.

Everything you're complaining about me doing, you're doing. I'm not doing enough by just pushing Alison? You're not doing enough by just pushing me.

Only I'm pushing a wolf and you're pushing a townie. If you really are town and you really can't get over this, at least do something else useful so people stop thinking you're a wolf.

Bub you can’t even make a half-convincing case that you’re unaware of my alignment. I’m not the one trolling the thread with useless nonsense. I have plenty of other thoughts on other people in the game, and you don’t.

You are frustrating.

Sure but you can’t actually articulate how or why I’m wrong.
Let’s say we agree that Alison’s wolf equity is non-zero (I would in fact agree), it’s impossible that you don’t fundamentally understand why she’s not a D1 yeet. If you want to fear kill her on D3, by all means.

I know that you know this.

[Baudib1]

To all towns:
Fundamentally the stagnation on high activity poster wagons (me/Allison) and the noted lack of interest in the jack wagon even while strong town voices (me, Mac, Alison, Lucy) are making cases on him should be triggering your wolfdar.
If Jack were pure there is enough town coverage for wolves to slip in among us (there aren’t multiple wolves very often in me, Mac/Alison/Lucy) to push for a Jack yeet if he’s town.

glgl

[Baudib1]

Creature and Alison are terrible votes today.


@MacDougall @staypositivefriend
I realize it’s inevitable but I dislike meta reads since they are obviously exploitable and mutable and regardless of what you think of Creature’s game, he is indeed playing the game and at least giving the appearance of trying to discern alignments, which is more than what 3/4 of the player list is doing. Also multiple people here claim to be master reads of Creature, who becomes obvtown or obvwolf later in the game. Let’s find a Wolfy player who isn’t doing anything.

okay

can you sell me on a jack vote without using meta?

His posts are howling and lack any genuine solving.

[staypositivefriend]

i swear to god that i saw a post from neon earlier where she asked me for my opinion on whether alison is playing like she played in king of the hill mafia and i can't find it and i feel like i'm having a stroke

but @Neon , assuming you did actually ask me that question,i don't really remember the specifics of how alison treated you in KOTH well enough to make a direct meta comparison

but one thing i will say is that while alison tends to be very confident and assertive as both alignments, i've noticed that she tends to be more stubborn and less willing to change her mind about certain reads as mafia, including the KOTH game. so, when i'm trying to read alison, there are a few primary things i'm looking at:

A. her results. this is one of the best metrics to read alison by. if alison kills or pushes on wolves within the first dayphase or two, she is usually a villager. if she doesn't, she is usually a wolf. there are exceptions to this rule, and it all needs to be taken contextually, but results are probably the best way to get an accurate read on a player like alison

B. her agenda (or, her flexibility). alison as a wolf has a very specific idea for how she wants games to play out, which means that she tends to be less open minded as scum and much less likely to change reads without being specifically prompted to. i think this is a good metric to read most players by, but it particularly fits for alison's playstyle

so, it's too early to judge alison by A, but if i'm judging her by B, i think she looks OK enough. i thought it was kind of towny that she randomly said that kate is a hard villager who townslipped when i don't see an obvious incentive for her to randomly change her mind like that as mafia

if alison is lining up kate for a mischop as mafia then i don't get why she would suddenly shift her positioning when kate was still being widely POE'd. if alison was lining up kate for a bus then i doubt alison would change her mind in such a jarring and blatant way. alison shifting her positioning in an unstrategic way is the biggest towntell she's had all day today

im not really confident in my ability to read alison but i thought it might be helpful to show how im thinking about her rn

[Bereft]

I suddenly understand Mac's Alison/Jack w/w tinfoil.

[Baudib1]

i swear to god that i saw a post from neon earlier where she asked me for my opinion on whether alison is playing like she played in king of the hill mafia and i can't find it and i feel like i'm having a stroke

but @Neon , assuming you did actually ask me that question,i don't really remember the specifics of how alison treated you in KOTH well enough to make a direct meta comparison

but one thing i will say is that while alison tends to be very confident and assertive as both alignments, i've noticed that she tends to be more stubborn and less willing to change her mind about certain reads as mafia, including the KOTH game. so, when i'm trying to read alison, there are a few primary things i'm looking at:

A. her results. this is one of the best metrics to read alison by. if alison kills or pushes on wolves within the first dayphase or two, she is usually a villager. if she doesn't, she is usually a wolf. there are exceptions to this rule, and it all needs to be taken contextually, but results are probably the best way to get an accurate read on a player like alison

