Mass Effect Mafia (END)

[Tangrowth]

I'm voting for Bob, which I feel extra good about because MP trusts him, and MP is almost always bad, and when he's not bad, he's wrong.

I hope you're not trying to build a bridge with that logic.

[Tangrowth]

Llama looks about how I expected him to irl. Make of that what you will.


@MP

Given my previous post, do you still read Bob as town?


Don't really like LLama's vote on Bob but the one time he was town with me in a game, he was lynched Day One as the cop. Actually thought his mafia performance in Blue vs Red was more my idea of what a townie looks like so But I don't like follow up votes behind votes with unstated reasoning, especially on a player he hasn't played with. I don't think Llama thinks Bob is scum and two votes is not a opportunistic train. Considering the number of players who haven't talked and the amount Bob has, I'm not sure what the purpose of Llama's vote is.

@Wigly

Lots of times we go no lynch on Day One on the Realms. Hate it. But we don't generally have Day Zero and it shows in the Day One results. It's a fair question from GFish.

I appreciate your meta commentary regarding Bob. I generally feel mixed about meta; it is often misunderstood and misapplied by players. Meta can be more of a limitation and blind spot than an effective way to read someone, but I also think it can have its merits, especially alongside other information by which to read someone (be it tone-based interpretation of in-game posts, voting record, whatever).

Your commentary does make me question the strength of my read, which was pretty minor to begin with, but I still personally assess Bob's demeanor in this game to be genuine, so I still feel good enough about him for a would-not-lynch today read I'd say.

[colonialbob]

Wow, I was expecting to have more to catch up on than that. Let's get this party started.

I have one town read so far.

Is it me?

And we have a vote!

What inspired this vote?

Covered later:

I voted for somebody who apparently read enough to see MP had a town read but not enough to see who it was. Also, I prefer to let the votes fly, and there weren't any yet. Now we have some. I think that's a good thing, even if two of them are currently on me.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Meta!

Adam is cool as a cucumber. He does not crack. Unafraid of going against the grain. Sometimes not as active as I would hope. Depends on things irl. Generally doesn't lead lynches but gets conversation going early. Clutch late game.

Nifty is a nice guy. Gets a bit flustered when under suspicion (only as a townie?) especially when people scum read him based on disagreements like "Player X would only do that if they were mafia" or "Your target is super scummy, Nifty" and he doesn't think so. Can't trust me early. Expects me to not trust him. Traditionally an early game coaster (on reads, not posting) he's been really getting into things early, lately. Better than he thinks he is.

See previous post about Bob. He's a lynch leader and probably has the most Syndicatey play style besides me and Silver.

Dom I've played with once. Kinda quiet. Similar to Nifty, can get fluster over disagreements. More likely to turn disagreements into scum reads.

DrWigly is jokey. Haven't watched him pull off a strong play or a big mistake so idk what I can say that would be helpful beyond "fluff/silliness=/=scum Wigly."

Dizzy is basically ABF if ABF was good at mafia and didn't disappear for full day phases on occasion.

Epi is my arrogance/confidence and desire to meta read stuff only he's apparently good at it. Kinda grumpy. Maybe a better comparison would be Rokk when he isn't having fun. Smart cookie, though. Doesn't crack even in really bad situations. Soft spot for Llama.

Fred is known by most of us.

GFish is smart and thinks outside the box. Don't read him good or bad based on his "stupid questions." He's going somewhere with them. Or he just hasn't ruled the idea out as stupid yet. Will lead lynches early. Soft/hard spot for IR.

IR is another lynch leader. Gets a bit more heated at times than the other players in his weight class. Not as much as Silver, though. Smart with night actions. Soft/hard spot for GFish.

LC is very chill. Thinking what I'm thinking pretty often. I'm terrible at reading him. Soft spot for Epi. Will probably seem fluffy for a day or two but don't worry about that.

MP is sweet as pie. Suuuuper clutch late game when he puts the time in. Haven't actually played an early game with him iirc.

Nutella's style didn't really stand out to me or rub anyone the wrong way in the one game we played together in. He was supertown and then he died.

Silver is known to most of us.

Spirityo I don't have a good bead on. Watched him get easy lynched as town, replace in and get easy lynched as mafia. On the quiet side. Newish to the site?

SVS is nice and used to have a badger avatar. Don't have a strong understanding of her meta.

Llama is Llama. I guess that's not helpful. You'll see. I don't get him anyway.

Tony is relatively new to the Realms. Great performances in one night setups. Doesn't tend to lead lynches. Has impressed me more as scum than as town. So if I think he's town, he's fooled me and if I think he's scum, I'm tunneling.

Jack, your meta assessments of the players in the game is cool, but what purpose did you hope to accomplish by posting all of this stuff?

And this is probably going to sound like a silly question, but what did you mean by me being suuuuuuuper clutch?

[Tangrowth]

Wow, I was expecting to have more to catch up on than that. Let's get this party started.

I have one town read so far.

Is it me?

