[ENDGAME] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#2651

Black Rock wrote: So am I on LC's team or Sig's? Sorry I had no suspicion on Sig until he was outed by himself. I don't think I defended LC ALL game. I did say I didn't think he killed Epig and I was right. Who are you trying to lead the lynch away from today Timmer?

Timmer's point was that you had no mention of Sig, but threw a vote on him as soon as it was convenient. And I don't think you misunderstood what Timmer meant, this sounds very much like misrepresentation of his case to me.

BR is pretty high on my list right now, I'm thinking between her and Cobalt. MM is a possibility, but I'd like to hear more from him first.

#2652

Golden wrote:It does make sense Canuck. Entirely.

All I will say is that my personal feeling that Cobalt is bad is not based on his thread activity, and in that sense I actually would probably come around to your perspective.

Except that I still think he is TGG's teammate because of TGG's quit - its the reason I called out G-Man, and if that half of my argument was correct (he quit because epi came back) I think the second half has to be too (he quit because epi had called out one of his teammates). And when I read epi's posts from day one, I don't see who else but cobalt fits the bill. So from my perspective, my cobalt suspicion is about logic, not about cobalt's actual behaviour.

Thanks for reiterating that.

I know you've talked about that connection a million times, but in the midst of people making Cobalt reads based on his posting/not posting, I'd forgotten that the main strike against him was tied up in your TGG theory.

#2653

I'm basing my read off of what Cobalt talks about and what his actions are. Not responding to criticism in any capacity is, to be honest, shady.

The 2 reasons that I am not autovoting Cobalt now, who is hovering at the top of my scum list, are the facts that:
- I have a sneaking suspicion he was silenced today, and it is unfair to speculate on someone's posting gaps if it's out of their hands
- If he was silenced, why would they silence him now?
- I want to hear why MM, who also currently isn't high on my civ list, did a drive by Cobalt vote.

#2654

As promised, my thoughts on Ninja and Hedge (although they are rather slight). Ninja hasn't had much to say this game, but a couple of things stood out to me. She wanted to give G-Man "the benefit of the doubt" upon his replacing in, and later voted LC when both G-Man and LC were under suspicion. This could possibly indicate her being on G-Man's team.

She has also recently begun to scrutinize Epi 2.0, which reads like an honest suspicion to me. I don't particularly find Epi 2 suspicious, but I'm not pinged by Ninja doing so.

As for Hedge, I really don't have much to say about her beyond her being under the radar. She hasn't done or said anything suspicious lately, so she's slipped down pretty far on my suspicion list.

#2655

Why don't you find Epi 2 suspicious, DFaraday?

#2656

DFaraday wrote:She has also recently begun to scrutinize Epi 2.0, which reads like an honest suspicion to me.

That wasn't scrutiny. It was (re)stating the obvious.

#2657

Sloonei wrote:Why don't you find Epi 2 suspicious, DFaraday?

He suspects the same people as I do, and he seems genuine enough.

#2658

Hey, Neverwhere - sorry to hear things are rough in RL. Feels like you've been having a rough time. I'm around

and I hope you can manage to find the game is a nice place for emotional release from rl.

#2659

DFaraday wrote:
Black Rock wrote: So am I on LC's team or Sig's? Sorry I had no suspicion on Sig until he was outed by himself. I don't think I defended LC ALL game. I did say I didn't think he killed Epig and I was right. Who are you trying to lead the lynch away from today Timmer?
Timmer's point was that you had no mention of Sig, but threw a vote on him as soon as it was convenient. And I don't think you misunderstood what Timmer meant, this sounds very much like misrepresentation of his case to me.

BR is pretty high on my list right now, I'm thinking between her and Cobalt. MM is a possibility, but I'd like to hear more from him first.

Where did I misunderstand him? I don't think I misunderstood or stated I misunderstood him at all. It's funny how you use this to accuse me of misrepresented his case as you misrepresent my post.

#2660

In case anyone wants to know why I am okay voting Black Rock:

Epignosis wrote:
Golden wrote:I'd really like to get a few people's views on Black Rock.
I was hoping I'd wake up to BR's response to my questions.

Since people are voting already, I'll explain what's on my mind:

On this forum, if you leave an unpublished post in a tab for too long, it will say something to the effect of "The submitted form is no longer valid" or "This page has expire; please refresh." I forget the exact wording, but I know it has happened from time to time to me. It's no big deal: You hit F5 and your content is still there.

But Black Rock made it sound like posting what she did was an accident, like she had the wrong tab open or something (one that was left up for 12 hours?). Plus the "I forgot to press submit once and came back 12 hours later to see my post sitting there and then it got caught up in linkitis and then I failed" doesn't make sense from a technical standpoint.

Epignosis wrote:
Black Rock wrote:Epignosis, I find it very odd how your opinions haven't changed since you have a new role and you have completely switched gears. Bass your teammate?
How have I completely switched gears? My #1 suspect has enough votes to do him in, I think. I am therefore free to pursue other suspicions, and you are it.

