The Search for Quin [END]

[Spacedaisy]

You feel that convinced I am wrong about MP? Why?

[sanmateo]

most people are town, you can expect any given player to have more town reads than scum reads. you're also overlooking his speedchuck vote right? that's the strongest of scum reads

[Spacedaisy]

I do expect more town reads, but I feel like it is unlike MP to not have some kind of strong feeling about someone. And I find his two bad reads to be slippery reads, for lack of a better way to say this.

[Spacedaisy]

I apparently missed his speedchuck baddie read because I don't recall that one...

[Spacedaisy]

I just looked back and I think I don't understand what he was saying.

[DrWilgy]

I don't think you want him to be civilian

[Tangrowth]

I'm here now, though I'm under a lot of stress due to a deadline in about 48 hours, so... probably shouldn't spend that much time here but knowing my tendencies I probably will.

[Spacedaisy]

Please explain? You think I want him to be bad? Like biased because of... what?

linki: I won't let him. But I also won't lynch him without giving the idea I might be wrong a fair shake.

[Tangrowth]

Long Con is accusing Epi of the same thing I argued for last night; he is deliberately misconstruing facts to fit his argument. If this is a legitimate accusation then it is not a good look for Epi. However, I did not necessarily feel that he was doing it in a sinister way against me last night (though his underwhelming response doesn't inspire much confidence), and I also still do not have enough trust in Long Con to side with him definitively in their back and forth. Also, sanmateo presented a similar, though less extreme, interpretation of my behavior as Epi did last night, so it's possible I've come off a bit shadier than I believe.

Does anybody else get the sense that Epi is being intentionally deceptive in his arguments?

I haven't gotten that impression at all, but that's just me.

[Tangrowth]

How is it manipulative? Is there something untrue in it? I'm looking at it right now and it's a direct accounting of what happened.

And yet you have no problem with this entirely made-up post:

The past three or four times you have been bad, you've done this very thing: Manufacturing a narrative for my actions or reactions that isn't true.

I made the mistake of waving that off once or twice, citing recency bias to myself. Surely LC wouldn't keep doing the same things over and over when he is bad.

Now it's a pattern. This is just what you do when you are bad.

I said it gave me this feeling, because of the jester-y way you were accusing Epi. Not that ou are actually lying.

As for the fake news thing, without actually doing research, I find it more likely that Epi would be mistaken about your previous game history, because those things are easy to remember wrong, than blatabtly fake meta evidence that would get him lynched for it.

What do you mean by jester-y here? You lost me, sorry.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

A reads/preliminary rainbow list for me right now would look something like this:

Moderate Town -- would NOT vote
birdwithteeth11
Epignosis
sanmateo

Slight Town -- would NOT vote
speedchuck

==================================================

Neutral-- would potentially vote
Dom
Dragon D. Luffy
DrWilgy
NewTraditionalist
nutella
Serge
Spacedaisy

Slight Mafia-- would potentially vote
Long Con
Sloonei

Players are not ranked within groups, only across groups.

Generally I prefer to stick to POE and usually don't feel comfortable making any firm mafia reads at this stage, but despite being hesitant because I do feel LC is a player who can get himself into trouble early on, I'm relatively convinced by Epi's pursuit of LC and would call him a sole slight mafia read. I also am a bit wary of Sloonei; perhaps it's a bit leftover shock still from Street Fighter, but without taking an in-depth look at his ISO I'm not sure I buy Sloonei's attempts to start discussion to be genuine. Specifically, he doesn't seem that interested in actually developing reads and seems a bit too hoppy. But those are just general impressions and maybe I'm being overly paranoid of him.

As for my neutrals, well, I'm not sure how to sort Wilgy or DDL yet. Everyone else has been too quiet or essentially nonexistent, which is disconcerting. Hopefully we hear from them before the deadline.

I'm going to be pretty busy tomorrow, so my activity will be less than ideal. I'll be here in the hour or two leading to EoD though at a minimum; I think I can set aside that time at least.

