BEANS MAFIA - Day 6

[Roxy]

In pain and need a pill will be back when I wake up again.

sorry everyone I did not wake up until 2am and just took another pain pill but I am up now and will try to continue on.

[Roxy]

Roxy is obv wolf for another reason but I can't be assed to explain it because I know I won't be able to and I will just be annoyed that nobody understands my point.

[Roxy]

I want to pull Delta quotes and Thunal quotes but I'd also like to ask LongCon why he ignored my responses to his posts.

I didn't ignore them, I read them. I just didn't have any follow-up, your answers were acceptable. I just looked back at them again and I don't have a follow-up for it, thank you for answering and I'm sorry you felt ignored. Abi's reveal kind of took over the mindscape a little probably.

I think this is a slight good look for Roxy btw. Her catchup looks fine, but I don't like her SVS vote or her "I'm bad, bye" post so she's in my PoE.

tbf I was on delaudid both instances, but I do not mind the sus. <3

[Roxy]

I feel very comfortable calling Abi, pyxxy, and Delta town. Epi and Jack are probably town but are my "hard game" tinfoils. SVS I almost feel comfortable townlocking and her being maf would take more tinfoil than Epi or Jack but I don't quite have the same confidence as with Abi, pyxxy, or Delta.

I have the same immediate PoE of Wilgy, Roxy, and Nanook.

you and Jack POE is the same but I have to ask you think all of the baddies are low posters? I am like middling but the others?
I have no sus of Wigly but Nook.....is another story

[Roxy]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - you have added diddly squat this game - pal. You were put in PA's pocket and then you went to sleep in there all comfy.
If you are town you are doing nothing to help push the game forward. I have no idea who you suspect or who you feel is town other than PA and that is not good enough. I need more. At least last time you were town you helped albeit very little but you did help I am not seeing ANY help this game so I want to vote you today (more than likely)

[Roxy]

@pyxxy yeah idc if I am in your poe no probs it's been a weird game for me betwixt style clashing then my unfortunate accident with my pup. I am seeing you as town irregardless. I can't help it. I agree with most of what you post and have liked your play this game.

[Roxy]

@Epignosis - hi buddy. I know you have a sus on me and tbf I have a zero read on you mostly bc I have been wrong every time. So yah no read but I do notice you are posting slightly more than normal but that's it I got nothing from them. I neither find you town nor bad. NULL.

[Roxy]

@DrWilgy I read you as town it is what it is. You are playing your own way, no gimmicks but still....feels very townie.

[Roxy]

I need food bbl I will try not to take pain meds until I finish.

[Delta]

I feel very comfortable calling Abi, pyxxy, and Delta town. Epi and Jack are probably town but are my "hard game" tinfoils. SVS I almost feel comfortable townlocking and her being maf would take more tinfoil than Epi or Jack but I don't quite have the same confidence as with Abi, pyxxy, or Delta.

I have the same immediate PoE of Wilgy, Roxy, and Nanook.

you and Jack POE is the same but I have to ask you think all of the baddies are low posters? I am like middling but the others?
I have no sus of Wigly but Nook.....is another story

Yeah I have noticed that a few of us have near identical POEs, do you think that's more town driven or wolf driven?

If you're town, do you think there's wolves encouraging a POE of lowposters here?

I am slightly worried theres like 3-4 of us w identical POEs but also I dont know where I'm wrong if my reads are so ;_; it's odd

[Delta]

If anyone's around actually just ping me because I wanna get some sort of back and forth going over just shouting to the void ;_; it's how I work best

am I too late

A little x_x though if you have any thoughts you want a second opinion on then post them & I'll get back to you tomorrow \o/

*gestures at my posts*

I'll just take (tomorrow) your digestion of what Jack just posted, I don't have anything more interesting

I'll get back to you on this in a bit \o/ I havent forgotten

[Delta]

I'm so torn about what to do coming up to EOD because I feel relatively comfortable with the reads I have but I dont want to sleepwalk into a vote because a lot of my POE are just lowposters

It's weird & I'm worried ;_; I dont want to just treat this as an easy game

[Roxy]

Spoiler: show

If anyone's around actually just ping me because I wanna get some sort of back and forth going over just shouting to the void ;_; it's how I work best

am I too late

A little x_x though if you have any thoughts you want a second opinion on then post them & I'll get back to you tomorrow \o/

*gestures at my posts*

I'll just take (tomorrow) your digestion of what Jack just posted, I don't have anything more interesting

I'll get back to you on this in a bit \o/ I havent forgotten

you keep asking for people to engage and pyx has tried but you resisted thus far - is there a reason for it?

[Roxy]

@S~V~S I think this is my last one I cannot be sure. I have had some weird feels from you earlier but now my nerves (where you are concerned) have settled. You are hard for me to read and I'm not sure I ever have gotten you right. As of yesterday's elim I feel better and satisfied with leaving you as a town read. What do you make of all the same low poster poe's? Do we really think that's it? I feel like someone is hiding in everyone's town reads but tbh I cannot seem to find them.

