[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Ricochet]

Here's another theory I would like to introduce. Epignosis loves revenge. He will exact revenge for not only himself, but for teammates as well, and I have been a victim of this. Now, in Recruitment Mafia, Golden "got Epignosis nightkilled by mafia" very early in that game. As an act of vengeance, Epignosis would return the favor and nightkill Golden.

You said you don't think Psycho Killer was blocked.

If PsK was blocked, then nobody would die, right?

Yes, but how do you then introduce the idea that Epi would revenge kill Golden (for Recruitement) as the SK? What's with the second kill in that case?

What theory do you find more or most likely about this double kill (attempt), from what's been said? If none, what's yours?

[Marmot]

Here's another theory I would like to introduce. Epignosis loves revenge. He will exact revenge for not only himself, but for teammates as well, and I have been a victim of this. Now, in Recruitment Mafia, Golden "got Epignosis nightkilled by mafia" very early in that game. As an act of vengeance, Epignosis would return the favor and nightkill Golden.

You said you don't think Psycho Killer was blocked.

If PsK was blocked, then nobody would die, right?

Yes, but how do you then introduce the idea that Epi would revenge kill Golden (for Recruitement) as the SK? What's with the second kill in that case?

What theory do you find more or most likely about this double kill (attempt), from what's been said? If none, what's yours?

I think this is what happened, and that was Golden's role. It wouldn't matter who PsK is in that case.

[Ricochet]

Here's another theory I would like to introduce. Epignosis loves revenge. He will exact revenge for not only himself, but for teammates as well, and I have been a victim of this. Now, in Recruitment Mafia, Golden "got Epignosis nightkilled by mafia" very early in that game. As an act of vengeance, Epignosis would return the favor and nightkill Golden.

You said you don't think Psycho Killer was blocked.

If PsK was blocked, then nobody would die, right?

Yes, but how do you then introduce the idea that Epi would revenge kill Golden (for Recruitement) as the SK? What's with the second kill in that case?

What theory do you find more or most likely about this double kill (attempt), from what's been said? If none, what's yours?

I think this is what happened, and that was Golden's role. It wouldn't matter who PsK is in that case.

How did he survive Day 3 and how did bea got lynched instead, then?

[Ricochet]

The second part is more important than the first, which should be obvious, if the second part would not have happened.

[Epignosis]

That's a loaded comment Epignosis.

What do you mean?

- Epignosis could be bluffing.
- If he is not, he could be implying that the real Psycho Killer knows who he/she are, and that Epignosis is not he/she.
- He could also be implying that another player knows what Epignosis's role is for whatever reason, and thus cannot be Psycho Killer.
- He could just be saying that he knows he is not Psycho Killer in a roundabout way.

Some of these ideas take the discussion to areas that are OB. Epignosis dropped a lot of implications with a single statement.



Here's another theory I would like to introduce. Epignosis loves revenge. He will exact revenge for not only himself, but for teammates as well, and I have been a victim of this. Now, in Recruitment Mafia, Golden "got Epignosis nightkilled by mafia" very early in that game. As an act of vengeance, Epignosis would return the favor and nightkill Golden.

Another comment on what I usually do ("Epignosis loves revenge") that cannot be supported by my history. I can only think of one time I executed someone in another game out of revenge.

And Golden didn't get me Night killed in Recruitment. My death was bad luck from a redirection of some sort.

[Marmot]

Here's another theory I would like to introduce. Epignosis loves revenge. He will exact revenge for not only himself, but for teammates as well, and I have been a victim of this. Now, in Recruitment Mafia, Golden "got Epignosis nightkilled by mafia" very early in that game. As an act of vengeance, Epignosis would return the favor and nightkill Golden.

You said you don't think Psycho Killer was blocked.

If PsK was blocked, then nobody would die, right?

Yes, but how do you then introduce the idea that Epi would revenge kill Golden (for Recruitement) as the SK? What's with the second kill in that case?

What theory do you find more or most likely about this double kill (attempt), from what's been said? If none, what's yours?

I think this is what happened, and that was Golden's role. It wouldn't matter who PsK is in that case.

How did he survive Day 3 and how did bea got lynched instead, then?

No idea. I don't think there's a role-power that explains why that would happen.

[Ricochet]

Here's another theory I would like to introduce. Epignosis loves revenge. He will exact revenge for not only himself, but for teammates as well, and I have been a victim of this. Now, in Recruitment Mafia, Golden "got Epignosis nightkilled by mafia" very early in that game. As an act of vengeance, Epignosis would return the favor and nightkill Golden.