Epignosis wrote:
Black Rock wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Black Rock wrote:I hope the poll isn't over soonish. I'll address Epig then.
It isn't, but it doesn't seem to bother you that you may be addressing me after the poll is over.

Voted.
I'll always put family and work over a game. If this bothers you then voting for me is the right thing for you to do at this point. It doesn't make me bad, I just have my priorities in the right order. Dogging me won't make you look good.
I don't care about looking good.

I work and have a million projects going on, and I have in-laws here who outnumber my family. I just made a delicious lasagna. Everyone has real life. Nobody here is a robot. So none of that matters to me in the context of this game, as none of it has any bearing on what role PM you got. I am not saying you are bad because you aren't posting a lot or posting when I want you to. I think you know that.

What DOES make you look bad:

I've been bad with you a few times recently and I am detecting some similarities.

Your posts not posting (the only time I have ever had that happen to me was at work because someone swore up a storm right before I posted and so the work filter kicked in). Technological issues with no precedent on my end raise my eyebrow.

The way you word things are flaky.

You missed the Day 1 vote (Yes ma'am, I find that suspicious, not because you have a reason for missing it). I find the content of your posts Day 0 and Day 1 suspicious in conjunction with missing the vote.

Finally, defending yourself by:

Black Rock wrote:I'll always put family and work over a game. If this bothers you then voting for me is the right thing for you to do at this point. It doesn't make me bad, I just have my priorities in the right order. Dogging me won't make you look good.
Anybody with work and family and good sense can say this.

Doesn't make you good.

And no, dogging you doesn't make me look bad.

#2661

Quick question- if Into the Woods is still alive, do you all think he/she pardons the one lynch during the day phase or night phase?

Because another thing that is giving me pause is that Cobalt could very much be Into the Woods. Am I wrong in thinking that is a possibility?

#2662

Scotty wrote:Quick question- if Into the Woods is still alive, do you all think he/she pardons the one lynch during the day phase or night phase?

Because another thing that is giving me pause is that Cobalt could very much be Into the Woods. Am I wrong in thinking that is a possibility?

Cobalt said he was going to make LC die. Not the same thing as a lynch pardon.

#2663

If Cobalt was going to 'pardon the lynch', why did he keep saying he was going to kill LC and get mad when LC didn't die?

I don't think it is out of the question that Into the Woods pardoned the lynch that day, it's possible. But it doesn't seem likely to have been Cobalt, to me.

#2664

OK, I wasn't asking about his lie. He even said he was lying. Do you think it's possible he could have pardoned himself?

#2665

Scotty wrote:OK, I wasn't asking about his lie. He even said he was lying. Do you think it's possible he could have pardoned himself?

I don't really give a shit about any of that.

I say he's bad.

I say Black Rock is bad.

I'll go for either one.

#2666

Scotty wrote:OK, I wasn't asking about his lie. He even said he was lying. Do you think it's possible he could have pardoned himself?

I don't think it's impossible, but I think it is very unlikely in the context of his behaviour at the time.

#2667

Epignosis wrote:
Scotty wrote:OK, I wasn't asking about his lie. He even said he was lying. Do you think it's possible he could have pardoned himself?
I don't really give a shit about any of that.

I say he's bad.

I say Black Rock is bad.

I'll go for either one.

Do you have anything to say about TinyBubbles or DFaraday?

#2668

I think DF's activity has increased slightly since you suggested he was bad.

#2669

Golden wrote:I think DF's activity has increased slightly since you suggested he was bad.

This is true, and I like some of his contributions over the last couple of days. It's not enough to make me feel good about him, but I my suspicion has wavered a little. I'd still like for him to be a person we discuss more thoroughly today.
I should ask him a bunch of questions.

#2670

Golden wrote:I think DF's activity has increased slightly since you suggested he was bad.

With canuckle's logic, that's a bad thing, right?

#2671

DFaraday wrote:As promised, my thoughts on Ninja and Hedge (although they are rather slight). Ninja hasn't had much to say this game, but a couple of things stood out to me. She wanted to give G-Man "the benefit of the doubt" upon his replacing in, and later voted LC when both G-Man and LC were under suspicion. This could possibly indicate her being on G-Man's team.

I think ninja has said quite a bit this game and disagree with that assessment of her. However, I've not done a close look at her posts with regards to sig and g-man interactions. I did notice some odd behavior towards her by sig earlier, so perhaps there's some merit to this. I'll take a closer look.

She has also recently begun to scrutinize Epi 2.0, which reads like an honest suspicion to me. I don't particularly find Epi 2 suspicious, but I'm not pinged by Ninja doing so.

As for Hedge, I really don't have much to say about her beyond her being under the radar. She hasn't done or said anything suspicious lately, so she's slipped down pretty far on my suspicion list.

