[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[Ricochet]

On RYM, the concept of "infodumping" doesn't exist (until #88 when I brought it from here) because revealing role-related information is considered the norm and not some kind of controversial behavior. That's why I think guys like seaside, Choutas, and Strawhenge all struggled mightily with that rule in this game -- it's foreign to RYMers and they've never been faced with that particular variable.

None of the examples I mentioned, save for perhaps Golden in here, were infodumps. I guess they could be technically called rolehints, that said roles later would have used, especially under lynch pressure, to try to make the players figure it out and avoid the mislynch.

[Diiny]

Can someone link the voting histories?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Can someone link the voting histories?

MM did a lot of work in that arena. In case you're not aware of the poll results thread though, Here.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

MM's record of votes through Day 9

[Diiny]

How. Long. Has. This. Fucking. Thread. Existed.

[Ricochet]

To be fair Rico, I don't think Diiny being Mac's counterwagon on Day 6 precludes him from being mafia-aligned. I do think there is other evidence to suggest that though.

Yes, the reveal that only MacBaddie voted on that counterwagon, despite requesting it in the open, makes me wonder just a bit, but does Mac's attitude tell you he was resigned to Diiny, as teamie, becoming his counterwagon, or indifferent, knowing Diiny is not his teammate?

Mac openly resisted Diiny as the counterwagon on Day 6 (he literally told motel room he wanted it to be DrWilgy). I later interpreted this as a WIFOMburger in Diiny's favor and not in Doc's favor. It's possible I had it backwards.

Yeah, but we don't know Wilgy's flip, so it could have still been an attempt, as you've said, to push for an unlikely Wilgy (as teammate) lynch, only to not leave breadcrumbs afterwards, by sounding like he was truly invested in Wilgy's lynch and instead WIperFOoM all over the place.

I did a summary of Mac's interactions with Wilgy and Diiny, before end of N12 (with links to the original reads, as well). Maybe check it out and give your impression on who looks more likely as Mac's teammate in that whole affair (or in general).

[Ricochet]

How. Long. Has. This. Fucking. Thread. Existed.

A month and four days and counting.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In my interactive reviews I thought Wilgy looked a lot worse than Diiny, I agree. I think he's a better SK candidate than mafia right now. I only meant to convey that I don't think his being the Day 6 counterwagon is conclusive evidence.

[Diiny]

I haven't got it in me to case Rico/Russ tonight but I still can't tear myself away from the thread. If you've any actually defensible shit to fling at me, now's the time.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I haven't got it in me to case Rico/Russ tonight but I still can't tear myself away from the thread. If you've any actually defensible shit to fling at me, now's the time.

I readily grant that the case against you is largely process of elimination right now. That's not something you can defend against -- and I'm sorry for that. The best thing you can do for yourself right now if you're town is convince me and others that someone else is what you're accused of being.

[Ricochet]

With due apologies, I must go to bed right now.

[Diiny]

I haven't got it in me to case Rico/Russ tonight but I still can't tear myself away from the thread. If you've any actually defensible shit to fling at me, now's the time.

I readily grant that the case against you is largely process of elimination right now. That's not something you can defend against -- and I'm sorry for that. The best thing you can do for yourself right now if you're town is convince me and others that someone else is what you're accused of being.

This is why I'm waiting to case Rico and Russ, I know that town's chances are based on me doing this to the best of my ability.

[Diiny]

Although, J, why do you suspect I'm SK over Rico/russ? Why do you inherantly trust them above me? I don't see why you don't case us all.

[Marmot]

If The Great Curve is out there reading this, I suggest they use their one-time power today.

Also, I think someone claimed he was a terrorist, claimed to avert a catastrophe.

Wert zebra being Pulled Up, there is this post.

[Marmot]

^^^and this post came on Night 3, just after the lynch that seaside presumable "looked" at.

[Marmot]

I haven't got it in me to case Rico/Russ tonight but I still can't tear myself away from the thread. If you've any actually defensible shit to fling at me, now's the time.

I readily grant that the case against you is largely process of elimination right now. That's not something you can defend against -- and I'm sorry for that. The best thing you can do for yourself right now if you're town is convince me and others that someone else is what you're accused of being.

This is why I'm waiting to case Rico and Russ, I know that town's chances are based on me doing this to the best of my ability.

