Street Fighter II Mafia [ENDGAME]

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Round 6... Fight!

Poll ended at Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:32 pm

DFaraday
1
10%
Diiny
0
No votes
DrWilgy
2
20%
Elohcin
1
10%
Long Con
0
No votes
malakim2099
0
No votes
Serge
0
No votes
Simon
1
10%
Geki (The Host, the Non, the Dead)
5
50%
 
Total votes: 10
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Dom
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#451

Post by Dom »

Long Con wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:01 am
Dom wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:58 pmI don't buy that MP totally thinks you're civ for a second.
Why not? I'm in the elite green of his list, and he's stated more than once that he doesn't think I'm bad, if I recall correctly.
I don't see that as genuine for a second.
dunya wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:57 pm
Dom wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:43 pm
Dom wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:20 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:27 pm
Diiny wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:22 pm gah no roleclaiming/outing really goes against my instincts

how have you found adapting, JJJ? iirc that's how the majority of games are played here
Does this post seem forced to anyone else?

I'm not necessarily scum-reading Diiny for it, but something is off. It just seems to me Diiny is struggling coming up with conversation, but it's striking to me that he singled out Jay only for this inquiry.
i doubt diiny has bstc
i meant dunya
confused y'all.
what is bstc and why do you doubt i have it?
I was talking about dunya, not you.
MovingPictures07 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:04 pm
Dom wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:43 pm
Dom wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:20 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:27 pm
Diiny wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:22 pm gah no roleclaiming/outing really goes against my instincts

how have you found adapting, JJJ? iirc that's how the majority of games are played here
Does this post seem forced to anyone else?

I'm not necessarily scum-reading Diiny for it, but something is off. It just seems to me Diiny is struggling coming up with conversation, but it's striking to me that he singled out Jay only for this inquiry.
i doubt diiny has bstc
i meant dunya
confused y'all.
Okay, well ignore my other question, but what led you to this conclusion? :p
Dunya is asking a lot of questions that would be much easier to answer in BTSC and has asked questions that would be a lot harder to answer in BTSC. I see no evidence of a new player being told info about the personal goings-ons of other players, new to him, in btsc.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:46 pm
Elohcin wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:56 pm JackofHearts, are you civ this game?
Eloh, I'm always a civ.
Y OU R BAD
Spoiler: show
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#452

Post by Tangrowth »

Dom wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:31 pm
Long Con wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:01 am
Dom wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:58 pmI don't buy that MP totally thinks you're civ for a second.
Why not? I'm in the elite green of his list, and he's stated more than once that he doesn't think I'm bad, if I recall correctly.
I don't see that as genuine for a second.
Can you explain what specifically leads you to that conclusion? I need to try to figure out whether you're just painting me with a mafia brush opportunistically or whether you genuinely believe I'm being dishonest, and I can't do that if all you say is you don't find my read of LC to be genuine and don't elaborate. [/quote]
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#453

Post by Tangrowth »

Dom wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:31 pmDunya is asking a lot of questions that would be much easier to answer in BTSC and has asked questions that would be a lot harder to answer in BTSC. I see no evidence of a new player being told info about the personal goings-ons of other players, new to him, in btsc.
That's actually a very astute point, good thought. Of course, it would be pretty easy for her to just ask all of those kinds of questions as a default into the thread, but your logic is sound. I agree with it.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#454

Post by Jackofhearts2005 »

[mention]Spacedaisy[/mention]

One mobile, once you at anybody, you get an obnoxious blue box that pastes a mention (sometimes deleting other text in the process) if you click it or hit return.

There is no way to get rid of it from what I can tell.

For instance, if I at Daisy, I get a blue box that says Daisy Loan Shark. There's no way to get rid of her.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#455

Post by Tangrowth »

Updated rainbow with detailed reads upcoming, then I have to leave. Was hoping to get to actually dig into ISOs and such, but yeah. Time is limited and I'm already putting way too much into this game thus far.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#456

Post by Long Con »

[mention]Spacedaisy[/mention] works for me now

[mention]DrWilgy[/mention] hope you guys dry out soon!

[mention]Long Con[/mention] :noble: :noble: ;)
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#457

Post by Tangrowth »

MP Rainbow List #3 - Night 1

Moderate Town
Diiny
dunya
Long Con
speedchuck


Slight Town
DFaraday
Dom
Elohcin
nijuukyugou
Simon
Sloonei


Slight Mafia
DrWilgy
Jackofhearts2005
JaggedJimmyJay


Moderate Mafia
malakim2099


Here's an updated rainbow pre: further investigation. Within groups I have not ranked by suspicion but alphabetically.

In the moderate town section:

- I'm still feeling good about Diiny's dog-barking questioning of just about anyone at various points of the second half of Day 1. That said, I do want to examine some of his lines of questioning to determine whether they are unreasonable or fabricated, but almost none of them struck me as so in the moment yesterday.

- Likewise, dunya was pushing the thread when I entered it T-minus 5 hours or so until EoD yesterday and has made a seemingly genuine effort to discern who is scum. Like Diiny, whether it's genuine or not needs to be assessed, because from what I understand the amount of effort and investigation on the part of both players is par for the course regardless of alignment.

