Mountain Mafia [END]

[Kylemii]

but then marmots decision to specify that day one lynch ties would result in a no lynch would seem really out of place

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Yeah I get it.

It gets to the point where whatever mechanical explanation for her being bad is so unlikely, that even if you read her as bad based on posts you should assume it's more likely that your person reading skills are off.

[speedchuck]

I'm back. Anything new at all?

[mention]dunya[/mention] Thanks, pretty much better now.

[speedchuck]

I think the sloon kill on this particular night should make you all reconsider lynching me. One of you said something like...eloh must be mafia "by process of elimination.". Are y'all really satisfied with that kind of lynch at this point? So...here we are... reasons for lynching eloh....
1) she is a busy gal and therefore does not participate intensely
2) her rainbow list on day one was odd
3) looking at the other players, she has to be bad by process of eliminatihon.



Seriously? You can't find anyone else with better reasons?

1) You have 202 posts. What are you talking about?
2) I don't care about your rainbow list.
3) Not really. POE implies townfirms or really, really strong townreads. I have 1 of those left alive, and I have me.

These are not the reasons that I was calling for your lynch.

[Kylemii]

killing someone and then being the first one to point out that they must have been killed to frame you is a bad look

[speedchuck]

@Long Con Lost Again 3 comes to mind. But whatever man. I don't feel the need to prove I can play a good scum game. Especially given the fact that I am not scum in this game.

That's exactly what Scumdaisy would say.

Since DrWilgy is here (hi! *wave)
Can you please elaborate more on this specifically as I have a mixed read on Daisy so far. I have never played with ScumDaisy before.

Nothing. I'm terrible at reading Daisy.

Um...this post screams scum, wilgy.
Still reading...

Interesting. This is based on what?

Quick comment regarding the GTH exercise.

For everyokne that GTH'd me good. Why do you think I'm good? Under what scenarios do you find that I'm scummy? Would you say that you are mpre of a player that finds people innocent until proven guilty or guilty until proven innocent?

@elochin I'm still curious as to why you stated my comment about being able to read Daisy stuck out to you as scummy before my further explanation. What about that comment caused a scum read? Am I not allowed to be bad at reading someone?

@JoH, I'll get back to you. I've come to a point where I'm aware of my tunneling and I need to review others before I continue to bark at you. What I find interesting outside of our back and forth is your baddie read of me. What prompted this read exactly?

I am currently debating a vote for either Eloh or Kyle. Somebody talk to me about these people.

Talk to me.

Something about Eloh had held me ealier. She had stated that my exclamation about not being able to read Daisy felt super scummy, but immediately backed off. I couldn't tell if what I was saying was an actual scum tell of hers that I triggered or if she was looking for things to call scummy and pulled the trigger too soon. Did you read this? I kimda forgot until now.

Kyle... Kyle. I haven't interacted with Kyle directly I dont think. What has you mumbling is name late at night?

Elohcin -
Civ due to interactions with J3. While not a negative voting record I so far have had no harsh qualms with the results of her votes.
Bad due to interactions with me that I noticed earlier in the game. Eloh was playing catch up (like someone else who I won't mention) and had called me scummy for a single sentence regarding daisy. It stuck with me and still does.

Above is every post of Wilgy's that talks about Eloh.


REASON NUMBER #1 WHY I AM VOTING ELOH:

Look at this exchange. There has been only one meaningful interaction between the two all game. Eloh calls Wilgy scummy in a passive way. Apparently (I haven't ISO'd Eloh) she never came back and fleshed that out. Wilgy keeps bringing it up to keep the distance and include Eloh in his posts, but their interaction never goes anywhere.
Feels bad man.
Feels like distancing.
Feels awkward.
Feels like avoidance.
Feels like teammates.

Eloh, I'm voting you based on interactions with the scumfirms, even just from their side of things. I think you've played well this game, put in a lot of effort. I don't think I can narrow things down to POE yet, and I will never base an entire late game read on a D1 rainbow.

Even before Wilgy flipped, after I ISO'd him, I says to myself, I says "If wilgy is bad, Eloh is his teammate." When dunya tried to cinvince me to switch to Eloh, I said I was more sure on Wilgy but thought that Eloh and Wilgy were likely w/w, if Wilgy is scum. That still holds.

[Kylemii]

killing someone and then being the first one to point out that they must have been killed to frame you is a bad look

at the very least wait for someone else to bring it up

[speedchuck]

REASON NUMBER #2 FOR ELOHVOTE:

JJJ made a case on her.

JJJ isn't one to do things halfway. When he distances, he REALLY distances. Look at his condemnation of Wilgy. JJJ expected this to work, I believe. I completely believe he would have done the same to Eloh. And I believe he would have done the same to the lurkers. JJJ is hardcore.

I can't help but feel like Eloh and Wilgy were treated similarly by JJJ, but I can ISO JJJ and confirm. Maybe I'll get a reason number 3.

[dunya]

@Elochin

here's my reasons for voting you out

Well, using my no-empathy rule, I'm going to be keeping my vote on Eloh and think she's really been trying to fly under our radars. She's not only been actively been sidelining, she has made so few cases on her own on anyone at all. I find that hard to believe in a thread of this size she doesn't have varying leads of her own in any capacity. It's all agreeing or seeing what someone else has said. That's honestly not helpful. Her reads have been all over the place for total weaksauce reasons. That rainbow she made Day 2 contradicted everything else she was saying.

I remember her other "active" townie game (I call active because she had more than 100 posts there and here), she was more intuitive and someone with opinions. Did she agree with various cases? Sure. But she also made her own observations. I can't see any original observations here. I can't see any contradicting observations either. She's followed the majority in every phase. She's been "catching up" every day. She was very strong to defend Epi, and I mentioned this before, but that was literally the only strong defense or opinion she's had in this whole game. But then when Long Con was stringing her on his theory, she flips on Epi even! This is like a few hours difference.

Spoiler: show

I want to hear more of what LC has to say because he has my ear

That's the opposite of how most people in the thread feel, I think. On any particular subject? Surely not about Epignosis.

Elohcin: ok, I think I have a different way of explaining it.

Quin thought Epi was buddying mesk and bob. In order for him to be right, that Epi is a baddie doing some buddying, he is assuming that mesk and bob are Civ. Are you with me on that?

I'm following.

But what if epi is bad and and either mesk or bob is as well. He he is buddying both -one teammate and one civ. That could be possible as well. Just a baddie trying to keep others on their toes...throwing people off their game.

She quickly provides a counter argument which she called "more likely", but for someone who was vocally defending Epi and calling LC sour from a previous game, why throw more shade Epi's way at all here especially if your point is that Epi is town..... I don't get that.

"Why can't I just sit and read mafia all day? " - I swear on something precious to me, Elo used this is exact same sentence (or some variation of it) in one of the other games I read of hers where she was scum. I remember it made me chuckle, I didn't notice it here till I reread her posts now.

When she finally does give "reads" she gave "good" reads.

Spoiler: show

I see Elohcin!

I still feel like you were voting epi for a nonsense reason which is what mafia will do.

Would love some content from you outside of LC v Epi.

