Pikachu Tribe - Day 9

[S~V~S]

Oh doh, well then never mind ha ha

[S~V~S]

I was so proud of that post, now I feel like an idiot, doh.

[sprityo]

I guess this re affirms speed’s theory of cross tribe btsc

Which means mafia is probably with us in here, and maybe they’re only targeting the other tribe currently? Giving one team two kills is weird afterall

[Long Con]

If it's any consolation, S~V~S, that was a very Civvish post to make. The mistake just looks Civvier, really.

So nutella had BTSC across tribes for the whole first phase. I'd be interested in knowing some of the answers to our other-tribe questions... like who was lynched on Day 1, for starters. I think that the infodropping rule doesn't apply once her role is outed.

[juliets]

I think that the infodropping rule doesn't apply once her role is outed.

Please note, the infodumping rule still applies to a role even though it has been outted.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I might actually agree with Epi here.

Having town fail to lynch me over and over would have been nasty.

Be that as it may, I lead a lynch on you. Do you think I am a civilian?

A little, but not much.

You made some points which I thought were unfair as fuck but that I expect you to make because it's you.

I'm more pingy of the half-assed reasons given by the people who followed you. Mainly peedchuck and Nutella.

[Long Con]

I think that the infodropping rule doesn't apply once her role is outed.

Please note, the infodumping rule still applies to a role even though it has been outted.

Has talking about other-thread knowledge been defined as info-dumping? So nutella couldn't say "nijuu told me they lynched juliets on Cerberus Tribe Day 1"?

[colonialbob]

I might actually agree with Epi here.

Having town fail to lynch me over and over would have been nasty.

Be that as it may, I lead a lynch on you. Do you think I am a civilian?

A little, but not much.

You made some points which I thought were unfair as fuck but that I expect you to make because it's you.

I'm more pingy of the half-assed reasons given by the people who followed you. Mainly peedchuck and Nutella.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Quin keeps reading much, much better than in FE.

I don't want to vote for him.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Nutella having cross-tribe BTSC actually sounds like a civ role. Why does mafia need it if they already have BTSC (assuming they do)?

[Long Con]

hey long con before i actually bother to give a damn about any of that can you tell me why you're ignoring literally all of my content prior to the latter half of day 2?

I reviewed it. It was weak. Do you want to go and point out the strengths to refute that, or did you want me to go at it?

go at it, please.

Here you go. I felt too lazy right now to do it, so I time traveled into the past and did it there, so that it would be all ready for me now.

[Long Con]

Quin keeps reading much, much better than in FE.

I don't want to vote for him.

What does that mean, that he's reading better?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Quin keeps reading much, much better than in FE.

I don't want to vote for him.

What does that mean, that he's reading better?

I don't know man he's just more pro-active/interested in solving the game. Like he actually gives a shit.

I reckon I can't talk about ongoing games tho I'm only saying it because Quin is dead there and it's actually influencing my read here. But point is, I see a difference.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I also think LC vs Quin is civ/civ.

[Long Con]

Quin keeps reading much, much better than in FE.

I don't want to vote for him.

What does that mean, that he's reading better?

I don't know man he's just more pro-active/interested in solving the game. Like he actually gives a shit.

I reckon I can't talk about ongoing games tho I'm only saying it because Quin is dead there and it's actually influencing my read here. But point is, I see a difference.

That's not what I see.

[juliets]

I think that the infodropping rule doesn't apply once her role is outed.

Please note, the infodumping rule still applies to a role even though it has been outted.

Has talking about other-thread knowledge been defined as info-dumping? So nutella couldn't say "nijuu told me they lynched juliets on Cerberus Tribe Day 1"?

My way of thinking about it is anything that would have been infodumping when she was in the role would still be infodumping other than what role she was in. I may be too rigid in that thinking so let me think about your question and talk it over with Golden. It will have to wait until this afternoon though when we're both online again.

[Long Con]

I was looking back over nutella to see if she dropped any hints/opinions about the other thread that we could now interpret as fact. Didn't notice any of that yet, but some other thoughts anyway:

his posts look civ to me

I had a small ping when I read this. This feels like something the mafia could easily say about a Civ because they know they're right, and there's no strong need for justification. So I went back and looked over sprityo's posts up until this point, and found that I agree with nutella. A lot of it centres on his casual reveal of not sending in a haiku, and the discourse around that. Made me start thinking about Epignosis' opinion on it:

Question for the field:

What did i miss huh?
I did not submit a poem
I mean haiku. oops.