- I've stated my thoughts on LC at length, so I don't want to bore you all with them, but I'm actually feeling better about him than ever right now. His dogged pursuit of me still feels genuine because he has been able to specifically walk through me and the thread through his thought process and seems genuinely interested in convincing everyone else of it. I would like him to explore other players (for the sake of the town but also because he's wrong about me, lol), but that doesn't interfere with my read of him at this time. I don't care if he continues to call this buddying; these are my honest thoughts about him, and I'm not going to let that keep me from stating them.

- I'm digging speedchuck's contributions during N1; prompted by JOH, his analysis of Elo and posts in general at face value scream to me of someone who wants to uncover Elo's alignment.

In the slight town section:

- I previously expressed why I liked DF's contributions here, but I need more.

- I'm not very sure what to make of Dom, but I never know what to make of Dom, so I'm forcing myself to take a stand here. He was essentially absent for most of the game until just recently. Revisiting his ISO and it's already apparent that there's one thing I like: When he came into the thread N1, he threw out a few opinions, including the recently explained theory that dunya doesn't have BTSC, that Jay didn't throw out any alternatives, and questioned Simon's theory. I think at face value it seems good that he quickly came into the thread and starting flinging mud/opinions in a very Dom-like fashion, even if I personally felt the first one held up very well and the latter two not quite as well. With that said, it's a behavior that could be easily replicated if he were bad, so I'm not ready to give him a ton of points for it. I also am struggling with why he thinks I'm being dishonest regarding my opinion of LC, but Dom and I never fail to butt heads and see each other as bad in literally every game we play together, so it's plausible that he's seeing me through mafia-colored glasses and we just aren't communicating effectively. I await his clarification to try to determine whether he's opportunistically throwing more fire at me or genuinely believes I'm making stuff up.

- Elo is always a tough nut for me to crack due to her unique approach to the game, namely because I feel we just approach it so differently, so it's always difficult for me to discern whether I just am not understanding where she's coming from and she's being genuine, or if she really is manufacturing her content. I've had trouble sorting her so far, but I suppose with a GTH I do believe she is a townie, ever so slightly. Her thoughts seem genuinely assessed, although unconventional conclusions perhaps, and I don't find her wishywashiness or similar behavior inherently suspicious because I do believe that is a meta characteristic of hers regardless of alignment to some extent. I need to mull over this and look at speedchuck's assessments/research, but off the top of my head I think we'd be seeing an Elo with EITHER more aggressive opinions or making up more excuses for why she doesn't have firm opinions at this stage of the game, which I'm not really seeing, if she were bad.

- I liked niju/Blooper's contributions when I was interacting with her in real time late in D1, but I want to see more, and although I have no particular reason at this time to believe so, it's possible her vote for Bass was done as a nefarious cop out.

- I've spoken why I liked Simon yesterday, but he needs to come update us.

- I still am feeling Sloonei is genuine and I appreciate he's been asking some questions so far in N1, but I don't have a solid town feel for him yet and he's most apt of any player in my town range to drop, so I need him to step it up to get a better feel from him and because I know he's capable of being an incredibly strong asset to the town via thorough investigation and poking.

In the slight mafia section:

- Wilgy has no content to judge; because I forced myself to eliminate neutral reads, he inevitably falls below the neutral line. Hopefully he can come in here soon.

- I'm pretty torn about JOH at the moment. I had a few potential beefs/questions for him when I arrived in the thread for N1 here, here, and here, and I believe he has adequately addressed the latter two. I'm particularly intrigued for his answer to the first, because my initial reaction to finding him jumping all over me and Elo when I arrived in the thread was that I smelled opportunism, but that in part could have been a natural NO U and a lack of understanding exactly what was leading JOH to these conclusions. The jury is out; although I don't feel that badly about him at the moment, perhaps I'm just a bit paranoid of him.

- Jay is well, Jay. I felt essentially torn/neutral on him throughout this game, but it's always tough to get a feel for him given his incredible ability to supatown or fake supatowning if he's bad. Now that he's replaced, we have a potentially problematic cloud over this spot; hopefully an active participant comes sooner rather than later. I have had vague and abstract reservations about Jay so far this game (see: here, even though in his very limited presence so far he did contribute to what I think could be said was the best of his ability to do so. I just still don't see what he was saying about Sloonei and perhaps feel that Jay was not giving Sloonei a fair line of questioning wherein he could have found Sloonei's behavior to be non-suspicious regardless of his reaction, but that's just a passing thought I had and admittedly a weak interpretation for what is more likely just a disagreement in perspective between me and Jay. As I said to Jay and also to clarify to Diiny, I had the weirds for Jay but didn't really suspect him, and it's incredibly possible and likely that I just never had a chance to mindmeld with Jay (specifically, we often see eye to eye and I specifically make a point in games we play together to engage him and mindmeld on players as quickly as possible -- given how intense/difficult of a player he can be to read in an attempt to townclear him) this game yet and I am more actively paranoid of him than everyone else.

In the moderate mafia section:

- Malakim is someone I've not played with before, so I have no meta basis here. I wasn't really sure what I thought of him prior to making this post, so I investigated his ISO and to my slight surprise I found that he had 14 posts in this game thus far -- I can't remember a single opinion of his other than some suspicion of me. Digging into the ISO, most of what I can see in the form of solid opinions is just that -- expressing suspicion of me in a way that suggests he's piggybacking more onto suspicion flung onto me over the course of the Night than in a genuine fashion coming from his original perspective. I expressed my beefs with his treatment of me here and here, which aren't due to it being centered around me but due to the alarming vagueness of the accusations surrounding the fact that I already was getting some major heat from other players so far in the Night. That's not ideal, regardless of the target of the suspicion. In addition, I found his other opinion of Sloonei/Elo to be based in questionable logic that hopefully he can address. He needs to address these beefs I've thrown at him as well as provide more thoughts on players other than those.