Okay, I've finally caught up instead of folding laundry as a good wife and mother would. I am overwhelmed with all the info.

I like daisy this game and feel she is civ. She seems to be genuinely scum-hunting. At first, I liked her accusations...thoyght they could be valid. After catching up though, and tonanswer her question to me, I feel Epi is being genuine. I actually believe him that he is trying to be nicer and back off on the insults. Everything he has said is true. When he referred to not voting for bob and mesk on day 1...he never did say he thought they were good. And he is right about being falsly accused of liking to bus teammates early in a game. His meta doesn't show that he likes to do that often.

I think nutella is genuine as well. She seems to be trying to change up her game. I've been there before. I try to be different every game to keep people guessing but they still mostly guess I'm bad. Even though I think her posts are genuine thus far, that doesn't excuse her from veing bad imo. She may very well be.

Let's see.... I don't really have any other pings. There is so much content but nothing as condemning as what I see from LC.

Ask me a specific question, I'll answer... I'm an open book. I just find it difficult to wrap my head around a game this early. It takes me a bit to get a foothold usually.

Linki:. AND NOW I'M BEHING AGAIN!

I don't like that. I don't like that at all. I can't believe you can't find any content suspicious and decide to make reads that indicate why you think someone is good rather than why someone is bad. You're not lynching good people, you're lynching bad people.

She even made a half arsed read on nutella. She's genuine, but maybe she's bad. What does that give us? Why is she bad? What doesn't excuse her from being bad? What action?

Moving onto the next golden point:

Spoiler: show

Why is lynching a low poster being considered today?

Seems like it's general "at least if we are wrong we lose very little" mentality.

I don't think this is true. Talker or not, losing a civ is never a good thing and I don't think your quote represents the mentality of those willing to vote for a low poster. I like DDL's post.... (Let's see if I can double quote without fucking this up)

Why is lynching a low poster being considered today?

I find it unlikely that all if the scum can be found among the talkative folks.
I'm not advocating a lynch of a low poster without exhausting all our other options first.

I'll never understand this mentality. Worst thing about it is that it always seems to be the case.

Thah'ts why I compared low posters to zero posters.

There is that guy who makes 3-4 posts a day and contributes nothing. Sprityo, Sig and Wilgy could count on that category (personally I think Sprityo looks bad and I have no read on the other 2).

There is that guy who makes 1 post every 2 days saying hi and is a prime candidate for a replacement. I. e. Dom.

I think the former type can be a worthy lynch (though I'd like to ISO any of them before deciding). The later is not.

This is good. And it makes me want to look among the yellow for a good lynch candidate. Dom probably is just a quiet civ. I bet there are baddies among the yellows in our rainbow lists. Those we swe posting but haven't given enough to really say whether they are good or bad.

She thinks Dom is a quiet civ. Why is Dom a quiet civ after you name Dom one of your heavy scum reads in your rainbow list a few posts up? Why not sig or INH? You name Dom your 3rd scumspect and then agree that Dom is a quiet civ there are baddies among her yellow list. Too much wishy washy, too much inconsistency, too much agreeing with others.

------

as a sidenote, to take Eloh's voting patterns into consideration (these are just final votes, I can't be arsed to list her vote changes):
Day 1: Long Con (because of Epi obv)
Day 2: Sloonei
Day 3: speedchuck
Day 4: speedchuck (remember, we are to assume not all of Jay's scum mates tagged along on the Jay lynch so Eloh fits that criteria)
Day 5: malakim (a low poster)

------

at 1.18am (my time) she gets a bit "angry" at nutella for calling her out on some inconsistencies:

Spoiler: show

Placing a vote on Jack. I'm really not sure how I feel about Eloh. I will say that regardless of alignment I disapprove of her approach. If you're not going to read everything, don't act surprised when you don't understand what someone is referring to.

Fuck this. All Im doing is reading and responding, reading and responding. I'm about to give up. Y'all want too much out of this old lady. I ain't got time for this crap.

but four minutes later she's laughing with Wilgy........

Spoiler: show

tbh, I agree with this. I feel like straight forward Wilgy has been more common recently too.

Haha... I agree actually. I feel like since vocaroo mafia, I have a whole new perspective of wilgy. And I like him.

I don't feel the frustration in that particular post was genuine as a result. If I am frustrated, I'd actually try to be more informed rather than make a jokey post right after exclaiming "fuck this", but that's just me...

Spoiler: show

And now I can ask this question without being a "Didn't Read" Denny. Eloh, why are Quin and Sloonei in the reddish zone? You have never mentioned them before.

Because theor posts don't feel very trustworthy.

I recall Epi once making the argument that Eloh is more invested in games when she has someone to talk to behind the scenes. In this game she's made multiple comments about the amount of effort she's been putting into getting caught up. Her tone in these posts has not been one of frustration or dejection, but instead she's seemed kind of gleeful about it, playing around and joking about her involvement. I like this attitude and approve of it in every way, which is why I feel dirty for turning it into a case against Eloh. If she is involved in BTSC, and has been since Day 1, then she's scum. And if this is the case and Epi's old argument is true, then her carefree attitude toward the avalanche of posts in this thread might be explained by her involvement with teammates behind the scenes. Or she's just having a jolly old time.

I'm actually not having a jolly ol time. I'm sick. I still have work this week...which is good with Christmas coming, but I have a cold, so not fun. Every time I read a page even when caught up, there is another page to read. And when I go to sleep, I wake up like 10 pages behind. I cannot think straight 'cause I'm sick. Went to the store to get meds and left my phone, that's how much I can't think straight. Sloon is being nit picky with me. I think he expects more from me than I can intellectually give. I'm not an intellectual like so many of you here. I play for fun and to try to keep my mind as sharp as possible as I age. Did I mention I'm sick and feel like crap. My meds didn't even seem to help.

I'm trying to guve enough effort so y'all don't suspect me. But I am usually lynched pretty early in games because I'm suspected. When I flip civ, people are confused. When I flip baddie they are all self congratulatory. Because no matter what my role, I'm always suspected by a few players early on. Y'all just need to leave me alone and go find a baddie.

Don't feel bad for skimming the game. I do it all the time.

Oh. My. Fuck. Who said I'm skimming? Not I!

Heck....epi makes anlot os sense. He was wrong about my skimming though. Yall expect too much out of me but you see....he doesn't even expect me to read the thread. Lets find some middle ground here. Anyway... sloonei probably thinks I'm an easy target. He knows that when I'm accused I tend to shut down and give up rather than fight.

It was actually DDL who pointed out it was ok to skim the game, not Epi, and not that she was skimming. I don't think she took that the right way. She writes long paragraphs about why she can't be present: why can't she write long paragraphs about game related things? I mean, not even long ones, short ones. Surely if you can find the time to write OT you can find the time to write in topic.
----


I'm on page 2 of her ISO now, will continue in between breaks of actual education.

It's not easy getting real answers out of Eloh. I tried. At least she hasn't made any "I'm busy, I have cakes to bake and children to educate" excuses to you yet. Those will make you feel shameful.