B. her agenda (or, her flexibility). alison as a wolf has a very specific idea for how she wants games to play out, which means that she tends to be less open minded as scum and much less likely to change reads without being specifically prompted to. i think this is a good metric to read most players by, but it particularly fits for alison's playstyle

so, it's too early to judge alison by A, but if i'm judging her by B, i think she looks OK enough. i thought it was kind of towny that she randomly said that kate is a hard villager who townslipped when i don't see an obvious incentive for her to randomly change her mind like that as mafia

if alison is lining up kate for a mischop as mafia then i don't get why she would suddenly shift her positioning when kate was still being widely POE'd. if alison was lining up kate for a bus then i doubt alison would change her mind in such a jarring and blatant way. alison shifting her positioning in an unstrategic way is the biggest towntell she's had all day today

im not really confident in my ability to read alison but i thought it might be helpful to show how im thinking about her rn

Good post and the point about her change of mind on Kate is excellent. I’m not self-pressing on Alison so can you and Lucy figure out a better target?

[staypositivefriend]

i don't claim to have any level of confidence in reading alison correctly but i do honestly feel like the main reasons ive seen to justify voting her have been more related to her playstyle than her alignment

feels kind of icky

Does icky mean wrong or scummy in this context?

If scummy, who is scum pushing or voting Alison?

it means scummy, and it also means that if we live in a world where she's town (which i do perceive as being more likely right now than not) at least one of the people who wagoned her is a wolf trying to push on her opportunistically

and jack, i actually perceived your read on alison as being the most sincere out of everyone who has pushed on her so far, since you were more or less the "ringleader" for building momentum against her and i perceive you as being the main person who is projecting a lot of confidence about her being mafia

but your confidence is starting to bother me the more that i think about it. it's possible that you're right about alison but frankly i think your reasoning for pushing on alison is pretty bad. i don't think the things that you are pushing alison for (ie: "she is treating people in bad faith") are alignment indicative for alison, and i do expect you to understand that these things aren't alignment indicative as someone who has presumably played a lot of games with alison

so, while i think it's possible that your read onalison could be correct, your confidence about alison being mafia doesn't feel even slightly proportional to the actual casework you have done against her, and my memory of the other towngames i saw from you is that you were much more considerate and you had a much broader perspective than the one you are projecting here

so uhhh, i think what im going to need from you for me to not want to vote you today is for you to just talk to me very broadly about your reads that AREN'T alison. if alison was no longer on the table today, who would you want to eliminate? if we briefly assume for a moment that alison is town, what would ur view of the game look like?

[staypositivefriend]

[VOTE: Baudib] aubergine

@Dennis - explain this vote please

[Bereft]

Alison, Creature, Rondo, Baudi, Wilgy



That's been the pretty consistent wagons thus far this RD. Baudi thinks these are spectacularly bad...despite SR Wilgy for sure, and certainly shading Rondo...that's 2/5 he should have no issue w/ flipping, yet he acts like we've got spectacularly bad wagons.


I don't see how a town thinks like this

This is just so disingenuous.

[Creature]

Alison, Creature, Rondo, Baudi, Wilgy



That's been the pretty consistent wagons thus far this RD. Baudi thinks these are spectacularly bad...despite SR Wilgy for sure, and certainly shading Rondo...that's 2/5 he should have no issue w/ flipping, yet he acts like we've got spectacularly bad wagons.


I don't see how a town thinks like this

This is just so disingenuous.

Rondo and Wilgy didn't even get any consistent wagon. It has been mostly Alison, baudib1 and me all day.

[staypositivefriend]

@MacDougall @Luckbox Inc -

ur both good at reading porscha right? can you give me your thoughts on her?

i was under the impression she was mildly polarized which also admittedly means that i was lowering my bar for townreading ppl a lot when i was reading her. but ppl are saying she's still within her wolfrange so i'm confused now

Somebody do something to make me feel something.

I'm listening to Easy to Tame by Kim Mitchell, and got Rich Gurl by Hall & Oates qued up next.



Get hyped.



What's your take on Wilgy?

lol I think DrWilgy had a wolf list that feels like it's 0/3 so he can go

agree / retract my scumread on creature

I havent loved creature so far but this feels pockety towards him mostly because I already thought it was a weird sentiment from him but now you agree
But also why would mac want to pocket creature
...................... maybe I should just assume I'm not seeing what you're seeing and its townier than my instincts say it is
I imagine you'll explain the wilgy reads thing in a further post so I won't ask for now

i thought it was towny that porscha bounced between like 3 different conclusions in the same post, and the complexity of thought made me think she was genuinely trying to solve, but it's also true that this is a post that effectively communicates and expresses nothing, which is a trend with most of porscha's posts

I also dont think the beginning of the game was boring or that porscha v was the only read to be had.