You said you don't think Psycho Killer was blocked.

If PsK was blocked, then nobody would die, right?

Yes, but how do you then introduce the idea that Epi would revenge kill Golden (for Recruitement) as the SK? What's with the second kill in that case?

What theory do you find more or most likely about this double kill (attempt), from what's been said? If none, what's yours?

I think this is what happened, and that was Golden's role. It wouldn't matter who PsK is in that case.

How did he survive Day 3 and how did bea got lynched instead, then?

No idea. I don't think there's a role-power that explains why that would happen.

Please don't make me search the web for the orly small emoticon.

Besides, Golden was basically obvious about the whole thing and about his next plans. He even got punished afterwards for those.

[Marmot]

That's a loaded comment Epignosis.

What do you mean?

- Epignosis could be bluffing.
- If he is not, he could be implying that the real Psycho Killer knows who he/she are, and that Epignosis is not he/she.
- He could also be implying that another player knows what Epignosis's role is for whatever reason, and thus cannot be Psycho Killer.
- He could just be saying that he knows he is not Psycho Killer in a roundabout way.

Some of these ideas take the discussion to areas that are OB. Epignosis dropped a lot of implications with a single statement.



Here's another theory I would like to introduce. Epignosis loves revenge. He will exact revenge for not only himself, but for teammates as well, and I have been a victim of this. Now, in Recruitment Mafia, Golden "got Epignosis nightkilled by mafia" very early in that game. As an act of vengeance, Epignosis would return the favor and nightkill Golden.

Another comment on what I usually do ("Epignosis loves revenge") that cannot be supported by my history. I can only think of one time I executed someone in another game out of revenge.

And Golden didn't get me Night killed in Recruitment. My death was bad luck from a redirection of some sort.

That's why I was theorizing.

And I was not aware of the redirection in Recruitment, but I have recently been corrected. Thanks.

[Marmot]

You said you don't think Psycho Killer was blocked.

If PsK was blocked, then nobody would die, right?

Yes, but how do you then introduce the idea that Epi would revenge kill Golden (for Recruitement) as the SK? What's with the second kill in that case?

What theory do you find more or most likely about this double kill (attempt), from what's been said? If none, what's yours?

I think this is what happened, and that was Golden's role. It wouldn't matter who PsK is in that case.

How did he survive Day 3 and how did bea got lynched instead, then?

No idea. I don't think there's a role-power that explains why that would happen.

Please don't make me search the web for the orly small emoticon. EDIT:

Besides, Golden was basically obvious about the whole thing and about his next plans. He even got punished afterwards for those.

I was looking for a lynch switch and nothing else. Fooey.

[Black Rock]

I don't deserve to die anymore.

Who deserves to die now?

I do, I deserve to die for failing my punishment.

Roxy has now voted Matt five Days in a row.

I didn't realize this. That's something I would do if I had a lead and no one was listening to me.

Uh no, the night kills will probably be inherited by the other bad party.

Never heard of the mafia inheriting an SK's kill before.

I have, it's not crazy to believe if there is only one killing entity left that they would get to kill every night.

As a host I would wait until both the SK and civ ninja were dead though.


Now that I'm all caught up, does anyone else get the feeling that Roxy could be the SK?

Just a feeling I had as I was catching up. Her tone when discussing such matters... I don't know seems a bit off.

[Black Rock]

The whole time I was catching up and actually reading Roxys posts I thought it was Unfurl. While I was writing the post I noticed Unfurl was not playing. I then went back and saw it was in fact Roxy and changed the name in my post. Because of her Avatar I have two very different opinions on Roxy. Does she know something about Matt or is she a killer? By her posts I am leaning towards killer, by her voting record I am leaning towards info. What is a lady to do.

[fingersplints]

No, BR I do not think Roxy is the SK. I have a hard time believing someone who knows her like you do would actually think that she would Nk a fairly new player to the site N1.

I agree with the kill inheriting discussed. If I had one faction killing one night, and the second another, whatever team left would inherit the kill regardless of size. I think I've seen it eliminated, but this is most likely imo

I should probably just be lynched because I deserve to die on account of missing the vote and all.

