[ENDGAME] - The Fellowship of the Ring Mafia (LoTR I)

[Long Con]

The noble emoticon... why did you use it?

[Jackofhearts2005]

The noble emoticon... why did you use it?

I don't remember. That's part of the problem with using emoji's. Perhaps I meant something like "I don't think LC is saying this because he's bad."

The shrug was pretty clear, though. In no way was I encouraging you to push on Nutella.

I didn't order the four orange in order of suspicion. I'd vote juliets at this point.

Why am I orange at all then?

I didn't like your early-game interaction with my nutella suspicion, and you've pinged me a few times here and there.

To be clear, you mean http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 92#p402392 and "a few times here and there."

Try again.

I didn't say I commented on them. I just mean that when reading your posts, some struck me as baddielike. Is this a big problem for you?

In a way. Show them to me.

[Marmot]

The Bridge of Khazad-dûm

Deep, deep under the mines of Moria, the Borag found the Fellowship. In a rage of fury, it slaughtered Glorfindel, the kindest being in Middle Earth.


Glorfindel has been nightkilled. He was...

Spoiler: show

Gandalf

Gandalf may once (each) in the game, roleblock another player, protect another player, and nightkill another player. He may only perform one of these actions each night.

Day 6 has begun. You have 48 hours to lynch somebody.

It is now MYLO. Votes in the poll will continue to be changeable, but if a hammer of 4 votes on a player is reached, the day will end immediately.

[insertnamehere]

Any chance he'll be rezzed?

[insertnamehere]

I plan on taking my sweet time voting, and I hope we can all talk this shit out before a majority vote ends it all.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Townies should not vote at all until we choose a lynch. If all 3 scum come online at the same time, a single townie voting for another single townie means game over.

[speedchuck]

Townies should not vote at all until we choose a lynch. If all 3 scum come online at the same time, a single townie voting for another single townie means game over.

Does the day instantly end on majority?

I'm pretty sure all we have to worry about is where our votes sit at deadline.

[Jackofhearts2005]

if a hammer of 4 votes on a player is reached, the day will end immediately.

[speedchuck]

if a hammer of 4 votes on a player is reached, the day will end immediately.

Oh god.

I'm glad you read things. Thanks.

[speedchuck]

I think this is the first time I've seen hammer on this site. It was standard where I come from.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hammer games give me nightmares about failing to get enough votes to lynch known baddies.

[Epignosis]

If timmer/Elohcin is bad:

Jack, have we been in a game before? I'm rusty as hell, I feel like... no?

(This is a thing that I'm doing.)

what're you ing about?

Trying out the "thing"

Do you have an opinion of Jack thinging?

I don't know Jack. *distant rimshot*

Spoiler: show

This is easy teammate interaction, but not necessarily one.

Did a read through. Not much stands out mostly becauseIve lost touch with peoples usual m.o. Not a fan of Long Cons posts but the attention he's getting feels a bit easy. Holding my vote for now.

Spoiler: show

timmer didn't pick one side or the other here. He gave a vague appraisal of Long Con's posts, but dismissed the attention against him as "easy." That's a potential teammate interaction.

Okay, so how have Day 1's been going around here these days? I see a lot of people either seeming to establish a meta (I'm going to do THIS this game") or reinforcing what seems to be their perceived norm (Sloonei "hi, I post a lot and ask a lot of questions") etc.

How does this meta-market typically end up? I guess I'm just struggling to find an entry point into the conversations.

My self-analysis was just an attempt to break the ice with rabbit, who wasn't giving me anything to work with. In fact, he still hasn't. He came in, made a bunch of nothing posts, then bailed. I want to see reads or some attempt to play the game out of him soon.

But uh, the meta stuff happens when new folks are around. I know I like to not be left in the dark when it comes to new players, hence my asking the two new faces (to me, at least) about their mafia experience early in the game.
You can enter the conversation right here! Do any players stand out to you one way or the other so far?

Yeah, I wonder if he's feeling a bit like I am? (Am i right that this is rabbit's first foray back in a long time?) I remember rabbit being someone who could post a lot or a little but no specific feature that would help you with his current output.

As for the rest, not really. I'm mostly just observing for now. I've always been pretty useless on Day 1, but once I get my hands on lynch polls I can correlate data wit the best of them.

I'd say the votes on LC seemed a bit easy, but then so did LC's own vote, it's typical Day 1 stuff. I'll mostly be watching for people making too much of a mountain out of a day 1 molehill, that's generally what constitutes my early pings.

Spoiler: show

I don't get anything in the way of timmer's interaction with Sloonei, but the latter sentence strikes me as disingenuous: If timmer draws most of his early opinions over people making too much over something insignificant Day 1, then, first off, why did he explicitly tell everyone (including the mafia) that, and second, did he ever find anything?

I'm going to put my vote on DFaraday.

I agree with his briefest of points about rabbit, that he hasn't contributed much, but then again, neither has Wilgy (all jokes), neither has DF himself ( posts), or novaselinenever (barely here), neither have I, really. In a game full of quiet players, singling one out who doesn't have an established meta while others with established metas run rampant with jokes etc and you give them a pass just feels cheap and like something a mafia would do. Why tangle with a meta people know when you can vote the new guy?

I voted for faraway because there are ample players being quiet and or hiding behind jokey meta and he arbitrarily voted for the one quiet player whose meta is unknown and can't be discussed. It felt too easy and calculated. It's not much but it's what pinged me.