========================================================================================================

Please talk to me and the thread about your reads, folks. Tell me any of these you all find agreeable or disagreeable and why. I'm almost certainly wrong about some of them, especially since there's still not a lot to go on for half of you all. We need much more to go on for D2.

I really ought to go for the duration -- very likely until T minus 5-6 hours of the D2 deadline at the earliest, unfortunately, because I just have way too much I need to accomplish before then and can't afford to get tied up here. I apologize, speedchuck, for not giving my own opinion on what you've said re: Elohcin, but I tried to provide my own take of her above here, so hopefully you find it valuable. I took way too long working on crafting this, and now I've spent way too much time here in the thread as a result. I'll take a detailed look when I can.

Hopefully at least this can get the ball rolling on you all discussing as many players as possible. I know I have some serious heat headed my way already due to a number of you suspecting me, so if you all have questions for me, particularly if they are urgent in developing a read on me, please mention me or something. I'll try to address them with urgency upon my return, but also need to devote the bulk of my time to scum hunting because I believe that's more significant than defending myself until I'm blue in the face.

Good luck on hunting, you all. I think there's some good work being done so far but we really need to inspire a sense of urgency in as many of the town as possible if we want to win this thing. I know I'm cheerleading much more than I did yesterday, and I know I've posted an obscene amount to say what is probably not anything that insightful, I'm trying my best. Given a townie lynch in Bass and Jay's absence, I'm not trying to be annoying or overly pushy -- there's a void of the 'town motivation driver/facilitator' that needs to be filled -- and so we need to come together as a town to work through this game and solve it. I think we can do it. :beer:
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#458

Post by Jackofhearts2005 »

I don't think Mal's vagueness is alignment indicative.

Not yet.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#459

Post by malakim2099 »

Not ignoring. Reading. And re-evaluating some suspicions based on what I'm seeing now that I'm reading the thread when it isn't 1) right before bed and 2) when I'm at work. Give me a little bit.

Though [mention]MovingPictures07[/mention], I can't remember the last time I was in a game that had a dozen pages+ before Day 1, so I think rethinking my expectations is in order.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#460

Post by malakim2099 »

Also YAY for tagging actually working now!
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#461

Post by malakim2099 »

Well, unlike most of the Internet, I will admit when I was wrong. After taking the time to go through and read the first two pages, I don't mind MP that much. Maybe that will change (as I haven't hit the meat of the final hours yet), but I'm rethinking some assumptions I made on skimming things. Will keep posting every 2-3 pages of reading so I can articulate thoughts so far (since otherwise people might think I fell asleep or something.)

Simon's comment of "people voting for their role in Day 0" just seems weird to me. I don't like that. It almost feels like some fishing. I know that we can't claim/hint in thread, why would people do that in a poll?

Also not feeling the Sloonei hate in Day 1. Yeah, Dhalsim being an alien is a goofy statement, and you get hate on Day 0 for that. Getting votes and nearly being booted just for that? That feels bad to me. Though I do wish that the votes tracked better during the day phase since they could be changed.

But after going to this point, since we're guaranteed a departure every day-phase with a plurality... D1, I think going for an inactive isn't a bad idea. Normally on HCRealms rules I dislike it, but here, I can see it working.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#462

Post by Simon »

speedchuck wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:26 am
I want some non-role-related reads from Simon.
MovingPictures looks good to me. He's talking a lot and being a leader. :srsnod:
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#463

Post by Simon »

I want to save everyone from being tricked a lot. :jedi:
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#464

Post by malakim2099 »

Okay, caught up! Read a lot deeper here, and these are my impressions, based on what I've read.

Diiny - I liked his vote for Sloonei, and I liked his bulldogging around on D1. Pretty sure he's a townie or civ or whatever you call them here.

MP - Actually, in retrospect, I take back what I was saying about him. Reading it closer, the posts appear pretty well reasoned (or are meant to look reasoned, but then that's the I know that you know that I know that you know game). Overall, scaling back the suspicious thoughts of him. Pretty sure he's townie/civ too. I do appreciate the elaboration that yes, this is his normal play.

JoH - Fairly confident in his play here, but it's different than his Realms play to a degree.

Sloonei -Seemed to keep it low-key despite the pressure he was under, which this early seems to be civ-ish to me.

Elochin - Having trouble getting a read. She was helpful, but then that's a great way to seem civ-ish too.

Long Con - I don't know if this is a thing, but I know I've gotten really defensive when accused early in a game when I was a scummer elsewhere. And... well, I'm not familiar with the player. But it feels like he's reacting the way I did in those situations, which makes me feel a little twitchy.

Simon - Considering LC had enough on him to merit a vote, I don't like Simon's fixation on the poll and E Honda-hating D0 to vote for LC. Especially when there was the split between Sloonei or Bass, and this feels like a random vote when you could go one way or the other.