And we have a vote!

What inspired this vote?

Covered later:

I voted for somebody who apparently read enough to see MP had a town read but not enough to see who it was. Also, I prefer to let the votes fly, and there weren't any yet. Now we have some. I think that's a good thing, even if two of them are currently on me.

Oh yes, I just read that, so it made my question pointless. Oh well. Thanks for answering anyway.

Just so you all know, I sometimes wait to post until I'm done catching up, but these days I generally prefer to respond to things in real time as I catch up. It's preferred personally because otherwise I may forget about something I want to say, and I feel responding in real time helps me better sort out my responses and thoughts on posts and players in real time. I also found in the past that people won't read gigantic wall of text posts that I make.

[Tangrowth]

Bob, since you're here, let's talk. What are your current reads and why? Literally any reads you have, even if very slight.

[Tangrowth]

How I truly feel is I have no idea because it's day 1. I tend to start with a handful of gut civ reads, but they are loose and subject to change. I suppose you're another one, as is Dizzy (though apparently Dizzy just won as mafia in Currents so I'm a little leery of my instinct to trust them)

Hey, that's how I play too.

I think it's much easier to organically develop town reads early on in games than mafia reads. I think you should roll with whatever feels most comfortable.

I dig nutella's openness in discussing her own uncertainty yet nonetheless throwing out some believable reads.

I'd add nutella to my "don't lynch today" town read list.

[Tangrowth]

How I truly feel is I have no idea because it's day 1. I tend to start with a handful of gut civ reads, but they are loose and subject to change. I suppose you're another one, as is Dizzy (though apparently Dizzy just won as mafia in Currents so I'm a little leery of my instinct to trust them)

Oh, well I think you are pretty cool too! ~<3

@Wigly

Lots of times we go no lynch on Day One on the Realms. Hate it. But we don't generally have Day Zero and it shows in the Day One results. It's a fair question from GFish.

Omoshiroi

Llama has MP done anything this game that indicates that he is bad? Are you bad?

I'd like for the players that have claimed they see someone as civvy to answer this - Would you feel bad if they died tonight?

I'm going to go to sleep now and dream, and when I wake up, everything's gonna be fine. I'll wake up in a better place, in a better time.

I'm now feeling good about Wilgy too. I admit I generally can't read this guy, but I like that he's poking and prodding people. It all reads as organic and trying to start conversation.

[Tangrowth]

Hey there everyone. Does this game involve all the ME games or only the latest one?

Why, is your role from the latest one?

How familiar are you with the games? I am 100% unfamiliar.

I have no idea if my role is from the latest one or not. I am also 100% unfamiliar. Well 95%, cause I know it has something to do with space, and the main person is called Shepard.

And you do know there are multiple games, and know enough about it to ask this question.

Not sure why this would be suspicious, but it does get my attention. Only thing so far, really.

MP, have you played at the HRC forum?

why is this attention worthy? do you play mass effect?

I'm a bit confused why you chose these questions as your two to ask, Dom.

First, do you believe S~V~S's observation/question was out of meta for her or unreasonable in some way?

Second, why would you ask S~V~S if she plays Mass Effect?

I don't understand the purpose of these questions towards developing a read on S~V~S. Consider me very slightly tentatively suspicious of Dom.

[Tangrowth]

Llama has MP done anything this game that indicates that he is bad? Are you bad?

MP is always bad. He just has that sort of luck with Random.org. No, I'm not bad. In fact, my first post of this game was to point that out.

I haven't actually rolled a bad role in ages now. I'm on a long stretch of town roles these days. I'm loving it.

[Jackofhearts2005]

That said, I, like S~V~S, love the idea of a Freddy role. Putting fear into players is something I have had some wonderful success with. Come play one of my games with The Hunger as a role.

One of my favorite wins was as a serial killer who couldn't kill two specific townies and could win as long as those two townies were the only two players. I successfully claimed as a Freddy and just targeted one of the townies I couldn't kill every time everybody posted. It was glorious when I won.

[Tangrowth]

I put little stock in what Llama is saying so far. I'd assert that he's playing more with preconceived and somewhat jokey notions of how he feels about everyone rather than making observations about players specifically in this game.

If I didn't know Llama as well as I already do, I might find this slightly suspicious. Since I know Llama pretty well, I don't. In fact, I think it displays that Llama doesn't really care what anyone thinks about him this game.

A little meta note I've noticed about Llama: Bad Llama tries harder, especially early on in the game, to baddie hunt and provide insightful in-game commentary. Good Llama plays more fast and loose, because he has no pretense of "being town" to uphold.

GTH I'd call Llama a town read, but this is my weakest read of my four town reads. I'd like Llama to provide some serious substantive reads ASAP.

[Tangrowth]

I think I'm feeling good about S~V~S as well. I like her activity and her willingness to get involved in discussions. I'd like to see more investment from her though.

[Tangrowth]

No voting Day 0, correct?

I haven't even read the rules yet. I can access the site from work and I'll have plenty of downtime Monday.