Spoiler: show

All right, timmer voted for DFaraday Day 1. It's been years, but timmer and I were bad in the first game here together, and he and I don't like losing teammates, especially early on. If timmer / Elohcin is bad, then I would believe DFaraday / juliets to be good.

Voting Timmer for now. He hasn't addressed my points against him from earlier.

What points were those? Where you didn't like that I voted for you?

Okay, so I've got a bit of time, so let's cover some questions...

First, DF... you are making my head do this:



So, here is your post:

Timmer is, intentionally or not, misrepresenting my admittedly terrible case.

My point was specifically that Rabbit seemed to have a high post count and low on-topic content. I went back and looked, at the time I voted Rabbit had made about 15 posts, Wilgy had made 12 (and literally half of those were posted altogether as a meme reference), and I had made one. And about half the players in this game (myself included) have quite a bit of experience playing with Rabbit in the past. I certainly remember him as always being jokey and strange, but also making insightful observations and taking strong stances. He does seem to have been engaging more later in the day, to be fair.

If anything, Timmer seems to be taking an easy option here and setting up a quiet player who makes weak votes as an easy target.

Can we break this down? The goal of a mafia player is to find the thing that feels the most "off" or is the most "pingy" and then go after it with a vote and a case. I found DF's Rabbit vote weak and pingy, so I explained it as such and voted DF. DF, in his rebuttal, actually BEGINS by agreeing with me that what he was, in his own words, terrible. I mean, it's right there. He then tries to suggest that there is a difference between a rabbit with "about 15" posts that were low on on-topic content, and a Wilgy with 12. I'll note here that there is an interesting difference in his descriptions of the two. Wilgy "had made 12" Rabbit had made "about 15". Why is one a definite number, but the one that is most pertinent is a rough estimate? Are we trying to help things a touch to make a point seem stronger? Or is this nothing? But the greater point here is, what the heck is the difference between 12 jokey posts, and "roughly 15"? How is 15 a reasonable pick for a vote, but 12 not?

Why do I harp on this? Because DF's point here is that my case against him (that he seemed to arbitrarily pick one jokey player to vote for, and why that one and not the others, etc.) is, in his words, me "taking an easy option and setting up a quiet player as an easy target". Those are big, negative terms. Setting up a player is not innuendo, that's a description of a baddie. So DF is trying to say that I'm bad for voting him. Not just that my vote was wrong. But that he was potentially malicious, and his reason? Wilgy had 12 posts. Rabbit "about 15" so clearly, not only was my case wrong, but it was setting DF up.
"
Y'all can shout out with your opinions on this, but I'm really not a fan of what seems to have boiled down to "NO U", imo. That DF tried to attach evil intent to my case feels very different from just suggesting that my case was wrong.

HOWEVER! Part 2 coming.

But... then the lynch happened.

Now, I'm not going to go into too much detail about this for, but we've got the results of the lynch to look at, we've got the role list and some ideas that I have about some things, and then we've got the immediate posts after the lynch result. I am trying to judge DF within the context of these things, and despite the word choices he made that I just covered above etc. I weigh all of this together and I'm not sure that a lynch of DF at this time is a good idea. I could be over analyzing things, and I won't discuss this stuff too much because I think it wouldn't help the cause,

But I'm left with the notion that DF NO U'd me as a response to my vote against him, but not that he's necessarily bad. He definitely could be, but in terms of his reaction to me, I note also that he hasn't really mentioned the other people who voted for him at all, only me, which again, feels like a NO U.

So overall, I'm back to neutral on DF at this time, but I'm not a "fan" of how he handled my case against him.

Spoiler: show

After all this, back to neutral? I am convinced that if DFaraday / juliets is bad, then timmer is not, and vice-versa.

Okay, so I'm feeling civvie vibes from INH, but I'm not sure his case on Kyle is as slam dunk as he seems to think. I'm reading those posts of Kyle's and I feel like I've played with that exact "someone help me" tone many times as a civ... I feel like Long Con has gone stone cold in this game, and that doesn't feel civvie of him. Mac still baffles me. I'm not sure that this woe is me too many games maybe just kill me schtick fits him, but that doesn't necessarily indicate alignment. I really don't think that Wilgy's one contribution to the game was a flippant "oh Ambray wasn't bad". At one point do we demand content from him? I forget.

Spoiler: show

This is commentary on Long Con's activity, and it's a soft approach to questioning Long Con's alignment. They could still be evil together.

Conclusion:

Spoiler: show

If timmer / Elohcin is bad (and I realize I have not looked at Eloh's posts here), then timmer is most likely bad with Long Con and least likely bad with DFaraday / juliets.

[Epignosis]

Now I have to spend a penny.

[Epignosis]

Cause I POE think you're bad again.

Stupid POE crap and it isn't even based on my actions whatsoever.

I'm sorry, but I cannot go back and read 21 pages at this time. Jay, how about you give me a bit of what has gone on so I can weigh in and actually prove myself a bit.

woops, jack, not jay. My bad. Long day so far.

Spoiler: show

This exchange strikes me as too phony to be phony. Jack brings up "process of elimination" and Eloh calls it stupid crap and then calls Jack Jay and then corrects herself.

But did it go anywhere beyond that?

I hate doing ISOs, they wear me out. So I am doing the best I can.