Anyway, that's the general impressions I have so far after taking the time to take a deep read. I need to figure out multiquoting on here, or do you just do it the old-fashioned way with lots of copy/pasta?
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#465

Post by Jackofhearts2005 »

MovingPictures07 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:00 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:16 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:42 pm
Diiny wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:31 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:15 pm I'm cautious because this is me. If I were to display any amount of confidence on Day 1 I'd be full on in MP hurricane mode based on very little and that typically doesn't end as well for town as I'd like it to, to put it lightly. I find that town benefits much better from me being cautious than careless.
I remember you being a tad more brazen than this in our games on OT. I like that you've stuck your neck out for some people, but tbh conversely that ties in with my fear of you treading very lightly.

If you had to choose right now, who's scum? Is your vote staying on squid? show me some fire without any actual consequences.
Probably. I'm sure I'll get brazen at some point here too like I almost always do, but my record at actually catching scum when I put my foot full on the brakes is almost certainly laughably bad. Especially early on in games the past couple of years, I try to be as measured as possible, but I'll still poke something if I feel there's something worth poking. As the game progresses I'll probably be more likely to pursue something doggedly. It depends inevitably on what happens though. If I really thought there was something super suspicious in the thread right now I'd be all over it, I think anyway. As it stands, unfortunately I think this game is a more typical Day 1 -- there's a bunch of weaksauce cases to be made that may or may not be totally legit, and I'm not in love with any of them -- specifically, the thoughts people have said re: any of the players with votes right now (Sloonei, JOH, LC, and speedchuck). With that said, however, I'm most potentially swayed by dunya's observation of LC. Just not ready to pull the trigger on it. Not convinced in the slightest by any of the others.

If I had to choose right now... ugh. I'm terrible at scum reads early in the game and these days much prefer to play POE for the first phase or two because I think it plays to my strengths. That said, I suppose I'd pick two or three of Bass, DFaraday, Dom, DrWilgy, Elohcin, and malakim to be bad (and which I choose would be basically luck at this point because none of them have literally anything substantial to judge), and then one of the players with votes right now that have some heat (JOH, Sloonei, LC, speedchuck -- GTH I'd pick LC), and then one of the more talkative bunch so far (you, Jay, dunya, Sloonei again, Blooper -- GTH I'd pick Jay). So LC, Jay, and two lurkers basically. I think.

As for what I'd do with my vote, it's very likely moving away from Blooper. I don't feel anything bad about her right now; it was basically RVS. I'd most likely vote for Bass. Not sure yet. It'd be nice if more folks popped in here soon so I can sort through how everyone else is feeling.
I hate this post. Whole lotta nothing. Like trying to guess the plot of a show. But there is no script, no writer playing up drama, just players playing and thus, no strength behind these ideas.

I dislike his interactions with LC a lot (in that LC comes out on top and MP comes across dishonest) and of course, his push on Bass, a townie.

At this point, MP is my top suspect.
I don't care if you hate it; why would this make me bad?

What specifically do you dislike about my interactions with LC? Point out what comes across as dishonest.

Blaming me for a townie death seems awfully convenient. I take full responsibility for my vote, but I wasn't the only one to vote for Bass, and I'm never going to be right all of the time. His alignment basically came down to a coin flip. Turns out this was a bad one. Oh well. It happens. If I hadn't done anything, we would have had an unknown entity flying through to LYLO because he would have likely not gotten forcibly replaced. I've seen it happen too many times before, and I didn't feel comfortable enough voting elsewhere. You think that's bad, that's your prerogative, but it's not.
It's potentially fake analysis. That's baddieish.

Here's a specific post where you look dishonest.
Long Con wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:12 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:11 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:36 pm Sup Din and Dun. What's your story?

Tempted to vote Sloonei for the alien comment.

Do we think the day one poll did anything? Power up Ryu maybe?
.... then this post was literally two posts later, right after another post by JOH:
Long Con wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:12 pm Could be. I also thought it was weird, calling Dhalsim an alien.
How is that NOT fanning the flames of JOH's suspicion, LC?
Because it wasn't a real suspicion. We both know it.

You are fanning flames, in this very post.
There's no flames to be fanned regarding me suspecting Sloonei. Yet there was undo focus on LC and Speedchuck, primarily because of you. (Of course, if you turn out to be good and one of them turns out to be bad, this isn't a problem. Still, didn't feel like a useful route to go down, looking back.)

I primarily blamed you for the Bass vote for two reasons.

1) You backed off all your suspicions of participating players to push the Bass train.

2) Players I suspected of being buddies with you followed.

Now, I'm gonna retract 2. So....we'll just see about Bass being important or not as other people flip.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#466

Post by speedchuck »

MovingPictures07 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:15 pm
speedchuck wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:48 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:50 am @Speedchuck

What do you think of Eloh?
ISO'd her just now.

I give it 65% odds she's bad.
Care to elaborate?
MovingPictures07 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:18 pm
Sloonei wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:38 pm
speedchuck wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:48 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:50 am @Speedchuck

What do you think of Eloh?
ISO'd her just now.

