Monopoly Mafia (GAME OVER- TOWN WIN)

[Long Con]

Lemon's posts have felt different than in the last couple of games we have played. There is no whimsy that I am used to from them. I am feeling bad tone-age instead.

Yo, Roxy... that's an abstract way to judge a player. Whimsy levels as alignment-indicative? My imagination also forms the impression of a sleazy Matthew McConaughey. like "mucho bad tone-age, am I right? All right all right all right, ha!" Limitations of a text-based medium, perhaps, but that's that struck me.

[Sloonei]

Long Con feels town

I wish I could make a judgment on the other LC

[Scotty]

Day 2.5 Updates:

Players on the move!

The auction for Red2 is over. @Long Con has staked their claim. It is now named Crimson Condos. Even though the paneling is green.

@Epignosis picks up a Community Chest card. It reads:

Spoiler: show

Hitchhike

Advance directly to a red space of your choice. If it is unowned, you may purchase it. If it is owned, pay the rent. If you pass Go, collect $75.

@Long Con picks up a chance card. It reads:

Spoiler: show

Everything’s an ‘Official Act’

Get out of Jail free > Use this when you get sent to jail to put your game piece on the ‘Just Visiting’ section. Then discard this card.

@S~V~S egged a police station. She is in jail now.

@Sloonei got free parking at the motorcade and is immune from elimination today.

@Lime Coke is visiting the kennels at Doggerland I. There are currently no dogs housed there, ironically.

@DarlingMonroe is visiting the RR3- looks like trains are in the yard! Choo-choo! Hahaha.

@falcon45ca is the proud new owner of LV-426, previously named Yellow2! Heck yea!

@Roxy is the proud new owner of DigaPony Lane, previously named Red1! Heck yea!

@DrWilgy is the proud new owner of Please god help, my son’s diaper smells so bad ln, previously Yellow3. Ah, the sweet smell of success!

@lemonfairy is the proud new owner of Derail Ye Rails, previously named RR3! Didn’t realize trains were still a thing, but fantastic!

Day 2 will end in 24 hours.

[Long Con]

@S~V~S wanna trade a property for this juicy Get Out of Jail Free card?

[Long Con]

Epignosis, Lime Coke, and DM all have to pay rent if I'm not mistaken.

[Epignosis]

Epignosis, Lime Coke, and DM all have to pay rent if I'm not mistaken.

I ain't owe shit.

[Epignosis]

Won't be voting Roxy or lemon today. Starting there.

[Lime Coke]

Epignosis, Lime Coke, and DM all have to pay rent if I'm not mistaken.

My monopoly luck continues to be shit.

[Lime Coke]

SVS feels like obvious town.

[Epignosis]

I have nothing on DrWilgy and even less on DarlingMonroe.

[Epignosis]

Placeholder on [VOTE: DarlingMonroe] aubergine.

[Sloonei]

SVS feels like obvious town.

Elaborate

[Epignosis]

Nah, let's [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine.

[Long Con]

Nah, let's [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine.

Yes, let's! [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

[Long Con]

Would I have gaily followed if the vote were still for DM? I don't think so. Roxy is on there right now, and I don't currently trust Roxy or S~V~S a great deal. Both have given me vibey vibes here or there.

[Sloonei]

Roxy is town. Her energy is vastly different than the previous two games where she was not town.

[Long Con]

Ok then!

I once worked with a young woman who talked about energies. Like "this place has a really orange energy going on today, do you feel that?" Talkin' about peoples' auras and stuff. Completely batshit crazy from my perspective, but we got along fine.

I dig the mafia energy thing though. You sound sure enough.

[S~V~S]

@S~V~S wanna trade a property for this juicy Get Out of Jail Free card?

No, I'm good. Keep it for yourself.

[S~V~S]

Also I apparently have joined @Long Con in jail having rolled an 11.

K, gonna read more although it looks like a quiet day.

I didn't quite grasp before that you had rolled double-2's, gotten hit by the insanoTax, and THEN rolled again to move on!

Does it work that way with paying rent as well?

I'm not sure what you're asking? I can't collect rent in here, but that's in the rules. Scotty said since I got doubles in my first roll, I had to roll again in the second half of the day, and if I got doubles again, I'd go to jail.