Juliets -
-Just replaced in as well, I've notices and already has 23 posts within a little over 4 hours. That's pretty nuts!
-First real topic of discussion was Mac being night-killed. She says there was not a lot of suspicion on him, so maybe a redirect? Or, she says he thought Jack and chuck were bad. But I am not sure if I would put Jack or chuck as bad at this point. A set-up looks more likely.
-At one point, she questions long cons motives for voting chuck.
-Engages Glorf on a vote matter.
-doesn't say much about timmer except that he is a quiet baddie from her memory, but that he was hurt somehow and had to replace out. I believe that was who I replaced
-votes wilgy because there is n better option in her opinion but she contemplates moving her vote and acts worried
-helpful to me as I replace in

overall, I think juliets seems civ.

Spoiler: show

This reinforces my belief that if timmer / Elohcin is bad, then DFaraday / juliets is not and vice-versa.

LC
-his sus of nutella seems to be reaching
-he demeanor this game is playful
-he doesn't seem too invested in the game, just doing enough to get by
-I don't like how he handles the suspicion that he and nutella are teammates. I know she turned out civ, but still.

Alright....I can see an LC vote in my future after reading through his posts. He just doesn't look civ to me

I'm unconvinced by LC's Epi case and am considering voting LC today.

I'd be down with this after my ISO of him yesterday.

Spoiler: show

This looks like someone unsatisfied with her teammate's play.

I'm unconvinced by LC's Epi case and am considering voting LC today.

I'd be down with this after my ISO of him yesterday.

Tell me about that.

I posted on it yesterday. I swear people see the name Elohcin and just skip over my posts.

Spoiler: show

Rabbit vote analysis:

Rabbit makes a point of having voted for LC but not necessarily intending to stay on him and indeed points out when he is no longer doing so. He never really explains why he voted LC. (Sloonei may have called him on this, prompting the later comment.) Is this AI for Rabbit if LC's alignment is known? Or vice versa? Not sure.

Rabbit ends up voting DF, a fairly big train, without saying why. This assists with the no lynch tie.

Rabbit does not vote Day 2.

Day 3, Rabbit votes Mac over Nutella. He talked about the later a bit but not the former. Ultimately, with 4 competing townie vote trains, in not sure this matters much but the discrepancy between words and actions is notable.

Day 4, Rabbit misses the vote.



I'd be good with a Rabbit lynch.

This is a very good analysis. I was ready to vote LC after reading him, but rabbit seems to be a good vote also. I am up for either of the two. The following quote only makes me think LC and rabbit are teammates. I mean, first of all, that rabbit voted lc but changed it to a bandwagon and never went through with the lc vote...that seems like slight distancing. But then LC says this...

I also called Rabbit out for his pressure-less vote on me.

"C'mon guyths...give me sthome cthiv cred."

I also called Rabbit out for his pressure-less vote on me.

"C'mon guyths...give me sthome cthiv cred."

You almost attained credibility, but then you tried to make me look like some insipid, lisping freak, and I realized that you and rabbit are probably teammates. Civs don't need to dress up the facts with that kind of extra pizazz in order to cxonvince people of it.

There's been plenty of talk about lynching me, and that rabbit discussion went by without anyone noting my contribution. I am Civ, and it was real, so I brought it up. Nice of you to jump on it so aggressively though.

[VOTE: rabbit8] aubergine

I wasn't being aggressive, I was trying to be funny. I guess you didn't laugh.

I think most of the time, I only amuse myself.

Spoiler: show

I am torn here. Eloh called LC and rabbit teammates, and LC called Eloh and rabbit , neither of which isn't the case, but Eloh jeered LC over something he said over it (and I thought it was her posting from her phone). LC only reciprocated with the "you-are-rabbit's-teammate" and then voted rabbit. So they both suspect each other but are voting together? This is a potential teammate interaction and it could easily be the case that only one of them is a civilian and the other was being bold.

Elohcin

Replaced timmer Day 4.

- says hello
- says she'll be lazy and asks for someone to catch her up
- complains about POE suspicion inherited from timmer
- agrees with speedchuck's assessment that Jack's POE is baseless
- asks again for some catchup help

The next one is interesting enogh to warrant a real quote:

I'm sorry, but I cannot go back and read 21 pages at this time. Jay, how about you give me a bit of what has gone on so I can weigh in and actually prove myself a bit.

Glor claimed town so we know he's town.

Sloonei came out Slooneiing. I and a few others expressed belief he was good. Mac said he was bad. Speed then replaced Sloonei and while not doing amazing, hasn't pinged me at all. Epi has also expressed belief he is good.

Mac and Wilgy more or less got himself lynched and Mac almost did the same but was nightkilled for some reason.

I'd appreciate it if you would ISO Juliets/Timmer, LC, Rabbit and weigh in on them.

I'll try to do all of these asap. I'll go in order of what you listed. are we in 23 hour nights?

"I'll go in order of what you listed." Why was that something she needed to say? Well, if she and rabbit are teammates, then that puts the teammate-analysis furthest away... gives her a chance to put eyes on someone earlier in the list. Maybe she won't get around to her teammate at all...? Just a weird thing to say, why would Eloh need for us to know she's doing them in his order? Easy way out of "hey you didn't really look at rabbit and he turned out bad, maybe you're his teammate?" "No, it wasn't even my order, I was just following Jack's instructions!" Y'know? Guess we shoud wait for rabbit's flip before we return to this slightly incriminating bit.