I give it 65% odds she's bad.
Why?
Sloonei, I need you to step it up here. Please share literally whatever thoughts you have about any of the players in the game.
:haha:
SIGNATURE:
Spoiler: show
Speedchuck wins the "Jack Torrance Has Always Been The Caretaker" award.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#467

Post by Dom »

MovingPictures07 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:34 pm
Dom wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:31 pm
Long Con wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:01 am
Dom wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:58 pmI don't buy that MP totally thinks you're civ for a second.
Why not? I'm in the elite green of his list, and he's stated more than once that he doesn't think I'm bad, if I recall correctly.
I don't see that as genuine for a second.
Can you explain what specifically leads you to that conclusion? I need to try to figure out whether you're just painting me with a mafia brush opportunistically or whether you genuinely believe I'm being dishonest, and I can't do that if all you say is you don't find my read of LC to be genuine and don't elaborate.
[/quote]

Perhaps you could answer some questions for me about it to better explain myself.

In ten words or less (TEN WORDS OR LESS): why is LC good?
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#468

Post by malakim2099 »

Actually, I wasn't kidding. Is there a multi-quote button, or not so much? :puppy:
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#469

Post by speedchuck »

After further consideration, Eloh's not currently on my lynch-list. Sorry Jack. As usual, I'm townreading you while disagreeing with you. Eloh is an interesting study. Looking at her meta: Sometimes she's more active than other times, sometimes more confident, and her tone changes from game to game. I believe this game to be closer, tone-wise, to one of her town games. But only marginally.

I'm more interested in possible co-alignments, which is where you seemed to be headed. And I've seen little that suggests Eloh's coalignment with anyone.

I'll provide a full readlist on D2. Tomorrow morning, my time.

On the downside:
Simon wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:46 pm
speedchuck wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:26 am I want some non-role-related reads from Simon.
MovingPictures looks good to me. He's talking a lot and being a leader. :srsnod:
Don't like this. It's easy, and it has nothing to do with him being town or scum. Leaders are dangerous that way. And that's only one person. More pls.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#470

Post by Jackofhearts2005 »

Yeah, Simon and Mal in particular need to give me more.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#471

Post by Tangrowth »

Just popping in on phone for a second to respond to this as I stay caught up:
Dom wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:05 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:34 pm
Dom wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:31 pm
Long Con wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:01 am
Dom wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:58 pmI don't buy that MP totally thinks you're civ for a second.
Why not? I'm in the elite green of his list, and he's stated more than once that he doesn't think I'm bad, if I recall correctly.
I don't see that as genuine for a second.
Can you explain what specifically leads you to that conclusion? I need to try to figure out whether you're just painting me with a mafia brush opportunistically or whether you genuinely believe I'm being dishonest, and I can't do that if all you say is you don't find my read of LC to be genuine and don't elaborate.
Perhaps you could answer some questions for me about it to better explain myself.

In ten words or less (TEN WORDS OR LESS): why is LC good?
[/quote]

No. You're not deflecting this back onto me. I've spoken about LC at length and you're the one who made the statement accusing me of dishonesty. You made an assertion and stated it more than once that you don't buy my read of LC to be genuine. That means the burden of proof is on YOU to substantiate that claim, because you already apparently read what I said enough to make a strongly worded judgment that you think I'm lying. Therefore it's your responsibility to explain yourself, otherwise you're just slinging mud baselessly and that's incredibly suspicious.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#472

Post by Dom »

malakim2099 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:13 pm Actually, I wasn't kidding. Is there a multi-quote button, or not so much? :puppy:
not really tbh :/ i new tab it
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#473

Post by Dom »

MovingPictures07 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:19 pm Just popping in on phone for a second to respond to this as I stay caught up:
Dom wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:05 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:34 pm
Dom wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:31 pm
Long Con wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:01 am
Dom wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:58 pmI don't buy that MP totally thinks you're civ for a second.
Why not? I'm in the elite green of his list, and he's stated more than once that he doesn't think I'm bad, if I recall correctly.
I don't see that as genuine for a second.
Can you explain what specifically leads you to that conclusion? I need to try to figure out whether you're just painting me with a mafia brush opportunistically or whether you genuinely believe I'm being dishonest, and I can't do that if all you say is you don't find my read of LC to be genuine and don't elaborate.
Perhaps you could answer some questions for me about it to better explain myself.

In ten words or less (TEN WORDS OR LESS): why is LC good?
No. You're not deflecting this back onto me. I've spoken about LC at length and you're the one who made the statement accusing me of dishonesty. You made an assertion and stated it more than once that you don't buy my read of LC to be genuine. That means the burden of proof is on YOU to substantiate that claim, because you already apparently read what I said enough to make a strongly worded judgment that you think I'm lying. Therefore it's your responsibility to explain yourself, otherwise you're just slinging mud baselessly and that's incredibly suspicious.
[/quote]

Nah.

This is a pretty good reason to think you're bullshitting.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#474

Post by Spacedaisy »

[mention]malakim2099[/mention]

We just researched this today in fact and have not found an extension for multi-quote feature. Yet. I haven't given up hope entirely. You can add any quotes from the view you get of the thread from the full editor page. But it is limited to what you can see in the Topic Review portion unfortunately.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#475

Post by Jackofhearts2005 »

I'm curious myself, Dom.

If MP is lying and he does actually suspect LC, he must be town.

So what are you on about?
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#476

Post by Tangrowth »

Dom wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:21 pm Nah.