[Black Rock]

The whole time I was catching up and actually reading Roxys posts I thought it was Unfurl. While I was writing the post I noticed Unfurl was not playing. I then went back and saw it was in fact Roxy and changed the name in my post. Because of her Avatar I have two very different opinions on Roxy. Does she know something about Matt or is she a killer? By her posts I am leaning towards killer, by her voting record I am leaning towards info. What is a lady to do.

What I meant was exactly this but...

I deserve to die because I suck at punishment.

[Marmot]

The masochism rings strongly today.

[Black Rock]

No, BR I do not think Roxy is the SK. I have a hard time believing someone who knows her like you do would actually think that she would Nk a fairly new player to the site N1.

I agree with the kill inheriting discussed. If I had one faction killing one night, and the second another, whatever team left would inherit the kill regardless of size. I think I've seen it eliminated, but this is most likely imo

I should probably just be lynched because I deserve to die on account of missing the vote and all.

I think that is a bit narrow minded. I wouldn't knock her off the list just because of a night one kill.

I must admit I have no idea who was killed night one. I decided to move forward to keep up with the game as it is playing out.

I like your soft defend coupled with a soft accuse. Well played.

I see how you think you deserve to die, but I deserve to die because I missed a lynch and then didn't complete my punishment.

[Marmot]

Fastest Syndicateer to 2,000? Maybe? Ehhh???

I like stats. Here's some stats.

Syndicaters with the highest post-per-day average. I think I didn't miss anyone.

33.05 - a2thezebra*
13.33 - JaggedJimmyJay
12.62 - Metalmarsh89**
12.31 - MovingPictures07
12.29 - Golden
11.53 - Epignosis
9.99 - Ricochet
9.66 - thellama73
9.57 - MacDougall
9.31 - S~V~S

* Many of zebra's posts (right around half) were made under a previous account over the last few years, so this number is inaccurate in that they have been merged with his new account. A more accurate number would be around ~15.

** This guy is just a plain spammer, and that's the only reason he ranks so high.

[fingersplints]

I don't think it's narrow minded at all. I think her posts, and her votes have been civvie minded, plus I don't think the kills match Rox at all. So it's many reasons. It seems like just trying to find reasons to suspect her. What posts specifically make you think she might be the SK then?

I deserve to die more

[Matt]

Roxy doesn't have any info on me whatsoever, and if she does, her voting record doesn't reflect this.

To anyone who has seriously took the time to look at my case, thank you. I will be keeping my vote on Mac for the rest of the day (UNLESS I get more votes today and need to save myself), however, if Mac isn't lynched tonight, I will move on the next day because I really don't want my theories to be a distraction if they are wrong.

Several players, including Roxy, who want me to do my own research...obviously you aren't reading between the lines, so I'm not going to try to explain any further. I'm sorry you don't see what I'm saying, that's probably my bad.

Right now Floyd is the baddiest bad of all time but I'm keeping my vote on MacD because I'm convinced he's the SK. If nobody wishes to follow because they can't wrap their head around Sorsha still being able to use her power from the previous night when she was alive, then so be it.

Roxy - Five days in a row, huh? Roxy, you better hope I don't get lynched and instead get NK'd, because otherwise, you are going to look just as foolish as people are calling me.

[Black Rock]

I don't think it's narrow minded at all. I think her posts, and her votes have been civvie minded, plus I don't think the kills match Rox at all. So it's many reasons. It seems like just trying to find reasons to suspect her. What posts specifically make you think she might be the SK then?

I deserve to die more

You are literally making a mountain out of a mole hill. The post was designed to get Roxy in here so I could have a more solid read on her. Instead I have her knight riding in here on her white horse. What should I make of that Splints? Now my post is meaningless for what it was designed to do. I guess I will put a big ? mark beside her and read more up on you.

[Black Rock]

I don't think it's narrow minded at all. I think her posts, and her votes have been civvie minded, plus I don't think the kills match Rox at all. So it's many reasons. It seems like just trying to find reasons to suspect her. What posts specifically make you think she might be the SK then?

I deserve to die more

You are literally making a mountain out of a mole hill. The post was designed to get Roxy in here so I could have a more solid read on her. Instead I have her knight riding in here on her white horse. What should I make of that Splints? Now my post is meaningless for what it was designed to do. I guess I will put a big ? mark beside her and read more up on you.

OMG I suck so bad, I should be killed for being such a loser at completing tasks my great and powerful hosts give me.

[RadicalFuzz]

This is an extremely entertaining way of dealing with low participation.