+1

It gave me a weird feeling when I read it too and I didn't entirely understand the follow up on it but I see she's being tr'd after the fact and I dont really understand the tr's either
but maybe it's because I didnt feel like I was grasping the in between very well so maybe that's why I dont understand the conclusion

this post is very wheel-spinny and talks around me a lot without really communicating anything specific

hi neon do you have any thots

Always. Falcon is town it's a vibe thing.

You feel town so far and I totally won't kill you in F5.

Lucy feels like a villa trying to improve on things in their game they've been told are holding them back idk that's the vibe I'm getting.

I'm so obviously town it hurts.

SPF is meh to me on opening.

I don't like Alison's vibes atm but it's a weak vibe read.

I don't know if Mac believes his own reads right now but I kind of don't like them and that feels bad for me on a personal level because I usually feel some kind of connection to mac early where I'm like oh yeah I agree with this thought but I've not felt that here at all.

I have zero reasons to actually vote Seanzie but I'm gonna stay here for now anyways cause rvs. and cause if I vote Sean everytime they say town streakingeventually Sean will be scum and I can be all like told you Seanwas scum lmao

I also thought falcon's entrance was towny even by his standard of entry lol cuz normally I still have some doubt on every entry post he does but this time it actually sounded like..... I feel like normally he makes his entry post have something wolfy about it on purpose and this time it doesnt seem that way! unsure if he should actually be tr'd for that now that I think about it though

also what do you mean about mac not believing his own reads? it can't just be b/c you aren't mind melding with him on his reads, so what makes you think that?

i think i would like this post a lot more if porscha didn't conclude with: "unsure if he should actually be tr'd for that". i think the observation is complex in a way that shows some depth of thought though

Porscha town due to feeling comfortable and posting analysis already in this playerlist

This looks like a clean attempt to pocket imo.

I've considered it, but since I dont really think it makes a lot of sense for lucy to make the post about try harding (especially cuz I think she is aware that myself and likely some other players here see her try hard more as wolf and not as town) if shes wolfing, I already mentally had her sorted to the town side unless something egregious changes
But maybe I'm just happy to not have the mislynch train on me early for once so whatever it can be a tentative tr that I'll keep in mind

this is probably the towniest post in porscha's ISO because she takes a confident stance on lucy in an unprompted way while still demonstrating that she's trying to think about her alignment. and the second line is just one of those lines wolves usually have a hard time faking

I'll prob only be able to do good stuff after D1. I can't function without flips and seeing how wagons work on non-me players. Wagoning me here is detrimental to town.

also this post activates my fight or flight instincts with the way that creature worded it, even tho admittedly sometimes creature just makes post like that as both alignments

I feel like you're being a little hedgy on creature
like you made a couple pretty strong sounding posts about creature, which you're admittedly selling me on, but then ending with like "yeah but idk if its ai" like are ya comin or are ya goin

this is a really bizarre thing for porscha to say to me considering that almost every single read that she has posted in this game has been hedgy or come with a qualifier

porscha kind of feels like a mixed bag to me. if it's true that she is actually polarized and incapable of making towny sounding posts as mafia then she is probably town. if my impressions of her meta are incorrect then idk

honestly im not really sure that i want to kill her today. i would appreciate thoughts

[Bereft]

Alison, Creature, Rondo, Baudi, Wilgy



That's been the pretty consistent wagons thus far this RD. Baudi thinks these are spectacularly bad...despite SR Wilgy for sure, and certainly shading Rondo...that's 2/5 he should have no issue w/ flipping, yet he acts like we've got spectacularly bad wagons.

I don't see how a town thinks like this

Really, 2/4 wagons, cuz I'm sure he doesn't want his own flip.


Half the wagons are for players he's been shading or outright SR...I don't see that as a Town mindset at all

Like ...

... is this clarification.

How ... does baudib being themselves a wagon supposed to make the wagons mathematically look better from their perspective?

Id have a more creative way to express how utterly scandalized I feel about the egregiousness of this utter nonsense but in lieu you will just get dots.

[RondoDimBuckle]

[VOTE: kate] aubergine

I'd join this wagon. I don't see Baudib going over here, and while I think they should be strongly scrutinized, I'm tempted to drop them for now.

I'mma vote Kate, then ISO Kate... because that's the correct order, right? [VOTE: Kate] aubergine

[VOTE: sean] aubergine

[Creature]

Is Luckbox at the game?

[staypositivefriend]

oh i meant to ping lucy and not luckbox

for the record im unwilling to vote baub or alison today

[staypositivefriend]

my hot take is that sig might be mafia

[Creature]

oh i meant to ping lucy and not luckbox

for the record im unwilling to vote baub or alison today

I am unwilling to vote either two and also me.

Where would you go besides me?