I'd also like to point out, and I know I've mentioned this hit me the wrong way repeatedly, but the Dom placement.
She excused herself a couple days ago by saying it must have been someone who said something that made her suspect Dom. But when I read her ISO yesterday, she actually defended her reads:

Her response to Quin:

Kyle is yellow. I have no real read on him. Its only you and sloonei. And like I said already....the rainbow list was just a way tonget my gut reads out there of who I can/cannot trust. I cannot ISO or dig deep on anyone specific, pulling posts to quote and show why I'd lynch rhis player or that. I simply don't have time. I'm constantly just reading the thread through and responding. I would need some quiet in the thread so I have time to actually read peope individually and contribute detailed reads.

This is the response she gave after a JJJ prod on her list:

As for discussion of the rainbow list I made on day one (I think it was), I just looked at the list of playera and basically put them in order of most trustworthy to least trustworthy in accordance with my opinion. Apparently I was ignorant to the fact that rainbow lists had to be more complicated than that. And yea, In mentioned that I was okay with voting A low poster as I felt a baddie could be among them. Of course its not like I would have picked a low powter at random to vote for. It would be something that would have to be discussed. And just because I'm okay with voting a low poster doesn't mean all the low posters have to be orange and red on my rainbow list.

There was no mention of any suspicion towards Dom itt around her post.

Spoiler: show

I've enjoyed reading dunya's catch up posts.

I want to address mesk's play. Who was it that said they had played with her as civ before and she was really fierce? She seems so genuine to me, but that info doesn't allign with her behavior. I think she needs to be up for discussion today.

Linki...by the way... I can never address linki because on my phone, the left side of linki gets cut off for some reason. Just thought I'd share.

I don't think her absence for 6 days is indicative of her alignment. That's what I would like to sway people away from.
Yes, as town, a wrongly accused town, she gets very vocal and aggressively defensive. She hasn't been on the frying pan though, indeed, she hasn't even been on the forum for 6 days so....we can't say she's scum because she's not here.

This is oddly defensive, imo.

Dunya replaced in awesomely with great effort. What if she is too good to be true? What if there have been no night kills because of a quiet mafia and two of them are mesk and now dunya? Just really spitting this out real quick before I go watch tv with the family. I'm not fully caught up so tell me if I'm insane.

She asks a question in the thread: "Who was it that said they had played with her as civ before and she was really fierce? "

I answered her question in a post. Since it did not align with what she wanted, she accuses me of being "oddly defensive" of Mesk and tries to immediately draw suspicion towards me.

Spoiler: show

@Long Con Lost Again 3 comes to mind. But whatever man. I don't feel the need to prove I can play a good scum game. Especially given the fact that I am not scum in this game.

That's exactly what Scumdaisy would say.

Since DrWilgy is here (hi! *wave)
Can you please elaborate more on this specifically as I have a mixed read on Daisy so far. I have never played with ScumDaisy before.

Nothing. I'm terrible at reading Daisy.

Um...this post screams scum, wilgy.

Still reading...

she chose the least "scummy" wilgy post. In fact, it's literally 6 words. a 6 word post SCREAMS scum. I find that extreme hyperbole. Very strange choice of quote and exaggeration. Why is it screaming of scum? But that's not the funny thing, the funny this is:

Spoiler: show

I was amazed at how many called me scum in their gth reads. Does this reflect my contributions thus far or mostly what you were feeling from sprityo? Genuinely curious.

I fell asleep after your first handful of posts (you must have been boring )and just woke up to the GTH reads. So my read was about 90% sprit and 10% dunya, without having read most of your contributions.

Fair enough. I don't know you well, but I feel your answer here is genuine.

I kind of did my own GTH as I was reading through the thread. Of the low posters, I think Dom and wilgy may be good although there was one post of wilgy's that seemed very scum, but then he better explained himself and that sounded pretty genuine. But then again maybe it was a slip and he noticed how scum he sounded and then just tried to make up for it well. I think INH and mesk could be bad. Oh and sig is quiet too but I'm unsure about him. I could be missing some. Of the outspoken players, i think jjj, cbob, and dunya are good. I think thats all. The others are all in between participants imo, not over chatty and not too quiet. Maybe I'll try doing a list of my gth tomorrow qhere I can include everyone. I'm very sleepy.

Like, literally her next post names Wilgy may be good (referencing that post that made Wilgy seem "very scum"....but he still made it to her may be good. With whom? With Dom, who was her third suspect from the bottom in her rainbow list.

Then she flips and calls her green reads, Mesk and INH bad.

She names Jay, cBob and me as good here (this won't last, she's been throwing shit my way ever so often in the beginning so expect a follow up to when she thinks dunya is fake again).

Spoiler: show

Quick comment regarding the GTH exercise.

For everyokne that GTH'd me good. Why do you think I'm good? Under what scenarios do you find that I'm scummy? Would you say that you are mpre of a player that finds people innocent until proven guilty or guilty until proven innocent?

@elochin I'm still curious as to why you stated my comment about being able to read Daisy stuck out to you as scummy before my further explanation. What about that comment caused a scum read? Am I not allowed to be bad at reading someone?

@JoH, I'll get back to you. I've come to a point where I'm aware of my tunneling and I need to review others before I continue to bark at you. What I find interesting outside of our back and forth is your baddie read of me. What prompted this read exactly?

It was the tine and abruptness off your post. I quoted and posted and then came back to where I left off and saw you had explained yourself better in the very next post. I thought maybe after you posted, you read it back and saw your scummy tone and figured you should better explain or.... perhaps your tone wasn't a scum slip and you were just continuing your thoughts in the next post. Seeing as just about everyone, if not everyone, sees you as good with their GTHs, I'm thinking it was one of my irrational reads. I'm good at those. But I don't know. I would put you as a firm yellow in my head.

Wilgy asks her why she thought his post was scummy, she made a defense and then told him how his responses had moved her opinion, but puts him in a "firm yellow" after naming his as "maybe good" with Dom a few post earlier.

JaggedJimmyJay - EGH
JJJ is never scum.
No, but really, I don't know what he'd be like as scum. If he's leading, and leading well, mafia will probably kill him and take care of things for us. If they start killing other leaders and JJJ takes control of the game, wipe him.

This is gross. All it is is an invitation for JJJ-less mafia to burn a lynch. Gross.

Yeah, shoot. Mafia ain't gonna take him out now. They know if they don't, you eventually will! I don't think this was a wise posy to make if you are civ, chuck.

This post just screams "fake" to me. It was almost as though she was giving a soft future defence of why Jay may not be nightkilled since he's usually one of the most outspoken "supertowns". Also, it reads like a mom scolding a child, very different from "angry" Eloh using bad words.

Spoiler: show

YET ANOTHER IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

insertnamehere has replaced Glorfindel.

INH replaced in with time to submit a kill for Night 1.

Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:53 pm

insertnamehere posted elsewhere at 11:36pm EST this same evening.

And dunya said that she thinks there is more of a team kill rather than a specific role that can send in the kill because if it were a specific role then marmot would have replaced her there.

So if only the killer mafia role is allowed to send in a kill, then I think it has to velong toneither INH or dunya. Most likely INH since he replaced in first. @Marmot can the team send in the kill as a group pm? (Hey... doesn't hurt to ask, right?)

tries to add a few cents to what we were discussing and leading towards. She obv knows the answer, but prods Marmot for a response. Not sure what her parenthesis mean. Did she think he wouldn't answer in the thread? Not sure...