Can we vote no lynch?

Why in the world would we want to vote no lynch?

I'm asking, not suggesting.

My question still stands.

[Tangrowth]

Bob is by my estimation the best HCRealms player who isn't me. He's great at strategic analysis. I totally expected his first posts to be clarifying rules/tricky roles and especially meta/Syndicate strategy. That is outside his alignment and is step one to playing this game from his (and my) standpoint. You have to understand the whole picture before you can play well. In no universe does Bob ignore this and in no universe is he scared to engage the Syndicate players in this type of discussion.

The only thing that Bob has done that is potentially alignment indicative is voting for Dizzy. Bob, can you explain your vote?

I don't like this post, which looks like cozying up to Bob.

Also, he didn't compliment me.

Also, I'm not as good as bob either.

I don't find "cozying" or buddying to be a remotely accurate scum tell 99% of the time.

Walk me through a reality in which mafia JOH has an incentive to make the above commentary and town JOH doesn't.

[Tangrowth]

Is there a way to make nested replies more readable? Should I change the theme I guess?

There is a spoiler tag you can use, as follows:

Spoiler: show

Is there a way to make nested replies more readable? Should I change the theme I guess?

Perhaps that'll help. I like using it.

[malakim2099]

The role is called a Freddy (a term we created on the realms). A Freddy can either kill a non-poster from the prior phase or one of the lowest overall posters.

I think it came from a Friday the 13th game or something like that. It kills sleeping players.

In the realms, we typically consider it a mafia strategy to lynch an inactive player because it makes mafia types appear to be active and scum hunting, and helps them eliminate a town member using the lynch. I prefer to lynch low posters over inactive posters though, as many a scum lurk with low posts.

It actually came from CarlosMucha's Horror Movie Mafia on HCRealms, WAAAAAAAAY back in the day.

I'll let the native players here marvel at how insane we were back then. Compared to how insane we are now.

And I'm still getting used to this interface. Fortunately, I'm the co-mod so I can get away with this.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

So is this typically a "vote early vote often" kinda place or a "wait till you see the whites of their eyes" kinda place? We at the Realms have just started to dip our toes into the waters of plurality voting, so seeing how another site does things would be welcome.

Trying to figure out how we do things is suspicious. A good civilian would just leap in with both feet. You seem eager to please, or should I say EAGER TO MURDER?

Can we keep this one?

I voted for somebody who apparently read enough to see MP had a town read but not enough to see who it was. Also, I prefer to let the votes fly, and there weren't any yet. Now we have some. I think that's a good thing, even if two of them are currently on me.

If you prefer the votes to fly, why didn't you just do that? Well, I guess you did eventually. Could you give some background for this post:

So is this typically a "vote early vote often" kinda place or a "wait till you see the whites of their eyes" kinda place? We at the Realms have just started to dip our toes into the waters of plurality voting, so seeing how another site does things would be welcome.

What is plurality voting - that you can change your vote? Can someone give a cliff notes of the different cultures at work here? I'm really not from Cindy Kate or HCR. The true unicorn.

Llama has MP done anything this game that indicates that he is bad? Are you bad?

MP is always bad. He just has that sort of luck with Random.org. No, I'm not bad. In fact, my first post of this game was to point that out.

Aha! If we're anything alike, and judging from my background photo on my phone, which is a llama, we are - then calling myself town was exactly my first post in the game that just ended where I was scum. Dun dun DUUUUN! Would still never vote you, because we're friends, whether you like it or not.


@Jack - First of all - how dare you compare me with anyone!? I'm the unicorn of mafia. The pickle in the brownie. Who's ABF though? Did you mention the same thing last game, or did I create a copy memory of this?

---

There is a surprising lack of postage, and even more so, votage! And voltage for that matter.

People that has posted and I remember stuff from that gives me any type of feeling is Bob, Jack, Nut, LC and MP.
MP's clearing of Bob is a bit huh. I agree with Nut on that.
I don't feel any particular reason to trust either Bob or MP.
Jack has been helpful, but probably not alignment indicative. GTH town.
Nut and LC I both soul read as town.
I can give reasoning for the Nut read, and it's basically her having a gut read on me as town. Sure, scum can buddy and yadda yadda, but I don't see a reason for her to do this as scum. She just played a game with me when she town read me and I was scum. She could just not comment on it and justify that. So I think the feeling is real.
LC is a tone read.

There are SO many players I don't remember and probably a lot that haven't posted either?

Also, shouldn't MP have had like 50 posts by now?

Would literally lynch anyone but Nut, LC, Jack and Llama right now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hey Dizzy, way to puke some reads out. What does "soul read" mean, like a tone-based read? If so, can you point me to a particular post or posts by nutella and LC that inspired your perspective?

[CaptainNifty]

Oh, also like gfish I often chain post.

I'm a teacher, so I'll read, then start posting, then teach, then finish a post, repeat. So it could come in bursts or could be long stretches of silence.