-- ISO on juliets, looks pretty standard, but there's one part that caught my attention:

"-First real topic of discussion was Mac being night-killed. She says there was not a lot of suspicion on him, so maybe a redirect? Or, she says he thought Jack and chuck were bad. But I am not sure if I would put Jack or chuck as bad at this point. A set-up looks more likely. "

So, if your conclusion is that Mac is not killed by his suspects Speed and Jack... and that a set-up is more likely... then why didn't you follow up on that? And if it's a set-up, then why would you give juliets a nice soft blanket civread, when she's the one that gently pointed the finger at Jack and Speed? Why wouldn't you question her motives, if you really think it's a set-up?

Blaaaaah, rabbit8 was Civ.... I'll post this anyway, although it contains some rabbit-assumption-bad stuff.

Long story short, the rest of it is "blah blah LC is bad"

You're just mad because I made fun of you.

To answer your questions though, I came into this game as a civ, but as a civ replacing someone who apparently did not have the trust of the people. I have to earn that trust, not from a zero starting point, but from a negative spot (if that makes sense). I'm not big into ISOs, but I wanted to try to get to some in if I could find the time because Jack asked me to do so and just after reading some of jack, I felt he could be trusted. I did them in the order that they were requested, and said I would, because I felt that they were probably listed in an order of importance of the requester. Obviously, Juliets was first on Jack's mind as he listed her first and so on. I knew I would probably not get to all of them. I'm sorry, but I run this household, take care of my children 24 damn 7 (don't get me wrong, they are my life right now but can you imagine being with all your children 24/7? I do it because it is what's right for our family), and run a 20 hour a week business. But I do my best to help out (i.e. subbing in) and I enjoy playing this game because it helps me escape RL just a bit.

What I don't understand from your post is this part, "So, if your conclusion is that Mac is not killed by his suspects Speed and Jack... and that a set-up is more likely... then why didn't you follow up on that? And if it's a set-up, then why would you give juliets a nice soft blanket civread, when she's the one that gently pointed the finger at Jack and Speed? Why wouldn't you question her motives, if you really think it's a set-up?" I didn't say anything about a set-up. You are going to have to explain what all you mean. I said maybe mac was killed because of a redirect. meaning, maybe the mafia didn't mean to kill him. I said this because Jules said that there wasn't a lot of sus on him. I don't see what this has to do with any kind of set-up that I would need to look further into or how I could be suspected for not looking into it. Maybe I am just ignorant and not seeing something. But I don't think that is the thing here.

Spoiler: show

I'm just gonna let y'all bitches work this one out.

Well that sucks. We are having terrible luck.

To Long Con: I never said anything about a re-direct. I never said I thought jack and speed were bad. I didn't gently point at Jack and speed. What do you mean question my motives? I'm confused by this whole section of your post about me.

If you didn't do that, then have ytou questioned Eloh about saying "She says there was not a lot of suspicion on him, so maybe a redirect? Or, she says he thought Jack and chuck were bad. "

This is from Elohcin's evaluation of your ISO, juliets. Why do you question it and deny everything when I say it, and ignore it when Eloh says it?

you are misreading my post. I said maybe a re-direct based on jules saying mac didn;t have much sus on him. that is all.

Now that you've read the roles, and you are sure there are no redirects, do you think Mac was killed by his suspects, or do you think it was a set-up?

I don't think he was killed by his suspects. He suspected sloon/chuck and jack according to jules and I don't have any pings from either of those players. Jack, for sure seems civ to me. Chuck, well, doesn't seem bad. I do like what he said about POE in a game where no baddies have been lynched yet though. But atm, that's all I actually remember him saying so far this game. I don't seem to notice him all too much. That could be good or that could be bad.

Spoiler: show

This is the least teammate-suggestive thing in their history.

Conclusion:

Spoiler: show

Most of this is compatible with what I concluded regarding timmer, but the last few exchanges with Long Con are less conclusive. My belief is they are both bad and putting on an act. It looks too exaggerated, but so did that funny business with "Jay" up there. Discuss.

[Epignosis]

I believe INH is who he says he is, so I'm skipping him.

[Epignosis]

I'm not going through Jack's picture posts. I'm not interpreting faces and wolf heads. If you want to do that, be my guest.

Spent line twenty minutes trying to make a rainbow list on mobile with quotes and smilies and my daughter closed the damn tab.

Fuck it.

Kyle and Mac are bad.

LC and Nutella are meh.

INH, Sloonei, Epi are good.

And of course Glor is good.

Spoiler: show

False and false.

True and False.

True and and True.

And of course True.

Agreed with Speedchuck about the low vote counts being easy prey for scummers.

I have a slight scumread on Long Con and I still think Mac is bad. Otherwise, I pretty well agree with that list.

Very slight town read on Rabbit.

Lol salad. U bad. Suxorz.

Tell me more.

I have one bar of h.

Huh?

Spoiler: show

This isn't a potential teammate interaction, but MacDougall and Jack had this exchange right before the former's demise.

Why kill Mac? Even if he wasn't a suspect, he wasn't doing a lot to help the town. He even said himself he wasn't playing s very good game.

It's possible Frodo has some sort of misdirection power.

Spoiler: show

oh my gosh, DF only had 8 posts. Is that why you have him so low on your list Jack? Or anyone else that suspects him?

He's done little to make me think he's town.

okay, I am going to be lazy. I see we have 10 players....wait...9 since wilgy was just lynched (RIP). Can anyone tell me how many mafia we have left and how many are civs? Anyone care to give me a rundown of what is going on? Or are you all just a bunch of inactive nerds?