This is a pretty good reason to think you're bullshitting.
NO, you must substantiate your claim. You said I was lying about LC. I've spoken CLEARLY my thoughts on LC, just in my rainbow post above, let alone millions of previous time. And you've said I'm being dishonest. That means it's your responsibility to explain that claim. I now want you dead. You're bad and need to be lynched.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#477

Post by Tangrowth »

Dom is bad, folks. Let's lynch him please. He's flinging bullshit opinions he can't even back up.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#478

Post by malakim2099 »

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:19 pm Yeah, Simon and Mal in particular need to give me more.
Okay, I think I'm honestly not understanding what you mean. Because MP called me out (rightly) for being vague when I skimmed the previous day phase. So I read it more in depth, got some better impressions, posted those impressions...?

I mean, do you just want me to multi-quote where I'm getting that from? It'll take some time since I'm multi-tasking right now, but I can... :shrug:
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#479

Post by Tangrowth »

I highly suspect I'm going to be silenced, which is why I wanted to keep current with this thread until deadline. Pursue and interrogate everyone. I won't be back until the Day and hopefully I'll be able to post, but I'm not holding my breath.

malakim, I also wanted to say I appreciate your elaboration and recent efforts to get grounded into the game. I'd move you up to neutral because for now you've addressed the concerns I've had.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#480

Post by Tangrowth »

One last post for now.

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention]

How is it "fake" and "analysis"? There really isn't any analysis in there. Diiny asked me a question about who I would name as scum. At the time, I felt very unsure about any scum reads. I explained this at length. There's no analysis there. Either you believe my musings or you don't. So do you?

There are flames to be fanned -- Sloonei almost got lynched yesterday in part because of the joke suspicion you initiated. I'm not sure how you can say otherwise.

Also, re: "1) You backed off all your suspicions of participating players to push the Bass train."

No. You're going to have to substantiate how I "backed off" suspicions. I never had any scum reads, so that's either a manipulative misrepresentation and I'm tempted to call bullshit on you or you're misremembering my posts. I threw out various musings about potential suspicious behavior but swatted away most of it amid uncertainty and reasons to town read those players.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#481

Post by Tangrowth »

MP Rainbow List #4 - Night 1

Moderate Town
Long Con
speedchuck


Slight Town
DFaraday
Diiny
dunya
Elohcin
malakim2099
nijuukyugou
Simon
Sloonei


Slight Mafia
DrWilgy
JaggedJimmyJay


Moderate Mafia
Jackofhearts2005


Strong Mafia
Dom

I make such a liar out of myself. Just had to update this rainbow for clarity to reflect recent developments. Threw malakim into slight town based pretty much on a gut-based assessment of his recent attempts to get grounded into the game. Also moved Diiny and dunya down to slight town given that I need updates from them.

Night, all. Keep the thread active.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#482

Post by malakim2099 »

MovingPictures07 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:31 pm I highly suspect I'm going to be silenced, which is why I wanted to keep current with this thread until deadline. Pursue and interrogate everyone. I won't be back until the Day and hopefully I'll be able to post, but I'm not holding my breath.

malakim, I also wanted to say I appreciate your elaboration and recent efforts to get grounded into the game. I'd move you up to neutral because for now you've addressed the concerns I've had.
Thanks, I appreciate that.

I freely admit that at HCR, we have a way too heavy reliance on night powers as townies, and I want to shake off those bad habits. Which is why I decided to give this a try.

Really, I should run a vanilla game over there to try and mix things up a bit. Haven't had one of those in a LONG time.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#483

Post by Dom »

MovingPictures07 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:24 pm Dom is bad, folks. Let's lynch him please. He's flinging bullshit opinions he can't even back up.
lol

You can't summarize your thoughts onto LC into a single sentence. It's because it's a hodgepodge of bullshit that you're going around your ass to get to your elbow to create.

But sure. The person that you, earlier tonight, said was making good points is now bullshitting because they're challenging you. :)
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#484

Post by Dom »

suspects:
-mp
-jay
-jack of hearts
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#485

Post by Dom »

Long Con-- other than MP-- who is bad?
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#486

Post by Jackofhearts2005 »

MovingPictures07 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:35 pm One last post for now.

@Jackofhearts2005

How is it "fake" and "analysis"? There really isn't any analysis in there. Diiny asked me a question about who I would name as scum. At the time, I felt very unsure about any scum reads. I explained this at length. There's no analysis there. Either you believe my musings or you don't. So do you?

There are flames to be fanned -- Sloonei almost got lynched yesterday in part because of the joke suspicion you initiated. I'm not sure how you can say otherwise.

Also, re: "1) You backed off all your suspicions of participating players to push the Bass train."

No. You're going to have to substantiate how I "backed off" suspicions. I never had any scum reads, so that's either a manipulative misrepresentation and I'm tempted to call bullshit on you or you're misremembering my posts. I threw out various musings about potential suspicious behavior but swatted away most of it amid uncertainty and reasons to town read those players.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#487

Post by Epignosis »

YOU LOSE!
JackofHearts2005 has been killed by Shadaloo. He was:

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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 2]

#488

Post by Epignosis »

ROUND 2
FIGHT!
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#489

Post by Long Con »

Aw, Ken! Too bad. I voted you until a rhyme butterfly distracted me.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#490

Post by Elohcin »

Boo Mafia!!!
Banners are cool, but a pain to scroll through so...
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#491

Post by Tangrowth »

Dom wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:47 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:24 pm Dom is bad, folks. Let's lynch him please. He's flinging bullshit opinions he can't even back up.
lol

You can't summarize your thoughts onto LC into a single sentence. It's because it's a hodgepodge of bullshit that you're going around your ass to get to your elbow to create.