[Thunal33]

I feel very comfortable calling Abi, pyxxy, and Delta town. Epi and Jack are probably town but are my "hard game" tinfoils. SVS I almost feel comfortable townlocking and her being maf would take more tinfoil than Epi or Jack but I don't quite have the same confidence as with Abi, pyxxy, or Delta.

I have the same immediate PoE of Wilgy, Roxy, and Nanook.

you and Jack POE is the same but I have to ask you think all of the baddies are low posters? I am like middling but the others?
I have no sus of Wigly but Nook.....is another story

I think at least the maf have no control of the thread. Games where the maf can control the thread feel different from this. Delta and I are basically allowed to control the thread without a lot of challenge to that, and leetic was when they were alive. I'd expect more pushback if there were high posting mafia.

[Thunal33]

I want the solve to be "It's Wilgy because his play yesterday wrt my slot and Leetic's was bad and it's Roxy because she is trying to open up the POE by pushing Delta and myself (and Abby? maybe not) and it's not Nanook because he's relatively comfortable with the gamestate compared to the other two players in the POE and it's not anybody else because you are very smart, Jack, and you correctly townread everyone else for smart boy reasons."

Can you talk to me about these reasons? Even if it's just a brief thing for everyone, I'm at a somewhat similar point to what you are myself so I just want a sanity check if anything & a second voice to see where our thoughts differ \o/

Almost forgot to respond to this.

Abby - Town for the red peek thing that ultimately resulted in Long Con's death. Just generally you don't see wolves do crazy fancy pants plays to get their teammate killed. I disagree with Abby's worldview today but she's town.

Thunal - Early LC detractor. Her solving around my slot feels very honest. (I'm biased, here.) Went out of her way to get me to see SVS as town, ensuring LC was yeeted. Generally agree with most everything she's said, some before she says them and some by being convinced. Surely town.

SVS - This post is particularly townie https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 7#p1078007 but she's also just got some town mindset interactions with Leetic and Abby. She's tunneled on me but her push on me doesn't feel agenday. If Roxy is a wolf (likely through POE alone), Roxy and LC both voting SVS is a super good look.

Pyxxy - LC voting his teammate D1 in the way he did would be kinda weird. The case was actually bad, though. It made sense in a vacuum but after thinking about it for two seconds, it was just bad. Wolves don't tend to make up bad arguments against teammates. They just use real ones. In general, Pyxxy's solving around Abby has felt honest if misguided. I don't detect anything else that could even be construed as a wolf attempting to open the POE. Like he's flat defending me. Town.

Delta - You've seemed honest throughout the game. Your tone and mindset just look incredibly townie. You bounce votes and are sometimes like "wait no that's not where I should be voting actually" and it feels like an actual change in opinion, not some wolfy gear shifting. Being shaded by Roxy is a potential good look.

Epi - This is hard to explain. Sometimes both alignments Epi feels like he's treading water. This tends to be because of real life stuff so sometimes, I get suspicious of town Epi. I can't always read him. However, there's a thing he only does as town and that's when he looks like he's hunting for wolves. It's not about activity level or antagonism but a hunting attitude. You can see it in his posts about Long Con this morning like here https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 8#p1078548. There's a bit of it D1 as well like here https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 5#p1077815 where it feels like his investment is from a town mindset. And this post here https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 2#p1078262 reads as an honest town though. It's not impossible for Epi to be a wolf but I'd be super surprised if he was.

Jack - Shoes of a townie. YEAH!

So that's where I get to my pretty confident 3 player POE of Wilgy, Roxy and Nanook.

From there, Wilgy's play yesterday was pretty gross. His continuing to push me reads as a wolf who doesn't know what to do so is just hammering on the same points. Roxy looks like she's attempting to open the POE with dishonest pushes. Nanook is just like weeee whatever. So of my 3 player POE, I think 2 of them are doing scummy things and one is like existing.

That particularly towny post is also spectacularly wrong and kinda embarrassing. And yeah, bad SVS tries not to say pedantic lecturey things like that when she knows its wrong.

Roxy was in the hospital and she voted me becasue she knew I could deal with that. I 100000% think she would not do that if she were bad (I originally wrote "do that bad", I have to get that wording out of my head), use our irl friendship as a chip or ploy in a game. Nuh uh.

For reasons as stated in my last post, I also think Wilgy is not bad. I can't ever read nanook, he always comes across as kind and vaguely disinterested regardless of alignment, so I'll sheep Abigail on this.

And yeah, I guess i am tunnelling you. But lots of tunnels have a baddie at the end, and tunnelling by itself is not automatically wrong.

Also re pyxxys day one vote, if I don't want to end up on the townie, I vote a teammate when it's feasible to do so. Makes for excellent distancing on Day 3 when someone says, "LC voting his teammate D1 in the way he did would be kinda weird". Pyxxy isn't on my active radar, but that's a naive reason to exclude someone from suspish imo, kinda wifomy.