If you look at the first page you can see how many of each faction are in the game (3 mafia) and that all the lynches to date have been civs. So unless the mafia killed one of their own at night - highly unlikely - there are three mafia still in the game. That leaves 6 civs if I did the math right.

That's interesting Jack but I have certainly seen the set-up in games that I have played, maybe on other sites but several of these players - Long Con, rabbit, Epi, INH - played on those sites with me. So I still think it's possible. Also why didn't you vote?

linki

Cause I was unloading groceries and fielding Fire Emblem questions.

I'll let you know who I would have voted for in a bit when I catch up. Absolutely wouldn't have been Dr Elf Eyes tho.

Spoiler: show

I see this as potential teammates prodding each other.

Have people been voting at the last minute in this game?

It's a problem.

Due to my excellent pattern recognition abilities, I have discovered that days that end at 7 pm are really sucky for me. My son goes to bed around 7 and my daughter around 8. I do mt best work between those two hours while rocking the baby or waiting for the kiddo to finish washing her hands. Or while it's a slow work day. Or after 8 when I'm in bed and my wife is asleep or close to it (the kids are small and we are sleep deprived).

So basically 5-7 is my least productive mafia time and that's when I'm needed most in this game. I'll try to get a vote down and say what needs to be said before 5 from now on.

Also I think you are bad.

Got to end of day. I'd have voted Long Con.

Spoiler: show

I don't understand why Jack would have voted LC if he genuinely believed juliets was bad.

Suspects

Timmer/Eloh: Nothing Timmer has done all game has sunk in. I don't like any of his votes except the DF one. I think Timmer really wanted DF dead when going after DF early on...but then didn't really try again. Possible antialign with DFJuliets. Possible buddy with LC as he basically dismisses accusations on LC with a "wait and see" attitude I expect from wolfmates.

DF is just kinda DF. Juliets comes in and is super nice and gracious and then follows Epi on a bad lynch, preventing LC from being lynched. Comes across as buddying. Here's the thing, though. She does the same to LC. Also there's the potential anti alignment with Timmer/Eloh.

LC: Just tone pinging me all game. I think his Speedchuck vote explanation is junk.

Need to reread LC and DF fully.

Kinda leaning towards a Timmer/Eloh + LC scumteam but I need to find the other baddie cause it's probably not Juliets.

Spoiler: show

If Jack is bad, I daresay one of Eloh and juliets are good. I doubt Jack and LC are bad together.

Cause I POE think you're bad again.

Stupid POE crap and it isn't even based on my actions whatsoever.

I concur. How does one 'POE' in a game with no scumflips, all-vanilla roles, etc?

Having Eloh as a scumread just because you have stronger townreads on everyone else is not POE, because nobody is truly eliminated. It's more just bad scumhunting that lynches people like Wilgy.

I didn't vote for Wilgy, eh? I argued against that. But even so, the WIlgy lynch wasn't a terrible one because Wilgy didn't work to keep it from happening. (This is frustrating to me. I've lost at least two games due to Wilgy mislynch. Yet I've also seen him nail half the baddies on Day 1 without using words. I don't need Wilgy to hit home runs every game but I'd appreciate him at least swinging every at bat.)

Anyway, this sounds like a wording problem to me. POE is constant. I am always trying to take a suspect pool and narrow it down to decide the best lynch choice. If I "eliminate" you from my suspect pool because I think you are good and I "eliminate" Mac from my suspect pool cause he's dead and I know there are 3 baddies left out of x players and I reduce that to y players to make us more likely to lynch baddies...how is this objectionable?

Yeah, it's easier with cops or scum flips but this is the same thing we do anyway.

Spoiler: show

This looks like teammate interaction from my experience. I'm not saying it is, only that it looks like it.

I'm sorry, but I cannot go back and read 21 pages at this time. Jay, how about you give me a bit of what has gone on so I can weigh in and actually prove myself a bit.

Glor claimed town so we know he's town.

Sloonei came out Slooneiing. I and a few others expressed belief he was good. Mac said he was bad. Speed then replaced Sloonei and while not doing amazing, hasn't pinged me at all. Epi has also expressed belief he is good.

Mac and Wilgy more or less got himself lynched and Mac almost did the same but was nightkilled for some reason.

I'd appreciate it if you would ISO Juliets/Timmer, LC, Rabbit and weigh in on them.

Spoiler: show

Jay again.

From this, we can conclude that Jack's group of candidates consists of Eloh, "juliets/timmer" (holy shit guys, keep up), LC, and rabbit.

speedchuck

So do you think I'm not hunting?

Eloh's free to try to take herself off the suspect list. I'm not going to lynch a high poster who I think is town over a low poster I have no read on in the name of fairness.

Yeah, I guess that's fair. I just usually use 'POE' to refer to certainties. And I have nothing certain in this game. None of the lynches or nightkills have really provided any insight.

I guess we have Glorf though.

Spoiler: show

Softball shit.

Voting LC for now. He's been worrying me most of the game but not as much when I ISOed him.

Ultimately, he still has several points against him.

1) I don't feel his Epi case
2) I disagree with his Nutella case, which was proven wrong.
3) I could see him as w/w with Timmer
4) I could see him w/w with DF

Spoiler: show

If Jack is bad WITH Long Con, then he is almost certainly not bad with juliets or Elohcin.

[Epignosis]

I'm going to put my vote on DFaraday.