But sure. The person that you, earlier tonight, said was making good points is now bullshitting because they're challenging you. :)
No. This is on you. You called my thoughts of LC bullshit, and now you can't even explain how you came to that conclusion.

Either explain it or die. I'm voting for you until you can adequately provide an explanation for a thought you provided.

Clearly you don't even understand my opinion of LC enough because you keep asking me to summarize it, yet that is completely noncongruent with your assertion that I'm lying. So you're the fucking bullshitter, not me, and you're bad.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 2]

#492

Post by Tangrowth »

RIP JOH. Clearly I was wrong about you, thanks for a good effort.

VOTES DOM

BBL.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#493

Post by Spacedaisy »

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention]

I'm turning at mention off for you specifically until we can get it sorted.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 2]

#494

Post by Long Con »

MovingPictures07 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:59 pm RIP JOH. Clearly I was wrong about you, thanks for a good effort.

VOTES DOM

BBL.
I feel like I was pretty sudden in my accusation of you... but I think you are trumping me, with intent ferocity, in your Dom accusation and vote.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#495

Post by Sloonei »

Long Con wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:28 pm
Sorry, my friend, but I meant you. You like direct references, I've noticed, so I'll pull some instances up.
MovingPictures07 wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:07 pm That said, I hesitate to scumread LC. I see your point, dunya, but I'm just not sure it means we're seeing scum!LC here.
Sometimes, when I'm trying to discern someone's motivations, I like to play a little game. I imagine the worst thing they could do, and then see if their actions support that conclusion. In this post, baddie MP applies nice mild buddying, while supporting the point that dunya made and was suspicious of. Further discussion of the topic also matches the profile of a baddie MP who, on one hand he kept the idea of my lynch in people's minds by discussing it a lot, and on the other hand he thought I was town and would say "RIP LC. I thought you were town."
Littlefinger's game is pure tunneling, and if you apply it to mafia you'll be the only townie in a sea of scum. If this is how you're looking at MP, it's no wonder you have a scum read on him.

I've only read up to this post so far, but i'm going to share one thought before I go any further: MP is town on volume alone. Nobody puts up this much fake content so quickly and effortlessly.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#496

Post by Long Con »

Sloonei wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:44 am
Long Con wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:28 pm
Sorry, my friend, but I meant you. You like direct references, I've noticed, so I'll pull some instances up.
MovingPictures07 wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:07 pm That said, I hesitate to scumread LC. I see your point, dunya, but I'm just not sure it means we're seeing scum!LC here.
Sometimes, when I'm trying to discern someone's motivations, I like to play a little game. I imagine the worst thing they could do, and then see if their actions support that conclusion. In this post, baddie MP applies nice mild buddying, while supporting the point that dunya made and was suspicious of. Further discussion of the topic also matches the profile of a baddie MP who, on one hand he kept the idea of my lynch in people's minds by discussing it a lot, and on the other hand he thought I was town and would say "RIP LC. I thought you were town."
Littlefinger's game is pure tunneling, and if you apply it to mafia you'll be the only townie in a sea of scum. If this is how you're looking at MP, it's no wonder you have a scum read on him.

I've only read up to this post so far, but i'm going to share one thought before I go any further: MP is town on volume alone. Nobody puts up this much fake content so quickly and effortlessly.
I would say it is MP's expertise.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#497

Post by Sloonei »

MovingPictures07 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:32 pm
Sloonei wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:19 pm Speedchuck cast an interesting vote that no one is talking about. He voted for Long con to "facilitate an alternate bandwagon" to Bass, despite not having any personal reason to vote for LC. I am leaning toward liking this move. It's a bit bold and suggests that he is not overly concerned with his appearance and any potential scrutiny he might face and, while i don't ever encourage blind bandwagoning, I like that he took a stand which allowed the lynch to remain somewhat more open than if I had just hammered home another vote on the Bass wagon, in absence of a real suspicion to call his own.

Simon and dunya also voted for LC. Dunya's vote was early and she supported herself well. I don't recall seeing Simon explain his vote. Anyone have thoughts on any of these things?
I appreciate you exploring this and I agree with your perspective. I also like speedchuck's recent posts exploring Elo as bad and in general it seems to me he cares about trying to solve the game. I have a town read for speedchuck.

I also believe dunya and Simon are on the level, but I need to explore dunya's content a bit more and I need Simon to post more things.
I am leaning town on dunya, in part because I agree with the notion that she seems to not have BTSC. She's had lots of questions about minor cultural/technical things here, which suggests that We The People are her best resource to go to as she adjusts to playing in a new place, rather than any teammates behind the scenes. It's been a long time since I played with her, and I suppose she could be crafty enough to deliberately leave these sorts of questions in the thread to keep us off her trail, but I'm gonna categorize that as unlikely at this stage.