Weird, Sloonei is givig me strong town vibes. But I guess thats my default reaction to those Jay-type posters who analyse everything. I think Ill spend the game rradig him as civ yet being paranoid about it.

Wilgy made one post (dont remember which) that looked uber civ. But the last time that happened he was bad. So I dunno what to think.

I don't understand this; please elaborate. I don't understand how you have a town read of Sloonei in this game.

[Tangrowth]

Thoughts from catching up -

I'm torn on LC. Epi's references to other games are somewhat compelling; I was in those games and thus am fully aware of why Epi feels the way he does about LC, but I'm not necessarily convinced that he has to be right. Players don't always fulfill the patterns you expect across alignments. LC's reactions (especially the one after my post) were pretty over-the-top though and I can definitely see him being a caught baddie here.

At the same time, I'm torn on BWT as well. The circumstances of his info claim and its apparent misguidedness are intriguing, but I grant that it seems unlikely he would claim bad info openly if bad, so it's more likely it was just misguided/misleading false info. But his over-eager "let's all lynch LC" post was very suspicious. I've been considering voting for him but MP's post here rings pretty true to me and I'm inclined to trust his read:

BWT is being indecisive as fuck. That means he's town. If he was bad, he would force consistency.

I might look into joining Sloonei in a DDL vote; I'll look back at DDL next. Not feeling MP's and Epi's suspicion of Sloonei; I'm seeing town behavior.

Nutella is sitting on the fence so hard Im afraid she might hurt herself.

I actually feel OK about nutella in that post. "Fence sitting" is a pretty common accusation against her regardless of alignment, but from my vague recollection I'd say it's even more common when she's town.

[Tangrowth]

Alright, switching my vote to @NewTraditionalist because the fact that this guy hasn't come to play with us yet is perhaps most disconcerting of all!

Seriously man, what do you think of all this stuff that's been said? I know it's probably tough to acquaint yourself with a bunch of content in your first online game ever, but I know you have it in you to bring some serious insight. What you got?

At this point of the day, this is as useless a vote as someone could possibly make. No one will lynch NT and the probability of him showing up in this short timeframe is nearly zero so if youre bad you have gotted rid of your responsibility to vote in an easy way.

NT is just as likely to be town or scum as anyone else. How is this useless? I'm generating discussion. Someone has to help get him involved in the game somehow; I know him IRL and thought I was suited to do so.

[Tangrowth]

About Epi: I cant read him to save myself. The way he is playing (tunneling on people for arbitrary reasons) is his MO regardlessly of alignment.

Im also skimming most of his argument with LC tbh.

He goes straight to my big neutral pile.

I wanna vote for one of MP, Nutella or LC.

Tell me about MP. I was just going to say that I want him and Epi to be discussed most of all right now. Epi for the reasons I highlighteated earlier, and MP because his reads seemed almost labored, if that's fair to say. He mostly seemed to just make passing observations at the level of activity of certain players without much intuitive or dynamic responses to events of the thread. I find the brief flare up between MP & Daisy to be particularly intriguing, though I'm not sure what to read into it yet. But any time two players who know each as closely as those two know each other are involved in something like that, it's worth taking note of.
It seems to me like Daisy took offense in MP's vote or saw something she did not like. It would he good to hear her follow-up thoughts on that whole episode. @Spacedaisy

Labored? Have you not met me before?

[Epignosis]

Ooookay. I have read everything.

1. Long Con vs. Epi... reading this same basic argument every freaking game you guys play together can be summed up as follows:

If only people will come to the light and tell him how wrong he is about Mass Effect, we would all have a merry Christmas.

[Tangrowth]

I don't actually want to lynch DDL today and he's shared a good amount of thoughts for now. So I'm moving my vote to Epignosis.

What constitutes a "good amount" of thoughts, and why specifically would such a quantity of posts mean DDL is an undesirable lynch?

[Tangrowth]

Howdy, all. Delurking to encourage MP (and anyone on the fence) to vote anyone but me. I don't know all of the jargon yet so I'm not really sure where to vote but a vote for me is a vote to kill an honest man.