If Ricochet offers a case on you being SK, and you pick it apart and make a solid defense, where does that leave us?

This is a crucial situation that requires proaction. If you are not the SK (or mafia), defending yourself will not get either of them lynched.

[Diiny]

I mean I'm waiting to do it because I don't want to fuck it up and I want to do it properly and not in bed at 2am; I understand what you mean.

[Marmot]

I mean I'm waiting to do it because I don't want to fuck it up and I want to do it properly and not in bed at 2am; I understand what you mean.

Gotcha.

This game has actually been going on since September 30th, if we include Day 0.

[Tangrowth]

This game has actually been going on since September 30th, if we include Day 0.

Shouldn't this be in pedantic pink?

[Marmot]

This game has actually been going on since September 30th, if we include Day 0.

Shouldn't this be in pedantic pink?

If it was, then you'd be unable to respond to it. :P Actually that's not true.

[Marmot]

Also, I'm not pleased about the prospect of Russtifinko being mafia. He was my first suspect.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Although, J, why do you suspect I'm SK over Rico/russ? Why do you inherantly trust them above me? I don't see why you don't case us all.

Night 5.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

HOSTS - If the Mafia or Serial Killer is prevented from making a kill for whatever reason, do you still show their kill attempt in the Night Post? If the Mafia or Serial Killer simply don't make an attempt, do you completely ignore them in the Night Post?

Thank you

Yes to both questions.

[Ricochet]

If The Great Curve is out there reading this, I suggest they use their one-time power today.

Also, I think someone claimed he was a terrorist, claimed to avert a catastrophe.

Wert zebra being Pulled Up, there is this post.

^^^and this post came on Night 3, just after the lynch that seaside presumable "looked" at.

He could have instinctively asked for Great Curve to check what might happened after a Day phase in which Golden won a lynch with 6 votes, yet bea got killed with no votes. ... although it's a bit murky to understand why zebra would request vote manipulations to be checked, when what happened was more a thing of roles manipulation.

Plus, for the umpteenth time, I don't understand why seaside would suspect seeing anything on JJJ or Diiny, if one of them is supposed to be Blind and there were no drugs involved (because Night 2 was skipped). If I would have had that role (the song is probably my favorite TH one) and had checked Day 3 and saw that there was one vote less (Blind) and/or one vote more (Pulled Up), both not fitting a baddie's role (Drugs giving +2), I would be pretty bad at my role to leave breadcrumbs on this being suspicious. Nothing against seaside, but I think we're making stuff out of a legacy that he didn't really leave. Or, if he did, it's not a good one.

Also, after a good night's sleep, I realized my "Pulled Up could have had +1 on LC D2" logic was 3am shit tier, because Pulled Up only gets empowered by non-civ lynches, not by civ mislynches.

So that leaves us with two explanations: Blind is Diiny and there was no interference with the main wagons. JJJ (or Russ? ) is Blind and their vote fortunately stuck on LC. Put this in a vacuum and, yeah, it's a 50-50 between Diiny and JJJ. But add in some other cues for Diiny being bad (unlikelihood of him being mafia, his absence), compared to JJJ pretty much being Satan incarnate if he's bad, plus some other factors I can (questioning JJJ to good result) or can't be specific about, and I'm leaning Diiny is bad, JJJ is Blind.

[a2thezebra]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm bothered that if there's a 2 vs 1 LyLo, the Blind role could turn this entire month long immense mafia game into a roll of the dice. There's nothing that can be done though I don't think.

[Ricochet]

We can't afford to eliminate anymore civs. Blind's vote on lylo will be 50-50 and, yes, it's true that, if the lylo will be 2 civs - 1 baddie, Blind's vote along with the other civ, should they vote the baddie, will be a dice roll. I have in mind a variant that might work slightly better for the civs, but I'd rather not say it out loud, where baddie ears could hear it.

[Ricochet]

Also, I just had a dream in which zebra, Choutas and MacBaddie were posting without their dead color on and interfering with the endgame. Thing is, I wasn't even at home in my dream, I was at the countryside. Now where did I put those meds...

[a2thezebra]

Also, I just had a dream in which zebra, Choutas and MacBaddie were posting without their dead color on and interfering with the endgame. Thing is, I wasn't even at home in my dream, I was at the countryside. Now where did I put those meds...