I've never played with Simon before and don't know what to expect when reading his posts. And like I said before, I don't really remember seeing his reasoning for voting Long Con, so I can only really shrug at his vote right now. I'd ask if you have any specific thoughts on him, but I assume I'll get my answer before I finish catching up.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#498

Post by Sloonei »

Long Con wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:52 am
Sloonei wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:44 am
Long Con wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:28 pm
Sorry, my friend, but I meant you. You like direct references, I've noticed, so I'll pull some instances up.
MovingPictures07 wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:07 pm That said, I hesitate to scumread LC. I see your point, dunya, but I'm just not sure it means we're seeing scum!LC here.
Sometimes, when I'm trying to discern someone's motivations, I like to play a little game. I imagine the worst thing they could do, and then see if their actions support that conclusion. In this post, baddie MP applies nice mild buddying, while supporting the point that dunya made and was suspicious of. Further discussion of the topic also matches the profile of a baddie MP who, on one hand he kept the idea of my lynch in people's minds by discussing it a lot, and on the other hand he thought I was town and would say "RIP LC. I thought you were town."
Littlefinger's game is pure tunneling, and if you apply it to mafia you'll be the only townie in a sea of scum. If this is how you're looking at MP, it's no wonder you have a scum read on him.

I've only read up to this post so far, but i'm going to share one thought before I go any further: MP is town on volume alone. Nobody puts up this much fake content so quickly and effortlessly.
I would say it is MP's expertise.
As someone coming from the same area of expertise, I'd say that this level of intensity is nearly impossible to fake.
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#499

Post by Sloonei »

malakim2099 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:54 pm Well, unlike most of the Internet, I will admit when I was wrong. After taking the time to go through and read the first two pages, I don't mind MP that much. Maybe that will change (as I haven't hit the meat of the final hours yet), but I'm rethinking some assumptions I made on skimming things. Will keep posting every 2-3 pages of reading so I can articulate thoughts so far (since otherwise people might think I fell asleep or something.)

Simon's comment of "people voting for their role in Day 0" just seems weird to me. I don't like that. It almost feels like some fishing. I know that we can't claim/hint in thread, why would people do that in a poll?

Also not feeling the Sloonei hate in Day 1. Yeah, Dhalsim being an alien is a goofy statement, and you get hate on Day 0 for that. Getting votes and nearly being booted just for that? That feels bad to me. Though I do wish that the votes tracked better during the day phase since they could be changed.

But after going to this point, since we're guaranteed a departure every day-phase with a plurality... D1, I think going for an inactive isn't a bad idea. Normally on HCRealms rules I dislike it, but here, I can see it working.
My self-centeredness has lead me to an observation here. Malakim, you note that it's ridiculous for me to get votes for my "goofy" statement about Dhalsim on Day 0 and, while I appreciate the support, it's not true that I received votes for this. Speedchuck voted me for what amounted to no reason, and Jay and diiny voted for me for perceived meta reasons. None of those people argued that my Dhalsim comment was a reason for suspicion. Really, nobody has done that at any point in this game.

Jay voted for me and suggested I could have used that line of questioning to kick off the game. I took it as a plain and simple pressure vote and was surprised that it stayed on my til the end of the day. I would have been more concerned if he didn't throw a vote my way at any point on Day 1 (he almost always does), I'm just not used to having it stay there. Seeing as he's now had to duck out for a replacement (that can happen?), it is less concerning to me, but I still can't put him (or his spot in the game) as anything better than a neutral read right now. I thought his line of questioning against me was fair and right up Jay's alley, but that's not saying much for him and he was unable to follow up on anything in any meaningful way.

Diiny voted for me and cited a past scum game we played together as his basis. I asked a follow-up question at the time but I don't recall him answering it. Hey [mention]Diiny[/mention], how am I playing now?
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Sloonei
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Re: Street Fighter II Mafia [Round 1]

#500

Post by Sloonei »

malakim2099 wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:52 pm Okay, caught up! Read a lot deeper here, and these are my impressions, based on what I've read.

Diiny - I liked his vote for Sloonei, and I liked his bulldogging around on D1. Pretty sure he's a townie or civ or whatever you call them here.

MP - Actually, in retrospect, I take back what I was saying about him. Reading it closer, the posts appear pretty well reasoned (or are meant to look reasoned, but then that's the I know that you know that I know that you know game). Overall, scaling back the suspicious thoughts of him. Pretty sure he's townie/civ too. I do appreciate the elaboration that yes, this is his normal play.

JoH - Fairly confident in his play here, but it's different than his Realms play to a degree.

Sloonei -Seemed to keep it low-key despite the pressure he was under, which this early seems to be civ-ish to me.

Elochin - Having trouble getting a read. She was helpful, but then that's a great way to seem civ-ish too.

Long Con - I don't know if this is a thing, but I know I've gotten really defensive when accused early in a game when I was a scummer elsewhere. And... well, I'm not familiar with the player. But it feels like he's reacting the way I did in those situations, which makes me feel a little twitchy.

Simon - Considering LC had enough on him to merit a vote, I don't like Simon's fixation on the poll and E Honda-hating D0 to vote for LC. Especially when there was the split between Sloonei or Bass, and this feels like a random vote when you could go one way or the other.

Anyway, that's the general impressions I have so far after taking the time to take a deep read. I need to figure out multiquoting on here, or do you just do it the old-fashioned way with lots of copy/pasta?
A couple more questions, malakim! We've never played together before, so I am intrigued and want to pick your brain. You note that JoH's play here was "different" from his more familiar style on your homesite. Even though he's dead now, could you explain what this means? What differences did you perceive in his gameplay on Day 1?

You also say that Eloh has been "helpful" but then you waffle and turn your whole read into what amounts to a shrug. It doesn't seem like there is much of a read here, really. Could you point to specific examples of Eloh being "helpful" or any moments that give you any doubts about her?
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