The issue I'm running into is that at this point I suspect both dunya and jack, but they can't both be bad, dunya is voting for Jack, Jack is being irregularly difficult at all times.

I'd be up for a dunya lynch. I keep having this nagging voice in the back of my head that says, "She's bad, Tasha. B. A. D." But part of me feels bad because she does aeem to be really on top of things and very helpful, especially for a replacement.

and here we are, Eloh trying to get me lynched again. I'm BAD, but also possibly good. But she'd also be up for lynching me. She made no observations on why I'm bad except that I'm helpful and on top of things. Does that worry Scum Eloh?

Spoiler: show

Wih mesk still not around, I'm thinking she is civ. She isn't new to mafia even though she is new here. I don't think she qould abandon a btsc team. Of course, I could be wrong. There is always a chance she and dunya are bad. I know I have said this before. And dunya kind of eased my mind about it, but think...mesk hasn't been back. She doesn't know that dunya is here. What is mesk was all alone in btsc and decides to justbleave and now she has a strong teammate but doesn't know it. Gah.... I'm so indecisive.

I need some feesback on my thoughts of dunya. What are y'all thinking?

After stating Mesk was on her bad list, she came around to townie again. But then how can she accuse me, so apparently, after defending Mesk, I'm not Mesk's scum mate and Mesk is MIA because it was just me and her in the BTSC...

She pushes for more feedback on me, no one replies to her so she says she's not voting for Mesk or Dom or Sloonei and will vote for speedchuck instead, like that, out of the blue.

Spoiler: show

Wow! I cannot believe so many of you stayed up til 2am for mafia. Five pages from 10pm-2am. I looked at the poll, I read a few posts, but tbh, not enough to really understand how y'all came around to mesk. I thought I was the only one who thought she was bad. Y'all know not to listen to cooky eloh, shoot.

Mesk, I hope you join us again sometime soon. You seem like a fun person tonplay with when you're here.

I'm not gonna lie. Even if the lynch was a townie, I'm still happy someone is gone. It helps me form better opinions of others. Dunya... I think you're alright imo now. It eases my mind because I hated that nagging feeling that you were bad.

Alright... it's Thursday and you know what that means... I won't be around. Don't talk too much.

And Mesk flips town, and I'm town again. She had the nagging feeling I was defending her. She could have continued suspecting me if that's why she thought I was scum, my scumminess never depended on Mesk flipping scum. I don't get where she gets her reads.

now this next part was blown waaaaay out of proportion (and honestly, I was offended that she thought I would be cheating in any way and I posted the photo again to prove to her it was a cat photo because she said she didn't see any cat in the photo. I don't like being called a cheater tbh)

Spoiler: show

Okay...this is weird. I'm not caught up. Trying though. But I told Juliets that I would try to get into discord today since I haven't been in there is probably a couple weeks. I went in there just now and dunya has posted a pic in there of her laptop and it has a quote of mine and her talking about me feeling guilty or whatever. She also says I'm lurking. She refers to my post when I ask for a catch up and say something like, I'm not trying to cheat. I feel the need to address this. First of all...what is that doing in discord. Second, I'm not lurking. I have been super busy as I have said. I have kept the page open so I can read here and there throughout the day as Im waiting on cupcakes to bake or nuts to roast or laundry to heck...food to finish heating in the microwave. I haven't really had the cahnce to actually post though b/c I'm STILL catching up even now. And I was not feeling guilty. I just was hoping for a catch up on the EoD and night since I wasn't here really. I called it cheating because I was asking someone else to tell me what happened rather than reading it myself. Anyway... still catching up.

all that it was ftr is a photo of my laptop (with a post I'd made public in the thread opened since I was playing mafia, and Lizzy behind looking at herself in the mirror and I said something like "diva queen" or some comment on Lizzy). That's a very nervous scum reaction imo blowing things way out of proportion. I mean sorry my screen was open on a couple of most recent posts made in the thread? Maybe I'm biased about that because I don't like to be accused of cheating, but a Townie would not have acted as hung up and defensive and aggressive as her there.

now here's where it gets good again:

I'm pushing hard for a Wilgy lynch here

Spoiler: show

I'll tell you what a strong townie stance is: it's having strong suspicions. Just clearing people off is more a scum stance-tactic. Does that make sense to you?

You were only using emojis, but those emojis actually reflected better on you. You were calling people good/bad with them. That's townie as hell.

This "not calling Jack bad for his play day one" and "not agreeing on a Jay lynch" is not necessarily townie as hell.

I hope you can see where I am coming from; I'm super genuine and super serious and extremely demanding.

So you want mor quantity from me?

no...I never complained about low post count or quantity of post. I want more genuine, hard stances. I would understand your hesitation in that you can't give me a genuine scum read without outing a scum-mate, but try.

she laughs. She doesn't make any other comments on the exchange going on between Wilgy and I, she just laughs.

next post she makes that isnt OT?

I would be okay lynching wilgy, quin, sloonei, dunya, or lc. I know its my duty to go into detail but I cannot stare at this screen much longer. This isnbased on a previous poat I made in response to dunya. These arenthe people I don't trust atm.

Wilgy-not trying hard enough. Has pinged me a couple times.
Quin and sloonei-seem to be a driving force this game but I don't feel like they seem super civ. Baddie teams usually have at least one very vocal player. If this team does, gotta be one of these.
Dunya-same field as sloonei and quin as a driving force, but she has said several things that ping me even though she also seems like a vey helpful civ. "Seems" and "is" are two different things.
Lc-still could be bad imo

She names Wilgy as her #1 suspect. Because he's not trying hard enough.

I mean....I could go on and on. But I have convinced myself 100%. All these reasons and more (I still have 2 pages I can ISO) are why I will be lynching Elo tomorrow no matter what happens tonight.

[Marmot]

Ok I still think it's Sloonei but now I'm confus.

@Marmot if K2 sends a message the same night he dies does the message still appear?

If a player is nightkilled, there action will still go through.

[dunya]

Ok I still think it's Sloonei but now I'm confus.

@Marmot if K2 sends a message the same night he dies does the message still appear?

If a player is nightkilled, there action will still go through.

hahahaha well wtf. o.O

[Kylemii]

I think we should use this day phase to discuss who the final wolf might be.

[dunya]

Are we leaning on an inactive or assuming it's one of us?

K2 mentions the Wilgy thing may have been a bus. He's specifically incriminating speedchuck, I feel.

[speedchuck]

JJJ's Eloh mentions (free of analysis, just for reference):

Spoiler: show

I don't like this sequence.

Sloonei
I don't feel you are genuine, and I think your go at Eloh was a try to score an easy lynch that people would find agreeable even if the result was no good.

Nope. I wanted you to share your thoughts on her, then I moved off.

I don't want to be on Eloh come day end. It could go on Sloonei.

I advise against this.

I could go back to Eloh.