If you are mafia, is your first move to admit that you did not submit a poem?

I debated this point before, but I do feel like it has some merit. "Interesting" to note that this is a loose example of Epignosis mirroring nutella's thoughts - opposite to idea that nut parrots Epi, or whatever it was.

[Long Con]

Finished nutella read up to Day 2... no indications I could see of otherthread info dips.

Nutella having cross-tribe BTSC actually sounds like a civ role. Why does mafia need it if they already have BTSC (assuming they do)?

This is a good point. Could also be an opportunity for a baddie to BTSC-buddy a Civ, and the role's text - You have BTSC with Proton. You will be sent a chat link for BTSC and must log in as "Electron" - supports that by allowing anonymity.

Now that I think about it though, nijuu was nightkilled. I don't really see how a Mafia team would choose to kill their own team member's Civ BTSC partner. Then again, misdirects happen, there could be two Mafias, etc

[Long Con]

I also think LC vs Quin is civ/civ.

Always good to meet a fan.

So, Luffy, the DDL-nutella lynch appeared to be 6 - 3 in your unfavour. With your -2 adjustment, it's still 4 - 3 for you.

What happened?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I also think LC vs Quin is civ/civ.

Always good to meet a fan.

So, Luffy, the DDL-nutella lynch appeared to be 6 - 3 in your unfavour. With your -2 adjustment, it's still 4 - 3 for you.

What happened?

No idea. I know as much as the rest of you, including the part where Golden makes a mistake and lynches me wrong.

Apparently some other ability was in play which the hosts initially ignored.

[Long Con]

Finished nutella read up to Day 2... no indications I could see of otherthread info dips.

Nutella having cross-tribe BTSC actually sounds like a civ role. Why does mafia need it if they already have BTSC (assuming they do)?

This is a good point. Could also be an opportunity for a baddie to BTSC-buddy a Civ, and the role's text - You have BTSC with Proton. You will be sent a chat link for BTSC and must log in as "Electron" - supports that by allowing anonymity.

Now that I think about it though, nijuu was nightkilled. I don't really see how a Mafia team would choose to kill their own team member's Civ BTSC partner. Then again, misdirects happen, there could be two Mafias, etc

A thought I had after I already posted: depending on whether or not nutella and nijuu revealed their identities in their BTSC, nutella could be on a baddie team that unwittingly targeted nijuu on Night 1, not realizing who she was.

[Long Con]

I also think LC vs Quin is civ/civ.

Always good to meet a fan.

So, Luffy, the DDL-nutella lynch appeared to be 6 - 3 in your unfavour. With your -2 adjustment, it's still 4 - 3 for you.

What happened?

No idea. I know as much as the rest of you, including the part where Golden makes a mistake and lynches me wrong.

Apparently some other ability was in play which the hosts initially ignored.

Do you miss your first role? Can you tell us who you applied -2 votes to?

...or is that infodumping, hosts? Not trying to be a big Dutchie loophole-pusher with all this, but my understanding of infodumping rules is that they're about not cheapening games with things like "I just alignment-checked X last night", or people all just claiming a Civ role and ending the game like a fixed game of Musical Chairs. Revealing who you targeted after your role is outed, or similarly, revealing things you know from your outed role, are pretty comfortably fair game. Of course, I'm a firm believer in the Spirit of the Rules, over the Letter of the Law. The info I'm asking for is not game-damaging by any metric.

[speedchuck]

Okay, well...

DDL, you are a hard man to kill.

[Long Con]

Okay, well...

DDL, you are a hard man to kill.

Well, less hard to kill now, since he has shed his lynch-protected role. This just gives us the gleeful opportunity to kill DDL three times in one game!

[speedchuck]

Okay, well...

DDL, you are a hard man to kill.

Well, less hard to kill now, since he has shed his lynch-protected role. This just gives us the gleeful opportunity to kill DDL three times in one game!

Do you think we should?

[Long Con]

Okay, well...

DDL, you are a hard man to kill.

Well, less hard to kill now, since he has shed his lynch-protected role. This just gives us the gleeful opportunity to kill DDL three times in one game!