Throw a read at me. What you got? I know we're all new and the format and volume of posts thus far are likely intimidating, but everyone has to start somewhere. Do you have any thoughts on any player as you've read some stuff?

[Tangrowth]

The one thing I would note is that Dom hasn't really said anything either, so why poke Spacedaisy and then a newcomer?

Spoiler: show

The timing of MP's "pressure vote" and Spacedaisy's reaction looks somewhat suspicious to me. Eleven minutes after MP posts, Spacedaisy reacts to it and puts a vote on MP.

I'm voting for @Spacedaisy because I want her to say things and she makes me nervous when she isn't posting.

If this came from anyone else I could excuse it, but this guy right here knows that I have barely been on the site in the last few days. He knows that I am juggling multiple writing projects in addition to two games. He knows I've been exhausted and slept a lot more than normal. So tell me why this guy says me being quiet is shady. No, I'm not buying this.

*votes MP*

Note that this is only her second post of the game. Her first was:

I'm here. I swear I am. Ok, maybe I just showed up. Maybe I haven't read anything yet. Maybe...

I am going to get a shower and then catch up.

There is roughly an eleven hour difference between the two posts. By my count, there were 52 posts between Spacedaisy's first and second posts, several of them quite meaty.

Here is my concern: Of all those 52 posts in just 11 minutes, how did Spacedaisy react to MP's harmless vote so quickly? It almost looks like she knew to respond to it- a fabricated, planned interaction between the two.

I try to get a read as soon as possible on Daisy; I also want NT to be involved, as I know he has the potential to be a great player and an incredible asset once he acclimates to the format. I hadn't gotten to Dom, but frankly you all probably don't want my opinion of him anyway seeing as though I'm apparently cursed to always be wrong. Wait, actually, maybe you do, then you can just do the opposite.

[Epignosis]

MP, has Spacedaisy ever lynched you incorrectly when you were both civilians?

[Tangrowth]

About Epi: I cant read him to save myself. The way he is playing (tunneling on people for arbitrary reasons) is his MO regardlessly of alignment.

Im also skimming most of his argument with LC tbh.

He goes straight to my big neutral pile.

I wanna vote for one of MP, Nutella or LC.

Tell me about MP. I was just going to say that I want him and Epi to be discussed most of all right now. Epi for the reasons I highlighteated earlier, and MP because his reads seemed almost labored, if that's fair to say. He mostly seemed to just make passing observations at the level of activity of certain players without much intuitive or dynamic responses to events of the thread. I find the brief flare up between MP & Daisy to be particularly intriguing, though I'm not sure what to read into it yet. But any time two players who know each as closely as those two know each other are involved in something like that, it's worth taking note of.
It seems to me like Daisy took offense in MP's vote or saw something she did not like. It would he good to hear her follow-up thoughts on that whole episode. @Spacedaisy

Not more than what I already gave. Also at the risk of parroting them, seeing MP and Daisy poke each other makes me feel sus, because couples tend to be really good at reading each other from what Ive seen. My money is on one of them being bad.

I don't like this post; you're setting up a false dichotomy where one of me and Daisy is likely bad based on little reason: my vote of her was a pressure vote and hers was a reaction.

[Tangrowth]

Howdy, all. Delurking to encourage MP (and anyone on the fence) to vote anyone but me. I don't know all of the jargon yet so I'm not really sure where to vote but a vote for me is a vote to kill an honest man.

This is a lie.

Here's a vote.

LOL, this is great.

[Tangrowth]

I'm curious: Where do you come from, @NewTraditionalist ?

Epi, do you still suspect me? Ever gonna follow through and elaborate why?

I feel like the day is going in circles, and I don't like that. Votes are spread, and I don't like that. I don't have anything with me to eat, and I don't like that.

Worst of all, though, I don't really have any town reads. This never happens. I usually just bandwagon on with a townie for the wins. Uhhhh.... Leaning toward voting Epi or LC, for info and thread-clearing clarify and decent odds that one of them are scum.