[Marmot]

Black Rock and fingersplints, you two should just vote now for your top suspect just in case you might miss the vote again.

[Black Rock]

This is an extremely entertaining way of dealing with low participation.

Black Rock and fingersplints, you two should just vote now for your top suspect just in case you might miss the vote again.

I haven't decided yet.

I deserve to die for not completing my punishment.

There, I remembered.

[Ricochet]

Right now Floyd is the baddiest bad of all time but I'm keeping my vote on MacD because I'm convinced he's the SK. If nobody wishes to follow because they can't wrap their head around Sorsha still being able to use her power from the previous night when she was alive, then so be it.

Matt, the last mentions I see from you on this matter is that, basically, Sorsha was able (or allowed?) to push her power (activated on Night 3) into total fruition, whether dead or alive. If her role would have said that she can choose the winner by the end of that Day (or in fact make no such mention of this, thus leaving it to us to interpret things), I would have agreed that she did choose someone and that your angle is worth pursuing, regarding Mac. Given however the subsequent night specification, I would find it implausible and furthermore broken as a game design. Usually every player's role is terminated with his death, except for specific post-death effects (like bomb and such), so I don't get why a Judge-like challenger such as Sorsha would basically get exempt from that. If Night 4 is the moment when it's said that Sorsha would have picked a winner and yet she died before that moment, then it stands to reason she did not get to the point of picking a winner anymore. Her role was terminated and she didn't get to call the winner of her challenge, because she didn't survive to reach that moment.

The night momentum also links well with the fact that the victims have to send their powers twice, during that same Night.

I'll rue this, of course, if you were right and able to see more clearly into this, not to mention if Mac will have been also profiled correctly out of this, but I just don't see how it's possible, except if there's a design glitch.

I still find it eery that MP gave us the "good question" treatment to this inquiry, but I'm sorry, if he allowed Sorsha to finish her power move post-mortem, it's a glitch I can't comprehend, based on what the role says. Then again, maybe he gave us the treatment only so that we look closer at the role card.

Or so that we continue to pick on each other.

Same as it ever was.

[Matt]

I have no interest in lynching Matt F. I am inclined to think he is incorrect about Mac, but I don't think he has malicious intent.

Same. Matt practically always comes out with the most ridiculous conspiracies and follows them until his dying breath, but it doesn't make him bad. If anything I think he does it more when he's a civ.

You're wrong, actually, but I appeciate the support. If I'm Mafia, I still have major pings and still go after people because typically there are two Mafias so I am still able to scumhunt.

Also, as a civvie Bullz, I think you'd be more hesitant to call me as such.

Btw, I saw Moving Pictures' post where he says the order of the kills doesn't matter during the Night post. Knowing this, I am less sure on my theory about Mac.

HOWEVER, and as others have pointed out, considering MP would not give a clear answer on my question, I still think my theory is possible.

Linki - Rico, I hear ya. I understand that position about Sorsha not being able to use her power, however, I'm at a complete loss as to why people are ruling it out completely. I feel it was actually the second part of the power she used on NIGHT 3, so I personally believe she was able to pick a winner.

However, Roxy has said that in her games, even if there is a contest such as this, it would go without a winner if the host of that contest is no longer alive. Then again, I can't reasonably trust a single thing Roxy has said in this game, so hopefully others come out with their perspectives on this.

[Marmot]

Right now Floyd is the baddiest bad of all time but I'm keeping my vote on MacD because I'm convinced he's the SK. If nobody wishes to follow because they can't wrap their head around Sorsha still being able to use her power from the previous night when she was alive, then so be it.

Matt, the last mentions I see from you on this matter is that, basically, Sorsha was able (or allowed?) to push her power (activated on Night 3) into total fruition, whether dead or alive. If her role would have said that she can choose the winner by the end of that Day (or in fact make no such mention of this, thus leaving it to us to interpret things), I would have agreed that she did choose someone and that your angle is worth pursuing, regarding Mac. Given however the subsequent night specification, I would find it implausible and furthermore broken as a game design. Usually every player's role is terminated with his death, except for specific post-death effects (like bomb and such), so I don't get why a Judge-like challenger such as Sorsha would basically get exempt from that. If Night 4 is the moment when it's said that Sorsha would have picked a winner and yet she died before that moment, then it stands to reason she did not get to the point of picking a winner anymore. Her role was terminated and she didn't get to call the winner of her challenge, because she didn't survive to reach that moment.