If you look at the content of Hedge's posts, do you see anything in particular that raises any suspicions? There have been a number of players in this game who've been lurking in the shadows, and I don't think it's fair to only suspect Hedgeowl for this.

#2672

Scotty wrote:
Golden wrote:I think DF's activity has increased slightly since you suggested he was bad.
With canuckle's logic, that's a bad thing, right?

I don't think canuck would agree that is the logical end to her arguments about cobalt.

I'm not sure what I think about it though... good or bad. It was just an observation.

#2673

To DFaraday's credit, he's one of the only people who responded to my ISO of them, and most of his content since then has felt a bit better. I may be talking myself down from my own suspicion right now.
At any rate, Black Rock has definitely moved ahead of him today.

#2674

nijuukyugou interactions with/about g-man:

Spoiler: show

nijuukyugou wrote:I gotta stop doing this to myself. But moving takes so. Much. Time. Here we go.

So I've tabbed quotes from people that I agree with and/or find interesting (I'll make it clear what I think about them as I go). Sometimes I'm sad I wasn't there in real time to respond, but thems the breaks. I'll also comment on general things that have been discussed.
timmer wrote:
Dom wrote:
Coablt's discussion has been totally about role descriptions.... you can choose to believe or disbelieve him.
You obviously have the final say on this, Dom, so I'll move along. I'll just say that I don't like his play, and that if he is a civ, his actions have more likely hurt than helped the cause, imo.
I agree so, so much with this and with your longer post from before. I still think Cobalt is baddie bad bad, but in the offchance in my mind that he is civ, he is NOT playing a very civ-friendly game. His insanified posts are rather amusing, though.

I enjoyed the G-Man pictures (might be because I saw a few of them in Economics but wasn't actually in the game). In fact, I seem to enjoy reading G-Man's posts regardless, especially knowing his identity as Balaam (he humored my request for more ass jokes ). I hope you keep some of your pictures! But speaking of G-Man (or another of his former alter-ego players),
Golden wrote:So I went back to look at timing.

Epi dies. Epi replaces in. Epi has (I think) only two posts - one where he says 'I know who killed me' and one where he says 'my suspicions haven't changed'. Then TGG asks to be subbed out.

I honestly think it's very consistent with someone who was part of a team that killed epi, that they killed them for cause, and was upset when he was able to sub back in and express the particular sentiments that he did. I think G-Man and LC are a team. I feel less sure that bubbles is, but she definitely could be.

Does it suck that someone subbing out on a matter of principle could sink a team? Yes. But this is why you should always keep your cool in mafia. I guarantee you, when people complain about things being unfair in this game, it's almost always mafia. Because they perceive it has harmed their chances. I don't think Epi's views necessarily held great weight, and I think the reaction to him subbing back in provides a whole lot more information about how important they believed killing epi to be.
This is a fascinating analysis and, since Epi seems to be silenced and absent, dare I say interesting thought process. I like the ideas posed here (about TGG perhaps getting frustrated and mafia getting frustrated in general). It's a bit of a stretch but entirely possible. However, I'd like to give G-Man the BOTD for today at least since he's a totally different player than TGG. We'll see how it goes.

Scotty wrote:I REALLY want to hear more from row 3. So...calling MM, sig, njuu, nutella, and Turnip! Anything to report??
Roger that. I read and re-read your post about the messages, but my eyesight tends to start going double the more tired I get and, therefore, I get lost in longer analysis posts (this might be why I enjoy the G-Man pics - easier to read!). What information/analysis are you requesting, exactly? I'm happy to help where I can.

As for suspicions beyond Cobalt, I'm still game for LC (it's been a while and I got super distracted by Cobalt, but I liked and agreed with Epi's suspicion and analysis Day 1). TB (I don't really like calling her that, because it looks like tuberculosis so let's go with TBubbles instead) is an enigma but I'm getting some weird vibes. I keep flip-flopping on how I feel about her, TBH. One moment I was just about to post how I felt she was weird for voting LC instead of Cobalt because she thought the "bandwagon was scummy," and then I re-read that and think, "Oh wait, that's actually logical." So maybe it's just a vibe thing (I'm using that word a lot this game, I notice), although my gut is usually pretty good in mafia. I suppose I should say I have mixed feelings about ol' TBubbles - I feel bad if she's civ and she's feeling so frustrated with this game that she's self-voted, but on the other hand she's been saying "I'm civ! I'm civ!" the entire game without giving us any other reason to believe it beyond that. Plus I don't care for self-votes. But TBubbles, I hope you're not too frustrated, and I'm sorry you're not having much fun - I hope you stay and know that suspicion is nothing personal! Also, nutella seems a lot more serious and a little more biting in this game than I remember, and I'm pretty sure she's been civ in the other games I've played. So there's that. I'll probably give her another good look. Hope you had fun with Blooper stream-of-consciousness hour (and by that I mean I apologize for any discomfort it may have caused). Any questions before we move on?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Effective immediately, Metalmarsh89 has replaced Metalmarsh89. As a result, Metalmarsh89 cannot be lynched today.
I laughed out loud at this for real
Golden wrote:I don't recognise myself with that avatar. Where is my golden one!
You and me both, buddy. I keep looking for Blooper to see my last post on a page and it's confusing as fuck.