@Roxy can you confirm that your SVS vote was using your irl friendship? What did you mean by saying she'd know what you meant?

[Roxy]

I feel very comfortable calling Abi, pyxxy, and Delta town. Epi and Jack are probably town but are my "hard game" tinfoils. SVS I almost feel comfortable townlocking and her being maf would take more tinfoil than Epi or Jack but I don't quite have the same confidence as with Abi, pyxxy, or Delta.

I have the same immediate PoE of Wilgy, Roxy, and Nanook.

you and Jack POE is the same but I have to ask you think all of the baddies are low posters? I am like middling but the others?
I have no sus of Wigly but Nook.....is another story

Yeah I have noticed that a few of us have near identical POEs, do you think that's more town driven or wolf driven?

If you're town, do you think there's wolves encouraging a POE of lowposters here?

I am slightly worried theres like 3-4 of us w identical POEs but also I dont know where I'm wrong if my reads are so ;_; it's odd

Not *if* I am town - I am town. And yes I do think that it is why I posted it. There is someone hiding in everyone's town reads. I will guarantee it.

[S~V~S]

“Using”?

Yikes.

[Delta]

Spoiler: show

If anyone's around actually just ping me because I wanna get some sort of back and forth going over just shouting to the void ;_; it's how I work best

am I too late

A little x_x though if you have any thoughts you want a second opinion on then post them & I'll get back to you tomorrow \o/

*gestures at my posts*

I'll just take (tomorrow) your digestion of what Jack just posted, I don't have anything more interesting

I'll get back to you on this in a bit \o/ I havent forgotten

you keep asking for people to engage and pyx has tried but you resisted thus far - is there a reason for it?

How have I resisted engaging w/ pyxxy? ;_; I said I'd get back to what they asked of me later & I will, it was just a case of timing yesterday

[S~V~S]

“Using”?

Yikes.

@Thunal33 that is really loaded language. Maybe leaning?

[Roxy]

Spoiler: show

I want the solve to be "It's Wilgy because his play yesterday wrt my slot and Leetic's was bad and it's Roxy because she is trying to open up the POE by pushing Delta and myself (and Abby? maybe not) and it's not Nanook because he's relatively comfortable with the gamestate compared to the other two players in the POE and it's not anybody else because you are very smart, Jack, and you correctly townread everyone else for smart boy reasons."

Can you talk to me about these reasons? Even if it's just a brief thing for everyone, I'm at a somewhat similar point to what you are myself so I just want a sanity check if anything & a second voice to see where our thoughts differ \o/

Almost forgot to respond to this.

Abby - Town for the red peek thing that ultimately resulted in Long Con's death. Just generally you don't see wolves do crazy fancy pants plays to get their teammate killed. I disagree with Abby's worldview today but she's town.

Thunal - Early LC detractor. Her solving around my slot feels very honest. (I'm biased, here.) Went out of her way to get me to see SVS as town, ensuring LC was yeeted. Generally agree with most everything she's said, some before she says them and some by being convinced. Surely town.

SVS - This post is particularly townie https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 7#p1078007 but she's also just got some town mindset interactions with Leetic and Abby. She's tunneled on me but her push on me doesn't feel agenday. If Roxy is a wolf (likely through POE alone), Roxy and LC both voting SVS is a super good look.

Pyxxy - LC voting his teammate D1 in the way he did would be kinda weird. The case was actually bad, though. It made sense in a vacuum but after thinking about it for two seconds, it was just bad. Wolves don't tend to make up bad arguments against teammates. They just use real ones. In general, Pyxxy's solving around Abby has felt honest if misguided. I don't detect anything else that could even be construed as a wolf attempting to open the POE. Like he's flat defending me. Town.

Delta - You've seemed honest throughout the game. Your tone and mindset just look incredibly townie. You bounce votes and are sometimes like "wait no that's not where I should be voting actually" and it feels like an actual change in opinion, not some wolfy gear shifting. Being shaded by Roxy is a potential good look.

Epi - This is hard to explain. Sometimes both alignments Epi feels like he's treading water. This tends to be because of real life stuff so sometimes, I get suspicious of town Epi. I can't always read him. However, there's a thing he only does as town and that's when he looks like he's hunting for wolves. It's not about activity level or antagonism but a hunting attitude. You can see it in his posts about Long Con this morning like here https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 8#p1078548. There's a bit of it D1 as well like here https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 5#p1077815 where it feels like his investment is from a town mindset. And this post here https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 2#p1078262 reads as an honest town though. It's not impossible for Epi to be a wolf but I'd be super surprised if he was.

Jack - Shoes of a townie. YEAH!

So that's where I get to my pretty confident 3 player POE of Wilgy, Roxy and Nanook.