I agree with his briefest of points about rabbit, that he hasn't contributed much, but then again, neither has Wilgy (all jokes), neither has DF himself ( posts), or novaselinenever (barely here), neither have I, really. In a game full of quiet players, singling one out who doesn't have an established meta while others with established metas run rampant with jokes etc and you give them a pass just feels cheap and like something a mafia would do. Why tangle with a meta people know when you can vote the new guy?

Timmer is, intentionally or not, misrepresenting my admittedly terrible case.

My point was specifically that Rabbit seemed to have a high post count and low on-topic content. I went back and looked, at the time I voted Rabbit had made about 15 posts, Wilgy had made 12 (and literally half of those were posted altogether as a meme reference), and I had made one. And about half the players in this game (myself included) have quite a bit of experience playing with Rabbit in the past. I certainly remember him as always being jokey and strange, but also making insightful observations and taking strong stances. He does seem to have been engaging more later in the day, to be fair.

If anything, Timmer seems to be taking an easy option here and setting up a quiet player who makes weak votes as an easy target.

Spoiler: show

Once again, I find it hard to believe that timmer / Elohcin and DFaraday / juliets are teammates.

Conclusion:

Spoiler: show

I'm not going to quote them, but juliets most recent interactions between her and Long Con do not strike me as teammate material at this stage.

[Glorfindel]

I only just found out I was dead Good to know I won't be missed... Thanks for the game guys (for the final time). It's been fun. Best of luck to you all. Glorf over and out!

[Long Con]

Epi turning up the jets here. I know y'all ain't gonna lynch him, and that's fine, but I still think he's bad, and laying it on strong here in order to get that one single mislynch vote from a Civ so they can end the game.

insertnamehere would be an obvious teammate with Epignosis, since he's almost completely ignored in this analysis.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Epi's gonna hate this post but idgaf.

Epi's last few posts are basically exactly what I expect cause Timmer and DF had a pretty small amount of posts. My main concern is that JJJ voice in the back of my head like "Jack is only drawing the most obvious teammate conclusions" but you know what? DF and Timmer are not Jimmy or Wilgy. I'm not gonna have the same WIFOM problems with them. I'll double down. I don't think Juliets and Eloh are teammates.

[mention]Epignosis[/mention]

I could answer your concerns about me but I don't see a universe where I get lynch today and I'd rather not spend a lolo day defending myself instead of finding baddies. That said, I think you're town and I don't want your suspicions of me to cause you to vote for the wrong player.

Can you assume I'm town just for today?

[Jackofhearts2005]

[mention]Long Con[/mention]

If you don't answer my question, I don't see myself voting for anybody but you.

[Long Con]

Epi's gonna hate this post but idgaf.

Epi's last few posts are basically exactly what I expect cause Timmer and DF had a pretty small amount of posts. My main concern is that JJJ voice in the back of my head like "Jack is only drawing the most obvious teammate conclusions" but you know what? DF and Timmer are not Jimmy or Wilgy. I'm not gonna have the same WIFOM problems with them. I'll double down. I don't think Juliets and Eloh are teammates.

@Epignosis

I could answer your concerns about me but I don't see a universe where I get lynch today and I'd rather not spend a lolo day defending myself instead of finding baddies. That said, I think you're town and I don't want your suspicions of me to cause you to vote for the wrong player.

Can you assume I'm town just for today?

[Long Con]

@Long Con

If you don't answer my question, I don't see myself voting for anybody but you.

Ok, you want me to go through and find posts that pinged me? I'll do it. Sorry, I just got caught up in Fire Emblem after being out last night and not Mafiaing at all, so that took some time. I'll devote some time here now. You really should not vote for me.

[Long Con]

I'm not seeing too much from the Emoji times... this was there a bit, but it just seems flat now. Your noble emoticon explanation is fair.

I forgot to give bonus points for posting a big picture of Onslaught. I still have all the comics in the Onslaught saga. It was pretty bad, actually. But awesome pic!

And I skipped over the last half of the last page of your ISO because I'm over it now. I think I had built up many small resentments for the times you suspected and voted for me.

Long Con
Jackofhearts2005
insertnamehere
speedchuck
juliets
Elohcin
Epignosis

[Long Con]

But I also see the merit in the idea that juliets and Elohcin are not w/w... so maybe speedchuck?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm not seeing too much from the Emoji times... this was there a bit, but it just seems flat now. Your noble emoticon explanation is fair.

I forgot to give bonus points for posting a big picture of Onslaught. I still have all the comics in the Onslaught saga. It was pretty bad, actually. But awesome pic!

And I skipped over the last half of the last page of your ISO because I'm over it now. I think I had built up many small resentments for the times you suspected and voted for me.

Long Con
Jackofhearts2005
insertnamehere
speedchuck
juliets
Elohcin
Epignosis

I think LC is bad.

A pattern I've noticed is that when LC is bad, he will put forth a small attack or two to test mislynch waters (this is common for all scum) and (this part is particular for LC) if I go at him heavily, he backs off almost immediately, presumably in an attempt to diffuse the situation.

This is most noticeable in Mass Effect but even in that game, there was a game before that caused me to think he was bad in Mass Effect.

[Long Con]

I'm not seeing too much from the Emoji times... this was there a bit, but it just seems flat now. Your noble emoticon explanation is fair.

I forgot to give bonus points for posting a big picture of Onslaught. I still have all the comics in the Onslaught saga. It was pretty bad, actually. But awesome pic!

And I skipped over the last half of the last page of your ISO because I'm over it now. I think I had built up many small resentments for the times you suspected and voted for me.