[Bereft]

Why are you voting Kate? Why did you do a naked vote? Imma dive your ISO now, cuz' I'm curious how often you've brought her up before this

You were literally naked voting Kate at the time. The only thing in your iso mentioning kate before this was a whiles before saying "i only found kate sus after the reaction" and you've never repped kate as a sus even when asked by (seanzie?). So how, how, do you get to baudib naked voting kate being a cause of newfound concern for baudibs alignment.

[staypositivefriend]

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

[RondoDimBuckle]

[VOTE: Baudib] aubergine

You have me as scum lean yet you join me on a vote???

[MacDougall]

I suddenly understand Mac's Alison/Jack w/w tinfoil.

[Seanzie]

Alison, Creature, Rondo, Baudi, Wilgy



That's been the pretty consistent wagons thus far this RD. Baudi thinks these are spectacularly bad...despite SR Wilgy for sure, and certainly shading Rondo...that's 2/5 he should have no issue w/ flipping, yet he acts like we've got spectacularly bad wagons.

I don't see how a town thinks like this

Really, 2/4 wagons, cuz I'm sure he doesn't want his own flip.


Half the wagons are for players he's been shading or outright SR...I don't see that as a Town mindset at all

Like ...

... is this clarification.

How ... does baudib being themselves a wagon supposed to make the wagons mathematically look better from their perspective?

Id have a more creative way to express how utterly scandalized I feel about the egregiousness of this utter nonsense but in lieu you will just get dots.

Do you think this is wolfy from Falcon, or is there another point to your post? Personally, I agree that the math is wrong, but I think that is NAI.

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: kate] aubergine

I'd join this wagon. I don't see Baudib going over here, and while I think they should be strongly scrutinized, I'm tempted to drop them for now.

I'mma vote Kate, then ISO Kate... because that's the correct order, right? [VOTE: Kate] aubergine

[VOTE: sean] aubergine

Yes?

[RondoDimBuckle]

Kate townslipped. She's been using the green text all game to represent stuff that's from an out-of-game perspective and that she wants to make sure people know is genuine and not speaking from her role PM. She included "it would be a bad move for town to vote me out" in green text because she was telling the truth about requesting a sub out and accidentally said too much in her "trust tell" font.

Roxy hasn't returned and is either totally checked out of the game or totally frozen mafia. We should get rid of her because we can't leave her around generating question marks forever.

Lynching slankers D1 is always suboptimal.


If only there was a recent game where Maf absolutely trounced Town cuz' of this very thing...@DrWilgy , remember?

Not for wolves. Wolf Alison loves to yeet town slankers like "We can't leave this slot around forever."

Well, ya I mean for Town. 'Natch it's a wolf strat

Which is why you should help me yeet Alison. Because she's using a strategy that makes sense for her as a wolf, not a townie.



While I'm burning a post, here are some reads.





Town
Lucy
SPF
Falcon
Sig

Townish
Seanzie
Baudib
Tutuu
Fingersplints.

Special place for players I don't have a read on but won't support yeeting D1
Creature

Scumlean
Wilgy

Scumread
Alison


These are unordered btw.

Ok the first time you ignored my wall I can understand. The second time I am miffed. you have left me out of this and have failed to interact with me all game you can be scum

[Seanzie]

Not super keen on the Roxy wagon. Their ISO wasn't like... fantastic, but it was fine.

[robyn]

iso'ed roxy from the last game and this game, yeah i don't think she's mafia

[sig]

To all towns:
Fundamentally the stagnation on high activity poster wagons (me/Allison) and the noted lack of interest in the jack wagon even while strong town voices (me, Mac, Alison, Lucy) are making cases on him should be triggering your wolfdar.
If Jack were pure there is enough town coverage for wolves to slip in among us (there aren’t multiple wolves very often in me, Mac/Alison/Lucy) to push for a Jack yeet if he’s town.

glgl

You and Alison aren’t strong town voices this is a kind off disingenuous post

[Seanzie]

Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

I'm literally leading a yeet on a wolf right now. How much more useful do you expect me to be?

Jack: you and I both know, so just remember when we play another game for higher stakes, bub.

Your push on me is so ill advised that you've become a bigger wagon than me even without me pushing you at all.

Everything you're complaining about me doing, you're doing. I'm not doing enough by just pushing Alison? You're not doing enough by just pushing me.

Only I'm pushing a wolf and you're pushing a townie. If you really are town and you really can't get over this, at least do something else useful so people stop thinking you're a wolf.

Bub you can’t even make a half-convincing case that you’re unaware of my alignment. I’m not the one trolling the thread with useless nonsense. I have plenty of other thoughts on other people in the game, and you don’t.

You are frustrating.

What is your take on Baudib?