The night momentum also links well with the fact that the victims have to send their powers twice, during that same Night.

I'll rue this, of course, if you were right and able to see more clearly into this, not to mention if Mac will have been also profiled correctly out of this, but I just don't see how it's possible, except if there's a design glitch.

I still find it eery that MP gave us the "good question" treatment to this inquiry, but I'm sorry, if he allowed Sorsha to finish her power move post-mortem, it's a glitch I can't comprehend, based on what the role says. Then again, maybe he gave us the treatment only so that we look closer at the role card.

Or so that we continue to pick on each other.

Same as it ever was.

MP directed us to read the role. If we follow it letter-by-letter, Sorsha could not have selected a winner on Night 4, period.

[Matt]

To any Syndicateer who has hosted a Mafia game...

If you had a role like Sorsha's in the game, Sorsha picks two players to play her contest on Night 3, Sorsha dies on Day 4.

Would YOU as host allow Sorsha to pick a winner from the power she used Night 3?

I'm just curious to what the over all consensus is. If the majority says "NO", again, after today, I will stop voting for Mac for being the SK

[Black Rock]

I read Splints posts. She came into the game assuming Roxy is civvie because of who was killed night 1. I know Roxy doesn't like to pick on new players but I also know she can be pretty ruthless. If she didn't want to kill new players she would be less likely the SK but Splints doesn't think she could be on the baddie team either?

I still am leaning one way towards Roxy more than the other but I am going to reserve judgement for now. I find it more interesting that she has voted for Matt 5 times in a row.

I am undecided on Matt vs Mac. I'm hoping to see what I perceive to be an honest reaction from Roxy about my theories.

I deserve to die because I am an awful player who should have a better memory regarding punishments.

[Black Rock]

To any Syndicateer who has hosted a Mafia game...

If you had a role like Sorsha's in the game, Sorsha picks two players to play her contest on Night 3, Sorsha dies on Day 4.

Would YOU as host allow Sorsha to pick a winner from the power she used Night 3?

I'm just curious to what the over all consensus is. If the majority says "NO", again, after today, I will stop voting for Mac for being the SK

As a host no. If the player is dead all things die with that player.

I deserve to die for not following through with my punishment.

[Roxy]

Sorry thought I was in a mafia mood today but it turns out I amnot.

BR - what posts of mine specifically say I am a sk? I prob will not be posting much more this cycle.

MF - idgaf if I am foolish or people think I am tbh. I think you all of your cases are distracting from finding actual baddies. I even asked you to back up earlier and not lead lynches based on half built cases or loopy theories. But you won't so I won't change my vote.

[Marmot]

To any Syndicateer who has hosted a Mafia game...

If you had a role like Sorsha's in the game, Sorsha picks two players to play her contest on Night 3, Sorsha dies on Day 4.

Would YOU as host allow Sorsha to pick a winner from the power she used Night 3?

I'm just curious to what the over all consensus is. If the majority says "NO", again, after today, I will stop voting for Mac for being the SK

It depends how the role is laid out.

If their is a condition for the player to meet, and one of the players clearly met that condition, then that player would win. Even if Sorsha were nightkilled Night 3, as long as her action went through to put the challenge forth, then a winner is possible.

If I were to write the role so that not only does Sorsha select the challengers and challenge, but also selects the winner, then no. It is a step-by-step action that not only requires the player to be alive, but to be active to execute. If Sorsha was MIA Night 4, then nobody would win the challenge.



Another example. Say Sorsha was a civ ninja whose role-description was "once in the game, you may select a player to nightkill. If you successfully kill a civilian threat, you may perform another nightkill the following night". If she was lynched the day after nightkilling a member of mafia, I would not allow her to perform another nightkill the next night, even though the ability was a by-product of a previous action. She is dead.

I don't know if this example is comparable, but that is my opinion.

[Marmot]

To any Syndicateer who has hosted a Mafia game...

If you had a role like Sorsha's in the game, Sorsha picks two players to play her contest on Night 3, Sorsha dies on Day 4.

Would YOU as host allow Sorsha to pick a winner from the power she used Night 3?

I'm just curious to what the over all consensus is. If the majority says "NO", again, after today, I will stop voting for Mac for being the SK

As a host no. If the player is dead all things die with that player.

I deserve to die for not following through with my punishment.