[Tangrowth]

No, wait, I'm voting MP cause it's always a good idea to kill him. \o/

This is becoming our thing now isn't it.

[gfishfunk]

No voting Day 0, correct?

I haven't even read the rules yet. I can access the site from work and I'll have plenty of downtime Monday.

Can we vote no lynch?

Why in the world would we want to vote no lynch?

I'm asking, not suggesting.

My question still stands.

As for me: if you have a four town versus two scum scenario, I would tend to go no lynch as town, force a mafia kill and gather more info rather than risk a wrong lynch in end game.

As for you, you are my highest scum read right now.

My thoughts on in-game lists and things: invent a pointless chore, attach significance, and then see what players do with it. What players do with it, how they respond to it, and the ways in which they dodge it are all interesting and relevant.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Meta!

Adam is cool as a cucumber. He does not crack. Unafraid of going against the grain. Sometimes not as active as I would hope. Depends on things irl. Generally doesn't lead lynches but gets conversation going early. Clutch late game.

Nifty is a nice guy. Gets a bit flustered when under suspicion (only as a townie?) especially when people scum read him based on disagreements like "Player X would only do that if they were mafia" or "Your target is super scummy, Nifty" and he doesn't think so. Can't trust me early. Expects me to not trust him. Traditionally an early game coaster (on reads, not posting) he's been really getting into things early, lately. Better than he thinks he is.

See previous post about Bob. He's a lynch leader and probably has the most Syndicatey play style besides me and Silver.

Dom I've played with once. Kinda quiet. Similar to Nifty, can get fluster over disagreements. More likely to turn disagreements into scum reads.

DrWigly is jokey. Haven't watched him pull off a strong play or a big mistake so idk what I can say that would be helpful beyond "fluff/silliness=/=scum Wigly."

Dizzy is basically ABF if ABF was good at mafia and didn't disappear for full day phases on occasion.

Epi is my arrogance/confidence and desire to meta read stuff only he's apparently good at it. Kinda grumpy. Maybe a better comparison would be Rokk when he isn't having fun. Smart cookie, though. Doesn't crack even in really bad situations. Soft spot for Llama.

Fred is known by most of us.

GFish is smart and thinks outside the box. Don't read him good or bad based on his "stupid questions." He's going somewhere with them. Or he just hasn't ruled the idea out as stupid yet. Will lead lynches early. Soft/hard spot for IR.

IR is another lynch leader. Gets a bit more heated at times than the other players in his weight class. Not as much as Silver, though. Smart with night actions. Soft/hard spot for GFish.

LC is very chill. Thinking what I'm thinking pretty often. I'm terrible at reading him. Soft spot for Epi. Will probably seem fluffy for a day or two but don't worry about that.

MP is sweet as pie. Suuuuper clutch late game when he puts the time in. Haven't actually played an early game with him iirc.

Nutella's style didn't really stand out to me or rub anyone the wrong way in the one game we played together in. He was supertown and then he died.

Silver is known to most of us.

Spirityo I don't have a good bead on. Watched him get easy lynched as town, replace in and get easy lynched as mafia. On the quiet side. Newish to the site?

SVS is nice and used to have a badger avatar. Don't have a strong understanding of her meta.

Llama is Llama. I guess that's not helpful. You'll see. I don't get him anyway.

Tony is relatively new to the Realms. Great performances in one night setups. Doesn't tend to lead lynches. Has impressed me more as scum than as town. So if I think he's town, he's fooled me and if I think he's scum, I'm tunneling.

I like this post and think we should all do the same. I really don't care what your opinions of your fellow mafia goers are, I want to see how you frame them, talk about them, and highlight them.

I find it suspicious that you call for everyone to make a meta post like this instead of focusing on developing reads. Please expand on this thing. I don't like it.

Voting gfishfunk.

[Tangrowth]

No voting Day 0, correct?

I haven't even read the rules yet. I can access the site from work and I'll have plenty of downtime Monday.

Can we vote no lynch?

Why in the world would we want to vote no lynch?

I'm asking, not suggesting.

Good cooperation on the MP wagon. If he's town, we can blame Wilgy.
Also, don't think no lynch is a choice, since it's not an option in the poll.

I thought I would throw a vote on him to see what he would do.

Is this a game that you can power claim, name claim, action claim, alliance claim, and everything? I assume so, but I don't want to get mod-killed or whatever your equivalent is.

gfish, this is what you said regarding your vote on me.

You now say I'm your highest scum read.

I'm not sure I believe you. Your explanation here indicates that your vote is out of pure pressure, but then you seem to be forcing your more recent posts into an actual suspicion of me. Explain how that thought process developed if you don't mind.