Long Con
Jackofhearts2005
insertnamehere
speedchuck
juliets
Elohcin
Epignosis

I think LC is bad.

A pattern I've noticed is that when LC is bad, he will put forth a small attack or two to test mislynch waters (this is common for all scum) and (this part is particular for LC) if I go at him heavily, he backs off almost immediately, presumably in an attempt to diffuse the situation.

This is most noticeable in Mass Effect but even in that game, there was a game before that caused me to think he was bad in Mass Effect.

Well, you'd better update your supposed pattern after this game then. Promise me now.

And wasn't I Indy in Mass Effect?

[Long Con]

If I were bad with two other players right now, on the verge of a clean sweep, I wouldn't care so much because we'd probably win anyway. But this is LYLO or MYLO or some crap, right? You lynch me, and this all ends.

[Jackofhearts2005]

If I were bad with two other players right now, on the verge of a clean sweep, I wouldn't care so much because we'd probably win anyway. But this is LYLO or MYLO or some crap, right? You lynch me, and this all ends.

Your scumgroup required Epi to be bad AND Eloh and Juliets to be bad together.

The numbers make more sense if you are bad.

I'm not going to what if lylo this with you cause I don't know how greedy you are at endgame as scum.

[Long Con]

Have fun with your numbers then dude, see you next game.

[Long Con]

No, this is dumb. INH is Frodo, Jack is Civ, and so am I.

Elohcin, speedchuck, Epignosis, juliets.

The three scum are in there.

THREE!!!!!!!!!!

If juliets and Elohcin are not both scum, then Epignosis and speedchuck are guaranteed to be Mafia.

[speedchuck]

I'm willing to believe INH. At this juncture, if the 'real' Frodo is somewhere else in the game, they should counterclaim even at the risk of the ring. Otherwise we lose because INH's gambit townfirms him and goes uncontested.

Getting a strong town vibe from Jack. Honestly, I have been ever since the emojis in early game. I've been scum with Jack, and that doesn't seem like scum jack.

LC, motive/attitude-wise, I could go either way with. Either he's town and frustrated about being suspected all game, or he's scum that has staved off the lynch through passivity and is now letting things go as they may since he has two teammates left and town is stuck in LYLO permanently.
That's why I don't listen to emotive arguments. They're full of WIFOM.
I feel like I see a lack of genuine effort, but hey, I'm there too. Fire Emblem Mafia, Buffy, etc.
Biggest problem I have is that I don't like LC's positions on some of the reads and wagons he's participated in. The JoH pull-off, as of recent, doesn't seem genuine to me.
I should probably do some votal analysis.

Elohcin's one of those players I never know how to read, but she's seemed less uptight this game. I feel like that's an ongoing evolution of her non-alignment-indicative meta now, which is cool. She hasn't really pinged me.

Epi's one ping on me came from his tinfoil on the Frodo claim, but... considering when the claim came in, it could have been a scum claim. I thought about the reasons Frodo might not want to counterclaim, and how close mafia were to winning... I get the tinfoil knee-jerk reaction. The analysis since then has been informative and honest, focused on solving the game.
Epi's scum game is really freaking good, but I still feel pretty good about this iteration.

Juliets pinged me as town early in my replacement, but I can't seem to figure out why. I think that any read of her I had got dashed when she posted that confusing gibberish after INH's claim. I'm still trying to figure out what that might mean for her alignment. Could possibly be half of a scumslip that she overcompensated for and obfuscated.

Speedchuck
INH
JoH
Epi
Eloh
Juliets
LC

I guess. Bottom three for scum.

linki: ok

[juliets]

I'm willing to believe INH. At this juncture, if the 'real' Frodo is somewhere else in the game, they should counterclaim even at the risk of the ring. Otherwise we lose because INH's gambit townfirms him and goes uncontested.

Getting a strong town vibe from Jack. Honestly, I have been ever since the emojis in early game. I've been scum with Jack, and that doesn't seem like scum jack.

LC, motive/attitude-wise, I could go either way with. Either he's town and frustrated about being suspected all game, or he's scum that has staved off the lynch through passivity and is now letting things go as they may since he has two teammates left and town is stuck in LYLO permanently.
That's why I don't listen to emotive arguments. They're full of WIFOM.
I feel like I see a lack of genuine effort, but hey, I'm there too. Fire Emblem Mafia, Buffy, etc.
Biggest problem I have is that I don't like LC's positions on some of the reads and wagons he's participated in. The JoH pull-off, as of recent, doesn't seem genuine to me.
I should probably do some votal analysis.

Elohcin's one of those players I never know how to read, but she's seemed less uptight this game. I feel like that's an ongoing evolution of her non-alignment-indicative meta now, which is cool. She hasn't really pinged me.

Epi's one ping on me came from his tinfoil on the Frodo claim, but... considering when the claim came in, it could have been a scum claim. I thought about the reasons Frodo might not want to counterclaim, and how close mafia were to winning... I get the tinfoil knee-jerk reaction. The analysis since then has been informative and honest, focused on solving the game.
Epi's scum game is really freaking good, but I still feel pretty good about this iteration.

Juliets pinged me as town early in my replacement, but I can't seem to figure out why. I think that any read of her I had got dashed when she posted that confusing gibberish after INH's claim. I'm still trying to figure out what that might mean for her alignment. Could possibly be half of a scumslip that she overcompensated for and obfuscated.