First roll I got a 4, so I went to Tax/Crazy Face. then I got a 15 second half, so no jail, I landed on a property, which I bought. Until AM day 2, when I got an 11 with my regular roll and landed on ... "Go Directly to Jail".

[S~V~S]

I thought Sloonei's take on S~V~S had just the amount of nuance and mafia instinct that I like. I might support him for that vote if it comes down to it, down the line. I know that S~V~S gave a reasonable rebuttal/explanation, but it didn't move me. That said, I need to read through the day again. Some was while I was on my phone at work, and involved some skimming, and some "this is between them and I'll let them work it out for now".

See, the problem with it was that it only had that amount of nuance becasue I was pretty much the only person to put a lot of reasoning into my vote. And he disagrees with my reasoning, so there was alot for him to pick apart.

Anyone (including you) who has played with me any amount of time knows I take my vote pretty seriously. I don't make day 1 votes out the gate, I don't RVS, and I try super hard not to vote on vibes with no explanation. It's WIFOM for me to say this for sure, but it is true. I like to give the person I'm voting for something to work with. I personally have problems that make it difficult for me to tell the difference between a joke vote and a not joke vote unless its super obvious (like Porscha voting for me becasue she had a dream I was a giraffe) and I like to give others the courtesy of understanding why I'm voting for them even if they disagree.

I don't recall everyones reasoning for final votes, I'm in bad early on work nights, but I'm fairly sure I gave the most detailed reasoning, and explained it more than once. I'm still Ok with my vote from Day One, whether or not Sloonei likes it.

Like Sloonei didn't mention Porscha till he voted for her, and his vote reasoning was thus:

I voted for Porscha because I felt like her posts were lacking in direction and purpose. In case anyone was wondering.

You can't dig into that and find any nuance, lol.

Also not shading Sloonei there, I still think he's town, even if he doesn't like my reasons why. At least I gave reasons.

[S~V~S]

Roxy is town. Her energy is vastly different than the previous two games where she was not town.

Although I have seen Roxy fake that energy when bad (she used to be more polarized than she is now, she's smoothed that out quite a bit) I would tend to agree. She's open minded and open to changing her mind, which i would associate more with her as town.

[S~V~S]

OK, caught up.

Today like yesterday will be a bear (heh) at work, but since i don't have to get up early for work tomorrow, I should be able to stay up till EOD tonight (10 is such a bad time for me, I go to bed by 9 work nights), so I'll be here after work.

If I don't have to save, I won't be voting for Roxy or Sloonei, I am unlikely to vote for Lemon again as while I still find her reaction to her vote sus, I agree with her that she wouldn't kill Cape. LongC is a complete Chaotic Neutral in best LC fashion, and i don't have much of a sense of anyone else, and hope they post more today.

[Lemonfairy]

@DarlingMonroe is visiting the RR3- looks like trains are in the yard! Choo-choo! Hahaha.

it appears I am fated with DM this game because we keep rolling the same spot

[Lemonfairy]

but fear not, I have rolled doubles so I'll get to roll again and go on my own journey, leaving this unfortunate entanglement behind as only distant memories on a summer's eve

[Lemonfairy]

I looked at some falcon posts, and I thought they could be villainous. Like where he calls Cape not-towny for bringing up Lime Coke and Sloonei as options, and Roxy agrees, and he says "mind-meld". Could be a negative bias on the reading but it gave me bad vibes in light of Cape's town flip.

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

I haven't looked at falcon that closely but maybe I should

[Lemonfairy]

what is the banana stand and how can I get there?

[Lemonfairy]

So I absolutely will not be voting for you and intend to defend you.

very nice

currently contemplating voting DrWilgy or SVS for IDK reasons

Please help me to understand your play. Why Wigly?
Why SVS?
You did expand on SVS that you thought that "slippery" and "slick" are words I tend to use when I find someone I believe to be bad - SVS thought you were bad - I did too - to keep this real - but the word choice. Yeah. Maybe she is doing the same as me. idk.

I'm just poking at people I don't find towny. I felt like not enough people were poking at Wilgy and if we have a lurky wolf, Wilgy kind of fits that mold where you're kind of there but not really. I think DM is really just not playing at this point so her alignment might be more at ~rand than bad. I still wouldn't mind voting them out though.