Voting Eloh because he wants Epi's thoughts, that's all? But then he's willing to vote there immediately after taking his vote off? Smells off.

immediately? My vote has been off of Eloh for like 6 hours. I specifically wanted Epi's thoughts on my specific case against Elohcin. He shot it down. But she's still a suspect. I have no reason to remove her from the pool.

Is this to imply that you were not willing to vote for Elohcin immediately after the initial post in that progression?

I'm staring at Sloonei's ISO, and the worst I can say is that I am not experiencing the transparent civilian brotherhood that he and I often enjoy (most recently as Jerry and Steinbrenner). That's a high standard to ask anyone to meet though, and I am not especially alarmed by this content -- and there's plenty of it. I don't think his treatment of Elohcin was unreasonable, and I'll talk about that shortly.

What are the moments in his post history driving his present wagon?

Elohcin's rainbow and dialogue with Sloonei

Sloonei's questions here were reasonable -- Elohcin voiced in vague terms that the high posters seem civ and that she'd be willing to vote for a low poster. The contents of the rainbow list don't align with that much. A change of heart is fine, but I don't know if that's even what happened in Eloh's head -- the progression is unclear. The names in the rainbow almost appear randomized. I'm surprised to see myself rated well given my own slow start, and I have no idea why Mesk is so high. I don't know why the low posters are split between yellow and orange. I don't know why the high posters Sloonei and Quin are orange. When given an opportunity to expand on these things, she just said "relax" and restated the general purpose of a rainbow list.

@Elohcin, you need to talk more about what's going on there.

So then if he was right on all that why did he drop the vote when Epi said the read/case was bad? What made him swap his vote?

Let's ask Sloonei:

Spoiler: show

Putting a vote on sprityo because I want to hear from him. I'm going out for a bit, will be back before the deadline.

Sloonei

I don't feel you are genuine, and I think your go at Eloh was a try to score an easy lynch that people would find agreeable even if the result was no good.

Nope. I wanted you to share your thoughts on her, then I moved off.

I don't want to be on Eloh come day end. It could go on Sloonei.

I advise against this.

I could go back to Eloh.

Sloonei

I don't feel you are genuine, and I think your go at Eloh was a try to score an easy lynch that people would find agreeable even if the result was no good.

Nope. I wanted you to share your thoughts on her, then I moved off.

I don't want to be on Eloh come day end. It could go on Sloonei.

I advise against this.

I could go back to Eloh.

Uh-huh.

You negated my BTSC theory, but I still see in-thread evidence that coild to against her. In the absence of strong suspects, I'm not eliminating her from suspicion.

In the absence of strong suspects, I can get behind the idea of lynchig a low poster.

It appears the influence Epi had over his vote switch relates to content separate from Elohcin's rainbow list -- instead it relates to the meta discussion pertaining to her behavior when she has BTSC. This strikes me as consistent with the notion that she could still warrant a vote given the other reasons Sloonei's stated suspicion exists.

I was swayed off the main point of my case on eloh ad cooled off on her in general, so I wanted to focus my attention on another suspect. I was never convinced that Elohcin should be read as town. She was just knocked down from my "top suspect" pedestal.

What do you think of sprityo in the immediate present?

I want to lynch sprityo. His refusal to acknowledge the suspicion of him (instead treating it as frivolous/without premise) and following take-the-ball-home pout looks fake.

That's weak shit for you. Nah.

It moves me more than these other wagons move me.

I don't agree with your take on the Sloonei/Elohcin dynamic. You mentioned before that you thought he was trying to take the easy route with you and nutella. Describe that to me.

That question was directed at JJJ because it was intended for JJJ. He was supporting your posting, so I wanted to understand why the part that bothered me didn't bother him. I wanted his thought process to help formulate a read on him, not as part of my feelings on you. I can certainly see why you interpreted this thay way, though, especially on ISO.

Can you describe the mafia mindset you attributed to Sloonei at the time regarding his vote move off of Elohcin? What about that maneuver made you suspicious of him?

I recall Epi once making the argument that Eloh is more invested in games when she has someone to talk to behind the scenes. In this game she's made multiple comments about the amount of effort she's been putting into getting caught up. Her tone in these posts has not been one of frustration or dejection, but instead she's seemed kind of gleeful about it, playing around and joking about her involvement. I like this attitude and approve of it in every way, which is why I feel dirty for turning it into a case against Eloh. If she is involved in BTSC, and has been since Day 1, then she's scum. And if this is the case and Epi's old argument is true, then her carefree attitude toward the avalanche of posts in this thread might be explained by her involvement with teammates behind the scenes. Or she's just having a jolly old time.

yeah I can see this. I feel like Eloh often gets mislynched for low activity, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is baddie eloh

I disagree. I don't think she gets mislynched for being a low poster. In fact, I don't think many people here do. I think she gets mislynched because she tends to say things that seem illogical, but I don't know that I could differentiate her baddie missteps from her civ missteps.

@Long Con I don't know if you ever answered my question, do you now hold the belief that the back and forth between you and Epi was a misunderstanding?

While I like Wilgy's recent activity, it's freaking me out a little bit. I don't recall him playing so straight forward a playstyle in... well, ever!

Epi, I appreciate your defense of me. I'd say that I read more than I skim. But I don't remember EVERYTHING I read or whi said what. This us why I try to post as I catch up. Even still....i feel like Inonly have time to answer what's asked of me and not enough time to form my own thoughts. That's why I did the rainbow list. I felt it would atnleast get my gut reads out there of who I feel I can trust. And Daisy is right, unfortunately. Even though I don't find my positions illogical, others often do. And this is why I am usually lynched.

Still reading...

This post makes me think Eloh is town. Would bad Eloh even bother with this mindset or pretending to have it? Probably not.

How to get mislynched chapter 4: Townread just about everybody

What mindset are you referring to exactly; what did Elohcin say here specifically which you feel is less/not applicable to a mafioso?

That question was directed at JJJ because it was intended for JJJ. He was supporting your posting, so I wanted to understand why the part that bothered me didn't bother him. I wanted his thought process to help formulate a read on him, not as part of my feelings on you. I can certainly see why you interpreted this thay way, though, especially on ISO.

Can you describe the mafia mindset you attributed to Sloonei at the time regarding his vote move off of Elohcin? What about that maneuver made you suspicious of him?

He threw out a case on Eloh, nobody followed out and somebody disagreed with it, he moved off Eloh but expressed he was still fine voting her. Similarly, his "I could end up on Epi." In my experience mafia often try to gain consensus on their votes and are less likely to stake bold voting positions.

(Keep in mind part of his defense was "this is normal play for me," but I've essentially never played with him before. I modded one game on another site that I think you ebbed up replacing him, I was only alive one cycle in Crossover (and maybe he was modding?), and CC123 is far from a normal game)

Describe the bold voting position that you feel is more likely to come from a civilian in this scenario. What does that look like?

Daisy responds and he just drops it? This looks like something I would do if I were bad. Quin tries to get something on daisy. Can't. Gives up. And as he now feels daisy will not be taken to an easy lynch, he asks her opinion on sig. Which really, he should know her thoughts if he had been reading her posts. And if he hadn't, this only confirms his original "suspicion" of her is made up.