Except for the poison?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

MF - idgaf if I am foolish or people think I am tbh. I think you all of your cases are distracting from finding actual baddies. I even asked you to back up earlier and not lead lynches based on half built cases or loopy theories. But you won't so I won't change my vote.

While I don't agree with the criticism of Matt F, I do think Roxy is right that the focus right now might not be in the best place.

I encourage the current SK-relevant discussion to continue, but we should make an effort to ensure this phase does not pass by without thorough mafia hunting too. I can imagine the living mafia are loving this right now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Right now I am most inclined to lynch someone among Diiny, espers, and fingersplints.

[Matt]

Sorry thought I was in a mafia mood today but it turns out I amnot.

BR - what posts of mine specifically say I am a sk? I prob will not be posting much more this cycle.

MF - idgaf if I am foolish or people think I am tbh. I think you all of your cases are distracting from finding actual baddies. I even asked you to back up earlier and not lead lynches based on half built cases or loopy theories. But you won't so I won't change my vote.

So you're willing to lynch me for being a "poor" townie? I don't want to "twist your words", so I'm asking you.

Also, Roxy - Do you believe I am town or scum? I'd like this answered.

Btw, at least I am playing and am constantly in the mood to play the game that I signed up for.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That's a loaded comment Epignosis.

What do you mean?

- Epignosis could be bluffing.
- If he is not, he could be implying that the real Psycho Killer knows who he/she are, and that Epignosis is not he/she.
- He could also be implying that another player knows what Epignosis's role is for whatever reason, and thus cannot be Psycho Killer.
- He could just be saying that he knows he is not Psycho Killer in a roundabout way.

Some of these ideas take the discussion to areas that are OB. Epignosis dropped a lot of implications with a single statement.

~ Yes, he could be bluffing. I think this can be said about just about any post featuring an implied stance in any mafia game ever though.
~ This is the obvious implication, yes.
~ I don't think this is being implied anywhere in Epi's comment.
~ Yes, that also appears to be happening.

Here's my question, MM: Did you make that initial response to Epi for the sake of making a post, specifically a post about the SK? I'm not sure you've made a point here that isn't plainly apparent in his post. You've accused him of nothing, you've made no inferences, you've simply restated his post in numerous different ways which don't really say anything about your perspective of Epi.

[Ricochet]

To any Syndicateer who has hosted a Mafia game...

If you had a role like Sorsha's in the game, Sorsha picks two players to play her contest on Night 3, Sorsha dies on Day 4.

Would YOU as host allow Sorsha to pick a winner from the power she used Night 3?

I'm just curious to what the over all consensus is. If the majority says "NO", again, after today, I will stop voting for Mac for being the SK

I have two answers, as a person who never hosted

1) I would make the Judge pick the winner at the end of the challenge, i.e. the end of the Day. I understand why MP might have tied it with the victims having to send their powers twice (which is a night activity), but overall this is how I'd treat any challenge result. (As a side-note, I'd also consider having a third party judge, to avoid the off-chance that the in-game Judge already has info, deduction, influence or simple bias against one of the victims and decides to give the award preferentially, not based on the quality and fulfilment of the challenge. But that's really just a side-note.)

2) Strictly concerning Found A Job in this game, if it would die on Day 4 and the role would specify that it picks a winner on Night 4, then I would not allow a winner to be picked. Challenge would be over, no winner or losers would come out of it and RIP to the role.

[Matt]

MF - idgaf if I am foolish or people think I am tbh. I think you all of your cases are distracting from finding actual baddies. I even asked you to back up earlier and not lead lynches based on half built cases or loopy theories. But you won't so I won't change my vote.

While I don't agree with the criticism of Matt F, I do think Roxy is right that the focus right now might not be in the best place.

I encourage the current SK-relevant discussion to continue, but we should make an effort to ensure this phase does not pass by without thorough mafia hunting too. I can imagine the living mafia are loving this right now.

What do you make of The Floyd saying he and Strawhenge were rivals?

I haven't given it much attention in thread because of trying to defend my theory, but I'm curious of your opinion.

[Marmot]

That's a loaded comment Epignosis.

What do you mean?

- Epignosis could be bluffing.
- If he is not, he could be implying that the real Psycho Killer knows who he/she are, and that Epignosis is not he/she.
- He could also be implying that another player knows what Epignosis's role is for whatever reason, and thus cannot be Psycho Killer.
- He could just be saying that he knows he is not Psycho Killer in a roundabout way.