SVS was actually because I read my role again and it said I could get +1 vote the next day if I voted the dog. I was wondering if SVS had the same thing but with cat so that's why they voted me but they just gave legitimate-sounding reason. So I poked there. I think their initial reaction I had an instinctive OMGUS but when that passed, SVS felt like they could still be town but IDK.

I think it's possible we're just clashing with each other's playstyles and I've experienced this in the past and scumread the other person for it but they flipped town so I might just trust the reads that other people have on SVS. You guys have more meta on her anyway.

I still kind of want to vote her to test out the role thing though.

[Lemonfairy]

SVS was actually because I read my role again and it said I could get +1 vote the next day if I voted the dog. I was wondering if SVS had the same thing

I could just ask ig
@S~V~S

[Lemonfairy]

reads list:

TRs
Roxy
Long Con
Sloonei
Epignosis

TLs
SVS
Lime Coke

POE
falcon
DarlingMonroe
DrWilgy

[Lemonfairy]

reads list:

TRs
Roxy
Long Con
Sloonei
Epignosis

TLs
SVS
Lime Coke

POE
falcon
DarlingMonroe
DrWilgy

is the game really this easy?
are all the active people just town?

actually, I might move Sloonei and Epi down a level
don't get me wrong, I still find them towny but um I have to leave myself some room for error

TRs
Roxy
Long Con

TLs
Sloonei
Epignosis
SVS
Lime Coke

POE
falcon
DarlingMonroe
DrWilgy

[Lemonfairy]

what if I put Lime Coke in POE too?

[Lemonfairy]

TRs
Roxy
Long Con

TLs
Sloonei
Epignosis
SVS

POE
Lime Coke
falcon
DarlingMonroe
DrWilgy

so then if DM is really just a rand 0-poster, there's still enough in POE to make a scum team

[Lemonfairy]

actually, I thought about it
if SVS is scum, she does not push me, kill Cape, and then agree with me that I wouldn't kill Cape as scum

even if the Cape kill was because Cape was towny had nothing to do with me, there was no need to pull back from me like that, I don't think

[Long Con]

Ok, I will believe you are Town, Lemonfairy.

[Roxy]

LOL at my broken bold

Okay, is this Malcolm In The Monopoly, or Breaking Bold?

I giggled so thank you!

I thought Sloonei's take on S~V~S had just the amount of nuance and mafia instinct that I like. I might support him for that vote if it comes down to it, down the line. I know that S~V~S gave a reasonable rebuttal/explanation, but it didn't move me. That said, I need to read through the day again. Some was while I was on my phone at work, and involved some skimming, and some "this is between them and I'll let them work it out for now".

What did you see that was "this is between them and I'll let them work it out for now"?

Lemon's posts have felt different than in the last couple of games we have played. There is no whimsy that I am used to from them. I am feeling bad tone-age instead.

Yo, Roxy... that's an abstract way to judge a player. Whimsy levels as alignment-indicative? My imagination also forms the impression of a sleazy Matthew McConaughey. like "mucho bad tone-age, am I right? All right all right all right, ha!" Limitations of a text-based medium, perhaps, but that's that struck me.

ummm....have you played with me or hosted me?
I honestly cannot believe you are even asking this question!
I'll still explain it like we have NEVER played together before: I play on vibe and tone. I like using different words than most others do during a game - I actually think of it as my style. Nice way to shade me with your own use of the word - SLEAZY. About me.

When I said whimsy about Lemon it's bc they usually have more smiley and or gif's. It was a whole different Lemon for me this game so I was just trying to figure them out.

Now your post has "struck me".

[Roxy]

Won't be voting Roxy or lemon today. Starting there.

vice-versa my friend. I do, however, wonder since I read you opposite every game so I am in constant doubt/fear of you - I mean this in the nicest poss way.

SVS feels like obvious town.

SVS feels like obvious town.

Elaborate

yes, please do Elaborate Lime!

Would I have gaily followed if the vote were still for DM? I don't think so. Roxy is on there right now, and I don't currently trust Roxy or S~V~S a great deal. Both have given me vibey vibes here or there.

Drop the schtick. It is like you are now making fun of my playstyle and so I will kindly ask you to stop.

Roxy is town. Her energy is vastly different than the previous two games where she was not town.

[Roxy]

Ok then!