[Long Con]

Adam is Adam, someone I don't know

CaptainNifty, don't know him from Adam, or Joe

colonialbob seems expert enough

Dom can be wrong, but his posts are not fluff

DrWilgy plays zany, but check out his stats

Dyslexicon's Dizzy, will wow you with cats

Epignosis acts like he knows what is what

Fredwood, still somewhat new, with a "but"

gfishfunk's a lawyer, but I will allow it

Immortal_Raven, your posting, I might just eyebrow it

Jackofhearts, plays his cards, and sometimes just right

Long Con, hear his words and you may see the light

MovingPictures07 will post till he's blue

nutella you won't see her coming for you

Silver Lantern my Day 1 suspicion, and vote

sprityo, not spelled as "spirityo", please note

S~V~S can succeed with bold moves from the gut

thellama makes cases that open and shut

TonyStarkPrime, perfect man made of iron

My rhymes aren't fantastic, but hey, I am tryin'.

[Tangrowth]

I'm reporting in. Sorry I missed the excitement this weekend. I was at Dallas FanExpo all weekend being a super-nerd. I'm going to continue to study those roles they look amazing.

Right now I don't like llama's posting. I'm going to trust that he's just a bit of a grinner (HCR knows what I mean), but I the bouncing around kinda thing makes him look guilty in my book.

How? Walk me through that logic.

[gfishfunk]

I don't find "cozying" or buddying to be a remotely accurate scum tell 99% of the time.

Walk me through a reality in which mafia JOH has an incentive to make the above commentary and town JOH doesn't.

JoH especially tends to cozy as mafia. So does Silver Lantern if that helps. I find flattery atypical.

[Long Con]

Anyway, as I said, voting Silver Lantern. I didn't particularly like his response to my comments on the S~V~S thing.

I also am suspicious of Dizzy and Llama, for their "kill MP day 1" "jokes". Just reminds me too much of Macdougall in the Champs game, and the "joke" that fully meta-caught him.

[Tangrowth]

I think gfish is full of crap.

(Don't take this personally, gfish, you seem like a cool dude and I'm enjoying playing with you.) What I mean is that he is officially a firm mafia read.

See Exhibit A:

MovingPictures07 - Threw down a read super early on very little, which leads me to believe that s/he is trying to generate an air of competence and expertise with the players new to the forum, and set expectations. Can't say whether its good or bad.

Then, with no posts from me in the duration as well as, more importantly, literally no other comments about me whatsoever, he then responds to me with this:

Spoiler: show

No voting Day 0, correct?

I haven't even read the rules yet. I can access the site from work and I'll have plenty of downtime Monday.

Can we vote no lynch?

Why in the world would we want to vote no lynch?

I'm asking, not suggesting.

My question still stands.

As for me: if you have a four town versus two scum scenario, I would tend to go no lynch as town, force a mafia kill and gather more info rather than risk a wrong lynch in end game.

As for you, you are my highest scum read right now.

My thoughts on in-game lists and things: invent a pointless chore, attach significance, and then see what players do with it. What players do with it, how they respond to it, and the ways in which they dodge it are all interesting and relevant.

This is bullshit. He saw an easy wagon and he's trying to take advantage of a thread in which I had to come back with less than 8 hours to EoD and perform under the pressure of that and 3 votes on me.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Meta!

Adam is cool as a cucumber. He does not crack. Unafraid of going against the grain. Sometimes not as active as I would hope. Depends on things irl. Generally doesn't lead lynches but gets conversation going early. Clutch late game.

Nifty is a nice guy. Gets a bit flustered when under suspicion (only as a townie?) especially when people scum read him based on disagreements like "Player X would only do that if they were mafia" or "Your target is super scummy, Nifty" and he doesn't think so. Can't trust me early. Expects me to not trust him. Traditionally an early game coaster (on reads, not posting) he's been really getting into things early, lately. Better than he thinks he is.

See previous post about Bob. He's a lynch leader and probably has the most Syndicatey play style besides me and Silver.

Dom I've played with once. Kinda quiet. Similar to Nifty, can get fluster over disagreements. More likely to turn disagreements into scum reads.

DrWigly is jokey. Haven't watched him pull off a strong play or a big mistake so idk what I can say that would be helpful beyond "fluff/silliness=/=scum Wigly."

Dizzy is basically ABF if ABF was good at mafia and didn't disappear for full day phases on occasion.

Epi is my arrogance/confidence and desire to meta read stuff only he's apparently good at it. Kinda grumpy. Maybe a better comparison would be Rokk when he isn't having fun. Smart cookie, though. Doesn't crack even in really bad situations. Soft spot for Llama.

Fred is known by most of us.

GFish is smart and thinks outside the box. Don't read him good or bad based on his "stupid questions." He's going somewhere with them. Or he just hasn't ruled the idea out as stupid yet. Will lead lynches early. Soft/hard spot for IR.

IR is another lynch leader. Gets a bit more heated at times than the other players in his weight class. Not as much as Silver, though. Smart with night actions. Soft/hard spot for GFish.

LC is very chill. Thinking what I'm thinking pretty often. I'm terrible at reading him. Soft spot for Epi. Will probably seem fluffy for a day or two but don't worry about that.

MP is sweet as pie. Suuuuper clutch late game when he puts the time in. Haven't actually played an early game with him iirc.