[Golden]

Hey, MovingPictures, Rico's dream was clearly prophetic and it means you should host-rezz lots of people. Including me, of course. Not only zebra, choutas and mac.

[Ricochet]

^Aren't you still in limbo, trying to find Mal?

*bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*



Forget Star Wars Episode VII.

Coming in a mafia forum near you, Summer 2016.

Ish.

[Ricochet]

I wonder if I'll make it to 1k myself.

[Choutas]

Let's not forget the theme.

[Tangrowth]

Also, I just had a dream in which zebra, Choutas and MacBaddie were posting without their dead color on and interfering with the endgame. Thing is, I wasn't even at home in my dream, I was at the countryside. Now where did I put those meds...

I dream about mafia games way more often than I should, so I can relate.

[Ricochet]

Let's not forget the theme.

MGM ew

[Tangrowth]

I thought the 8-bit version of TMbtP I used for Wilgy's death was fun.

[Marmot]

I think you need more host posts about buildings and food.

[Tangrowth]

I think you need more host posts about buildings and food.

I am currently located in a building.

[Marmot]

I think you need more host posts about buildings and food.

I am currently located in a building.

I am currently located with food.

[Marmot]

If The Great Curve is out there reading this, I suggest they use their one-time power today.

Also, I think someone claimed he was a terrorist, claimed to avert a catastrophe.

Wert zebra being Pulled Up, there is this post.

^^^and this post came on Night 3, just after the lynch that seaside presumable "looked" at.

He could have instinctively asked for Great Curve to check what might happened after a Day phase in which Golden won a lynch with 6 votes, yet bea got killed with no votes. ... although it's a bit murky to understand why zebra would request vote manipulations to be checked, when what happened was more a thing of roles manipulation.

Plus, for the umpteenth time, I don't understand why seaside would suspect seeing anything on JJJ or Diiny, if one of them is supposed to be Blind and there were no drugs involved (because Night 2 was skipped). If I would have had that role (the song is probably my favorite TH one) and had checked Day 3 and saw that there was one vote less (Blind) and/or one vote more (Pulled Up), both not fitting a baddie's role (Drugs giving +2), I would be pretty bad at my role to leave breadcrumbs on this being suspicious. Nothing against seaside, but I think we're making stuff out of a legacy that he didn't really leave. Or, if he did, it's not a good one.

Jay mentioned this before, and I agree with him (especially since he was the one who suggested it). Seaside checked the lynch, saw a number on you that was not 6 (so probably less than 6), and rather than assume all of the role possibilities, he assumed bad news.

On the other hand, Blind's vote should not have been randomized at that point, right? By my understanding, Blind's "range" should have been 0 on that day.

Also, after a good night's sleep, I realized my "Pulled Up could have had +1 on LC D2" logic was 3am shit tier, because Pulled Up only gets empowered by non-civ lynches, not by civ mislynches.

So that leaves us with two explanations: Blind is Diiny and there was no interference with the main wagons. JJJ (or Russ? ) is Blind and their vote fortunately stuck on LC. Put this in a vacuum and, yeah, it's a 50-50 between Diiny and JJJ. But add in some other cues for Diiny being bad (unlikelihood of him being mafia, his absence), compared to JJJ pretty much being Satan incarnate if he's bad, plus some other factors I can (questioning JJJ to good result) or can't be specific about, and I'm leaning Diiny is bad, JJJ is Blind.

I would agree with this in general though.

[Marmot]

EBWOP:

Plus, for the umpteenth time, I don't understand why seaside would suspect seeing anything on JJJ or Diiny, if one of them is supposed to be Blind and there were no drugs involved (because Night 2 was skipped). If I would have had that role (the song is probably my favorite TH one) and had checked Day 3 and saw that there was one vote less (Blind) and/or one vote more (Pulled Up), both not fitting a baddie's role (Drugs giving +2), I would be pretty bad at my role to leave breadcrumbs on this being suspicious. Nothing against seaside, but I think we're making stuff out of a legacy that he didn't really leave. Or, if he did, it's not a good one.

Jay mentioned this before, and I agree with him (especially since he was the one who suggested it). Seaside checked the lynch, saw a number on you that was not 6 (so probably less than 6), and rather than assume all of the role possibilities, he assumed bad news.

On the other hand, Blind's vote should not have been randomized at that point, right? By my understanding, Blind's "range" should have been 0 on that day.