From there, Wilgy's play yesterday was pretty gross. His continuing to push me reads as a wolf who doesn't know what to do so is just hammering on the same points. Roxy looks like she's attempting to open the POE with dishonest pushes. Nanook is just like weeee whatever. So of my 3 player POE, I think 2 of them are doing scummy things and one is like existing.

That particularly towny post is also spectacularly wrong and kinda embarrassing. And yeah, bad SVS tries not to say pedantic lecturey things like that when she knows its wrong.

Roxy was in the hospital and she voted me becasue she knew I could deal with that. I 100000% think she would not do that if she were bad (I originally wrote "do that bad", I have to get that wording out of my head), use our irl friendship as a chip or ploy in a game. Nuh uh.

For reasons as stated in my last post, I also think Wilgy is not bad. I can't ever read nanook, he always comes across as kind and vaguely disinterested regardless of alignment, so I'll sheep Abigail on this.

And yeah, I guess i am tunnelling you. But lots of tunnels have a baddie at the end, and tunnelling by itself is not automatically wrong.

Also re pyxxys day one vote, if I don't want to end up on the townie, I vote a teammate when it's feasible to do so. Makes for excellent distancing on Day 3 when someone says, "LC voting his teammate D1 in the way he did would be kinda weird". Pyxxy isn't on my active radar, but that's a naive reason to exclude someone from suspish imo, kinda wifomy.

@Roxy can you confirm that your SVS vote was using your irl friendship? What did you mean by saying she'd know what you meant?

Why quote that ginormous post just to ask this simple question? No wonder this thread gets so wonky to read everyone quoting giant posts to just post a one liner.

And yes SVS is a friend irl. And yes I used it for my last vote bc as a friend I knew they would not take it srsly and I tried to make it clear that was NOTHING to my vote other than just voting to get a vote in while in the hospital. I assumed she would read the thread and see splints post then my vote and totes understand why I did what I did. Which she did ---- eventually.

[Thunal33]

Cook the goose!

Boil the duck!

Pepper the chicken!

Nice wagon you're joining. What will you do when I flip town?

Probably cry a little.

Maybe eat dinner. EoD is around that time.

Then look at your reads and see if they take me somewhere.

Oh also figure out who started the wagon on you.

Jack is the first person to defend me from a fake red check. I don't know if I should be happy or concerned

Oh.

Okie dokie. Let's yeet Jack

[VOTE: Jackoftarts] aubergine

Oh.

Okie dokie. Let's yeet Jack

[VOTE: Jackoftarts] aubergine

I'll join you, better wagon than the current biggest one [VOTE: Jack] aubergine

Hell yeah, let's goooooo

If Jack is town, which I'm leaning that he is, this jump on looks terrible. Wilgy also took some time to say what would happen if leetic flipped town in response to their question isntead of something like "well you were red checked". He knew about the check, but if he didn't catch up a lot why would he know there was a real chance leetic would flip town?

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Why would my response to "what if I'm town" be "well your not"? That undermines the entire point of Lwetic asking me that.

Gross reason to vote me.

I don't like him jumping to saying this was a gross reason to vote me. When I showed my town entitlement in the thread he backed off pretty quick and I easily see him thinking I was unpushable.

About that post about me actually randing wolf, I feel like his thought would be stronger than "what if she randed wolf again" and that wasn't even his first thought.

I hope I don't switch between tunneling and cold feet on Wilgy all day tomorrow.

It's posts like this that kinda make me think he is town. He'll be licking people or only posting the words yes/no, and someone votes him for what he considers an invalid reason (and when you're town, is there ever a valid reason?) and he comes in and at them in this way.

Wilgy and LC had almost no interaction. LC asked him if he was gonna play and Wilgy kinda Wilgied it off. Normally this would be kinda red flaggish for me, but Wilgy actively interacts with teammates in thread, he's the best at that kind of distancing. I don't see LC/Wilgy as viable, even without the tell.

I think LC did use a disconnecting strategy with his partners though. While he spewed a couple people town (pyxxy and Abi) he didn't spew anyone wolf or have any interactions that stuck out to me as distancing. I feel like his teammate interaction was minimal.

Yes, I am afraid I'm Jack's honorary wolf partner today. I just feel like the PoE is tight and Jack's pyxxy vote, EoD behavior, and how he approached today are enough to make me not want to vote him. I have seen too wolfy to be a wolf people who are actually wolves - but generally not from a flipped mafia's end of not wanting to vote them.

[Roxy]

“Using”?

Yikes.

and yes I agree yikes but I know that you know how it was meant <3

[Thunal33]

“Using”?

Yikes.

@Thunal33 that is really loaded language. Maybe leaning?

Sorry, it was what I thought of because it was in your post. I didn't mean that she was manipulating you or anything like that.