Nutella's style didn't really stand out to me or rub anyone the wrong way in the one game we played together in. He was supertown and then he died.

Silver is known to most of us.

Spirityo I don't have a good bead on. Watched him get easy lynched as town, replace in and get easy lynched as mafia. On the quiet side. Newish to the site?

SVS is nice and used to have a badger avatar. Don't have a strong understanding of her meta.

Llama is Llama. I guess that's not helpful. You'll see. I don't get him anyway.

Tony is relatively new to the Realms. Great performances in one night setups. Doesn't tend to lead lynches. Has impressed me more as scum than as town. So if I think he's town, he's fooled me and if I think he's scum, I'm tunneling.

Just for completion's sake:

Jack: wants to lead the town whether he's town or mafia. Right more than he's wrong but generally more stubborn when he's wrong than when he's right. Scum Jack is generally doing his best impression of town Jack.

So true it hurts. Especially the part about being more stubborn when I'm wrong.

[Tangrowth]

Moving Pictures - Didn't like the questioning of cbob. It might be a culture difference, but that kind of aggression comes off as arrogance to me which I immediately dislike. Doesn't make scum, but don't like it.

Just wanted to speak to this.

I play this game in an aggressive fashion, that I can admit, because I like to take charge of the thread and I love starting discussion. I get heavily invested in mafia games and my style involves me making many posts and interrogating players to the best of my ability to uncover everyone's alignment. I'm a heavily analytically-driven player, even if I get emotional and can develop tone-based reads, and I need a lot of content to sort through players as effectively as possible. All of my posts are made in an entirely respectful and in-game fashion of trying to play the game to the best of my ability. Sometimes I feel that requires some confident or driven interrogations as opposed to less emotional inquiries.

Literally nothing I post is ever intended with arrogance. I want to make that abundantly clear. I love playing this game with all of you and I mean no disrespect. If you ever take offense or disrespect out of something I say, I apologize in advance, and I'd be more than happy to try and settle any seriously harmed feelings or disputes outside of the game thread with the assistance of the Moderator on Duty, but I'd hope nothing I say ever reaches that level.

[gfishfunk]

I thought I would throw a vote on him to see what he would do.

gfish, this is what you said regarding your vote on me.

You now say I'm your highest scum read.

I'm not sure I believe you. Your explanation here indicates that your vote is out of pure pressure, but then you seem to be forcing your more recent posts into an actual suspicion of me. Explain how that thought process developed if you don't mind.

You are correct. I wanted to see how you would respond and I don't like your response.

I don't like how you indicated that JoH's post was pointless: lets call it a Meta-list. I wish to turn it into a game and see how people respond. You questioned its value and then several posts later discussed llama's day 1 habits - something that shows the Meta-list to be useful. Your avoidance of making a Meta-list is suspicious to me.

If it helps, Long Con is my most scum read at the moment. That Meta-list is totally non-revealing. Its a response that shows participation without providing substance. Nifty's Meta-list also struck me: I said adamcial is a bit of a lurker and he copied it into his. Adamical is not a lurker, he tends to have one of the higher post counts in a game. I wanted to see who called me out on it and was surprised when Nifty copied it.

[S~V~S]

I will do my list after work, too much Mafia time already today. I have to get one of those fisheye mirrors for over my desk at work.

@MP, not seeing what is wrong with the list. It is not dissimilar to your beloved rainbows; why the dislike? Also, MP, I am watching all these new people and listening to them talk about each other. Consider me invested.

[Tangrowth]

No voting Day 0, correct?

I haven't even read the rules yet. I can access the site from work and I'll have plenty of downtime Monday.

Can we vote no lynch?

Why in the world would we want to vote no lynch?

I'm asking, not suggesting.

My question still stands.

As for me: if you have a four town versus two scum scenario, I would tend to go no lynch as town, force a mafia kill and gather more info rather than risk a wrong lynch in end game.

As for you, you are my highest scum read right now.

My thoughts on in-game lists and things: invent a pointless chore, attach significance, and then see what players do with it. What players do with it, how they respond to it, and the ways in which they dodge it are all interesting and relevant.

Regarding your actual response, gfish, just wanted to say that the reasoning behind your inquiry of voting no lynch checks out.

[Tangrowth]

I don't find "cozying" or buddying to be a remotely accurate scum tell 99% of the time.

Walk me through a reality in which mafia JOH has an incentive to make the above commentary and town JOH doesn't.

JoH especially tends to cozy as mafia. So does Silver Lantern if that helps. I find flattery atypical.

I probably won't put a ton of stock into this meta assessment, but that's helpful nonetheless, thanks.

[Tangrowth]

Anyway, as I said, voting Silver Lantern. I didn't particularly like his response to my comments on the S~V~S thing.

I also am suspicious of Dizzy and Llama, for their "kill MP day 1" "jokes". Just reminds me too much of Macdougall in the Champs game, and the "joke" that fully meta-caught him.