My top suspects for day 3 are quin and chuck so far.

Post is snipped for brevity, here's the whole thing

Elohcin, your grievance with Quin here is contingent upon his handling of Spacedaisy. Following the interaction Quin had with Sloonei that you discussed in this same post, Daisy's handling of sig (re: Jack) was the core of the dialogue. In that regard, it would seem to me that a focused question about sig to Spacedaisy makes plenty of sense. Indeed, the highlighted portion here is an assertion that Quin didn't actually read her posts because he asked about sig, but the exchange above this in the same post displays Quin talking about Spacedaisy's read on sig. Please talk about that.

Also please talk about this

ELOHCIN
KYLEMII
SPEEDCHUCK
QUIN

bad
good
bad
good

Wih mesk still not around, I'm thinking she is civ. She isn't new to mafia even though she is new here. I don't think she qould abandon a btsc team. Of course, I could be wrong. There is always a chance she and dunya are bad. I know I have said this before. And dunya kind of eased my mind about it, but think...mesk hasn't been back. She doesn't know that dunya is here. What is mesk was all alone in btsc and decides to justbleave and now she has a strong teammate but doesn't know it. Gah.... I'm so indecisive.

I don't understand the connection being drawn here. In a hypothetical scenario wherein Mesk is a mafioso who has gone AWOL on her team, potential teammates of hers within the dynamic you've drawn could then be anyone low in activity who existed in this game prior to dunya's arrival (including but not necessarily dunya herself). What is the special relevance of dunya to your read on Mesk?

In which I discuss concerns about the sincerity of Elohcin's posts

Spoiler: show

Oh. My. Goodness. Reading this thread is like listening to my children bicker. I'm not done catching up, but I'm over it. This.post below is why I'm voting LC. He admits to making up a reason to accuse epi of being bad. This ia what mafia have to do to look like they are scum-hunting.

Long Con admitted to an underlying assumption in his accusation of Epignosis, but not to "making up a reason". The latter notion is silly.

Spoiler: show

I still feel like you were voting epi for a nonsense reason which is what mafia will do.

There's a disparity between vagueness and confidence here that doesn't work for me.

Spoiler: show

I think nutella is genuine as well. She seems to be trying to change up her game. I've been there before. I try to be different every game to keep people guessing but they still mostly guess I'm bad. Even though I think her posts are genuine thus far, that doesn't excuse her from veing bad imo. She may very well be.

Disclaimer is yuck.

Rainbow list looks almost randomized. Questions are addressed | in a limited capacity. The methodology is discussed, but not really the specific reads on specific players.

Spoiler: show

Heck....epi makes anlot os sense. He was wrong about my skimming though. Yall expect too much out of me but you see....he doesn't even expect me to read the thread. Lets find some middle ground here. Anyway... sloonei probably thinks I'm an easy target. He knows that when I'm accused I tend to shut down and give up rather than fight.

Is this a thing that Sloonei knows?

Spoiler: show

My thoughts exactly! But...at least there hace been no night kills on top of the no lynches. Its like having a VERY long Day 1. But I think it's about time we get this party started and killing some bad guys. Hopefully I can catch up by the time day starts again.

This one is just a bit yikes at face value.

I'll offer this as a counter-example wherein the tone reads more sincerely. I appreciate anyone making and effort to dip their toes into the analytic realm. Elohcin, what inspired (hi Quin) you to give this a try this time?


VultureGate -- the subject of a lengthy exchange between Elohcin and Jack. Elohcin later clarified that her focus here was on LC's desire to lynch Epignosis. That doesn't mesh with the "I agree with this" given in response to DDL's initial vultures comment, which referred to some undefined plural set of players.

Spoiler: show

I would like to think Mod Marmot wouldn't have replaced me into sprityo's role if there was a completely inactive scum team of 3. So I am ruling that possibility out completely from understanding what's been happening in the night phases. Is there a lurker/inactive amidst the scum team--more than likely. Are three users inactive? No.

This is so simple and makes so much sense. One of you talkers are definitely scum.

I don't think this follows from dunya's point unless a "talker" is defined to be literally anyone who has talked. The implication seems to be more in the direction of high-activity contributors. The confidence of this acceptance must also inherently hinge upon dunya being a civilian, which would be striking given the doubts expressed not long prior.

Spoiler: show

JaggedJimmyJay - EGH
JJJ is never scum.
No, but really, I don't know what he'd be like as scum. If he's leading, and leading well, mafia will probably kill him and take care of things for us. If they start killing other leaders and JJJ takes control of the game, wipe him.

This is gross. All it is is an invitation for JJJ-less mafia to burn a lynch. Gross.

Yeah, shoot. Mafia ain't gonna take him out now. They know if they don't, you eventually will! I don't think this was a wise posy to make if you are civ, chuck.

The piggyback is yuck.

Spoiler: show

The issue I'm running into is that at this point I suspect both dunya and jack, but they can't both be bad, dunya is voting for Jack, Jack is being irregularly difficult at all times.

I'd be up for a dunya lynch. I keep having this nagging voice in the back of my head that says, "She's bad, Tasha. B. A. D." But part of me feels bad because she does aeem to be really on top of things and very helpful, especially for a replacement.

We're back to a willingness to lynch dunya. Changing one's mind is fine, but I don't see a clear progression here.

Spoiler: show

And before y'all ask...I didn't go with aloonei b/c epi has me not second guessing my read, but second guessing if I'm right because I don't know why he survived before.

Concerned with appearances.

Yes. I would lynch him. Hence my vote at this hour. I think he is doing busy work, not real work. His token look into Eloh doesn't help my opinion. She is always exhibiting the characteristics he is "penciling in" as bad (inconsistent, no clear progression). It doesn't help me work out who is bad. It looks like busy work.

The lack of a clear progression was one thing I brought up, specifically re: the dunya read. Do you think the concerns about face-value sincerity I discussed also reflect the Elohcin norm?

Do you think Eloh is trying to look like she's trying to solve anything?

Yes. She has compiled quite a few posts to this point, and the content therein in thicker than one might expect without checking. It isn't all confusion and catch-up frustration.

I think you're basically describing town Eloh behavior and calling it a case for her badness. Epi calls you out

Can you recall an example of a town Elohcin that fits the general description I provided in my post?

Another issue that bothers me about 3J is that he hasn't placed his vote on anybody.

This is indeed troubling.

Let's lynch Elohcin.

The primary defense I have seen fielded for Elohcin is "that's just how she is". I don't agree with that. I don't make these observations about her in every game. Hell, in many of her recent games she just hasn't made enough posts to facilitate (hi Quin) these observations.

The primary defense I have seen fielded for Elohcin is "that's just how she is". I don't agree with that. I don't make these observations about her in every game. Hell, in many of her recent games she just hasn't made enough posts to facilitate (hi Quin) these observations.

What does a civilian Elohcin look like?

The first thing that comes to mind is a willingness to throw a vote into a consensus without inserting analytic or intuitive effort into that. She often doesn't even play catch-up, but rather gives the thread the finger (especially when it's a highly-active game), and I think I've seen that from her more than once as a civilian.