OK, now for this post. I had been skimming the thread to stay relatively caught up, and this particular post struck me as false, especially the bolded/underlined line. So I quickly dug into speedchuck's ISO and found multiple instances of him naming town reads. I also got the impression he's been shifting his opinions around with little support; add in the fact here that he's trying to throw around blame for the day going around in circles when his votes/thoughts have done that just as much as if not more than anyone else is suspect. I don't like it.

[Spacedaisy]

Epi, I don't know if I have been or not. But it is certainly always possible I'm wrong about him. my suspicion of him should by no means be taken as foolproof evidence.

[Tangrowth]

i'm looking at this mp bandwagon and it just looks like bullshit. if he's scum spacedaisy is probably scum as well but it's not exactly a solid vote. wilgy's vote could literally mean anything. and ddl has once again gone on a bandwagon, i understand that he's sequestered meeting family, friends and loved ones and he can't yell at strangers online (aka the best thing in the world) or whatever, but am i going insane? he's done this twice

I'm not sure what to make of DDL's bandwagoning myself. I have some beefs with his conclusions, but I'm not yet convinced they make him bad. I need to hear more from him.

[Epignosis]

Epi, I don't know if I have been or not. But it is certainly always possible I'm wrong about him. my suspicion of him should by no means be taken as foolproof evidence.

I would never take it that way. I only wondered if it's ever happened before. Eloh has never lynched me incorrectly (or at all, I don't think).

[Tangrowth]

Ooookay. I have read everything.

1. Long Con vs. Epi... reading this same basic argument every freaking game you guys play together can be summed up as follows:

Gut reaction to it is that Epi's initial comment regarding LC seemed flimsy. LC's actions after that, in particular his late claim that it was a joke seem even flimsier. Also Epi's meta case is the same basic thing he has made against LC in every game I have played with the both of them. So I am over reading these two. I don't know who is good or who is bad. One, neither, hell maybe even both. I'm just done with that. Neither one is likely to convince me of the other being bad. if I become convinced one of them is bad it will likely be because of some other action or something unrelated because I think it's all just a big rivalry now. One I don't care about. Enjoy your pissing contest boys. I'm out on that one.

2. MP, sorry but my vote is remaining where it is. I think you are bad after I have read everything. Here is why. My gut reaction to you was why does it make you nervous I'm quiet when you know for a fact i have not even read the thread? Your post seemed questionable. I backed off because yes, you did say you wanted me to say things. But when I read the thread I got this feeling that you are mostly town reading folks. Me, Epi, speedchuck, bwt, etc. The few you have baddie read are Sloonei, who you are clearly giving a very soft baddie read to, and LC who has the most attention of anyone so far. The easy choice. I know you can't devote the time you would have in the past, but gut reading doesn't take time, only cutting back on your infamous walls of text. And the thing with describing bwt's meta. First you declare him good, then you say only a post or two later you can't read him. My dear, I believe you are bad. And my vote is not moving.

No one else has made any real good or bad impact on me. uh, wait except speedchuck. This is a gut read I can't explain well but I am feeling town there.

if I am right about MP, I would say either Sloonei or LC is his baddie teammate. If I'm wrong... I don't even know.

Wow, can't believe you're wrong about me. That means you're either bad trying to get me mislynched or just a townie wrong about me. I guess I lean more towards the latter at the moment.

[Tangrowth]

I didn't pay attention to where he voted until you asked. He moves it so much with his pressure votes, until he votes for real I don't think much of it. It's meaningless. It wasn't even his vote for me that got me suspicious it was what he said by way of explanation.

Why do you suspect speedchuck? I see your vote is on him too? Perhaps I need to ISO him and reconsider how I am feeling, I don't know. I'm open to hearing a case though.

To make it clear, I actively suspect speedchuck. I'd say there's suspicious activity in his ISO, but I need other people's opinions of him.

[Tangrowth]

i feel pretty dumb trying to keep track of who moves their votes and when

It's important.

It's not mandatory, but if everyone can please indicate when they vote or move a vote in the thread somehow simultaneously, that'd be appreciated.

[Tangrowth]

Daisy is wrong about me and Wilgy is right? What the hell? What universe is this?