Do you think we should?

I don't know. I'm trying to have a look at Dom's posts to see if he lines up as a possible baddie. So far in my read he has mostly just focused on you, and also that thing I'm not acknowledging. He really hammered hard on you, basically over you putting him on the baddie side of your reads. Some call that OMGUS / No U, but it might be a regular Dom thing as well.

[speedchuck]

Okay, well...

DDL, you are a hard man to kill.

Well, less hard to kill now, since he has shed his lynch-protected role. This just gives us the gleeful opportunity to kill DDL three times in one game!

Do you think we should?

I don't know. I'm trying to have a look at Dom's posts to see if he lines up as a possible baddie. So far in my read he has mostly just focused on you, and also that thing I'm not acknowledging. He really hammered hard on you, basically over you putting him on the baddie side of your reads. Some call that OMGUS / No U, but it might be a regular Dom thing as well.

Perhaps.

With DDL, let's think objectively of the facts for a moment.

DDL is tied with me one day. I am lynched, flip as a doctor.
DDL is lynched the next day. Flips as a vote manipulator.
Vote manipulator is more statistically likely to be scum than doctor, I think. Based on game balance and synergy.
Then the death gets retconned somehow, and a BTSC role dies, leaving DDL with two lives.
BTSC role, as has been discussed, is likely town for mechanical/balance reasons.

...

DDL does not look to be in a good place.

[nutella]

I didn't learn anything from the btsc

[nutella]

Okay, well...

DDL, you are a hard man to kill.

Well, less hard to kill now, since he has shed his lynch-protected role. This just gives us the gleeful opportunity to kill DDL three times in one game!

Do you think we should?

I don't know. I'm trying to have a look at Dom's posts to see if he lines up as a possible baddie. So far in my read he has mostly just focused on you, and also that thing I'm not acknowledging. He really hammered hard on you, basically over you putting him on the baddie side of your reads. Some call that OMGUS / No U, but it might be a regular Dom thing as well.

Perhaps.

With DDL, let's think objectively of the facts for a moment.

DDL is tied with me one day. I am lynched, flip as a doctor.
DDL is lynched the next day. Flips as a vote manipulator.
Vote manipulator is more statistically likely to be scum than doctor, I think. Based on game balance and synergy.
Then the death gets retconned somehow, and a BTSC role dies, leaving DDL with two lives.
BTSC role, as has been discussed, is likely town for mechanical/balance reasons.

...

DDL does not look to be in a good place.

hmmm

[DharmaHelper]

If I catch up to these posts and the general idea is "I dunno" I'm gonna hold you all responsible.

[speedchuck]

If I catch up to these posts and the general idea is "I dunno" I'm gonna hold you all responsible.

[DharmaHelper]

We can expect the "end the day early" guy to be mafia if that role ever flips

[DharmaHelper]

My dream said I had to lynch nutella. AFAIK I was the only vote on nutella at the time she was lynched and her lynch has opened up a lot of theories and discussion about previously murky topics.


I am actually prophetic.

[DharmaHelper]

I also think LC vs Quin is civ/civ.

Always good to meet a fan.

So, Luffy, the DDL-nutella lynch appeared to be 6 - 3 in your unfavour. With your -2 adjustment, it's still 4 - 3 for you.

What happened?

No idea. I know as much as the rest of you, including the part where Golden makes a mistake and lynches me wrong.

Apparently some other ability was in play which the hosts initially ignored.

Welcome to the GOC Technicality club my man

[speedchuck]

I'd currently lynch Long Con over Nutella, and those are the only two votes on the board.

Why do you want Nutella kicked out of the tribe, DH?

Darn it I wanna vote Dom today.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Okay, well...

DDL, you are a hard man to kill.

Well, less hard to kill now, since he has shed his lynch-protected role. This just gives us the gleeful opportunity to kill DDL three times in one game!

Do you think we should?

I don't know. I'm trying to have a look at Dom's posts to see if he lines up as a possible baddie. So far in my read he has mostly just focused on you, and also that thing I'm not acknowledging. He really hammered hard on you, basically over you putting him on the baddie side of your reads. Some call that OMGUS / No U, but it might be a regular Dom thing as well.

Perhaps.

With DDL, let's think objectively of the facts for a moment.