This is about a read at face value of her sincerity. Any player, regardless of their "style" or "tendencies" is capable of seeming insincere in a game. I don't always have this perspective of Elohcin.

This strikes me as you are bad and circumstance is robbing you of people to accuse.

What does a civilian Elohcin look like?

Mountain Mafia [DAY 3]

k well there's shit all I can do about that beyond continuing to play the game.

Elohcin is low-hanging fruit and I didn't find your case against her to be tremendously convincing. She's said a few odd things, but I don't see your case moving in a meaningful direction. Just pointing out a few instances of said oddities. I didn't see you digging deep into her, or anybody else. It was another vomited read.

I'm not going to pretend my case was some home run. This isn't far from being the second week of Day 1. It's the material which has most triggered my suspicion to this point. I don't think any of the cases made in this thread to this point that I have seen have been tremendously convincing. Look at the tally right now. Are we on course to lynch someone based upon a thorough, convincing case?

To what degree do you believe in your case?
why is mesk a better lynch than elohcin and dom?

I believe in my Elohcin case enough to want to lynch her.

Mesk is not a better lynch than Elohcin. Mesk is a better lynch than Dom because the low-poster motivation suits both of them, while only the former's content features tangible reasons for suspicion.

come on LC (or kyle or quin or wilgy) join usss

I don't know the 3J case. I would rather CFD Eloh if my vote is to move.

Elohcin

To what degree do you believe in your case?
why is mesk a better lynch than elohcin and dom?

I believe in my Elohcin case enough to want to lynch her.

Mesk is not a better lynch than Elohcin. Mesk is a better lynch than Dom because the low-poster motivation suits both of them, while only the former's content features tangible reasons for suspicion.

what are these tangible reasons

She provided a big post of non-reads which had mafia utility (appearance of contribution) but little civilian utility. She has numerous posts which do not promote a civilian-oriented pursuit of something; they just exist.

To what degree do you believe in your case?
why is mesk a better lynch than elohcin and dom?

I believe in my Elohcin case enough to want to lynch her.

Mesk is not a better lynch than Elohcin. Mesk is a better lynch than Dom because the low-poster motivation suits both of them, while only the former's content features tangible reasons for suspicion.

Bullshit. The latter has no content to compare.

That's the point. -1 is less than 0.

linki: I see a lot of you here. Feel free to respond to my reasons, or analyse this JJJ stuff [mention]Elohcin[/mention]
linki2: Oh don't you start this crap again

[dunya]

I feel better about speed on the whole.

If it's not an inactive, I'd have a harder time finding an excuse for DDL / Quin.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

@Long Con Lost Again 3 comes to mind. But whatever man. I don't feel the need to prove I can play a good scum game. Especially given the fact that I am not scum in this game.

That's exactly what Scumdaisy would say.

Since DrWilgy is here (hi! *wave)
Can you please elaborate more on this specifically as I have a mixed read on Daisy so far. I have never played with ScumDaisy before.

Nothing. I'm terrible at reading Daisy.

Um...this post screams scum, wilgy.
Still reading...

Interesting. This is based on what?

Quick comment regarding the GTH exercise.

For everyokne that GTH'd me good. Why do you think I'm good? Under what scenarios do you find that I'm scummy? Would you say that you are mpre of a player that finds people innocent until proven guilty or guilty until proven innocent?

@elochin I'm still curious as to why you stated my comment about being able to read Daisy stuck out to you as scummy before my further explanation. What about that comment caused a scum read? Am I not allowed to be bad at reading someone?

@JoH, I'll get back to you. I've come to a point where I'm aware of my tunneling and I need to review others before I continue to bark at you. What I find interesting outside of our back and forth is your baddie read of me. What prompted this read exactly?

I am currently debating a vote for either Eloh or Kyle. Somebody talk to me about these people.

Talk to me.

Something about Eloh had held me ealier. She had stated that my exclamation about not being able to read Daisy felt super scummy, but immediately backed off. I couldn't tell if what I was saying was an actual scum tell of hers that I triggered or if she was looking for things to call scummy and pulled the trigger too soon. Did you read this? I kimda forgot until now.

Kyle... Kyle. I haven't interacted with Kyle directly I dont think. What has you mumbling is name late at night?

Elohcin -
Civ due to interactions with J3. While not a negative voting record I so far have had no harsh qualms with the results of her votes.
Bad due to interactions with me that I noticed earlier in the game. Eloh was playing catch up (like someone else who I won't mention) and had called me scummy for a single sentence regarding daisy. It stuck with me and still does.

Above is every post of Wilgy's that talks about Eloh.


REASON NUMBER #1 WHY I AM VOTING ELOH:

Look at this exchange. There has been only one meaningful interaction between the two all game. Eloh calls Wilgy scummy in a passive way. Apparently (I haven't ISO'd Eloh) she never came back and fleshed that out. Wilgy keeps bringing it up to keep the distance and include Eloh in his posts, but their interaction never goes anywhere.
Feels bad man.
Feels like distancing.
Feels awkward.
Feels like avoidance.
Feels like teammates.

Eloh, I'm voting you based on interactions with the scumfirms, even just from their side of things. I think you've played well this game, put in a lot of effort. I don't think I can narrow things down to POE yet, and I will never base an entire late game read on a D1 rainbow.

Even before Wilgy flipped, after I ISO'd him, I says to myself, I says "If wilgy is bad, Eloh is his teammate." When dunya tried to cinvince me to switch to Eloh, I said I was more sure on Wilgy but thought that Eloh and Wilgy were likely w/w, if Wilgy is scum. That still holds.

I have an even better reason.

If you believe Speedchuck is a civ, then Eloh's vote on him in Night 4 was the awkward teammate save of the year.

[Kylemii]

It's boring but I think it probably is an inactive. Quin is a possibility.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

double teammate save*

[Kylemii]

technically dunya could be mafia but only if she's playing the strongest mafia game anyone has ever played

[dunya]

I don't think speed is scum at this point for the record. I have more reason to trust him than you or Quin.

[dunya]

technically dunya could be mafia but only if she's playing the strongest mafia game anyone has ever played

and I called out 3 of my scum mates? I mean, I wish I was that good and that heartless, but I'm weak, Kyle. Weak as balls.

[Kylemii]

if after today we voted for sig, ddl, quin, and nijuu in completely random order we'd still win even if we didn't land on the mafia til the last one.

though that would take 15 days to complete

[Dragon D. Luffy]

if after today we voted for sig, ddl, quin, and nijuu in completely random order we'd still win even if we didn't land on the mafia til the last one.

though that would take 15 days to complete

Replace DDL for Kyle and I agree it's a perfect plan.

[dunya]

My goal is to reach 666 posts before the game ends. Let's not let Sloonei down by killing the convo.

Which order would you like to lynch those players Kyle?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I mean. It's PoE. I don't wanna lynch Nutella, Dunya, or LC. Though a good theory could convince me on the last 2.

[dunya]

if after today we voted for sig, ddl, quin, and nijuu in completely random order we'd still win even if we didn't land on the mafia til the last one.

though that would take 15 days to complete

Replace DDL for Kyle and I agree it's a perfect plan.

How sold are you on the Eloh lynch? If not Eloh, who would you lynch right now?