Some of these ideas take the discussion to areas that are OB. Epignosis dropped a lot of implications with a single statement.

~ Yes, he could be bluffing. I think this can be said about just about any post featuring an implied stance in any mafia game ever though.
~ This is the obvious implication, yes.
~ I don't think this is being implied anywhere in Epi's comment.
~ Yes, that also appears to be happening.

Here's my question, MM: Did you make that initial response to Epi for the sake of making a post, specifically a post about the SK? I'm not sure you've made a point here that isn't plainly apparent in his post. You've accused him of nothing, you've made no inferences, you've simply restated his post in numerous different ways which don't really say anything about your perspective of Epi.

I had a previous perspective of Epignosis. But now I am wary of him. I am familiar with Epignosis not beating around the bush, and that post he made was one that did. I think I'll ask for more input before I explain more though, because apparently I don't know his history very well.

In your experience with civilian Epignosis, how often do you think he drops subtle hints as opposed to playing a straight shooter?

[Choutas]

Well actually sorry I got carried away. There could be three dead townies tonight and it won't matter if we lynch one of the scum. It's possible that the protector can protect girlfriend is better again and then another one of us gets hit randomly on our own.

But nobody is safe now that SK knows who to hit for a double up kill... and the Mafia can target whoever they like without fear of getting blocked as it's unlikely that at this stage of the game the protector role can protect anyone except Girlfriend is Better if even that.

So... SK hunt is the way to go today tbh.

Who's been trying to pin SK on someone else with a literally impossibly convoluted idea?

Let's start with who has brought up serial killer out of the blue in the game. MattF, anyone else?

Can you explain it with simple words? Your theory is completely unprovable tbh. There are two roles we have no idea what they do marked with question marks. I think it has do with these unknown roles and not by a townie role.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

MF - idgaf if I am foolish or people think I am tbh. I think you all of your cases are distracting from finding actual baddies. I even asked you to back up earlier and not lead lynches based on half built cases or loopy theories. But you won't so I won't change my vote.

While I don't agree with the criticism of Matt F, I do think Roxy is right that the focus right now might not be in the best place.

I encourage the current SK-relevant discussion to continue, but we should make an effort to ensure this phase does not pass by without thorough mafia hunting too. I can imagine the living mafia are loving this right now.

What do you make of The Floyd saying he and Strawhenge were rivals?

I haven't given it much attention in thread because of trying to defend my theory, but I'm curious of your opinion.

My stance for years has always been this:

I don't believe in scumslips.

I don't know what Floyd meant by "rivals", but I doubt he literally meant "I'm mafia and you're town, hahaha."

[Matt]

MF - idgaf if I am foolish or people think I am tbh. I think you all of your cases are distracting from finding actual baddies. I even asked you to back up earlier and not lead lynches based on half built cases or loopy theories. But you won't so I won't change my vote.

While I don't agree with the criticism of Matt F, I do think Roxy is right that the focus right now might not be in the best place.

I encourage the current SK-relevant discussion to continue, but we should make an effort to ensure this phase does not pass by without thorough mafia hunting too. I can imagine the living mafia are loving this right now.

What do you make of The Floyd saying he and Strawhenge were rivals?

I haven't given it much attention in thread because of trying to defend my theory, but I'm curious of your opinion.

My stance for years has always been this:

I don't believe in scumslips.

I don't know what Floyd meant by "rivals", but I doubt he literally meant "I'm mafia and you're town, hahaha."

Though it could be seen as a scumslip, it's quite possible Floyd has a role checking power, and knows Straw is scum.

I highly doubt that to be the case, btw, but I'm just saying it doesn't necessarily need to be a scumslip.

Floyd - Can you please outline why you are voting to lynch me today?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I had a previous perspective of Epignosis. But now I am wary of him. I am familiar with Epignosis not beating around the bush, and that post he made was one that did. I think I'll ask for more input before I explain more though, because apparently I don't know his history very well.

In your experience with civilian Epignosis, how often do you think he drops subtle hints as opposed to playing a straight shooter?

That's a pretty good explanation actually. You're right that Epi employed indirect language about something that could probably be stated plainly. I don't have enough history playing with him to be a reliable judge of his metas between alignments, but yes he has generally seemed to be a rather frank player so far. I feel he has been more subdued in general for most of the game, and that's something FZ didn't like as early as Day 1.