[Tangrowth]

I do expect more town reads, but I feel like it is unlike MP to not have some kind of strong feeling about someone. And I find his two bad reads to be slippery reads, for lack of a better way to say this.

Did you not just facilitate Speed Fighter? I didn't even truly have a slight mafia read in that game until after Day 1 was over.

I'm generally a mess, especially early on, and I've made efforts to restrain "dogpee" MP as much as I can until I really find an inconsistency that I feel isn't just me tunneling aimlessly. Maybe we just haven't played together in a while and my style has changed more than I realize.

What do you mean by slippery reads? You lost me.

[Tangrowth]

I just looked back and I think I don't understand what he was saying.

It is unclear how speedchuck is changing his reads. He says he has no town reads, but earlier in the game he had clearly stated town reads in Epi, Sloonei, and (perhaps) sanmateo. What alarms me further is that speedchuck is saying he doesn't like how all over the place the thread is (but he's worse than almost anyone else in that regard, at least from what I saw) AND he says he wants to vote for either LC or Epi "for information" when he clearly was defending Epi as a town read earlier. I found no substantiated reason for his change of mind.

I therefore believe that he is likely fabricating his reads.

[Spacedaisy]

I explained it earlier. Like sloonei you really seemed to make it a soft baddie read. And LC was the leading suspect, getting most of the talk. He was the easy target.

Arg, I'm really questioning this now. More because of Wilgy... which is probably the first time that has ever happened.

Linki: Alright between you and Wilgy, I'll give you the botd and vote speedchuck.

[Tangrowth]

MP, has Spacedaisy ever lynched you incorrectly when you were both civilians?

Not that I can think of, which is why I'm surprised by this. I'm even more surprised because I can't recall her mislynching me on purpose where I was town and she was bad because instead she usually just buddies me to oblivion (Lost Again comes to mind... yet again).

There may be an example, but I can't think of it. She has perhaps the best track record of me than anyone, except maybe BWT who I don't think has ever been wrong about me either.

[Tangrowth]

I explained it earlier. Like sloonei you really seemed to make it a soft baddie read. And LC was the leading suspect, getting most of the talk. He was the easy target.

Arg, I'm really questioning this now. More because of Wilgy... which is probably the first time that has ever happened.

Linki: Alright between you and Wilgy, I'll give you the botd and vote speedchuck.

I explained this to Sloonei at the time, but I didn't even suspect him going into that post, but thinking about him got me suspecting him just a bit for reasons I tried to express. I do think the points made against LC were convincing to an extent as well, yeah.

I appreciate that, but I'd much prefer you to take even a quick look at speedchuck's ISO yourself and see if you feel similarly or differently than me. Maybe I'm flat out wrong. Don't just follow me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Attention:

Due to unforeseen (but unsurprising these days) time constraints, I am going to have to end Day 1 15 minutes early. The only alternative is to wait hours and hours after the deadline, and that'll throw everything off. The new deadline is now 8:45pm EST, 15 minutes prior to the deadline stated in the poll. That is in just over 45 minutes. I will screenshot the poll at 8:45, all votes occurring after that moment will be void.

[Tangrowth]

New rainbow:

Moderate Town -- would NOT vote
Epignosis
sanmateo

Slight Town -- would NOT vote
birdwithteeth11
DrWilgy
nutella
Spacedaisy

==================================================

Neutral-- would potentially vote
Dom
Dragon D. Luffy
NewTraditionalist
Serge

Slight Mafia-- would potentially vote
Long Con
Sloonei

Moderate Mafia-- would prefer to lynch
speedchuck

[birdwithteeth11]

Alright. Glad I made it in time. Especially since I thought the poll ended at 8PM EST. Going to try and catch up and post some in the next hour.

Linki: Okay, make that 45 minutes.

[Tangrowth]

Alright. Glad I made it in time. Especially since I thought the poll ended at 8PM EST. Going to try and catch up and post some in the next hour.

Linki: Okay, make that 45 minutes.