DDL is tied with me one day. I am lynched, flip as a doctor.
DDL is lynched the next day. Flips as a vote manipulator.
Vote manipulator is more statistically likely to be scum than doctor, I think. Based on game balance and synergy.
Then the death gets retconned somehow, and a BTSC role dies, leaving DDL with two lives.
BTSC role, as has been discussed, is likely town for mechanical/balance reasons.

...

DDL does not look to be in a good place.

My counter-argument

Town in this game (myself included) has been shit all game and scum is blending well.

[Long Con]

I'd currently lynch Long Con over Nutella, and those are the only two votes on the board.

Why do you want Nutella kicked out of the tribe, DH?

Darn it I wanna vote Dom today.

Why do you want to lynch me?

[speedchuck]

Perhaps.

With DDL, let's think objectively of the facts for a moment.

DDL is tied with me one day. I am lynched, flip as a doctor.
DDL is lynched the next day. Flips as a vote manipulator.
Vote manipulator is more statistically likely to be scum than doctor, I think. Based on game balance and synergy.
Then the death gets retconned somehow, and a BTSC role dies, leaving DDL with two lives.
BTSC role, as has been discussed, is likely town for mechanical/balance reasons.

...

DDL does not look to be in a good place.

My counter-argument

Town in this game (myself included) has been shit all game and scum is blending well.

I dunno man. My arguments were focused on the role stuff that happened on the two lynches, as well as what you flipped with. Role stuff.

Has nothing to do with how town has been playing, though I agree.

[speedchuck]

I'd currently lynch Long Con over Nutella, and those are the only two votes on the board.

Why do you want Nutella kicked out of the tribe, DH?

Darn it I wanna vote Dom today.

Why do you want to lynch me?

I don't, not really. But you have two lives, Nutella has one. And she's already been unfairly lynched once.
Then again, you might not have two lives. And alignments can change when the roles do.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I'd currently lynch Long Con over Nutella, and those are the only two votes on the board.

Why do you want Nutella kicked out of the tribe, DH?

Darn it I wanna vote Dom today.

Give me a case. I have been confused on what to think of Dom all game.

[Long Con]

I'd currently lynch Long Con over Nutella, and those are the only two votes on the board.

Why do you want Nutella kicked out of the tribe, DH?

Darn it I wanna vote Dom today.

Why do you want to lynch me?

I don't, not really. But you have two lives, Nutella has one. And she's already been unfairly lynched once.
Then again, you might not have two lives. And alignments can change when the roles do.

Well, nutella and I aren't the only two people on the poll.

[S~V~S]

I'd currently lynch Long Con over Nutella, and those are the only two votes on the board.

Why do you want Nutella kicked out of the tribe, DH?

Darn it I wanna vote Dom today.

Give me a case. I have been confused on what to think of Dom all game.

And I would NOT lynch LC. I think I read him pretty well, and he is reading civ to me. I plan on rereading alot after work, because Nutellas flip kind of un-anchored me somewhat. And I never know what to think of Dom, I have a bit of a blind spot with him. I am most likely to follow the opinions of people I trust re Dom.

People I feel good about are DH, LC and Sprit. Neither of our lynchees seem to have had roles that sound all that bad, so I don't know that I want to perma kill either of them with so little to go on. Which leaves me with DDL, Epignosis or Quin. DDL with a qualifier that his original role did not particularly sound bad either. Although "sounding bad" may not mean much in the context of this game.

[DharmaHelper]

I'd currently lynch Long Con over Nutella, and those are the only two votes on the board.

Why do you want Nutella kicked out of the tribe, DH?

Darn it I wanna vote Dom today.

I don't want Nutella kicked out of the tribe.

[speedchuck]

You can click the links to get the context. Here are the posts that demonstrate my suspicions. I may be biased in some of these, but I want others to click on these links, look at the context, and tell me what they think of Dom.

I dunno, though. I get a little leery when people pressure a person, vote them, push them, and then complain when they defend themselves.
You also posted an absurd absolute there.
I have posted a lot of mechanics and a moderate amount of self-defense. I have also posted reads, both as a group and in response to others. Some of those reads have my reasoning behind them. Based on the posts in this game, where I stand on everyone in the game is more clear than anyone else's stand. Except DH.

dom - Dom has actually been doing pretty well today, aside from a couple of quibbles I have with his approach to me. I had no read on him going into today. For a while it seemed like he was engaging me, but now I feel more like he's making sure I stay down, burdened with this scumread stuff. Dunno. Nature of the oppressed, my read is biased. After reading the others, I'm happy to leave him alone.