nijuukyugou wrote:Yikes. Last time I checked, LC was way ahead of G-Man in votes, and now it's a tie? I'm not terribly surprised, given the number of people who've expressed suspicion of G-Man in the thread, but I thought we were avoiding this situation? Then again, as Sloonei has said several times, it's been a lot more quiet during this Day period. It's been nice for keeping up!

This is one of the weirdest mafia games I've played in a while, because I've been in agreement with the top cases almost every time. I probably should be more concerned about that than I am, but it does make it easier on me come voting time, and I guess I'll be more concerned if anything goes wrong this time around. I'm going to vote LC, because I've felt his baddiness since Day 1 and I've agreed with many of the cases and points brought up about him regarding this baddiness. I think the cases for G-Man being bad are pretty...er, good and I think voting for either will give us good info, but I gotta vote some way and LC's been on the chopping block for quite some time. I'm definitely still looking at Cobalt, too, especially since he's quieted down like crazy (hiding a bit?), but that vote would go nowhere today. So, voting LC.

nijuukyugou wrote:Although...your nonchalance is most disconcerting, G-Man

The first two posts look pretty good for niju. In the first one especially she seems to offer strong early support for Golden's theory about Gamerguy's reasons for subbing out of the game, and her "benefit of the doubt" comment about G-man is qualified as being a temporary thing for his first day in the game, which I've got no issue with. The second posts again offers support of the G-man case, although I am a bit wary about the way she seems to be subtly skewing things toward LC by saying we should be "avoiding a tie". Actually, I'm gonna change my opinion and say I don't like the way she looks in this post. Seems like a verrrry sneaky way of dissuading potential G-man voters that day. But then one has to wonder if his teammates would have even bothered trying to save him that day seeing as his lynch seemed like a sure thing eventually.
In the third post I find it highly unlikely that it would be the case that she's trying to make anyone reconsider their vote at the time, as, again, G-man pretty much had one foot in the grave at the time, but it could be seen as another subtle way of distancing herself from her teammate.

This is making me reconsider my moderate town read on nijuu.

#2675

and because i was in the neighborhood, here's niju's posts with regards to sig:

Spoiler: show

Answers a couple of questions which I'd asked sig at a high-stress time (end of Day 1's contested vote). Could be seen as niju coming to the defense of her (inexperienced) partner in sig by answering questions for him in thread.

Spoiler: show

This is where sig's odd behavior toward Ninja starts. He freaked out about her vote and seemed to really try to spin something out of it but never really said anything too important about it. It looked very bizarre at the time and still does, and it's really the one thing that's been unnerving me about Ninja all game before now. But this post is just her responding to sig's initial reaction by saying she wanted to "make things interesting" with her vote, and that she's "wary of all three (LC, Cobalt, SVS)". Nothing about her response pings me, but sig's behavior is and always has been strange here. Even niju has acknowledged this.

Spoiler: show

Offers vague support of my sig case, while also saying that she had both forgotten about him and been suspicious of him. Now that I've got my tunnel vision on, this post is giving me major teammate vibes. Hm.

Spoiler: show

Throws a self-admitted drive-by vote onto sig after he'd already accumulated a good number of votes.

Spoiler: show

And here's where she responds to my analysis of sig's posts post-mortem and (finally) reacts to sig's weird behavior toward her, days after the event actually occurred, and after he'd been lynched. If she had noticed this before, and was confused by it, why did she wait until after sig was lynched to say anything about it?

nijuu does not look good in relation to either of the dead Lloyd Webber baddies. Uh oh.

#2676

Sloonei wrote:
Golden wrote:I think DF's activity has increased slightly since you suggested he was bad.
This is true, and I like some of his contributions over the last couple of days. It's not enough to make me feel good about him, but I my suspicion has wavered a little. I'd still like for him to be a person we discuss more thoroughly today.
I should ask him a bunch of questions.

Who was giving you shit about all the questions earlier in this game?

It needs a term. Maybe, Sloonterigate.

Dude, are you sloonterigated me, what give?

It's late, this is what my brain has to offer without having read the last few pages.

#2677

gah, the damn typos. clearly I need to sleep now, it's 2am here.

#2678

Hedgeowl wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Golden wrote:I think DF's activity has increased slightly since you suggested he was bad.
This is true, and I like some of his contributions over the last couple of days. It's not enough to make me feel good about him, but I my suspicion has wavered a little. I'd still like for him to be a person we discuss more thoroughly today.
I should ask him a bunch of questions.
Who was giving you shit about all the questions earlier in this game? It needs a term. Maybe, Sloonterigate.