Hey, LC, a few questions for you:

1) I just finished catching up, but admittedly it was a quick catchup, and I apologize but I must have missed your discussion of Silver Lantern's post in question here. Can you elaborate on this or point me towards your original post and sell me on this?

2) Do you have any town reads; if so, who are they and why?

3) Do you think Dizzy and Llama have more incentive to make those joke posts as mafia than town?

[gfishfunk]

I think gfish is full of crap.

(Don't take this personally, gfish, you seem like a cool dude and I'm enjoying playing with you.) What I mean is that he is officially a firm mafia read.

No offense. I'm coming off waaaaaaaayyyyyy more aggressive in this game than normal. I don't think my normal style is going to work as well so I'm trying on something new.

Then, with no posts from me in the duration as well as, more importantly, literally no other comments about me whatsoever, he then responds to me with this:

.... ... ...[snip]... .. .....

This is bullshit. He saw an easy wagon and he's trying to take advantage of a thread in which I had to come back with less than 8 hours to EoD and perform under the pressure of that and 3 votes on me.

You literally had 20 posts between my two statements. I went back and counted them.

And absolutely: bandwagons or whatever are for pressure and learning something. Its absolutely the reason I voted for you. A vote anywhere else was pointless.

And 3 votes is very little in my experience.

[gfishfunk]

Switched vote to Long Con.

I like the rhyme aesthetically but found little of substance.

Nifty: do you really think Adam is a lurker?

[Tangrowth]

I thought I would throw a vote on him to see what he would do.

gfish, this is what you said regarding your vote on me.

You now say I'm your highest scum read.

I'm not sure I believe you. Your explanation here indicates that your vote is out of pure pressure, but then you seem to be forcing your more recent posts into an actual suspicion of me. Explain how that thought process developed if you don't mind.

You are correct. I wanted to see how you would respond and I don't like your response.

I don't like how you indicated that JoH's post was pointless: lets call it a Meta-list. I wish to turn it into a game and see how people respond. You questioned its value and then several posts later discussed llama's day 1 habits - something that shows the Meta-list to be useful. Your avoidance of making a Meta-list is suspicious to me.

If it helps, Long Con is my most scum read at the moment. That Meta-list is totally non-revealing. Its a response that shows participation without providing substance. Nifty's Meta-list also struck me: I said adamcial is a bit of a lurker and he copied it into his. Adamical is not a lurker, he tends to have one of the higher post counts in a game. I wanted to see who called me out on it and was surprised when Nifty copied it.

I don't think creating a meta list is remotely high priority, especially with a thread so untalkative and with so little reads floating around. I have no idea what most of the player list even think of any other single player. That's not good.

I prefer to focus on developing reads, especially with so little time until EoD. If you don't like that, then I don't know what to say. We have a difference in what we prioritize when playing this game then. As I said previously, meta can be useful if employed without blinders, which is difficult to do, but IMO only convincingly so alongside other evidence or in-game thoughts. I hesitate towards trusting meta alone unless I simply can't avoid it.

I'd be more than happy to provide you with a meta list once I get to lower priority items, but I'd rather spend time catching up on a thread I wasn not current on (which I did) and then right now developing reads and interacting to start discussion in real time, regarding posts in this game.

[Tangrowth]

All of that said, gfish, I'll take a step back for now and evaluate your posts in isolation to determine whether your thought process is genuine. It could be. I just called you out for what I saw as an inherent contradiction in your posts, especially since I think it displayed opportunistic behavior. I'm cooling a bit on that now, for what it's worth, especially since you're throwing opinions out there with no regard for how they're perceived. I think that's a good look in isolation, regardless of how I felt about your behavior while catching up. I also realize that I could be tunneling a bit since your suspicion is directed towards me and not someone else, and I recognize I can have a bad habit of that, so I'll give you until EoD to shake out for now. I'm willing to call you a still would consider lynching grey read, not a red mafia read, at this time.

Unvote

[Tangrowth]

Oh, I see I don't have an unvote option in the poll. Well. Let's find someone else to vote.

I'll switch to Dom. I want him to answer my concerns.

[Tangrowth]

I will do my list after work, too much Mafia time already today. I have to get one of those fisheye mirrors for over my desk at work.

@MP, not seeing what is wrong with the list. It is not dissimilar to your beloved rainbows; why the dislike? Also, MP, I am watching all these new people and listening to them talk about each other. Consider me invested.

It is dissimilar. Meta reads typically concentrate on what players think of other players in general, independent of the current game. I think that's lower priority than in-game content. Rainbow reads are based on what I think of players in this game.

Nonetheless, I can understand your perspective and am taking it into consideration when reading you and others.

[colonialbob]

Bob, since you're here, let's talk. What are your current reads and why? Literally any reads you have, even if very slight.

Sighhhhh had a whole post of reads get eaten. Will come back to this, promise. Sorry, playing on mobile st work sucks sometimes.

[Tangrowth]

You literally had 20 posts between my two statements. I went back and counted them.