Looking forward to your thoughts. Just throw out as many reads as you can; in fact, if you wouldn't mind making a rainbow, that'd be great. Then we can compare.

[birdwithteeth11]

I might look into joining Sloonei in a DDL vote; I'll look back at DDL next. Not feeling MP's and Epi's suspicion of Sloonei; I'm seeing town behavior.

What do you see from sloonei that strikes you as civ behavior? I see a guy that made claims of a "bandwagon" against someone (LC) and used that to throw shade on someone else who made a bold, gutsy move early in an attempt to see what direction it made the winds blow (me).

Do you feel my suspicion against you is or was unwarranted?

I mean, I'm biased and disagree with it. But I also understand why I would take some flak for what I did for N0. I've already explained my reasoning for why I did it so I won't repeat it again. Whether you take it or leave it is up to you.

But that wasn't the reason I expressed suspicion of you.

Then what was? Because I thought that was why you expressed your suspicion.

Linki: I mean, I can tell you how I feel about certain players at least. Not sure if I'll do a rainbow or not.

[Tangrowth]

Then what was? Because I thought that was why you expressed your suspicion.

Linki: I mean, I can tell you how I feel about certain players at least. Not sure if I'll do a rainbow or not.

However you want to express your reads is fine with me, just curious where your head is at re: whom you read as town and mafia and how strongly/weakly because I'm not quite sure at the moment.

[birdwithteeth11]

I don't know why I am even bothering to do this. I'm sure it's a serious personality flaw that I have that I'm compelled to do this.

I'll try to keep this brief.

Spoiler: show

In Mass Effect, an evil independent LC kept calling me nervous. We've had this argument since, but I maintain that I was not nervous, but rather was gleeful that my little scheme to out a member of the mafia was working.

Yes, he'll remind you that I wasn't a civilian (True: I was at the time a neutral who could eventually side with either good or bad) and that he wasn't mafia (True, but he was last man standing, which is a role civilians need dead to win, and is therefore "bad").

My point is that LC framed my posts in such a way that supported his narrative (to get me lynched) rather than one to help the civilians (to get mafia lynched).

No.

Here's what happened, not what Epi's specially selected words choose to tell you. Epi was a complicated Indy who could go either way, and he had a fakeclaim from the host to use. He tells the thread his fakeclaim on Day 2, which I find weird. It made me suspect he was bad, and using a fakeclaim. He wants to spin it like I was some "evil independent" but what do you think my strategy was? Frame someone? I didn't have a team to work with, or for, what I needed was some level of credibility. I was trying to find baddies in as genuine a way as if I were a Civilian.

If you see similarities between that game and this one, then that makes sense enough to me, because my goal was to find baddies in both. In Mass Effect, I was right to go after Epignosis because he, as predicted, joined the baddies. Listen to me again for the first time, here in this game, maybe I'm right again.

Spoiler: show

In Blue Velvet, LC was bad, I was good, and we had a back and forth on Mass Effect. Here is LC's big, misleading post about me.

That was an awesome meta case, thanks for linking it. It has no similarities to this game though. It seems you just brought it up because it's an instance where I made a case against you... that doesn't really make the cut for doing anything to prove your point here.

Spoiler: show

In Night Vale, Long Con and I were both bad- teammates even. What does he resort to?

I look nervous to you, LC?

The line I referenced looks like textbook nervousness... it's not a general thing with all your posts or anything, but come on - you read that line and tell me I'm wrong.

I recall seeing this and rolling my eyes. "Not this 'nervous' bullshit again. Were I not on LC's team, I would have crucified him for it.

FALSE. This is a bogus entry, because I wasn't in any way making a case on Jack. I was laughing at how his post read to me. Try this link to see THE ENTIRETY of the exchange. As in, I wasn't pursuing it as any form of case at all. Epi's attempt to make you believe otherwise is deception.

Long Con's evil M.O. when he is bad is to cavalierly control the narrative to the point of outright making things up and sticking to them even when proof is presented to the contrary. He would make an admirable politician.

Where has that even happened in this game? What proof? What are you talking about?