Dude, are you sloonterigated me, what give?

It's late, this is what my brain has to offer without having read the last few pages.

i am honored.

#2679

Sloonei - add to the ninja case that she voted les mis.

I say this because of my note that I would think baddie teams would want to be on both sides of that equation, and mafia 1 killed FZ and the other options are you (I don't think its you) and Scotty (possible).

Ninja is by no means my top candidate, but I'm also very conscious of the fact that I was reading ninja as civ in Biblical when she in fact wasn't. I'll do my own read back on her, at least.

Right now, my preferences for lynch would be in this order (for purposes of where this leaves ninja in my thinking)

1) Cobalt
2) BR
3) bubbles
4) ninja

So not hugely high right now. But given in my own mind I have Cobalt and ninja as mafia 1, and BR and bubbles as mafia 2, my theory of the game does suggest that it is possible all four of these could be bad.

#2680

Golden wrote:If Cobalt was going to 'pardon the lynch', why did he keep saying he was going to kill LC and get mad when LC didn't die?

I don't think it is out of the question that Into the Woods pardoned the lynch that day, it's possible. But it doesn't seem likely to have been Cobalt, to me.

Ye, my ability was to change any day's lynch to a target of my choosing. If Into The Woods pardoned it then fuck them cuz he was scum and I was right.

Addressing the other posts @ me shortly. Reading through my other game that just started first.

#2681

btw, I don't blame you guys for wanting to lynch me, I've done fuck all since LC got wiped. And since a little bit before that even. Working on banging some serious posts out tonight, I'm in the mafia mood, gotta scratch that itch.

#2682

Also, because it's not really been talked about yet and I don't really know what to expect, how worried should we be about the remaining indies? How likely is it that they pose a big threat to us right now? I assume serial killers are a regularish thing here, but it doesn't seem like we've got one in this game, but that doesn't mean there's no indie roles that can do harm.

#2683

Golden wrote:Sloonei - add to the ninja case that she voted les mis.

I say this because of my note that I would think baddie teams would want to be on both sides of that equation, and mafia 1 killed FZ and the other options are you (I don't think its you) and Scotty (possible).

Ninja is by no means my top candidate, but I'm also very conscious of the fact that I was reading ninja as civ in Biblical when she in fact wasn't. I'll do my own read back on her, at least.

Right now, my preferences for lynch would be in this order (for purposes of where this leaves ninja in my thinking)

1) Cobalt
2) BR
3) bubbles
4) ninja

So not hugely high right now. But given in my own mind I have Cobalt and ninja as mafia 1, and BR and bubbles as mafia 2, my theory of the game does suggest that it is possible all four of these could be bad.

This is also true. I think I'm gonna toss my previous ISO of nijuu completely out the window and start from scratch tomorrow. It's late and I'm tired right now.

#2684

Mmkay, let's get crackin. This day phase so far.

Golden wrote:A massacre is not the gist of the West Side Story role. It was just a specific word in there that was distinctive that I thought Scotty could use to confirm we had the same role.

Sloonei - I've read all of your iso's. At this point my vote is most likely to go to Cobalt or bubbles. Because I think the evidence points in those directions. Bubbles sounds like she is scrambling. Cobalt has certainly settled down but here is what for me is so persuasive I can't look beyond it...

TGG's team killed Epi. Epi subbed back in and said his views were still the same. TGG promptly quit. Why did that happen if none of Epi's views were about one of TGG's teammates? For me, the absolute most critical thing I think we can do today is analyse Epi's posts on day one. For me they lead to Cobalt, but I'd like to hear other views.

Except Epi went for me as soon as my vote wound up on SVS instead of Long Con, so Epi did have views on me. Why would I be stupid enough to kill someone who wanted my head on a platter on night one?

Sloonei wrote:I am getting a little impatient waiting for Cobalt to start playing again and I'm becoming more suspicious of him as the days go by.

Oh hai.

timmer wrote:Main points for me.

1. Despite posting quite a bit that day, BR's vote post against sig is the only she mentioned him all game. She hadn't ever mentioned him before, she didn't technically even mention him when she voted him, and she never mentioned him after. Search "sig" through her posts, he will only appear in the posts of people she quoted in a reply. Yet she voted for him to be lynched AFTER saying she was CERTAIN Bass is bad.

2. Has defended Long Con all game.

3. Has focused her attentions more on talking about players who aren't around (Turnip Head) or secondary to any of the game's main story lines (Bass) and avoided talking about the main points, unless defending Long Con (never talked about Cobalt/Long Con the day Cobalt took all of the lynch votes).

She's bad.

I'm totally down for a Scum Rock lynch today. I've felt the same way about her defending LC except I haven't been able to articulate it in the way you did in your longer post, thanks for that.

Sloonei wrote:
Black Rock wrote:
timmer wrote:Main points for me.