I once worked with a young woman who talked about energies. Like "this place has a really orange energy going on today, do you feel that?" Talkin' about peoples' auras and stuff. Completely batshit crazy from my perspective, but we got along fine.

I dig the mafia energy thing though. You sound sure enough.

[Roxy]

I thought Sloonei's take on S~V~S had just the amount of nuance and mafia instinct that I like. I might support him for that vote if it comes down to it, down the line. I know that S~V~S gave a reasonable rebuttal/explanation, but it didn't move me. That said, I need to read through the day again. Some was while I was on my phone at work, and involved some skimming, and some "this is between them and I'll let them work it out for now".

See, the problem with it was that it only had that amount of nuance becasue I was pretty much the only person to put a lot of reasoning into my vote. And he disagrees with my reasoning, so there was alot for him to pick apart.

Anyone (including you) who has played with me any amount of time knows I take my vote pretty seriously. I don't make day 1 votes out the gate, I don't RVS, and I try super hard not to vote on vibes with no explanation. It's WIFOM for me to say this for sure, but it is true. I like to give the person I'm voting for something to work with. I personally have problems that make it difficult for me to tell the difference between a joke vote and a not joke vote unless its super obvious (like Porscha voting for me becasue she had a dream I was a giraffe) and I like to give others the courtesy of understanding why I'm voting for them even if they disagree.

I don't recall everyones reasoning for final votes, I'm in bad early on work nights, but I'm fairly sure I gave the most detailed reasoning, and explained it more than once. I'm still Ok with my vote from Day One, whether or not Sloonei likes it.

Like Sloonei didn't mention Porscha till he voted for her, and his vote reasoning was thus:

I voted for Porscha because I felt like her posts were lacking in direction and purpose. In case anyone was wondering.

You can't dig into that and find any nuance, lol.

Also not shading Sloonei there, I still think he's town, even if he doesn't like my reasons why. At least I gave reasons.

I am feeling better about you since this post. Thanks friend <3

but fear not, I have rolled doubles so I'll get to roll again and go on my own journey, leaving this unfortunate entanglement behind as only distant memories on a summer's eve

Uh-oh please be careful as you are one of only 2 that I trust.

TRs
Roxy
Long Con

TLs
Sloonei
Epignosis
SVS

POE
Lime Coke
falcon
DarlingMonroe
DrWilgy

so then if DM is really just a rand 0-poster, there's still enough in POE to make a scum team

TRs

Lemon
Epignosis

TLs

Sloonei
SVS
Lime Coke - I really need more from you

POE

Long Con
DrWilgy - I need way more from you
falcon - How can you so busy that you cannot post but can bid on properties?

Not worth thinking about bc the host should be doing something soon about this slot.

DarlingMonroe

[Roxy]

Moved my vote to falcon for reasons given previously

[DrWilgy]

I voted lemon. Roxy looks like they did work and yay counterwagons

What about cape's car in Porscha?
Any other thoughts?
Also sorry about your hurricane issues. I understand if you are not all caught up and only reading this page.

Cape's car is sweet. Goes vroom vroom.

[DrWilgy]

Ah. that was the only direct.

I actually have a moment to catch up now so I'll read.

[DrWilgy]

Gamestate catchup.

Putting this here so I can be corrected if any of my conclusions are incorrect:

Porscha and Cape dead both town.

DM - rr3?