[Roxy]

I feel very comfortable calling Abi, pyxxy, and Delta town. Epi and Jack are probably town but are my "hard game" tinfoils. SVS I almost feel comfortable townlocking and her being maf would take more tinfoil than Epi or Jack but I don't quite have the same confidence as with Abi, pyxxy, or Delta.

I have the same immediate PoE of Wilgy, Roxy, and Nanook.

you and Jack POE is the same but I have to ask you think all of the baddies are low posters? I am like middling but the others?
I have no sus of Wigly but Nook.....is another story

I think at least the maf have no control of the thread. Games where the maf can control the thread feel different from this. Delta and I are basically allowed to control the thread without a lot of challenge to that, and leetic was when they were alive. I'd expect more pushback if there were high posting mafia.

explain this better bc as it stands it is hitting me wrong. You do not think like someone is widely town read so they can just help "lead" the town? Like a pocket couldn't have happened or that the higher posting wolf is actually a great player?

[Thunal33]

I feel very comfortable calling Abi, pyxxy, and Delta town. Epi and Jack are probably town but are my "hard game" tinfoils. SVS I almost feel comfortable townlocking and her being maf would take more tinfoil than Epi or Jack but I don't quite have the same confidence as with Abi, pyxxy, or Delta.

I have the same immediate PoE of Wilgy, Roxy, and Nanook.

you and Jack POE is the same but I have to ask you think all of the baddies are low posters? I am like middling but the others?
I have no sus of Wigly but Nook.....is another story

I think at least the maf have no control of the thread. Games where the maf can control the thread feel different from this. Delta and I are basically allowed to control the thread without a lot of challenge to that, and leetic was when they were alive. I'd expect more pushback if there were high posting mafia.

explain this better bc as it stands it is hitting me wrong. You do not think like someone is widely town read so they can just help "lead" the town? Like a pocket couldn't have happened or that the higher posting wolf is actually a great player?

All these things *could* have happened, sure. I don't think a pocket is unlikely but one that helps mafia control the thread effectively is unlikely at this stage imo. A great deepwolf is always possible but I don't think d3 after a mafia flip is the time to entertain that tinfoil.

Basically, I think it's an easy game unless it's proven that it's not.

[Thunal33]

On second thought it might be a less easy game than I thought since Roxy's thoughts vibe fairly towny so I probably have to look outside the immediate PoE for one of the wolves. Sure, it makes sense for wolf Roxy to expand the PoE, but it also makes sense for town Roxy to expand the PoE since the current one leaves no room for error if she's town. She has to believe it's exactly Wilgy/Nanook.

[pyxxy]

I need food bbl I will try not to take pain meds until I finish.

your priorities are yours to decide but uh don't skimp on pain meds my friend o7

[pyxxy]

On second thought it might be a less easy game than I thought since Roxy's thoughts vibe fairly towny so I probably have to look outside the immediate PoE for one of the wolves. Sure, it makes sense for wolf Roxy to expand the PoE, but it also makes sense for town Roxy to expand the PoE since the current one leaves no room for error if she's town. She has to believe it's exactly Wilgy/Nanook.

?

I feel very comfortable calling Abi, pyxxy, and Delta town. Epi and Jack are probably town but are my "hard game" tinfoils. SVS I almost feel comfortable townlocking and her being maf would take more tinfoil than Epi or Jack but I don't quite have the same confidence as with Abi, pyxxy, or Delta.

I have the same immediate PoE of Wilgy, Roxy, and Nanook.

you and Jack POE is the same but I have to ask you think all of the baddies are low posters? I am like middling but the others?
I have no sus of Wigly but Nook.....is another story

@Epignosis - hi buddy. I know you have a sus on me and tbf I have a zero read on you mostly bc I have been wrong every time. So yah no read but I do notice you are posting slightly more than normal but that's it I got nothing from them. I neither find you town nor bad. NULL.

@DrWilgy I read you as town it is what it is. You are playing your own way, no gimmicks but still....feels very townie.

I could see roxy opening up Epi here. You are spot on about the Wilgy resistance, but also with so many shared poes having Wilgy, it's not roxy holding out is a real trendsetter.

re: room for error, you mean how many chops we have left?

[Roxy]

On second thought it might be a less easy game than I thought since Roxy's thoughts vibe fairly towny so I probably have to look outside the immediate PoE for one of the wolves. Sure, it makes sense for wolf Roxy to expand the PoE, but it also makes sense for town Roxy to expand the PoE since the current one leaves no room for error if she's town. She has to believe it's exactly Wilgy/Nanook.

glad you added this second thought bc the first one is you just digging your heels in and that is not townie in my eyes.

And I do not believe Wigly is a wolf. So it would have to be a double Nook and that is impossible.

[Roxy]

I need food bbl I will try not to take pain meds until I finish.

your priorities are yours to decide but uh don't skimp on pain meds my friend o7

I know you are right I just want to be here and try to play the game JPIC has created bc I adore this players list
Once I take my meds there is no telling when I'll wake up.