And absolutely: bandwagons or whatever are for pressure and learning something. Its absolutely the reason I voted for you. A vote anywhere else was pointless.

And 3 votes is very little in my experience.

Well, I must have lost track of where I was in the thread. My sincere apologies.

Consider my previous mafia read completely retracted.

[Tangrowth]

Bob, since you're here, let's talk. What are your current reads and why? Literally any reads you have, even if very slight.

Sighhhhh had a whole post of reads get eaten. Will come back to this, promise. Sorry, playing on mobile st work sucks sometimes.

No worries, take your time.

Only don't, because sense of urgency and all of that.

[Long Con]

Anyway, as I said, voting Silver Lantern. I didn't particularly like his response to my comments on the S~V~S thing.

I also am suspicious of Dizzy and Llama, for their "kill MP day 1" "jokes". Just reminds me too much of Macdougall in the Champs game, and the "joke" that fully meta-caught him.

Hey, LC, a few questions for you:

1) I just finished catching up, but admittedly it was a quick catchup, and I apologize but I must have missed your discussion of Silver Lantern's post in question here. Can you elaborate on this or point me towards your original post and sell me on this?

2) Do you have any town reads; if so, who are they and why?

3) Do you think Dizzy and Llama have more incentive to make those joke posts as mafia than town?

1. This would be the reaction that tickled my suspiciometer. Defensive, with a thin slice of OMGUS at the end.

2. I don't think so. I think I'm more likely to assign town reads with more meat in the game - my initial stance is a slight suspicion of everyone. Everyone wants to looks town, I'm not going to believe it from a day of participation (or lack thereof).

3. I don't know about incentive, I'm just saying that the joke-style rings a bell, and it was a baddie tell from Macdougall. Of course they have different metas, but it could still be a baddie tell for them. Like when I suspected Quin for using the same excuse as I did before - he called an earlier vote a "pressure vote" as explanation, as I had done (as a baddie) in the game before. Quin was also bad. Different meta, same tell.

[Long Con]

Switched vote to Long Con.

I like the rhyme aesthetically but found little of substance.

It was either that, or not do it... I don't really have the mindset of a predictable meta for most players. My use of meta seems to focus more on individual instances and direct connections with past games than generalizations about players.

[Tangrowth]

MP Rainbow #2

Spoiler: show

colonialbob
DrWilgy
S~V~S

gfishfunk
thellama73

Adam
CaptainNifty
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
Fredwood
Immortal_Raven
Jackofhearts2005
Long Con
nutella
Silver Lantern
sprityo
TonyStarkPrime

Dom

Willing to actually throw gfish into the very slight town reads because I think our different approaches to the game as well as a misunderstanding and some major brief tunneling on my part clouded my judgment; I feel alright about his approach to solving the game.

[Tangrowth]

I think gfish is full of crap.

(Don't take this personally, gfish, you seem like a cool dude and I'm enjoying playing with you.) What I mean is that he is officially a firm mafia read.

No offense. I'm coming off waaaaaaaayyyyyy more aggressive in this game than normal. I don't think my normal style is going to work as well so I'm trying on something new.

This is pretty much my normal style, so no offense is absolutely intended towards anyone when I question their intentions this way.

[Tangrowth]

Anyway, as I said, voting Silver Lantern. I didn't particularly like his response to my comments on the S~V~S thing.

I also am suspicious of Dizzy and Llama, for their "kill MP day 1" "jokes". Just reminds me too much of Macdougall in the Champs game, and the "joke" that fully meta-caught him.

Hey, LC, a few questions for you:

1) I just finished catching up, but admittedly it was a quick catchup, and I apologize but I must have missed your discussion of Silver Lantern's post in question here. Can you elaborate on this or point me towards your original post and sell me on this?

2) Do you have any town reads; if so, who are they and why?

3) Do you think Dizzy and Llama have more incentive to make those joke posts as mafia than town?

1. This would be the reaction that tickled my suspiciometer. Defensive, with a thin slice of OMGUS at the end.

2. I don't think so. I think I'm more likely to assign town reads with more meat in the game - my initial stance is a slight suspicion of everyone. Everyone wants to looks town, I'm not going to believe it from a day of participation (or lack thereof).

3. I don't know about incentive, I'm just saying that the joke-style rings a bell, and it was a baddie tell from Macdougall. Of course they have different metas, but it could still be a baddie tell for them. Like when I suspected Quin for using the same excuse as I did before - he called an earlier vote a "pressure vote" as explanation, as I had done (as a baddie) in the game before. Quin was also bad. Different meta, same tell.

Noted, thanks. That all appears sensible.

Not sure how to read you or SL still though. I'm not convinced that SL's response is more characteristic of defensive baddie than defensive townie. Help me out.

[gfishfunk]

I don't think creating a meta list is remotely high priority, especially with a thread so untalkative and with so little reads floating around. I have no idea what most of the player list even think of any other single player. That's not good.

I have the opposite approach: I think it generates talkative players.