Epi - Air BNB, Hitchhike

Falc - Had immunity d1, lv-426

Fairy - 'joined the neighborhood' idk what this one means, derail ye rails

Lime

Long - Jailed, get out of jail,

Roxy - HurdyGurdyMan Ave, digapony

Sloonei - Bolt Sbit MPO Boulevard, Fuchsia 2, can't be elim d2

SVS - Doggerland 1, jail

~~~~~~~~~
So in terms of properties and possible related abilities:

Roxy, Sloonei and I are at 2 properties.

SVS, Fairy and Falc are at 1 property.

Epi has 1 ability in AirBNB.

So effectively until the end of D2 Sloon has the most potential ability power.

[DrWilgy]

Immediate thoughts, a consolidation of abilities between SVS and I could be beneficial if I can prove that they are town based on us being neighbors. I'll assess that during catchup.

I also see Roxy voicing for falc, who I previously thought was putting in T Roxy efforts based on what few posts I've seen.

[DrWilgy]

blah dm has less posts than me lol. Could vote but would be suboptimal in gamestate. Nor does that move the board at all.

[DrWilgy]

Epi's ISO is weird. There's questions that don't lead to conclusions and the read on Roxy and LemonFairy are otherwise unsubstantiated. While there's a minor stink about my and DM's presence, I'd think there's be more stink regarding our low activity from Epi, unless they've given up that schtick.

I can see W epi in this.

[DrWilgy]

Falc hasn't preformed anything within ISO that I'd clarify as a T Falco post.

Would yeet.

[Sloonei]

See, the problem with it was that it only had that amount of nuance becasue I was pretty much the only person to put a lot of reasoning into my vote. And he disagrees with my reasoning, so there was alot for him to pick apart.

But your vote has nothing to do with my suspicion of you.

[Sloonei]

@falcon45ca got free parking at the motorcade and is immune from elimination today.

"When moving, mafia may choose to roll with 2d6, 2d8 or 2d10"

That's an impressive 20-space movement, falcon.

I feel we haven't talked about this enough.

[Sloonei]

what is the banana stand and how can I get there?

Arrested Development: Season 1, Episode 2.

[DrWilgy]

we need something spicy to happen

your vote is the spiciest thing in the thread.

Why are dying on Cape Hill? What are you seeing that I am not?

I feel like this contains a wolf. I am bothered by what Roxy is saying here

your vote is the spiciest thing in the thread.

Why are dying on Cape Hill? What are you seeing that I am not?

I feel like this contains a wolf. I am bothered by what Roxy is saying here

methinks if there is a wolf in this, there is only 1 between Roxy and Cape

v/w or w/v and not w/w

lololololol

both saying the same thing. Neither bothered to clarify why, what or how they came to their conclusions.

Not caring about your silly votes. But why? What? How?

I thought it was clear why based on what I quoted
like I don't think wolfpartners treat each other the way you guys did in the quoted post

I understood that but why vote me? What made you vote me vs cape? why does there *have* to be a baddie in the grouping? Why can't it be town vs town? So many questions so little time....

idk, I just wanted to vote you (because it was spicy) and deflect your question about my vote on Cape
I wanted to hold up the illusion that I was always serious and idk see what happens

it could be v/v, I'm not saying it couldn't
I said if there is a wolf in you/Cape, you can't be both wolves
in hindsight I could have phrased that better and just said I don't think you're w/w

That one ^^. It just reads so like covering your bases. "I was joking, but kinda not really". It's kinda slippery, like you don't want to commit to one or the other.

it should be read with time in mind
like at first it was just a joke but then it became serious
but at the same time I had to explain I was just joking at first while I was considering how far to push the bit

so yeah, that's probably why it reads like that

ok I have to split this up to talk about it

That one ^^. It just reads so like covering your bases. "I was joking, but kinda not really". It's kinda slippery, like you don't want to commit to one or the other.

it should be read with time in mind
like at first it was just a joke but then it became serious
but at the same time I had to explain I was just joking at first while I was considering how far to push the bit

so yeah, that's probably why it reads like that

I'll take that into mind. But i pretty much always find that kind of post a way to have your cake and eat it too as it were, if you know what I mean. Slick.

Night folks!

I disagree with this line of suspicion from SVS on Lemonfairy. I thought Lemon’s unserious-serious vote felt like the kind of loose, uncalculated play that comes from a townie who’s just trying to get a feel for the game early on.

I have some slight beef with SVS, but I feel like she’ll struggle to answer any questions right now unless I’m asking her where I can find a quick influx of cash.

Well, you need to read the whole thing then, not just this snippet Lemon snipped out of a conversation.

Of the RVS votes, Lemons stuck out tht most to me, not sure if it was a joke since Capes vote was pretty obvs a joke, or not. Taking someones obvs joky RVS vote and trying to say it's actually suspish is a fairly typical baddie move. That looked like this to me, but i could also see it being it's own joke vote. So eh.