1. Despite posting quite a bit that day, BR's vote post against sig is the only she mentioned him all game. She hadn't ever mentioned him before, she didn't technically even mention him when she voted him, and she never mentioned him after. Search "sig" through her posts, he will only appear in the posts of people she quoted in a reply. Yet she voted for him to be lynched AFTER saying she was CERTAIN Bass is bad.

2. Has defended Long Con all game.

3. Has focused her attentions more on talking about players who aren't around (Turnip Head) or secondary to any of the game's main story lines (Bass) and avoided talking about the main points, unless defending Long Con (never talked about Cobalt/Long Con the day Cobalt took all of the lynch votes).

She's bad.
So am I on LC's team or Sig's? Sorry I had no suspicion on Sig until he was outed by himself. I don't think I defended LC ALL game. I did say I didn't think he killed Epig and I was right. Who are you trying to lead the lynch away from today Timmer?
Why do you suspect he's tryin to lead the lynch away from someone?

I agree with Sloonei here actually. Timmer comes out with a completely reasonable list of things that she's done that make her look scummy, and all she does is try to make him look bad and say he's trying to lead the lynch away from someone? It's a weak way to defend herself and make someone look bad for wanting to vote her, almost an OMGUS in disguise.

Scotty wrote:
Canucklehead wrote:Earlier in my catch-up I was feeling that Cobalt was deffo bad, but the fact that he hasn't yet lived up to his promise to be more engaged actually makes me less suspicious of him (contrary to Sloonei's opposite thought). I just think the impetus to clean up your image and contribute is much stronger for the mafia (especially if you've got a chat room full of buddies counting on you to do so), while civs who are feeling disengaged/uninterested in the game have no real push to get back into it.
Yes, except Cobalt hasn't been taking any heat in the past few days, so what impetus does he have to clean up and be more engaging? Not really until last night, honestly, have we (Epi, then I) brought him back into suspicion. When he posted explaining he was playing lazy the last few days, I expected that was on account of the fact that he could just skim. He was already pretty ambiguously aligned. Wouldn't a civ try and contribute at this point?

The longer he sits away from the game, the more suspicious I grow of him.

Also @ you, oh hai.

Golden wrote:It does make sense Canuck. Entirely.

All I will say is that my personal feeling that Cobalt is bad is not based on his thread activity, and in that sense I actually would probably come around to your perspective.

Except that I still think he is TGG's teammate because of TGG's quit - its the reason I called out G-Man, and if that half of my argument was correct (he quit because epi came back) I think the second half has to be too (he quit because epi had called out one of his teammates). And when I read epi's posts from day one, I don't see who else but cobalt fits the bill. So from my perspective, my cobalt suspicion is about logic, not about cobalt's actual behaviour.

I made that post about TGG early in the game I think it was day one, someone else already quoted it. If I were scum team with him, I wouldn't go near him with a ten foot pole. I know how he plays and I know how I play, and we'd work better working different angles.

Scotty wrote:I'm basing my read off of what Cobalt talks about and what his actions are. Not responding to criticism in any capacity is, to be honest, shady.

The 2 reasons that I am not autovoting Cobalt now, who is hovering at the top of my scum list, are the facts that:
- I have a sneaking suspicion he was silenced today, and it is unfair to speculate on someone's posting gaps if it's out of their hands
- If he was silenced, why would they silence him now?
- I want to hear why MM, who also currently isn't high on my civ list, did a drive by Cobalt vote.

MM said he would be traveling or something towards the end of the last day phase? I've felt pretty safe about him for most of the game cuz he voted LC even before I did, so that's why I voted him when I was busy and I wouldn't be around. Maybe he did the same thing? I'm not sure how he feels about me but if he feels safe as well maybe he thought I wouldn't be lynched today and just wanted to put a vote somewhere. No idea, I'd like to know too though.

Epignosis wrote:
Scotty wrote:Quick question- if Into the Woods is still alive, do you all think he/she pardons the one lynch during the day phase or night phase?

Because another thing that is giving me pause is that Cobalt could very much be Into the Woods. Am I wrong in thinking that is a possibility?
Cobalt said he was going to make LC die. Not the same thing as a lynch pardon.

Correctamundo.

Epignosis wrote:
Scotty wrote:OK, I wasn't asking about his lie. He even said he was lying. Do you think it's possible he could have pardoned himself?
I don't really give a shit about any of that.

I say he's bad.

I say Black Rock is bad.

I'll go for either one.

See, I think you're bad, but your willingness to go for Black Rock gives me pause because she's my strongest scum read right now.

I'm willing to commit my vote to Black Rock today, I'm going to do so.

Anybody have any questions for me while I'm around?

#2685

Sloonei wrote:Also, because it's not really been talked about yet and I don't really know what to expect, how worried should we be about the remaining indies? How likely is it that they pose a big threat to us right now? I assume serial killers are a regularish thing here, but it doesn't seem like we've got one in this game, but that doesn't mean there's no indie roles that can do harm.