I think this is a point that can be better addressed by people who've played with him longer than I have.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Though it could be seen as a scumslip, it's quite possible Floyd has a role checking power, and knows Straw is scum.

I highly doubt that to be the case, btw, but I'm just saying it doesn't necessarily need to be a scumslip.

Floyd - Can you please outline why you are voting to lynch me today?

True enough. I'd expect Floyd's vote to be planted on Strawhenge right now though if that were the case.

[Matt]

Though it could be seen as a scumslip, it's quite possible Floyd has a role checking power, and knows Straw is scum.

I highly doubt that to be the case, btw, but I'm just saying it doesn't necessarily need to be a scumslip.

Floyd - Can you please outline why you are voting to lynch me today?

True enough. I'd expect Floyd's vote to be planted on Strawhenge right now though if that were the case.

True dat.

Floyd - How are you and Strawhenge "rivals"? Again, why have you voted for me today?

[Marmot]

MF - idgaf if I am foolish or people think I am tbh. I think you all of your cases are distracting from finding actual baddies. I even asked you to back up earlier and not lead lynches based on half built cases or loopy theories. But you won't so I won't change my vote.

While I don't agree with the criticism of Matt F, I do think Roxy is right that the focus right now might not be in the best place.

I encourage the current SK-relevant discussion to continue, but we should make an effort to ensure this phase does not pass by without thorough mafia hunting too. I can imagine the living mafia are loving this right now.

What do you make of The Floyd saying he and Strawhenge were rivals?

I haven't given it much attention in thread because of trying to defend my theory, but I'm curious of your opinion.

My stance for years has always been this:

I don't believe in scumslips.

I don't know what Floyd meant by "rivals", but I doubt he literally meant "I'm mafia and you're town, hahaha."

Scumslips do exist.

[Ricochet]

Can you explain it with simple words? Your theory is completely unprovable tbh. There are two roles we have no idea what they do marked with question marks. I think it has do with these unknown roles and not by a townie role.

If by "his theory" you mean Girlfriend/Place theory, why is it "completely unprovable"? So far we've found out the only thing that would make it unlikely is if the SK was blocked from killing - which he obviously wasn't.

Plus, he's also right that, double-targetting aside (meaning the SK can't target the same player again on N5), the SK could take advantage of his role.

Why is your "something must be happening behind the [Secrets] roles" more "provable" than Mac's theory?

[Choutas]

In this thread right now we have Matt trying to convince people that either;

a) a dead player was able to cast an action after they died
b) a player was able to select a winner before they completed their job

Dude. You are killing me. I have never met anybody who tunnels so bad.

lol not even me? I used to be pretty hard-headed.

[Choutas]

In this thread right now we have Matt trying to convince people that either;

a) a dead player was able to cast an action after they died
b) a player was able to select a winner before they completed their job

Dude. You are killing me. I have never met anybody who tunnels so bad.

I think your reaction to all of this says it all. If it was really as wild and idiotic as you'd like people to believe, I think you would've actually laughed it off as such. But ever since you claimed that you didn't give a f*ck about this theory and that you'd go back to lurking, you've doen a complete 180, accusing me of being the SK, and then making a post attempting to read every single player to find the SK, etc etc. I don't think you would've gone to these great lengths if you didn't think my case had merit...which it does.

Sorsha used her job power on Night 3, and therefore, had the ability to pick a winner from the power she used on NIGHT 3 when she was alive. IMO

This post is making a lot of sense tbh. I have no idea which roles did what but Mac's reaction was horrible and to think he was my most trusted townie before going back and actually read the last seven 10 pages. Mac has been hitting wildly. Like a boxer who has lost the fight, he's in the last round, the winner is playing defensively and Mac is swingin' wildly missing about half of his punches. Seriously Mac what the hell.

[RadicalFuzz]

Sorsha's role card says that she decides the winner Night 4, that it requires some form of input from her on Night 4. I find it extremely unlikely that hosts would allow Sorsha to decide the winner of Night 4 post-mortem and then come into the thread and leave the question at best intentionally vague. I find that scenario would be very strange and more than likely not the case.

Also, J3, I want to engage in a debate with you later tonight about something. Going out for a few hours now, but just a heads up for later.

There's a Little Mac joke in there somewhere but I'm too lazy to find it. Choutas I disagree with your assessment of Mac during Matt F's push for him at the beginning of the day. I'll explain why when I return.