I'm really disappointed in the players who praised this case as a good one. It doesn't make sense, and proving that didn't take a lot of reading through the links.

That's why I don't buy for a second his insistence that what he has been trying to sell as a joke was a joke.

Despite evidence to the contrary.

I've learned a long time ago to never look at previous game history to judge someone's actions in a current game. I feel like there's too much subjective data involved, as well as the fact that an individual could (hypothetically) play a slightly different style from game to game. So you quoting past history makes me feel slightly worse about you because I just don't think it's a very good argument/defense.

[Tangrowth]

Epi, what do you think? What are your current reads now?

[birdwithteeth11]

The meta BWT stuff has only moved him up to a null read for me. I'm not buying that he is town just because of the N0 info lie thing. That won't cut it for me. I can see either motive for it.

Walk me through either motive that you can see.

Event: BWT lies about having info on night one. That's literally all that happened.

Town motive: Give people something to talk about, get discussion going, etc. Doesn't mind having any suspicions thrown his way over it, after all, it is night zero, and this is purely a mechanical bit that will make him look good for being bold. A better lynch might come out of the discussion.

Scum motive: Give people something to talk about, get discussion going, etc. Doesn't mind having any suspicions thrown his way over it, after all, it is night zero, and this is purely a mechanical bit that will make him look good for being bold. A different lynch might come out of the discussion.



Scum likes people to talk, make cases, and get to the lynchy bits. So long as scum it's getting lynched. I see nothing alignment indicative here. Along with the meta-read of BWT just ruining my case on him, I've placed him at null.

We must have played in different mafia universes. I have never seen scum want to make people talk that often. Usually they want to sow the seeds of chaos to keep people confused and unable to find grounding.

Not seeing the logic of this train of thought here.

[birdwithteeth11]

Long Con is accusing Epi of the same thing I argued for last night; he is deliberately misconstruing facts to fit his argument. If this is a legitimate accusation then it is not a good look for Epi. However, I did not necessarily feel that he was doing it in a sinister way against me last night (though his underwhelming response doesn't inspire much confidence), and I also still do not have enough trust in Long Con to side with him definitively in their back and forth. Also, sanmateo presented a similar, though less extreme, interpretation of my behavior as Epi did last night, so it's possible I've come off a bit shadier than I believe.

Does anybody else get the sense that Epi is being intentionally deceptive in his arguments?

I mean, it's certainly possible. I just have such a hard time reading LC that it still makes me lean more towards it being a civ vs. civ duke-out here. I'm slightly suspicious of both of them, but I'm starting to feel like it's not enough to warrant a D1 vote.

[Epignosis]

Daisy is wrong about me and Wilgy is right? What the hell? What universe is this?

Was there a game on here in which you and Spacedaisy were teammates?

[Epignosis]

"dogpee" MP

Already been done.

[Tangrowth]

Daisy is wrong about me and Wilgy is right? What the hell? What universe is this?

Was there a game on here in which you and Spacedaisy were teammates?

On here? Hmm...

I can only think of one: Romance of the Three Kingdoms. But I'm not sure how much that counts considering how nonexistent we both were due to moving apartments and me studying for comps.

I can't recall any others.

[Epignosis]

I just looked back and I think I don't understand what he was saying.

It is unclear how speedchuck is changing his reads. He says he has no town reads, but earlier in the game he had clearly stated town reads in Epi, Sloonei, and (perhaps) sanmateo. What alarms me further is that speedchuck is saying he doesn't like how all over the place the thread is (but he's worse than almost anyone else in that regard, at least from what I saw) AND he says he wants to vote for either LC or Epi "for information" when he clearly was defending Epi as a town read earlier. I found no substantiated reason for his change of mind.

I therefore believe that he is likely fabricating his reads.

My problem with this is that speedchuck is quite careful and a devious kind.

Do you think he'd forget he said I was good and then call me bad later?

I don't.

[DrWilgy]

Hey Epi, whats on the fprefront pf your mind rn? It doesn't have to be game related.

[Tangrowth]

"dogpee" MP

Already been done.