In my experience, it depends heavily on the host. I can't remember playing a dom game before. Sometimes independents just have their own win conditions (like in biblical mafia which epi hosted, where all four of them ended up winning because they each met their own win condition even though they were dead). Sometimes they are serial killers. Sometimes they can simply win with whatever side and have no particular nefarious motives at all other than survival. I'd like to think that if we had an independent serial killer, we'd have evidence of it by now. Beyond that, independents are usually not much of a threat, just not necessarily reliable to act in the towns interests.

#2686

Is MM silenced? Have we heard from him today? He's been active in guess who. I'm guessing he's our silencee today.

#2687

As if I need any more to make me think Cobalt is mafia 1... anyone who is attacking someone who we think to be on mafia 2 'looks civ' to him.

Why? Why is someone civ because they catch people on one side of the fence? It takes catching people on both sides to make them civ.

Also, the responses to my point about TGG are entirely wifom, and not at all inconsistent with my theory. Want me to believe you are not bad? Explain to me why TGG quit.

#2688

Golden wrote:As if I need any more to make me think Cobalt is mafia 1... anyone who is attacking someone who we think to be on mafia 2 'looks civ' to him.

Why? Why is someone civ because they catch people on one side of the fence? It takes catching people on both sides to make them civ.

Also, the responses to my point about TGG are entirely wifom, and not at all inconsistent with my theory. Want me to believe you are not bad? Explain to me why TGG quit.

He's talked about his bad internet on other sites. It's not like he was lying about it. He legitimately could not participate. That's why he withdrew.

#2689

Cobalt wrote:
Golden wrote:As if I need any more to make me think Cobalt is mafia 1... anyone who is attacking someone who we think to be on mafia 2 'looks civ' to him.

Why? Why is someone civ because they catch people on one side of the fence? It takes catching people on both sides to make them civ.

Also, the responses to my point about TGG are entirely wifom, and not at all inconsistent with my theory. Want me to believe you are not bad? Explain to me why TGG quit.
He's talked about his bad internet on other sites. It's not like he was lying about it. He legitimately could not participate. That's why he withdrew.

Why are you defending a dead scum player? Am I scum?

#2690

He's also talked on other sites about how angry he is about people letting deadies sub in, and you've replied to it. Right after subbing out. I didn't bring the other site into it, but since you did it's fair game in a case against you. You know that's at least part of why he subbed out. I'm not disputing the internet issues were also part.

Why do you think he was mad about epi subbing back in?

#2691

I will say, I think TGG handled the situation as well as he could short of choosing not to sub out, and I don't criticise him for it. He didn't intentionally drop his team in it. But he was rumbled.

#2692

It's not even like on the other site he had a bad attitude, I wanna be really clear here. He just said enough that it was clear it was part of why he subbed out. And Cobalt, I know you know it.

#2693

Sloonei wrote:
Cobalt wrote:
Golden wrote:As if I need any more to make me think Cobalt is mafia 1... anyone who is attacking someone who we think to be on mafia 2 'looks civ' to him.

Why? Why is someone civ because they catch people on one side of the fence? It takes catching people on both sides to make them civ.

Also, the responses to my point about TGG are entirely wifom, and not at all inconsistent with my theory. Want me to believe you are not bad? Explain to me why TGG quit.
He's talked about his bad internet on other sites. It's not like he was lying about it. He legitimately could not participate. That's why he withdrew.
Why are you defending a dead scum player? Am I scum?

1. I'm not, I answered a question. 2, possibly.

#2694

Sloonei wrote:
Cobalt wrote:
Golden wrote:As if I need any more to make me think Cobalt is mafia 1... anyone who is attacking someone who we think to be on mafia 2 'looks civ' to him.

Why? Why is someone civ because they catch people on one side of the fence? It takes catching people on both sides to make them civ.

Also, the responses to my point about TGG are entirely wifom, and not at all inconsistent with my theory. Want me to believe you are not bad? Explain to me why TGG quit.
He's talked about his bad internet on other sites. It's not like he was lying about it. He legitimately could not participate. That's why he withdrew.
Why are you defending a dead scum player? Am I scum?

To be fair, I did ask him to give a believable alternate reason for why TGG quit... but I'm not taking 'internet issues' as his final answer. I want an alternate answer for why he was specifically upset about epi returning to the game. One that I could see.

Because honestly Cobalt - if you can convince me there is another reasonable answer, I'll consider it, because your thread game hasn't been so bad, to me.

#2695

Golden wrote:He's also talked on other sites about how angry he is about people letting deadies sub in, and you've replied to it. Right after subbing out. I didn't bring the other site into it, but since you did it's fair game in a case against you. You know that's at least part of why he subbed out. I'm not disputing the internet issues were also part.