[pyxxy]

I feel very comfortable calling Abi, pyxxy, and Delta town. Epi and Jack are probably town but are my "hard game" tinfoils. SVS I almost feel comfortable townlocking and her being maf would take more tinfoil than Epi or Jack but I don't quite have the same confidence as with Abi, pyxxy, or Delta.

I have the same immediate PoE of Wilgy, Roxy, and Nanook.

you and Jack POE is the same but I have to ask you think all of the baddies are low posters? I am like middling but the others?
I have no sus of Wigly but Nook.....is another story

Yeah I have noticed that a few of us have near identical POEs, do you think that's more town driven or wolf driven?

If you're town, do you think there's wolves encouraging a POE of lowposters here?

I am slightly worried theres like 3-4 of us w identical POEs but also I dont know where I'm wrong if my reads are so ;_; it's odd

Strictly going by the numbers, a broad consensus poe is town-driven because there are only so many scum

The only low poster that's trying to post their way out of low posting is Roxy. Wilgy tried to joke off his low posting as towny because any scum team would just bus him instead of LC, but I don't really buy that from rereading EOD + if the low poster poe is correct, then the town-driven poe is also correct, and Wilgy's argument is like one of the few that scum Wilgy can make.

Nook is just being nook. I can't read him. He's not doing anything that I would consider attempting to leave the low poster poe. So long as he's nook, scum will leave him alive. A looming problem if we find ourselves in FX.

Really what Thunal and you are asking is, if the thread is town-driven, as it appears to be, is that a good thing or a bad thing? And I think the answer to that is, well, are your poes true poes, as the definition goes? If you think your pool contains the scum, then town consensus is a good thing here and we're gonna win. If you're actually concerned about how you formed your poe, then talk to me about that.

[Roxy]

On second thought it might be a less easy game than I thought since Roxy's thoughts vibe fairly towny so I probably have to look outside the immediate PoE for one of the wolves. Sure, it makes sense for wolf Roxy to expand the PoE, but it also makes sense for town Roxy to expand the PoE since the current one leaves no room for error if she's town. She has to believe it's exactly Wilgy/Nanook.

?

I feel very comfortable calling Abi, pyxxy, and Delta town. Epi and Jack are probably town but are my "hard game" tinfoils. SVS I almost feel comfortable townlocking and her being maf would take more tinfoil than Epi or Jack but I don't quite have the same confidence as with Abi, pyxxy, or Delta.

I have the same immediate PoE of Wilgy, Roxy, and Nanook.

you and Jack POE is the same but I have to ask you think all of the baddies are low posters? I am like middling but the others?
I have no sus of Wigly but Nook.....is another story

@Epignosis - hi buddy. I know you have a sus on me and tbf I have a zero read on you mostly bc I have been wrong every time. So yah no read but I do notice you are posting slightly more than normal but that's it I got nothing from them. I neither find you town nor bad. NULL.

@DrWilgy I read you as town it is what it is. You are playing your own way, no gimmicks but still....feels very townie.

I could see roxy opening up Epi here. You are spot on about the Wilgy resistance, but also with so many shared poes having Wilgy, it's not roxy holding out is a real trendsetter.

re: room for error, you mean how many chops we have left?

I think Thunal meant that so many have Me, Wigly and Nook so no room for error lest ye all be wrong - which they are in my case.

[pyxxy]

I need food bbl I will try not to take pain meds until I finish.

your priorities are yours to decide but uh don't skimp on pain meds my friend o7

I know you are right I just want to be here and try to play the game JPIC has created bc I adore this players list
Once I take my meds there is no telling when I'll wake up.

ah okay I didn't realize they were sleepies I thought they were just loopies

(these are terms I just made up)

[Thunal33]

re: room for error, you mean how many chops we have left?

I meant town Roxy would have to believe in an exact solve of Wilgy/Nanook to believe the PoE is correct.

[Roxy]

I'm eating more bc I have to before I take my meds. I have some pain I'm gonna try to ride the storm out as long as I can, but I'll likely vote earlier than normal bc I'll probs have to end up taking my meds.

[Thunal33]

Delta, pyxxy, Abi, and SVS are all people who I'm basically townlocking at this point. Jack/Epi are the first places I'd look if the Wilgy/Roxy/Nanook PoE was wrong. Probably Epi before Jack.

[Delta]

Really what Thunal and you are asking is, if the thread is town-driven, as it appears to be, is that a good thing or a bad thing? And I think the answer to that is, well, are your poes true poes, as the definition goes? If you think your pool contains the scum, then town consensus is a good thing here and we're gonna win. If you're actually concerned about how you formed your poe, then talk to me about that.

I worry because I feel like my thoughts are less 'I genuinely feel this person can be mafia' and more 'I have no names left other than these guys' which is why I'm seeking second opinions & seeing how people reached the same conclusions I did, to see if there's anything I missed that could strengthen my own reads or maybe shed light on where I'm going wrong

I'm working through Jack's post right now so that'll have some of my own thoughts, though I feel he echoed a lot of the reasons I'm townreading people also which feels good for me. I'll ping you when I post it since that's what you wanted me to work through last night \o/

[pyxxy]

re: room for error, you mean how many chops we have left?