Also, after a good night's sleep, I realized my "Pulled Up could have had +1 on LC D2" logic was 3am shit tier, because Pulled Up only gets empowered by non-civ lynches, not by civ mislynches.

So that leaves us with two explanations: Blind is Diiny and there was no interference with the main wagons. JJJ (or Russ? ) is Blind and their vote fortunately stuck on LC. Put this in a vacuum and, yeah, it's a 50-50 between Diiny and JJJ. But add in some other cues for Diiny being bad (unlikelihood of him being mafia, his absence), compared to JJJ pretty much being Satan incarnate if he's bad, plus some other factors I can (questioning JJJ to good result) or can't be specific about, and I'm leaning Diiny is bad, JJJ is Blind.

I would agree with this in general though.

[Sloonei]

^Aren't you still in limbo, trying to find Mal?

*bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*



Forget Star Wars Episode VII.

Coming in a mafia forum near you, Summer 2016.

Ish.

It came Winter of 2015, actually.

[Ricochet]

Jay mentioned this before, and I agree with him (especially since he was the one who suggested it). Seaside checked the lynch, saw a number on you that was not 6 (so probably less than 6), and rather than assume all of the role possibilities, he assumed bad news.

On the other hand, Blind's vote should not have been randomized at that point, right? By my understanding, Blind's "range" should have been 0 on that day.

This is also true. Further evidence of not believing seaside really checked that Day or saw something on Jay and/or Diiny.

[Ricochet]

It came Winter of 2015, actually.

JJJ told me about that.

[Marmot]

Jay mentioned this before, and I agree with him (especially since he was the one who suggested it). Seaside checked the lynch, saw a number on you that was not 6 (so probably less than 6), and rather than assume all of the role possibilities, he assumed bad news.

On the other hand, Blind's vote should not have been randomized at that point, right? By my understanding, Blind's "range" should have been 0 on that day.

This is also true. Further evidence of not believing seaside really checked that Day or saw something on Jay and/or Diiny.

If Pulled Up and Blind's votes were both there, Golden still could have won the tie, right?

[Ricochet]

Jay mentioned this before, and I agree with him (especially since he was the one who suggested it). Seaside checked the lynch, saw a number on you that was not 6 (so probably less than 6), and rather than assume all of the role possibilities, he assumed bad news.

On the other hand, Blind's vote should not have been randomized at that point, right? By my understanding, Blind's "range" should have been 0 on that day.

This is also true. Further evidence of not believing seaside really checked that Day or saw something on Jay and/or Diiny.

If Pulled Up and Blind's votes were both there, Golden still could have won the tie, right?

What tie?

Golden won as top wagon. Blind being on me and misfiring would have just dropped me lower by one vote.

If Pulled Up voted Golden (say... b24) then he further pushed Golden into getting lynched. If Pulled Up didn't vote on either wagons (say... Zebra or Matt), it didn't change anything.

[Marmot]

What tie?

Golden won as top wagon. Blind being on me and misfiring would have just dropped me lower by one vote.

If Pulled Up voted Golden (say... b24) then he further pushed Golden into getting lynched. If Pulled Up didn't vote on either wagons (say... Zebra or Matt), it didn't change anything.

As I just pointed out, Blind couldn't have misfired on Day 3. On Day 1, a civilian was lynched, so his range went up to +1. On Day 2, mafia was lynched, so his range would go back down to 0.

So on Day 3, his vote would have been accurate.

[Ricochet]

What tie?

Golden won as top wagon. Blind being on me and misfiring would have just dropped me lower by one vote.

If Pulled Up voted Golden (say... b24) then he further pushed Golden into getting lynched. If Pulled Up didn't vote on either wagons (say... Zebra or Matt), it didn't change anything.

As I just pointed out, Blind couldn't have misfired on Day 3. On Day 1, a civilian was lynched, so his range went up to +1. On Day 2, mafia was lynched, so his range would go back down to 0.

So on Day 3, his vote would have been accurate.

Derp.

It still wasn't a tie.

[DrWilgy]

I thought the 8-bit version of TMbtP I used for Wilgy's death was fun.

Indeed! I enjoyed it so much I started working on this:

and have been trying to get it adjusted to the beat of the song.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Going to employ the method I mentioned a while ago for SK-hunting -- checking interactions with his victims to see what I come up with.