Why do you think he was mad about epi subbing back in?

That's not how we do things there. Someone dies, they're dead. Kills are made for a variety of reasons. He was on the baddie team that killed Epi, yes? If they killed him, they wanted him dead for a reason, and it sure as fuck was not to protect my bitch ass. Deadies subbing in is not what TGG was used to and it rumbled him because it's a fuck you and a waste of a night kill. I'd have been pissed if I were mafia and killed someone only to have them jump back in the game.

Golden wrote:It's not even like on the other site he had a bad attitude, I wanna be really clear here. He just said enough that it was clear it was part of why he subbed out. And Cobalt, I know you know it.

I actually forgot about him saying that mostly until you mentioned it now, and we did talk about it on the other site, I remember. My explanation above still stands.

I don't see what angle you're getting at here? We weren't teammates. I'm civilian. Don't believe me, please feel free to lynch me today.

Humor me for a minute, if you were to believe I was civilian hypothetically, what questions would you ask me?

What questions do you have for me now when you think I'm mafia, other than to try and link me to TGG?

#2696

The "reasonable" answer you're looking for as to why TGG was rumbled by Epi subbing back in dead is because it's unfamiliar territory and unheard of where we hail from, and even where I hail from before that. A dead player subbing in? Like, I was taken aback by that and I didn't even kill him.

#2697

Cobalt wrote:Humor me for a minute, if you were to believe I was civilian hypothetically, what questions would you ask me?

What questions do you have for me now when you think I'm mafia, other than to try and link me to TGG?

First thing - I try to ask people the same questions no matter which way I lean on them, because I think everyone should have a chance to prove me wrong (whether thats prove my mafia read wrong or prove my civ read wrong).

But my question for you is - I feel you've focussed a lot on people you think are on LC's team. What are your thoughts about mafia team 1? You know sig and TGG better than most of us, so you should be in the best position to help us figure out who their teammates are.

#2698

Golden wrote:
Cobalt wrote:Humor me for a minute, if you were to believe I was civilian hypothetically, what questions would you ask me?

What questions do you have for me now when you think I'm mafia, other than to try and link me to TGG?
First thing - I try to ask people the same questions no matter which way I lean on them, because I think everyone should have a chance to prove me wrong (whether thats prove my mafia read wrong or prove my civ read wrong).

But my question for you is - I feel you've focussed a lot on people you think are on LC's team. What are your thoughts about mafia team 1? You know sig and TGG better than most of us, so you should be in the best position to help us figure out who their teammates are.

Let me take a look at Sig's posts, he in particular was weak, I had a scum read on him as soon as he kept trying to train me after every single one of my posts so early in the game. I'll see if I can draw any connections, and I'll have to go back to G-Man as well because I didn't keep that close of an eye on him.

I'll let you know what I think in a little bit.

#2699

Cobalt wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Cobalt wrote:
Golden wrote:As if I need any more to make me think Cobalt is mafia 1... anyone who is attacking someone who we think to be on mafia 2 'looks civ' to him.

Why? Why is someone civ because they catch people on one side of the fence? It takes catching people on both sides to make them civ.

Also, the responses to my point about TGG are entirely wifom, and not at all inconsistent with my theory. Want me to believe you are not bad? Explain to me why TGG quit.
He's talked about his bad internet on other sites. It's not like he was lying about it. He legitimately could not participate. That's why he withdrew.
Why are you defending a dead scum player? Am I scum?
1. I'm not, I answered a question. 2, possibly.

If you had to give a yes or no answer to #2 right now, what would you say? Why?

#2700

Sloonei wrote:
Cobalt wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Cobalt wrote:
Golden wrote:As if I need any more to make me think Cobalt is mafia 1... anyone who is attacking someone who we think to be on mafia 2 'looks civ' to him.

Why? Why is someone civ because they catch people on one side of the fence? It takes catching people on both sides to make them civ.

Also, the responses to my point about TGG are entirely wifom, and not at all inconsistent with my theory. Want me to believe you are not bad? Explain to me why TGG quit.
He's talked about his bad internet on other sites. It's not like he was lying about it. He legitimately could not participate. That's why he withdrew.
Why are you defending a dead scum player? Am I scum?
1. I'm not, I answered a question. 2, possibly.
If you had to give a yes or no answer to #2 right now, what would you say? Why?

I would say yes, tentatively. You've done an enormous effort in making yourself look like a strong civilian voice which is the one thing that really ticks me about you. You analyze every post everyone's ever made to the point where, if you were scum, it would be indistinguishable who you were actually trying to incriminate, and who you were soft clearing, or who you were clearing by painting them scum in case you flipped scum, and that whole area becomes WIFOM. Frankly, you flipping scum makes it even more complicated because then we have to try to piece together your reads, and that all becomes WIFOM considering how you've put everything out there.

I just have a really hard time buying your effort as honest and not manipulative.

Who killed MM? (not changeable)