OK, but did you not see that I was clearly being reachy and gave a terrible reason?
If I were actually a wolf I'd have tried harder to give a legitimate-sounding reason if I wanted to push someone.

What I don't get is that you seem to understand I was doing RVS things and/or joking but you keep clinging on to it (and kind of ignoring everything else).
I also low-key think calling my actions "slippery" or "slick" feels more like narrative-building and trying to paint a picture of me than trying to sound me out with no intentions.

[VOTE: Cape90] aubergine

their case on falcon makes too much sense this early it has to be a premeditated move

You don't think he's sounding tongue in cheek?

I thought all the votes up to this point looks like random voting phase or whatever it’s called to me. I just reread capes vote and it still looks like a joke.

THIS was where I really started to suspect her. Her reaction to suspish from Roxy is to vote for her, and she is saying her vote was a joke; wait no, it wasn't. Wait, no, she was just being spicy.

This is a quote of you quoting falcon quoting me putting my initial vote on Cape.
I concede my vote on Roxy looked kind of bad but that was kind of intentional.

Regarding my vote on Cape, I feel like I have been repeating myself but it started out as a joke, which then turned a little serious, which then removed. I did end up townreading Cape at EOD. I am allowed to change my opinions/reads over time.

The spicy post was just a meme (and ig I was being a bit petty about the whole incident too).
IDK I thought it was a fun little post.

your vote is the spiciest thing in the thread.

Why are dying on Cape Hill? What are you seeing that I am not?

[VOTE: Roxy] aubergine

cool non-response but can you possibly answer my questions?

it was a non-serious vote and I exaggerated my commitment to it
but I also kind of agree with whoever pointed out Cape was voting someone absent/didn't post much so I do want to see where that goes

So... you didn't mean it, it was kind of a joke, BUT you did kinda mean it.

I just came in where I left off before leaving work, and I see you posted a lot more past this, so I want to see that. Becasue after your original cape vote, you had my eye. This is why I hate RVS, becasue someone always reads too much into a joke, then they get yeeted for it, and neither of them are bad. I felt Cape vote felt jokey, but yours didn't.

So I'll see how I feel after finishing catch up.

Then, continuing to No U Roxy.

Again, isn't this your post, not mine?
Where did I No U Roxy?

To further clarify, when I responded yes to your "So... you didn't mean it, it was kind of a joke, BUT you did kinda mean it.", that was for Cape's vote, not Roxy's.
And to be fair, all votes in the early stages where you're just testing to see what fits feels like they're kind of a joke but has the potential to become serious depending on how the voted acts/react after the vote is made. IDK why having a vote be both is a big deal and I can't tell if this is purely a meta clash between you and me or if you're trying to make something out to be more suspicious than it is.

we need something spicy to happen

your vote is the spiciest thing in the thread.

Why are dying on Cape Hill? What are you seeing that I am not?

I feel like this contains a wolf. I am bothered by what Roxy is saying here

methinks if there is a wolf in this, there is only 1 between Roxy and Cape

v/w or w/v and not w/w

Whenever she was engaged with over this, she doubled down on "it was a joke, no it wasn't", which I continued to view as sus. And went with "I was trying to be spicy, but no one liked it so I stopped". I didn't find it spicy, I found it sus.

And tbh had I not been insanified, I would have pushed it harder the second half of the day.

And if you're looking for that influx of cash, ther'es always cash in the banana stand.

See my previous comments for my view of the first line.

Also, this might be tinfoily but I think mafia killing Cape has the intended effect of making me look bad my vote on Cape D1 and pushing me in this direction straight out of the gate D2 does make my squint a little. On the other hand, I could also see mafia potentially taking advantage if town!SVS is just weirdly tunneled on me.

I like this, not in the sense that LemonFairy is town from it, but in the sense that there's dynamics around this slot.

LemonFairy's progression around Roxy/Cape reads OK to me given the context of how slow the game is, so I'm unsure if I see the same 'slippery-ness' that SVS pointed out. Often I find that as town, I 'want' to be right and that can even affect my bias towards things that start as jokes/baits and that kinda makes me believe fairy here.

What I don't know about in Fairy's ISO is the shift from forming this dynamic between Cape/Roxy and then a new one with SVS and then pivoting to a PoE of nulls.
Epi, Sloonei and LC are basically not talked about in the ISO and are TR/TL

Fairy's shift on SVS is ok, but meh

Roxy gets a weird TL.

I wouldn't yeet Fairy until we've advanced further and these dynamics become more clear. HOWEVER, I think the low poster POE without reference to reasoning behind 3 of the towns is kinda offputting.