Speedchuck
INH
JoH
Epi
Eloh
Juliets
LC

I guess. Bottom three for scum.

linki: ok

The gibberish was confusing because it made no sense whatsoever. Look at the time of day. I had just woken up and only half remembered the claim and even then thought it had been you not INH. How specifically does what I posted make me bad? I mean, make what I said make sense from a baddie perspective.

Epi's analysis on LC and timmer/Elo is interesting. My immediate reaction to timmer's posts when I subbed in was that timmer was good because a bad timmer is not talkative. I'm willing to take another look at that though since no one else can corroborate. Also as I think back on LC his reaction to my saying he should know my civ game because he's played with me enough seems a tad emotional and disingenuous. I conceded his point at the time but have been uneasy with the whole thing since. I'll take another look at him as well.

Despite what some people may think I am not bad. I can't think of any way I can prove it but rest assured if you lynch me this game is over. I'll weigh in again after I've done some research.

[speedchuck]

Oh gee I forgot we know who Sauron is. And I missed a whole bunch of posts before I posted.

I go back and forth on this post

I just--

Scum would know who Sauron was. Yeah.
But

Ugh.

[Long Con]

Look, I'm going to work. I know that's Prime Time to lynch Long Con, it has been well established.

If you are Civ, then vote for anyone on my list of four, and you'll have a 75% chance of lynching a baddie.

If you just want to end the game, then by all means vote for me and the baddies will win. I'll try to get in here in the end to vote for someone who's not me, if by chance you decide to try for a Civ win.

Later!

[Jackofhearts2005]

Oh gee I forgot we know who Sauron is. And I missed a whole bunch of posts before I posted.

I go back and forth on this post

I just--

Scum would know who Sauron was. Yeah.
But

Ugh.

[Jackofhearts2005]

*Declares attention to vote off LC*

[speedchuck]

*Declares attention to vote off LC*

I don't know what this means

[Jackofhearts2005]

*Declares attention to vote off LC*

I don't know what this means

It means that we should only give the mafia one chance to mislynch. I won't be voting unless I know there are 4 votes for my suspect.

If LC is scum, it doesn't matter if I vote or just declare my intention to vote. Mafia won't rush a hammer or they will and that's fine.
If LC is town and the town is largely convinced he's bad, it doesn't matter if I vote or just declare my intention to vote. We're screwed either way.

If LC is town and he does not have 4 town votes on him and ultimately, we lynch say Eloh (who we suppose is scum in this example) instead of LC, my not actually voting for LC now would save the game because I'm not giving the mafia a chance to hammer a townie lynch.

Probably doesn't matter. Just being careful.

[speedchuck]

Oh. Intention. Okay. Makes sense.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I misspalled something again huh?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm not even on my phone.

[speedchuck]

Oh. Intention. Okay. Makes sense.

I don't know what this means.

It's all good. I can usually tell what people mean, but you managed a completely different word that other time.

[speedchuck]

*Declares intention to vote off LC*

*declares willingness to vote alongside JoH in this endeavor*

[juliets]

Did a read through. Not much stands out mostly becauseIve lost touch with peoples usual m.o. Not a fan of Long Cons posts but the attention he's getting feels a bit easy. Holding my vote for now.

If timmer is bad, LC could be his baddiemate and he's leaving his options open for bussing him.

I'd say the votes on LC seemed a bit easy, but then so did LC's own vote, it's typical Day 1 stuff. I'll mostly be watching for people making too much of a mountain out of a day 1 molehill, that's generally what constitutes my early pings.

timmer seems to be insinuating that people voting or talking about voting LC are making a day 1 mountain out of a molehill. Is he defending LC or is this something he would never say if they are teammates.

He makes one other post that mentions Long Con that Epi pointed out in his analysis.

He spends the majority of the rest of his posts talking about DFaraday, voting him, why he's voting him, and responding to him. After reading this I really can't see how people might think timmer and Faraday were bad together. I wonder if his vote for Faraday was in part an attempt to save LC.

I don't see much else going on in timmer's posts.

I'll take a look at Elo and then go back to LC for another look since I see people are declaring they can vote for him.

[Jackofhearts2005]

*Declares intention to vote off LC*

*declares willingness to vote alongside JoH in this endeavor*

[juliets]

I really don't have anything to add to Epi's analysis of Elo and agree that though some of it looks teammate indicative with LC, some of it doesn't. I don't think I can conclusively say she is bad or bad with LC.

What strikes me in particular though is more about LC and that crazy business where he quoted mine and Elo's posts and said we said things we didn't say. I guess I should just go on to LC at this point. I'll concentrate on his latest posts and just review what I already wrote about his earlier posts.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I still don't understand who said what in that mess that you guys were posting. I'm ignoring it. If it's important, it should be restated in a way that I can tell who is saying what.

[juliets]

I still don't understand who said what in that mess that you guys were posting. I'm ignoring it. If it's important, it should be restated in a way that I can tell who is saying what.

I think mine and Elo's posts are easy enough to understand but LC's is so convoluted I don't know that I can clarify it well. It appears to me that he didn't read the original posts well which makes me think he was just looking for something to jump on. When I get to that part I'll see what I can do. I have to take a break now though.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I still don't understand who said what in that mess that you guys were posting. I'm ignoring it. If it's important, it should be restated in a way that I can tell who is saying what.

I think mine and Elo's posts are easy enough to understand but LC's is so convoluted I don't know that I can clarify it well. It appears to me that he didn't read the original posts well which makes me think he was just looking for something to jump on. When I get to that part I'll see what I can do. I have to take a break now though.

Who are you thinking of voting for?