I meant town Roxy would have to believe in an exact solve of Wilgy/Nanook to believe the PoE is correct.

okay gotcha

she doesn't, which was my point

[Thunal33]

Really what Thunal and you are asking is, if the thread is town-driven, as it appears to be, is that a good thing or a bad thing? And I think the answer to that is, well, are your poes true poes, as the definition goes? If you think your pool contains the scum, then town consensus is a good thing here and we're gonna win. If you're actually concerned about how you formed your poe, then talk to me about that.

I worry because I feel like my thoughts are less 'I genuinely feel this person can be mafia' and more 'I have no names left other than these guys' which is why I'm seeking second opinions & seeing how people reached the same conclusions I did, to see if there's anything I missed that could strengthen my own reads or maybe shed light on where I'm going wrong

I'm working through Jack's post right now so that'll have some of my own thoughts, though I feel he echoed a lot of the reasons I'm townreading people also which feels good for me. I'll ping you when I post it since that's what you wanted me to work through last night \o/

Yeah, it's mostly that the PoE is less towny rather than that they're wolfy. Wilgy is the only one I have reasons to actually think he's a wolf, and even there I'm not totally confident like I was when I was riding the high of LC's flip.

[Delta]

I want the solve to be "It's Wilgy because his play yesterday wrt my slot and Leetic's was bad and it's Roxy because she is trying to open up the POE by pushing Delta and myself (and Abby? maybe not) and it's not Nanook because he's relatively comfortable with the gamestate compared to the other two players in the POE and it's not anybody else because you are very smart, Jack, and you correctly townread everyone else for smart boy reasons."

Can you talk to me about these reasons? Even if it's just a brief thing for everyone, I'm at a somewhat similar point to what you are myself so I just want a sanity check if anything & a second voice to see where our thoughts differ \o/

Almost forgot to respond to this.

Abby - Town for the red peek thing that ultimately resulted in Long Con's death. Just generally you don't see wolves do crazy fancy pants plays to get their teammate killed. I disagree with Abby's worldview today but she's town.
I agree with the latter part of this, but Abi's play mainly cleared Leetic more than it did out LC. LC's reaction to it felt very artificial to the claim, which did get them killed, but it wasn't a play to specifically get LC killed there. So not really sure what you mean by the first part, could you explain that a little?

Thunal - Early LC detractor. Her solving around my slot feels very honest. (I'm biased, here.) Went out of her way to get me to see SVS as town, ensuring LC was yeeted. Generally agree with most everything she's said, some before she says them and some by being convinced. Surely town.
Agreed on this, I feel like Thunal's echoed a lot of my thoughts which feels good.

SVS - This post is particularly townie https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 7#p1078007 but she's also just got some town mindset interactions with Leetic and Abby. She's tunneled on me but her push on me doesn't feel agenday. If Roxy is a wolf (likely through POE alone), Roxy and LC both voting SVS is a super good look.
Agreed on this

Pyxxy - LC voting his teammate D1 in the way he did would be kinda weird. The case was actually bad, though. It made sense in a vacuum but after thinking about it for two seconds, it was just bad. Wolves don't tend to make up bad arguments against teammates. They just use real ones. In general, Pyxxy's solving around Abby has felt honest if misguided. I don't detect anything else that could even be construed as a wolf attempting to open the POE. Like he's flat defending me. Town.
Pyxxy's EOD stuff with Abi was what made me do a 180 in how I read him so 100% w/ this & yeah the LC stuff is a good look.

Delta - You've seemed honest throughout the game. Your tone and mindset just look incredibly townie. You bounce votes and are sometimes like "wait no that's not where I should be voting actually" and it feels like an actual change in opinion, not some wolfy gear shifting. Being shaded by Roxy is a potential good look.
me \o/

Epi - This is hard to explain. Sometimes both alignments Epi feels like he's treading water. This tends to be because of real life stuff so sometimes, I get suspicious of town Epi. I can't always read him. However, there's a thing he only does as town and that's when he looks like he's hunting for wolves. It's not about activity level or antagonism but a hunting attitude. You can see it in his posts about Long Con this morning like here https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 8#p1078548. There's a bit of it D1 as well like here https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 5#p1077815 where it feels like his investment is from a town mindset. And this post here https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 2#p1078262 reads as an honest town though. It's not impossible for Epi to be a wolf but I'd be super surprised if he was.
Agreed & from the limited experience I have with Epi, he feels different to when we were wolves together a while back which also feels good.

Jack - Shoes of a townie. YEAH!
sound logic tbh :^)

So that's where I get to my pretty confident 3 player POE of Wilgy, Roxy and Nanook.