Dom has seemed towny to me all day. But his vote on me is bad. Bad, bad, bad.

#1. It's in a good pace to solidify the train. The 4th vote on a train is what takes it from viable to contender. It also doesn't carry as much heat as some of the other places.
#2. It is a reversal of the direction Dom's thought process was going in. He goes from 'liking my substance' to 'agreed' that I have no content in like, 12 hours while I was gone.
#3. Opportunistic

"Disgusting."

Dom has seemed towny to me all day. But his vote on me is bad. Bad, bad, bad.

#1. It's in a good pace to solidify the train. The 4th vote on a train is what takes it from viable to contender. It also doesn't carry as much heat as some of the other places.
#2. It is a reversal of the direction Dom's thought process was going in. He goes from 'liking my substance' to 'agreed' that I have no content in like, 12 hours while I was gone.
#3. Opportunistic

"Disgusting."

Compare this to your vote(s) for me where you gave no reason.

I like you made some progress in this. I do.
That doesn't undercut everything else about you.

This post is shitty af tho.

I liked like two of your posts out of three pages.

You're upset that buddying up to me didn't help you.

Nah. My post is fine. You being condescending about it isn't. You belittle it because you need something to help support your argument against it. I don't know how anyone could look at the last ten-fifteen posts of your ISO and think "Yeah, that makes sense, I see that thought progression and that vote on speedchuck definitely wasn't influenced by his train gaining prominence."

There is literally nothing to justify your turnabout in momentum. You went from "Yeah, I'll hear this guy out, what do you think DH?" to "I agree, he sucks, let's vote him" without ANY new information being added except for an OMGUS vote from DDL.

Speedchuck became very cold with me when I didn't vote the way he wanted.

Weird.

As bad as that post was, you could still be town. I find it impossible to read a wall of constant sarcastic needling without some form of bias.

But really, today reads more like DH stole your forum password than you coming to this conclusion genuinely.

And one from him I haven't commented on, where he makes a statement that continues his case and ignored being called out on his logic.

Where she has taken a stance though, bothers me.

It always ties herself to Epi.

If nutella is bad, then how would this make you feel about Epi?

very not good.

If you are scum, do you tie yourself to a teammate or to a misguided townie? I think if nutella is scum, then Epi is still town.

Baddies do both.

[speedchuck]

I'd currently lynch Long Con over Nutella, and those are the only two votes on the board.

Why do you want Nutella kicked out of the tribe, DH?

Darn it I wanna vote Dom today.

Why do you want to lynch me?

I don't, not really. But you have two lives, Nutella has one. And she's already been unfairly lynched once.
Then again, you might not have two lives. And alignments can change when the roles do.

Well, nutella and I aren't the only two people on the poll.

True.

I haven't voted for you.

[speedchuck]

I'd currently lynch Long Con over Nutella, and those are the only two votes on the board.

Why do you want Nutella kicked out of the tribe, DH?

Darn it I wanna vote Dom today.

I don't want Nutella kicked out of the tribe.

Then why are you voting for her? She died once already.

[S~V~S]

Chuck, why are you building a case on someone we can't lunch?

[DharmaHelper]

I'd currently lynch Long Con over Nutella, and those are the only two votes on the board.

Why do you want Nutella kicked out of the tribe, DH?

Darn it I wanna vote Dom today.

I don't want Nutella kicked out of the tribe.

Then why are you voting for her? She died once already.

I'm not voting for her. I voted for her already, the poll didn't change over.

[speedchuck]

Chuck, why are you building a case on someone we can't lunch?

I was asked. Can't please you people.

[colonialbob]

I'd currently lynch Long Con over Nutella, and those are the only two votes on the board.

Why do you want Nutella kicked out of the tribe, DH?

Darn it I wanna vote Dom today.

I don't like this post. Why tunnel in on LC and Nutella when they both just have 1 vote and nobody else has voted yet? I see no good reason to restrict yourself. And then saying you want to lynch the guy who's conveniently not an option, instead of the person you just talked about not being in a good place?