[speedchuck]

Summarizing JJJ's stuff on Eloh in a COMPLETELY BIASED way:

JJJ does a lot of questioning of people's reads on Eloh, in some cases forcing them to reevaluate their scumread of her, in others making them elaborate on their townread.
JJJ coaxes Eloh to talk more about her rainbow.
JJJ diverts to sprityo when suspixions start to fade on Eloh. Epi rightly calls this 'weak s**t'
JJJ hangs around the meta of people being scumread for suspecting or not suspecting Eloh, indirectly questioning some peeps.
JJJ asks Eloh to talk about more things.
With no leadup, JJJ GTH's Eloh as bad.
JJJ questions Eloh, saying he doesn't understand her posts.
JJJ finally makes a case "doubting the sincerity of Eloh," using arguments that would normally incriminate town Eloh as well. Her being "concerned with appearances," once again using the misguided notion that town doesn't care about preservation. Bad arguments. On purpose?
"Lack of clear progression" because inconsistency is a mafia thing, right?
What I see here is JJJ defending Eloh by making arguments that are classically bad arguments. He condemns her for a decent town meta, and then pesters other players to compare her to her town meta. It's a wiley defense disguised as suspicion! #totesbiasedhere
When asked in the middle of all this, he says that Eloh has looked like she's trying to solve things. ??? I thought he was scumreading her!
"Let's lynch Elohcin" he says, as soon as both town leaders turn on him.
He makes an even more pathetic case on Eloh, disagreeing that her town meta is her town meta while reinforcing the town meta. (for the record, Eloh has played a good game. It's close to her town meta. Meta can't solve everything.)
JJJ disclaimers his own case, weakens it, then sticks with it. Then he dies and leaves her and Wilgy both in a better spot.

linki: good god you people, shut up for a second and let me follow up.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

if after today we voted for sig, ddl, quin, and nijuu in completely random order we'd still win even if we didn't land on the mafia til the last one.

though that would take 15 days to complete

Replace DDL for Kyle and I agree it's a perfect plan.

How sold are you on the Eloh lynch? If not Eloh, who would you lynch right now?

I'd probably go back to my Quin theory even though I'm not completely sure of it and it's long overdue for an ISO.

Basically I'm being a lazy ass today and waiting for the Eloh flip before making actual effort on my reads.

[speedchuck]

I'm not going to be lazy. FOR K2 SLOONEI! *gets shot*

[speedchuck]

That was supposed to be a strikeout not an underline pls don't kill me.

[dunya]

"What I see here is JJJ defending Eloh by making arguments that are classically bad arguments."

That is exactly what I saw. and I am also unbiased and totally neutral and amazing.

[Kylemii]

My goal is to reach 666 posts before the game ends. Let's not let Sloonei down by killing the convo.

Which order would you like to lynch those players Kyle?

Well... choosing the order would kind of defeat the purpose of what I was saying, I was mainly just pointing out that even if we're wrong a lot of times in a row we'll probably still win this.

I think we should start with sig and nijuu. Even if our final adversary isn't one of them, prioritizing them first gives mafia a reason to withhold their kills and give us more time to find them.

plan made slightly more complicated by the fact that nijuu is actually around enough to send in a nightkill

[dunya]

I guess I could go through Wilgy/Jay/some of Eloh and see what Quin's situation looks like with all of them.

[speedchuck]

In conclusion, for me, Eloh is bad based on team interactions. If she's town then I'll have to reevaluate.

I think Dunya is my top town read currently. If Eloh is scum, JJJ's move to Sprit from Eloh on D1 feels like a save. If Eloh is town, it still doesn't feel like a bus.

Dunya p. much town to me.

[dunya]

we've had 3 no night kills. If the scum team looks like JJJ/Eloh/Wilgy so far, we know that total inactivity wasn't the reason why those nights failed. Whatever factored in those 3 nights could play a role in future nights without specifically implicating nijuu/sig y'know.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

First we see the Eloh flip. If she flips bad we do the following:

We see if mafia kills or not.

If mafia kills, we ignore Sig forever.

If mafia doesn't kill, we speculate on whether to call the non-kill bluff and lynch Sig, or make this a long trek where the game goes to Day 17 and we probably end up lynching Sig anyway (you can guess what side i'm leaning on).

Now, if Eloh flips good, then I dunno. That's a problem for Future DDL.

[dunya]

In conclusion, for me, Eloh is bad based on team interactions. If she's town then I'll have to reevaluate.

I think Dunya is my top town read currently. If Eloh is scum, JJJ's move to Sprit from Eloh on D1 feels like a save. If Eloh is town, it still doesn't feel like a bus.

Dunya p. much town to me.

that's what I like to hear.

[Kylemii]

if a kill happens night 8 following a mafia eloh flip I think that would be evidence of a civvie sig

[speedchuck]

Now, if Eloh flips good, then I dunno. That's a problem for Future DDL.

What kind of problem?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Unless Marmot is allowing dead baddies to send actions for inactive teammates but I don't think so.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Now, if Eloh flips good, then I dunno. That's a problem for Future DDL.

What kind of problem?

We suddenly have to lynch 2 people instead of 1.

[dunya]

Unless Marmot is allowing dead baddies to send actions for inactive teammates but I don't think so.

honestly, with marmot, anything is possible........

[Kylemii]

First we see the Eloh flip. If she flips bad we do the following:

We see if mafia kills or not.

If mafia kills, we ignore Sig forever.

If mafia doesn't kill, we speculate on whether to call the non-kill bluff and lynch Sig, or make this a long trek where the game goes to Day 17 and we probably end up lynching Sig anyway (you can guess what side i'm leaning on).

Now, if Eloh flips good, then I dunno. That's a problem for Future DDL.

pretty much this

[speedchuck]

...

I may have wasted 45 minutes of effort making a case on Eloh.

[dunya]

...

I may have wasted 45 minutes of effort making a case on Eloh.

what do you mean? Did you find a reason why she's not mafia?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Honestly.

90% of why I'm voting Eloh is this post:

Look at me voting alongside sloonei, another suspicion of mine. This game is so crazy. Fun, but crazy.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

She had recently wrote a big case on why Speed was bad.

Until Wilgy and Jay became the main wagons.

Then someone started a Speedchuck CFD.

And she joined it with the post I just quoted.

I mean... dude.

[speedchuck]

...

I may have wasted 45 minutes of effort making a case on Eloh.

what do you mean? Did you find a reason why she's not mafia?

No.

But everyone was already voting there.

[nutella]

oh my god eloh that geode cake is gorgeous!!!

[Elohcin]

oh my god eloh that geode cake is gorgeous!!!

Thank you. I've been wanting to do one for a long while so I jumped at the chance.

Just want to let you all know I will be quiet the rest of the day. I think I played well. I don't think I look bad. New reasons for lynching me are based on JJJ and wilgy and how they interacted with me. I cannot give defense to that. I'm mentally exhausted. And, if late ISOs didn't help JJJ keep from getting lynched, they most definitely won't help me, so why waste my time. You all are making a mistake, but I still have faith that civs will prevail. I'll take the win with you as a deadie.