From there, Wilgy's play yesterday was pretty gross. His continuing to push me reads as a wolf who doesn't know what to do so is just hammering on the same points. Roxy looks like she's attempting to open the POE with dishonest pushes. Nanook is just like weeee whatever. So of my 3 player POE, I think 2 of them are doing scummy things and one is like existing.

This is just a lot of 'yes I agree' but that's reassuring at least to me because it feels like my thought process has been put down into words in a sense? I was mainly looking for a sanity check on how I was reading people & how I got to those conclusions so to see a lot of those reflected is pretty good \o/

[Delta]

Really what Thunal and you are asking is, if the thread is town-driven, as it appears to be, is that a good thing or a bad thing? And I think the answer to that is, well, are your poes true poes, as the definition goes? If you think your pool contains the scum, then town consensus is a good thing here and we're gonna win. If you're actually concerned about how you formed your poe, then talk to me about that.

I worry because I feel like my thoughts are less 'I genuinely feel this person can be mafia' and more 'I have no names left other than these guys' which is why I'm seeking second opinions & seeing how people reached the same conclusions I did, to see if there's anything I missed that could strengthen my own reads or maybe shed light on where I'm going wrong

I'm working through Jack's post right now so that'll have some of my own thoughts, though I feel he echoed a lot of the reasons I'm townreading people also which feels good for me. I'll ping you when I post it since that's what you wanted me to work through last night \o/

Yeah, it's mostly that the PoE is less towny rather than that they're wolfy. Wilgy is the only one I have reasons to actually think he's a wolf, and even there I'm not totally confident like I was when I was riding the high of LC's flip.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly ;_;

I want to be thorough and make sure I'm not overlooking anything but I feel like I have stronger reasons to town everyone else

[Delta]

[VOTE: NANOOK] aubergine

for now \o/ though out of the 3 names given I feel like I'm struggling to see points in favor of Nanook, if anyone's in disagreement then lets talk but this is where I feel most comfortable voting right now

[pyxxy]

I think I'm down with a Wilgy nook wagon-off

[VOTE: Nanook] aubergine

[Delta]

I think I'm down with a Wilgy nook wagon-off

[VOTE: Nanook] aubergine

hell yeah \o/

[Jackofhearts2005]

Roxy was in the hospital and she voted me becasue she knew I could deal with that. I 100000% think she would not do that if she were bad use our irl friendship as a chip or ploy in a game. Nuh uh.

Feels icky.

I would never do something I wouldn't do as a wolf (say, swear on my grandmother's grave that I was town) as a townie because this kinda thing feels icky.

I'm not saying you're for sure wrong or that either of you is doing something unethical. Just feels bad to go down this road.

Also like...I just don't see how her alignment enters into it. Like you can be friends with someone as a wolf. You can handle a vote from w!Roxy just as well as you can handle a vote from t!Roxy.

[Jackofhearts2005]

that's supposed to be @S~V~S , not Thunal. I quoted Thunal quoting it and then was like nah this is really aimed more at this specific part of the post that SVS wrote and I deleted the SVS quote tag at the start instead of the Thunal quote tag.

[Jackofhearts2005]

On second thought it might be a less easy game than I thought since Roxy's thoughts vibe fairly towny so I probably have to look outside the immediate PoE for one of the wolves. Sure, it makes sense for wolf Roxy to expand the PoE, but it also makes sense for town Roxy to expand the PoE since the current one leaves no room for error if she's town. She has to believe it's exactly Wilgy/Nanook.

glad you added this second thought bc the first one is you just digging your heels in and that is not townie in my eyes.

And I do not believe Wigly is a wolf. So it would have to be a double Nook and that is impossible.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

[Jackofhearts2005]

The issue I have with Roxy trying to open up the POE is not just that she's trying to open up the POE in and of itself. I understand that town Roxy only has to disagree with one of Wilgy or Nanook being scum to think the POE is wrong.

It's also the way she's going about it.

And I admit this is totally unfair pushing someone in the hospital on medication but here we go.

viewtopic.php?p=1078615#p1078615

This feels limp. Telling me that I know I'm scum is a null statement. Roxy's mirroring someone else's words on Delta flip flopping. It doesn't feel like real hunting to me. It feels like desperate clawing.

viewtopic.php?p=1078605#p1078605

This also feels limp. "I should have voted you" "You haven't proven to me you are town" etc.

It doesn't feel like t!Roxying thinking she's got a wolf in her sights. It feels like desperately trying to open the POE to include townies because wolves are in a box.

[Jackofhearts2005]

My impression is that those who do believe in the Roxy/Wilgy/Nanook POE tend to think Nanook is the townie in that group. Possibly Roxy. People who don't believe in the POE tend to think Nanook is the only wolf in it.

I've got this vision in my mind of us compromising, yeeting Nanook, he flips town and then nobody changes their opinion regarding Roxy and Wilgy. wowee